| === Guest1591 is now known as amithkk | ||
| === huats_ is now known as huats | ||
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| ogra_ | heh | 15:54 |
|---|---|---|
| ogra_ | scott-upstairs, is there also a scott-basement and a scott-attic ? | 15:55 |
| * skaet waves | 15:55 | |
| * ogra_ moos | 15:55 | |
| * scott-upstairs waves | 15:56 | |
| * tumbleweed notices we've moved an hour later | 15:56 | |
| ogra_ | tumbleweed, 16:00 UTC ... | 15:56 |
| scott-upstairs | no, ogra_ , just my regular latptop (ScottL) and one of the other computers when i'm upstairs in my studio room | 15:56 |
| ogra_ | ah :) | 15:56 |
| * madnick is always "madnick-basement" | 15:57 | |
| scott-upstairs | lols | 15:57 |
| scott-upstairs | oh, where did skaet go? | 15:57 |
| scott-upstairs | cjwatson, luke told me to mention to you that you "need to fix up the groups for studio in the studio preseed file in the debian-cd code, he will know what you are talking about" | 15:58 |
| * highvoltage waves | 15:58 | |
| * skaet seems to be having IRC weirdness... could be an interesting meeting. | 15:58 | |
| * stgraber waves | 16:00 | |
| skaet | #startmeeting | 16:00 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Fri Nov 25 16:00:22 2011 UTC. The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. | 16:00 |
| meetingology | Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired | 16:00 |
| pitti | o/ | 16:00 |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Release general overview - skaet | 16:00 |
| skaet | Agenda can be found: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-11-25 | 16:00 |
| skaet | There will be a couple of tweaks to the round table order today. Edubuntu will be going earlier, after Cert and QA. | 16:00 |
| skaet | . | 16:00 |
| skaet | Reminder: New format for the meeting is to review the comments posted by other teams in ubuntu-release maillist before the meeting, and then ask questions. | 16:00 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release general overview - skaet | ||
| skaet | During round table Q&A time, please post link to your mail message, and any additional comments. When you've finished comments/questions signal by ".." | 16:00 |
| skaet | If you want to ask a question, please "o/" so we know to wait for you. | 16:00 |
| skaet | . | 16:00 |
| skaet | Schedule for this release will be at: | 16:01 |
| skaet | #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule | 16:01 |
| skaet | #link http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ubuntu-release-calendar/ | 16:01 |
| skaet | . | 16:01 |
| cjwatson | scott-upstairs: I replied to your mail | 16:01 |
| scott-upstairs | cjwatson, thank you (i will read it shortly) | 16:01 |
| skaet | We've now passed Feature Definition Freeze, and status tracker has been reset. | 16:01 |
| skaet | There are 2084 work items on the tracker as of 2011/11/25, a little up from last release. | 16:01 |
| skaet | #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ | 16:01 |
| skaet | . | 16:01 |
| skaet | Bugs committed to be fixed by the engineering teams can be found: | 16:01 |
| skaet | #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html | 16:01 |
| skaet | Bugs that you would like the engineering teams to consider for fixing, should be assigned to those teams. | 16:02 |
| skaet | . | 16:02 |
| skaet | Upcoming Dates: | 16:02 |
| skaet | • 11/28 - 21:00 Soft Freeze for Alpha 1 | 16:02 |
| skaet | • 11/29 - Images for testing posted on ISO tracker | 16:02 |
| skaet | • 12/01 - Alpha 1 release. | 16:02 |
| skaet | . | 16:02 |
| skaet | For alpha 1 we'll be testing out the new ISO tracker at: http://91.189.93.73/ We're working with IS to get it deployed on the main servers. A big thank you to stgraber and jibel and other early testers for getting it ready in time for alpha 1. :) | 16:02 |
| skaet | . | 16:02 |
| skaet | Any questions before stgraber gives us an overview of the plans for testing the new ISO tracker next week and then we move into the round table? | 16:02 |
| skaet | .. | 16:02 |
| skaet | [TOPIC] New ISO tracker overview - stgraber | 16:02 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: New ISO tracker overview - stgraber | ||
| stgraber | ISO testing for alpha-1 will be happening on the new ISO tracker at http://91.189.93.73 | 16:02 |
| stgraber | The tracker is currently being tested with dailies and runs an import of the old tracker (http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com). | 16:03 |
| stgraber | 16:03 | |
| stgraber | On Sunday, I'll be flushing everything on http://91.189.93.73 except for the daily results. | 16:03 |
| stgraber | I'll then make another import of the old tracker and will then disable the old tracker and put a link to the new one in the header. | 16:03 |
| stgraber | The switch will be announced to ubuntu-devel, ubuntu-qa, ubuntu-testing (forgot any?) | 16:03 |
| stgraber | 16:03 | |
| stgraber | Next week, the builds will be posted on that new tracker and you'll be notified by e-mail as usual. | 16:03 |
| stgraber | In the event where something goes wrong during alpha-1 testing, we'll be switching back to the old one (results will be kept). | 16:03 |
| stgraber | 16:03 | |
| stgraber | Authentication now works using Ubuntu SSO (OpenID) and Launchpad teams for access. | 16:03 |
| stgraber | Members of ~ubuntu-qa-website-devel and ~ubuntu-release have admin access, everyone else (with an account) has reporter access. | 16:03 |
| stgraber | 16:03 | |
| stgraber | Current known limitations include the to-be-implemented My subscriptions page and the download links. | 16:03 |
| stgraber | Download links should be implemented at some point today and I'll try to get the subscriptions page done over the weekend. | 16:03 |
| stgraber | 16:03 | |
| stgraber | I invite everyone to make sure their account work (as they need to be automatically merged at first login) and to play a bit with the new site. | 16:03 |
| stgraber | I added "A test milestone" for you to play around and try to break the site :) | 16:03 |
| stgraber | .. | 16:04 |
| skaet | Thanks stgraber! | 16:05 |
| * skaet looks around for o/? | 16:05 | |
| pitti | o/ | 16:05 |
| skaet | go pitti | 16:05 |
| pitti | any fundamentally different features, structure, etc. we need to be aware of? | 16:05 |
| pitti | or is it pretty much working like the old one from an "user"'s POV? | 16:06 |
| pitti | I clicked around a bit, and it does look familiar enough | 16:06 |
| stgraber | nothing too visible at the moment, biggest difference is access to the archive and the possibility of adding a rebuild reason when adding new builds | 16:06 |
| pitti | ah, that's handy | 16:06 |
| pitti | you mean s/adding/disabling/ ? | 16:06 |
| pitti | that's a nicer place to keep that information than the etherpad | 16:07 |
| stgraber | the DB supports new things like hardware profile, multiple results per user, per-milestone testcases, ... but it's not exposed at the moment as I want to be able to push results back to the old tracker if needed | 16:07 |
| * skaet happily notes its better interface on admin side, too ;) | 16:07 | |
| stgraber | it's a note field for each build, so you can use it to tell the testers what really needs testing | 16:08 |
| stgraber | or to tell why something got disabled when marking it for rebuild | 16:08 |
| pitti | looks nice, we shouldn't have problems finding our way there; thanks! | 16:09 |
| stgraber | (though I noticed the UI for the later seems to be missing, adding that to my todo for this afternoon ;)) | 16:09 |
| pitti | .. (in case you were waiting for that) | 16:09 |
| cjwatson | also, all daily builds are auto-posted | 16:09 |
| cjwatson | we'll just change a config file on nusakan to flip that to a milestone | 16:09 |
| cjwatson | (not all auto-posted today, because the tracker went down and also we spotted a security problem (fixeD)) | 16:10 |
| cjwatson | *fixed | 16:10 |
| pitti | so with (what feels like) 20 minute ISO builds, auto-posting, QA auto-testing, and publish-image-set.py, isn't that pretty much a fully scripted release manager? :-) | 16:10 |
| pitti | (srsly, this all makes me soo happy!) | 16:10 |
| stgraber | right, and for these of you wondering, you won't get spammed for daily builds :) | 16:10 |
| skaet | :) | 16:10 |
| ogra_ | 20min iso builds .... | 16:11 |
| * ogra_ is so envious | 16:11 | |
| alourie | stgraber: is the new site points to the regular data? or something else? | 16:11 |
| stgraber | the current site is using a DB import from iso.qa.ubuntu.com from an hour ago | 16:12 |
| alourie | ah | 16:12 |
| alourie | ok | 16:12 |
| === emma_ is now known as em | ||
| stgraber | schema is different so I can't simply use the same DB but I have import/export scripts to transfer data back to the old tracker if needed | 16:12 |
| skaet | Thanks again stgraber! Very much looking forward to switching to this new tracker!! | 16:13 |
| * skaet moves on to round tables now... | 16:13 | |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris | 16:14 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hardware Certification team update - mlegris | ||
| skaet | hmm.... he seems to be away | 16:14 |
| skaet | [TOPIC] QA team update - jibel | 16:14 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA team update - jibel | ||
| jibel | hi | 16:15 |
| pitti | o/ (question) | 16:16 |
| skaet | go pitti | 16:16 |
| pitti | jibel: can you please give a quick status quo of which tests currently happen to daily ISOs? do we have any? smoketesting? anything else? | 16:16 |
| pitti | i. e. to what degree can we trust an image that gets posted, and how much manual smoketesting testing should we do before we post it to the tracker? | 16:17 |
| pitti | asking in context of the a1 release next week | 16:17 |
| pitti | ISTR that in past cycles we had an automatic smoke tester, but it was never fully clear to me when/how that runs | 16:18 |
| pitti | .. | 16:18 |
| Daviey | pitti: upgrade testing, or fresh install? | 16:18 |
| pitti | fresh install of ISOs | 16:18 |
| pitti | I'm aware of the upgrade testing | 16:18 |
| pitti | i. e. slam them into a VM, run ubiquity with leaning on the Return key, and see if the result boots | 16:18 |
| jibel | ok, the current automated test are triggered automatically when a new build is available on cdimage.u.c | 16:19 |
| pitti | yes, oversimplified, but in essence "does the installer crash during the default options" | 16:19 |
| jibel | it uses preseeding and runs in VMs | 16:19 |
| jibel | we are testing a default installation, LVM, encrypted home, different tasksel selections | 16:20 |
| jibel | I don't have the exhaustive list on the top og my mind but can send it to the list | 16:20 |
| pitti | so ideally we should only auto-post an image after that ran and succeeded, not immediately from the ISO build itself | 16:20 |
| pitti | jibel: wow, that's already more than I hoped for :) | 16:20 |
| jibel | we are testing both d-i and ubiquity | 16:21 |
| Daviey | (jibel spotted an issue on on server default install for us today :) | 16:21 |
| pitti | jibel: how do we learn if an image is good/bad? checking at jenkins? or does it make some noise if a test case fails? | 16:21 |
| jibel | Daviey, bug 894187 maybe ? | 16:21 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 894187 in console-setup (Ubuntu Precise) "d-i preseeded installation fails because keyboard-configuration/xkb-keymap is not set" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894187 | 16:21 |
| stgraber | hopefully on the ISO tracker (once the result API is ready ;)) | 16:22 |
| pitti | ah, so that's how it works -- the smoketest auto-posts results? | 16:22 |
| jibel | pitti, notifications are sent to a mailing list | 16:22 |
| jibel | when a test fails, when it's unstable (some of the tests fails) or back to normal | 16:22 |
| skaet | jibel, what's the mailing list, and how can folks subscribe? | 16:23 |
| pitti | jibel, stgraber: fantastic, thanks to you guys for setting this up | 16:23 |
| stgraber | pitti: not yet, but that's the idea now that we have the dailies on the tracker. I have a results.get_list and results.add XMLRPC calls in the new tracker, though it's not public yet as the API will change post-alpha1 (ability to post multiple results and link to hardware) | 16:23 |
| jibel | or you can check the status on https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20Daily%20ISOs/ | 16:24 |
| * pitti shuts up now, 'nuff owning of the meeting | 16:24 | |
| stgraber | pitti: so hopefully for alpha-2 we'll have the automated testing and upgrade testing reporting to the tracker | 16:24 |
| Daviey | \o/ | 16:24 |
| jibel | we'll have a real dashboard really soon | 16:24 |
| pitti | https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20Daily%20ISOs/ will do just fine for a1 | 16:24 |
| cjwatson | pitti: we auto-post everything as dailies because the QA results are attached to posted-for-testing images | 16:24 |
| pitti | I mean, WTH, for oneiric and earlier we had to manually run an ISO just to find out that the installer crashes right away | 16:24 |
| cjwatson | perhaps we could promote things to milestone builds after daily testing or something | 16:24 |
| cjwatson | but yeah, we don't need to discuss that noww | 16:25 |
| cjwatson | Daviey: the bug jibel referred to above will be fixed at the next d-i rebuild | 16:25 |
| pitti | right, I just wanted to know where to look and what happens | 16:25 |
| cjwatson | (later today) | 16:25 |
| Daviey | \o/ | 16:25 |
| Daviey | Today is just getting better, and better | 16:25 |
| skaet | jibel, what's the mailing list, and how can folks subscribe? | 16:25 |
| jibel | skaet, https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-testing-notifications | 16:26 |
| skaet | jibel, Thanks! | 16:27 |
| jibel | just a word about the test we are doing for upgrade | 16:27 |
| skaet | and a big thank you to you and all the QA team for the work you've been doing to get this hooked up. :) | 16:27 |
| skaet | jibel, go ahead. | 16:27 |
| jibel | upgrades are also tested automatically using the auto-upgrade-tester | 16:28 |
| jibel | results are here https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise/job/precise-upgrade/ | 16:28 |
| Daviey | jibel: is that based on what mvo used to do, or something fresh? | 16:28 |
| jibel | we are running ubuntu, ubuntu-server and a selection of task on both amd64 and i386 | 16:28 |
| jibel | Daviey, yes it is | 16:28 |
| Daviey | ta | 16:29 |
| jibel | we are currently testing from latest stable to the dev release | 16:29 |
| jibel | and we'll add LTS->LTS testing after A1 | 16:29 |
| skaet | :) | 16:29 |
| Riddell | jibel: could Kubuntu be added to that and the iso tester? | 16:29 |
| jibel | Riddell, we can provide the instructions if you want to set up the infrastructure for Kubuntu | 16:30 |
| Riddell | ok | 16:31 |
| * skaet moving on to round table now | 16:31 | |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Edubuntu Q&A - stgraber | 16:31 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Edubuntu Q&A - stgraber | ||
| stgraber | hey again! | 16:31 |
| stgraber | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2011-November/000506.html | 16:31 |
| stgraber | I don't think we have any question at this point. I'll test Edubuntu this weekend and upload fixes for anything that's not too risky to fix for alpha-1 | 16:32 |
| skaet | Thanks stgraber! glad you have images again. Any concerns for next week's images? | 16:32 |
| stgraber | currently my concerns are: will it boot, then will it install and then will it still boot :) | 16:32 |
| stgraber | I'll know more on Monday | 16:33 |
| skaet | Thanks. :) | 16:33 |
| cjwatson | haha | 16:33 |
| cjwatson | I should frame that and put it on my wall | 16:33 |
| stgraber | :) | 16:33 |
| * skaet not seeing any hands, moving on. | 16:33 | |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Security team Q&A - mdeslaur | 16:33 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Security team Q&A - mdeslaur | ||
| mdeslaur | hi! | 16:33 |
| mdeslaur | [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2011-November/000501.html | 16:34 |
| mdeslaur | business as usual, work items are set in stone | 16:34 |
| mdeslaur | we'll probably be uploading the final 2.7 version of apparmor, but that shouldn't impact anything | 16:34 |
| mdeslaur | that's about it! | 16:34 |
| Daviey | \o/ | 16:34 |
| Riddell | thanks to jdstrand for doing the kdeutils fix | 16:35 |
| mdeslaur | yes! he's eating leftover turkey today as a reward for that hard work :) | 16:35 |
| * skaet assumes .., and that Daviey is just happy and no questions... | 16:35 | |
| mdeslaur | .. | 16:35 |
| skaet | Thanks mdeslaur! | 16:35 |
| mdeslaur | thanks! | 16:35 |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Kernel team Q&A - apw | 16:36 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel team Q&A - apw | ||
| apw | [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2011-November/000494.html | 16:36 |
| apw | All of out blueprints are pretty much there now. | 16:36 |
| apw | The expected rebase to 3.2-rc3 appeared yesterday and has already been uploaded. | 16:36 |
| apw | I think thats it. | 16:37 |
| apw | .. | 16:37 |
| skaet | Thanks apw! any worries about the new kernel for next week? | 16:37 |
| apw | No i've been testing it for 24 hours on my kit here, even my day-to-day machine and its been rock solid | 16:37 |
| skaet | sweet! thanks! | 16:37 |
| apw | much happier now we are on an official -rc | 16:37 |
| apw | .. | 16:37 |
| skaet | :) | 16:37 |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Foundations team Q&A - cjwatson | 16:37 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Foundations team Q&A - cjwatson | ||
| cjwatson | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2011-November/000504.html | 16:38 |
| cjwatson | bug 885654 has come up since that, I'm working on that now | 16:38 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 885654 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "ubiquity crashed with KeyError in partman_edit_dialog(): 'method_choices'" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/885654 | 16:38 |
| cjwatson | and we'll need to rebuild installer images for the new kernel once it's finished building everywhere | 16:38 |
| cjwatson | but other than that, no concerns for alpha-1 that I know of | 16:38 |
| cjwatson | .. | 16:38 |
| skaet | Thanks cjwatson! | 16:38 |
| * skaet not seeing questions so moving on | 16:39 | |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Server team Q&A - Daviey | 16:39 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server team Q&A - Daviey | ||
| Daviey | Hola! | 16:39 |
| Daviey | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2011-November/000512.html | 16:39 |
| Daviey | Current focussed bugs: | 16:39 |
| Daviey | http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html | 16:39 |
| Daviey | Something that should be included is the mysql transition to 5.5, this is being driven by SpamapS. Uf you have any questions or issues, he is the man of the moment. | 16:39 |
| Daviey | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/libmysqlclient.html | 16:39 |
| Daviey | ^^ Tracking it. | 16:39 |
| Daviey | Thanks! | 16:39 |
| Daviey | .. | 16:39 |
| skaet | Thanks Daviey! | 16:40 |
| skaet | [TOPIC] ARM team Q&A- ogra_ | 16:41 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM team Q&A- ogra_ | ||
| * ogra_ waves | 16:41 | |
| ogra_ | [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2011-November/000513.html | 16:41 |
| ogra_ | nothing to add here ... | 16:41 |
| ogra_ | .. | 16:41 |
| skaet | thanks ogra_ ! will confirm the image set with you early next week for alpha 1. | 16:42 |
| ogra_ | hasnt changed since oneiric | 16:42 |
| ogra_ | .. | 16:42 |
| skaet | thanks ogra_, that's what I was hoping to hear. :) | 16:42 |
| ogra_ | :) | 16:42 |
| cjwatson | o/ | 16:42 |
| skaet | go cjwatson | 16:43 |
| cjwatson | is the armel+omap4 image on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ intended to stay there? it isn't autobuilt, and IIRC it was a temporary experiment, but I didn't want to just nuke it without asking | 16:43 |
| ogra_ | cjwatson, nuke it for now, we found some issues with building it properly and were waiting for a new kernel | 16:44 |
| cjwatson | are you intending to autobuild it in future then? does it supersede the preinstalled image or will it be a new addition? | 16:44 |
| ogra_ | we dont inted to autobuild live (yet) if there are any arm live images they are all just for one time tests | 16:44 |
| cjwatson | OK, then I suggest using CDIMAGE_NOPUBLISH=1 when building them and putting them manually into a custom directory | 16:44 |
| ogra_ | if we find that live installs faster than preinstalled resizes we might re-consider switching to live | 16:45 |
| cjwatson | that way we don't get this kind of confusion | 16:45 |
| ogra_ | (which i highly doubt) | 16:45 |
| cjwatson | I've nuked it, thanks | 16:45 |
| ogra_ | will do | 16:45 |
| ogra_ | .. | 16:45 |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Linaro team Q&A - fabo | 16:46 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro team Q&A - fabo | ||
| fabo | hi! | 16:46 |
| fabo | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2011-November/000518.html | 16:46 |
| fabo | mostly busy with our release. not much to add... | 16:46 |
| fabo | ... | 16:46 |
| skaet | Thanks fabo! congrats on getting 11.11 out. :) | 16:46 |
| fabo | thks :) | 16:47 |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team Q&A - joshuahoover | 16:47 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu One Team Q&A - joshuahoover | ||
| * skaet doesn't see him... moving on. | 16:48 | |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Desktop Team Q&A - pitti | 16:48 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Team Q&A - pitti | ||
| pitti | status is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus | 16:48 |
| pitti | This morning I got a bit surprised by bug 893842, which was a silent major change, but I think we fixed the most important bits now. We need to watch out for/search for less visible cases of assuming "admin" still, though. | 16:48 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 893842 in policykit-1 (Ubuntu Precise) "Move "admin" group to "sudo"" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893842 | 16:48 |
| pitti | Aside from that, no current problems for A1, should be ready to go. | 16:48 |
| pitti | Except for some oversizedness, but if we don't manage to sort that out, I figure it's not an A1 blocker. | 16:48 |
| pitti | questions? | 16:48 |
| pitti | .. | 16:48 |
| skaet | Thanks pitti! oversize not blocker for alpha1. | 16:49 |
| pitti | it might just resolve itself, as we moved to rb now and removed mono | 16:49 |
| pitti | but FTR | 16:49 |
| Riddell | rb? | 16:50 |
| ogra_ | rhythmbox | 16:50 |
| ogra_ | .. | 16:50 |
| skaet | tomboy moved since mono off the cd? | 16:50 |
| Riddell | right | 16:50 |
| pitti | skaet: it should; haven't gotten a daily build yet to verify | 16:52 |
| skaet | pitti, thanks. | 16:52 |
| cjwatson | pitti: want one? | 16:53 |
| cjwatson | no need to wait if it would be useful now (well, now + build time) | 16:53 |
| skaet | :) | 16:53 |
| pitti | cjwatson: well, I'll call it a week right after the meeting, so daily weekend builds are enough for me | 16:53 |
| * scott-upstairs is afk for 30 secs | 16:54 | |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Desktop Experience Team Q&A - dbarth | 16:54 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Experience Team Q&A - dbarth | ||
| dbarth | hi | 16:54 |
| dbarth | the status was posted on the ML and is also at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ReleaseStatus | 16:54 |
| cjwatson | pitti: ok | 16:54 |
| dbarth | nothing much to add | 16:55 |
| skaet | thanks dbarth! | 16:55 |
| dbarth | do you have questions? | 16:55 |
| dbarth | .. | 16:55 |
| skaet | when will there be burndown charts available? | 16:55 |
| Riddell | dbarth: myunity was uploaded to new queue, if anyone on your team objects to it do let the archive admins know | 16:55 |
| dbarth | myunity? | 16:56 |
| * scott-upstairs back | 16:56 | |
| Riddell | a unity settings tweaking application | 16:56 |
| dbarth | skaet: i need to work on that for next week; mostly see how to have our bug pile being taken into account | 16:57 |
| skaet | dbarth, gotcha, will get with you offline. | 16:57 |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team Q&A - Riddell | 16:57 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Team Q&A - Riddell | ||
| Riddell | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2011-November/000505.html | 16:58 |
| Riddell | bug 893826 currently causing upgrade breakage | 16:58 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 893826 in pkgbinarymangler (Ubuntu) "symlinked docs are different between architectures, depending on dpkg-deb package order" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893826 | 16:58 |
| Riddell | ISOs oversized | 16:58 |
| Riddell | .. | 16:58 |
| skaet | Thanks Riddell! | 16:58 |
| skaet | which images will you be trying to release with alpha 1? (cd, dvd, alternate for i386, amd64 - is assumption right now) Is there someone lined up to test arm images? what about active? | 16:58 |
| Riddell | kubuntu active doesn't exist yet | 16:58 |
| cjwatson | o/ | 16:59 |
| Riddell | my arm machine is not with me, so I won't be able to test for alpha 1 | 16:59 |
| Riddell | cjwatson: hi | 16:59 |
| cjwatson | Riddell: there's a bunch of stuff on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt which appears to be actually due to versioned dependencies from metapackages which aren't satisfied (e.g. kdegraphics Recommends: kdegraphics-mobipocket (>= 4:4.7.3), kdegraphics-mobipocket is at 4:4.7.1-0ubuntu2) - is that all just pending builds? | 17:00 |
| cjwatson | if it's all Recommends it may not have been noticed | 17:00 |
| ogra_ | Riddell, GrueMaster can probably cover that for one alpha (we need to ask him though and he wont be back before monday) | 17:00 |
| ogra_ | .. | 17:00 |
| Riddell | cjwatson: it's pending me finishing the merges which I'll do this afternoon | 17:00 |
| cjwatson | OK | 17:01 |
| cjwatson | I'll not demote that stuff :) | 17:01 |
| skaet | Thanks ogra_ (/me holds off on removing them from the image list for A1) | 17:02 |
| Riddell | cjwatson: it's untidy I agree, I'll have a think about if there's a way to stop the meta-kde update causing that | 17:02 |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Ubuntu Studio Team Q&A - scott-upstairs | 17:03 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Studio Team Q&A - scott-upstairs | ||
| scott-upstairs | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2011-November/000515.html | 17:03 |
| scott-upstairs | we've addressed a few bugs, including the dssi-vst ia32-libs issue i think | 17:04 |
| scott-upstairs | and cjwatson has helped with the root-sudo issue as well that i think pitti mentioned | 17:04 |
| scott-upstairs | and a question: i was going to update the studio theme to the xubuntu theme, should i wait until after a1? | 17:04 |
| scott-upstairs | .. | 17:05 |
| skaet | Thanks scott-upstairs! any changes to the specific images for A1, or same as oneiric? | 17:05 |
| cjwatson | you have time if you do it by Monday or so, I think | 17:05 |
| scott-upstairs | cjwatson, ack | 17:05 |
| scott-upstairs | skaet, pretty much the same as oneiric really | 17:05 |
| skaet | scott-upstairs, thanks! | 17:05 |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Xubuntu Team Q&A - madnick | 17:06 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xubuntu Team Q&A - madnick | ||
| madnick | hi | 17:06 |
| madnick | [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2011-November/000503.html | 17:06 |
| madnick | We have blueprints for all of our roadmap items with an assignee. | 17:06 |
| madnick | .. | 17:06 |
| skaet | Thanks madnick! re: testing | 17:06 |
| skaet | ideally see how many of the manditory tests per milestone you can work through. | 17:06 |
| madnick | okay :) | 17:07 |
| skaet | Thanks. Basically need to figure out if they are safe to ship or not, and what to warn folks about. | 17:07 |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Lubuntu Team Q&A - gilir | 17:08 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lubuntu Team Q&A - gilir | ||
| gilir | hi :) | 17:08 |
| gilir | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2011-November/000502.html | 17:08 |
| gilir | nothing new, except we would like to add powerpc ISO to the list of tested ISO for a1 | 17:08 |
| cjwatson | that's just a matter of it being on the tracker | 17:08 |
| gilir | yes | 17:09 |
| gilir | .. | 17:09 |
| skaet | Thanks gilir! | 17:09 |
| cjwatson | though I suspect alternate powerpc won't work; see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2011-November/017979.html | 17:09 |
| gilir | ah, I will ask people to look at this | 17:10 |
| skaet | [TOPIC] MOTU Team Q&A - tumbleweed or Laney | 17:11 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU Team Q&A - tumbleweed or Laney | ||
| * tumbleweed waves | 17:11 | |
| skaet | :) | 17:11 |
| tumbleweed | no mail from us, nothing crazy happening in MOTU | 17:11 |
| tumbleweed | .. | 17:11 |
| cjwatson | gilir: no need, patch is there, but I don't think it will make alpha-1 now | 17:11 |
| skaet | thanks tumbleweed! | 17:11 |
| skaet | [TOPIC] Any other business, comments questions: ? | 17:11 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business, comments questions: ? | ||
| * skaet looks around for o/'s | 17:12 | |
| gilir | cjwatson, ok thanks :) | 17:12 |
| skaet | Its a wrap then. Thanks stgraber, mlegris, jibel, mdeslaur, apw, cjwatson, Daviey, ogra_, fabo, joshuahoover, pitti, dbarth, Riddell, madnick, scott-upstairs, gilir, tumbleweed. Good meeting. :) | 17:13 |
| skaet | #endmeeting | 17:13 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ||
| meetingology | Meeting ended Fri Nov 25 17:13:30 2011 UTC. | 17:13 |
| meetingology | Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-25-16.00.moin.txt | 17:13 |
| scott-upstairs | thank you | 17:13 |
| mdeslaur | thanks skaet! | 17:13 |
| ogra_ | thanks skaet | 17:13 |
| pitti | thanks everyone, have a nice weekend! | 17:13 |
| skaet | you too pitti! | 17:13 |
| highvoltage | thanks skaet and have a good weekend everyone! | 17:13 |
| stgraber | thanks | 17:14 |
| skaet | good weekend everyone! | 17:14 |
| Ursinha | thanks skaet :) | 17:15 |
| scott-upstairs | thanks again for your help, cjwatson :-) | 17:15 |
| jibel | thanks skaet | 17:15 |
| cjwatson | np | 17:15 |
| ajmitch | right, ARB meeting time | 18:00 |
| ajmitch | #startmeeting | 18:00 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Fri Nov 25 18:00:36 2011 UTC. The chair is ajmitch. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. | 18:00 |
| meetingology | Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired | 18:00 |
| * stgraber waves | 18:00 | |
| * highvoltage waves | 18:01 | |
| ajmitch | agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda, we'll mostly just go over what's been going on these last few weeks | 18:02 |
| ajmitch | firstly action items from last meeting - there was one for stgraber to check on packages being copied to the new release | 18:03 |
| * ajmitch had done a basic check that there were no packages copied to the precise dist on extras.ubuntu.com | 18:04 | |
| stgraber | so I had to initialize Precise to get extras.u.c working, so apparently everything works as expected (nothing gets copied) | 18:04 |
| ajmitch | ok, great | 18:04 |
| ajmitch | glad to know it was simple :) | 18:04 |
| ajmitch | #topic UDS session | 18:05 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: UDS session | ||
| ajmitch | just pulling up the blueprint link now | 18:06 |
| ajmitch | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-app-review-board has the work items there, most of them refer to getting access to myapps.developer.ubuntu.com & to the review shifts | 18:07 |
| wendar | does everyone have access now? | 18:08 |
| ajmitch | stgraber: did jono hand over the list admin? | 18:08 |
| highvoltage | next week is my first shift, I hope some of you will be available if I have questions | 18:08 |
| highvoltage | (which I will) | 18:08 |
| stgraber | ajmitch: no, I poked him again two days ago, no news yet... | 18:08 |
| ajmitch | we have access but it's buggy & broken for accessing tarballs of apps copied from the non-ARB review parts | 18:08 |
| wendar | highvoltage: yeah, I'm taking the weekly shifts as a good time to do my own queue watching | 18:08 |
| stgraber | oh, and in person at UDS, though that didn't help apparently :) | 18:08 |
| ajmitch | there's a LP bug open about the problems | 18:09 |
| wendar | highvoltage: more fun to do together | 18:09 |
| highvoltage | wendar: great :) | 18:09 |
| ajmitch | bug 886366 | 18:09 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 886366 in Developer registration portal "Cannot download some arb apps during review" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886366 | 18:09 |
| ajmitch | lfaraone: welcome, I just mentioned the bug you opened about not being able to access some arb apps | 18:10 |
| wendar | ah, that's an odd one | 18:11 |
| ajmitch | currently this bug is blocking reviewing of some apps, along with a few other problems which make the review page annoying | 18:11 |
| wendar | achuni has been on top of these things, so submit a bug (or bugs) | 18:12 |
| ajmitch | wendar: I'd like to hear from you how your shift went & then I'll get on to my issues with myapps :) | 18:12 |
| wendar | stgraber and I won't get all the same issues, since we have overall admin privs as well as ARB reviewer privs | 18:12 |
| wendar | first shift went well, it was nice to have some focused time | 18:13 |
| wendar | so, I packaged 'crabhack' | 18:13 |
| wendar | and was disappointed to discover at the end that there's a launcher bug in pyglet | 18:14 |
| wendar | (the toolkit it's written in) | 18:14 |
| wendar | otherwise, it's a nice little game | 18:14 |
| wendar | it also needed some fixes to the upstream tarball, so I sent those back to the developer | 18:15 |
| wendar | I have a couple of policy questions from other apps I reviewed | 18:15 |
| wendar | TagPlayer depends on a Last.fm account. The software itself is FLOSS, but the Last.fm terms are proprietary (http://www.last.fm/api/tos). | 18:16 |
| ajmitch | sure, I've got some as well | 18:16 |
| lfaraone | wendar: we have last.fm applications in the archive, including the official client. | 18:16 |
| ajmitch | afaik we have a few clients for proprietary services in main & universe | 18:16 |
| highvoltage | like ubuntu one. | 18:17 |
| lfaraone | See http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/last-exit and http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/lastfm | 18:17 |
| ajmitch | highvoltage: last.fm is a bit more proprietary than even that, it limits what you can do with the data you get | 18:18 |
| ajmitch | given the precedent of existing last.fm clients, I don't think it'll be a problem to include another app | 18:19 |
| highvoltage | ajmitch: ah, that doesn't seem much different than accessing a non-free web page from a free browser, does it? | 18:19 |
| lfaraone | ajmitch: right, but ftp-masters thinks the clients are DSFG-free. | 18:19 |
| ajmitch | highvoltage: though a browser isn't limited to just those pages :) | 18:19 |
| ajmitch | lfaraone: which is generally what counts - I think we follow the normal rules for what's allowed in extras | 18:20 |
| ajmitch | wendar: any other problems that came up? | 18:21 |
| wendar | ajmitch: that seems like a sensible ruling, we can put it in the notes for the meeting, and wider review | 18:22 |
| wendar | All the Quickly apps are coming in with python-support dependencies (because Quickly sets them up that way). Should we manually fix those up (it's an easy fix), or let them go for Oneiric, since python-support is still in the archive (though deprecated). | 18:22 |
| * ajmitch would rather fix them & be rid of python-support, but it means a little bit of extra work | 18:23 | |
| ajmitch | the quickly template should be fixed to use dh_python2 for precise | 18:23 |
| lfaraone | ajmitch: +1 | 18:23 |
| wendar | I submitted a bug to Quickly yesterday | 18:23 |
| ajmitch | great | 18:23 |
| wendar | but, not a specific deadline | 18:24 |
| wendar | ajmitch: you can note an action item for me to check with doko on when python-support will be removed from the archive | 18:24 |
| ajmitch | #action wendar to check with doko on when python-support will be removed from the archive | 18:24 |
| meetingology | ACTION: wendar to check with doko on when python-support will be removed from the archive | 18:24 |
| wendar | (but, Quickly should migrate ASAP) | 18:24 |
| ajmitch | aha, that works :) | 18:24 |
| micahg | there are about 1k packages in oneiric using deprecated python-{support,central} | 18:25 |
| ajmitch | micahg: ok, we'd love to not add to that number :) | 18:25 |
| micahg | just saying, for oneiric, it probably doesn't matter, for precise, would be nice to drop entirely | 18:25 |
| ajmitch | but I don't think it should be a blocker for getting packages in - it should only take a few minutes to change for a package done with quickly | 18:26 |
| wendar | ajmitch: is it worth updating the packages before we put them in? It really is only a few minutes of work | 18:27 |
| * ajmitch has his review session today & will try & mark a few apps for rejection, or at least asking for them to submit source :) | 18:27 | |
| ajmitch | wendar: if possible, then yes, I think it should be done | 18:27 |
| wendar | ajmitch: will do that for the two I've encountered so far | 18:28 |
| wendar | and, add in the review notes | 18:28 |
| ajmitch | ok | 18:28 |
| lfaraone | wendar: if its programmatically generated code, it should be easy to script the modification. | 18:28 |
| ajmitch | do we have a place to leave notes about packages for other reviewers? | 18:29 |
| wendar | lfaraone: for that, I'd rather spend the time patching Quickly itself | 18:29 |
| wendar | lfaraone: rather than parsing and rewriting the output from Quickly | 18:29 |
| wendar | lfaraone: (though, certainly possible) | 18:29 |
| wendar | lfaraone: IIRC, Quickly has some features for "upgrade my project" | 18:30 |
| lfaraone | nifty. might be worth looking in to. | 18:30 |
| wendar | the other project I worked on is 4digits | 18:31 |
| wendar | I discovered that it used to be in Debian, but was orphaned | 18:31 |
| wendar | so, rather than repackaging for Extras, I revived the debian packaging, and submitted it to the DEbian Games Team | 18:31 |
| wendar | with the upstream developer as the primary Debian maintainer | 18:32 |
| wendar | that's been accepted now | 18:32 |
| lfaraone | wendar: do you have a link to the bug you filed against quickly? | 18:32 |
| ajmitch | great, that's probably a better option for a number of these packages | 18:32 |
| wendar | so, will be flowing into Universe for Precise | 18:32 |
| wendar | I'll followup with a Backport to Oneiric once it comes through the DEbian sync | 18:33 |
| wendar | ajmitch: yes, I'm thinking about just doing that for crabhack too | 18:33 |
| wendar | (the developer explicitly asked if we could help him get into debian) | 18:33 |
| wendar | lfaraone: just a sec, pulling the link... | 18:33 |
| * ajmitch still has to finish sponsoring an upload to debian for a former arb submission as well, once I patch the build system a little | 18:34 | |
| wendar | https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-distutils-extra/+bug/894582 | 18:36 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 894582 in python-distutils-extra "Python templates should use dh_python2" [Undecided,New] | 18:36 |
| wendar | lfaraone: ah, didrocks reports the fix isn't in Quickly, but further upstream | 18:37 |
| wendar | lfaraone: could be a fun weekend project | 18:37 |
| lfaraone | hmmm. | 18:37 |
| ajmitch | might only take a few min to fix there as well | 18:38 |
| wendar | ajmitch: that's all from my review shift | 18:38 |
| ajmitch | wendar: thanks | 18:38 |
| lfaraone | #action lfaraone to look into fixing bug 894582 | 18:38 |
| meetingology | ACTION: lfaraone to look into fixing bug 894582 | 18:38 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 894582 in python-distutils-extra "Python templates should use dh_python2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894582 | 18:38 |
| ajmitch | just so everyone knows, we're not restricted to only reviewing in our shift :) | 18:38 |
| lfaraone | wendar: if by "weekend" you mean "next weekend", not "this weekend", then sure. :) | 18:39 |
| ajmitch | it'd be nice if people are looking at submissions as they come in | 18:39 |
| highvoltage | ajmitch: I just haven't had time since UDS, but I'm sure I'll get into the swing of things | 18:39 |
| ajmitch | this sort of relates to the 'health of the queue' item, which we can probably all agree is pretty poor still | 18:40 |
| wendar | lfaraone: I meant "generic weekend, as in sometime when you've got a bit of free time and interest" | 18:40 |
| lfaraone | wendar: works for me :) | 18:40 |
| ajmitch | I've looked at a few submissions in my spare time recently, and noticed that quite a few of them just don't have source | 18:40 |
| wendar | ajmitch: you can reply to those immediately, requesting the source | 18:41 |
| wendar | ajmitch: no need to wait for a longer review | 18:41 |
| ajmitch | Do we have published rules for rejection of packages, such as it needs to do something useful? | 18:41 |
| wendar | I even have a fixed blurb of text for "please submit source code" | 18:41 |
| ajmitch | wendar: right, I've been meaning to do that as I come across them, often I can't download the submission anyway due to the bug linked earlier | 18:42 |
| ajmitch | I usually do some hunting for the upstream project & look for a source download there if there is one | 18:42 |
| lfaraone | wendar: do we have things like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses ? | 18:42 |
| wendar | I'm collecting them here, but we could split out to a separate page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Review | 18:43 |
| ajmitch | https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/399/ is probably one that can be rejected if I can think of a polite way to say "Submission must be more than just boilerplate code" | 18:43 |
| lfaraone | lolwut. I don't even. | 18:44 |
| wendar | ajmitch: Our guidelines are on that same page, but they don't say anything about "useful". | 18:44 |
| wendar | I wondered about Awesome Os too. | 18:45 |
| ajmitch | it looks like someone submitted the output of 'quickly create', I didn't spot anything original in it | 18:45 |
| lfaraone | I love the honest rationale. | 18:45 |
| * ajmitch is just hunting for the bug now that mpt wrote | 18:45 | |
| wendar | I'm torn between "it doesn't do anything", and "well, it's just a silly app, like you'd find on Android, maybe it doesn't need to do anything" | 18:45 |
| ajmitch | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntudeveloperportal/+bug/873443 | 18:45 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 873443 in Ubuntu App Developer site "No published rules for rejecting applications" [Undecided,New] | 18:45 |
| wendar | it certainly won't make its way into Debian or main/universe | 18:46 |
| lfaraone | wendar: Of course not. But we should have some sort of rule "somebody somewhere besides the author must find this useful" | 18:46 |
| wendar | probably won't even continue from Oneiric to Precise | 18:46 |
| ajmitch | wendar: silly app, but it really doesn't look like an original creation beyond running quickly | 18:46 |
| ajmitch | I don't think we should set the bar that low | 18:46 |
| lfaraone | ajmitch: see "long tail" in http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/the_popcon_problem/ | 18:47 |
| wendar | so, proposed addition to our review guidelines | 18:47 |
| ajmitch | otherwise we may as well accept the hello world 'app' that was used for testing :) | 18:47 |
| wendar | under "Content" | 18:47 |
| wendar | "App should be useful or interesting to a general audience" | 18:48 |
| wendar | not quite right | 18:48 |
| lfaraone | http://pad.ubuntu.com/arb-guidelines | 18:48 |
| ajmitch | wendar: we also had mention somewhere of submissions needing to be applications instead of data or documentation | 18:48 |
| ajmitch | which is important because I saw a recent submission of fonts | 18:49 |
| ajmitch | https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/196/ | 18:50 |
| ajmitch | right, I found the original reference to it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PostReleaseApps/Process | 18:51 |
| ajmitch | sorry to mess up the pad, I just pasted in the relevant section | 18:52 |
| lfaraone | no worries. | 18:52 |
| wendar | ajmitch: ah, I was just going to ask if you got that from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ExtensionRepositoryPolicy | 18:53 |
| lfaraone | do we need content to be DFSG-free / under a free license? | 18:53 |
| wendar | ajmitch: but then, the second page started from the PostReleaseApps process | 18:53 |
| lfaraone | Like if I make a game with a non-free soundtrack, or propreitary maps. That's totally cool (explicitly allowed in the GPL FAQ!) but not suitable for main or universe, maybe. | 18:53 |
| ajmitch | wendar: there are a few too many wiki pages on this | 18:54 |
| wendar | lfaraone: yes, the ARB only reviews fully DFSG-free content | 18:54 |
| wendar | ajmitch: yes | 18:54 |
| lfaraone | ajmitch: we need to have a full-time wiki gardener. | 18:54 |
| wendar | ajmitch: the PostReleaseApps pages are deprecated, I should add a note | 18:54 |
| * ajmitch isn't volunteering for that role, fwiw :) | 18:54 | |
| coolbhavi | hello all! I'm sorry I came late to the meeting | 18:54 |
| ajmitch | coolbhavi: glad you could join us, we're still going :) | 18:55 |
| wendar | ajmitch: but, they also include content that isn't anywhere else yet (though, it's also partially out-of-date) | 18:55 |
| coolbhavi | :) | 18:55 |
| ajmitch | wendar: as long as it doesn't conflict with what we do now it should be ok to refer to | 18:56 |
| wendar | How about linking to the ExtensionRepositoryPolicy from ours, but giving easier short explanations? | 18:56 |
| wendar | I like "Apps should not be forks of existing applications in the archive." | 18:56 |
| ajmitch | sounds fair | 18:56 |
| wendar | it's quick and easy to understand | 18:56 |
| coolbhavi | wendar, sounds good +1 here :) | 18:57 |
| lfaraone | wendar: which also covers things which are obviously just GNU hello. | 18:57 |
| lfaraone | wendar: would it be sensible also to say "should not be a clone of something in the archive"? | 18:58 |
| lfaraone | wendar: like, if I pull a gnote and implement another application feature-for-feature, etc. | 18:58 |
| wendar | depends on what clone means | 18:58 |
| ajmitch | 'useful or interesting to a general audience' is suitably vague that it gives us some discretion as to what to let in | 18:58 |
| wendar | we'd certainly allow two independent implementations of, say a Last.fm client | 18:58 |
| wendar | but, a straight copy-and-resubmit we wouldn't | 18:59 |
| ajmitch | there are some specialised applications that most people wouldn't use but would still be useful to some, I think we would let those through | 19:00 |
| coolbhavi | lfaraone, fair enough like we give scope for a wider variety of apps by saying that it shouldnt be an exact clone but as wendar said clone should have an unambiguous meaning | 19:00 |
| lfaraone | hmmm. | 19:01 |
| lfaraone | Okay, scratch that. I was trying to come up with a case that would make this rule relevant and it ended up sounding much too contrived. | 19:03 |
| ajmitch | about that tools & libraries one I just added - we don't really want apps bundling libraries, how far should we go in disallowing it? | 19:03 |
| * lfaraone will have to duck out. | 19:03 | |
| ajmitch | lfaraone: thanks for being here | 19:04 |
| lfaraone | ajmitch: you should not bundle a library already packaged. | 19:04 |
| * highvoltage too in a minute or so) | 19:04 | |
| ajmitch | the problem is when a package needs a compiler which isn't in ubuntu :) | 19:04 |
| ajmitch | ok we should probably take this one to the list then | 19:04 |
| lfaraone | ajmitch: like, something for a language we don't support, or just a newer version of an exsiting lang? | 19:05 |
| ajmitch | lfaraone: new language, a couple are built with some obscure BASIC dialect | 19:05 |
| wendar | ajmitch: it's a good one to add to the list | 19:05 |
| ajmitch | they're submissions in the queue at the moment | 19:06 |
| lfaraone | wendar: "must use existing languages"? | 19:06 |
| ajmitch | wendar: I'm just not sure where to draw the line on libraries, since some can be large | 19:06 |
| ajmitch | a definite +1 on not bundling new versions of boost or Qt for example | 19:07 |
| coolbhavi | here too I ve seen some of them being sizeable | 19:08 |
| highvoltage | I can guess the answer to this, but I'd just like to be 100% sure, may an ARB app depend on something in the -backports repository? | 19:09 |
| ajmitch | highvoltage: we haven't discussed that afaik, I'd vote yes though | 19:10 |
| highvoltage | ajmitch: it sounds like it could potentially be a sane way to deal with things like new versions of qt | 19:10 |
| wendar | there's a technical problem at the moment, I don't think an Extras package has any way to automatically pull something from backports | 19:11 |
| coolbhavi | highvoltage, yes, but if thats optional, then a +1 here | 19:11 |
| ajmitch | right, though it's usually tricky to backport libraries because all reverse (build-)depends need to be tested with it | 19:11 |
| wendar | hmmm... even if it could, that's potentially dangerous, updating a system library to a backports version | 19:11 |
| ajmitch | wendar: afaik it should technically work if there's a versioned dependency satisfied only by backports, as long as both extras & backports are kept enabled | 19:12 |
| highvoltage | I lack a little history, has the topic of appimages ever come up before? | 19:12 |
| wendar | like, what if the app depends on a newer version of Qt, so pulls it in from backports, and the version of Unity the user is running breaks on the newer version of Qt? | 19:12 |
| ajmitch | wendar: then that version of Qt wouldn't be allowed into backports | 19:12 |
| wendar | backports tests "build, install, run", but doesn't test that it works with all dependencies | 19:12 |
| wendar | i.e. they don't test every package in the archive that uses the backported package | 19:13 |
| ajmitch | they should, people are asked to do that when submitting a backport request | 19:13 |
| ajmitch | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports#How_to_request_new_packages has the rules for libraries | 19:15 |
| wendar | "A backport should never cause any other package on the system to break" | 19:15 |
| wendar | that's good | 19:15 |
| wendar | but also "New versions of libraries are strongly discouraged" | 19:15 |
| ajmitch | it's not a complete cowboy operation ;) | 19:15 |
| wendar | which makes sense | 19:15 |
| wendar | but, also means it's not very useful for the scenario where an app needs a new version of a library | 19:16 |
| ajmitch | right, but there's no easy way to handle that without shipping a private copy of a system library | 19:16 |
| wendar | because, if the changes between versions are so minimal that they have no disruptions | 19:16 |
| wendar | then the ARB app will likely still support the old and new versions simultaneously | 19:16 |
| wendar | but, in general, it seems fine to allow backports, if we can solve the problem of pulling in backports as a dependency | 19:17 |
| ajmitch | I don't know of a good way to test it, but I think the biggest problem is in building the package rather than installing on a user's system | 19:18 |
| wendar | for example, a new library that isn't in Oneiric, but is in Precise and gets backported to Oneiric, should be no problem | 19:18 |
| wendar | ajmitch: As I understand it, you have to take a manual step to enable backports for a specific package | 19:19 |
| ajmitch | PPAs can depend on backports, I just checked on LP | 19:19 |
| wendar | ajmitch: so, how would the Extras package pull in the backports package? | 19:19 |
| wendar | I think this is a question for the backports team | 19:20 |
| ajmitch | wendar: afaik it's a PPA change rather than per-package - if apt can satisfy the dependency only by backports it will pull in the package | 19:20 |
| wendar | does anyone want to volunteer to chat with them before next meeting? | 19:20 |
| ajmitch | sure, I will | 19:20 |
| wendar | ajmitch: that part isn't a problem, backports is enabled by default in Oneiric | 19:20 |
| wendar | ajmitch: but, it's enabled by default with no packages turned on | 19:21 |
| wendar | ajmitch: cool, thanks! | 19:21 |
| ajmitch | wendar: yep, that's set in the Release file as NotAutomatic: Yes | 19:21 |
| ajmitch | I need to check on the other flag that I know of for that | 19:22 |
| ajmitch | #action ajmitch to ask about ARB apps depending on backported packages | 19:22 |
| meetingology | ACTION: ajmitch to ask about ARB apps depending on backported packages | 19:22 |
| wendar | yeah, specifically "is there a way to specify the backports version of X in the Depends line of a package" | 19:22 |
| wendar | or Build-Depends | 19:22 |
| ajmitch | we should probably wrap up this meeting soon | 19:22 |
| ajmitch | a simple versioned (Build-)Depends should cover it | 19:23 |
| ajmitch | it's the same situation in debian for experimental, I saw a discussion on it a couple of days ago | 19:23 |
| wendar | I'll copy our Content requirements from the etherpad into the wiki page | 19:23 |
| ajmitch | thanks | 19:23 |
| ajmitch | AOB? | 19:23 |
| ajmitch | oh I almost forgot | 19:24 |
| wendar | as an FYI, Anthony Lenton is working now on making our MyApps queue public | 19:24 |
| wendar | (public read-only) | 19:24 |
| ajmitch | is it worth having a meeting next month, since it falls between christmas & new year? | 19:24 |
| wendar | bad timing | 19:25 |
| wendar | but, I'd hate to go 2 months between | 19:25 |
| ajmitch | yeah, I may be around but I don't know who else may be | 19:25 |
| wendar | could we do say 2 weeks from now | 19:25 |
| highvoltage | I can be there. | 19:25 |
| wendar | and mid january? | 19:25 |
| coolbhavi | yes why not have it 2 weeks from now and mid jan? +1 | 19:26 |
| ajmitch | wendar: when do you fly out for LCA? | 19:26 |
| wendar | ajmitch: probably saturday (so the day after that mid-jan meeting) | 19:26 |
| ajmitch | wendar: remember that it's saturday here for me now | 19:26 |
| coolbhavi | me too | 19:26 |
| wendar | aye, that's why I added the clarification | 19:27 |
| coolbhavi | early morning 1 am here | 19:27 |
| wendar | (my saturday, not your saturday) | 19:27 |
| ajmitch | wendar: ah right :) | 19:27 |
| wendar | I'll be around and free that Friday between Xmas and New Year too | 19:27 |
| ajmitch | ok, 2 weeks from now is 9th december, 18:00 UTC | 19:27 |
| ajmitch | who volunteers to be chair? | 19:27 |
| ajmitch | wendar: I'll miss the january meeting just because I get to leave ballarat at about 7AM to get to the airport | 19:28 |
| wendar | that's the middle of a Review shift, so should work out (the 9th, I mean) | 19:29 |
| ajmitch | ok | 19:29 |
| wendar | ajmitch: okay, we can decide at Dec 9th if it's worth a mid-Jan meeting | 19:29 |
| ajmitch | highvoltage: want to chair the next one? :) | 19:29 |
| stgraber | ajmitch: I guess I can chair. We may also want to switch to having the next chair be the next one in alphabetical order (that's how the DMB and TB do it now and saves quite a bit of time) | 19:30 |
| ajmitch | stgraber: ok, sounds good | 19:30 |
| ajmitch | with that, I guess we're done, unless anyone has something to add | 19:30 |
| wendar | thanks ajmitch! | 19:31 |
| ajmitch | thanks everyone, sorry it took so long :) | 19:31 |
| ajmitch | #endmeeting | 19:31 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ||
| meetingology | Meeting ended Fri Nov 25 19:31:54 2011 UTC. | 19:31 |
| meetingology | Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-25-18.00.moin.txt | 19:31 |
| highvoltage | ajmitch: I guess since it's my ARB day, I might as well :) | 19:33 |
| ajmitch | highvoltage: you missed out sorry, stgraber volunteered | 19:33 |
| highvoltage | ah, no complaints :) | 19:33 |
| ajmitch | I didn't think you'd mind too much | 19:34 |
| coolbhavi | thanks! and good night everyone :) | 19:34 |
| highvoltage | I never complain if I have less work to do | 19:34 |
| highvoltage | night coolbhavi | 19:34 |
| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk | ||
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