dmj726morning willcooke14:00
willcookeafternoon ;)14:01
willcookehow's it going?14:01
dmj726fine, I figured I'd let you know I was the one proposing the Control from portable devices feature, though I wasn't available on irc during the discussion yesterday14:03
dmj726So if you guys need any explanation about it, I'm available today :)14:03
brk0_0Escuse me...Can anyone tell me if the meeting will be here?14:59
MrChrisDruifThanks willcooke =)15:16
MrChrisDruifSo, in about 1,5 hours will do that priority meeting =)15:18
MrChrisDruif(At least, that's the plan)15:18
MrChrisDruifI see some more people then yesterday?15:23
MrChrisDruifWho's already around for the meeting?15:34
dmj726MrChrisDruif: me :)15:35
dmj726well I was here before sorta15:35
MrChrisDruifYeah, I saw on the log15:36
MrChrisDruifYou proposed the..15:36
MrChrisDruif..control from portable devices15:37
MrChrisDruifApparently, but I don't think it really needs explaining, because it's pretty explanatory ;-)15:38
dmj726yeah, basically control via mobile devices, but it's also key to allowing applications to run well across all devices15:38
MrChrisDruifHow do you mean?15:38
dmj726so video editing project runs on several tablets and the TV simultaneously15:38
MrChrisDruifAhh, like that =)15:38
dmj726Yep, Novacut really wants to make that possible15:41
dmj726we suspect it will also be very good for other apps15:42
MrChrisDruifBut that is just one project, we shouldn't focus into one that much I think15:43
dmj726MrChrisDruif: I'm not saying that Novacut should be tied in too much here15:43
dmj726Just demonstrating that building the right kind of flexibility into the system will let applications like that make UTV a better experience15:44
callumsaunders1I don't think any other platform can offer productivity on that sort of multidevice level15:48
MrChrisDruifWell, if you noted the etherpad, we have plugin-system in the high segment =)15:48
dmj726MrChrisDruif: Yes, though I'm wondering really what is meant by "plugin"15:49
MrChrisDruifdmj726; it could be "anything" right now. It's not defined at all in this stage15:50
dmj726I would guess that the right approach is to allow "plugins" to certain systems, perhaps via an api, plus a way to run normal applications in fullscreen mode.15:51
MrChrisDruifPlugins can have all sorts of functions in UTV15:52
willcookeOh, how about:  We publish a "remote control input" standard over HTTP and then people could use it in new and exciting ways15:52
MrChrisDruifVideo recording, gaming, I-don't-really-care-what-other-functions-you-can-think-of ;-)15:52
willcookeIn fact, let's not limit it to remote control15:52
willcookekenvandine in the house!  Hey dude!15:53
MrChrisDruifAnd he is special?15:53
dmj726willcooke: if we have some standard methods for input over http, that sounds good15:53
kenvandineyo willcooke!15:53
dmj726Actually very similar to how Novacut realtime collaboration works15:54
dmj726local databases on both devices sync in realtime15:54
willcookedmj726, we could start with "Remote Control" functionality - that way people can write apps on any device15:54
dmj726to input to the TV you would just have the tablet make changes in the database15:54
kenvandinewhat i really want to see is state syncing for media between devices15:54
callumsaunders1thats on the list15:55
dmj726willcooke: yes, "remote control" using this system is a good way to start and provide general input15:55
kenvandineso watching something on my TV (online), pause it... whip out my tablet and pick up the playback :)15:55
MrChrisDruifwillcooke; remote control (at least for remotes) is in essential ;-)15:55
willcookekenvandine, yes- that will be awesome.15:55
willcookedmj726, "just have the tablet make changes in the database" sounds painful.  API would make more sense?15:55
dmj726willcooke: Then if applications want more, they can use the same system for their own use15:55
kenvandineand it should be content agnostic... if we can work that out15:55
kenvandinesame for music, etc15:55
dmj726willcooke: this would be a sort of REST API15:56
willcookedmj726, that sounds good15:56
callumsaunders1dmj726, are you the novacut guy?15:56
dmj726So the client GUI, tells the local database what changes to make15:56
dmj726Then the changes replicate automatically to the other databases15:56
dmj726The software on the TV sees the change and behaves accordingly15:57
dmj726callumsaunders1: I'm one of them.15:57
MrChrisDruifI might be a brake around here, but I think it's better to first get things prioritized?16:00
dmj726It sounds complicated but it actually helps simplify development in many ways.16:01
willcookeSounds like we need U1DB for that16:02
dmj726willcooke: Yes, though U1DB currently doesn't do realtime sync16:03
dmj726although I suspect they would be likely to add it if Ubuntu TV needed it.16:03
dmj726U1DB is also document oriented as well, which is very good for this sort of thing16:04
willcookepopey, are you chan op?16:07
popeyi am16:08
aquariuso/ willcooke16:09
dmj726MrChrisDruif: I think there's probably place to get an overall feel for the platform even without a priority list :)16:09
dmj726where we want to go and do and all that16:10
willcookeaquarius, tell us about how we can sync U1DB quickly between multiple devices16:11
willcookewe want to sync bookmarks etc between devices16:11
aquariusdoes "quickly" mean "each sync does not take very long", or "we can have a syncing thing up and running a short time from today"?16:12
dmj726quickly as in fairly real time, yes?16:13
aquariusah, right. I should be clear that u1db is early in development right now.16:13
aquariusSyncs are commanded by the application that's using the database16:13
aquariusso if you want to fire off a sync every time a bookmark is written, you can do so16:13
dmj726aquarius: So can one setup U1DB to automatically sync databases for each change?16:14
aquariuswell... doing a sync is just another u1db method. dmj726, are you a coder?16:15
dmj726dmj726: yep, with Novacut, mostly on the gstreamer side though16:15
aquariusdmj726, aha! then I've met you, I believe :P16:16
dmj726First day of UDS?16:16
aquariusok, so you write a document to a u1db with something like db.put_doc(docid, document)16:16
aquariusso there's nothing stopping your "save a doc" method doing "db.put_doc(docid, document); db.sync(server_location)" if you want16:17
* willcooke loves it when people come together 16:18
dmj726aquarius: Are there any performance issues with the way U1DB syncs that would be an issue with doing many syncs?16:18
willcookeDoes everyone who writes code know everyone else who writes code?!16:18
aquariusdifficult to answer that question right now because the server implementation is still under discussion, but let me think about it for two mins :)16:18
aquariuswillcooke, yep. We all know one another. It is witchcraft16:19
dmj726will U1DB provide anything like _rev in couchdb?16:19
aquariusyep, there are revisions16:19
dmj726willcooke: well, more of a general uttering incantations into a glowing talisman thing really16:20
dmj726so it sounds like U1DB could be used to provide input to the TV and feedback to tablets16:22
aquariusyeah. Think of it as like couchdb but not requiring a separate server to be run, from one perspective16:22
aquariusI mean, if you're writing a lot of docs, and you sync after every write, you'll be hammering the server16:24
aquariusbut maybe that's reasonable16:24
aquariusthe other alternative is u1 file sync, which is instantaneous16:24
dmj726I would guess we should only write the docs that are changed16:25
aquariussync will only sync changed docs16:27
aquariusI don't know what you're talking about using u1db *for* here, though :)16:27
dmj726aquarius: mainly input from users for controlling the TV I believe16:27
aquariuserm... how does input need a database?16:27
dmj726plus applications interfacing between devices16:28
popeywillcooke: did you need something oppy?16:28
aquariusI press the "left" button on a remote; a thing moves left. where's there a DB in this? :)16:28
popeywillcooke: I'll add you if you like?16:28
aquariusapplications interfacing between devices, sure :)16:28
dmj726aquarius: let me link you to a mailing list16:28
willcookepopey, nah I was trying to invite aq, but we're all sorted16:29
dmj726aquarius: ^^16:30
aquariusif you want actual real-time stuff like that, the way to do it is probably not to write locally and then sync every time. You can write direct to the server16:30
dmj726so it's about controlling the TV from tablets and phones and such16:30
dmj726so write direct to the server for input, and write locally with sync for collaborative stuff16:32
aquariusthat's sorta what I'm thinking. If you want to control a remote device from here in realtime, then you want a permanently-open communications channel, which is not what u1db is.16:33
popeyavahi ☺16:33
aquariusand trying to trick up u1db into being a permanently-open comms channel will just cause you misery :) This is why jabber exists :)16:33
popeyheh, jabber server in your telly16:33
willcookegood idea16:33
willcookeyou could message it to say record xyz16:34
aquariusall this assumes they're on the same network, of course16:34
dmj726so you would send a message to the DB on the server via jabber?  or am I being silly16:34
willcookeahh, yes16:34
aquariusjabber can send all kinds of messages, so it's good at realtime stuff16:34
popeyyou could chat with the telly16:34
popey"Was eastenders any good on tuesday?"16:34
popey"BARB Ratings for Eastenders on tuesday put it ahead of I'm A Celebrity"16:35
aquariuscheck out Volity for an example of using jabber as a realtime comms channel -- they have a multiplayer games server which uses jabber as the comms protocol. It's not just for IM chat16:35
popeyyou could do video chat inside the house, webcam on every telly16:36
popey<kitchen> "Hey bob, your dinner is ready"16:36
dmj726so jabber would be better than using a REST API?16:36
aquariusthe question is: why is this stuff going into a database on both the device and the tv?16:36
aquariusif I'm controlling the tv to show people a youtube video, say... why do I need to record forever on both the tv and my phone that I did that?16:37
aquariusit's just an RPC, right?16:37
tgm4883So i'm probably not going to be available for the meeting today16:37
dmj726aquarius: that's true16:37
tgm4883I have to give two back to back interviews today starting in 20 minutes16:37
dmj726Though it may sometimes be important to model the state of the system16:37
tgm4883I'm fine with the list so far, and I'm responding to the email from willcooke right now16:38
dmj726So if the local device can for instance know that the TV is in "Play" mode, it can offer more intelligent interface on the client16:38
aquariusdmj726, yeah, there's value in recording this stuff in a DB somewhere, but I can't see why you wuoldn't just have RPC from phone to TV and then have the TV stash away logs of commands (in a DB, or whatever)16:38
willcookesounds like the best option16:39
aquariusdmj726, oooh, trying to keep the local device permanently in sync with what mode the TV is in is a real-time collaboration problem. At that point you're building World of Warcraft, and it ain't easy. If you're on the LAN, it's a lot easier to request http://tv/states/ and have it return {"state": "play"} :-)16:39
MrChrisDruiftgm4883; too bad you can't come. Good luck with the interviews =)16:39
dmj726Well, not nearly so intensive as WoW I wouldn't think, though not the easiest16:42
dmj726aquarius: but then wouldn't the device have to keep pinging http://tv/states?16:42
aquariuswell, I'd make that a comet endpoint, but yeah16:42
aquariusso you wouldn't ping it; you'd hang on it16:43
dmj726so whenever something needs it, you wait for it to respond?16:43
aquariuswell, if you're hanging on it, then you get told whenever it changes16:44
dmj726ah, okay, that hang16:44
dmj726aquarius: Hmm, so you would requests http://tv/states/ parse the data, present it.  Then when the user does something, send a jabber message to the TV, which then changes the contents of http://tv/states16:50
MrChrisDruifI think that is how you should think of it16:51
aquariusthe question is whether you need lots of two-way realtime communication between device and tv16:51
aquariusif you do, then use jabber for it16:51
aquariusif it's mainly one-way (device sends a command, tv obeys) and occasionally the other way (tv changes something, device needs to know about it) then do it over http with a couple of hang-on-this endpoints on the tv16:52
aquariusyou shouldn't need both16:52
MrChrisDruifTwo-way. I don't know. It could for faster letting the device know that a change has happened16:53
MrChrisDruifAnd the TV ALSO writes it to http://tv/states/16:53
aquariusthe tv doesn't need to write it there, though, if it's sending jabber messages to everyone16:54
aquariusno-one will ever read the endpoint16:54
MrChrisDruifIt could request the current state with jabber I think?16:55
dmj726Authentication/pairing is also important to consider here16:56
erkan^ubuntu-tv, MrChrisDruif ?16:59
erkan^wat doet men precies?16:59
MrChrisDruifI was announced with UDS-P (the previous one)17:00
MrChrisDruiferkan^; This is an international channel, please use English =)17:00
erkan^sorry, I will speak English language only :P17:01
MrChrisDruifAlright everyone, shall we start the "meeting"?17:01
MrChrisDruifAlright, for who has missed it, here is the link to the feature list we want to get implemented: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UbuntuTV17:02
AlanBellMrChrisDruif: want a meeting bot?17:02
IAmNotThatGuyAlanBell, sure17:02
MrChrisDruifAlanBell; could be usefull17:02
AlanBelldone :)17:03
IAmNotThatGuyMrChrisDruif, #startmeeting17:03
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Nov 23 17:03:18 2011 UTC.  The chair is MrChrisDruif. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.17:03
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired17:03
MrChrisDruifWelcome everyone, now we get "official"17:03
IAmNotThatGuyRaise your hands for attendance17:03
MrChrisDruiftgm4883 is unfortunately missing because of two interview back-to-back17:04
popeyoh, is the meeting actually now?17:04
popeyyou're not just testing the bot?17:05
IAmNotThatGuypopey, lol yep17:05
popeyoh, sorry17:05
MrChrisDruif#link http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UbuntuTV17:05
MrChrisDruif(Quiet link acceptance?)17:05
MrChrisDruifAnd another one17:05
MrChrisDruif#link http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/22/%23ubuntu-tv.html17:05
MrChrisDruifThe first link is to the document we are about the further discuss. To know what has been discussed already, please look in the second link17:06
IAmNotThatGuyOkay. Carryon17:06
MrChrisDruif#topic Prioritizing the list17:06
AlanBellMrChrisDruif: yeah, #link doesn't do a massive amount right now, there is a bug about that17:07
MrChrisDruifIt's still useful to mention the links =)17:07
MrChrisDruifWe were going down the list from top to bottom and we got to Collaboration with Ubuntu devices17:08
MrChrisDruifDoes everybody understand the different sections? (They are pretty explanatory if you ask me)17:09
Wellarkhi! sorry for being late!17:09
MrChrisDruifWelcome Wellark17:10
dmj726Personally I think collaboration is high importance17:10
dmj726It could be a pretty key differentiator for Ubuntu devices17:10
MrChrisDruifI'm not sure to put it in the high section.17:11
dmj726Mark seems fairly keen on the idea too17:11
Wellarkyes, +117:11
callumsaunders1i agree with with dmj72617:11
Wellarkas I've understood the "Unity Experience" is also largely about collaboration17:12
IAmNotThatGuyMrChrisDruif, Any reasons for that thought?17:12
MrChrisDruifWell, I think it might be a very good feature to have, I do think we shouldn't put it in the high because I don't know how many devs we will have and we can't have it all in high17:13
dmj726Well, I think it's important to design with it in mind than to tack it on after all other things are implemented17:13
Wellarkwell, I think the rest can be other than "high" :)17:14
Wellarkbut collaboration between devices as high17:14
MrChrisDruifWellark; How do you mean? The things that are now in high you mean?17:14
WellarkI mean the uncategorized ones17:14
MrChrisDruifOkay, noted17:15
Wellarkthere are only two left after this one17:15
Wellarkthe high priority list seems to be pretty good package17:15
dmj726So collaboration in High?17:15
MrChrisDruifBtw I had a note added after the meeting about the previous item17:16
IAmNotThatGuyBut you should consider what MrChrisDruif is talking about. Starting it with less number of developers will also lead to some wrong tracks and delay in work17:17
dmj726We should try to figure out how many developers the project really has.17:18
MrChrisDruifThat is certainly something to keep in mind, but it's prospected to not have anything very functional until 13.04 or something17:18
dmj726It's probably more important to get it right than get it done quick and have to backtrack17:18
WellarkI don't feel the HIGH section is too cumbersome17:19
IAmNotThatGuydmj726, True. But if you ask me, then I will say "What about finding the right developers be the high priority job? =]"17:19
AlanBellis there a hardware reference specification?17:20
Wellarkanyway the items in high section have to be prioritized17:20
dmj726So we should decide what the core functionality needs to be for a compelling offering, and then work toward that.17:20
AlanBellis it ARM or Atom for example?17:20
callumsaunders1all of it. except home automation17:20
MrChrisDruifdmj726; that was the main reasoning in the different sections17:20
AlanBellwhat screen resolution? full HD?17:20
callumsaunders1that list should be ubuntu tv 1.017:21
MrChrisDruifHaha, popey17:21
IAmNotThatGuypopey +1000 ;D17:21
dmj726also some things are easier to bolt on after the fact and others are much harder to change once you've gone far17:22
MrChrisDruifWhat is absolutely required, is essential17:22
MrChrisDruifThat's why the plugin system is in high17:22
MrChrisDruifIt's not necessary, but it's a very useful way to add functionality later on17:22
dmj726So essential is "what do we need for a working TV"17:23
MrChrisDruifHigh is the "cool" system17:23
IAmNotThatGuyWe can even plan how it should be and can keep it for the next version (If needed)17:23
MrChrisDruifMedium is the "awesome" system17:23
dmj726high is "what do we need for a device that people will want beyond an ordinary tv"17:23
MrChrisDruifAnd low is the "ICan'tDescribeThisInWords" system17:23
dmj726for reference I suspect that control from portable devices will be very easy once we have Collaborate with other Ubuntu devices, just a little work on top of that framework17:24
MrChrisDruifYeah, that's why we initially put it in medium17:25
dmj726and Push media to/from other Ubuntu devices / Media syncing capabilities would also fit within the framework17:25
dmj726so implement collaboration framework and the other two are specific applications thereof17:26
MrChrisDruifI tend to agree on that (I'm not a dev)17:26
dmj726yeah, that sounds good17:27
dmj726so we need the collaboration framework because that lets other devs make the TV very cool17:27
callumsaunders1this needs to be in tablet & phone & pc aswell17:28
dmj726yes, it should be everywhere17:28
MrChrisDruifSo either all those should be in high OR in medium, and if we'd have to call it now I'd say high (seeing the functionality of collaboration with tablet/phones)17:28
MrChrisDruifEveryone agrees on that?17:29
MrChrisDruifAlright, I'll move it up (and rephrase it after the meeting)17:29
MrChrisDruifI've put a note in the last one from the high (now at least) about collaboration with Ubuntu Phone & Tablet17:30
MrChrisDruifI think we should also let them in on the "action" and pitch in where it's logical17:31
MrChrisDruif(Luckily I've noticed that a lot from #ubuntu-phone & #ubuntu-tablet are already here)17:31
MrChrisDruifBut we still should give a shout-out to them on their mailing-lists17:32
dmj726Also, input from other devices greatly enhances our 10' UX capabilities17:32
dmj726(think typing on tablet vs typical TV keyboards for search)17:32
callumsaunders1its just gravy17:33
MrChrisDruifTrue that (or even a laptop =) )17:33
MrChrisDruifAnyhow, shall we continue down the line?17:33
dmj726maybe gravy, but definitely a pain point on traditional ui17:33
dmj726moving on17:33
MrChrisDruifAlright, next one is: Sharing media with friends17:34
callumsaunders1it's a good way to get word out17:34
MrChrisDruifWith social media, think of youtube like/dislike, facebook, twitter, diaspora, what-have-you?17:34
dmj726I think this sounds like a great plugin if done right17:34
callumsaunders1i would say low17:35
MrChrisDruifIndeed, but now it's about prioritizing =)17:35
Wellarklow +117:36
MrChrisDruifI would say medium as low is really "awful" things like home automation, which might even be more for server than tv17:36
dmj726yeah, higher than home automation, but not high17:36
MrChrisDruifBut home automation should have a friendly shell for which a TV might be a good medium17:36
MrChrisDruifSo medium is good I think17:36
callumsaunders1Home automation would be a good app for a tv17:37
MrChrisDruif+1 on that callumsaunders117:37
MrChrisDruifAlright, next is Purchasing media17:37
callumsaunders1this would mostly be web interfaces for stores?17:38
MrChrisDruifYes, I would think so. Use case: search for a movie > if it is available for purchase it gets highlighted in the search results17:39
MrChrisDruifI think of VOD (in high quality of course)17:39
callumsaunders1youtube do movies now, is that part of their api?17:40
* MrChrisDruif doesn't know, nor care at this moment17:40
callumsaunders1lol ok17:40
MrChrisDruifIs it in the right location in medium?17:40
callumsaunders1i would say medium17:40
MrChrisDruif+1 on that17:41
MrChrisDruifFirst a good basis/rich system, then we can think about financial stuff like buying content17:42
MrChrisDruifSo medium it is?17:42
MrChrisDruifSilence says it all I think, moving on =)17:43
MrChrisDruifNext has already been done I think: Home automation17:43
MrChrisDruifAnyone disagreeing with the Low priority?17:43
callumsaunders1not even sure it should be there at all17:43
MrChrisDruifThat's the advantage of low priority, we can always decide to drop it all together in a later stage, but for now I'd say keep it in =)17:44
MrChrisDruifIf Ubuntu want a complete system, then home automation should get a place in there. For the front-end I think it's a good idea to have it on TV17:45
MrChrisDruifAny other comments?17:46
callumsaunders1im happy17:46
MrChrisDruifGood to hear =)17:46
MrChrisDruifAlright, moving on17:46
MrChrisDruifThere has been an addition since yesterday: TV Guide17:47
MrChrisDruifI think this one falls under Watching Media in Essential17:47
MrChrisDruifOtherwise it could be easily implemented with the plugin system; devs what do you think?17:48
MrChrisDruifdmj726? popey? IAmNotThatGuy? Others?17:50
* AlanBell thinks mythbuntu does all of this already17:50
AlanBellit needs a unity theme17:50
AlanBellwith lancher and lens type gui17:50
AlanBellthen everything is either already done, or a mythtv plugin17:50
AlanBellalready has the 10' /3m user interface17:51
IAmNotThatGuyIf we need some changes, then we can work on that plugin17:51
AlanBellTV guide is there, weather, home automation stuff like that17:51
MrChrisDruifAlanBell; I think it was tgm4883 that already commented that we should try to use current software solutions17:52
AlanBellso a chunky launcher bar on the left selecting live tv, recorded stuff, playback of DVDs (which would already pop up in the launcher)17:52
AlanBelllens for current live channels17:52
MrChrisDruifSo if Mythbuntu already fits the bill, that would save a lot of effort17:52
AlanBellhowever, what are we targetting?17:53
MrChrisDruifHardware-wise you mean?17:53
AlanBellwhat is the hardware platform? does the OEM team have a customer hardware specification in mind?17:53
AlanBellhardware, broadband connectivity, screen resolution, screen size etc17:53
AlanBellis this for a settop box or something integrated in TVs?17:54
MrChrisDruifDo we even have a OEM team? =/17:54
AlanBellyes, canonical has an OEM team17:55
MrChrisDruifAlright, then we haven't spoken to them about that17:55
tgm4883Back for 2 minutes before the next interview17:56
AlanBellwere there concept drawings done for unity on tv when unity was being designed?17:56
MrChrisDruiftgm4883; I wanted to close up, but if you have anything to say, do so =)17:56
tgm4883looks good, the TV guide data is necessary for any DVR type functionality17:57
tgm4883AlanBell, Mythbuntu does fit the bill for a lot of this, but I think we need to change the frontend17:58
MrChrisDruifAlanBell; any suggestions for what we should do next? Speak to which teams, to get an idea of what kind of concept canonical already has envisioned for Ubuntu TV?17:58
tgm4883I don't think the MythTV frontend is capable/flashy enough for what we want17:58
tgm4883I suggested XBMC17:58
AlanBellfine, whichever17:58
tgm4883and time for interview #217:59
AlanBellwe could contribute improvements upstream for one or the other17:59
imnicholHey everyone, that meeting still happening?18:00
AlanBellis it for ARM or x86?18:00
MrChrisDruifDoes anybody feel for inquiring for this information?18:01
* popey returns18:01
MrChrisDruifAnd besides ARM or x86; settop-box or integrated18:02
popeyboth and both18:02
popeythere, that was easy18:02
popeyI dont think we're far enough down the line to make decisions about hardware platforms18:02
AlanBellfull HD?18:02
popeywhere full = 1080p18:03
AlanBellthat makes a huge difference in gui design18:03
popeyyeah, needs a massive interface18:03
popeybig fonts, big icons/pictures18:04
popeycover art etc18:04
AlanBelland crisp, svg all the way18:04
MrChrisDruifThat's the idea of 10' interface, right?18:04
popey17:58:10 < MrChrisDruif> AlanBell; any suggestions for what we should do next? Speak to which teams, to get an idea of what kind of concept canonical already has envisioned for Ubuntu TV?18:05
MrChrisDruifAnyhow, I'm wasted. Shall we call it a day?18:05
popeyDesign Team and Product Strategy18:05
MrChrisDruifThanks popey =)18:06
popey(are who you might want to speak to)18:06
imnicholAre we going to return to the idea of home automation at all?18:06
imnicholOr did I miss that?18:06
popeywillcooke and myself both work in product strategy18:06
MrChrisDruifimnichol; we will keep it low for now =)18:06
popeyand the design team live in #ubuntu-design18:06
imnicholOk cool.  I've got some concerns about the right place for it, but I'll register them later18:06
popeyI think for a first run the main focus should be "choosing video to play" and "playing video" ☺18:06
MrChrisDruifimnichol; read the logs afterwards18:07
popeywhere that content comes from who knows, how we play it, who knows..18:07
imnicholMrChrisDruif: reading them now.18:07
MrChrisDruifpopey; AlanBell; others; shall I #endmeeting ?18:07
AlanBellfine by me18:08
MrChrisDruifThanks everyone for showing up and raising your voice =)18:08
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Nov 23 18:08:46 2011 UTC.18:08
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-tv/2011/ubuntu-tv.2011-11-23-17.03.moin.txt18:08
MrChrisDruifAnyone up for putting it on the weekend and mailing list?18:09
MrChrisDruifI forgot to discuss weekly meeting, but I'll put that on the mailing list myself18:09
IAmNotThatGuyML link please18:09
IAmNotThatGuylaunchpad link of the team will be a better one ;]18:10
MrChrisDruifIAmNotThatGuy; ubuntu-tv@lists.launchpad.net ?18:10
MrChrisDruifSee topic@!18:10
IAmNotThatGuythanks man! /me was busy with the other machine18:11
MrChrisDruifAnyone wanting to put it on the wiki?18:13
MrChrisDruifNot all at once please...18:15
IAmNotThatGuyI can make a post of this meeting and share it to my friends but I am not good with meeting logging :[18:16
MrChrisDruifIt's not really though IAmNotThatGuy18:17
MrChrisDruifWhere it our wiki actually?18:18
IAmNotThatGuyMrChrisDruif, Yeah! I know. But I am preparing for Lubuntu meeting :[18:18
IAmNotThatGuyis* :P18:18
MrChrisDruifGood going, I might also attend, just to hang around18:18
MrChrisDruifAnd be obnoxious? ;-)18:19
IAmNotThatGuyI think there is no wiki yet18:19
IAmNotThatGuyfor TV18:19
MrChrisDruifMaybe we could just send the link meetingology send us? Saves us the trouble I would think =)18:23
MrChrisDruifI don't want to setup an entire wiki area right now, just to put up meeting notes18:24
MrChrisDruifI'll send the link to the mailing list and MAYBE put it up later on the wiki18:37
MrChrisDruifAlright, 2 mails out18:48
MrChrisDruifThanks IAmNotThatGuy for your email response =)18:52
M0hiMrChrisDruif, I'm here :P18:59
MrChrisDruifM0hi; ;-)19:00
M0hiMrChrisDruif, running another machine for other works which are tbd =]19:00
M0hiMrChrisDruif, we need some branding for the teams19:02
MrChrisDruifWell teams, also tablet and phone ;-)19:03
MrChrisDruifBut that are concerns for there ;-)19:03
M0hiI'veposted it in my site. try telling your friends to do the same19:08
* MrChrisDruif is off TTYL19:08
AlanBellxbmc isn't in debian yet, and that is the ITP bug report19:59
tgm4883AlanBell, I've looked through that before and it appears that  Andres Mejia is working to fix any of the issues (and most/all of them were fixed as of the latest entry)20:04
tgm4883I'm also unsure how well XBMC would work on the ARM platform, as I've not tested it myself and I've heard conflicting reports20:05
AlanBellthe latest entry from Andres Mejia was a year ago20:06
tgm4883hmm, so it is. I apparently cannot read :)20:06
tgm4883Might be worth reaching out to him and find the current status/road block20:06
AlanBellso why is xbmc considered better than mythtv?20:08
tgm4883AlanBell, regarding your earlier comments about Mythbuntu (since I now have more time), I think as a DVR backend that it would work great, but for the scope of this project since TV recording isn't a requirement MythTV might not fit the bill. Also, the MythTV frontend looks a bit dated and is missing some of the functionality that XBMC has (likely because XBMC has more developers)20:09
tgm4883Full disclosure, I'm a Mythbuntu developer20:09
AlanBellok, I ask because I don't know much about this area at all :)20:09
AlanBellwhat is the scope of this project?20:10
tgm4883I believe it is to be a more open apple tv type device20:10
tgm4883I think recording needs to be an option, but not required20:11
tgm4883AlanBell, are you on the mailing list? There has been some good discussion there regarding scope20:11
AlanBellok, read the archives now20:18
dmj726Hmm...I would think recording should be fairly central if there is available storage20:26
AlanBellmaybe, maybe not20:27
dmj726Why would recording not be a desirable feature these days?20:29
AlanBellif your storage is in the cloud and you have loadsa bandwidth20:30
dmj726but wouldn't that just mean recording to the cloud?20:31
AlanBelldunno, maybe the cloud records it for you and streams it to you as required20:32
AlanBellmaybe the cloud is a box in your house with storage20:32
dmj726well, the TV would record it to whatever media is available20:32
AlanBellanyhow, I think listing specific features is a bit of an odd place to start20:32
dmj726AlanBell: I'd agree with that statement20:33
dmj726just saying it seems like an obvious use case: UbuntuTV acts as a PVR20:33
AlanBellyeah, I have nothing against it :)20:33
dmj726Can pretty much guarantee that an Ubuntu TV that could do scheduled recording would be attractive for my parents house20:35
AlanBellso the vision for this project is Unity on a telly20:35
dmj726Yeah, I can see Unity working really well if adapted for arrow key interface20:36
AlanBellthere has been very little discussion of unity so far20:36
AlanBellI think the starting point for this project is to figure out what the best platform is for implementing Unity on a telly20:37
dmj726AlanBell: I'm thinking that people are still trying to see the big picture of what this thing is trying to be20:37
dmj726Basically, you're talking about the how, whereas discussion of features is more of the why20:38
dmj726both are important20:38
dmj726and knowing the use cases makes how we use Unity more clear20:39
imnicholWe were using the etherpad yesterday to try to figure out what we're trying to do20:42
imnicholI think the data's still up there20:42
imnicholYup it is20:43
dmj726imnichol: Yeah, I think that's a useful document to gauge what we need to make a unity-centric system do20:44
imnicholAlthough now that i look at it, it still suffers from "how do we do this" syndrome20:44
imnicholWhen we really need more "what are we doing"20:44
AlanBellyeah, but we are not going to build a new media centre20:45
AlanBellwe can integrate and distribute one20:45
dmj726I don't want Yet-Another-Media-Center20:45
imnicholWhat *do* we want?20:45
AlanBellhttp://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/820 that is the starting point really20:46
dmj726What I want is something that is a TV and can replace a media center, but provides a great platform for social/collaborative experiences.20:46
dmj726The PC, the phone, and the tablet are the personal screens, while the TV is the shared screen that connects them.20:49
dmj726The TV should be simple for passive use like watching TV, and seamless for active use (think how people use video game consoles)20:50
AlanBellthat is a reasonable stab at a concept for unity on a phone20:51
dmj726I saw a nice one on the ayatana list too20:51
AlanBellI think there should be some sketches of unity on a telly20:51
dmj726AlanBell: Have you used or seen Maemo or Meego?20:51
dmj726for phones they got multitasking spot on20:52
AlanBellnot used them, seen screenshots20:52
dmj726and their menus worked well too20:53
dmj726Obviously not quite right for a TV20:55
dmj726do we have anyone in the channel to do some sketches20:55
dmj726anything I do would just get the gist of it, not be pretty20:56
dmj726It definitely needs to autohide both launcher and panel20:58
dmj726and I'm not entirely sure the panel is a good idea in its current form20:58
AlanBellyeah, I don't think the panel quite fits21:00
AlanBellthe clock might sometimes21:00
AlanBelland things should probably always be fullscreen21:01
AlanBellso I think we should figure out the visual design of it, then figure out what media centre can do that, then find out what features or applications that does21:02
AlanBellso if it has a weather app then yay, we get a weather icon in the launcher21:02
AlanBellif it has games/home control/etc. they go in the launcher, if not then we don't have them21:03
AlanBellif it does recording of live tv, then awesome, we get that21:04
AlanBellif it doesn't right now then we don't have that until someone (possibly canonical) contribute such code upstream21:04
dmj726Well, I suspect we'll have to write a fair amount of front end code21:06
dmj726So Unity and our interface scheme plus whatever media center21:07
AlanBellfront end and integration code, yes21:08
dmj726tgm4883: Do myth and xbmc allow themselves to play nice with a composited window manager?21:09
AlanBelland depending on the media centre there might be opportunities to fit in other ubuntuish stuff like a U1 file browser or streaming from U1 thing21:09
dmj726I think with launcher we can handle multiple apps fairly well21:09
tgm4883dmj726, mythtv does not play well with compiz unless you turn on legacy support, I'm unsure of how xbmc handles it21:10
AlanBellbut take a broad view of what "unity" is21:10
AlanBellif it looks like unity then it is unity :)21:10
dmj726so if our media center plays well as being one window with several others21:10
tgm4883I don't think Unity desktop really fits into a media center21:10
tgm4883unless you are discussing theming a 10' UI to look like Unity, then maybe it works21:10
dmj726then we can have someone switch to another fullscreen task21:11
popeyit doesnt have to look exactly like current unity21:11
tgm4883I still disagree with that though21:11
AlanBellit has to have a launcher on the left with buttons on it21:11
dmj726tgm4883: does myth play well with any window manager21:11
AlanBelldoesn't have to be NUX or Qt or anything like that21:11
dmj726or does it need to be the root window21:11
tgm4883dmj726, mythtv runs fine on any window manager, you can run it with compiz you will just see the gnome panels21:12
tgm4883or the top panel in unity (not sure about the launch bar)21:12
tgm4883Mythbuntu uses XFCE21:12
dmj726tgm4883: ah, that's fine then21:13
popeydid you see the ask mark session earlier?21:13
dmj726so we just slide any unity UI elements out of the way when not in use21:13
tgm4883dmj726, AlanBell so are you guys discussing having a 10' UI that launches other applications for video/music/etc?21:13
dmj726tgm4883: yes21:13
tgm4883that is a bad idea IMO21:14
dmj726one of (probably the main one) being the media center ui21:14
tgm4883how do I control banshee and totem with a IR remote control?21:14
tgm4883Not to mention it looks crap when switching between applications21:15
dmj726tgm4883: We don't launch apps made for desktop21:15
tgm4883dmj726, so what apps do we launch then?21:15
dmj726all of this would be 10' centric21:15
AlanBelllaunch things that are designed to work with a media centre framework21:15
tgm4883so apps that we develop specifically for this media center?21:15
dmj726tgm4883: yes21:15
dmj726us and third parties21:16
imnicholDoes anyone have a link to a definition of "10' UI"?21:16
tgm4883dmj726, AlanBell so plugin support then :)21:16
AlanBellwhich is already there, yes21:16
dmj726imnichol: A UI that can be used from across the room21:16
imnicholI've seen it thrown around a lot and I'm not exactly sure what it means21:16
tgm4883imnichol, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-foot_user_interface21:16
AlanBellimnichol: 10' means about 3 meters21:16
imnicholWell then I don't see how there are any problems with Unity as a 10'UI21:16
imnicholExcept the top panel21:16
imnicholWhich we've discussed removing21:17
AlanBellAmericans and their silly measurements21:17
tgm4883There is a lot of wasted space21:17
dmj726imnichol: you also can't count on mouse and keyboard always with a 10' UI21:17
AlanBella big chunky unity launcher21:17
popeyi dont think anyone would run banshee on their telly21:17
tgm4883dmj726, imnichol in fact, count on not having either21:17
imnicholFWIW, the Unity launcher is hidden unless you call it up21:17
dmj726you might only have the equivalent of a dpad and enter key21:17
imnicholUsually that's done using the "windows" key or moving the mouse21:18
imnicholBut I don't see why you couldn't just use the "menu" key on the remote21:18
AlanBellyes, menu to bring in the launcher from the side21:18
AlanBellremote control cursors to navigate it21:18
AlanBellperhaps a button to press the BFB at the top and get a lens to pop out21:19
tgm4883What is the point in hiding it though, other than that is what the desktop does?21:19
AlanBellso you can watch telly :)21:19
imnicholIf we engineer this for an input device that is too simple, then we'll lose all of our ability to do the cool stuff21:19
imnicholtgm4883: because you don't need to see it unless you want to change what you are doing, it's wasted space if you're just watching TV21:20
dmj726imnichol: That's why I've been proposing additional input methods21:20
dmj726imnichol: We should allow all basic functions using a standard remote21:20
imnicholI agree21:20
dmj726However, we should also allow applications to be controlled in a more advanced way21:20
tgm4883imnichol, TV should be full screen, and have an OSD that is only brought up when requested via remote21:20
tgm4883exiting TV should bring you back to the media center21:21
imnicholSo I'm confused about the hate for unity in this situation, since the entire point of unity is that it's out of the way until you need it21:21
imnicholtgm4883: OSD?21:21
dmj726imnichol: I don't think there's hate here21:21
tgm4883On screen display21:21
dmj726just discussion that a few adjustments need to be made to go from the desktop to a really good TV UI21:22
tgm4883what is the use case for having the ability to pop up the unity launcher while I'm watching a video?21:22
imnichol"hate" was an analogy21:22
tgm4883an analogy for hate! :)21:22
dmj726tgm4883: So you can go do something else21:22
tgm4883FWIW, I like Unity for a desktop21:22
dmj726Unity is mostly fine.  Global menu bugs me for 1920x1200 displays21:23
imnicholtgm4883: Most of my questions were directed at you're comment that "I don't think Unity desktop really fits into a media center".  I'm just curious about what you think :)21:24
tgm4883dmj726, so the two things we are discussing are A) You are watching a video and want to listen to music instead, so you open up the launcher and launch the music app while you are in the video.  VS B) You are watching a video and want to listen to music so you exit the video and launch the music app21:24
tgm4883does that about sum it up21:24
tgm4883basically, being able to launch another app while still in another application vs having to exit first?21:25
imnicholtgm4883: ok I think I get what you're saying21:25
dmj726I would say better to be able to keep both up21:26
dmj726but only have playback of whatever happen in whatever has focus21:26
imnicholI disagree with that21:26
imnicholI'd like to be able to browse the internet temporarily while still listening to the big game in the background21:27
dmj726imnichol: okay I'll amend the statement21:27
imnichol(I have never watched the big game in my life)21:27
tgm4883I think Internet on the TV from a media center perspective is overrated21:27
dmj726have default apps respect certain signals21:28
dmj726so the music player doesn't keep playing while you start a video21:28
dmj726tgm4883: I disagree21:28
dmj726It's only overrated if your browser sucks and you only have a remote control to control it from21:28
tgm4883dmj726, do you have a keyboard and mouse connected to your media center?21:28
imnicholdmj726: why not just pause the music then?21:28
AlanBellhave a look at what media centres look like e.g. http://xbmc.org/skins/confluence/ and think about how things could be mapped onto a launcher/lens type look and feel21:29
dmj726If I had a tablet to control the browser and wanted to show something to a group, it would be awesome21:29
tgm4883dmj726, use case, why use the TV to temp browse the web?21:29
AlanBellpossibly including playback controls in the panel area21:29
tgm4883AlanBell, is that directed at me?21:29
AlanBellnot directed at anyone in particular21:30
dmj726so I wouldn't regard a web browser as something to use with a remote, but a TV certainly can be useful21:30
tgm4883dmj726, that is completely different and something we actually have on the wishlist21:30
dmj726tgm4883: I know it's on the wishlist21:30
tgm4883dmj726, the ability to shoot content from a tablet to the TV21:30
tgm4883dmj726, but that doesn't require a web browser on the TV. Even if it did, not a full web browser21:30
imnicholI wish we could video chat, I think we're missing each other's points here21:31
AlanBellvideo chat would be something I would want on the telly incidentally :)21:31
dmj726tgm4883: Actually a web browser controlled via the phone but running on the TV would be a good thing21:31
imnicholdmj726: I agree21:31
tgm4883AlanBell, I agree, I think we could get something similar to Unity using something like XBMC, but I don't want to see this on my TV  http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/TWbk116J3FI/AAAAAAAADIo/BdBOuK9NnSQ/unity-screenshot.png21:31
dmj726you don't want everything to be a bunch of vnc sessions over the wifi21:31
tgm4883+1 to video chat on the TV21:32
AlanBelltgm4883: no, the launcher should be about twice as chunky21:32
AlanBellit shouldn't be a desktop, it should just look unityish21:32
tgm4883AlanBell, meh, it should probably go all the way across and have banners for each item21:32
dmj726Actually, the launcher does look about like your typical bluray OSD21:33
AlanBellalso think about the dash and lenses21:33
tgm4883AlanBell, What about something simlar to this for each item http://wiki.xbmc.org/images/f/fb/Wide1.jpg  (only looking at the bottom right section) Having a wide banner for "Videos" "Music" "Pictures" etc21:34
tgm4883That could be made to look unityish21:34
tgm4883I think that would be a brilliant design and could be made to resemble Unity21:36
AlanBellor videos/library/tv shows as launcher buttons, the programs in a lens (groups for heros, house, it crowd with episodes in the groups) and the stuff on the left as lens filters21:36
tgm4883I'm going to have to learn more about lenses, I just switched to Unity from Gnome-shell not too long ago21:36
imnicholtgm4883: Spoilers: THey rock21:37
AlanBellso click the dash button, then more apps21:37
AlanBellyou have goups for most frequently used, installed and apps available for download21:37
tgm4883hmm, I could see that being *Really* useful. If you went into recordings, and you had just wanted the first three episodes of some show it could list the next couple episodes21:38
tgm4883depending on viewing habit and such21:38
tgm4883If anyone uses MythTV, this would be similar to the watch list21:39
imnicholAlanBell: so you're advocating for basically reskinning xbmc?21:39
tgm4883but yes, I think selecting one of the items and then showing a few views in the lense would be great21:39
AlanBellreskinning and integrating $mediacentre21:39
tgm4883imnichol, I've advocated that a few times21:40
imnicholtgm4883: Yeah I know, I wanted to make sure I had Alan's point right21:40
tgm4883views being (next in recently watched, new content, etc)21:40
AlanBellimnichol: yeah, that is right, but I am not totally convinced mythtv is out of the running yet21:40
dmj726I'm not sure we should tie everything into being part of the XBMC UI21:41
tgm4883dmj726, XBMC is an example of something that already does (or is in the process of developing) most things that we want21:41
imnicholI actually prefer the idea of just tweaking Unity slightly and then having all of the various things we want to do (watch tv, video chat, etc) as applications on the unity menu or whever we want to put them21:42
AlanBellmythtv has the advantage of acutally being in the repos, so it got through all the legal and licensing issues and is supportable21:42
tgm4883AlanBell, I just think that the requirement that MythTV places on needing a recording device doesn't fit in line here21:42
dmj726not saying XBMC shouldn't be a key part of what we're doing21:42
dmj726same for Myth21:42
tgm4883AlanBell, but I DO think we need to support existing DVR backends for the recording/scheduling functionality21:43
tgm4883MythTV being one of those backends21:43
AlanBellmythtv has its issues no doubt, XBMC not being in ubuntu is a bit of a show stopper though21:44
dmj726I prefer keeping Unity, making tweeks as necessary21:44
tgm4883can we get a quick idea about what media center's people currently use and what control devices they have?21:44
dmj726integrate it well with whatever media center we use21:44
AlanBelldmj726: that is one possible implementation of the design :)21:44
tgm4883I use MythTV, although I've started to use XBMC as a frontend to that. I have an IR remote control and also an android app on my phone21:45
dmj726I don't currently have a media center, though I do have an Asus Oplay, which is similar21:49
imnicholJust basic cable21:50
AlanBellthe .ep files that open in pencil are in that folder too22:29
MrChrisDruifThree quick mockups for Unity UI TV thing?22:32
* MrChrisDruif looks at them more closely tomorrow, off to bed now22:34
MrChrisDruifSleep well AlanBell when the time cometh22:35
tgm4883AlanBell, looks great. I think the background needs to change based on currently selected item (or have the option to switch between the dynamic and static backgrounds). Also, should have the ability to remove main window entry options (eg. removing movies, or weather)22:41
dmj726AlanBell: so the BFB brings up a dash that lets users browse via lenses for applications or shows?22:57
dmj726(or whatever lens they pick)22:58
AlanBellI was thinking the background would be the thing playing22:58
AlanBelltellytubbies in that example22:59
AlanBellcan you name them all?22:59
dmj726makes sense to have background always be the playing thing (or whatever the user was just doing)22:59
AlanBellthe launcher should be translucent too probably23:00
dmj726Yeah, probably do the blurring thing it does on desktop23:00
AlanBellI think it would be great to see more designs like that for unityish user interfaces mapped to media centre concepts, on a 1920x1080 proportioned layout23:01
AlanBellwhich is 480x270 at quarter size23:01
dmj726btw, what did you use to make those pics?23:02
AlanBellit is a firefox plugin23:02
AlanBellor extension23:02
dmj726ah, there's a standalone version too23:05
AlanBellI put the source files in http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unitytelly23:05
AlanBellyeah, standalone version is a bit broken as it depends on xulrunner which isn't in oneiric23:06
dmj726will try it out later23:06
AlanBellI think23:06
dmj726hmm...I do have a maverick box23:06
AlanBellit works basically like a standalone app, you just launch it from firefox23:07
AlanBellyou can even close firefox after you have launched it23:07
AlanBellI am going to try to get the design team to use pencil and make an Ubuntu widget set for it, so you have a thing for drawing an ubuntu window with buttons on the left etc23:08
AlanBelland an easy lens widget for example23:09
dmj726yeah, easy launcher too23:09
AlanBellyes, mine looks a bit rubbish23:17
AlanBellit is important for these things to look a little sketchy23:17
dmj726AlanBell: why's that?23:20
AlanBellso people don't feel shy about pointing out problems23:20
dmj726ah, and don't get too attached to the ooh pretty23:21
dmj726one thing I notice that doesn't feel right is the playback controls at the top of the screen23:21
AlanBellif you google paper prototyping you sill see stuff about it23:22
dmj726for some reason it's always felt more natural at the bottom, might just be familiarity23:22
AlanBellyeah, I saw one of the xbmc things had controls at the top23:22
AlanBellI think the progress bar as the top panel kind of works23:22
dmj726progress bar didn't phase me where it was23:23
AlanBellthat would kind of be your position in the program if it was a recorded thing23:24
dmj726I once prototyped a mobile video editor UI on a 3.5" piece of paper taped to a (box of a) deck of cards23:24
dmj726ah, progress bar as you call it should be shown with the playback controls I think23:25
dmj726If you're not messing with playback, you maybe don't need to be looking at your progress?23:26
AlanBellI was thinking of it as a draggable or clickable thing23:26
dmj726We also may have to deal with TV safe region btw23:26
AlanBelland it would fade away when you are watching23:26
AlanBelllauncher would slide off to the left, top panel (whatever is in it) would slide or fade upwards23:27
dmj726Do have an option for permanent timecode, or whatever overlay I think, but make that a special toggle23:27
AlanBellclock top right could be permanent overlay23:27
AlanBelland any other indicators23:28
dmj726What if the launcher automatically showed any apps/projects that somebody had sent a message to open23:47
dmj726So somebody says "Open this project on TV" on their tablet, and it opens up in the launcher23:47
dmj726and the launcher flashes that it's available for the moment23:48
AlanBellcool, tablet/phone/computer integration with the TV interface sounds nice23:49
imnicholThat seems ok, but why not just have it open up automatically?23:49
AlanBellcould be done over avahi or something23:49
AlanBellsketch it up :)23:49
imnicholFWIW, Apple's new file transfer thing in Lion uses avahi23:49
AlanBellyeah, apple invented most of the avahi stuff23:50
dmj726imnichol: I'm debating the automatic vs flash in the launcher23:50
imnicholAirdrop.  That's the name, it was really bugging me23:50
dmj726That actually might be a legitimate case for a preference.23:50
dmj726depending on if you have annoying people in the house that like to mess with the tv23:51
dmj726three options: 1) switch to new task immediately 2) stay on current task but display launcher with flashing icon 3) place icon in launcher but do not show launcher automatically23:52
imnicholThose all sound good.23:53
imnicholDo you think there should be an option to just disable it entirely?23:53
dmj7261) is useful for several people working together 2) and 3) are useful for households with an annoying individual who thinks its funny to interrupt someone's viewing experience23:53
dmj726imnichol: 3) is effectively disabled since you wouldn't notice it unless you specifically checked the launcher23:54
imnichol#3 would allow an annoying person to spam the launcher with a bunch of tasks23:55
dmj726if you really don't want stuff appearing in the launcher (which basically shows everything running on the system) you shouldn't give said person access to your system23:55
imnicholAlthough it may not be necessary depending on how the phones/tablets/computers are authenticated to the tv23:55
AlanBellprobably best to focus on the single device use-case first23:56
dmj726we do want authentication.  Random person can just use the remote, not access all your apps with their tablet23:56
AlanBellTV+remote control23:56
dmj726AlanBell: Well I want to make sure this is compatible with the expanded use case, even if it's not implemented right away, otherwise there will be backtracking23:57
dmj726at least in general design23:58
dmj726I would say for authenticated devices (however we authenticate them), allow #1, #2, or #3 to be an option.23:59
AlanBellfor the phone/tablet linkup I would think that just a vnc connection (maybe a wayland thing . . .) to just clone the display to your phone/tablet would give you touch control for the big screen23:59
dmj726picking whichever default seems sanest23:59

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