[07:56] <dholbach> good morning
[08:00] <nigelb> Morning dholbach!
[08:00] <dholbach> hey nigelb
[08:20] <dpm> good morning all
[08:22] <dholbach> hola dpm
[08:24] <dpm> سلام
[08:24] <nigelb> Guten Morgen dpm
[08:24] <nigelb> (did I get the spelling right?)
[08:24] <dpm> നമസ്കാരം nigelb
[08:24]  * nigelb is blown away
[08:25] <nigelb> That. Was. Epic.
[08:25] <dpm> :)
[08:25] <dholbach> dpm: سلام to you too
[08:26] <dholbach> നമസ്കാരം I can't read :)
[08:26] <dpm> it's hello in Malayalam :)
[08:31] <dholbach> nice
[08:35] <alourie> good morning
[08:43] <dpm> morning alourie
[09:39] <laoshi> ⰄⰑⰁⰓⰋ ⰄⰅⰐⰠ
[10:24] <dholbach> dpm, I just started the discussion around renaming the guide
[10:25] <dpm> ah, cool
[10:27] <dholbach> jcastro, can you explain to me how the UOW schedule is going to look like for a 3-day event?
[10:28] <dholbach> so I can reuse it for UDW :)
[10:38] <dholbach> jcastro, nevermind, figured it out
[10:57] <nigelb> dholbach: In case you didn't, shorter sessions :)
[11:01] <dholbach> nigelb, I just started earlier and finished later :)
[11:02] <nigelb> :)
[11:02] <Pendulum> dholbach: theoretically things should be in 30 minute slots now (with people having the option to take more than one slot if they need an hour)
[11:03] <dholbach> oh
[11:03] <dholbach> hum
[11:03] <dholbach> hmhmhmhmhmhmhm
[11:03] <Pendulum> but I suspect it's going to be a trial and error thing in some ways
[11:03] <Pendulum> (I can see how it'll work well for some weeks and less well for others)
[11:04] <dholbach> it might invite more folks to give sessions, as it's less of a commitment to do only half an hour
[11:04] <dholbach> and make the whole thing more fast-paced
[11:04] <Pendulum> yeah
[11:04] <dholbach> I'll update in a bit
[11:05] <Pendulum> I was thinking where it'll be trickier are some of the tutorials or wider subjects (for example when I was doing User Day sessions on accessibility, I often ran out of time or came close to doing so)
[11:14]  * AlanBell thinks the open weeks should be marketed way more
[11:14] <popey> +1
[11:20] <AlanBell> posters on the tube, TV ads, banners dragged by aircraft, that kind of thing
[11:21] <AlanBell> well, perhaps not quite that, but we end up building one of the biggest Free Software conferences in the world, with loads of speakers, high value content and we don't market it like you would market Fossdem or Oggcamp or whatever
[11:26] <nigelb> *whee*
[11:26] <nigelb> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-P1QGdf9aGBg/Ts91wnc22JI/AAAAAAAACEM/VJhbcTMZFQI/s1600/mozcamp-asia-2011.jpg
[11:27] <Pendulum> I have trouble thinking of UOW as a conference because IMO conferences are about much more than the presentations and it's the side things that make a conference a conference for me
[11:27] <AlanBell> nigelb: second row, 4th from the left?
[11:27] <Pendulum> so networking and the side chatter
[11:28] <Pendulum> but certainly it's a training week
[11:28] <nigelb> AlanBell: I don't even know where the rows start, but I'm in an Orange T-shirt ;)
[11:30] <AlanBell> oh, bright orange near the back on the left? I got it totally wrong then
[11:30] <nigelb> haha
[11:30] <nigelb> Yeah, that one.
[11:31] <AlanBell> Pendulum: yeah, I understand it is not the same, but I think the marketing resources should be similar to a real world event with a comparable speaker list, and right now I don't think it is
[11:32] <Pendulum> I think it has to become more accessible to a real world audience. IRC is very geek-oriented
[11:32] <Pendulum> and I even know some geeks who don't use it because they find it confusing or too distracting
[11:33] <Pendulum> and while lernid has made it easier, it's not always possible to use (especially if one is trying to access from work as many UOW attendees do)
[11:33] <AlanBell> IRC is a bit geeky, "teh internetz" isn't so much
[11:34] <AlanBell> it is a text only conference, with a great speaker lineup
[11:34] <AlanBell> maybe a dedicated glossier web client for #ubuntu-classroom would help
[11:38] <Pendulum> if there was a web interface closer to lernid (so could see both channels in one webpage without clicking back and forth, etc.) it might help
[11:39] <AlanBell> http://www.digdang.com/media/images/its_a_whale_6424.jpg maybe something like this :)
[11:40] <pangolin> hahaha
[11:42] <AlanBell> something glossy, realtime, and more paragraphy, with less timestamps and nicks, maybe avatars
[11:44] <Pendulum> *snort*
[11:46] <nigelb> I just misread one of the words in AlanBell's list. *shudder*
[11:50] <duanedesign> morning all
[11:51] <duanedesign> I spotted nigelb in mozcamp-asia-2011.jpg
[11:51] <duanedesign> :)
[11:51] <nigelb> dholbach: :)
[11:51] <nigelb> err
[11:51] <nigelb> duanedesign: :)
[11:52] <nigelb> dholbach: UNPING :P
[11:52] <nigelb> ... and I just pinged him twice :)
[11:52] <duanedesign> nigelb: you had a good time at mozcamp?
[11:52] <nigelb> duanedesign: Yep. It was more condensed than UDS.
[11:53] <nigelb> I was running around making it to sessions.
[11:53] <nigelb> I want a time machine for all conferences I attend.
[11:53] <nigelb> Just to attend all the sessions.
[11:53] <duanedesign> :D
[11:53] <duanedesign> nigelb: wow, i cant imaginee
[11:54] <duanedesign> i usually spend several days after UDS just going back over all my notes so i can 'digest' everything
[11:55] <nigelb> heh
[11:55] <dholbach> nigelb, "OK" :)
[11:56]  * nigelb hugs dholbach :)
[12:01]  * dholbach hugs you all
[12:12] <cjohnston> mornin
[12:28] <bkerensa> I keep hoping that some bad updates will come through soon because right now Precise Pangolin is running much to smooth considering it is in pre-alpha :D
[12:36] <AlanBell> acessibility was rather broken last week, but that is fixed now
[12:36] <AlanBell> fixed as in not completely broken when using with orca
[12:40] <bkerensa> AlanBell: Only thing I have ran into is Software Center not seeming to work
[12:42] <czajkowski> I noticed yesterday on my N machine my login screen is rather different from what it should be on a clean insall :/
[12:45] <bkerensa> czajkowski: Running 12.04?
[12:45] <czajkowski> yup
[12:45] <czajkowski> my login screen in the center
[12:45] <bkerensa> czajkowski: You mean the 11.10 login splash branding :D
[12:45] <czajkowski> rather than to the left
[12:45] <bkerensa> huh
[12:45] <bkerensa> Mine is to the left :D
[12:50] <czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/7jee62
[12:52] <popey> czajkowski: do you have the package lightdm-gtk-greeter installed?
[12:52] <AlanBell> that looks more like gdm
[12:53] <popey> yeah, looks like there's a gnome shell top to that
[12:53] <czajkowski> popey: nope
[12:54] <popey> is lightdm installed?
[12:54] <czajkowski> popey: nope it's not insalled
[12:54] <popey> thats why yours looks different
[12:54] <czajkowski> I only noticed as the guy beside me in work the other day did a clean install and I saw the login screen
[12:54] <czajkowski> popey: thanks will install now
[12:54] <czajkowski> wonder why it didnt update during the upgrade
[12:55] <czajkowski> popey: thank you
[12:55] <AlanBell> do you have ubuntu-desktop installed?
[12:55] <popey> yeah, actually thats the easy fix
[12:55] <popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
[12:55] <popey> (with the hat)
[12:56] <AlanBell> upgrades only pull in new stuff if you have ubuntu-desktop to pull them in for you
[12:56] <czajkowski> ohhh lotta updates
[12:56] <AlanBell> popey: what does the hat do?
[12:56] <popey> heh
[12:56] <czajkowski> yer a bunch of smart lads :)
[12:56] <popey> installs the task
[12:57] <popey> so will pull any dependants in
[12:57] <popey> without the hat it will install the package
[12:57] <popey> which wont
[12:57] <AlanBell> ok, interesting
[12:58] <popey> its a good way to make sure you're not missing some standard bits
[12:58] <pangolin> TIL ^ are cool
[12:58] <czajkowski> thanks for the tip
[12:58] <pangolin> thank you popey :)
[12:59] <czajkowski> reboot
[13:00] <popey> pangolin: TIL?
[13:00] <pangolin> today I learned
[13:01] <popey> ah
[13:01] <pangolin> that is a neat tip
[13:01] <pangolin> How did you learn that one?
[13:01] <popey> a developer told me ages ago
[13:01] <dholbach> TIL = touched it last
[13:02] <pangolin> I use it for today I learned :P
[13:02] <dholbach> (whenever you ask who maintains <package XYZ> :-))
[13:02] <popey> Time In Lieu
[13:02] <popey> heh
[13:05] <czajkowski> hmmm
[13:05] <czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/7jelpb
[13:05] <czajkowski> no change
[13:05] <popey> remove gdm
[13:06] <popey> make sure lightdm and lightdm-gtk-greeter is installed
[13:06] <czajkowski> gdm and gdm-guest-session ??
[13:06] <czajkowski> remmove them both ?
[13:07] <czajkowski> nm comes up as an option
[13:07] <czajkowski> always scarey going near gdm had a bad experience before and had no login screen
[13:07] <popey> i have no gdm packages installed
[13:21] <kamilnadeem> Hi
[13:22] <Pendulum> czajkowski: apologizes, but she lost her login screen
[13:23] <czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/7jeuxe
[13:23] <czajkowski> yay for mac so i can get on
[13:23] <czajkowski> machine wont move past the above image :/
[13:23] <AlanBell> does ctrl+alt+f1 get you to a terminal you can log in at?
[13:24] <czajkowski> AlanBell: aye
[13:25] <AlanBell> ok, that is a start
[13:26] <AlanBell> try sudo service lightdm status
[13:26] <AlanBell> and sudo service lightdm restart
[13:28] <czajkowski> whoo that worked
[13:28] <czajkowski> AlanBell: thanks
[13:30] <czajkowski> wonder why it wouldnt work the first time though
[13:31] <AlanBell> gosh
[13:32] <czajkowski> restarted same thing
[13:32] <czajkowski> :/
[13:32] <AlanBell> I was just expecting that to give an error message that someone cleverer than me would understand :)
[13:32] <nigelb> I wonder if there's a message is syslogs
[13:32] <AlanBell> what was the output of service lightdm status?
[13:33] <czajkowski> waiting
[13:33] <AlanBell> "lightdm start/running, process 1422" or not like that
[13:33] <czajkowski> nope nothign as helpful as that
[13:33] <popey> i suspect the dm has not been set to auto start
[13:33] <popey> reinstalling it is the quick and dirty way to fix that
[13:33] <popey> sudo apt-get install --reinstall lightdm
[13:34] <czajkowski> will give it a lash
[13:34] <czajkowski> what could go wrong :)
[13:36]  * AlanBell wonders if /etc/init/lightdm.conf exists
[13:36] <czajkowski> restarting now
[13:36] <czajkowski> will let you know in a tic
[13:40] <kamilnadeem>  as suggested , I had filed the bug in Kubuntu-website. But it is lying dead there https://bugs.launchpad.net/kubuntu-website/+bug/893997. Now If some people at high ranks will bring it to attention then it will be great. Also another real life bug related to orange snap effect after using the worlspace swicther(https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/875557) has really left me perturbed . as I am in between writing my new
[13:40] <kamilnadeem> blog post about 11.10 , not sure how to proceed with it now. :(
[13:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 893997 in kubuntu-website "The Kubuntu sites is archaic(both in content and design), an updation is must. " [Undecided,New]
[13:41] <popey> kamilnadeem:
[13:41] <popey> bah!
[13:41] <AlanBell> kamilnadeem: well probably ask in #kubuntu
[13:41] <popey> kamilnadeem: that ^^
[13:42] <nigelb> Try to find ryanca.
[13:42] <nigelb> I think he's the Kubuntu website guy.
[13:42] <czajkowski> AlanBell: so when you run service lightdm status
[13:42] <czajkowski> result is
[13:42] <czajkowski> lightdm stop/waiting
[13:42] <nigelb> Did you try the reinstall?
[13:42] <AlanBell> ok, so it isn't running
[13:43] <czajkowski> nigelb: done
[13:43] <popey> and rebooted?
[13:43] <czajkowski> then restarted and still no login
[13:43] <nigelb> Drat.
[13:43] <popey> bah
[13:43] <czajkowski> indeed
[13:43] <kamilnadeem> yeah might as well do that in #kubuntu(doing just that), also are you people facing that orange snap bug after using works space switcher?
[13:43] <czajkowski> so tempted to walk over to millbank and go  bickies and coffee for who ever fixes this
[13:43] <nigelb> heh
[13:44] <AlanBell> czajkowski: does /etc/init/lightdm.conf exist?
[13:44] <czajkowski> AlanBell: just waiting on login 2 ticks
[13:44] <czajkowski> this is why me adn removing stuff is a bad idea :( I break things
[13:45] <popey> this is why removing ubuntu-desktop is bad
[13:45] <popey> and people still do it
[13:45] <popey> and people still tell them its okay "works fine here"
[13:45] <popey> and then 6 months later they're not around and we fix it
[13:45] <czajkowski> AlanBell: aye tis here
[13:46] <AlanBell> popey: if you remove ubuntu-desktop then you are not running ubuntu really
[13:46] <kamilnadeem> :)
[13:47] <AlanBell> ok, so that bit exists, but upstart isn't up-starting it :(
[13:47] <czajkowski> indeed
[13:47] <czajkowski> its misbehaving
[13:48] <AlanBell> oh, does /etc/init/gdm.conf or something gdm ish exist?
[13:48] <czajkowski> lemmie see
[13:49] <czajkowski> it does indeed
[13:49] <AlanBell> and you uninstalled gdm
[13:49] <czajkowski> I did
[13:50] <JanC> AlanBell: I have gdm.conf but upstart starts lightdm just fine
[13:50] <AlanBell> I would move that to your home or something (I tend not to delete stuff like that)
[13:50] <czajkowski> I autoremoved it
[13:51] <AlanBell> JanC: yeah, I have gdm.conf too actually, maybe this is not a productive line of enquiry
[13:51] <JanC> czajkowski: what does /etc/X11/default-display-manager say?
[13:51] <JanC> if it says gdm and you removed gdm, that would probably cause trouble  ;)
[13:52] <AlanBell> s/say/contain/
[13:52] <JanC> right ☺
[13:52] <AlanBell> mine is /usr/sbin/lightdm
[13:52] <JanC> I think a dpkg-reconfigure of any DM package will probably update that file (as should do an uninstall, I suppose?)
[13:52] <czajkowski> bugger it says lightgm
[13:53] <kamilnadeem> have posted about in Kubuntu IRC and might as well going to boot into my Kubuntu 11.10 install, Tc.
[13:53]  * czajkowski peers at her machine 
[13:53] <czajkowski> I think it likes to drive me batty
[13:54] <JanC> also, maybe one of the "start-conditions" in /et/init/lightdm.conf is not fulfilled...
[13:57] <czajkowski> paste.ubuntu.com/749282
[13:59] <JanC> hm, is dbus started at the point that lightdm isn't started yet?
[14:00] <JanC> although it could be any of the other required events...
[14:01] <AlanBell> the millbank+cookies idea is looking good
[14:01] <czajkowski> AlanBell: aye but who
[14:01] <czajkowski> pretty sure the design team cant help :)
[14:04] <AlanBell> sudo dpkg reconfigure lightdm
[14:04] <AlanBell> sudo dpkg-reconfigure lightdm even
[14:06] <AlanBell> as JanC said that probably doesn't do much more than set /etc/X11/default-display-manager
[14:07] <JanC> czajkowski: one thing you could do to help find the issue is boot with the option "--verbose" added to the kernel parameters (e.g. in grub)
[14:07] <JanC> that should log all upstart events...
[14:09] <czajkowski> dpkg-maintscript-helper: warning: environment variable DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_NAME missing
[14:09] <czajkowski> dpkg-maintscript-helper: warning: environment variable DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_PACKAGE missing
[14:09] <czajkowski> oh dear
[14:10] <JanC> hm...
[14:12] <popey> thats normal
[14:12] <popey> i get that
[14:25]  * JanC has to go now, back in 30-45 min  ☺
[14:26] <czajkowski> JanC: toodles
[14:27] <czajkowski> I'm sure it's something I'm doing or not doing is the issue. for the time being I can log in if I go ctrl alt f1 and log in from there once I restart the lightdm
[15:20] <duanedesign> jcastro: i am showing the juju charm school irc session is today. Should it be Dec. 2nd? (fridge calendar)
[15:23] <akgraner> duanedesign, hmmm  - fixing he fridge is easy - let me find the original post
[15:27] <akgraner> check the fridge now - I updated it based on the Dec 2nd, 1500 UTC date and time...
[15:27] <akgraner> should be right now or at least match the announcement...
[15:27] <jcastro> duanedesign: it is 2 december
[15:27] <jcastro> which calendar was it on that was wrong?
[15:28] <akgraner> jcastro the fridge - I just fixed it - since I was there anyway...
[15:33] <duanedesign> \o/
[15:46] <alourie> jcastro: would you mind a little chat?
[15:46] <jcastro> what's up
[15:47] <dholbach> anyone upgraded to precise already? :)
[15:47] <czajkowski> dholbach: bkerensa has done so I think
[15:48] <alourie> dholbach: sure thing
[15:48] <alourie> why would you ask
[15:48] <alourie> ?
[15:48] <dholbach> as it's supposed to be more easily testable (as there's more people working on keeping it stable without packages breaking and stuff) and it's an LTS I was wondering if I should start testing it and playing around with it a lot earlier than usual :)
[15:49] <czajkowski> I'll upgrade once I resolve my login inssue :)
[15:50] <dholbach> oh? what's wrong there?
[15:52] <alourie> dholbach: VM is for the rescue.
[15:53] <alourie> I wouldn't upgrade my actual machine...
[15:55] <dholbach> ahhh ok
[15:56] <alourie> I like to keep them synced though
[16:46] <czajkowski> gah could someone please tell randall that horse image is rather sickening
[16:46] <czajkowski> please twice in two days now it's on planet Ubuntu
[17:06] <JanC> czajkowski: it's not sure lightdm was ever started even (so you didn't really REstart it), that's why the upstart log could be useful
[17:32] <hggdh> jcastro: what is this ubuntu-etherpad team? bugsquad got an invite, and I do not know yet for what
[17:32] <jcastro> it's for access to the etherpad
[17:32] <jcastro> IS had to add stuff since it was getting spammed
[17:32] <jcastro> so we added people in teams
[17:32] <hggdh> oh, OK
[17:33] <hggdh> bugsquad is in
[17:35] <dholbach> alright my friends - have a great weekend everyone - big hugs!
[17:35] <nigelb> g'nite and happy weekend dholbach :)
[17:36] <dholbach> bye :)
[17:38] <AlanBell> jcastro: cjohnston we should stop adding teams to that group, launchpad sends out loads of emails when invitations are accepted and I think most new requests will be from people outside of any group anyhow
[17:39] <jcastro> I think there's like 19k people who have access to the etherpad now
[17:39] <jcastro> that outta be enough
[17:39] <nigelb> heh
[17:39] <nigelb> I didn't want to fight with IS about that ticket.
[17:39] <AlanBell> yes, now everyone in bugsquad would have been notified that the invitation was accepted
[17:39] <nigelb> Or else we could have turned if off/made it an open team.
[17:40] <jcastro> sucky
[17:40] <AlanBell> nigelb: how is your node.js :)
[17:40] <nigelb> AlanBell: sucky :P
[17:40] <nigelb> I couldn't get npm to work.
[17:40] <AlanBell> yay, so is mine
[17:40] <cjohnston> AlanBell: i looked at recent joiners and added their teams
[17:40] <AlanBell> cjohnston: ok, reasonable strategy
[17:41] <cjohnston> thats y those two teams ere adeed
[17:42] <cjohnston> were
[17:54] <jcastro> anyone seen jono today or is he off?
[17:56] <jcastro> cjohnston: ok your BP looks awesome dude
[17:56] <jcastro> I sent it off to jono
[17:56] <jcastro> cjohnston: you're resetting the line today for status.u.c?
[18:09] <czajkowski> jcastro: not seen him on here today
[18:09] <czajkowski> it's been rather quiet
[18:11] <Pendulum> he did black friday shopping in the middle of the night
[18:12] <Pendulum> I suspect he's sleeping
[18:13] <czajkowski> what;s this sleep you talk of
[18:15]  * JanC thinks he would hate "Black Friday shopping"  ;)
[18:20] <bkerensa> dholbach: I'm using Precise as my default desktop already
[18:20] <bkerensa> :D
[21:22] <jcastro> greg-g: here you go dude
[21:23] <jcastro> http://cloud.ubuntu.com/2011/11/deploying-thinkup-to-the-cloud-with-juju/
[21:23] <jcastro> a copy of all your social media thing
[21:23] <jcastro> I know it's ironic doing it on EC2 for the example
[21:23] <jcastro> but the idea makes sense.
[22:20] <jcastro> is it me or is planet slow?
[22:21] <bkerensa> jcastro: Likely because one of the blogs its syndicating is lagging bad
[22:21] <bkerensa> jcastro: If someones server is thrashing and they have images in a post it can slow down planet load time by minutes
[22:22] <AlanBell> planet won't load the images
[22:22] <jcastro> well, one of them is my tumblr
[22:22] <jcastro> the other is cloud.ubuntu.com
[22:22] <AlanBell> but a heap long feed will take a while to load
[22:23] <bkerensa> AlanBell: What do you mean it wont load images? I have seen one blog on a .de with a 200 word post and image that makes planet take 3-4 mins to load
[22:23] <AlanBell> http://www.planeta11y.org/
[22:23] <AlanBell> is one I set up last week
[22:23] <AlanBell> the planetvenus software just loads the rss and re-renders it with <img> tags pointing at the source images
[22:24] <AlanBell> the image data does not flow to the server, but relative links in <img> and <a> tags do get rewritten as fully qualified URLS
[22:24] <bkerensa> yeah hotlinking which is not good
[22:24] <AlanBell> images might take the planet a while to load in a browser, but they do not intrinsically make the cron job take longer because it doesn't retrieve them
[22:27] <AlanBell> there are rather a lot of feeds on planet ubuntu right now, it has to retrive each one in turn and run the xslt filters on the rss and validate the html and do other processing and pass it through a template then it assembles a static page that gets served
[22:27] <bkerensa> AlanBell: I have kind of wondered.... Is planet not supposed to be Ubuntu related posts only? I noticed some odd stuff now and then that dont seem to be related to Ubuntu let alone FOSS
[22:28] <AlanBell> it is the blogs of ubuntu members
[22:28] <AlanBell> in theory
[22:28] <AlanBell> there may well be some expired people in there and I was trying to audit and review that
[22:28] <bkerensa> Ahh :)
[22:29] <AlanBell> Planet Ubuntu is a window into the world, work and lives of Ubuntu developers and contributors.
[22:29] <AlanBell> doesn't have to be 100% ubuntu related
[22:29] <bkerensa> Ahh :)
[22:29] <bkerensa> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu#Separating_Content
[22:30] <bkerensa> that always made me thought it did which is why I seperated my feed by category
[22:30] <AlanBell> sure, some people only want their ubuntu specific posts aggregated
[22:30] <bkerensa> I think I just misread the wiki :D