[00:43] <knome> ScottL, you around?
[00:52] <knome> apparently not. what a waste of freenode server bandwidth
[00:52] <knome> ;)
[00:59] <ScottL> knome, i'm here, but eating dinner, i'll be back in 5-10 minutes
[01:00] <knome> okay
[01:07] <ScottL> knome, i'm back
[01:07] <knome> okay
[01:07] <knome> i could work a bit with the website
[01:07] <ScottL> oh, good :)
[01:07] <knome> can you point me to the things that is maybe blocking or irritating you the most at the moment?
[01:08] <ScottL> two large points about the front page
[01:08] <ScottL> 1. links in the nav bar to other pages being completed/updated
[01:08] <knome> you can add those yourself, but you can also tell me where to link
[01:08] <knome> or, you should be able..
[01:09] <ScottL> 2. getting the "download" and "feature tour" buttons on the right side of the "slide show" text area
[01:09] <ScottL> knome, i thought i looked at adding the pages but i was unsure how the make the new pages
[01:09] <ScottL> like the contributor's blog page
[01:09] <knome> if you look at the "audio" tab, there is artwork in the right side
[01:09] <knome> should that be removed?
[01:09] <knome> i mean, if you have the download links there, they would interfere
[01:10] <knome> or should we only change the front front page to have the links there?
[01:10] <ScottL> i wouldn't remove the artwork, but can we just stop the artwork before the right side of the page?
[01:10] <knome> eg. keep the rest of the pages intact, but edit the frontpage tab
[01:10] <ScottL> just enough to fit the buttons
[01:10] <ScottL> hmmmm
[01:10] <knome> i doubt it'd look good if you hide it any more
[01:11] <ScottL> "hide it anymore"  i'm not sure i understand
[01:11] <knome> i mean
[01:11] <ScottL> oh, you mean the download link
[01:11] <knome> well i'm suggesting that we do what you proposed in the wiki for the frontpage
[01:12] <knome> but keep the rest of the tabs intact
[01:12] <knome> with space on the right side
[01:12] <ScottL> oh, that sounds good then :)
[01:12] <knome> does that sound sensible?
[01:12] <knome> okay, good
[01:13] <ScottL> i think in the spec that i even included a "download" link in the navbar as well
[01:13] <ScottL> to avoid "hiding" the link (even though there is a big button there)
[01:13] <ScottL> the buttons are an attempt to address two of the three main use cases 
[01:13] <knome> isn't there a download link in the navbar now? ;)
[01:13] <ScottL> 1. people just wanting to download the latest iso
[01:13] <ScottL> 2. people unfamiliar with ubuntu studio/linux to learn
[01:14] <knome> so what's the thing with developer blogs?
[01:14] <ScottL> 3. experienced users who want to contribute to ubuntu studio
[01:14] <knome> is it just a different category in the blog, or is it aggregated?
[01:14] <ScottL> knome, i see that the "blog" is a point of confusion for multiple people ;)
[01:14] <ScottL> not aggregated
[01:14] <knome> okay
[01:14] <ScottL> and not "news" which is more formalized and for announcements
[01:15] <knome> right
[01:15] <knome> so "news" and "dev blog" should just show different categories from the blog?
[01:15] <ScottL> the "blog" would be highly informal, and be musings on current development by various people
[01:15] <knome> yeah, but technically speaking
[01:16] <knome> http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/category/development/ <- this should be "blog" ?
[01:16] <knome> http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/category/release-notes/ <- and this "news" ?
[01:17] <ScottL> knome, i'm unfamiliar with some of the nuances in wordpress (and drupal for that matter)
[01:18] <ScottL> i had originally thought about having the blogs and news all together in a single page but don't think that is a good idea
[01:18] <knome> let me try to rephrase it in a non-technical as-possible matter
[01:18] <ScottL> as some might not really want the rss feed from the blog
[01:18] <ScottL> so i was thinking that two separate pages which solely show their own content
[01:18] <knome> the "News" page should show all articles in the "News" category
[01:18] <ScottL> aye
[01:18] <knome> and the "Designer blog" from "Blog" category
[01:18] <ScottL> aye
[01:18] <knome> okay
[01:19] <ScottL> does that make it simpler?
[01:19] <knome> a bit harder than current way, but it is still relatively trivial
[01:19] <knome> we need to do some hardcoding with that though
[01:20] <ScottL> how does the current way implement this?
[01:20] <ScottL> all in a single page?
[01:20] <knome> it just shows the "article front page"
[01:20] <knome> yeah
[01:20] <knome> we're going to mix news and blog in the xubuntu site
[01:21] <knome> see: http://wp.xubuntu.org/
[01:21] <knome> "Latest news" is really just "Latest articles"
[01:21] <knome> you can still subscribe to news-only rss
[01:21] <knome> but in the xubuntu site, that's hidden by default (at least for now)
[01:22] <ScottL> stochastci wanted a less "wall of text" resulting from news on the front page and i agreed after i thought about it
[01:22] <knome> but that's easy to link to
[01:22] <ScottL> it begets a much more simpler and perhaps zen-like front page
[01:22] <ScottL> very accessible
[01:23] <knome> the front page does not have articles from news right now
[01:23] <knome> only the front page content
[01:23] <knome> can we go through the links you want in the main navi one by one?
[01:23] <ScottL> sure
[01:24] <knome> i can create/fix them as we speak
[01:24] <ScottL> let me pull up the spec
[01:24] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/update-website-spec
[01:24] <knome> there you go
[01:24] <ScottL> hehe, you bet me
[01:24] <ScottL> beat
[01:25] <knome> well i had that open...
[01:25] <ScottL> home, news, (contributor's) blog, download, tutorials (aka wiki), support, contribute (to development), feedback 
[01:25] <ScottL> i think that is pretty comprehensive, but please ignore the words inside the parenthesis
[01:26] <knome> mm
[01:27] <knome> where should feedback link to?
[01:28] <ScottL> is there a feedback form that can be used?
[01:28] <ScottL> so it emails the -dev mailing list
[01:28] <knome> humm
[01:28] <ScottL> great way for people to suggest changes or new packages to consider
[01:28] <knome> one should create such, but i'm not sure if it's a good thing to enable a webform that sends directly to ML
[01:30] <ScottL> do you have a suggestion on how we might provide a vector for users to make suggestions?
[01:30] <knome> i'd say tell the users on the support page that you can give suggestions too
[01:31] <knome> maybe the pagename could be "Support and Feedback"
[01:31] <ScottL> good idea
[01:31] <ScottL> we can "divide" the page vertically and the bottom for feedback
[01:31] <knome> okay, the menu should be okay now
[01:31] <knome> can you check that?
[01:32] <ScottL> cool, i'll check now
[01:32] <knome> (note that the news/blog links won't work as expected yet)
[01:32] <ScottL> is it accessible to change the "designer blog" to simply "blog" ?
[01:32] <knome> sure
[01:32] <knome> done
[01:33] <ScottL> this is a hard thing to tackle, the naming of it
[01:33] <knome> you can always change it later
[01:33] <ScottL> we're really not developers (i had thought first to call it developer blog)
[01:33] <knome> team blog
[01:33] <ScottL> hmmm, or development blog
[01:33] <knome> or contributor blog
[01:33] <ScottL> i'll think more on it and i think i can change it from what i know and have seen
[01:33] <knome> or just blog
[01:33] <knome> ;]
[01:34] <ScottL> probably just go with blog, leave it a mystery that draws readers into looking at the page to understand why it differs from news
[01:34] <ScottL> ;)
[01:34] <knome> so what's with the idea to put the logo in the navbar?
[01:34] <knome> won't fit with the current nav items...
[01:34] <ScottL> disregard that please
[01:34] <knome> hehe, sure :)
[01:35] <ScottL> that was when i was compulsive about minimizing vertical space
[01:35] <knome> so, the article styling
[01:35] <knome> so you want to go with the style in the spec?
[01:35] <ScottL> for the news/blog page?
[01:35] <knome> yeah
[01:35] <ScottL> oh, i don't care really, i just made that based off of another blog, i think default is probably just fine
[01:35] <knome> okay
[01:35] <knome> i'll make the metadata a bit more colorful
[01:36] <knome> did you want excerpts for the "many posts" pages? (like the news-page)
[01:36] <ScottL> knome, i just want to thank you again for the work you are doing, it's just bloody amazing :-)
[01:36] <knome> no problem ;)
[01:36] <ScottL> what is the "many posts" page?
[01:36] <knome> click news
[01:37] <knome> any page that shows more than one post per page
[01:37] <ScottL> is this where it makes the posts two or three lines link and then says "click here for more"?
[01:37] <knome> yes, do you want that?
[01:37] <ScottL> s/link/long
[01:37] <ScottL> sure
[01:37] <knome> omay
[01:37] <knome> err, *okay
[01:38] <knome> should "News" or "Blog" be the default category when posting?
[01:38] <ScottL> i think so
[01:39] <knome> "news or blog" -> "yes" :?
[01:39] <ScottL> yes
[01:39] <knome> it's either news or blog, it can't be "yes" ? :D
[01:40] <ScottL> sorry, i misunderstood the question
[01:40] <knome> hehe
[01:40] <knome> np...
[01:40] <ScottL> probably news
[01:40] <knome> okay
[01:40] <ScottL> how difficult will it be to create the "feature tour" pages using documents and text?
[01:41] <ScottL> can images be placed pretty freely in the page?
[01:41] <knome> yeah
[01:41] <ScottL> oh cool :)
[01:41] <knome> with wordpress, you can align to left/right/center by default
[01:41] <ScottL> that will make it much easier to develop these
[01:41] <knome> there should be initial styles for those already too
[01:41] <knome> heh, yeah
[01:41] <knome> http://wp.xubuntu.org/about/
[01:41] <knome> that's right-aligned :)
[01:43] <ScottL> i see :)
[01:44] <ScottL> i remember seeing something on planet ubuntu where some guy made something like five pages as a feature tour for kubuntu
[01:44] <ScottL> i thought it looks brilliant!  with images that faded out next to the text
[01:44] <ScottL> alternating image positioning    left, then right, then left
[01:44] <knome> mm-hmm
[01:44] <ScottL> the text weaving through it
[01:45] <ScottL> it looked really good
[01:45] <ScottL> i could never find that post or those pages again :(
[01:45] <knome> aweh
[01:45] <ScottL> now i email myself links to anything that i think might help with styling
[01:45] <ScottL> i have a label (folder) in my gmail account for artwork stuff
[01:46] <ScottL> i'll be back in about five minutes
[01:46] <knome> sure
[01:51] <knome> okay, the news/blog links work now as wanted
[01:52] <knome> they will show any articles in those categories, or any subcategories
[01:52] <knome> see Posts -> Categories in admin
[01:53] <knome> i already moved "known issues" and "release notes" under "news"
[01:53] <knome> you can even create a subcategory in "blog" for every contributor
[01:53] <knome> then it's easy to track them separately if wanted
[01:59] <ScottL> cool, i'll look at it in a minute, working with son right now
[01:59] <ScottL> knome, oh, good idea for the "blog" subcategories :)
[02:00] <ScottL> oh, the question you had about the buttons on the right side of the "slide show" about just on the front page but not the other pages
[02:00] <ScottL> i think i understand it now
[02:01] <ScottL> you were asking if the buttons were to be hidden on all the slide show pages, weren't you knome ?
[02:01] <ScottL> except the first page
[02:06] <knome> yes
[02:07] <knome> if you want to show them on all pages, that's not a problem either, but then i'd say we will have to drop the artwork from the background completely
[02:08] <ScottL> oh :(
[02:08] <knome> well, it's just conflicting too much
[02:08] <ScottL> it would be nice if we could parse the right side of that "slide show" just like the section below it
[02:08] <ScottL> and not have the artwork cross over to the right side section
[02:09] <knome> what do you mean by parsing? :)
[02:09] <knome> right...
[02:09] <knome> there is still the problem
[02:09] <knome> the artwork will interfere with the text on the left side then
[02:10] <ScottL> ah, i see, you faded the image on the right
[02:10] <ScottL> err, left
[02:10] <knome> yes
[02:10] <ScottL> hmmm, let me think about this a bit, i'll try to have an answer in a few days
[02:10] <knome> no problem
[02:11] <knome> is there something else you'd like me to work on now? :)
[02:21] <ScottL> can you start the "feature tour" page and make a link to them
[02:22] <ScottL> even if it isn't the "right" link for now, can be in the nav bar if that is easiest
[02:22] <knome> in the frontpage?
[02:22] <ScottL> sure
[02:23] <knome> something like this?
[02:23] <ScottL> and it might be best if you were to make five pages and just left me navigate to them and change the content if it isn't too much trouble
[02:23] <ScottL> that link works just fine :)
[02:23] <knome> hmm.
[02:24] <knome> will you have specific topics for each of the pages?
[02:24] <knome> i'd suggest creating /tour for the frontpage of tour
[02:24] <knome> then
[02:24] <knome> pages /tour/applications etc. as subpages, which you could link as "next" pages
[02:24] <ScottL> the idea was to use the front page slide show to show use cases with topical information
[02:25] <ScottL> then use the tour to really get technical for those use cases
[02:25] <knome> right
[02:25] <knome> so should the link to tour be different for each tab?
[02:25] <ScottL> mention "unlimited tracks for ardour" and "200+ plugins" and "jackd is hyper-lowlatency" blah
[02:25] <ScottL> no, i don't think so
[02:25] <knome> okay
[02:25] <ScottL> ultimately i just want a single button to start the tour
[02:25] <knome> yeah
[02:26] <knome> do you think the subpages idea would work?
[02:26] <knome> as said, you can make the pages look like you were scrolling through a single tour with many pages
[02:27] <ScottL> how is the "subpages" different from other pages?
[02:27] <ScottL> is that like the "slide show" on the front page
[02:27] <knome> no
[02:28] <knome> it's semantically correct, it affects the urls
[02:28] <knome> like
[02:28] <knome> http://us.org/tour/movies
[02:28] <knome> rather than
[02:28] <knome> http://us.org/tour-movies
[02:28] <ScottL> oh, yeah, i like that a lot :)
[02:28] <ScottL> yes, please
[02:29] <knome> done
[02:29] <ScottL> is it easy to create the buttons like the "download" button?  do you think i can do it on the download page itself for direct links to latest image by copying what is on the front page?
[02:29] <knome> you just copy the markup
[02:30] <knome> i could create a simple shortcode
[02:30] <ScottL> outstanding
[02:30] <knome> which would be easier to use
[02:30] <ScottL> i think i can copy the markup easily
[02:30] <knome> eg. [linkbutton url=http://url/ title=Title]
[02:30] <knome> that would also make maintenance easier
[02:30] <ScottL> it's okay, i can copy the markup, my concern was that it would be accessible
[02:31] <knome> it will
[02:31] <ScottL> either way is fine, if there are advantages to shortcode then that is good too
[02:31] <knome> yeah, maintenance
[02:31] <knome> eg. if you suddenly want to change the style
[02:31] <ScottL> which ever is easiest for you or better for the site
[02:31] <knome> i can create the shortcode
[02:31] <knome> just a sec
[02:32] <ScottL> as long as the code is on the front page and i can get to it then i can use whatever you provide
[02:32] <knome> yup
[02:33] <knome> don't worry, i'm an expert ;)
[02:33] <ScottL> i don't want you to hash through making the buttons on the download page because it will be tedious and i will need to play with the layout design of the page to put things in the "right" place to be friendly and easy
[02:34] <knome> yeah. that's another reason why it's easy to use the shortcode
[02:34] <knome> it's cleaner markup too
[02:36] <ScottL> wife and daughter are getting over being sick and now i'm starting to feel bad :(
[02:36] <knome> :/
[02:36] <ScottL> i've felt it coming on since this morning
[02:37] <ScottL> helping son again for fifteen minutes or so
[02:38] <knome> yup
[02:38] <knome> i'll hack the shortcode
[03:06] <knome> ok, the shortcode is set
[03:07] <knome> usage:
[03:07] <knome> [lb url="tour/"]Link title[/lb]
[03:18] <knome> i need to go to bed
[03:18] <knome> see you tomorrow
[03:20] <ScottL> thank you very much :)
[06:30] <len_> ran rteval for 3 runs, sent results to email listed earlier. It appears it likes a little more memory than I have.
[06:31] <len_> I did try booting to runlevel 1 or recovery, but then I got other errors.
[06:32] <len_> I have 1G and it seems even with just lightdm running there is less than half left.
[15:59] <l33> hi
[16:05] <scott-work>  hi l33 
[16:06] <l33> hi scott-work :)
[22:01] <scott-upstairs> micahg, i am working on removing 'dssi-vst' from ubuntustudio seeds
[22:01] <scott-upstairs> i have removed dssi-vst from the audio-plugins seed
[22:02] <micahg> scott-upstairs: I saw your bug :)
[22:02] <scott-upstairs> should i just commit to bzr and stop
[22:02] <micahg> scott-upstairs: I can do a meta upload for you later in the week
[22:02] <scott-upstairs> micahg, okay, i had instructions from persia to do more:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#Update_ubuntustudio-meta
[22:02] <micahg> scott-upstairs: yeah, you can mention the bug in the bzr commit so that the branch is linked, then set to fix committed
[22:03] <scott-upstairs> this are older instructions for when i had originally worked on the seeds, but these were specific to getting the -meta updated
[22:03] <scott-upstairs> but i can certainly stop here and mention the bug
[22:06] <scott-upstairs> micahg, you want i should subscribe ubuntu-sponsor?
[22:07] <micahg> unless you need it sooner than sometime before alpha 1, no need, I can take care of it for you
[22:08] <micahg> wait, unless there's another one already there in which case, it would make sense to get this one on the same list
[22:08] <scott-upstairs> micahg, this may be preventing an installable image for amd64, isn't it?
[22:09] <micahg> yeah, probably, go ahead an add sponsors and I'll try to grab it if I have time
[22:13] <scott-upstairs> will do, thank you