[01:13] <snap-l> Howdy
[01:19] <greg-g> yo yo
[01:19] <greg-g> going to be a quiet few days :)
[01:20] <greg-g> so...
[01:20] <greg-g> I may or may not have bricked my WRT54G
[01:20] <greg-g> but!
[01:20] <greg-g> I received my new Nikon D3100 in the mail!
[01:20] <snap-l> NIce
[01:20] <snap-l> WHat'd you do to the wrt65g?
[01:21] <greg-g> I was going to do dd-wrt, but I decided to test flashing with the updated firmware from linksys
[01:21] <greg-g> *that* borked
[01:22] <snap-l> Ugh
[01:22] <rick_h_> yea, quiet
[01:22] <rick_h_> greg-g: woot
[01:22] <rick_h_> oops
[01:22] <snap-l> I think you can unbrick from that.
[01:24] <greg-g> hopefully
[01:32] <greg-g> nope
[01:32] <greg-g> need to do JTAG
[01:33] <greg-g> (if that'll work)
[01:33] <greg-g> and ef me, I don't want to fuck with JTAG for this shit
[01:42] <greg-g> new toy, take the pain away!
[01:51]  * greg-g taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps taps on his keyboard waiting for the battery to charge
[01:52] <rick_h_> heh
[01:52] <rick_h_> tap more
[02:06] <snap-l> JTAG?
[02:13] <greg-g> snap-l: http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/JTAG
[02:24] <snap-l> Ugh
[02:28] <greg-g> yeah :(
[02:29] <greg-g> might have to head to noisebridge and introduce myself (the most popular hacker space in SF)
[02:49] <jjesse> evening
[02:49] <rick_h_> party
[02:50] <jjesse> yeah?
[02:55] <Blazeix> how's the yui theatre thing going?
[03:02] <Blazeix> rick_h_: were you the one who bookmarked the async UIs link on bookie? curious about your opinion on that
[03:03] <Blazeix> that's a big problem at work; the company that made the UI went full async, so they try to guess what the server response will be. And often guess incorrectly
[03:22] <greg-g> http://www.flickr.com/photos/grggrssmr/6392626957/
[03:32] <rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, I bookmarked it
[03:32] <rick_h_> I like the idea, but you have to have a really good notification system in place I think
[03:32] <rick_h_> because you have to be ready to handle failures
[03:32] <rick_h_> and preferably a queue you can walk back and "undo" things with
[03:32] <rick_h_> but I like the idea, to get more of a native feel and less "spinner loading..." going on
[03:33] <rick_h_> but yea, if you fail fairly often, it can be a headache
[03:33] <Blazeix> yeah, the idea seems great. I guess for simple apps it might work, but anything with server-side business logic or multiple-user concurrency suffers
[03:34] <rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, I've not used it a ton tbh, so it was more "this sounds good...let's try to do more of it"
[03:34] <rick_h_> than "I'm a convert, this or bust!"
[03:34] <Blazeix> we're currently trying to convince the other team to introduce spinners, or at least disable ui elements until the server response comes in
[03:34] <rick_h_> yea, see I'm seeing that in LP we've got some horrible timings on things
[03:34] <Blazeix> rick_h_: yeah, definitely, just trying to get other perspectives :)
[03:34] <rick_h_> 2-4s
[03:34] <rick_h_> and spinner for that is just not going to work
[03:35] <rick_h_> so I'd rather say we had an operations queue, and try to deal with things better
[03:35] <rick_h_> then again, we're a freaking mess...and getting a real queue into the process means touching so much damn code right now
[03:35] <Blazeix> yeah, more and more we find ourselves implementing COMET notification for client apps. feels like a bit of a cop-out, but it's so damn useful
[03:36] <rick_h_> heh yea
[03:36] <Blazeix> is that a client-side queue for requests/responses, or a server side queue for incoming requests
[03:36] <rick_h_> I was thinking something similar, it might make more sense/be easier when you start using websockets and webworkers
[03:36] <rick_h_> Blazeix: I'm thinking more like an undo stack
[03:37] <Blazeix> ah, gotcha
[03:37] <rick_h_> "hey, the user said delete this, here's a ref to the node, and a callback, if it fails...run restore on that
[03:37] <rick_h_> "if it succeeds, pop it off the queue
[03:37] <rick_h_> basically try to abstract it so that it's just part of any xhr request kind of thing
[03:38] <rick_h_> at least in theory that's what I'd shoot for I think
[03:38] <Blazeix> ah, yeah, our client app does something like that, some of the feedback we got complained about poltergeists, as elements started jumping around for long request/response
[03:38] <rick_h_> why wait for the spinner if I want to walk through and delete 10 items in quick hurry
[03:38] <rick_h_> yea, I think that's the notification stuff
[03:38] <rick_h_> you'd want to go "hey, I can't delete user XX, the server says: ERROR"
[03:38] <rick_h_> and then on clicking/ack'ing the notification, the div is restored or something
[03:39] <rick_h_> it'd take some working for sure
[03:39] <rick_h_> but again, if the UI is very interactive, I think it's a win
[03:39] <rick_h_> I think that's the big bar, how much interaction do you expect, and is there enough to want to smooth it out
[03:39] <Blazeix> ah, restoring the element once the user acknowledges the error is interesting
[03:40] <Blazeix> I need to take a look at spine. I sort of grok backbone now, and spine seems slightly more structured
[03:40] <rick_h_> yea, I mean you take away the "in your face" on success, but make it more "in your face" on fail
[03:40] <Blazeix> right
[03:40] <rick_h_> we watched the YUI MVC video, they've got some good stuff there
[03:40] <rick_h_> very backbone-ish, but built on YUIs bits
[03:41] <rick_h_> actaully created a class Pjax lol
[03:42] <Blazeix> I've added yui theater to my rss feeds, so hopefully I can start keeping up on them.
[03:42] <rick_h_> it's a wave, they're mainly YUIConf videos
[03:42] <rick_h_> but normally good stuff
[03:42] <rick_h_> I want to see the crockford future of JS
[03:42] <rick_h_> we only got through one tonight
[05:14] <greg-g> the photography world amazes me in their control freakism: "o protect against Copyright Infringement, Nikon offers two versions of our current product manuals. A fully printable manual for existing owners (which requires a valid, North American, Nikon camera serial number and registration to download) and a non-printable version for others (no serial number required)."
[05:14] <greg-g> s/"o/"To/
[05:14] <greg-g> they capitalized Copyright Infringement to show you they mean business
[12:28] <snap-l> Happy THanksgiving, everyone
[12:28] <snap-l> greg-g: I find it adorable that people think setting a little bit prevents printing
[12:56] <rick_h_> morning, and happy thanksgiving
[13:00] <snap-l> I got a note from Eric Ferraiuolo via twitter last night
[13:00] <snap-l> (presenter of the video we watched)
[13:01] <mydogsnameisrudy> happy turkey day
[13:54] <rick_h_> snap-l: oh yea?
[13:55] <rick_h_> snap-l: awesome
[14:11] <brousch> snap-l: cease and desist for public performance?
[14:19] <snap-l> brousch: No, thankfully
[18:31] <greg-g> happy thanksgiving everyone!
[20:34] <snap-l>  and to you as well!
[20:34] <snap-l> stuffed
[20:34] <_stink_> ate already?  i love the early meals
[20:35] <_stink_> but in-laws are waiting until 5
[20:35] <_stink_> :|
[20:40] <snap-l> ugh
[20:40] <snap-l> earlier thr better
[20:41] <snap-l> i dont like waiting for holiday meals
[20:41] <snap-l> makes everything go slower
[20:41] <_stink_> heh