[00:05] <wendar> created a doodle poll to look for a time to catch up on ubuntu-design bits: http://www.doodle.com/tvvgx4ivru7s7hsx
[00:06] <wendar> (I put it as next week, because this week is already started, and a bit messy with a holiday in the US)
[02:06] <cjohnston> doctormon: im kind-of around
[08:03] <dholbach> good morning
[08:05] <thorwil> moin
[08:06]  * thorwil wonders if a doctormon is something like a pokemon or digimon
[08:40] <doctormon> thorwil: More like a mon
[08:41] <doctormon> Although I can't help reading thorwil as Thor's Will.
[08:41] <thorwil> heh, i approve of that :)
[08:42] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:42] <doctormon> hey AlanBell
[09:03] <AlanBell> still one place left for the London christmas dinner
[09:17] <doctormon> AlanBell: I still have my place there right?
[09:18] <AlanBell> you do indeed
[09:18] <AlanBell> there is still an opportunity for someone to sit next to the great doctormon
[09:19] <doctormon> AlanBell: There are canonical designers who I need to have lunch with anyway, have you gotten any of themt o come?
[09:20] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
[09:20] <AlanBell> they have been invited but I think popey is the only canonical employee on the list
[09:24] <mainerror> Friday, 9th December. That is my birthday.
[09:24] <mainerror> You guys just reminded me of it.
[09:25] <AlanBell> come to London for a special birthday treat \o/
[09:25] <mainerror> It's a bit too far for me otherwise I would join you for sure. :)
[09:27] <AlanBell> I was talking to that venue about doing a private event at lunchtime including an in the dark installfest
[09:27] <AlanBell> see if the desktop team can install their desktop on a blacked out computer
[09:35] <doctormon> AlanBell: Listing Popey as a canonical employee who is coming to your loco event is like listing Mark as a debian contributor. Technicallity.
[09:36] <mainerror> We have to get the wiki team introduction done.
[09:37] <mainerror> Oh wow, just realized that I don't have the Ubuntu design toolkit in the resources collection. Gotta fix that.
[09:39] <mainerror> Fixed.
[09:41] <doctormon> thansk mainerror, you've been really great with the resource page :-)
[11:21] <mainerror> This might be interesting for you as well. I'm already inscribed.http://www.hci-class.org/
[11:59] <doctormon> wendar, bkerensa, mainerror, AlanBell, cjohnston: http://imagebin.org/185133
[12:00] <doctormon> We now have a website project as shown in the screenshot https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-design-website
[12:00] <doctormon> there is lots of work to do, any and all help would be most welcome.
[12:04] <doctormon> thorwil: Do you have any ideas for what we should use for branding for the ubuntu design team?
[12:08] <thorwil> doctormon: cad-style drawing / blue-print of a U, maybe half-way filled
[12:09] <thorwil> though i would consider to have no symbol and not much of anything else
[12:10] <thorwil> the shape-less shapers
[12:13] <thorwil> hmm, a shape that, read from left to right, transforms from a blob into a geometric form
[12:57] <yaili> doctormon: hi
[12:59] <yaili> doctormon: where is this site going to live?
[13:09] <AlanBell> cross referencing the doodle poll so far and the people sabdfl wanted involved it would be good to find out when johnlea, mika, calum, mpt are available
[13:10] <AlanBell> I suspect the current popular choice of 5PM UK time might not be their preferred time
[13:29] <doctormon> hey yaili!
[13:29] <yaili> doctormon: hi
[13:29] <doctormon> thorwil: Yes, I tried a grid and thought about a part-construction.
[13:30] <doctormon> AlanBell: Unless it was at a pub?
[13:31] <AlanBell> dunno if we succeeded in dragging any of them out to the pub last time
[13:33] <AlanBell> next London pub meet is in Surbiton on the 8th December
[13:38] <yaili> doctormon: did you see my question?
[13:38] <doctormon> yaili: We don't have a site yet, when it's working, it'll maybe go to design.ubuntu.com
[13:40] <sladen> doctormon: I thought the vague idea was to move  design.canonical.com  over to  design.ubuntu.com and open up the access list to the wider Ubuntu Design community in the process
[13:41] <sladen> doctormon: is the  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-design-website  more for about making tools?
[13:41] <doctormon> sladen: Yes and that still might happen and work out well.
[13:41] <doctormon> the design.canonical.com is static and blog right now right?
[13:42] <sladen> AlanBell: people are generally in the office until ~18:00
[13:42] <sladen> doctormon: it's Wordpress.  Some separately mapped static content is mapped to  http://design.canonical.com/brand
[13:43] <doctormon> sladen: Sounds good
[13:43] <yaili> doctormon: would this have any parallel with http://ubuntustudio.org/ ?
[13:44] <yaili> doctormon: are these two projects similar in objectives?
[13:44] <doctormon> yaili: No, ubuntu studio is a distro, it's more perpendicular.
[13:45] <yaili> doctormon: but shouldn't there still be a shared effort? aren't both trying to attract the same kind of user?
[13:46] <doctormon> yaili: One is a meta of the other and visa versa provides tools to the latter. They're not the same.
[13:46] <sladen> yaili: Ubuntu Studio is something like Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, …
[13:46] <yaili> sladen: I understand what you're saying
[13:46] <AlanBell> sladen: thats great, I was just concerned that we might end up picking a bad time for the key people who we want to get involved
[13:46] <yaili> doctormon: I know they're not the same, but they are catering for the same needs
[13:47] <doctormon> yaili: No they're not.
[13:47] <doctormon> The Ubuntu Design website is specifically online tools used for design. Ubuntu studio is desktop tools for any creative type.
[13:47] <AlanBell> I thought studio was about audio production with a realtime kernel
[13:48] <sladen> doctormon: perhaps if you share examples it would highlight the differences more easily?
[13:49] <sladen> doctormon: I can certainly see why genericially "assembling tools for creative people" would get apply to many things, and so provide confusion
[13:49] <doctormon> sladen: Sure. UDW is more like deviantart and a bit like the loco portal and more like launchpad.
[13:49] <yaili> doctormon: calling the site Ubuntu Design seems like a really broad name for a very specific effort
[13:50] <doctormon> yaili: It's not that specific an effort. This team is for all Ubuntu Design.
[13:50] <mainerror> yaili: It is also called the Design Team so the name is not that specific.
[13:51] <yaili> doctormon: but you just said "The Ubuntu Design website is specifically online tools used for design"
[13:51] <yaili> doctormon: that's quite specific, are there any expansions planned for this site?
[13:51] <yaili> doctormon: what's its structure?
[13:52] <yaili> doctormon: what other type of content will it hold?
[13:52] <AlanBell> http://ubuntustudio.org/Oneiric+Ocelot "Unfortunately, the Ubuntu Studio suffered an almost complete team fail during this cycle." not so good
[13:55] <AlanBell> yaili: were you meaning that the design team should be using ubuntu studio?
[13:56] <yaili> AlanBell: no, I'm just asking to consider what is already out there and see if it fits in any way with this new effort/project
[13:57] <yaili> AlanBell: even if the answer is no, let's forget about it
[13:57] <AlanBell> ok, great, it is an interesting thought
[13:57] <doctormon> yaili: The website isn't even done yet and from experence this is certainly a required tool.
[13:58] <yaili> doctormon: which tool?
[13:58] <mainerror> The problem doctormon is trying to solve with the website is the one we discussed yesterday (I think) when we were talking about alternatives to Tumblr and Deviantart for sharing design concepts and stuff like that.
[13:58] <doctormon> yaili: Collabrative image/project/comment able website plus a home of the team online (although the wp site would have done that)
[13:59] <yaili> doctormon: what about brainstorm?
[13:59] <doctormon> yaili: Not the right tool
[13:59] <yaili> doctormon: why?
[14:00] <mainerror> yaili: Does brainstorm feature an image sharing and hosting mechanism?
[14:00] <yaili> doctormon: I need to pop into a meeting now but we should continue this discussion tomorrow
[14:02] <doctormon> yaili: I'll be here to answer any questions
[14:02]  * AlanBell makes a brainstorm account
[14:03] <AlanBell> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/28802/ has images on it
[14:06] <mainerror> Personally I'd prefer a design team website.
[14:06] <mainerror> Brainstorm doesn't seem right for that task.
[14:06] <AlanBell> running what?
[14:08] <mainerror> Didn't get you.
[14:09] <AlanBell> what software are you proposing such a website should run?
[14:11] <mainerror> Preferably a proven CMS. No need to totally reinvent the wheel. It should be extensible though.
[14:12] <mainerror> I'm not sure to be honest. There are many good systems out there. Wordpress and Drupal are the first two ones that I could think of.
[14:12] <AlanBell> that isn't very specific
[14:13] <AlanBell> ok, so design.canonical.com is going to move to design.ubuntu.com and that is running wordpress
[14:14] <AlanBell> so in terms of home of team online that is mission accomplished when that happens
[14:14] <mainerror> I'm not arguing against that I just don't think that we should use Brainstorm. That is all I'm saying. :)
[14:16] <AlanBell> dunno, I am not ready to write off brainstorm yet, seems quite appropriate in some ways
[14:17]  * AlanBell waits for password to arrive
[14:17]  * mainerror waits as well
[14:18] <mainerror> AlanBell: There is one big issue with Brainstorm an images. Those images seem to be hosted on imageshack.us.
[14:19] <AlanBell> presumably you can link to an image anywhere, probably bbcode or something
[14:29] <mainerror> No brainstorm password yet. :(
[14:35] <doctormon> AlanBell: I've tried now 7 different systems, some deployable code and some online services. Both for art and design workflows.
[14:35] <doctormon> I can find nothing that fits what we need.
[14:35] <doctormon> Or works
[14:35] <doctormon> or is maintained.
[14:37] <mainerror> I think we should setup a document where we can list what we need. A requirements list. That way we can prevent confusion.
[14:42] <doctormon> mainerror: I think you're right. It's kind of hard to explain to the group that this isn't my first rodeo, not even my second.
[14:45] <AlanBell> that would be great
[14:48] <mainerror> You reckon http://pad.ubuntu.com/ would be good for that?
[14:53] <sladen> from reading the scrollback, this is more like producing a domain-specific workflow site.  Eg. a la revu.ubuntu.com
[14:53] <sladen> it could be that /an instance/ of that site could be used for design-tasks by some-community
[14:54] <doctormon> sladen: That's exactly it!
[14:55] <sladen> flowed-workings is an anagram of 'design-workflow'
[14:56] <sladen> perhaps that would be the type of name that would allow /a tool/ to be created, without prematurely restricting the scope of groups that might want to deploy an instance of that codebase
[15:08] <cjohnston> doctormon: https://launchpad.net/community-web-projects and https://launchpad.net/~community-web-developers
[15:09] <doctormon> sladen: Is that a proposed name?
[15:11] <sladen> doctormon: only something I made up to illustrate that a tool name is variable (and probably more useful) if it does not presume a target user/group/instance
[15:12] <sladen> (btw, thank you for taking the initative and JFDI)
[16:05] <sladen> s/variable/viable/
[16:10] <cjohnston> doctormon: want to make the website teams for design members of each of those teams/projects ^^
[16:34] <doctormon> cjohnston: I don't understand, can you repeat?
[16:35] <cjohnston> doctormon: we have an umbrella community websites project and community websites developer team.. do you want to put the ubuntu-design project and team under them since they are community sites
[16:35] <doctormon> cjohnston: Yes I do.
[16:37] <cjohnston> doctormon: i invited the team
[16:37] <cjohnston> i dont have access to accept it
[16:38] <cjohnston> trying to remember how to add the project
[17:10] <prokoudine> hi
[17:11] <prokoudine> doctormon, so, we are talking about the palette thing on #inkscape
[17:11] <prokoudine> doctormon, do you guys actually still have a use for the old one?
[17:12] <mainerror> I'm not sure if it is worth removing it but it should be marked as the "old" one if kept in the palettes collection.
[17:16] <prokoudine> one idea is to rename it to something like "Ubuntu Human"
[17:17] <prokoudine> the thing is...
[17:17] <prokoudine> the whole point was to simplify creating branded artwork
[17:18] <prokoudine> both of the current new palettes do not provide enough shades to make them useful, IMO, and the old one is outdated
[17:21] <prokoudine> so I'm curious if you actually use the new ones in real production
[17:21] <mainerror> Well the official brand guideline defines some shades, I think.
[17:21] <mainerror> Let me check.
[17:21] <prokoudine> whether you enhance them somehow
[17:25] <mainerror> http://design.canonical.com/brand/5.%20Ubuntu%20colour%20palettes%20and%20colour%20landscape.pdf
[17:25] <prokoudine> http://imgh.us/ubuntu-color-tints-1.png
[17:25] <mainerror> Exactly!
[17:25] <prokoudine> would it work?
[17:25] <prokoudine> ok, i'll make a .gpl out of that
[17:26] <mainerror> I'm not speaking with authority here but I don't see any thing speaking against that.
[17:26] <mainerror> sladen is the one to ask.
[17:30] <mainerror> In my opinion the more predefined tints we have in the palette the less will people pick the wrong color in their projects.
[17:33] <sladen> mainerror: imagine the graded palette bar in Inkscape.  Something like that would work
[17:35] <sladen> mainerror: perhaps an Ubuntu palette.  And a combined Ubuntu/Canonical palette
[17:38] <mainerror> Sounds good.
[18:54] <prokoudine> sladen, just one thing...
[18:54] <prokoudine> sladen, mentioning CMYK value without mentioning the ICC profile is evil :)
[18:56] <prokoudine> sladen, it's a blessing that pantone is provided
[19:04] <AlanBell> pantone is closed :(
[19:06] <sladen> which is a pain
[19:07] <sladen> but not even specifying colours and colour profiles can get the lanyards right at UDS!