[01:34] <RAOF> Hm.  That's not a test, but it is a nice demonstration of how the nvidia drivers can fail :)
[01:39] <TheMuso> heh
[03:00] <robert_ancell> RAOF, um, is xinerama undocumented?
[05:06] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Xinerama is basically server-internal; it wouldn't surprise me to learn that it's undocumented.
[05:06] <robert_ancell> RAOF, yeah, I found out they were going to document it but gave up in the end now its obsolete
[05:07] <robert_ancell> it's pretty simple though
[05:07] <robert_ancell> RAOF, Xinerama = 1 screen with xinerama virtual screens right?
[05:07] <robert_ancell> and XRANDR = n screens each with n virtual screens (or monitors in GDK language)
[05:08] <RAOF> Not really; there's still only one protocol screen in XRandR.
[05:08] <RAOF> Xinerama is still around for the multi-GPU case - you have a single protocol screen and rendering etc gets duplicated across all physical devices.
[05:09] <robert_ancell> RAOF, so to use Xinerama/XRANDR you get rid of the multiple screen stuff in the connect message?  i.e. there can only be :0, no :0.0, 0.1...
[05:09] <RAOF> You won't get :0.0 :0.1, etc out of an XRandR setup.
[05:09] <RAOF> I'm less certain about a Xinerama setup.  Maybe you will?
[05:10] <robert_ancell> RAOF, looking at the protocol I don't think you can
[05:10] <RAOF> However, if you're only interested in compiz then you don't need to care; Xinerama implies software rendering.
[05:10] <robert_ancell> RAOF, well, we will need tests for compiz with xinerama, with randr to check it handles these cases correctly
[05:12] <RAOF> I guess there are two questions here - the Xinerama hints, which are still used with randr, and the Xinerama span-a-desktop-across-multiple-gpus thing.
[05:13] <RAOF> The latter you shouldn't need to care about; Unity just won't load there because GL doesn't work.
[05:13] <robert_ancell> RAOF, that's the rendering side, it's not exposed on the protocol how the rendering is actually done
[05:13] <robert_ancell> RAOF, I'm going to look at how hard it will be to fake that :)
[05:13] <robert_ancell> RAOF, it's just one /dev device right?
[05:14] <RAOF> Um, I've lost context.
[05:14] <RAOF> What's just one /dev device?
[05:14] <robert_ancell> RAOF, to support direct rendering I just have to intercept the client trying to open a file in /dev right?
[05:15] <RAOF> Yes, that'd be right.
[05:23] <pitti> Good morning
[05:27] <TheMuso> Morning pitti.
[05:30] <pitti> hey TheMuso, how are you?
[05:30] <pitti> TheMuso: did you happen to try multi-arch-ification of the at-spi packages? any problems in GTK for this?
[05:31] <TheMuso> pitti: There doesn't seem to be any problem so far with my testing.
[05:31] <pitti> oh, you did, just saw it on -changes@; nice!
[05:31] <pitti> TheMuso: I haven't uploaded GTK to Debian yet, I want to wait until the current one goes to testing
[05:32] <TheMuso> Right.
[05:32] <pitti> then merging or even syncing sohuld be eaier
[05:32] <pitti> easier
[05:32] <TheMuso> Yep.
[05:36] <pitti> jbicha: hey Jeremy
[05:36] <pitti> jbicha: do you have a particular attachment to meta-gnome3, i. e. do you want to merge it?
[05:37] <pitti> otherwise I'll do it now, as it's uninstallable due to libgail-3-common going away
[05:38] <pitti> jbicha: (the hamster-applet diff can go away now, I think)
[06:14] <jbicha> pitti: you're welcome to do the merge if you like :)
[06:38] <didrocks> good morning
[06:39] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[06:39] <pitti> didrocks: congratulations for landing the unity tarmac setup!
[06:40] <didrocks> pitti: heh, thanks :)
[06:41] <didrocks> pitti: now, dx has to fix make check as make check in unity is failing :)
[06:41] <didrocks> but all others 14 components seems to pass
[06:43] <pitti> nice
[06:43] <pitti> didrocks: does that merger actually enforce writing tests for new code
[06:44] <pitti> ?
[06:45] <didrocks> pitti: not yet, but that will be a tarmac plugin I plan to write (for now, let's have the basic working), that will be fairly trivial
[06:45] <didrocks> pitti: basically, I'll write a plugin forcing linking to a bug, and having new tests
[06:46] <didrocks> pitti: see the "Future improvments" section
[06:48] <pitti> didrocks: "fairly trivial" sounds like an understatement, though :)
[06:49] <pitti> well, there are certainly many commits which don't need changing the tests
[06:49] <pitti> a whole MP should certainly at least touch it, of course, unless it's a kind of "doc cleanup" (where you have that override tag)
[06:50] <pitti> but we also had lots of "change the design" FFEs/changes which can't be covered by tests
[06:50] <pitti> (grid layout, icons, colors, etc.)
[06:50] <pitti> so maybe something like "if the MP changes N lines of actual code (.cpp), test suite must at least change by N/5 lines" or similar heuristics?
[06:51] <pitti> ah, no; design changes are implemented in code, too
[06:51] <pitti> didrocks: but anyway, for now it's probably more a socially enforced thing :)
[06:54] <pitti> robert_ancell: hey Robert, how are you?
[06:54] <pitti> robert_ancell: so you landed Gunnar's language selector lightdm changes in precise?
[06:54] <pitti> robert_ancell: there's https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/oneiric/lightdm/lang-chooser/+merge/83031 for oneiric, I wondered how you would like to handle this
[06:55] <pitti> robert_ancell: should I do the review/merge, do you want to, do you think we should let this mature in precise for a bit?
[07:00] <didrocks> pitti: sorry, was merging some branch
[07:00] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, I still want to do the heuristic of "N line of changes, M lignes of tests"
[07:01] <didrocks> pitti: with the override tag, but reporting the result somewhere to prevent abuses
[07:42] <mvo> pitti: silly question, but who can set priorities for a blueprint? it seems like I can't even though I'm the approver https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/consumer-p-software-center-enhancements
[07:42] <mvo> (this one is a example :)
[07:42] <pitti> mvo: I'm not sure, ~ubuntu-drivers perhaps?
[07:43] <pitti> at least that _should_ be the team which can
[07:43]  * mvo looks
[07:43] <pitti> mvo: try again now?
[07:43] <pitti> mvo: I added you
[07:44] <mvo> \o/
[07:44] <mvo> thanks, I can now!
[07:44]  * mvo hugs pitti
[07:44] <pitti> mvo: SUPAPOWAHS!
[07:44]  * pitti hugs mvo back
[07:44] <mvo> http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/superman-returns7/sr-poster2.jpg
[07:45] <didrocks> waow, so much power for mvo :)
[07:46] <pitti> *shrug* he could always upload something to precise which will silently click the buttons in my browser for him :)
[07:46] <didrocks> pitti: I'm curious, if there is a promotion in main for adding a build-dep to a package, but then, the binary packages are not supposed to be installed anywhere, should I still need to put in a seed like supported? or the fact that it's a build-dep of a package in main is enough to not shown in component-mismatched?
[07:46] <pitti> the powers of being root on millions of machines
[07:46] <didrocks> yeah, that's frightening :)
[07:47] <pitti> didrocks: those packages should explicitly _not_ be seeded
[07:47] <micahg> pitti: there was a drive to empty that team ( no pun intended )
[07:47] <pitti> didrocks: indeed, main is closed under depends, recommends, and build-depends
[07:47] <didrocks> pitti: excellent, thanks! :)
[07:47] <pitti> micahg: I thought we wanted to make the purpose of it more explicit, i. e. use it for planning (blueprints mainly)
[07:48] <pitti> in the past it had a whole lot of other privs, like bug targetting etc, but that either already went a way, or is meant to be
[07:48] <micahg> pitti: i'm not sure of all the details, but uds-organizers is a member of drivers so it seems that's a part of it
[07:49] <pitti> micahg: ah, that could be indeed
[08:43] <rodrigo_> morning
[08:45] <didrocks> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
[08:46] <rodrigo_> bonjour didrocks
[08:50] <pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
[08:51] <rodrigo_> hi pitti
[09:15] <pitti> seb128: please ignore the current retracer crash; flaw in my new client-side duplication logic, have the fix ready now
[09:15] <pitti> seb128: it -- OMG! -- detected an actual duplicate
[09:16] <pitti> (the previous logic assumed that they would not be actually uploaded)
[09:16] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:16] <seb128> ;-)
[09:19] <pitti> working again now
[09:24] <glatzor> a morning seb128 pitti mvo rodrigo_
[09:25] <rodrigo_> hi glatzor
[09:25] <rodrigo_> and seb128
[09:28] <didrocks> hey seb128
[09:30] <mvo> hey glatzor!
[09:31] <seb128> hey glatzor didrocks rodrigo_
[09:31] <seb128> hey mvo pitti
[09:31] <mvo> hey seb128
[09:31] <rodrigo_> hey seb128, mvo :)
[09:31] <mvo> hello rodrigo_
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> good morning
[09:33] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[09:34] <seb128> how is everybody doing today?
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> good, i think :)
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[09:41] <seb128> chrisccoulson, quite good thanks ;-)
[09:47] <seb128> didrocks, congrats on the dx landing infrastructure work
[09:47] <seb128> looks great by reading your detailed email
[09:47] <seb128> didrocks, thanks for the email btw, nice to see people giving details about what they are doing ;-)
[09:47] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, I think details was needed, despite the length of it :)
[09:48] <didrocks> seb128: and thanks! :)
[10:03] <glatzor> pitti, python-packagekit, libpackagekit-glib2-14 and gir1.2-packagekitglib-1.0 need to go through the full MIR process again?
[10:04] <glatzor> pitti, I would like to see that the session indicator is ported to PackageKit
[10:05] <seb128> glatzor, what's the issue with the current code? is the aptdaemon interface it's using going to be dropped?
[10:05] <glatzor> pitti, aptdaemon doesn't provide the "show me if there are updates" method natively. So they made a kind of hack by simulating a system upgrade after each (!) finished transaction
[10:06] <seb128> oh ok
[10:07] <seb128> glatzor, well, knowing dx it will probably take until after feature freeze for them to work bug fixes or that sort of cleanups
[10:07] <chrisccoulson> lol
[10:08] <seb128> chrisccoulson, what part of that log is a lol one? ;-) (I was not really joking for dx)
[10:10] <chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, i thought you were joking. aren't we meant to be fixing that this cycle? (ie, not breaking everything and then waiting until after feature freeze to fix everything)
[10:10] <seb128> chrisccoulson, well, their code is hackish but sort of work
[10:10] <seb128> we said we wouldn't let them land broken code yes
[10:11] <seb128> but knowing them I doubt they will rework code which "works" before feature freeze
[10:11] <seb128> though I'm happy to be proven wrong ;-)
[10:17] <glatzor> seb128, pitti by design aptdaemon was a solution which did not provide any "query" methods since we did all of those in the client application
[10:18] <glatzor> seb128, pitti but the packagekit dbus interface has got the UpdatesChanged signal to notify clients when it is a good time to query for updates. since I implemented the pk interface this was a low hanging fruit
[10:18] <seb128> glatzor, can you open a bug about that against indicator-session?
[10:19] <seb128> glatzor, we will get assigned and triaged
[10:19] <seb128> but I can't promise that dx will fix it soon
[10:19] <seb128> they tend to try to land their features first and look at bugs fixing after feature freeze by experience
[10:33] <pitti> glatzor: if those are just new binaries, no MIR necessary
[10:45] <glatzor> pitti, packagekit moved to universe - perhaps since it isn't used by kubuntu anymore
[10:45] <glatzor> pitti, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportPackagekit
[10:45] <pitti> glatzor: right, the existing MIR is still valid
[10:45] <pitti> we just need somethign that pulls it back in, i. e. I figure a dependency
[10:49] <glatzor> pitti, thanks. fine.
[12:06] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, it's really bad that this is considered news: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/firefox-8-finally-lands-in-ubuntu-11-10/ :(
[12:15] <rodrigo_> hmm, any python expert -> doesn't python have sethostname? I can't find it in any module
[12:43] <pitti> rodrigo__: hm, according to http://bugs.python.org/issue10866 it was added in February
[12:44] <rodrigo__> pitti, ok, guess I was finding outdated pages
[12:44] <pitti> but it doesn't seem to be in the release yet
[12:44] <rodrigo__> ok :(
[12:45] <pitti> rodrigo__: subprocess.call(['hostname', '...']) ?
[12:45] <rodrigo__> yeah
[13:05] <mvo> rodrigo__: http://paste.ubuntu.com/746995/plain/ <- this will work too
[13:05] <rodrigo__> mvo, right, thanks!
[13:08] <mvo> I love ctypes, its a bit like a gun with no safety catch, but very useful at times
[13:13] <rodrigo__> mvo, :)
[13:15] <rodrigo__> lunch time, bbl
[15:10] <seb128> Sweetshark, hi, is bug #749986 a "known issue" for you? do you know if it's a theme issue or unity issue or gtk issue?
[15:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 749986 in libreoffice "Resizing LO window from bottom right brings up pop-up and undesirable effects" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/749986
[15:11] <seb128> it seems it has to do with the grips added to gtk and the theme from the comment
[15:11] <seb128> seems also the sort of bug we should fix in this cycle
[15:18] <seb128> Sweetshark, seems its not wm dependent, likely libreoffice is trying to do handle the gtk widgets itself and doing it wrongly
[15:21] <seb128> pitti, \o/
[15:22] <pitti> seb128: what did you do?
[15:22] <ogra_> gymnastics :)
[15:22] <seb128> pitti, me? nothing. you, "apport-request-retrace" \o/
[15:22] <pitti> aah ;)
[15:23] <seb128> pitti, there is small potential confidentiality issue in doing things that way though, not sure if that's concrete enough to be an issue though
[15:23] <seb128> pitti, i.e that will add debug retracing to a public bug without triager verifications right?
[15:23] <pitti> seb128: right, if the master bug gets public and teh dupe has confidential data in the stack trace
[15:24] <seb128> ok
[15:42] <Sweetshark> seb128: cant reproduce here with fluxbox and libreoffice-gtk installed
[15:42] <Sweetshark> seb128: so I wouldnt rule out unity there.
[15:43] <seb128> Sweetshark, it happens under gnome-shell or unity-2d
[15:43] <seb128> Sweetshark, did you try clicking on the triangle inside the libreoffice dialog? i.e not exactly in the corner itself
[15:44] <Sweetshark> seb128: heh, there is no such triangle on fluxbox.
[15:45] <seb128> Sweetshark, that has nothing to do with fluxbox
[15:45] <seb128> though it has to do with the gtk theme
[15:45] <seb128> do you use the ubuntu gtk theme under fluxbox?
[15:46]  * Sweetshark logs into unity.
[15:48] <Sweetshark> seb128: I can reproduce it with unity and default theming.
[15:48] <seb128> it happens the same way under unity-2d or gnome-shell
[15:49] <seb128> so it's not unity
[15:53] <Sweetshark> seb128: yep, I didnt hit close enough to the corner. I can reproduce with unity2d, xfwm4 and fluxbox too
[15:54] <seb128> Sweetshark, great ;-)
[15:54] <seb128> Sweetshark, note that added those grips to gtk2 is an Ubuntu patch
[15:55] <Sweetshark> seb128: also reproducable without ubuntu/debian patches on libreoffice-master (pre-3.5)
[15:56] <Sweetshark> seb128: ah, so nobody else noticed because we tried something extra special again? ;)
[15:59] <seb128> Sweetshark, right
[16:00] <seb128> Sweetshark, well that feature is in gtk3, we just backported it to gtk2
[16:01] <Sweetshark> seb128: ah, thats nice to know to raise interest in it upstream. Thanks!
[16:06] <seb128> Sweetshark, yw
[16:09] <didrocks> Sweetshark: hey, I think you should discuss with seif or mhr3 about libroffice zeitgeist datasource integration
[16:10] <Sweetshark> didrocks: woha! under which stone did we hide that action item ;)
[16:11] <didrocks> Sweetshark: I think you should just boostrap the discussion
[16:11] <didrocks> Sweetshark: we will have some datasources for gedit and totem already
[16:11] <Sweetshark> didrocks: but sure, if it gets stuff going ...
[16:11] <didrocks> Sweetshark: I think for libro, it's just a question giving guidance to the zg team :)
[16:12]  * Sweetshark notes a todo
[16:12] <didrocks> thanks Sweetshark :)
[16:15] <seif> didrocks, i could work on libreoffice too
[16:16] <didrocks> I'm sure Sweetshark will help you on that! :)
[16:21] <pitti> good night everyone!
[16:22] <pitti> didrocks: hah, new zeitgeist finally uploaded \o/
[16:23] <seif> pitti, u know what rocks about it
[16:23] <didrocks> pitti: good night pitti! Yeah, I shot it this time so that it's uploaded
[16:23] <didrocks> pitti: 3 strikes, always the 3rd works :)
[16:23] <seif> its faster, less memory and starts up nicely
[16:23] <pitti> seif: killall python?
[16:23] <pitti> seif: yeah, that's why I pestered didrocks about uploading it yesterday already :)
[16:23] <seif> pitti, well we have one python process remaining
[16:23] <pitti> can't wait to try it
[16:23] <seif> but it depends on Mikkel
[16:24] <didrocks> pitti: I have the impression that the long delay to close was due to zg as well
[16:24] <didrocks> pitti: my session shutdown is way faster now
[16:24] <didrocks> seb128: FYI ^
[16:24] <pitti> oh, nice! I never had that, my machine just takes ages to actually power off (or doesn't at all)
[16:24] <didrocks> (well, for a week already, as I installed it the day i uploaded it the first time)
[16:25] <pitti> aaanyway, really off now, cu tomorrow!
[16:25] <didrocks> well, s/I uploaded/I first tried to upload…
[16:25] <didrocks> pitti: see you :)
[16:25] <seb128> didrocks, nice
[16:44] <Sweetshark> seif: lets chat about it tommorrow, gotta go to the gym now ...
[17:20]  * rodrigo__ eod's, later all
[17:21] <seb128> rodrigo__, 'night, btw can you reply on that proxy bug tomorrow
[17:21] <seb128> ?
[17:22] <seb128> (just mentioning it now while I think about it)
[17:22] <rodrigo__> seb128, I already commented iirc
[17:22] <rodrigo__> I'm working on a fix in the branch where I'm doing the systemd interfacesa
[17:23] <rodrigo__> seb128, but anyway, have to go now, bbl :)
[17:23] <seb128> rodrigo__, see you!
[17:23] <didrocks> see you rodrigo__
[17:23] <seb128> rodrigo__, ok, we can discuss it tomorrow ;-)
[18:40] <mterry> Who do I bug about problems with the wiki?   A page just got deleted when I tried to edit it...  I'd like to see if there's a backup somewhere
[18:41] <seb128> mterry, what page was that?
[18:42] <seb128> mterry, you should try the is channel I guess (not sure how it's named)
[18:44] <mterry> seb128, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Usertagging
[18:44] <mterry> it's gone!
[18:46]  * kenvandine heads out for a doctor's appointment, be back in a couple hours
[18:46] <seb128> mterry, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Usertagging?action=info
[18:47] <seb128> mterry, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Usertagging?action=recall&rev=13
[18:47] <seb128> mterry, you can at least do that
[20:49] <nook> Is it possible that the global menu of Unity allways show the menu items? I dont want to hover the menu to see the items... That makes me crazy :(
[20:53] <mterry> nook, fyi you can also hold alt to see them
[20:55] <nook> Ok thanks, that helps to find the right way with the cursor... But no way to show allways the items :(
[21:07] <seb128> ok, precise hates me it seems
[21:07] <seb128> hey mterry, is there any chance you could look at the shotwell ftbfs there? ;-)
[21:08] <seb128> nook, do you use the menus that much? you can try to uninstall indicator-appmenu if you don't like menus to be exported
[21:11] <nook> i like the global menu... i only want to see the items all the time^^
[21:15] <mterry> seb128, thought shotwell was building...
[21:15] <seb128> mterry, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shotwell/0.11.6-0ubuntu1
[21:16] <mterry> seb128, stop breaking things!
[21:16] <seb128> mterry, well I just uploaded a new version that doesn't change anything in the build system, I blame precise moving under my feet!
[21:16] <kenvandine> seb128, and we kept telling you the upgrade to precise was smooth :)
[21:16] <seb128> mterry, but but but, you told me that you would do desktop work if that was build issues! ;-)
[21:17] <mterry> :)
[21:17] <mterry> seb128, I'll look at it in a bit
[21:17] <seb128> mterry, thanks
[21:17] <seb128> well I did a first step to precise today, I set up the sources for it and grabed cdbs and a few other things
[21:17] <seb128> tomorrow I might do a partial upgrade of desktop stuff ;-)
[21:18] <seb128> I'm always scared of updating to the new xorg or kernel :p
[21:18] <mterry> seb128, so cautious!  take a page from pitti's book  :)
[21:18] <kenvandine> i used do-release-upgrade
[21:18] <kenvandine> nice and smooth :)
[21:18] <seb128> those brave men
[21:18] <mterry> seb128, higher versions means they're better!  :)
[21:18] <seb128> jumping in unstable like that
[21:19] <kenvandine> mterry, that is what i keep hearing :)
[21:19] <seb128> you can't understand, I come from Debian where dist-upgrading to unstable means something :p
[21:20] <seb128> but maybe the world changed during those 10 years
[21:20] <mterry> :)
[21:20] <TheMuso> I did a fresh install of precise, as I still keep my Oneiric install around just in case something happens to precise. But since installing precise, I haven't had any major dramas.
[21:20] <mterry> seb128, remember, this is just dist-upgrading into testing
[21:21] <seb128> mterry, not sure that's any better than unstable, testing is where when something breaks it takes a week to get it fixed ;-)
[21:21] <seb128> but yeah, gotcha, I'm going to update tomorrow
[21:22] <mterry> seb128, don't worry, us +1ers are on the case!
[21:22] <seb128> if something breaks you will keep hearing me daily until it's fixed!
[21:22] <seb128> you can ask chrisccoulson, I can do "is it fixed yet" poking every hour during a whole UDS (or almost that ;-)
[21:22]  * mterry blocks seb128
[21:23] <chrisccoulson> lol
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> mterry, just remember not to buy seb128 a beer in budapest!
[21:24] <seb128> :-(
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> heh
[21:24] <seb128> why so much hating!
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> :P
[21:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson, your twitter description say you are an happy man, not a hater :p
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> lol
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> it's a lie!
[21:25] <seb128> yeah, I noticed, I got fooled again it seems!
[21:25] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[21:25] <seb128> one day I will stop trusting what is written on the internet
[21:25] <seb128> ;-)
[21:25] <seb128> chrisccoulson, btw not wanting to bother you with work but I think tb notifications behave weirdly for me
[21:26] <seb128> waiting to get some extra emails to say, I usually read the summaries in the bubble and not the title but I think the title mentioned some thousand new emails received when I had like 5 new bug emails
[21:27] <seb128> is the title showing the box count rather than the unread count?
[21:27] <chrisccoulson> not sure about that :)
[21:27] <mterry> So how did the Chuck meme start?
[21:28] <chrisccoulson> ask jono :)
[21:28] <chrisccoulson> wow, i was just watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pghA1XUaxxU
[21:28] <chrisccoulson> pretty incredible!
[21:30] <seb128> indeed
[21:40] <TheMuso> Yeah, I heard about that in the news the other day, but thats the first footage I've seen.
[21:42] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i can't believe that the pilot actually walked away from that
[21:42] <chrisccoulson> he's one lucky dude!
[21:43] <TheMuso> Hell yeah.