[13:00] <raja> what
[13:02] <raja> help
[14:29] <jcastro> test
[14:59] <jcastro> *tap tap*
[14:59] <jcastro> 1 minute left
[15:00] <jcastro> Ok everyone
[15:00] <jcastro> Mark is on his way
[15:00] <jcastro> welcome to Ask Mark!
[15:01] <sabdfl> hello hello
[15:01] <jcastro> here is the intro piece: http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/12842730458/ask-mark-wednesday-23-november-1500utc
[15:01] <jcastro> this is how this will work
[15:01] <jcastro> in #ubuntu-classroom-chat you can ask questions
[15:01] <jcastro> you need to preface it with the word QUESTION:
[15:01] <jcastro> for example ...
[15:01] <jcastro> QUESTION: Mark, what is with that moustache?
[15:01] <sabdfl> it's for charity!
[15:01] <jcastro> and then the bot will pick it up and pass it along
[15:01] <jcastro> so without further delay, good morning sabdfl!
[15:02] <sabdfl> and a very generous donor, Callum MacDonald, stepped up hugely
[15:02] <sabdfl> so i will grow it even bigger
[15:02] <sabdfl> if you appreciate having a laugh at the sad state of my face, please donate generously too
[15:02] <sabdfl> and i will match your donation
[15:02] <jcastro> Where can people donate?
[15:03] <sabdfl> http://mobro.co/smonaut
[15:03] <sabdfl> of course
[15:03] <sabdfl> NEXT!
[15:03] <ClassBot> candt_ asked: I see Ubuntu is retailing in China and Portugal (great!) What release? LTS?
[15:03] <sabdfl> varies, depending on the manufacturer
[15:03] <sabdfl> we have adopted a wicked new plan for LTS updates though
[15:03] <sabdfl> so if a machine is certified with a non-LTS release, you will still be able to run it with the LTS userspace
[15:04] <sabdfl> next!
[15:04] <ClassBot> AlanBell asked: Do you really think you can compete with iOS and Android on TV/Tablet/Phone?
[15:04] <sabdfl> with your help, we have a chance
[15:04] <sabdfl> design is really important, as is our ability to deliver a platform that is perceived to be more open
[15:05] <sabdfl> i think this is vital, or client-side linux will ultimately stay limited to, shall we say, the technologically blessed
[15:05] <sabdfl> next!
[15:05] <ClassBot> AlanBell asked: If I wanted to contribute to TV/Tablet/phone, what's the best thing I can do in the community?
[15:05] <sabdfl> participate on the relevant mailing lists
[15:05] <sabdfl> participate when the sdk efforts begin, around QML and HTML5
[15:05] <sabdfl> help with unity-3d and -2d, which will feature
[15:05] <sabdfl> next!
[15:06] <ClassBot> dmj726 asked: What do you think of having an unmodified version of Software Center as a requirement for branding something as an Ubuntu Phone?  This way if a company could only brand their device as an Ubuntu Phone if it kept Software Center (with access to the Ubuntu repositories and the ability to add additional software sources).  Otherwise it would be based on Ubuntu but not a branded Ubuntu Phone.
[15:06] <sabdfl> yes, i think the android experience has taught everyone about the risks of fragmentation
[15:06] <sabdfl> i hope we can improve somewhat on that position
[15:06] <sabdfl> next!
[15:06] <ClassBot> kamilnadeem asked: What do you think of people , chastising everything Ubuntu including its users by some who consider themselves Elite, will 12.04 put an end to this (marginally)?
[15:08] <sabdfl> there are of course valid criticisms
[15:08] <sabdfl> and we can't be too thin-skinned about opinions
[15:09] <sabdfl> that said, some of the most passionate complaints are from users in two bugs, with directly opposite desires
[15:09] <sabdfl> bug (a) says an action should go left, bug (b) says it should go right
[15:09] <sabdfl> and some of the voices in each bug are unreasonably insistent on their position
[15:09] <sabdfl> the design team has to resolve those, and also has to put us ahead of the curve
[15:10] <sabdfl> we won't compete if we constantly wait for ideas to be validated elsewhere
[15:10] <sabdfl> i'm pretty proud of our record of innovatoin
[15:10] <sabdfl> tion, even
[15:10] <sabdfl> we had U1 before iCloud, or the Windows equivalents
[15:10] <sabdfl> we introduced overlay scrollbars first
[15:10] <sabdfl> we designed Unity with a single icon left launcher, and full screen search, before anybody else
[15:11] <sabdfl> Apple's launchpad, and Gnome Shell, all came later
[15:11] <sabdfl> change will always make people pissy
[15:11] <sabdfl> but i think, if we voxed you all in the channel, you would say you want the platform of the future, not one from the past
[15:11] <sabdfl> so that's what we're working on
[15:11] <sabdfl> and we do it with integrity, and care
[15:11] <sabdfl> next!
[15:11] <ClassBot> kamilnadeem asked: When will Ubuntu reach the Indian shore in the form of hardware pre installed with Ubuntu like its in Africa , Portugal?
[15:12] <sabdfl> hmmm... i think it's already pre-installed in india, from some manufacturers
[15:12] <sabdfl> dell, lenovo, and some local brands iirc
[15:12] <sabdfl> next!
[15:12] <jcastro> this one might be too localized, but giving it a shot:
[15:12] <ClassBot> Andy80 asked: I've seen that the Asus 1215P with Ubuntu preinstalled is also available in Italy from many vendors (Mediaworld, Amazon.it, e-Price ecc...) why no news about it? No advertisement ecc... is it just experimental? Thanks
[15:13] <sabdfl> I tihnk it's just becoming more normal. Best thing you can do is buy one and blog it!
[15:13] <sabdfl> next
[15:13] <ClassBot> conscioususer asked: Considering how large of a step Unity was, and the fact that it still needs polish on the desktop alone, isn't availability of resources a concern for the phone/tv/etc plans?
[15:13] <sabdfl> sure it is. all help gratefully accepted :-)
[15:14] <sabdfl> there is a steady flow of contributions, which is fantastic
[15:14] <sabdfl> there's lots we would like to fix, but must focus on the core
[15:14] <sabdfl> it's a fun project to hack on, and millions get to enjoy the result
[15:14] <sabdfl> plus, you get OMG-love
[15:15] <sabdfl> we're growing the Unity team internally, but the perfectionism of a community process cannot be beaten
[15:15] <sabdfl> so the more, the merrier
[15:15] <sabdfl> next!
[15:15] <ClassBot> dmj726 asked: Do you see integration and sharing between TVs, phones, tablets, and PCs as being critical to the success of Ubuntu on mobile devices?
[15:15] <sabdfl> yes!
[15:15] <sabdfl> next
[15:15] <ClassBot> candt_ asked: Any plans to increase 'marketing to the community' (spin?) to help heal some GUI-shock 'wounds'?
[15:15] <sabdfl> our community doesn't want spin, they want to help
[15:16] <sabdfl> and there are lots of effective ways for folk to participate and help
[15:16] <sabdfl> i see a lot more people willing to say 'hold on, stop the bitching, i love unity, and i want it to succeed'
[15:16] <sabdfl> and that's what will make a success of it
[15:16] <sabdfl> next!
[15:16] <ClassBot> kamilnadeem asked: You seem to don't care much about what opinions others form of you(as I have estimated by reading and hearing you) but why do you think people Ignore the Hard work done by You/Ubuntu for the betterment of FOSS?
[15:17] <sabdfl> why do you think i am subscribed to every comment on every bug on unity, if you don't think i care much about what people report, or comment?
[15:17] <sabdfl> it takes up a lot of my day, this approach to not caring ;-)
[15:17] <sabdfl> it's easy to say someone doesn't care about everyone, if they disagree with you
[15:18] <sabdfl> it's harder if you first acknowledge that they care as much about you as about 19 million other users
[15:18] <sabdfl> who have needs and rights too
[15:18] <sabdfl> my first responsibility is to ubuntu users
[15:18] <sabdfl> the ubuntu spirit is not about demanding that someone else make things the way you want them, is it
[15:18] <sabdfl> as our community has become more high profile, it's more tempting for people to show up and make demands
[15:18] <sabdfl> we have no need ot listen to them
[15:19] <sabdfl> none whatsoever
[15:19] <sabdfl> we need to strengthen the bonds between those of us who actually work on the project every day
[15:19] <sabdfl> trust people to lead in their part of the project
[15:19] <sabdfl> i trust the security team to make serious judgement calls, every single day
[15:19] <sabdfl> i don't need to second-guess them
[15:19] <sabdfl> i don't expect them to be perfect
[15:20] <sabdfl> but i know that getting too many opinions in there will only make it worse
[15:20] <sabdfl> similarly, on design and engineering, as a community we need to ask whether we have confidence in the process by which responsibility is allocated
[15:20] <sabdfl> then trust those to whom it is allocated
[15:20] <sabdfl> in other communities, it's OK to second-guess any decision by any member
[15:21] <sabdfl> that results in a total inability to take any serious decision in less than 5 years
[15:21] <sabdfl> and we will NOT compete with android like that
[15:21] <sabdfl> so, here's the deal: join, commit, contribute, excel, and you can expect to be trusted with serious parts of ubuntu
[15:21] <sabdfl> and you can expect that i will defend you from the chorus of naysayers, beggars and critics
[15:21] <sabdfl> next!
[15:21] <ClassBot> koolhead11 asked: Mark, when can we have visible Ubuntu certification/Training program happening 2 take on with other enterprise Linux Vendors, as people need workforce and assurance before hiring and adopting something at enterprise level
[15:22] <sabdfl> we setup a training program very early
[15:22] <sabdfl> but there was little demand
[15:22] <sabdfl> and it was too thinly spread around the world
[15:22] <sabdfl> first, we need to see substantial deployments
[15:22] <sabdfl> then the demand will be there
[15:22] <sabdfl> the good news is, enterprise adoption of ubuntu is growing steadily
[15:23] <sabdfl> people are starting to trust us, we have delivered like clockwork for seven years
[15:23] <sabdfl> help promote large scale corporate deployments, and that will create demand for training
[15:23] <sabdfl> if you have an urgent need, we can probably create something custom
[15:23] <sabdfl> next!
[15:23] <ClassBot> jussi asked: Mark, How involved are OEMs with canonical at this time in the direction of the Ubuntu phone, TV and tablet offerings?
[15:23] <sabdfl> btw, happy thanksgiving to all you yanks, tomorrow
[15:24] <sabdfl> jussi, it's easy for them to express interest at this stage, the test will be once we actually have product in hand
[15:24] <sabdfl> so for now, it's all very encouraging
[15:24] <sabdfl> but then, it would be :-)
[15:24] <sabdfl> next!
[15:24] <ClassBot> txwikinger asked: How do you think can entrepreneurs build a business model around Ubuntu in a way that it is mutually beneficial for Ubuntu and the startup?
[15:25] <sabdfl> ensure that production pieces of your ubuntu deployments  are covered by Ubuntu Advantage
[15:25] <sabdfl> and that's good enough for me
[15:25] <sabdfl> next!
[15:25] <ClassBot> dmj726 asked: Do you see Ubuntu TV as being mainly a new platform for consuming content or do you think that making new kinds of collaboration possible should be a key part of Ubuntu TV?  An example might be a group get together with their tablets and edit video on their devices with the TV as a shared screen for showing progress and enabling discussion?
[15:26] <sabdfl> the relationship between the shared screen (tv) and the personal screen (phone, tablet, pc) is v interestng, yes
[15:26] <sabdfl> next!
[15:26] <ClassBot> oly_ asked: are there plans to unify apps on these devices, something like i am viewing a youtube video on my phone can i not just move the output to my tv or to a desktop computer i have often wondered why i can not move whats on my screen to another display in a simple manner
[15:26] <sabdfl> good thinking gianlucadv, that sounds worth exploring further
[15:26] <sabdfl> next!
[15:27] <ClassBot> kamilnadeem asked: Many a people have taken aversion on you saying to compete with Android with Ubuntu (both being open source siblings), Do you consider ios and other platforms Inferior(I feel they are ;-))?
[15:27] <sabdfl> they are superior in some ways. they are less empowering, but we should recognise great work wherever it happens. smugness doesn't win friends or prizes.
[15:27] <sabdfl> next!
[15:27] <ClassBot> Pendulum asked: how do you see Ubuntu competing in the mobile device world when voice  recognition on Linux is pretty much non-existant, but voice recognition on mobile phones is becoming a feature users want more and more?
[15:28] <sabdfl> voice recognition is more a cloud service than a device feature
[15:28] <sabdfl> next!
[15:28] <ClassBot> Andy80 asked: taking in consideration all the improvements incoming to Qt (with the release of Qt5), since we could have the same (or even better) effetcs in QML than we have now in Unity-3D, all of this maintaining the compatibility with non-3D computers, don't you think that keep developing two versions of Unity is a "waste" of resources? Would not be better to concentrate the effort just on the QML/Qt version of Unity?
[15:28] <sabdfl> could be, andy. the unity-3d team need to show that it's worth keeping both versions in play, and the -2d team need to show they can deliver the slick vision we have for unity
[15:29] <sabdfl> think of it as a bit of a race. contribute where you think you can make the biggest impact
[15:29] <sabdfl> next!
[15:29] <ClassBot> kamilnadeem asked: There is this general feeling in people that Canonical doesn't care about Ubuntu's official derivatives(which I find to be a misnomer  as I am myself using Kubuntu 11.10 and loving it)?
[15:29] <sabdfl> we cannot care about everything
[15:29] <sabdfl> we devote quite alot to make the derivatives possible, but it's up to each community to step up and do the work they say they care about
[15:29] <sabdfl> next!
[15:30] <jcastro> (out of questions, waiting on the queue)
[15:30] <sabdfl> phew!
[15:30] <ClassBot> akshatj_ asked: Android or iOS?
[15:31] <sabdfl> neither, but i plan to try recent versions of both, soon
[15:32] <sabdfl> it's time for me to join the smartphone era
[15:32] <sabdfl> next!
[15:32] <ClassBot> kamilnadeem asked: Your reaction on the latest thrashing of Micro$oft by Barnes & Noble against their way of using litigation instead of Innovations philosophy?
[15:33] <sabdfl> the biggest mistake microsoft made was to decide that patents would be an effective defence against new competitors
[15:33] <sabdfl> because that stops you from really innovating yourself
[15:33] <sabdfl> so Microsoft wasted most of a decade, thinking they could use patents to defend the castle.
[15:33] <sabdfl> Meanwhile, others were innovating for real.
[15:34] <sabdfl> The whole patent system is a sham, unfortunately.
[15:34] <sabdfl> Patent authorities cannot realistically do their job; it
[15:34] <sabdfl> it's an impossible job to do.
[15:34] <sabdfl> and the patent system has slowly been twisted to do the exact opposite of its PR
[15:35] <sabdfl> it's not, as many think, a system to defend the little inventor against the big bad corporate.
[15:35] <sabdfl> Instead, it's a system to ensure the big bad corporate doesn't get any scary new competition.
[15:35] <sabdfl> Patents were invented to encourage inventors to publish their trade secrets, because society would benefit from the disclosure.
[15:36] <sabdfl> But we now allow patents on things you could never keep secret in the first place, like software and business methods and medicines.
[15:36] <sabdfl> That's insanity. Innovation happens because people solve problems, not because they might get a monopoly on it.
[15:37] <sabdfl> The reason this is not being changed is simple: legislation evolves to suit those who can influence legislators. And large patent holders tend to be influential in that regard.
[15:37] <sabdfl> next!
[15:37] <ClassBot> dmj726 asked: What are some examples of design either in the Ubuntu community, apps, or in general that have inspired you?
[15:37] <sabdfl> the novacut folks have some really interesting ideas
[15:37] <sabdfl> i like a lot of the elementary work, too
[15:38] <sabdfl> the web is really the place we should look to, and games
[15:38] <sabdfl> those are both fast-moving, agile, competitive, and unconstrained
[15:38] <sabdfl> next!
[15:38] <ClassBot> gianlucadv asked: Recently we have seen some applications migrated from python to vala. Do you think that this trend is going to continue or that python will still be the preferred language for Ubuntu-sanctioned programs?
[15:38] <sabdfl> vala is ok. Go is the future.
[15:38] <sabdfl> next!
[15:38] <ClassBot> oly_ asked: will ubuntu.developer.com develop to be usefull for existing developers quickly looks awesome but it does not seem useful if you already have applications, or are there plans to move an existing project into quickly to simplyfy development
[15:39] <jcastro> (ed: he means developer.ubuntu.com)
[15:39] <sabdfl> no, with most frameworks, if you start out doing your own thing, it's better to keep doing that
[15:39] <sabdfl> quickly is for the new guy who wants to get started, erm, quickly :-)
[15:40] <sabdfl> i would encourage you just to focus on making your apps beautiful, directed, clear, purposeful
[15:40] <sabdfl> and use whatever toolkit you think is effective and interesting
[15:40] <sabdfl> next!
[15:40] <ClassBot> brousch asked: I love Ubuntu, but prefer Gnome Shell to Unity. Are you committed to keeping Gnome Shell supported and easy to install in Ubuntu going forward?
[15:40] <sabdfl> depends how easy the Shell folks make that to achieve
[15:41] <sabdfl> i'm not committed if they decide to make it very difficult, or impossible, or to continue to say things like 'Ubuntu's overlay scrollbars are not compatible with upstream Gnome' ;-)
[15:41] <sabdfl> we worked hard to influence and improve the design of Shell, but it turned out the best way to achieve that was to lead, so we did, and will continue to do so
[15:41] <sabdfl> next!
[15:41] <ClassBot> surgemcgee asked: Is there plans to better Compiz or abondon it as the Unity OpenGL back-end? It seems disconnected and buggy.
[15:41] <sabdfl> compiz needs work, definitely
[15:42] <sabdfl> but it has by far the best rendering pipeline, which lets us deliver fullscreen effects over video, for example
[15:42] <sabdfl> it will improve, help gratefully accepted
[15:42] <sabdfl> next!
[15:42] <ClassBot> kamilnadeem asked: You busted the "Power Users don't like Unity myth" in the 12.04 UDS , how much easier will it be for customizations in 12.04 natively unlike 11.10?
[15:42] <sabdfl> we will have time to offer up some settings for unity in 12.04
[15:43] <sabdfl> there's a list of things we're keen to see
[15:43] <sabdfl> contributions of code to put those in place would be accepted
[15:43] <sabdfl> but there will always be people who are upset because they cannot make the launcher bright pink
[15:43] <sabdfl> tough
[15:43] <sabdfl> next!
[15:43] <ClassBot> blumojo_ asked: What is Unity's next step?
[15:44] <sabdfl> 12.04 LTS needs to be lovely on the desktop, and work on the new form factors will kick off
[15:44] <sabdfl> next!
[15:44] <ClassBot> kamilnadeem asked: Is there anything to be looked forward in the "codecs may be illegal in your country" as Ubuntu aims for world domination.
[15:44] <sabdfl> can't do much about the law in your country. i think the codec issue will fade as google pushes for open content
[15:44] <sabdfl> next!
[15:44] <ClassBot> gianlucadv asked: in the future, will launchpad support git?
[15:45] <sabdfl> the future is a very big place
[15:45] <sabdfl> next!
[15:45] <jcastro> (waiting on questions)
[15:46] <ClassBot> kamilnadeem asked: Do you intend on keeping the Mustache(In my opinion it looks awesome on you)?
[15:46] <sabdfl> if you guys haven't had the pleasure yet, i highly commend jorge's charm school to you :-)
[15:46] <sabdfl> hell no, this rat on my face is torture, i'm *earning* those donations!
[15:46] <sabdfl> next
[15:47] <ClassBot> vibhav asked: Why is the server version of Ubuntu one closed source?
[15:47] <sabdfl> server of u1 is closed source because we thought our chances of long term survival otherwise were nil. if you know better, go for it!
[15:47] <sabdfl> next
[15:48] <ClassBot> daubers asked: Any chance of further LDAP integration in Ubuntu and more ease of use of setting it up?
[15:49] <ClassBot> surgemcgee asked: Is there plans for a better Terminal app. i.e. Tilda or Guake?
[15:49] <jcastro> bah sorry, 2 for one!
[15:50] <jcastro> (10 minutes left in the session)
[15:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[15:51] <sabdfl> daubers, hmmm... i'm not sure on the ldap front
[15:51] <sabdfl> we're going to do a business desktop remix, because lots of people want a remix without the social bits, and with stuff we wouldn't put in the main ubuntu, like flash and pdf-reader
[15:52] <sabdfl> that sounds like a candidate for ldap work
[15:52] <sabdfl> but
[15:52] <sabdfl> remixes are just package selections, there will be no secret sauce
[15:52] <sabdfl> surgemcgee__, i would love to see guake integrated into the dash, drop them a note and see if they are interested!
[15:52] <sabdfl> next
[15:52] <ClassBot> brousch asked: Canonical has a ton of good Python programmers and is using it heavily. Who do you think has more Python code in use - Canonical or Google?
[15:53] <sabdfl> Gooooooooogle
[15:53] <sabdfl> i think they have a lot of everything :-)
[15:53] <sabdfl> next!
[15:53] <ClassBot> dscassel asked: At UDS-O you said you would work to make the case for Project Harmony to the community. Do you feel you've done that, or will you be saying more about it? And as a spokesperson for Ubuntu, what would you suggest I say to those in the community who consider Harmony harmful?
[15:53] <sabdfl> point out that, today, we have hundreds of custom agreements, few of which have been through any sort of review
[15:54] <sabdfl> Harmony is like the Creative Commons, you may not agree with all the options, but it's been widely debated, reviewed, audited and approved
[15:54] <sabdfl> pint out that iOS and android built huge developer ecosystems in a few years, while the GPL is still limited
[15:55] <sabdfl> ask them when they will be willing to consider whether free software is enough, or whether they must keep adding impossible constraints on companies that are interested in trying it
[15:55] <sabdfl> next!
[15:55] <ClassBot> candt_ asked: have you noticed that Ubuntu has dropped in the Distrowatch click ratings? (It breaks my heart to see...)
[15:55] <jcastro> (Host note: distrowatch doesn't measure usage of distros, just clicks on hits to their distribution pages on their site.) - aka. not a metric. :)
[15:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[15:55] <sabdfl> kudos to mint for the jump in ratings, i'm glad ubuntu has great derivatives, and i'm confidence unity will remain the #1 desktop environment for years to come
[15:56] <sabdfl> next!
[15:56] <ClassBot> gianlucadv asked: when will be able to buy a table with Ubuntu preinstalled?
[15:56] <jcastro> I think he means tablet.
[15:56] <jcastro> but who knows, tables!
[15:56] <sabdfl> :-)
[15:56] <sabdfl> gianlucadv, you'll see developer previews first, and there will be opportunities to help
[15:57] <sabdfl> next
[15:57] <ClassBot> vibhav asked: majority (70% to 80%) of people in Ubuntu community are still under the impression that Ubuntu is a Windows alternative; just judging from the GUI and doing everything from the GUI; they dont even know the difference between Linux and Ubuntu. What do you plan to do to resolve that?
[15:57] <sabdfl> i don't know the difference between fuel diesel and jet-A1, but i enjoy cars and planes
[15:57] <sabdfl> we can't expect to succeed, if we define success as making people care about the same things we do
[15:58] <sabdfl> some people are passionate about lichens
[15:58] <sabdfl> they know a lot more about lichens than i do
[15:58] <sabdfl> i hope they aren't offended if I enjoy walking through mountains with beautiful lichen patterns
[15:58] <sabdfl> and don't want to know the difference between 'em all
[15:59] <sabdfl> we should celebrate users of free software, not be grumpy if they don't decide to grow a beard and learn the free software song
[15:59] <sabdfl> last one!
[15:59] <ClassBot> cyrildz asked: anything about a new icon theme for Precise ?  the actual icon-theme look very out ofplace with the modern look  of Unity
[16:00] <sabdfl> yes, i agree, we need a new icon theme
[16:00] <sabdfl> we have agreed to do a proper study on iconography, with the university of reading
[16:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/23/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
[16:00] <sabdfl> and lay out a roadmap for a new icon set, which we will welcome participation
[16:01] <sabdfl> phew
[16:01] <jcastro> ok that's all we have for today
[16:01] <sabdfl> thanks all!
[16:01] <jcastro> thanks everyone for participating
[16:01] <jcastro> and we'll see you next time
[16:01] <jcastro> thanks sabdfl!
[16:01] <jcastro> if you're a sysadmin and are looking for more IRC workshops, check out our juju charm school session next friday! https://juju.ubuntu.com/CharmSchool
[16:13] <ali1234> jcastro: will that explain to me what juju is and why i would want to use it?
[16:13] <jcastro> that session is for writing juju charms
[16:13] <jcastro> let me get you more general info
[16:13] <ali1234> i just read the FAQ
[16:14] <ali1234> it didn't answer either of my questions :(
[16:14] <jcastro> what questions do you have?
[16:14] <ali1234> what is juju and why would i want to use it?
[16:14] <jcastro> juju is a deployment tool for the cloud
[16:15] <jcastro> so if let's say you want to deploy a hadoop cluster
[16:15] <ali1234> ideally i would like it explained without using any of the follwng words: sevice, deployment, orchestration, cloud
[16:15] <jcastro> it's like apt-get, but for a cloud instead of one machine
[16:15] <jcastro> ok
[16:15] <jcastro> so let's say you want to install wordpress.
[16:15] <jcastro> you do
[16:15] <jcastro> juju bootstrap
[16:16] <jcastro> juju deploy wordpress
[16:16] <jcastro> juju deploy mysql
[16:16] <jcastro> juju add-relation wordpress mysql (this configures each one to the other)
[16:16] <jcastro> then juju expost wordpress
[16:16] <jcastro> er, sorry
[16:16] <jcastro> juju expose wordpress
[16:16] <jcastro> to open it to the world, and that's it
[16:17] <ali1234> doesn't apt-get already do the majority of that stuff?
[16:17] <jcastro> no
[16:17] <ali1234> not that i ever installed wordpress
[16:17] <jcastro> it install it, but the confiuguration and all that you still have to do
[16:17] <ali1234> but eg. phpmyadmin - apt-get install it, and it works
[16:17] <jcastro> plus, apt does it per machine
[16:17] <jcastro> now, let's say I need to scale out
[16:17] <jcastro> I can do
[16:17] <jcastro> juju deploy haproxy
[16:18] <jcastro> juju add-relation wordpress haproxy
[16:18] <jcastro> and then just
[16:18] <jcastro> juju add-unity wordpress
[16:18] <jcastro> ugh, sorry, typo, juju add-unit wordpress
[16:18] <jcastro> and I will have a load balanced wordpress install
[16:18] <jcastro> if I do another juju add-unit wordpress I have three instances now
[16:19] <stefano-palazzo> that's the last straw. I have to try it now.
[16:19] <ali1234> where do the "units" come from?
[16:19] <jcastro> whatever you have
[16:19] <jcastro> EC2, openstack, bare metal.
[16:19] <ali1234> (don't say "the cloud")
[16:19] <jcastro> yes, "the cloud"
[16:19] <ali1234> ok, but does it set them up for me or what?
[16:20] <jcastro> for ec2 you need to put your AWS credentials in a file
[16:20] <ali1234> or do they have to be preexisting virtual machines that i have access to?
[16:20] <jcastro> and it just spins up instances
[16:20] <ali1234> ok, that's neat
[16:20] <jcastro> for openstack it's a bit complicated
[16:20] <jcastro> you use juju to deploy openstack on bare metal and then juju again to put stuff on top of that
[16:20] <jcastro> but it's not so bad, an experienced sysadmin can probably do that in 2-3 hours.
[16:21] <jcastro> and for bare metal you just need an orchestra server
[16:21] <jcastro> it will go, turn on a machine, install  the OS on it, and then whatever it needs depending on the service you deployed.
[16:21] <ali1234> so a "charm" is the script that makes juju know how to deal with an app like wordpress?
[16:21] <jcastro> right
[16:21] <ali1234> like a deb control file?
[16:22] <jcastro> it's basically the same script a sysadmin might have laying around to "deploy mediawiki" or whatever they deploy a bunch of times
[16:22] <jcastro> but yeah, a control file might be a good description too
[16:24] <ali1234> jcastro: thanks :)
[16:24] <jcastro> wait
[16:24] <jcastro> the best part
[16:24] <jcastro> let's say after a while you have like, 4 mysql's running
[16:24] <jcastro> and you want phpmyadmin
[16:24] <jcastro> you can just
[16:25] <jcastro> juju deploy phpmyadmin
[16:25] <jcastro> juju add-relation phpmyadmin mysql
[16:25] <jcastro> and then the mysql machines will get phpmyadmin
[16:25] <jcastro> done, and done.
[16:25] <jcastro> or, deploy and add nagios
[16:25] <ali1234> but only if someone writes a charm that does that...
[16:25] <jcastro> (note, I don't think we have a charm for phpmyadmin)
[16:26] <jcastro> yeah but we already have a bunch
[16:26] <ali1234> i can't see one on the list
[16:26] <jcastro> http://charms.kapilt.com/charms
[16:26] <jcastro> this is what we have so far
[16:26] <jcastro> but we're getting there!
[16:43] <fanys> hi everybody !
[17:01] <vibhav> hi guys