SpamapSm_3: yeah buildd's are pretty busy leading up to alpha1 on Dec 103:06
SpamapSm_3: I'm about to make them even more busy as soon as mysql 5.5 finishes building...03:06
SpamapSfound another non-deterministic test that will likely have to be disabled. :-P03:07
marcoceppiSo, I started a small collection of bash functions for this charm-helper idea. Any requests?03:37
SpamapSmarcoceppi: one that always returns an IP from a hostname or IP that is passed to it06:32
tazzhmm so i came across juju right now, dosnt puppet+mcollective solve the same problem ?10:57
noodles775tazz: I'm just a user of juju - so best to wait for one of the juju team to answer, but my impression is that mcollective helps you manage servers and clusters of servers, where as juju is about managing services and their relationships.11:18
noodles775(meant to say, I've only read docs of mcollective - it's not my area)11:18
noodles775tazz: there are probably better demo's of juju around, but I created a demo yesterday from an experiment which highlights the service-orientation:11:22
hazmatjames_w, success! re reconnoiter pkgs11:35
hazmatjames_w, hm... actually i'm a little confused, the src pkg gens 3 bin pkgs but i only see one pkg in the ppa11:40
hazmathmm.. actually that doesn't look like it actually built correctly, false success11:40
hazmatfwereade_, could you have a look at this trivial.. https://code.launchpad.net/~hazmat/juju/preserve-unit-for-external-gc/+merge/8241312:24
fwereade_hazmat, sure12:24
hazmatfwereade_, thanks12:24
fwereade_hazmat, I'm a bit wary of this given that there isn't actually any GC12:27
marcoceppiSpamapS: What about hostnames with more than one ip?12:27
hazmatfwereade_, we already have a need for gc12:27
hazmatfwereade_, its been assumed, ie if there's a state conflict at any point we have a need for gc, because there is a leftover state12:27
hazmatfwereade_, we use the topology to sync/commit changes for multi node ops12:27
fwereade_hazmat, ok, so the motivation is that we're already leaving stale crap in ZK, and we need a general solution for that, but this fixes an unrelated problem and doens't make the GC problem significantly worse?12:27
hazmatfwereade_, exactly12:28
fwereade_hazmat, ok, I'm happy12:28
hazmatfwereade_, say for example we go to create a service state, and we get a topology conflict, we end up leaving a stale service state12:28
fwereade_hazmat, yep, I've noticed an instance or two of that sort of thing12:29
hazmati know there's a bug already for it..12:29
fwereade_hazmat, cool12:30
* hazmat wishes lp would search comments12:30
roghazmat: that's interesting. could you explain how that happens?12:37
rog(leaving a stale service state, that is)12:37
hazmatrog, sure12:59
hazmatrog, so say two clients go to create a service named 'mysql' concurrently, they'll first create a service state, which is done against with a sequence node in the /services container, and both succeed, then both go to modify the topology, only one will succeed, the other will get a statechanged error13:01
hazmatbut that will leave a stale/unused service state13:02
roghazmat: can't the one that failed remove its own (stale) service state?13:02
hazmatrog, or take debug-log which currently uses zk as a storage mechanism.. those records are effectively dead after debug-log is terminated13:02
hazmatrog, its a simplification of a general problem, yes in some cases the ops could clean up after state13:03
hazmatrog, the general form though is a multi-node operation, that is 'committed' after topology state modification, the op may span apis and service states13:03
rogisn't debug-log a slightly different problem?13:03
hazmatrog, both generate zk nodes that need gc13:04
hazmatalthough the latter is indeed different since an ideal solution is to not use zk13:04
rogand it seems to me that the debug-log garbage isn't generated as a result of conflict either?13:04
hazmatrog, effectively we would need either rollback operations per mod, multi-node transactions, or gc13:05
hazmatthe former is a rather large code burden, the second is viable though also at some cost of rearchitecting,  the gc solution here is quite simple and the garbage cost neglible13:06
rogis the multi-node operation always initiated by a single client?13:06
hazmatrog, there's care taken such that the same multi-node op can be concurrent with predicatable results13:06
hazmatie. either complete success or state changed error13:07
hazmatwith errors not effecting the consideration of live changes13:07
roghazmat: i think i'm trying to ask if nodes created by more than one client can be invalidated by a single topology commit.13:08
rogby "the former" you mean getting the client to remove its own garbage after commit failure?13:09
hazmatrog i'm not sure i understand the question, a single commit either adds or removes nodes, either can invalidate other concurrent operations13:10
hazmatalthough only the add conflict scenario would leave state to be gc'd13:10
hazmatand the b) multi-node transaction capabilities are only exposed as of zk 3.413:10
rogi was just wondering if the "remove your own garbage" option was generally viable13:11
rogof course, you'd need a GC anyway in case the connection failed halfway through, leaving the garbage around.13:11
hazmatrog, indeed i did mean the post clean up of every state mod api having a parallel cleanup api is rather a large code burden13:11
hazmatrog, indeed13:11
roghazmat: how common is conflict anyway?13:13
roghazmat: i'd guess it is currently vanishingly rare, but perhaps people will start doing more concurrent topology mods in the future13:13
hazmatrog, at the moment extremely rare, its more that the system was designed for concurrency, in practice we don't really have it outside of someone using the cli programmatically13:14
hazmatthere are lots of tests around concurrent changes in the code base13:14
roghazmat: so GC is more of an academic argument for the time being13:14
hazmatrog, absolutely13:15
roghazmat: and i'd guess the node sizes are pretty small, so the amount of garbage even in bad cases will be fairly smal13:15
hazmatrog, its actually a non problem for the most part.. for large installs, the biggest issue is going to be node size limitations around topology13:15
hazmatwhich we can alleviate for 10k nodes + via compression13:16
roghazmat: i was about to suggest that13:16
hazmatrog, its potentially an issue for large and long lived installations over time, all zk nodes are effectively held in ram13:16
hazmatbut the per garbage overhead is on the order a few hundred bytes13:16
hazmatthe gc algorithm and impl is also pretty trivial13:17
rogmaybe just a way to manually initiate GC would be sufficient13:17
hazmatyeah.. or just another agent or fold into an existing privileged one (provisioning i suppose)13:18
roganother very simple agent seems fine. sleep for a day, have a look, GC as necessary, repeat13:18
rogbut i guess provisioning is already doing a kind of GC by examining running nodes and squaring that with desired topology13:19
roghazmat: anyway, thanks, that's been useful13:20
hazmatrog, indeed it is, though that's a different sort of gc.. resource gc, vs state13:33
hazmatrog, did you ever review go-new-revisions.. https://code.launchpad.net/~niemeyer/juju/go-new-revisions/+merge/7872813:46
hazmatah.. i guess so13:46
rogi'm not sure gustavo saw my response13:48
hazmatrog, hmm.. yeah. not sure.. i just pushed into the approved queue, he'll look at it prior to merge13:53
hazmatrog,  wrt to https://code.launchpad.net/~rogpeppe/juju/go-juju-initial-ec2/+merge/82669  it doesn't appear that the changes that address william's comments have been pushed14:01
roghmm, i thought i had14:01
hazmatrog, nevermind.. i see the issue now.. its an entirely new review14:02
hazmatnot linked to the old review14:02
roghazmat: yeah, and i actually have to create another one too, as it has the wrong target14:02
rogand i can't do resubmit because of an lp bug14:03
hazmatrog, yeah.. i was just noticing that14:03
hazmatits odd14:03
hazmati don't even see the resubmit link14:04
hazmatrog, did that get submitted with lbox propose -cr ?14:04
roghazmat: yes. i'm not sure the heuristics for determining branch target are quite there yet14:04
roghazmat: actually, i think i'd merged go-error-fixes into my trunk and then pushed.14:06
roghazmat: so probably the trunk remembered the wrong target14:06
rogproblem is you can't specify an explicit lp: target - you have to specify the disk location of a branch, but then the lp: target is implicit14:07
hazmatfwereade_, one more review request, could you have a look at either of jim's branches in the queue, i'll ask bcsaller to look at the other14:07
hazmatso close to an empty queue ;-)14:07
fwereade_hazmat, sure14:07
rogi still haven't worked out how to deal with the proliferation of bzr branches in a sane way14:07
fwereade_hazmat, expose-refactor?14:08
hazmatfwereade_, which ever you prefer14:08
hazmatfwereade_, expose refactor is pretty straightforward its mostly a code transplant14:08
hazmatrog, you mean you prefer the hg/git many branches in one dir?14:08
hazmatrog, there are bzr plugins to emulate that (bzr-colo)14:09
fwereade_hazmat, well then, I'll take a look at the other one, sounds a bit more interesting :)14:09
roghazmat: i don't know. i never worked with many branches before, in one dir or not.14:09
hazmatrog, but else that's pretty bot standard vcs using feature branches14:09
rogi think i get confused by the fact that there are (at least) three independently varying things about a branch: the uncommitted changes; the target; and the currently committed version.14:11
rogBTW james_w said the timeout bug may be this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/79383014:12
_mup_Bug #793830: Branch:+register-merge time out due to substring matching many tables <critical-analysis> <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/793830 >14:12
* hazmat finishes xapian indexing all the juju bugs14:14
hazmatrog, i've only see lp issues for merges a  handful of times, but they are annoying.. in this case i don't even see the link so i can't trigger the resubmit, except via url surgery14:15
roghazmat: maybe only the author of a proposal can resubmit it14:16
rogi don't really see why you can't just edit the target14:16
hazmatrog, no i can resubmit other proposals normally14:16
rogi get this link: https://code.launchpad.net/~rogpeppe/juju/go-juju-initial-ec2/+merge/82669/+resubmit14:16
rogyeah, i still get the same time out14:18
rogyay! i made a new proposal and it kept the comments around anyway.14:26
SpamapSmarcoceppi: for multiple IPs, randomly choose one14:52
marcoceppiSpamapS: cool14:59
marcoceppiI'll push these up in a bit for feedback, I don't want to get too deep15:03
SpamapSmarcoceppi: technically your resolver should be randomizing multiple-IP's .. so you could probably just return the first one.15:03
SpamapSmarcoceppi: are these bash functions that you have already used in multiple charms?15:04
marcoceppiSpamapS: Two were, the IP one I just made15:04
marcoceppiI retooled them though, to be more generic15:04
SpamapSmarcoceppi: I can make use of the IP one in the ceph charm15:05
marcoceppicool* I'll start weeding through charms in the store to see what other functions I can abstract15:06
marcoceppithen I'll just write the equivalent functions in Python15:07
marcoceppiruby, php, etc15:07
SpamapSwait wait wait15:07
SpamapSLets not reinvent configuration management. :)15:07
SpamapSThe idea is to take stuff that we can clearly see has been copy/pasted between charms, and put it into charm-helper15:08
SpamapSNot to build a new config management solution. :)15:08
SpamapSI mean15:08
SpamapSgo ahead if you really want to!15:08
SpamapSBut it could get really big, really fast, and I'd like to make sure it stays focused on things that "many" charms can use, not just a few. :)15:08
marcoceppiI tend to jump ahead rather quickly :)15:09
SpamapShadn't noticed15:09
SpamapS(I tend to overuse the !)15:09
jcastromarcoceppi: hey does the think up charm work for you?16:22
jcastroI get that relationship error I put in the bug16:22
marcoceppijcastro: It worked for me, there's a warning with charm proof but that warning is going away in the next build16:26
marcoceppiLet me find the bug...16:26
jcastroI wonder if I just hit "lxc weirdness"16:27
jcastromarcoceppi: do you have time to give the charm a review today? I figure with both you and mmims checking it we should be good16:27
marcoceppiyeah, it deployed fine - but I didn't get a chance to look into the code yesterday16:28
jcastronice nice!16:28
jcastroI think they had problems with their ec2 launcher.16:30
jcastroI can't find it on their site anymore.16:30
marcoceppijcastro: room for Juju to rule!16:30
jcastrothis will be nice for them. :)16:30
SpamapSWe should add charm bugs to the bot16:32
marcoceppijcastro: https://bugs.launchpad.net/charm-tools/+bug/89336316:32
_mup_Bug #893363: charm proof should not warn on a relation without hooks <Juju Charm Tools:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/893363 >16:32
jcastro@marcoceppi  when you investigate adding AU questions to the bots in IRC, see if we can get for example juju tagged questions mentioned by the bot in here.16:33
jcastrothat would be jawesome.16:33
jcastro<--- off to lunch16:33
jcastroSpamapS: if mims pops in before I get back can you poke him to review the thinkup charm?16:34
jcastroI'm dying to get with upstream on this one16:34
SpamapSjcastro: mmkay16:36
m_3hey... here... just in a meeting on another channel16:37
m_3yesterday george was going to go off and add in postfix... I'll check status of the charm in a bit16:37
_mup_Bug #894060 was filed: cannot restart unit agent (no unit workflow restart transition) <juju:In Progress by fwereade> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/894060 >16:39
marcoceppijcastro et al: where is the bot's code?16:43
SpamapSm_3: I was thinking about that.. if the local charm just needs to send mail.. ssmtp would be one option16:43
m_3SpamapS: I think it's gotta receive too... account validation16:46
m_3not sure though... didn't get that far with george16:46
m_3if it's just send it's a _much_ simpler dep16:46
SpamapSoh that can be much more difficult16:48
SpamapSdomains.. mx's.. meh meh meh16:48
m_3SpamapS: phracking nightmare16:50
m_3staying off of blacklists is the hardest part16:50
SpamapSon ec2 most IPs get blacklisted pretty fast from what I understand.16:51
SpamapSwhich is why they have the email api16:51
mainerrorjcastro: That would be amazing! I have the juju and charms tag set as mail subscription.16:57
fwereade_hazmat, jimbaker, bcsaller: standup?17:00
hazmatfwereade_, indeed17:00
hazmatjimbaker, bcsaller, fwereade_ invites out17:03
mainerrorThe juju documentation could use a common errors section, possibly linked to Ask Ubuntu questions with an answer to given problem or error.17:04
jimbakerjust saw the notice re standup, sounds good17:11
m_3hazmat: build was missing libprotobuf-c... I'm adding an explicit dep to the control file and trying again.17:12
hazmatfwereade_, bcsaller woot! new record 5m32s17:13
fwereade_go us!17:13
marcoceppiSo, this is what I've got so far for charm-helper lp:~marcoceppi/charm/oneiric/charm-helper/trunk17:13
marcoceppiI couldn't think of a better place to push it to17:14
hazmatm_3, if it succeeds would you mind moving it into a dedicated ppa17:14
hazmatm_3, i'm always nervous grabbing stuff from ppas with unrelated packages17:14
marcoceppier: https://code.launchpad.net/~marcoceppi/charm/oneiric/charm-helper/trunk17:14
jimbakerhazmat, looks like i saw the closing end of the standup. better sync next time17:14
m_3hazmat: sure thang17:14
hazmati ended up using an html 5 timer.. couldnt find a decent app in the repos.. for a count down timer.. http://helvetimer.com/17:14
hazmatjimbaker, yeah.. trying to keep them short and sweet and on the dot.. wasn't much to miss17:15
jimbakerhazmat, sounds like a good plan. i'm definitely up for on the dot, for the next one on monday17:16
jimbakeri'm making good progress on the ssh key mgmt is my standup report17:16
hazmatjimbaker, cool17:16
* jcastro returns from chow17:26
jcastrohey m_317:26
jcastrohe updated the charm17:26
jcastroand is doing the first thing you mentioned, wrt. debconfig postfix17:26
rogin bzr, is there a way i can change a bogus message on an old commit? (i presume not, but you never know...)17:27
hazmatrog, no17:27
m_3jcastro: cool, I'll do a review17:27
hazmatrog, bzr has immutable history view, bzr rebase is the extent of playing with it that i'm aware of17:28
roghazmat: darn. a few days ago i ran commit in the wrong directory... i knew i'd run it *somewhere* (because i had to commit again) but i've only just discovered where...17:28
hazmater. bzr rewrite plugin17:28
hazmatrog, IFF you haven't pushed it yet, you can uncommit17:29
hazmatbut you have to wind down the stack17:29
roghazmat: i've three commits sitting on top of it...17:29
hazmatrog you could try.. bzr uncommit, bzr shelve --all -n "top"... if its really important.. alternatively you can commit the inverse diff on that dir17:30
rogi guess i theoretically i could encode each delta as a patch, then wind it forwards using the patches.17:30
hazmatrog, ie bzr diff -r -2..-3 | patch -p017:31
marcoceppim_3: The charm doesn't check thinkup.zip against any hash, since it's a git repository - would it be better to just have it get cloned instead?17:31
m_3marcoceppi: no difference from a security-standpoint I think17:34
jcastrohazmat: hey does cs:charmname work yet?17:35
jcastrowhen deploying?17:35
marcoceppim_3 couldn't you do a host fingerprint validation since git would clone via SSH?17:35
marcoceppiThe fingerprint is far less likely to change compared to the hash of a tarbal17:36
m_3marcoceppi: yes, if you're going over ssh... maybe something similar when cloning over ssl17:36
m_3haven't looked at what the git client does with an ssl url... i.e., does it at least verify the cert's ok?17:37
marcoceppiI don't know, let me check17:38
SpamapSmarcoceppi: files fetched over ssh with a static key counts as cryptographically verified.17:42
SpamapSm_3: most cmdline tools seem to ignore PKI and just accept any old cert17:42
marcoceppiSpamapS: Cool, too bad Github doesn't have anonymous SSH Read access17:42
m_3SpamapS: ok17:42
* m_3 looking at what the actual charm is doing now17:43
SpamapSmarcoceppi: the alternative is to embed the zip file in the charm, and verify it by hand.17:43
SpamapSyou know.. charm get/charm getall should really verify the charms17:43
SpamapSI mean, we already talk to launchpad w/ https..17:44
SpamapSand/or ssh17:44
SpamapSso I guess its not that critical17:44
m_3marcoceppi: do you have a snippet of hash-verification of a payload?17:51
marcoceppim_3: It's wrapped into "get_file" http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~marcoceppi/charm/oneiric/charm-helper/trunk/view/head:/net.sh17:52
hazmatjcastro, no the charmstore is not operational yet17:54
jcastrohazmat: is there a tracking bug for that I can follow along with?17:56
hazmatjcastro, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/juju/+spec/formula-store17:58
mainerrorAlright. Quick question. In my weird logic, when both of my services, in this case mediawiki and mysql have the status running and have a working relation then I should be able to reach the mediawiki instance using it's public IP address. Right?17:58
jcastrojuju expose wordpress17:58
jcastrosorry, I mean mediawiki17:58
jcastroyou need to explicitly expose the service to the outside world17:59
mainerroroh god17:59
mainerrorHow did I miss that? lol17:59
mainerrorThanks. :D17:59
jcastrohey, what did it return after you inputted that?17:59
mainerror2011-11-23 18:59:16,982 INFO Service 'mediawiki' was exposed.18:00
mainerror2011-11-23 18:59:16,985 INFO 'expose' command finished successfully18:00
mainerrorI should probably mention that I'm running it off a local provider.18:01
mainerrorWhat is funny is that the public address I get is not on the same subnet.18:02
marcoceppimainerror: It's probably for the virtual network interface created on your local machine18:02
SpamapSmainerror: yeah it should be 192.168.122.xx ..18:03
jcastro"Service 'mediawiki' was exposed on 192.168.122.xxx" would be way more useful, I hate having to go back in my status and find the right IP18:04
* jcastro goes to file a bug18:04
* mainerror will confirm the bug!18:04
SpamapS+1 from me too, should be easy18:04
mainerrorSo basically I have no way to access my mediawiki instance?18:06
_mup_Bug #894094 was filed: "juju expose" should tell me exactly where a service is exposed. <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/894094 >18:07
marcoceppim_3: SpamapS it appears git uses curl and does validate SSL certificates18:07
m_3mainerror, you should be able to open 192.168.122.xx (whatever status tells you) in a browser and see mediawiki18:07
marcoceppiHowever, couldn't someone still perform a man-in-the-middle attack even through SSL?18:08
mainerrorShould I go ahead and confirm that bug?18:09
mainerrorNever mind. :)18:10
=== PandorBox is now known as MrDerp
mainerrorMhm, I can't access my mediawiki instance.18:10
=== MrDerp is now known as MisterDerp
m_3mainerror: 'juju -elocal status' should show an address associated with the mediawiki unit... (also if it's started or not)18:16
jimbaker zookeeper 3.4.0 was just released18:16
jcastrom_3: ok, so I can get to thinkup, everything worked once I did the :db thing18:19
mainerrorm_3: The address I get is, my subnet is 192.168.0.x.18:19
jcastrom_3: and according to the machine log it sent the mail, just waiting for it now, then I'll bang on the service a bit.18:19
mainerrorStatus is up, started and exposed.18:20
mainerrorI mean state, relation state and exposed state respectively.18:20
m_3mainerror: nice, ok... when you open in a browser?18:22
mainerrorIt times out after some time.18:23
m_3if that's no good, then 'ping -c4'18:24
mainerror100% packet loss.18:24
m_3what does 'juju ssh mediawiki/0' give you?18:25
mainerrorThe machine juju runs on is a VirtualBox instance of Ubuntu 11.10 Server with a bridged interface.18:25
m_3ah, thanks...18:25
m_3are you running the cli from the virtualbox instance?18:26
mainerrorWell I'm connected to the VB instance via SSH.18:26
jimbakerjcastro, re bug 894094, i'm not certain if that's meaningful or not without the status. services are exposed, not individual machines, so potentially this could mean a large list. also it's possible that any corresponding ports have not yet been opened by the charm18:27
m_3so I haven't seen juju local run on a bridged physical interface... it's always been a virtual bridge18:27
_mup_Bug #894094: "juju expose" should tell me exactly where a service is exposed. <juju:Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/894094 >18:27
hazmatmainerror, the wordpress instance is only accessible to the local machine18:28
jcastromarcoceppi: aha, that's why I got the thinkup error, the hook isn't idempotent, but it looks like m_3 caught that in the review18:28
hazmatmainerror, you'd have to route the bridge on the local machine to make it accessible to other machines on the net18:28
mainerrormhmm, I'll try lynx on that IP from the VB instance.18:28
hazmatmainerror, its mainly intended as a development tool for well local development18:28
m_3mainerror: from your VirtualBox instance (hereafter deemed "host")... you should see a libvirt std network setup... virbr, dnsmasq, etc18:29
mainerrorSo basically I should run juju on my machine directly or on a normal desktop install on the VM.18:29
m_3ah, right... you can also forward a port... something like 'ssh -L8888: VirtualBoxAddress' from your base machine18:30
mainerrorhmm, that sounds like a good plan.18:30
m_3but should be able to tell pretty quickly from the cli... 'curl' or something similar18:31
mainerrorWhoops! Alright. I've just tried lynx on that IP.18:32
mainerrorGot a 500 Server error from mediawiki.18:32
mainerrorBut it is deployed. :)18:32
mainerrorAlright. Here is what I'll do next. I'll just install juju directly on my machine and work from there. :D18:33
mainerrorLess complexity.18:34
m_3mainerror: yeah, that's probably the best plan18:34
m_3it doesn't bite18:34
m_3I typically work in VMs as much as possible myself, but lxc runs fine as long as you're setup is happy with libvirt networking18:35
m_3s/you're/your/ :)18:35
* m_3 food18:36
mainerrorI don't have any kind of special setup so in theory there should be no problem.18:36
mainerrorThanks for your help! :)18:36
marcoceppijcastro: Cool, good to know19:10
hazmathmm.. would be nice to get a vpn charm to make that scenario a little easier19:23
jcastrosomoeone on my blog had an awesome charm idea19:23
jcastroan ubuntu mirror charm19:23
jcastro"run this on an m1.large, then pay your bill."19:23
SpamapSdoes that person know that Ubuntu maintains full mirrors in EC2 already?19:25
SpamapSin every availability zone19:25
jcastrowell, for internal reasons19:26
jcastrothough, I suppose with orchestra you wouldn't really need that19:26
SpamapSIt would actually be really cool for orchestra19:26
SpamapSmost places want a local mirror that they can control19:26
jcastroubumirror is packaged19:26
jcastroit really just needs to be installed and run19:26
* jcastro pencils himself in for this one since it's simple19:27
SpamapSjuju set local-mirror releases="lucid precise"19:27
jcastroI will finish my Alice IRC today19:27
SpamapSAlice the IRC bot?19:27
jcastroweb hosted irc19:28
jcastroI saw people asking for a ZNC service for work19:28
jcastroI am like, forget that, I want a web client19:28
SpamapSOh.. there used to be an IRC bot that was slightly smarter than a tic-tac called Alice19:28
mainerrorThere is also that creepy server (AI control) of the Umbrella Corporation hive that was called Alice. That creepy little girl.19:36
mainerrorWe definitely don't need a Charm for her!19:36
marcoceppijcastro: So it's irccloud but I host it?19:43
mainerrorirccloud is awesome!19:47
marcoceppiWhere is the charm-tools package?19:59
m_3marcoceppi: https://code.launchpad.net/charm-tools20:01
jcastromarcoceppi: yeah, I like it better than irccloud actually20:14
marcoceppim_3: Thanks!20:14
SpamapSmarcoceppi: do you like that idea, to put the helpers in charm-tools?20:34
SpamapSmarcoceppi: I figure it makes sense .. they're quite related20:34
marcoceppiI'm fine with that. Does charm-tools get pulled into the environment at all on deploy?20:50
marcoceppiSpamapS: What I mean is, will we still have to copy/paste these functions out or is there a way we can have them float in the env?20:50
SpamapSno, but we'll make these separate packages from charm-tools20:50
SpamapSThey'll jus thave to be part of the install hook.20:51
SpamapSapt-get install charm-helper-sh20:51
marcoceppiah, right gotchya20:51
marcoceppiYeah, good idea about the namepsaceing too20:52
SpamapSmarcoceppi: I'd suggest branching charm-tools, and submitting a merge proposal. I'll review ASAP20:57
marcoceppiSpamapS: Yeah, that's what I'm doing now20:59
jcastrom_3: hypothetically, what kind of charm would use db-admin?21:05
marcoceppiphpmyadmin maybe?21:05
mainerrorphpPgAdmin for PostgreSQL21:06
jcastroah ok, now that's obvious to me21:07
SpamapSjcastro: I believe cloudfoundry also needs root21:08
SpamapSjcastro: since it has to create multi-tenant databases.. it pretty much pwns the box21:08
* jcastro nods21:08
jcastroSpamapS: I don't like that I have to care when executing21:08
jcastroI'd rather have db be the default21:09
jcastroand for the services that need that stuff then explicitly mention that21:09
jcastrobut I don't feel strongly enough about it to complain21:09
jcastroother than to you I mean. :)21:09
SpamapSjcastro: one could argue that db-admin is a different interface21:10
jcastroI more mean default to one interface21:10
SpamapSjcastro: since db gives you just one database...21:10
jcastro"most charms will use db so be lazy here"21:10
m_3jcastro: I think it's just a problem because mysql is so common in our examples21:11
jcastroit's just I cringe every time our deploy command adds length21:11
m_3but yeah, maybe worth splitting into a separate relation21:11
marcoceppiSpamapS: In regards to add-relationship, shouldn't juju see that the charm has no db-admin interface requirement and only show the ambiguity message when it's ambiguious?21:11
* mainerror nods21:12
m_3sorry, I mean split into a separate interfaces21:12
jcastroSpamapS: so basically my complaint is that makes "juju deploy cs:mysql" longer than it needs to be ...21:12
SpamapSmarcoceppi: they're both interface: mysql21:12
marcoceppiErr, the db-admin relationship21:13
SpamapSI think its actually a bug in the mysql charm21:13
SpamapSwe should fix it21:13
SpamapSmake it interface: mysql-root21:13
marcoceppiAh, I see. Good alternative21:14
SpamapSI don't see any downside to that21:14
SpamapSthings either need root, or they don't21:15
* SpamapS feels like the Charm Ceaser today.. "MAKE IT SO!, and bring me WINE!!"21:17
* SpamapS wanders off to find food21:17
* marcoceppi wanders off to find wine21:17
jcastroSpamapS: ok I'll file that badboy21:19
marcoceppiSo, what's the safest License for this charm-helper? MIT?21:54
mainerrorWTFPL. :D21:55
mainerrorIt does really exist, no joke. .P21:55
marcoceppiI googled just to be sure21:56
jcastrohazmat: hey before I file a bug humor me for a second21:58
* hazmat laughs @ jcastro21:58
jcastrohazmat: so at UDS I saw juan's .juju dir, he had a bunch of environment.yamls21:58
* hazmat nods21:58
jcastroand would symlink what he wants to use21:58
jcastrohow about a convenience switch function21:58
hazmatjcastro, -e21:59
jcastroson of a ....21:59
jcastrohazmat: how long has that been there?21:59
jcastroyou know what, don't tell me22:00
marcoceppijcastro: I thought you showed me that? Maybe it was m_3. I've got two environments in my file, EC2 and local22:01
hazmatjcastro, that allows picking from multiple envs in a single file, you can set a default: ${env-name} label in the file to set a default one (sans -e usage).. the multiple file thing is useful for demos to avoid showing your passwords on screen.22:02
SpamapSmarcoceppi: GPLv3 is what charm-tools is under.. simpler if you just keep it all charm-tools. *using* something is not *linking* to it.22:04
marcoceppiSpamapS: Thanks, easy enough22:05
SpamapSthe python bit may actually be linking if we do it22:05
SpamapSso LGPL might be more appropriate for that22:05
SpamapSbut, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.22:05
marcoceppifair enough22:09
marcoceppiI really wish I could figure this Ondina name thing out22:10
marcoceppion LaunchPad, any idea where I could start to diagnose this?22:11
jcastrowhat, your display name?22:11
marcoceppiYeah, I made sure whoami and launchpad login both go to marcoceppi account, but it keeps showing Ondina as the name22:12
james_wmarcoceppi, it's because the ondina team has marco@ondina.co set as the contact address22:20
james_wand that's the address that you are committing the revisions in bzr as I expect22:20
marcoceppijames_w: So? My commits come from marco@ceppi.net22:21
james_wi.e. what bzr whoami says22:21
james_woh, hmm22:21
marcoceppiMarco Ceppi <marco@ceppi.net>22:21
james_wsounds like a Launchpad bug then22:21
jcastrom_3: SpamapS: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5720/Screenshot%20at%202011-11-23%2017%3A21%3A00.png22:23
jcastrowe should try to do an office hours in a hangout22:23
marcoceppijames_w: Probably, I'm checking it out in the launchpad room22:24
m_3I like the iphone icon on there22:24
hazmatjcastro, what's the benefit of the hangout in this context/22:27
m_3jcastro: maybe let's see how irc goes first?22:28
jcastrom_3: yeah I was keeping an eye on it22:29
jcastrohazmat: more personal, high bandwidth for explaining concepts, etc.22:30
mainerrorOh that is Reto. :)22:31
marcoceppiSpamapS Seems odd, I probably shouldn't put a copyright on the net.sh charm helper, right?23:46
SpamapSmarcoceppi: it should have a license/copyright header in the file23:46
marcoceppithis is what I have now23:46
SpamapSmarcoceppi: push to a branch?23:47
marcoceppiI don't want to stain the commit with a bad header :)23:47
marcoceppiStill really green when it comes to how licenses and copyrights work23:51
SpamapSmarcoceppi: that header looks a little off, where did you get it?23:54
marcoceppiThe internet: http://stackoverflow.com/q/153489/19683223:55
SpamapSmarcoceppi: heh, you just forgot the spacing. ;)23:56
marcoceppiSpacing is important?23:56
SpamapSFor my eyes it is.. because otherwise I read every word and go "wtf? this SOUNDS ok" ..23:56
marcoceppiSo http://paste.ubuntu.com/747700/ ?23:59

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