[01:13] has anyone here successfully mounted an amazon s3 bucket in ubuntu 11.10? [01:32] dissipate: "mounted an amazon s3 bucket" ... with what software? [01:33] erichammond, s3fs [01:33] erichammond, that's what i tried to do it with, but i'm open to other options [01:33] dissipate: Then, yes. I have used s3fs on Ubuntu 11.10. [01:34] erichammond, do you have the scripts you used to set it up by any chance? [01:35] dissipate: sudo /usr/local/bin/s3fs -o url=https://s3.amazonaws.com -o allow_other $bucket $mountpoint [01:36] erichammond, i mean the scripts you used to install s3fs [01:38] erichammond, i just tried that command, it didn't work. :( [01:38] dissipate: The $mountpoint directory must exist. You need to have set up /etc/password-s3fs correctly. The bucket must exist. [01:39] dissipate: svn checkout http://s3fs.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ s3fs && ( cd s3fs; ./autogen.sh; ./configure; sudo make install ) [01:39] dissipate: Expand on "didn't work" [01:40] erichammond, i did all that. [01:40] mount point exists, /etc/password-s3fs is there with my credentials [01:43] dissipate: Elaborate on "didn't work" [01:44] erichammond, i get no error and the bucket mount doesn't show up. [01:44] dissipate: What do you mean by "the bucket mount doesn't show up"? [01:45] erichammond, i went into /mnt and there is nothing there. [01:45] i mounted into /mnt [01:45] dissipate: So /mnt was the mountpoint? [01:45] dissipate: or /mnt/somedirectory ? [01:45] it appears s3fs can connect to s3 to some extent, because when i tried a bogus bucket it had an error. [01:46] /mnt [01:46] dissipate: Were the directories and files inside the bucket created through s3fs or through some other process? [01:47] erichammond, i created them through the AWS user interface. [01:47] dissipate: Are there any keys in the bucket that do NOT contain a slash (/)? [01:47] erichammond, no, the bucket has some directories [01:48] dissipate: All files are in subdirectories? [01:49] dissipate: Pick a subdirectory with a file and run: mkdir -p /mnt/PATH/TO/SUBDIRECTORY [01:49] dissipate: Then look in that subdirectory to see if the files are visible. [01:50] erichammond, ok, let me try [01:51] erichammond, well, it's mounted because i created a directory in /mnt and it showed up as an empty file in my S3 bucket! [01:52] erichammond, i created the subdirectory and the files are showing up now! what is happening? [01:53] s3fs needs to have a special key in the S3 bucket for each subdirectory before it can see files in that subdirectory. [01:53] 'night [01:54] erichammond, thanks for the info. do you have bitcoin BTW? i'd like to send you a couple coin for your help. [02:48] kees: ifup -a should have caught the eth5.3 entry after eth5.. thats very strange. That said, I'm not entirely sure of how ifupdown handles vlan entries like that. [02:55] who has some experience writing upstart configs for packages from the distribution's point of view? I'd like to port both slapd and krb5-kdb/admin-server to upstart to fix a small bug with start order but I'm not sure how much of the current sysv stuff move over to upstart (like variables from default files etc.) [02:57] SpamapS: poorly, apparently ;-P [02:57] also, what's the policy on shipping upstart override files in packages? [03:05] twb: I think its worth proposing a replacement for ifupdown in the 12.10 cycle.. seems ridiculous to keep this weird thing alive. [03:09] I bet the replacement will be worse tho :-/ [03:09] yeah, base it on network manager while your are on it :P [03:09] haha [03:10] "in 12.10 ubuntu now requires NM to be installed everywhere and is included in the initrd for maximum fail" [03:10] Or some stupid undocumented failtastic upstart helper a la mountall(8) [03:13] heh, I wouldn't mind if it were done well [03:13] but then we are talking about Ubuntu here ;) [03:15] The snark is strong with this one. [04:01] SpamapS: well, the device for eth5 doesn't exist at all any more, so I assume it would never get to eth5.3 [04:02] SpamapS: why it "got" to eth5, I don't know either. I think that's the actual bug. [04:02] or rather, just because something is "auto" doesn't mean it attached to the system. ;) [04:13] What's the proper way to get sshd to start on boot? [04:14] Corey: apt-get install openssh-server [04:27] twb: Yeah, I get that. But let's say I want to disable it from starting on boot for a while. To reenable it, I would...? [04:27] dpkg-divert --remove --rename /etc/init/ssh.conf [04:28] Unfortunately, in their infinite wisdom, the upstart developers broke invoke-rc.d [04:28] Er, policy-rc.d [04:36] Anyone here? [04:37] Using Ubuntu 10.04 server and getting Request timed out when pinged. [04:38] can you ssh to the system? [04:38] let me try [04:39] mgw: Network error: Connection timed out [04:40] do you have physical access? [04:40] or KVM? [04:40] No physical access [04:40] cloud server [04:41] which provider? [04:41] eleven2.com [04:41] do they give you KVM? [04:42] don't know what it is [04:42] console access [04:42] essentially [04:44] ah, they are using the wrong credit card information so it has been suspended, easy fix. [04:45] That would explain it. Glad you figured it out. [06:18] kees: was eth5 a static interface, while eth5.3 dhcp? [07:06] hi all [07:13] koolhead17, hi [07:13] hello dissipate [07:14] koolhead17, what's going on? [07:14] koolhead17, are your ubuntu servers running smooth as silk? [07:14] your asking or telling :) [07:16] asking. :P [07:16] anyways i can help u? [07:17] koolhead17, i'm looking for a way of mounting amazon s3 buckets in ubuntu server that's easier to set up than what i have now. [07:18] i'm using s3fs which has no package, must be compiled from source. :/ [07:18] dissipate: did you check s3 documentation, am sure your the only one with this idea :) [07:19] yep [07:19] i'm actually interested in third party tools. [07:21] dissipate: am not a amazon used but i would be interested to know the liberty amazon provides :D [07:22] it be cool if you can also ask it as question at launchpad [07:22] koolhead17, fairly cheap and pretty much unlimited storage is what they provide. [07:23] cool [07:41] New bug: #893887 in samba (main) "package samba 2:3.5.8~dfsg-1ubuntu2.3 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: package samba is not ready for configuration cannot configure (current status `half-installed')" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893887 [08:38] morning o/ [09:10] morning all [09:11] morning [09:13] I've a question on preseeding and executing commands at the end of installation... what's the best way to download a script and execute it? Under RH its simple in their kickstart scripts... Ubuntu is 'different'. [09:13] * uksysadmin thought I'd tempt the answer with some Red Hat bait and waits... [09:15] uksysadmin: it depends, Ubuntu uses preseed for hardware and cloud-init for cloud instances so you can use either depending on what you're doing [09:15] uksysadmin: https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/installation-guide/i386/preseed-advanced.html#preseed-hooks [09:15] uksysadmin: for example :) [09:16] (just change 11.04 with your version of Ubuntu) [09:16] hello [09:17] cheers lynxman - read that, I am wanting to set a https_proxy and download a script using wget. bit of a hack atm, but it replicates the post steps I'm doing at present. [09:17] I get 'export' command not found when setting the env var. [09:17] I'm trying an alternative [09:17] this is on a physical server [09:21] As I'm using Orchestra, is there a way of having this "post-script" living somewhere on my Orchestra server and grabbing it from there instead? [09:22] * uksysadmin is speaking out loud and realises that's the best way [09:23] uksysadmin: so this differs heavily from your first question, which was "what to use" and you're already using something :) [09:24] Not really - I'm new to pxe booting ubuntu [09:24] uksysadmin: orchestra uses cloud-init, it has an integrated metadata service, so you just need to add or modify to the cloud-init script [09:24] at the end of the day it uses cobbler and runs som post hooks [09:24] just need an example where I can do some post commands and I'm not sure what the difference is between in-target and /run etc [09:24] uksysadmin: well... it uses a lot more than that actually [09:25] happy to be pointed in the direction of some docs that explains how to use it [09:25] as opposed to how I think I should be using it [09:28] so in other words, I shouldn't be using the preseed files but something that cloud-init calls? [09:29] For an NFS share, I want it available on a 172.16.11.0/24 as well as a 10.0.0.0/8, do I just list the share twice, but with different network ranges? [09:30] i.e. doing: /Shares 172.16.11.0/255.255.255.0 [09:30] /Shares 10.0.0.0/255.0.0.0 [09:31] Or is it comma delimited? [09:31] Takyoji: you can just add them in the same line /share 172.16.11.0/24(rw,no_root_squash,async),10.0.0.0/8(rw,no_root_squash,async) [09:31] ahh, alright [09:33] I got a syntax error [09:33] jamespage: Hey James I have a bug that has been sitting ducks for some days now #884908 would you fancy sponsoring it? :) [09:34] bug 884908 [09:34] Launchpad bug 884908 in mcollective "Package dependencies need work" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/884908 [09:34] Takyoji: ah my bad, no comma delimitation, just space [09:34] Takyoji: did a "man exports" :) [09:34] I tried using whitespace instead, and it reloaded properly, we'll see if it works [09:34] jamespage: it's just a change in dependencies to make things work as they should [09:35] lynxman, looking now [09:38] lynxman: has that same fix already been applied in precise? [09:39] jamespage: yes, it's included in the latest package uploaded yesterday [09:39] hi all [09:40] koolhead11: ello sir o/ [09:40] hello lynxman :D [09:40] koolhead11: I always wonder... why the number change? ;) [09:41] lynxman, 11 mostly means am at my workplace :D [09:41] koolhead11: aaah [09:41] hehe [09:42] never knew sleeping for 5 hours can give you hangover .. [09:44] The second network still seems to be denied [09:44] The 10.0.0.0/255.0.0.0 [09:44] lynxman, i have made some progress with dashboard, i can finally see the login page. hehehe [09:46] Takyoji: run exportfs -a [09:46] koolhead11: wow, that's very good :) [09:46] No output? [09:47] Takyoji: that'll reload your exports file into your nfs server [09:47] ahh [09:47] lynxman, but the django server gets killed and dies once i provide it the authentication. It does connects to keystone. Planning to use apache2 now instead django. It will give me better log/error details [09:47] koolhead11: do you have the python error at hand? [09:48] koolhead11: I might help you there, done some django [09:48] * lynxman has a dark past :D [09:48] not anything really great. [09:48] Still denied as of yet [09:49] Takyoji: then check why it's being denied in /var/log/system.log [09:49] DEBUG:django_openstack.api:auth_api connection created using url "http://192.168.1.4:5000/v2.0/" [09:49] Takyoji: it should give a clear explanation there [09:49] koolhead11: try running django in debug mode [09:49] There isn't a /var/log/system.log [09:49] Did you mean dmesg, or auth.log, or? [09:49] Takyoji: gah I mean /var/log/syslog [09:49] * lynxman really needs coffee this morning [09:50] "refused mount request from 10.242.2.6 for /home (/home): illegal port 53339" [09:50] Takyoji: that's a weird error [09:50] Indeed it is. xP [09:51] Takyoji: it's too early for tongue mister ;) [09:51] I wonder if the NAT of VirtualBox is causing issues [09:51] Takyoji: aaah, add insecure to your nfs share definition, then run exportfs -a [09:51] D: [09:51] Takyoji: looks like NFS considers that high port insecure [09:52] Resolved. [09:52] Takyoji: \o/ [09:52] Any reason for that nature of functionality? [09:53] Is it for the sake of "higher than port 1024" philosophy, or? [09:53] Takyoji: kinda, yes [10:00] lynxman, i think django is allready in that debug mode [10:02] koolhead11: then you should have a lot more output than that [10:03] lynxman, and do u have custom partition as wll :) [10:03] lynxman, , [10:03] let me boot my box again [10:03] koolhead11: lol okay [10:11] hey guys i have a quick question [10:11] cobbler does it support provisioning of HVM xen guests? [10:19] uksysadmin, http://paste.ubuntu.com/746865/ [10:19] the shell script in postinstall i have used to inject ssh key :D [10:22] lynxman, got few minutes [10:22] anyone know or worked with cobbler on 11.10 [10:22] koolhead11: for you always :) [10:23] lynxman, sir :D [10:23] lynxman, any idea, which file i need to add modify for better log output in dash/django [10:23] koolhead11: I do! one sec... *looking* [10:24] cool [10:24] i see this INFO:root:Running in debug mode without debug_toolbar. [10:24] koolhead11: just add DEBUG=True to your django site conf [10:25] * koolhead11 wonders what will that be for dashboard [10:27] koolhead11: there should be a config.py somewhere [10:27] koolhead11: I forgot more django in 1 year than I wish to admit [10:27] checking [10:28] :p [10:29] lynxman, u meant settings.py [10:29] koolhead11: yeah that *smacks own head* [10:29] lynxman, go grab a coffee :D [10:29] koolhead11: I had already one, looks like a need a second one... [10:29] hehe === smb` is now known as smb [10:49] koolhead11: How did you get on with, https://launchpad.net/~zulcss/+archive/openstack-updates ? [10:50] Daviey, i have not tried that. not updated the server yet [10:51] am foo fighting to get bloody dash show me some love [10:52] i have been able to get the teaser so far, more than 24 hours and counting :P [10:56] heh [11:02] cheers koolhead11 [11:03] uksysadmin, did i saved some time of yours :D [11:03] hey guys any cobbler users here on 11.10 [11:03] or ubuntu orchestra users here [11:04] not had chance to try it yet - been in a meeting [11:04] k [11:04] eagles0513875|, yes and its testing my patience [11:05] ahh how come uksysadmin [11:06] my logical brain doesn't extend to d-i weirdness in some preseed files ;-) [11:06] ? [11:06] ya lost me [11:06] uksysadmin: have you tried provisioning HVM based xen guests with it? [11:06] I'm trying to do a simple install and after its installed everything, run a script [11:06] eagles0513875|,no [11:07] do you think it might work with HVM guests uksysadmin? [11:07] Deathvalley122, i would suggest you to check #cobbler channel [11:07] ok [11:08] koolhead11: ya its dead in there right now [11:08] google is no help either [11:08] cause it does not mention anything about cobbler on google lol [11:11] not sure what you're asking Deathvalley122 - I'm not using Orchestra for any guests - just bare metal provisioning of OpenStack [11:11] uksysadmin: ahh ok does open stack use something like xen as a hypervisor or does it have its own [11:11] don't worry about it I will find something [11:12] uksysadmin: you working with xen kvm or vmware as virtualization back end [11:12] Hi, on my pressed PXE template I have "keyboard-configuration/layoutcode=us" but when it boots from the network it shows the menu asking me the keyboard layout, any advice? [11:14] all we want to do is provision HVM xen guests on cobbler is all uksysadmin [11:16] I'm working on physical tin - not virtual [11:16] * uksysadmin isn't someone you want to ask Qs on Orchestra - it has reduced me to a n00b [11:17] ahh ok thats different then [11:17] uksysadmin: no it hasn't one thing you might like more is juju for service deployment :D [11:17] indeed - that's next [11:17] eagles0513875|, :P [11:18] just being able to run a little script is all I ask [11:18] :) [11:18] uksysadmin: then you want juju for that [11:18] uksysadmin, you can easily do that with late-preseed option [11:19] I've barely got OpenStack working using scripting - if someone has juju charms for OpenStack and a manual for setting up Orchestra to provision OpenStack, send it my way [11:19] uksysadmin: there aren't yet but i know someone who works for backspace that I'm hoping i can push him to do the script would be a great addition to the charms :D [11:19] absolutely - I've been teased by the things for weeks! [11:20] it was announced in Paris a while back it was the way to go [11:20] i need some information about PPA. suppose there is a package which is available in archiev and am adding a PPA for same. will i be able to get the pkg downloaded from PPA or archive [11:20] * koolhead11 is confused [11:20] in the meantime, I can install ubuntu, run a script and voila - OpenStack [11:20] uksysadmin, :P [11:20] where is the system umask configured? [11:21] * uksysadmin has a red hat background and this stuff is childsplay using kickstart [11:21] uksysadmin, :P [11:21] ;-() [11:22] * uksysadmin checks he's wearing flame-retardant underwear [11:22] lol [11:23] bahh [11:29] koolhead11: if you create your own ppa you can just add it to your server with add-apt-repository ppa:username/ppaname [11:30] lynxman, yeah. my question was i have say pkg A which is allready in pkg archieve and i created/installed one via PPA which will get installed :D [11:31] CppIsWeird: It's in /etc/login.defs [11:31] uksysadmin: kickstart it's child's play compared to Orchestra ;) [11:31] koolhead11: if the version is > it should be fine [11:32] lynxman, aah [11:33] s/it's/is/ [11:34] * koolhead11 kicks uksysadmin [11:35] oi! [11:35] uksysadmin, am scared of ***flame** [11:35] :D [11:36] :) [11:36] * uksysadmin crosses fingers. 19th pxe boot's a charm I reckon. [11:37] uksysadmin: can i see your config? [11:38] let me see yours :p [11:39] if my config works - I'll let anyone who pays me see it. apart from koolhead11 as I pinched the last bit from him. [11:39] ;-) [11:39] * koolhead11 kicks uksysadmin again!! [11:40] uksysadmin: works for me... I'm going to add "if user="uksysadmin: kernelpanic()" to many of the packages you care about. :) [11:40] awesome - fame at last. [11:41] hahahaha [11:41] if you hold off Daviey - I'll have a working system in 5 mins. [11:41] if it doesn't work - you can have my config and be damned to eternal reboots for ever. [11:42] my set up is rather simpl: boot oneiric, grab a script, runs a script, installs OpenStack [11:46] So Daviey, do you want to see my config and laugh, or see my config and go "n00b"? The script is a stock example preeseed that runs an OpenStack install script I wrote in the late run section [11:55] so those who like to give juju love - rather than pre-seeding a script to do stuff, what is the best way to run stuff post-install using juju? i.e. what does a set up look like from bare metal where I've pre-allocated it to do a particular task? [11:56] if OpenStack charms existed [11:56] (an example where it sets up /something/ in juju would be handy) [11:56] uksysadmin: There's an Openstack charm :) [11:57] zul, around? [11:57] is there now... [11:57] I'm listening... [11:58] uksysadmin: https://code.launchpad.net/~charmers [11:59] intriguing [12:00] koolhead11: still waking up.... [12:01] zul: good moaning [12:02] has anyone installed openstack using charms? it's quite a feat to install. [12:02] or specifically - to install in a datacentre and not in a little sandpit environment [12:03] would the steps be edit the charm, modify the networking and ... how do you get Orchestra to kick off a juju deployment? [12:05] uksysadmin: no need to edit any charm [12:05] * uksysadmin was wondering why preseed was stuck at 23% for last 5 mins. F4 had the answer... now how to press "Y" to continue... ;-) [12:05] ok [12:05] uksysadmin: just create your charm config and run [12:06] I need to go to charm school [12:07] What does an preseed file look like that goes "juju deploy blah" - is that literally something you put in the late_command section or is there a more eloquent juju friendly way? [12:08] uksysadmin: you assign the machine a juju-deployment profile through orchestra, then just use regular juju commands [12:09] semiosis, what exact instructions were you trying ? [12:10] smoser: morning sir [12:10] good morning. [12:11] one shall have a play lynxman [12:11] uksysadmin: :D [12:28] zul, good morning :D [12:30] * uksysadmin is getting there - at least script runs now... now onto networking and partitioning... [12:31] uksysadmin, cool. [12:34] doesn't run as intended, but one small step for mankind and all that! [12:43] Hi [12:51] New bug: #893978 in groovy (universe) "Groovy package should depend on either sun-jdk or openjdk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893978 [12:51] can someone please comment on http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/746982/ [12:51] I am on Ubuntu-server 10.04 [12:51] LTS [12:52] Any clue please ? [12:52] kaushal: erm... [12:52] 17163091969 seconds is like 544 years [12:53] * RoyK somewhat doubts kaushal was running linux back in 1467 [12:54] RoyK: apologies [12:54] please give me a moment [13:01] whats good software to monitor my box, e.g. chkrootkit, cacti??? [13:02] whats good software to monitor my box, e.g. chkrootkit, cacti??? [13:02] * koolhead11 points yaboo to google [13:03] whats good software to monitor my box, e.g. chkrootkit, cacti???, sorry to ask again seems my irc client did not show me the response to my question [13:04] yaboo: software good for you, cacti, rsyslog, munin, nagios [13:05] lynx man thanks, using cacti, is rsyslog more on the os level, to check when files get changed etc [13:05] yaboo: wow, I didn't know that [13:05] * lynxman ashamed of himself [13:05] :D [13:06] lynxman, just asking, never heard of rsyslog [13:06] yaboo: so you don't want a monitoring solution, you want a tripwire [13:06] yaboo: you can use ossec for that [13:06] tripwire?? ossec, thanks [13:32] is there any way to preseed a ubuntu server with multiple nics and assign multiple IPs? [13:33] uksysadmin, expalin [13:34] I have eth0 and eth1. eth0 always gets my settings from my preseed, how do I enable eth1? [13:34] as well [13:34] uksysadmin, i did that using my late command. :) [13:35] was wondering if that was the only option [13:35] the preseed i shared u [13:35] yeah [13:35] ta [13:40] How can I tell If i have a proxy running [13:41] netstat -tulpn | grep 3128 [13:42] philip@philip-Studio-1558:~$ netstat -tulpn | grep 3128 [13:42] (Not all processes could be identified, non-owned process info [13:42] will not be shown, you would have to be root to see it all.) [13:42] philip@philip-Studio-1558:~$ sudo !! [13:42] sudo netstat -tulpn | grep 3128 [13:42] [sudo] password for philip: [13:42] philip@philip-Studio-1558:~$ [13:43] philipballew, would you care reading squid part in ubuntu server guide at same time https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/ [13:44] sure :) [13:45] thanks philipballew [13:46] alright. how can i se if i can get my self back into america? [13:49] koolhead11, Whats a way to fix this [13:50] morning [13:51] zul, :) [13:51] tried your PPA and got some error [13:52] for keystone reg unmet deps [13:52] python-keystone [13:54] koolhead11: eh? [13:54] yes :( [13:55] can you pastebin it? [13:55] http://paste.ubuntu.com/747038/ [13:55] am using oneiric and then added PPA of yours [13:58] sudo apt-get install keystone python-keystone for now please [13:58] hallyn, Fun, I think I found out what the problem with those nfs4 mounts is... [13:59] k lemme try [14:00] zul, http://paste.ubuntu.com/747043/ [14:01] koolhead11: k thanks [14:01] koolhead11: gimme a couple of minutes [14:02] smb: oh? [14:02] hallyn, In short there is no nfs4 module which the command tries to load... [14:03] It is the same nfs module than for nfs... [14:03] smb: you're talking about a userspace module? or kernel module? [14:03] A kernel module of course :) [14:04] The magic is that mount -tnfs loads the kernel nfs module [14:04] so userspace needs to be told that nfs module is ok? [14:04] mount -tnfs4 tries the same with an nfs4 module which does not exist [14:04] /etc/modrpobe.d/nfs4.conf: alias nfs4 nfs [14:04] That should do the trick [14:04] smb: nice :) [14:05] zul, rocking as Daviey says :D [14:05] But I wait for reporters feedback [14:05] smb: if you want to comment that in the bug, i'll happily test it on lucid..oneiric with autofs [14:05] oh, ok [14:05] hallyn, Done already. [14:05] smoser: thanks for getting back to me. i downloaded http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/server/oneiric/current/oneiric-server-cloudimg-amd64-disk1.img then i launched it using virt-manager. that got me to a login prompt but the creds were not accepted. [14:05] smb: ok i haven't read email backlog yet :) thanks! [14:06] smoser: my workstation is vmx capable 64-bit oneiric [14:06] hallyn, Meh, I just did it, so there is chance you have not even have got any email [14:06] semiosis, there are no creds. [14:07] so how does one login? [14:07] you cannot log in without providing some user-data. [14:08] i suggest for your virt-manager path to make yourself an iso as described at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEC/Images#Ubuntu_Cloud_Guest_images_on_Local_Hypervisor_Natty_onward [14:08] and just attach it. [14:09] by 'attach' i mean provide that as a CD-ROM to virt-manager. [14:09] then it will boot and read the customization data from that iso (which includes setting password for 'ubuntu' to 'passw0rd') [14:09] smoser: what is the meaning of the following section, "Ubuntu Cloud Guest images on Local Hypervisor (Oneiric)" [14:10] smoser: that makes it sound like you can just launch the downloaded qcow2 .img file directly [14:10] yeah, thats just bad documentation. [14:10] smoser: ha [14:10] smoser: it would be better if that section were removed completely [14:11] smoser: but i digress. thanks for setting me straight :) [14:11] i'll go the natty iso route [14:11] so, the reason that these do not have any credentials for logging in is that we expect people to launch them on public networks. [14:12]