[01:52] <Guest2679> hey
[06:43] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:13] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Canonical Community Team IRC Meeting - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/22/canonical-community-team-irc-meeting/
[07:32] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:04] <danfish> mornings
[08:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Mornign doc.
[08:09] <nigelb> Morning UK!
[08:32] <DJones> Morning all
[08:36] <AlanBell> yay, fixed my unity3d
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> *\o/*
[08:42] <DJones> AlanBell: That'll teach you not to break it :)
[08:42] <AlanBell> no it won't
[08:42] <AlanBell> I plan to break it again at the weekend
[08:43] <DJones> Oh dear
[08:43] <DJones> With attitude, I think you should change your nick to Azel.phur
[08:44] <DJones> What had happened to it
[08:46] <AlanBell> I was testing an experimental plugin to tie compiz enhanced zoom to the text cursor position reported by at-spi
[08:46] <AlanBell> so you type stuff and the zoom pans along with your typing
[08:47] <DJones> So that it enlarges the area of the screen you're using at the time? That sounds useful for partially sighted users
[08:47] <AlanBell> yeah
[08:47] <AlanBell> nice for presentations too
[08:47] <czajkowski> morning
[08:48] <AlanBell> hi czajkowski
[08:48] <DJones> That'd be good my wifes uncle, shame he lives in newcastle so its it a bit far to go & demonstrate
[08:51] <AlanBell> good for quite a lot of people really
[09:02] <MooDoo> morning all
[09:04] <AlanBell> still one place left for the London christmas dinner
[09:09] <MooDoo> wish i could
[09:26] <daubers> Morning
[09:28] <kaushal> Hi
[09:28] <kaushal> is there a way to empty file using sudo perms ?
[09:28] <kaushal> I do not have root access
[09:29] <bigcalm> sudo echo "" > file/to/empty
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: : > file_to_empty
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> : is the "null" command
[09:31] <daubers> Also, if file_to_empty is owned by root you might want to sudo -i first
[09:31] <oimon> can someone remind me how to make a .deb file when compiling a program?
[09:32] <MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
[09:32] <MooDoo> :p
[09:32] <oimon> that'll do :)
[09:43] <DJones> Does anybody know if there's a book/electronics high street store that sells Kindles, Nooks & Kobo e-readers side by side so I can go in and compare them
[09:44] <DJones> I'm guessing that the kobo is only available at wh smiths, so probably just looking for somewhere with kindles & nooks
[09:45] <dogmatic69> DJones: have you tried maplins?
[09:45] <daubers> DJones: HMV might do
[09:45] <daubers> (they're trying to reposition themselves in that kind of market)
[09:46] <dogmatic69> my mom got my bro a kindle, but think it was online
[09:46] <DJones> I'll give them both a look
[09:46] <oimon> are kindles sold in high st?
[09:46] <DJones> Tesco sell kindles in store
[09:46] <DJones> As does Argos
[09:46] <oimon> i guess a trip to one of those bluewater type places would do it
[09:46] <DJones> I'm struggling to find anywhere that sells the nook though
[09:47] <oimon> i think it should be legal to own an ebook of a paper book you own :(
[09:49] <ubuntubhoy> you can scan it :D
[09:49] <oimon> :'(
[09:50] <oimon> getting this error: 'gio-2.0 >= 2.26.0' but version of GIO is 2.24.1- anyone know the package name on ubuntu for this?
[09:58] <JamesTait> Goooooood moooooooornin' all!
[09:58] <oimon> ah, think is libglib2.0-dev
[10:05] <czajkowski> danfish: http://eu.techcrunch.com/2011/11/21/diagnosia-secures-seed-round-to-create-global-drugs-info-search-engine/
[10:12] <czajkowski> AlanBell: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/11/21/francis_maude_it_procurement/
[10:15] <AlanBell> thanks
[10:15] <AlanBell> "An average bidding process for a public sector contract currently takes around 200 days to complete." that will be why we don't bother
[10:17] <oimon> anyone played zelda skyward sword yet?
[10:18] <czajkowski> AlanBell: seems very long
[10:19] <AlanBell> czajkowski: I can totally believe it, seeing as I have been working since May to put in something interesting into the cabinet office for free
[10:21] <czajkowski> nods
[10:21] <directhex> I think we gave 40 days for ITT response on our supercomputer tenders
[10:21] <czajkowski> 200 seems excessive
[10:21] <czajkowski> but given it's a government I'd expect it to be greater than 90
[10:22] <oimon> 200 days for response? or 200 days for the start to finish of the process?
[10:22] <AlanBell> I think that is start (internal writing the ITT) to awarding the contract
[10:23] <oimon> sounds about right
[10:23] <AlanBell> still not exactly agile
[10:25] <directhex> writing an ITT is hard work
[10:25] <directhex> so many cases need covering
[10:34] <czajkowski> AlanBell: aye it does seem long, however given it's a government contract I'd expect it to be thorough which is a pita to SMES
[10:41] <AlanBell> yeah, they have the appearance of thoroughness
[10:42] <AlanBell> but there are many many problems with them
[10:42] <AlanBell> and with the general processes even outside of procurement
[10:42] <czajkowski> nods
[10:43] <AlanBell> there are things like security where the rules are a secret
[10:44] <AlanBell> CSG GPG38 is all about guidance for security relating to open source software
[10:44] <AlanBell> if you are an existing supplier you can get access to it . . .
[10:45] <AlanBell> same goes for all security documentation, you can't see it if you are not an existing supplier so an open procurement process is a joke
[10:45] <oimon> i can't even get to see the tender docs we're sending to companies
[10:59] <czajkowski> AlanBell: do you think they are doing enough to change the process?
[11:00] <AlanBell> dunno, they are scared of being sued by the suppliers if they do
[11:01] <czajkowski> why would they be sued?
[11:02] <davmor2> morning all, czajkowski prod
[11:04]  * daubers will be thoroughly amused by the day that czajkowski goes postal and beats davmor2 to death with a shovel
[11:04] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[11:05] <oimon> or goes portal and sends him into a wormhole
[11:06] <gord> must sell popcorn to that event
[11:06] <gord> will make a fortune
[11:07] <bigcalm> How will you spend it when you're dead?
[11:07] <oimon> this is the problem all of mankind has bigcalm
[11:07] <czajkowski> daubers: we were very well behaved at UDs, davmor2 even left me alone when he saw how sore I was
[11:07] <AlanBell> czajkowski: as Francis Maude said, the UK takes a very strange angle on European Legislation
[11:08] <czajkowski> but I did have bruises on my arm from the pokings
[11:08] <czajkowski> indeed
[11:08] <AlanBell> like we actually do what it says
[11:08] <AlanBell> the rest of Europe treats it like the pirates code
[11:08] <czajkowski> hmm
[11:09] <AlanBell> more of a guideline than an actual law ya see, arrr
[11:09] <czajkowski> I'm not entirely too sure that's a fair comment
[11:09] <AlanBell> they are very scared of being protectionist
[11:10] <oimon> poking can be construed as sexual harassment
[11:10] <davmor2> czajkowski: it is
[11:12] <czajkowski> oimon: it's an ongoing joke it's fine
[11:14] <shauno> just don't poke people you don't know so well.  that can get awkward
[11:17] <davmor2> oimon: that's why I prod not poke :P can't be misconstrued as a sexual event then :D
[11:18] <MartijnVdS> it could be
[11:18] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: you need mind bleach ;)
[11:19]  * AlanBell thinks davmor2 is pure and innocent of mind
[11:19] <AlanBell> and further, PHP sucks
[11:19] <davmor2> AlanBell: Stop that laughing
[11:20] <MooDoo> AlanBell: davmor2 pure as the driven snow...........WELL DRIVEN! :)
[11:20] <davmor2> AlanBell: no PHP only sucks if you don't know how to program in it backward, forwards and sideways,  then it's the perfect tool
[11:20] <AlanBell> don't eat the yellow snow
[11:21] <MooDoo> AlanBell: that's a good tip :D
[11:21] <AlanBell> the lack of debugging is annoying me
[11:21] <davmor2> AlanBell: don't give out me waiters tip to everyone
[11:21] <davmor2> AlanBell: that's cause you're meant to program it right in the first place ;)
[11:22] <AlanBell> it should generate an error message saying "no you loon, you didn't close that quote" or "semicolon at the end of line 234 would be nice please"
[11:22] <AlanBell> rather than returning a totally blank page with no indication why
[11:22] <MooDoo> <?php phpinfo(); ?>  there you go that's the only php code you'll need  ;)
[11:22] <daubers> AlanBell: You could turn the debugging info on.....
[11:22] <daubers> Thought that used to do that
[11:23] <AlanBell> it does do some debugging, but miss an end quote and I get the the silent treatment
[11:23] <BigRedS> AlanBell: then turn on error display?
[11:24] <BigRedS> Ohhh
[11:24] <BigRedS> Hm, I've never seen that before. But I don't write PHP, I just do Bad Things to other people's
[11:24] <daubers> AlanBell: odd, it used to whinge at me something cronic
[11:25] <BigRedS> yeah, if you set display_error to on, and error_reporting to something fairly verbose i'd have thought it'd complain there
[11:26] <daubers> Default seems to be E_ALL & ~E_NOTICE
[11:26] <daubers> Might be a notice rather than an error :)
[11:27] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: install xdebug
[11:27] <AlanBell> change from E_WARNING to E_ALL
[11:27] <BigRedS> but not in production
[11:28] <dogmatic69> add something like this to /etc/php/conf.d/xdebug.ini http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1339523901
[11:29] <AlanBell> that seems better now
[11:30] <AlanBell> thanks dogmatic69, I will try that later
[11:30] <Twinkletoes> What's the easiest way to prevent cron from starting a script if it hasn't finished from the last time?
[11:30] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: there are loads of other options in xdebug, one little error is now like 10 pages of debug info
[11:31] <AlanBell> Twinkletoes: you can use a pid file, but watch out for stuff crashing and leaving the file behind
[11:32] <AlanBell> or just schedule runs further apart
[11:32] <Twinkletoes> AlanBell: Ok, so it's not a cron thing then, I just have to manage my scrpts?
[11:32] <BigRedS> the pid file is a pretty good way to detect crashing, too
[11:33] <AlanBell> yeah, it should check for the process and the file and deal with that situation ideally
[11:33] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: the app you are coding might be overloading the error reporting default also, that will cause white screens
[11:42] <IMLI> I have dell gx 280.I am using Ubuntu 11.10 but im unable to resize my resolution which is stuck on 1024x786 but my screen resolution is 1280x1024.Is there anyway to resize my screen resolution?
[11:43] <bigcalm> imexil: what is the graphics chip in it?
[11:44] <bigcalm> nNivdia, ATI, Intel?
[11:44] <imexil> ???
[11:44] <bigcalm> Sorry
[11:44] <bigcalm> IMLI: ^^
[11:44] <imexil>  !
[11:45] <IMLI> I have Intel 915 motherboard and dont have any external graphics card.I am using built in grapihcs
[11:46] <bigcalm> IMLI: see if there are any restricted drivers available to install
[11:47] <IMLI> There is no restricted drivers to installed i have already checked
[11:48] <IMLI> Intel 82915G/GV/910GL
[11:49] <apw> is the monitor directly connected to the machine or via a KVM
[11:49] <davmor2> IMLI: I'm assuming you have tried the screen resizing tool correct
[11:50] <IMLI> My monitor is directly connected to the machine.
[11:53] <IMLI> Is there anyway to set my screen resolution?
[11:54] <apw> IMLI, if the machine is not letting you set the resolution via the normal tools, then likely it is not sensing the capabilities of the monitor correctly, and working to protect it
[11:54] <apw> IMLI, the guys on #ubuntu-x may be able to figure out what is up
[11:55] <bigcalm> I was trying to work out what country #ubuntu-x was for :S
[11:56] <MooDoo> bigcalm: doh!
[11:56] <IMLI> I think my video driver is not supported by ubuntu
[11:57] <davmor2> bigcalm: it's the Xiachuan Dao of china I think you'll find
[11:58] <daubers> IMLI: it's more liklely that your monitor is not telling your laptop what res it supports correctly. Loads of monitors do that
[11:58]  * daubers has a collection of about 5 monitors all of which incorrectly report their resolution
[11:59] <IMLI> Can i edit .XORG file?
[12:00] <davmor2> daubers: I have a great monitor it reports both it's x and y resolution as 1024x768
[12:01] <daubers> davmor2: Gotta love those "standards"
[12:02] <davmor2> daubers: shockingly linux gets it wrong, mind you since I've plugged my win7 box in it I can happily confirm that so does Windows :)
[12:03] <bigcalm> christel: ping
[12:05] <gord> technically, the monitor gets it wrong ;) reports bad information
[12:06] <christel> bigcalm: pong
[12:06] <gord> I've seen that happen with less than quality VGA cables - too much interference on the line
[12:08] <davmor2> so gord ccsm you love it right? /me heads for the bomb shelter :D
[12:31] <mattt> wow-wee-woo
[12:31] <mattt> busy morning :(
[12:42] <oimon> with cups server , it used to be possible to unpublish printers via the cups web interface. now i can't see it in the newer versions - anyone know where to find it?
[12:59] <oimon> DJones: tesco are selling kindles for £79 with a promo code
[13:00] <oimon>  you can get £10 off from Tesco Direct using the code TDX-NTRY until Thursday  1 December 2011
[13:00]  * penguin42 wants the Fire when they get their arse in gear and start selling it in the UK
[13:01] <DJones> oimon: yeah, I know about that offer
[13:01] <DJones> penguin42: I was tempted by the fire, but the reviews I've read in the last 24 hours aren't very good
[13:02] <penguin42> DJones: Oh I don't want it for any of the firmware that's on it.
[13:02] <DJones> You going to root & install a fresh os on it
[13:03] <penguin42> DJones: Yeh, as a cheap dev board it sounds quite nie
[13:03] <penguin42> c
[13:03] <ali1234> is it the good kindle with the keyboard or the crap new one where you have to scroll through the alphabet to enter any text?
[13:05] <oimon> depends on your needs but my missis hasn't required keyboard entry to turn pages in an ebook
[13:05] <ali1234> how do you search?
[13:06] <gord> i don't think people do.. i know when i buy books for my kindle, i go to amazon.co.uk and let them sync over
[13:06] <oimon> she reads novels, so doesn't do any searching
[13:07] <gord> the physical keyboard with eink is a pain at the best of times
[13:12] <oimon> what makes me laugh is the price of the case
[13:13] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Canonical Community Team 12.04 Plans - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/22/canonical-community-team-12-04-plans/
[13:20] <dogmatic69> if i am running two drives for a dual boot, if one dies will the other os still boot?
[13:20] <gord> depends on the drive :)
[13:21] <dogmatic69> :/
[13:21] <gord> if grub is installed on drive a and drive a dies, it won't boot
[13:21] <gord> if drive b dies, it will
[13:21] <dogmatic69> ah
[13:21] <dogmatic69> gord: is there a way to have a setup that is less 'fragile'
[13:22] <gord> i think failing drives is your fragile part
[13:22] <dogmatic69> ye
[13:22] <oimon> what's on the 2nd drive?
[13:23] <AlanBell> you can install grub on both
[13:23] <dogmatic69> well im thinking ubuntu on A and xzy on B. could be windows or anything
[13:23] <AlanBell> the bios (or uefi) probably won't be that happy about a dead powered up disk
[13:24] <AlanBell> but if you remove it then it should attempt to boot the other, no more primary/secondary dip switches
[13:26] <AlanBell> not even sure how sata chooses which disk to boot first?
[13:26] <gord> boot order in the bios
[13:44] <oimon> you can't put kindle books on your wishlist :(
[13:52] <oimon> Today i learned that the author of the tripods books wrote a prequel 20 years later in 1988
[14:09] <penguin42> oimon: Was that around the time of the BBC series?
[14:10] <oimon> penguin42: that came out in 1984
[14:10] <penguin42> huh ok
[14:10] <oimon> so probably was a result
[14:10] <oimon> i heard rumours they may be making a film
[14:11] <oimon> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0441811/
[14:12] <oimon> penguin42: are you the right age to remember the BBC series?
[14:12] <oimon> i was 9 or 10. it was brilliant.
[14:12] <penguin42> oimon: Yes
[14:13] <penguin42> I would have been about 12
[14:15] <davmor2> oimon: you mean this one http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/classic/tripods/
[14:17] <DJones> Was that the series that they never finished televising, they didn't get the final series made
[14:17] <MooDoo> blimey i remember watching that
[14:18] <davmor2> MooDoo: showing your age now
[14:18] <oimon> yeah, no series 3...BBC screwed up
[14:19] <DJones> I thought the code names for Ubuntu where a bit odd, but this is even funnier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_kernel_names
[14:21] <MooDoo> homicidal dwarf hamster lol
[14:22] <DJones> Sheep on Meth :)
[14:22] <oimon> not sure if the tripods film will ever be made :(
[14:24] <MooDoo> boooo
[14:25] <MooDoo> i suppose we have falling skies :)
[14:26] <DJones> Thats reminded me I want to read that 3rd book to find out what happened
[14:27] <davmor2> MooDoo: Give me the Jeff Wayne version of war of the worlds any day :)  although tripod was addictive viewing at the time
[14:28] <freakyclown> the tripods was cool
[14:28] <MooDoo> davmor2: yeah, you're a tom cruise version kinda guy aren't you ;)
[14:28] <MooDoo> did i say guy...what i meant was...... :p
[14:28] <freakyclown> there is a tripod in woking
[14:28] <freakyclown> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=woking+tripod&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=h7HLTpGdHdGE-wbVn8jRDg&ved=0CFcQsAQ&biw=1221&bih=573
[14:30] <freakyclown> can also buy the series on dvd http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000R21294/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=aheadofthetim-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=B000R21294
[14:30] <davmor2> MooDoo: Note the JEFF WAYNE version bit!!!!  as in the cd with Richard Burton that freaked out the Americans when the BBC played it :)
[14:30] <MooDoo> davmor2: i know i know
[14:31] <oimon> i worry that watching the DVD would disappoint me. i prefer my 25yr old memories
[14:31] <oimon> just like the grpahics and gameplay of my old 8-bit computer games
[14:31] <freakyclown> i watched it fairly recently as in like <6months
[14:31] <freakyclown> its REALLY good
[14:32] <oimon> but no series 3 :(
[14:32] <freakyclown> the production value was through the roof!
[14:32] <freakyclown> hard to imagine them using life size props of legs etc for todays shows
[14:32] <oimon> maybe the BBC should remake it , rather than that torchwood crap
[14:32] <freakyclown> it would be crap cgi at 5xs the price :/
[14:33] <freakyclown> oimon: NO they would turn it INTO that kinda crap
[14:33] <freakyclown> same as the new reddwarf will be crap too
[14:33] <DJones> Its amazing how good the quality of a lot of the early sci-fi authors was considering the time the books were written, E E Doc Smith's Lensman series or The Beyond The Blue Event Horizon series
[14:33] <oimon> and probably turn it into a love triangle story between the three men
[14:33] <oimon> nwew reddwarf?
[14:33] <freakyclown> oimon: it would be like the gayification of frodo and samwise
[14:33] <oimon> lol
[14:34] <freakyclown> oimon: new series being filmed
[14:34] <oimon> oh dear
[14:34] <freakyclown> indeed :/
[14:34] <oimon> have they learned nothing?
[14:34] <penguin42> talking of remakes - there is a remake of the remake of the Thing due out any day
[14:34] <freakyclown> yep...people will watch it in hopes and they will get paid and we will have hopes and dreams crushed
[14:34] <freakyclown> penguin42: i bet its cgi too
[14:35] <davmor2> penguin42: the first one is still the best
[14:35] <penguin42> well, I don't have too big a problem with a bit of cgi
[14:35] <DJones> I wonder how long it'll be before they remake Space 1999
[14:35] <freakyclown> when its used righ its amazing
[14:35] <freakyclown> when its used to save time building a prop that would look better...no
[14:35] <oimon> the thing was the most gory film i ever saw
[14:35] <oimon> when the dogs head peeled back like a banana
[14:35] <penguin42> DJones: they'll never be able to replicate the tacky technology
[14:36] <freakyclown> money cant buy cheapness
[14:36] <penguin42> (although they did have portable video phones, so they do have to have credit for that)
[14:36] <DJones> penguin42: Probably not, but I could see them doing something similar to the way star trek was done
[14:36] <freakyclown> its why enterprise will never be better ST orig
[14:37] <freakyclown> you mean the way they replaced some of the stuff with cgi
[14:37] <oimon> bob the builder is CGI now :(
[14:37] <penguin42> freakyclown: I liked the 1st series of enterprise, it was all nicely tacky
[14:37] <freakyclown> having just literally last week finished watching the rejig'd star treks back to back
[14:37] <freakyclown> i have to say it wasnt too bad!
[14:38] <DJones> I preferred Star Trek Next Generation to the original series, but DS9, Voyager & Enterprise weren't that good
[14:38] <davmor2> I like the new startrek film
[14:38] <penguin42> davmor2: Except for Scotty I agree
[14:38] <freakyclown> DJones: i bet your about 30ish arnt you?
[14:39] <DJones> I wish
[14:39] <penguin42> giggles - yeh determining age by preference of ST series
[14:39] <daubers> davmor2: As did I
[14:39] <DJones> 30 was a long time ago
[14:39]  * daubers tended to prefer DS9
[14:39] <penguin42> actually, I prefer NG even though I'm much nearer 40
[14:39]  * penguin42 looks at daubers oddly
[14:39] <freakyclown> babylon 5 was a good use of cgi
[14:40] <DJones> penguin42: I can give you over 5 years then
[14:40] <daubers> penguin42: I like the wild westy "We're stuck in one place for most of it" feel of ds9
[14:40] <oimon> how can i use egrep to say look for "word" and either 1 or 2
[14:40] <oimon> i.e. egrep word | egrep "1|2" file
[14:40] <penguin42> oimon: "word[12]" ?
[14:40] <DJones> One remake/re-imagining I did enjoy was the recent series of "V"
[14:41] <daubers> DJones: new battlestar was very good, not seen the new V though
[14:41] <DJones> daubers: I didn't like battlestar
[14:41] <oimon> penguin42:  what if it's word and 404 or 401
[14:41] <DJones> Bring back Sapphire & Stell :)
[14:41] <penguin42> oimon: word40[14]
[14:41] <DJones> steel even
[14:42] <penguin42> DJones: Hoho - that was odd
[14:42] <oimon> hmm..404 or 302?
[14:42] <oimon> last one i promise :)
[14:42] <penguin42> (although I can't actually remember the detail of any s&s episode)
[14:43] <DJones> Just looking through this list, some names I don't remember http://totalscifionline.com/features/5769-the-100-greatest-sci-fi-fantasy-tv-shows
[14:43] <penguin42> oimon: Hmm word(302|404) seems to work
[14:43] <oimon> ah, round brackets..
[14:43] <DJones> penguin42: One of the scariest I remember where the Quatermass films
[14:44]  * penguin42 hands DJones a cactus
[14:44] <oimon> penguin42: that might look for word302 and word404, rather than occurences on the line
[14:45] <gord> i should really stop writing important things in to tomboy
[14:45] <penguin42> oimon: you mean you want something like word.*(302|404) ?
[14:45] <gord> should just be called Write Only
[14:45] <freakyclown> how cow i need a life :(
[14:46] <freakyclown> there is only about 12 or 15 series on that list ive not watched :/
[14:46] <oimon> gord: what happened?
[14:46] <gord> nothing?
[14:46] <oimon> penguin42: seems not to work for me. thanks anway...i'll keep trying
[14:46] <gord> i'm saying i don't read the notes i write...
[14:46] <oimon> ah
[14:46] <davmor2> DJones: theres about 12 on that list that I haven't heard of or seen
[14:47] <oimon> better than writing on post-its i guess
[14:47] <gord> post-its live on the side of your monitor, you do see them
[14:47] <DJones> Ooh, must be due for a new series of Sanctuary soon, started premiering in the US in October
[14:47] <gord> tomboy lives in a tiny indicator that looks like the email indicator right next to it
[14:47] <oimon> and on my phone
[14:48] <freakyclown> tomboy++
[14:48] <gord> ha, that list ranks dr who higher than star trek, twilight zone, xfiles and the prisoner. ignoring!
[14:48] <DJones> gord: And so it should
[14:48] <oimon> tom baker
[14:48] <freakyclown> oh please mccoy
[14:49] <freakyclown> if only for alice!
[14:49] <gord> dr who has and will always be fairly poor and shoddy enjoyable cult sci-fi - enjoyable but not truly great
[14:49] <DJones> Best doctors... William Hartnell & Patrick Troughtman
[14:50]  * penguin42 rather liked Tom Baker
[14:50] <penguin42> anyone for a jelly baby?
[14:50] <DJones> And I guess John Pertwee
[14:51] <DJones> I guess pickingthe 1st 3 doctors does show my age :)
[14:52] <oimon> freakyclown: alice? is that sophie aldred?
[14:52]  * penguin42 suspects DJones runs his computer in monochrome
[14:53] <DJones> penguin42: Robot hand attached to the computer that draws on a slate
[14:53] <penguin42> nod
[14:53] <oimon> eww
[14:54] <freakyclown> alice sophie smae thing
[14:54] <freakyclown> ace was the character
[14:54] <oimon> must have been your hormones awakening or something
[14:54] <freakyclown> oh pleasee she was hot
[14:54] <freakyclown> was also in our school sex-ed video nude so that helped :/
[14:55] <MooDoo> yay ace :)
[14:55] <oimon> aghghh
[14:55] <oimon> what possesses people to star in those school vids
[14:56] <oimon> i still refer to my previous hormones comment, especiaally after your revelation
[14:56] <bigcalm> So the gb archive for ubuntu has stopped serving karmic-updates ?
[14:56] <bigcalm> This is annoying
[14:56] <oimon> !support
[14:56] <lubotu3`> The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org and http://askubuntu.com
[14:56] <oimon> meh
[14:56] <penguin42> bigcalm: You do know what year it is don't you?
[14:57] <bigcalm> :D
[14:57] <bigcalm> Actually, it's my sources list that's at fault. It should still be pointing at karmic
[14:58] <daubers> in inkscape, is there a way of creating a node where two lines intersect?
[14:59] <DJones> Don't you need old-releases.ubuntu.com for karmic now
[15:01] <oimon> does rhythmbox have amazon mp3 purchase support? i guess not
[15:02] <davmor2> oimon: not that I'm aware of
[15:02] <oimon> each time started banshee to buy mp3's lately, it's hung or crashes
[15:03] <davmor2> oimon: this is why banshee needs to die in the flames of hell
[15:04] <oimon> i dislike rhythmbox intensely- am i holding it wrong?
[15:04] <davmor2> oimon: it has great features they just refuse to work
[15:06] <oimon> have you ever used the cover manager in clementine? 50x better than banshee's one , since it actually downloads cover art
[15:06] <gordonjcp> I've never managed to get rhythbox to work, basically this decade
[15:06] <davmor2> gordonjcp: seriously what do you do to it
[15:06] <oimon> it doesn't even handle single playing of files properly
[15:08] <davmor2> oimon: it does the same thing as banshee imports and then plays or am I missing something
[15:08] <oimon> doesn't seem to work for me if i click a file from nautilus which is setup to open with rhythmbox
[15:09] <oimon> as i say, i must be using it wrong
[15:09] <oimon> i wish i could see a video demo of it , done by someone who uses it well
[15:10] <davmor2> oimon: need to wait till they fix up the U1 music shop then I could
[15:10] <gordonjcp> davmor2: no idea
[15:10] <gordonjcp> davmor2: lots of stuff just plain doesn't work
[15:10] <penguin42> gah, amazon mp3 won't install these days
[15:10] <davmor2> penguin42: you on 64bit?
[15:11] <penguin42> davmor2: Yeh but the bigger problem is that it depends on about 50 ancient libboost versions
[15:11] <davmor2> penguin42: sadtrombone.com
[15:12] <penguin42> hehe
[15:12] <MooDoo> http://tomahawk-player.org/about
[15:13] <oimon> u1 music store is ~£1 more per album than amazons
[15:13] <penguin42> oimon: Especially since this is an amazon free track
[15:13] <oimon> and individual tracks are 99p vs 79p..
[15:14] <oimon> and the killer is that half the music i search more doesn't exist there
[15:14] <davmor2> oimon: indeed, I have found some cheaper but on the whole not often
[15:14] <oimon> itunes has the hipster tax of £1 per album too
[15:17] <oimon> MooDoo: any good?
[15:18] <MooDoo> oimon: not used it, although i believe czajkowski was going to review it, she might be the better person to ask
[15:27] <czajkowski> eh?
[15:36] <oimon> anyone use a mac with windows keyboard attached?
[15:37] <shauno> not on a regular basis, but I have
[15:37] <oimon> user is complaining that \ key is missing/unmapped in lion
[15:38] <oimon> any ideas?
[15:38] <oimon> never touch macs so trying to find out before going in and looking like a chump
[15:38] <shauno> the mac UK layout is very, very similar to a regular US layout.  so most chances they'll find it where # is marked
[15:38] <davmor2> czajkowski: who let you out of the play pen?
[15:39] <shauno> if you can find them a US keyboard, they'll fare much better.  otherwise, pretend they're using a US layout that happens to have a fat enter key
[15:40] <oimon> ugh sounds hideous..i guess most people give up and buy an apple keyboard
[15:40] <czajkowski> davmor2: hush you
[15:41] <davmor2> czajkowski: Nope :P
[15:43] <shauno> oimon: you can shoe-horn in a custom keymap, eg http://liyang.hu/osx-british.xhtml
[15:47] <shauno> I tend to just ignore it and carry on with life tho.  the amiga-uk layout is different to the pc-uk layout too, and I keep stumbling across US keyboards at work.  As long as no-one puts azerty infront of me, I'm happy
[15:48] <oimon> shauno: i found that exact page :)
[15:48] <popey> i used to teach courses in belgium. their azerty keyboard would mess with me all the time
[15:49] <oimon> azerty should be banned
[15:49] <shauno> oimon: seems to be the least out-of-date I could find.  after that, it's looking for tools to write your own keymap.  and at that point, a new keyboard is cheaper than my manhours
[15:49] <davmor2> popey: not that was a qwerty keyboard it's just the alcohol is stronger out there :P
[15:49] <oimon> they mess around with ; and : and , . too
[15:49] <penguin42> popey: That's the one with numbers in exactly the wrong place?
[15:49] <oimon> ah, thats it..shift to get numbers
[15:50] <oimon> must have been designed by government committee
[15:50] <shauno> that's one thing that did trip me up a couple of months ago.  I accidentally managed to put the GBP sign in my password (I wasn't thinking, and just did shift+3 - this keyboard doesn't have the GBP glyph on it)
[15:51] <shauno> and then managed to lock my account by borrowing a machine that had a US keyboard :(
[15:51] <popey> yeah
[15:51] <popey> insane keyboard
[15:51] <penguin42> what ever happened to the magic for typing a character by ascii value on the keypad?
[15:52] <shauno> between macs and laptops, I've very few machines where that works anymore
[15:53] <shauno> besides, on a sensible machine where the alt key actually provides alternate characters, instead of using win31's braindead move of using it as a menu accelerator, I don't tend to need to remember ascii
[16:06] <Apacheuk> afternoon everyone
[16:07] <MooDoo> hiya
[16:33] <shauno> oh no .. just realised thanksgiving is this week :(
[16:33] <gord> oh no
[16:34] <shauno> I really don't like working thanksgiving.  we get some of the most idiotic calls
[16:35] <oimon> due to american office being off?
[16:35] <shauno> yeah
[16:36] <oimon> i got to the mac and realised it is a very unintuitive interface
[16:36] <oimon> took me ages before realising how to add a printer. then it failed
[16:39] <shauno> settings -> printers -> 'add' button is unintuitive?
[16:41] <oimon> didn't see the tiny + button
[16:41] <oimon> and couldn't resize printer list window
[16:42] <shauno> I'm half curious to try it on ubuntu so far.  I'd be highly amused if I finally found something ubuntu did better on the desktop
[16:42] <oimon> this is lion btw..don't know if previous are different
[16:43] <gord> huh, thats interesting, firefox 4 on 11.10 and 11.04 doesn't say ubuntu in the user agent string - no wonder the whole distrowatch thing happened
[16:43] <oimon> http://www.lboro.ac.uk/it/print/mac-images/print-and-scan.png
[16:43] <shauno> it's about the same .. and +/- controls at the end of a modifyable list are pretty standard elements
[16:43] <oimon> i just didn't notice the + for ages...
[16:44] <gord> why would you add a printer?
[16:44] <gord> i just connect the printer, then go to print, then it works
[16:44] <oimon> because mac didn't know it was there
[16:44] <oimon> then i chose the apple driver and it failed
[16:44] <oimon> then i chose the cups driver and that failed too
[16:44] <gord> baaad printer
[16:44] <oimon> bad apple
[16:44] <gord> prolly won't work on ubuntu well either
[16:45] <oimon> course it does
[16:45] <oimon> it's supported officially on apple too
[16:45] <oimon> it's a standard HP
[16:45] <oimon> also, i went to localhost:631 and added it there, but mac print dialog doesn't seem to use those printers :-\
[16:46] <oimon> had to apologise and leave
[16:46] <popey> gord: distrowatch doesnt work like that
[16:46] <popey> gord: they look at hits on the page not referrers aiui
[16:47] <oimon> ways to win at distrowatch.. invent a new OS name and get popular sites to mention it
[16:48] <gord> ahayzen, thats beyond useless then
[16:48] <gord> ... ah
[16:48] <gord> not ahtab
[16:48] <oimon> lol
[16:48] <oimon> ihihihhi
[16:48] <gord> oh awit its because i did ah, - the comma next to the ah expanded it. lame
[16:49] <oimon> ah, really?
[16:49] <gord> depends on your client and settings obviously :P
[16:51] <popey> ah, yes
[16:53] <indy_> hi
[16:53] <indy_> how do i fix the ubuntu corrupted recovery screen?
[16:53] <indy_> when I load it the screen is garbled
[16:56] <ahayzen> gord: Hi .... i was like wht is useless? lol :)
[16:57] <geekMePlease> Do you need to check data-roaming if you want to use Mobile Broadband?
[16:58] <dogmatic69> no, unless you are not in your home country
[16:58] <geekMePlease> dogmatic69: Ok, thanks! Have a few problems in setting mobile broadbank to my ZTE light
[16:58] <dogmatic69> roaming is using networks outside your providers network
[16:59]  * dogmatic69 checks the channel topic
[16:59] <dogmatic69> nope, its still about ubuntu
[17:02] <brobostigon> http://code.google.com/p/android-x86/downloads/list  interesting, android 3.2.2 on x86.
[17:08] <shauno> dash is seriously interesting.  I can't imagine actually using it, but it's fun to poke at
[17:09] <geekMePlease> Has anyone ever added an external antenna to a tablet?
[17:09] <davmor2> shauno: dash is great fun and faster than opening nautilus then finding a file then opening it in an app for example
[17:15] <CreakyBore> /help
[17:16] <bigcalm> Oh dear
[17:16] <shauno> a little bummed that you can't type paths into it if you want to.  and you can't use initials either
[17:17] <MartijnVdS> Also, if you press Enter too fast, some other program might be started on Alt+F2
[17:18] <shauno> ok, that's odd.  this time it did let me write a path.  last time /home/soneil/ opened firefox and sent me to www.home.com
[17:19] <shauno> (I don't have a ~ key in my VM, for various reasons)
[17:21] <shauno> ah.  if it's invoked with alt+f2, /home/user works.  if invoked with super_L, it doesn't
[17:25] <shauno> one silly question tho .. how do I find out what release I'm on ?
[17:25] <bigcalm> cat /etc/lsb-release
[17:26] <bigcalm> Or: new_booking.thtml
[17:27] <bigcalm> Erm
[17:27] <bigcalm> Or: lsb_release -r
[17:27] <shauno> yeah I know lsb_release.  I was more looking for the 'about ubuntu' dialog that used to be right beside 'about gnome' in one of the menus
[17:27] <bigcalm> The dangers of having 2 copy buffers
[17:28] <awilkins> shauno, The "System Info" application (how it appears in Dash)
[17:28] <shauno> ah, that's more like it - thanks
[17:28] <awilkins> shauno, Seems to be a sub-pane of the new settings widget
[17:42] <_Roman> Hello I am using Ubuntu 9.10.  I have just tried doing an apt-get update command and keep getting errors like the following:
[17:42] <_Roman> Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/karmic/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.92.170 80]
[17:43] <popey> !karmic
[17:43] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala) was the eleventh release of Ubuntu. !End-Of-Life on April 29th 2011, see http://goo.gl/UUTAB for details.
[17:43] <popey> _Roman: karmic is end of life so it's not in the standard repositories anymore
[17:43] <_Roman> Does that mean that all the package repositories have now been removed?
[17:43] <popey> no, moved
[17:44] <_Roman> what do I need to do in order to access them?
[17:44] <popey> to another server 'old-releases'
[17:44] <popey> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/
[17:44] <popey> you can edit your /etc/apt/sources.list and change 'archve.ubuntu.com' to 'old-releases.ubuntu.com'
[17:46] <Myrtti> ho-hum.
[17:46] <_Roman> thanks, that is working great.
[17:46] <Myrtti> there goes shred
[17:46] <Myrtti> :-(
[17:47] <popey> shred?
[17:47] <Myrtti> have to give my old laptop in at latest next week
[17:57] <popey> ☹
[18:38] <oly> anyone got an Andy Pad, thinking of getting one as an e-book reader which does abit more
[18:41] <gord> new japanese candy for gord \o/
[18:42] <kirrus> is candyjapan worth it then gord?
[18:42] <gord> i think it is, but i'm a giant nerd
[18:48] <gord> lots of cool stuff this time - http://i.imgur.com/ptg7X.png
[18:50] <davmor2> gord: what the hell is that?
[18:52] <gord> davmor2, candy japan, a club that sends you japanese candy every two weeks - i got pokemon gummies, *three* pikachus in that. i don't know what anything else was. some sticks that tasted like fizzy soda and cola, and some soda chewy things
[18:55] <davmor2> gord: madness ;)
[18:55] <gord> i'm bring some down to the lighthouse sometime :)
[18:59] <gord> was gonna bring the red bean candy last time but you wouldn't like that... tasted like potatoes
[19:01] <jutnux> Mm, doner kebab.
[19:15] <smittix> Evening all.
[19:17] <davmor2> gord: nice
[19:23]  * czajkowski pokes davmor2 
[19:24]  * davmor2 hugs czajkowski 
[19:24] <davmor2> see how many people are paying attention
[19:24]  * czajkowski pours a bucket of ice over davmor2 
[19:36]  * jutnux stabs czajkowski
[19:37] <davmor2> jutnux: I don't think stabbing czajkowski is allowed
[19:37] <jutnux> I will face the punishment :'(
[19:39] <czajkowski> jutnux: oi
[19:39] <czajkowski> there is no stabbing of me allowed
[19:40] <jutnux> I see no law!
[19:40] <czajkowski> only davmor2 and MooDoo are in the naughty category
[19:42] <jutnux> Kinky ^_^
[20:43] <jutnux> So, what languages do y'all program in?
[20:54] <davmor2> jutnux: there is only one programming language
[20:54] <dwatkins> COBOL? ;)
[20:55] <davmor2> dwatkins: Heretic, Burn the witch!
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: brainf***?
[20:55] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: See above
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> jutnux: I write Perl :)
[20:56] <jutnux> Perl is too old :|
[20:56] <dwatkins> Yeah, I was kidding, we all know everyone should program in assembler.
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> jutnux: Why? It's on a yearly release cycle now
[20:56] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: My heart goes out to you it really does :'(
[20:57] <MartijnVdS> 5.14 is out
[20:57] <jutnux> MartijnVdS: Is it? Oh, haha.
[20:57] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: it's a lovely language :)
[20:58] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: I've seen perl and people who know it I admire but I'll stick to python ta
[20:58] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I love python too :)
[20:58] <jutnux> davmor2: What GUI do you use for Python?
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> gui?
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> people use guis?
[20:59] <jutnux> Well
[20:59] <jutnux> when you program with it
[20:59] <jutnux> When you program a GUI
[20:59] <davmor2> jutnux: Gui?
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> I just use vim
[20:59] <jutnux> What framework
[20:59] <jutnux> Arghhhhhh
[20:59] <jutnux> Mindfu**
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> vim \o/
[20:59] <jutnux> Like wxWidgets, PyGTK?
[20:59] <jutnux> Sorry guys, tired.
[20:59] <davmor2> jutnux: I don't
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> I don't write GUI apps, I do web apps and backend daemons :)
[20:59] <jutnux> Oh right.
[21:00] <jutnux> Is Vim any good MartijnVdS?
[21:00] <jutnux> I liked emacs
[21:00] <jutnux> Vim I have no idea what plugins to use
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> I don't use plugins, I think
[21:00] <davmor2> jutnux: I prefer Geany for writing in
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> well a gnupg one
[21:10] <jutnux> I love java either way
[21:18] <funkyHat> Java makes me ⢁(
[21:22] <jutnux> Java is sexy.
[21:23] <MartijnVdS> Java is way too verbose for me
[21:23] <MartijnVdS> You need to create (anonymous) classes for everything because of the strict typing straitjacket
[21:24] <MartijnVdS> you can't "cheat" if you don't need that level of complexity
[21:30] <funkyHat> MartijnVdS: exactly, Java is *horribly* verbose
[23:17] <Linuxsapien> olla
[23:32] <AlanBell> hi Linuxsapien
[23:46] <Linuxsapien> AlanBell: hi
[23:47] <Linuxsapien> I want an ubuntu cloak :D
[23:48] <AlanBell> !member
[23:48] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu Membership means recognition of a significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community.  For more info see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[23:48] <AlanBell> !cloak
[23:48] <lubotu3`> To get any kind of cloak (ubuntu member or any other kind) you first need to set up your nick as detailed in this FAQ: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup -  For Ubuntu member cloaks, ask in #ubuntu-irc and provide your launchpad page, for unaffiliated ones, ask in #freenode.
[23:48] <AlanBell> you need to be a member to get an ubuntu cloak
[23:48] <AlanBell> night all o/
[23:48] <Linuxsapien> ah well, im all signed up for years with my number and everything, thanks :D