[09:57] <ochosi> morning everyone
[10:11] <madnick> morning ochosi 
[10:11] <ochosi> hey nick
[10:11] <ochosi> what up? :)
[10:13] <madnick> Not much, just had lunch :) 
[10:13] <madnick> now it's time to do some work ;)
[10:13] <ochosi> righty :)
[10:13] <ochosi> where are you at?
[10:14] <ochosi> i mean work-wise
[10:14] <madnick> Well, I need to setup a configuration system for the configuration GUI (to not hardcode paths)
[10:14] <madnick> And then I need to implement the CSS for the greeter
[10:15] <madnick> Because I have implemented all functionallity needed for our theme (but I will also implement all of it) :P
[10:15] <madnick> But for the draft its enough :P
[10:20] <ochosi> ok cool :)
[10:20] <ochosi> have to talked to xfce-devs about the configuration system (xfconf) yet?
[10:23] <madnick> nope
[10:23] <madnick> i will do that today
[10:24] <ochosi> yeah, think that'd be a good starting-point
[10:42] <mr_pouit> madnick: remember that the greeter isn't run by the same user who configures it :>
[10:45] <mr_pouit> (so I think a config file in /etc/lightdm + xfce_rc_* from libxfce4util will be simpler than xfconf)
[10:47] <ochosi> madnick: mr_pouit just eradicated the need to talk to xfce-devs about xfconf ;)
[10:48] <madnick> mr_pouit: thanks :)
[10:52] <madnick> mr_pouit: I must ask you in that case, since that would be using a file directly, wouldn't a GKeyFile be just as good? (thats what LightDM itself uses)
[10:53] <mr_pouit> of course
[10:53] <madnick> okay, thanks :)
[11:05] <madnick> ochosi: how can i find out the size of a selection in gimp?
[11:09] <ochosi> madnick: in the toolbox there's a "position" and "size" section for the rectangle when it's selected
[11:10] <ochosi> you should also be able to modify the values from there if you know how what size the rectangle should be
[11:11] <madnick> doesnt seem to work for stuff i did not select myself :P
[11:12] <madnick> gimp always makes me *madder*nick :)
[11:13] <ochosi> :)
[11:13] <ochosi> what do you mean, stuff you didn't select yourself?
[11:13] <madnick> well, i tried to steal some stuff from your xcf
[11:13] <madnick> and those are selections when i mark them
[11:13] <madnick> but i dont get the size
[11:15] <ochosi> are you sure they're selections?
[11:15] <madnick> no :P
[11:15] <ochosi> i think you might be mixing them up with layer-boundaries
[11:15] <ochosi> selections are lost (almost) as soon as you use another tool
[11:16] <madnick> hah! I can press "scale layer" and get the size ;)
[11:16] <ochosi> yup, what you want is the layer-size :)
[11:30] <ochosi> k, off for lunch, see you later!
[11:30] <madnick> cya
[16:06] <scott-work> micahg: can we start working on the sync from debian stuff later this week?
[16:06] <scott-work> i have stuff that i want to get done, some things are taking longer that i hoped, and the end of this week is a US holiday so i'll be more available
[16:17] <ochosi> scott-work: iirc you said you have to use a different/modified version of greybird for studio..?
[16:17] <micahg> scott-work: sure, but there's not much to do ATM
[16:17] <ochosi> and iirc you said you mostly want to change the panels. just wanted to note that you don't have to change the theme to ship a different panel layout
[16:18] <micahg> scott-work: err, next week is better :)
[16:19] <micahg> for me at least, alpha freeze will be next week as well, but stuff can be prepared in advance of the alpha1 release to be uploaded upon it's release
[16:19] <micahg> s/it's/its/
[16:26] <scott-work> micahg: next week would be even better for me :)
[16:27] <scott-work> ochosi: it looks like i will be evaluating xubuntu/ubuntustudio themes, UI, etc this week
[16:27] <scott-work> i want to understand where the packages are between the two first, then start looking at what we want to change
[16:27] <scott-work> ochosi: here's my loose plan though
[16:27] <ochosi> mhm
[16:27] <scott-work> 1. get ubuntu studio moved over to the greybird theme first, making any small changes that are already known
[16:27] <scott-work> 2. evaulate
[16:28] <scott-work> 3. then make other changes as necessary
[16:28] <scott-work> simple, right?  :)
[16:28] <scott-work> there's a maxim i'm trying to incorporate "don't let perfect stand in the way of better"
[16:29] <ochosi> sounds good
[16:34] <scott-work> ochosi:  in which package or source is the greybird theme for xubuntu?
[16:34]  * scott-work thinks that many things in xubuntu are included in xubuntu-artwork
[16:37] <ochosi> scott-work: it's in murrine-themes
[16:38] <scott-work> i think there are two main obstacles for me in this process
[16:38] <scott-work> 1. my incomplete understanding of exactly how everything is set
[16:38] <scott-work> 2. the deltas between ubuntu studio and xubuntu on how things are packaged
[16:39] <scott-work> #1 i can work through in each instance
[16:39] <scott-work> but #2 is something i think i need to wrap my head around first to make any significant and correct progress
[16:40] <scott-work> which is what i hope to do this week
[16:41] <ochosi> right, unfortunately i'll be little help in those areas
[16:42] <scott-work> ochosi: if you only provide oversight to make sure i'm not forgetting something largely important, for example not getting the xubuntu icon package, that would probably be more than enough help :)
[16:42] <ochosi> ok :)
[16:43] <scott-work> but i can't launch into something without getting some organizational or conceptual understanding first...
[16:43] <scott-work> so i'll be trying to grasp what all packages are required and hopefully get you to look at them
[16:43] <scott-work> then i can make the collation between the two sets
[16:52] <ochosi> scott-work: ok, i can give it a try :)
[17:06] <micahg> scott-work: I can help with #2, we'll try to keep diffs to a minimum if possibel
[17:08] <scott-work> micahg: i agree with reducing the delta and this might mean that ubuntu studio might drop a package or two
[17:08] <scott-work> because it will be rolled into another package
[17:08] <micahg> scott-work: huh?  no, seeds can be different, I was talking about in-package diffs
[17:10] <scott-work> micahg: studio has ubuntustudio-sounds but there isn't a xubuntu-sounds package
[17:10] <scott-work> i don't currently know that xubuntu has specific sounds or not
[17:11] <micahg> I don't think we do
[17:11] <scott-work> my general feeling is that the xubuntu-artwork package creates several binaries that are split out into several packages in studio
[17:11] <scott-work> but i could be wrong though
[17:11] <micahg> there's nothing wrong with that though
[17:12] <scott-work> oh, no...not saying anything is wrong, just different implementations that will need to be reconciled
[17:12] <micahg> nope, not necessarily
[17:12] <micahg> you're free to do it different in this case
[17:12] <micahg> whichever is easier for you
[17:13] <scott-work> i would think sustainability would be to move to the xubuntu paradigm and minimize the delta as we discussed :)
[17:14] <scott-work> micahg: would it be problematic or possible to basically make ubuntustudio-foo simply depend on xubuntu-foo and then also include any delta in the package?
[17:14] <micahg> right, that's not delta IMHO
[17:14] <micahg> ok, I see what you're saying
[17:15] <micahg> you could still do that with it broken out
[17:15] <micahg> but if you have minimal content on your side, consolidation could make sense into a single source 
[17:20] <scott-work> micahg: let me get my head around what is in xubuntu and where and then likewise with ubuntu studio and we can then discuss the perferable options
[17:20] <micahg> ok
[21:00]  * micahg waves
[21:01] <micahg> knome: meeting?
[21:05] <madnick> micahg: 21 utc
[21:05] <micahg> madnick: that's now :)
[21:06] <madnick> oh, you are right, i was thinking +1 hour from now :P
[21:12] <knome> ugh.
[21:12] <knome> who all is here?
[21:12] <beardygnome> we not having this meeting?
[21:12] <beardygnome> o/
[21:12] <knome> i forgot.
[21:12] <Unit193> Well, I was about to leave, but I can stick around...
[21:12] <knome> can we just postpone to next week?
[21:13] <knome> there is nothing too important
[21:13] <knome> we can sort all out by email
[21:13] <Unit193> Well, what is?
[21:13] <micahg> knome: well, review of the roadmap was scheduled, you should either announce an extension or just a delay in reviewing, but let people know when that will be
[21:13] <knome> micahg, there is nothing to review really
[21:13] <micahg> knome: which apps should be chosen is a big thing :)
[21:14] <knome> micahg, we're not going to review *those*
[21:14] <knome> micahg, just "it's okay, you can start comparing apps"
[21:14] <micahg> knome: when will that review happen?
[21:15]  * micahg was under the impression that would happen today
[21:15] <knome> micahg, well, featuredefinitionfreeze is on thursday...
[21:15] <knome> there's no app comparisons ready
[21:15] <knome> we will keep ristretto as default
[21:15] <knome> i had the impression that wasn't the default
[21:15] <knome> but it is
[21:15] <knome> so no need to change that
[21:15] <micahg> right, gthumb was made available
[21:15] <knome> yeah.
[21:16] <knome> i also thought it was set as default
[21:16] <knome> gridcube is working with the media player comparison
[21:16] <knome> but he doesn't seem to be online
[21:16] <knome> and the comparison is far from ready
[21:17] <knome> and tbh, none of the items are something we really need to review
[21:18] <knome> and those that need community discussion, are still in the drafting phase
[21:18] <knome> like "new default shortcuts"
[21:18] <knome> doesn't have to happen before featuredefinitionfreeze
[21:18] <knome> so did everybody disappear ? :P
[21:19] <Unit193> Yeppers
[21:19] <knome> hmm.
[21:19] <micahg> I'm fine with the current set of apps...
[21:19] <knome> let's go through the items super-quickly
[21:19] <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
[21:19] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Nov 21 21:19:41 2011 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[21:19] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[21:19] <Unit193> madnick
[21:19] <knome> #title Xubuntu brainstorming week has ended
[21:20] <knome> errm
[21:20] <knome> #topic Xubuntu brainstorming week has ended
[21:20] <knome> #subtopic Review roadmap for Xubuntu 12.04
[21:20] <knome> anybody has objections about any of the items?
[21:20] <knome> #info Roadmap is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/
[21:21] <knome> (brb)
[21:29] <knome> #info You have until end of November to take items that do not have assignee yet. Specifications for application comparisons should also be ready by end of November, ready for discussion.
[21:30] <knome> #action knome will send en email to the mailing list asking for possible counterarguments (with a deadline) about roadmap items.
[21:30] <meetingology> ACTION: knome will send en email to the mailing list asking for possible counterarguments (with a deadline) about roadmap items.
[21:32] <knome> #topic Ubuntu 5-year release schedule for LTS
[21:32] <knome> #info Carried to next meeting.
[21:32] <knome> #topic Maintaining official/recognized derivative/flavor status.
[21:32] <knome> #action knome to talk with skaet
[21:32] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to talk with skaet
[21:32] <knome> #topic Meeting times
[21:32] <knome> #info Carried to next meeting.
[21:32] <knome> #topic Team updates
[21:32] <knome> any updates, anyone?
[21:33] <micahg> mr_pouit did a few updates
[21:34] <micahg> #info mr_pouit updated a few packages
[21:34] <micahg> #info ristretto 0.3.0 is now in precise
[21:34] <micahg> ..
[21:34] <knome> oki
[21:34] <knome> any other updates?
[21:34] <micahg> #info gmusicbrowser 1.1.8 should be coming after alpha 1
[21:34] <knome> :o
[21:36] <knome> madnick, ?
[21:37] <knome> okay...
[21:37] <knome> #topic Announcements
[21:37] <knome> #info No announcements.
[21:37] <knome> #topic Other business
[21:38] <knome> #info Project leader changes will be executed per https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-November/008042.html, since no counterarguments rose, and no other nominations for the website leader were made.
[21:38] <knome> #endmeeting
[21:38] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Nov 21 21:38:08 2011 UTC.  
[21:38] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2011/xubuntu-devel.2011-11-21-21.19.moin.txt
[21:38] <knome> tattadaa
[21:39] <micahg> thanks knome
[21:39] <knome> np micahg 
[21:39] <knome> and sorry for forgetting
[21:39] <knome> :/
[21:39] <knome> i knew today would be a bad day
[21:39] <knome> but didn't want to cancel the meeting
[21:39] <pleia2> our website sprint went well I think :)
[21:39] <knome> but apparently i should've
[21:39] <knome> yeah.
[21:39] <knome> pleia2, forgot that ;]
[21:39]  * micahg thinks it's important that we decide on meeting times so people can add calendar entries
[21:39] <knome> yeah.
[21:40] <knome> i don't think we *really* need one meeting per week
[21:41] <micahg> possibly close to feature freeze to make sure we stay on track
[21:41] <micahg> but right now, we probably don't
[21:41] <beardygnome> knome: what frequency do you think we should have?
[21:41] <micahg> we should have one next sunday though to discuss alpha 1 if we're having an image
[21:42] <knome> beardygnome, maybe once per two weeks
[21:43] <knome> micahg, yeah, agreed that once per week makes sense before important freezes
[21:43] <ochosi> knome: sry i couldn't attend the meeting
[21:43] <knome> hah np
[21:43] <knome> the "meeting"
[21:43] <knome> ;)
[21:44] <ochosi> yeah, just read the backlog :D
[21:44] <ochosi> honestly i don't have many updates anyway
[21:44] <mr_pouit> grrmbl /o\
[21:44] <ochosi> and you know about most of them
[21:44] <knome> hahah
[21:44] <knome> i just can't remember...
[21:44] <mr_pouit> (sorry for not being here for the meeting)
[21:45] <knome> if people want to add items for the team updates, we can add them now
[21:45] <knome> err
[21:45] <knome> hahah
[21:45] <knome> "project leader changes"
[21:45] <knome> sounds good
[21:45] <knome> that's true but it sounds a bit wrong...
[21:46] <beardygnome> right guys, i'm off.  will keep an eye on the ml for the next meeting time
[21:51] <knome> anybody want to add team updates?
[21:51] <knome> ochosi, ? madnick, ?
[21:52] <knome> i'll update the team report, so if there are things done, i'd like to get them in
[21:52] <ochosi> well the greeter is in progress and the settings UI for lightdm is finalized
[21:53] <ochosi> and bluebird gtk3 is in progress
[21:53] <ochosi> but didn't get very far up to now
[21:55] <knome> pleia2, ACTION: pleia2 to send email about next sprint time 
[21:56] <pleia2> :)
[21:57] <knome> team updates added to this months reports 
[22:00] <ochosi> odd, nm-applet doesn't seem to work anymore here
[22:00] <ochosi> at least i can't see it in the indicator area
[22:00] <micahg> mr_pouit: BTW, abiword has been orphaned, do you want to adopt w/me?
[22:01] <micahg> someone else already said they'd help also in debian bug 648341
[22:01] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap
[22:02] <knome> there is * in the assignee field for items that need community approval before committing changes to repositories
[22:02] <knome> do you think any other one should have that?
[22:09] <mr_pouit> micahg: I don't use it at all (I only open and close it when I test daily lives, or to check that greybird looks nice everywhere ;-)
[22:09] <micahg> I don't use it either :(
[22:10] <micahg> was just thinking since it's seeded for us that we might want to maintain in Debian
[22:10] <micahg> otherwise, w/out a proper maintainer, maybe we should look for another word processor
[22:12] <mr_pouit> yeah :/ (I maintained in Debian some packages I didn't even use a few years ago, and it wasn't my smartest move -- like, orphaning them after six months…)
[22:12] <mr_pouit> maybe we could consider libreoffice…
[22:13] <micahg> we don't have 60MB, we'd have to drop something like GIMP...
[22:13] <micahg> or all the langpacks
[22:14] <mr_pouit> well, if the "new" maintainer in 648341 wants to set up a team, I can help though
[22:18] <mr_pouit> (since I guess we want to keep gimp & langpacks:p)
[22:34] <knome> boo
[22:34] <knome> the wiki is slow
[22:35] <knome> mr_pouit, i'm all for changing gimp to an easier to use app, as long as it has some core features...
[22:36] <knome> micahg, can you ask GridCube what he meant with that?
[22:36]  * micahg hopes he's subscribed to the ML and will reply :)
[22:37] <mr_pouit> Reintegrate the update manager to the notification area
[22:37] <mr_pouit> knome: ^
[22:38] <mr_pouit> you mean, instead of having update-manager that randomly pops up and takes focus?
[22:38] <micahg> only does that for me on unity...
[22:39] <mr_pouit> (if yes, then it's a consequence of the port to gsettings: we set a gconf key to ensure that, but I 'forgot' to migrate it to gsettings)
[22:39] <mr_pouit> only new oneiric installs are affected I think (older ones will have the gconf settings migrated automagically)
[22:40] <micahg> that would explain it for me :)
[22:40] <knome> lol, okay
[22:40] <knome> mr_pouit, will you just fix that anyway?
[22:41] <mr_pouit> you can assign it to me yeah, it's just a one line fix in xubuntu-default-settings
[22:41] <knome> mr_pouit, well, i'll just remove the irem
[22:41] <knome> *item
[22:42] <knome> mr_pouit, is there a bug for that?
[22:43] <mr_pouit> no (afaik)
[22:43] <knome> okay
[22:43] <mr_pouit> with gconf it was /apps/update-notifier/auto_launch, does anyone know what is it with gsettings now?
[22:44] <mr_pouit>  /com/ubuntu/update-notifier/auto-launch ?
[22:49] <mr_pouit> (committed in bzr for xubuntu-default-settings, should be part of the next upload -- when more changes are included)
[22:49] <knome> heh, thanks :)
[22:49] <knome> that's quick
[22:52] <mr_pouit> (now that I restored the old behavior) micahg has a point too
[22:53] <mr_pouit> if there's an indicator and it works fine, maybe we want it instead?
[22:53] <mr_pouit> (unless it's integrated in indicator-session, or anything specific like that)
[22:53] <micahg> we already have it :)
[22:53] <micahg> or at least I do on my oneiric machine
[22:55] <knome> hmm
[22:55] <knome> :)
[22:55] <knome> i don't know about that
[22:55] <knome> feel free to add a more fitting blueprint item