[00:00] <scoundrel50a> how do you enable everything?
[00:00] <scoundrel50a> is it through compiz?
[00:00] <ali1234> it's enabled by default
[00:00] <scoundrel50a> oh, ok.
[00:01] <gordonjcp> "laptop will suspend very soon unless it is plugged in"
[00:01] <gordonjcp> bet it doesn't
[00:01] <ali1234> seriously i have no idea what that control panel thing is supposed to be
[00:01] <penguin42> ali1234: pretty
[00:02] <gordonjcp> nope
[00:03] <gordonjcp> once again, it didn't suspend
[00:04] <AlanBell> scoundrel50a: you can turn on more bling using ccsm
[00:05] <AlanBell> but you will probably turn on crashes too, and maybe struggle to recover from them
[00:05] <AlanBell> !ccsm
[00:05] <lubotu3`> To enable advanced customization of desktop effects in Ubuntu: install 'compizconfig-settings-manager' (or 'simple-ccsm' for pre-Oneiric). If you install the latter, a new option will appear in your appearance properties - See also !compiz - Help in #compiz
[00:05] <AlanBell> here be dragons
[00:06] <penguin42> some of them breath fire or wobble
[00:07] <Darael> No, really, they do.  Wobbly Windows, the Burn effect, the Paint Fire on the Screen plugin...
[00:11] <AlanBell> water
[00:12] <AlanBell> night all o/
[00:12] <scoundrel50a> sorry, was busy, I wont even open ccsm, last time I did, I lost the desktop
[00:13] <scoundrel50a> I will leave it, its running ok, without changing things now
[06:24] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:36] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:40] <aeroplanez> Hello
[07:40] <aeroplanez> good morning
[08:18] <DJones> Morning all
[08:24] <FND> good morning
[08:24] <FND> anyone know when Thunderbird 8 is supposed to land?
[08:25] <diplo> Morning all
[08:29] <popey> FND: ask chrisccoulson
[08:32] <FND> popey: thanks for pinging him for me ;)
[08:33] <sagaci> if someone here is on oneiric or precise that has xchat installed, could you please check if the menu Settings > Advanced > "Dialogue Buttons", instead of Dialog Buttons
[08:33] <sagaci> also check if your language is set to English (United Kingdom)
[08:34] <popey> sagaci: xchat or xchat-gnome?
[08:35] <sagaci> xchat vanilla
[08:35] <popeytestingxcha> ah
[08:36] <popey> sagaci: mine says dialog
[08:36] <daubers> Morning
[08:36] <popey> sagaci: where are you setting English (United Kingdom) ?
[08:36] <danfish> lo
[08:36] <popey> lo
[08:36] <sagaci> I'd test it myself but language changing is broken at the moment in precise
[08:36] <sagaci> language support
[08:36] <sagaci> on precise, up to date
[08:37] <zeem> I didn't even mean to come in here - it seems Ubuntu's Xchat is set to this server by default :-D
[08:37] <popey> yeah, it is
[08:37] <zeem> I'll hang around for a bit before I start work
[08:37] <popey> hmm, lang support is installing extra stuff
[08:38] <sagaci> it's just that the en_GB pot has been done upstream but hasn't changed in ubuntu yet (pot was done mid oneiric cycle)
[08:38] <zeem> Got to go, someone just turned up
[08:38] <popey> yup, still dialog buttons
[08:38] <popey> o/ zeem
[08:39] <popeytestingxcha> so this is what xchat looks like
[08:39] <sagaci> no worries, I'll file a bug about it
[08:39] <popeytestingxcha> I haven't used this for about 5 years
[08:50] <imexil> Hi does any one have a clue why it takes so long to get the current TB 8.0 into the oneiric repo?
[08:53] <bigcalm> Good early morning peeps :)
[08:55] <popey> imexil: it was built only 12 hours ago by the look of it
[08:55] <popey> probably a security issue holding it up, as happened with firefox 7.0
[08:55] <popey> (we didnt ship firefox 7.0, we skipped it and went to 7.0.1)
[08:56] <imexil> thanks popey for the info
[08:56] <popey> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=oneiric
[08:56] <popey> you can see it in that ppa
[08:56] <popey> so I expect it will hit 11.10 soon
[08:56] <FND> \o/
[08:57] <FND> (normally I wouldn't care, but I figured I should give Lightning a try, which requires TB8)
[08:58] <bigcalm> Thunderbirds and Lightning, very very frightening to meeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[08:58] <FND> bigcalm: how so? I'd love to hear more about it (personally, I don't like that there's no standalone version anymore)
[08:58] <popey> hahah
[08:58] <popey> FND: think of Queen.
[08:59]  * FND ponders
[08:59] <popey> Sing what bigcalm said
[08:59] <bigcalm> FND: you can ignore my sillyness this morning
[08:59] <FND> I'm afraid I'm horrible with pop culture references
[08:59] <bigcalm> Or too young?
[08:59] <FND> that too
[09:00] <FND> (in general that is, given that mentally I'm a grumpy old bastard)
[09:00] <bigcalm> !ohmy
[09:00] <lubotu3`> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
[09:00] <popey> Hah, there's a lot of that here
[09:00] <bigcalm> But we are many
[09:01] <FND> is "bastard" considered an offensive word, bigcalm?
[09:01] <imexil> you got to ask lubotu3` this
[09:01] <imexil> ;)
[09:02] <bigcalm> I'd be ok with it if you were talking about a metal file. But it is a term of abuse otherwise
[09:02] <FND> uh huh
[09:04] <AlanBell> happy Friday everyone
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> black friday, as Americans call it
[09:04] <popey>  _____     _     _
[09:04] <popey> |  ___| __(_) __| | __ _ _   _
[09:04] <popey> | |_ | '__| |/ _` |/ _` | | | |
[09:04] <popey> |  _|| |  | | (_| | (_| | |_| |
[09:04] <popey> |_|  |_|  |_|\__,_|\__,_|\__, |
[09:04] <popey>                          |___/
[09:04] <popey> \o/
[09:04] <bigcalm> AlanBell: real Friday is FTW!
[09:09] <gord> non monospace font :(
[09:09] <FND> *gasp*!
[09:10] <bigcalm> Ubuntu mono is the only font allowed
[09:12] <gord> ubuntu mono is great, but i'm reading text here, 99.999% not formatted with spaces text - so it doesn't really make sense
[09:13] <bigcalm> Ah
[09:13]  * FND also prefers monospace for e-mail (plain-text, natch)
[09:15] <FND> http://www.xkcd.com/276/
[09:15] <willcooke> Does anyone one know anyone inside plus.net?  My broadband is playing up and the helpdesk guys don't understand
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> "You, like, don't understand, man."
[09:23] <AlanBell> willcooke: ask in the forums
[09:24] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :D
[09:24] <AlanBell> willcooke: they have super support people monitoring them and responding
[09:25] <willcooke> AlanBell, there's the rub.  My speed it about 500 bps, and they won't do anything until I've run a speed test on the BT web site.  But I can't run a test, because my speed is about 500 bps!
[09:27] <AlanBell> willcooke: turn the fttc box off and on randomly
[09:28] <AlanBell> then it will turn up on their little graph thing like this http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,97734.msg827919.html#msg827919
[09:28] <popey> haha, excellent
[09:29] <AlanBell> all they can see is resyncs happening and the box reauthenticating
[09:30] <bigcalm> Nice
[09:30] <willcooke> :)
[09:30] <AlanBell> here is what I did for a month to stop the box overheating http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,97734.msg827516.html#msg827516
[09:31] <AlanBell> but I had to keep stopping the fan to let the line drop, or they closed it as fixed!
[09:31] <swat___> aha, i have figured out how to make my desktop more responsive!
[09:31] <swat___> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwapFaq#What_is_swappiness_and_how_do_I_change_it.3F
[09:31] <swat___> stop it swapping :)
[09:31] <swat___> well, not stop - reduce
[09:33] <awilkins> Grrargh, where are all the reasonably priced laptops that have a screen resolution that *isn't* 1366x768
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: I have this cheap 800x600 laptop...
[09:34] <awilkins> The only thing with fewer vertical pixels is a netbook... I've not used a display that rubbish since the 16-bit era
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> 640x480!
[09:36] <awilkins> BBC Micro - 320x200, 160x256, etc
[09:36]  * MartijnVdS had 720x348
[09:37] <MartijnVdS> Hercules \o/
[09:37] <popey> \o/ Hercules
[09:37] <popey> 720x350 wasnt it?
[09:37] <MartijnVdS> popey: dosbox does a good emulation of it :)
[09:37]  * awilkins never owned a PC without a 3D accelerator of some kind (even if it was a discrete 3dfx card)
[09:37] <MartijnVdS> 720x350 physically, but in "graphics mode" only 348 pixels were useable, because that's a multiple of 4
[09:38] <popey> ahhh
[09:42] <awilkins> I went round the laptop stall at Tesco looking at the display properties (it would be a disaster if they printed the resolution on the spec card, wouldn't it?) and they are all 1366x768
[09:42] <awilkins> My first work laptop 10 years ago was 1600x1200
[09:43] <oimon> bet that cost a few quid
[09:43] <awilkins> I have no idea, it was provided by the office
[09:43] <awilkins> But probably
[09:44] <awilkins> But I'm prepared to bet it would cost more now. FLipping consumer display industry churning out bazillions of 1366x786 panels for seat back TV and the like
[09:44]  * awilkins shakes his fist
[09:44] <oimon> awilkins: wow, you're right. i can't even find display resolution on the tech specs area of the dell site
[09:45] <awilkins> oimon, It's all "WXGA+" and similar crap now
[09:45] <oimon> ah, they have it
[09:45] <awilkins> oimon, I need to refer to the wikipedia page to find out what they mean
[09:45] <oimon> 15.6” HD (1366x768) Anti-Glare LED
[09:45] <oimon> 15.6” FHD (1920x1080) Anti-Glare LED
[09:47] <oimon> decent looking laptop if you're not interested in bling: http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/latitude-e5520/pd
[09:47] <popey> every laptop I look at now looks rubbish compared to the MBP and thinkpad.
[09:47] <popey> just looks
[09:48] <popey> the two-tone colour I hate
[09:48] <MartijnVdS> I like the looks of Vaios
[09:48]  * FND has a ThinkPad T420 and is less than satisfied
[09:48] <popey> the proliferation of ports
[09:48] <MartijnVdS> except I've stopped buying Sony stuff
[09:48] <popey> yeah, some of the sonys I saw a year or so back look nice
[09:48] <awilkins> My memory of Thinkpads is that they are not at all stylish and they give off an aura of robust functionality
[09:49] <awilkins> They would be on my list to consider for myself... this is for a "family" laptop as a family christmas pressie
[09:49] <popey> at least they're all one colour ☺
[09:49] <FND> awilkins: all I can say of this T420 is that, even though I made sure to get a matte display, the screen is unusable with a bit of (indirect) sunlight
[09:49] <gord> pfft the x220 thinkpad has like... a curvy bit. very stylish
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> Thinkpads that aren't shaped like bricks?!

[09:50] <awilkins> Although I suppose the Thinkpad line is more likely to run Linux properly
[09:50] <awilkins> (is this still true since IBM stopped owning them?)
[09:50] <popey> yup
[09:50] <FND> awilkins: I had trouble with 11.04 (probably due to Sandy Bridge), but the 3.x kernel seems to support it well enough
[09:52] <FND> although battery life is "only" ~4.5h
[09:52] <awilkins> My daughter, bless her, has already formed the impression that Windows is slow and rubbish and Linux is fast from having Windows XP and Ubuntu installed on her netbook
[09:53] <gord> surely for a fair test you'd have to install a linux distro from 2001 ;)
[09:54] <awilkins> Oh hell, it's "Black Friday"
[09:55] <awilkins> Whee, 15% off on Lenovo
[09:55] <popey> ooo
[09:55]  * awilkins starts to warm up to Black Friday
[09:55] <popey> where?
[09:56] <awilkins> On lenovo.com
[09:56] <FND> and so it begins - money corrupts people, QED
[09:57] <awilkins> Great coupon code - CYBERWEEKEND15
[09:57] <Laney> what is black friday?
[09:57] <Laney> isn't that an american thing?
[09:58] <Laney> huh, amazon.co.uk are doing it too
[09:58] <awilkins> Yup, but retailers in the UK have decided to try it out this year to stoke up demand
[09:58] <Laney> not going to say no to discounts
[09:58] <awilkins> It's probably safer in the UK because we queue in a more orderly manner
[09:59] <FND> hah
[09:59] <oimon> amazon is recommending "Threads" TV series to me
[10:00] <oimon> i remember my parents wouldn't let me watch that when i was 9
[10:01] <awilkins> Whoa... a couple of the high-end T520 models are discounted by ludicrous amounts. They're still rather expensive for a family kick-about laptop though
[10:06] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> Uh oh. Someone let Lennart out of his cage again.
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> popey: Prepare for several flamewars :) http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-journal.html
[10:23] <Laney> already happening
[10:23] <Laney> also, google multiple sign in is irritating… why can't it remember the account i used last?
[10:25] <MartijnVdS> Laney: already happening?
[10:25] <Laney> that journal business has been doing the rounds
[10:25] <MarquessDeBonBon> What is "The Journal"?
[10:26] <MartijnVdS> Laney: even a petition on change.org 8-)
[10:26] <MarquessDeBonBon> I'm sure whatever it is, Canonical will find a way to use it to alienate users.
[10:26] <Laney> lwn has an article on it
[10:26] <daubers> urgh, is there a banshee ppa with a more stable version in it?
[10:26] <MartijnVdS> Laney: subscribers only
[10:27] <Laney> having one of those is worthwhile
[10:27] <Laney> banshe 2.2.1 is in proposed
[10:27] <Laney> +e
[10:27] <MarquessDeBonBon> MartijnVdS, is there any semi-reliable ranking for Linux distro market share? Distrowatch doesn't fill me with confidence.
[10:27] <MartijnVdS> MarquessDeBonBon: no.
[10:27] <Laney> and updates, but there is an extra patch in proposed
[10:27] <MarquessDeBonBon> That's a shame.
[10:27] <MartijnVdS> I have it
[10:27] <MartijnVdS> and it doesn't crash anymore now
[10:27] <MarquessDeBonBon> I take it user agent strings in Linux browsers don't contain distro info?
[10:28] <daubers> Hmmm..... could enable proposed
[10:28] <Laney> depends what your problem is
[10:28] <MartijnVdS> But it still doesn't recognise MTP devices (different problem I know)
[10:28] <Laney> there is also a daily ppa and an unstable ppa
[10:28] <Laney> (some) mtp devices
[10:28] <daubers> Laney: greying out when I load it and just hanging greyed out
[10:28] <Laney> mine works
[10:30] <daubers> Laney: Mine works sometimes :)
[10:30] <popey> MartijnVdS: yeah ☺
[10:30] <daubers> No idea what it's hanging on
[10:30] <daubers> if anyone can tell me how to suss that out I'll happily file bugs
[10:31] <MartijnVdS> Laney: My Xoom and Galaxy Nexus don't
[10:31] <Laney> banshee --debug --debug-addins --redirect-log
[10:31] <daubers> Laney: Ta :) Will start firing it up with those
[10:31] <Laney> pastebinit ~/.config/banshee-1/log
[10:31] <Laney> :-)
[10:35] <Laney> there was a guy from ubuntu-uk who started hacking on banshee some time ago and then disappeared
[10:35] <Laney> wonder what happened there :(
[10:36] <MartijnVdS> Laney: http://pastebin.com/bkpPGyXk
[10:36] <MartijnVdS> Laney: it's not detected at all.. nothing happens in the log when I plug in my phone
[10:37] <Laney> :(
[10:37] <Laney> all i can suggest is to please file a bug
[10:37] <MartijnVdS> Laney: there's a bug on gnome.org which claims it's a bug in gudev
[10:38] <Laney> you can also look at a picture of my cat wearing a moustache https://p.twimg.com/Ae9uTkaCEAE0Dwq.jpg
[10:38] <Laney> hth
[10:38] <bigcalm> Awwww
[10:38] <MartijnVdS> Laney: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=660681
[10:38] <lubotu3`> Gnome bug 660681 in Device - MTP "MTP device detection fails with banshee-2.2" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[10:38] <MartijnVdS> Laney: my bug looks like that
[10:39] <DJones> Laney: What did you use to drug the cat to get it to stay still long enough for the photo
[10:39] <Laney> my sister did it
[10:39] <Laney> he sleeps like a log
[10:39] <Laney> 98% of the time (the other 2% are split between eating and making a racket)
[10:53] <daubers> \o/ crash it goes
[10:54] <daubers> http://paste.ubuntu.com/749140/
[10:54] <daubers> Hmm.. not very helpful
[10:54]  * daubers tries it sans galaxy S II
[11:02] <davmor2> morning all
[11:02] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod, morning
[11:03] <danfish> hello again all
[11:04] <awilkins> Morning, danfish
[11:04] <danfish> awilkins: how's Leeds these days?
[11:05] <brobostigon> morning danfish
[11:06] <danfish> I've got bits and bobs of (rubbish) code and equally rubbish PCB designs lying around on a number of machines etc
[11:06] <danfish> how best to synchronise and version control?
[11:06] <danfish> I suppose it's bzr vs git
[11:07] <awilkins> I like both
[11:07] <gord> depends if you really need version control, if its not something your maintaining, you could just throw it in u1/dropbox
[11:07] <gord> which would be a much much simpler solution
[11:07] <gord> i keep bash scripts i use in u1 for example
[11:07] <awilkins> Yeah, there is that
[11:08] <awilkins> I currently use Dropbox over U1 purely because the proxy support in U1 doesn't satisfy me on Windows or Ubuntu
[11:08] <awilkins> Dropbox's proxy support isn't up to scratch either, but at least you can use it behind a proxy
[11:09] <popey> android users.. if you had an app installed and know the name but cant be bothered scrolling, is there a quick search like the unity dash to find stuff?
[11:11] <gord> not that i know of, is a pain
[11:11] <DJones> I can't find a way either
[11:11] <AlanBell> always been surprised at how rubbish searching is on Google's operating system
[11:12] <bigcalm> popey: no
[11:12] <popey> thats odd
[11:12] <AlanBell> marketplace search is a bit rubbish too
[11:12] <popey> do the vendors add on frontends which let you do it?
[11:13] <DJones> Not on HTC that I know of
[11:13] <bigcalm> No idea. Though I'm not sure I'd have enough apps installed for it to be quicker to search by name than a quick flick of my thumb
[11:13] <awilkins> I think I may just have to accept that laptop manufacturers don't want me to have a screen with a resolution above 1366x768
[11:13] <oimon> adnroid market started telling me i have updates available for apps on different accounts - really annoying
[11:14] <awilkins> Gits
[11:14] <danfish> awilkins: gord : tx - it's gonna be experimentation time
[11:14] <oimon> awilkins: did you see the machine i posted a link to?
[11:14] <oimon> that had higher resol
[11:14] <awilkins> oimon, the dell?
[11:14] <oimon> ye[p
[11:14] <oimon> there's plenty around
[11:14] <DJones> awilkins: I got a HP with 1600*900
[11:14] <oimon> just not the acer £300 ones
[11:14] <popey> 13
[11:14] <DJones> awilkins: Not sure what size you're looking for though
[11:15] <popey> bah
[11:15] <gord> gamer laptops do a bunch of higher res screens, but you won't get more than 5 minutes battery life ;)
[11:15] <awilkins> Lenovo don't have anything without a 1366x768 display below £800 base price...
[11:15] <awilkins> Naah, just a "lap" laptop
[11:15] <awilkins> Family use
[11:15] <awilkins> I suspect the fixation on screen resolution is misplaced
[11:16] <gord> i use unity so 768 is fine for me :P
[11:17] <awilkins> Hah, I like the way that Dell "Premium Panel Guarantee" only covers pixels stuck on
[11:17] <DJones> awilkins: I got this about 6 months ago, although the i3 version http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5084791/c_1/1%7Ccategory_root%7COffice%2C+PCs+and+phones%7C14418968/c_2/2%7C14418968%7CLaptops+and+netbooks%7C14419039.htm#pdpFullProductInformation
[11:18] <awilkins> Woo
[11:18] <awilkins> Enormous
[11:18] <awilkins> 1600x900 ... not bad, not ideal, but not bad
[11:18] <DJones> This is the one I got http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5084849/c_1/1%7Ccategory_root%7COffice%2C+PCs+and+phones%7C14418968/c_2/2%7C14418968%7CLaptops+and+netbooks%7C14419039.htm But seems to be discontinued now
[11:18] <awilkins> I guess you can't get a 4:3 panel at say 1600x1200 anymore....
[11:19] <DJones> I looked for something that sort of size, but didn't find anything
[11:20] <AlanBell> awilkins: "widescreen" should really be called "shortscreen"
[11:20] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: lol
[11:20] <awilkins> AlanBell, Yeah, where are the panel makers serving the programmer market with high vertical pixel couns
[11:21] <danfish> AlanBell: agreed - it's bit daft IMO to advertise a laptop as being widescreen and 'HD ready' when most users are probably going to use them to watch movies for <5% of time
[11:21] <awilkins> DJones, do you not just hate chiclet keys though?
[11:21] <Myrtti> train chochoooooo
[11:22] <DJones> awilkins: Mine has a normal keyboard, not come across one of those
[11:22] <Myrtti> free wifi woo
[11:22] <awilkins> DJones, There's one of those i3 models within 10 minutes drive
[11:23]  * AlanBell has a 2048x1152 screen that rotates 90 degrees :)
[11:23] <awilkins> DJones, Bless the Argos stock checker
[11:23] <DJones> awilkins: Mine works fine with Ubuntu 11.10, only oddity is the screen brightness is set to minimum at boot & has to be reset
[11:24] <awilkins> DJones, So the shots on the website are not accurate? They seem to be using the same G Series photo for all of them...
[11:26] <DJones> What do you mean by chiclet keyboard, I would describe my keyboard as a normal one
[11:26] <awilkins> DJones, The ones where the keys look like chiclet gum - square with rounded corners, and the edges drop straight off and are not chamfered - flat tops
[11:27] <awilkins> Like a Macbook
[11:27] <awilkins> Whereas I call a normal keyboard one where the keytops are convex, they have sloping sides - like a desktop keyboard but a bit shorter
[11:28] <DJones> Possibly then, I find the keyboard quite good though
[11:28] <oimon> i prefer chiclet keys to the thin laptop keys that scrape against the side of your finger a la eee pc or dell keyboards
[11:32] <DJones> awilkins: Might just be worth calling in there and asking if you can look at it before you think about buying it
[11:32] <awilkins> DJones, Yeah, or looking at one in Tesco - I think I saw one on display (may be mistaken, all the panels in there were 1366x768)
[11:33] <awilkins> But I think over 900 pixels high is too much to ask on the planned budget
[11:33] <DJones> awilkins: My priority was screen size & that seemed about the best for price/specification I could find
[11:35] <DJones> I'd never been a fan of HP before, but I've been happy with what I got
[11:35] <awilkins> We have HP units at work and in general I'm happier with them than Dell ones
[11:36] <DJones> And it plays minecraft without a dedicated nvidia/ATI graphics card so it does what I want
[11:36] <awilkins> The one I have has survived 4 years which is a feat given the thrashing that I give it combined with the extra load that ICT install on it
[11:36] <awilkins> Evie likes Minecraft
[11:36] <awilkins> Hmm
[11:37] <awilkins> Do you think the size of it would overwhelm a 7 year old :-) ?
[11:37] <awilkins> I suspect table-top would be the best way to go for that purpose
[11:38] <DJones> It is quite heavy
[11:38] <awilkins> She's got an NC-10 but the screen is broken ; need to get the parts and fix it
[11:38] <awilkins> And it's a bit underpowered for some of the things she wants
[11:39] <DJones> But I normally have it either on a desk or on my lap when I'm sat on a  recliner
[11:39] <awilkins> It's a nice little sofa-browser
[11:39] <bigcalm> I thought I'd use my tablet for sofa-browsing, but I still appear to use my phone as it's always on
[11:46] <awilkins> One little gripe about modern laptops - which genius thought it was a good idea to mount the trackpad closer to the left side of the case than the right?
[11:46] <oimon> it's under the keyboard
[11:46] <awilkins> I can see it's probably the result of the keyboard and trackpad chassis being re-used from prior models when they nail on a numpad
[11:47] <awilkins> But really, "yes, I just _love_ to reach across my centre line to use the trackpad"
[11:48] <oimon> it's in the centre of where your hands would be, (where the qwertyuiop is)
[11:48] <awilkins> Hmm.
[11:48] <awilkins> Ok. Maybe I've just not used one. I'm just revulsed by the off-centre-ish-ness
[11:50] <awilkins> DJones, I think that G72 has me sold, TBH.
[11:50] <awilkins> DJones, Esp since I can get the i3 version and pick it up today
[11:51] <awilkins> I don't get how they get away with calling it "super slim and lightweight" in the blurb though.. 3Kg and quite fat, from what I can see
[11:52] <daubers> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[11:52] <daubers> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/25/ofcom_customer_satisfaction_report/
[11:52] <daubers> VM come bottom or 2nd bottom of satisfaction, but they come out with a statement saying " our broadband customers remain amongst the most satisfied in the market."
[11:53] <daubers> Me thinks they don't seem to be looking at the numbers
[11:53] <awilkins> That reminds me, must pester them to upgrade my bandwidth and downgrade my price
[11:54] <awilkins> Their !!"%&!"^ web app wouldn't change my package and the last time I rang India they changed my name from "Adrian" to "Andrew".
[11:54] <awilkins> I'm happy with the service - but all I demand is that my connection doesn't drop. It does slow down a bit in the evening.
[11:58] <DJones> awilkins: Hope I haven't pointed you in the wrong direction with the laptop :)
[11:58] <awilkins> DJones, No responsibility implied...
[11:59] <awilkins> DJones, Consumer grade laptops are probably never going to satisfy me entirely, but I'm not going to shell out for a high grade workstation laptop for my family to pound on while watching strictly :-)
[12:02] <gord> really wish websites wouldn't list the size of things in "real" measurements like mm. just say "its as big as three cd cases!" or something else i know the size of!
[12:02] <awilkins> DJones, I like that the Argos reviews reveal the general demographic of the reviewer - like "45 to 54, female"
[12:02] <awilkins> DJones, You can get a sense of what their needs are and the review is more in context
[12:05] <popey> away lunch
[12:05] <bigcalm> Oo, now there's an idea
[12:07] <awilkins> gord, or have the product shots taken with Ronnie Corbett, ermmm, some average sized celebrity, and Arnold Schwartzenegger.
[12:08] <gord> +amillion
[12:08] <gord> amazon should be smart though, they know everything i bought from them already, just show the size of something i already bought and the product size in comparison
[12:08] <awilkins> That's not bad
[12:09] <DJones> awilkins: I've never noticed that about the demographics
[12:09] <oimon> started getting awful recommendations from amazon since buying gift certfs
[12:09] <oimon> luckily you can disable recommendations for particular items
[12:10] <awilkins> oimon, "Would you like to buy Farmville Cash? Just as good as real cash - after it's accidentally dropped into a volcano!"
[12:11] <awilkins> Hmmph, Thunderbird needs to cope better with gmail labels vs folders
[12:11] <awilkins> You search, it returns each email from every label it occurs in
[12:11] <bigcalm> How are they not working for you?
[12:11] <bigcalm> Ah
[12:12] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: thunderbird doesn't cope with the "gmail-style" of emailing very well
[12:12] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: no "Send and Archive" button :(
[12:27] <gordonjcp> thunderbird is generally pretty awful
[12:29] <gordonjcp> in ubuntu it's utterly unusable
[12:30] <Darael> That's not my experience at all.
[12:31] <gordonjcp> the tabs thing is stupid
[12:32] <gordonjcp> I've never figured out what the orange scrolly thing at the bottom is for
[12:32] <gordonjcp> it's just an annoying pointless distraction, as far as I can see
[12:32] <DJones> I just turned the tabs off
[12:32] <DJones> Have things open in a new window
[12:33] <gord> i use the conversation addon
[12:33] <gord> basically turns it in to gmail
[12:35] <gordonjcp> also, is there a way to get it to ignore mail in certain folders?
[12:35] <gordonjcp> nothing pisses me off more than having its earsplittingly loud "new mail" sound blast through my speakers and wake half the town, only to find that it's decided to tell me that some more spam has arrived
[12:35] <czajkowski> davmor2: ello
[12:36] <davmor2> czajkowski: hello
[12:38] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: there is an option to only do it for the inbox
[12:38] <AlanBell> then if your filters are the bypass the inbox type they won't trigger it
[12:39] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: but then surely that would pick up subfolders of the inbox
[12:40] <AlanBell> no idea
[12:40] <AlanBell> never has it occurred to me that it would be possible to create a subfolder of inbox
[12:40] <DJones> gordonjcp: Thunderbird has a new mail sound? I must have that turned off, not something I've ever heard
[12:41] <davmor2> DJones: I'm with you I've never heard it but then I filter mine to hell and back
[12:42] <DJones> I don't have any filtering on mine
[12:42] <gordonjcp> DJones: I keep turning it off
[12:42] <gordonjcp> DJones: but it keeps coming back
[12:44] <DJones> gordonjcp: Must be some difference between yours & my setups, I've never had any sound from thunderbird
[12:47] <davmor2> gordonjcp: I get to things from Thunderbird the annoying login drums when I get the confirmation window cause I really do want to read new mail in another folder and 100% CPU Usage when importing mail first time
[13:02] <les_h> hello, i'm wondering how i can tell what driver i'm using for my mouse?
[13:02] <MartijnVdS> les_h: there is only one?
[13:02] <MartijnVdS> les_h: why do you want to know this?
[13:04] <les_h> i have a lenovo tablet and it's got a nipple, a touchpad and a touch screen.
[13:04] <les_h> My problem is that the touchpad has a conflict with gnome
[13:05] <les_h> so it works fine in unity or xfce
[13:05] <les_h> but in gone, after a few minutes, it stops responding
[13:05] <awilkins> Laptop : Comes in a BIIIG black box
[13:06] <les_h>  MartijnVds I'm trying to figure out why my touchpad is conflicting with something in gnome
[13:07] <popey> what makes you think its 'confliting' ?
[13:09] <les_h> popey: when i start gnome, the touchpad works fine, but after a few minutes, around the time the task bar thing at the bottom gets around to launching, it quits working. it works fine with unity
[13:10] <les_h> popey: this makes me think that one of the gnome apps is killing the touchpad and i'm trying to figure out which one
[13:10] <popey> what version of ubuntu?
[13:10] <les_h> oneiric
[13:10] <popey> ah, so you're using GNOME Shell?
[13:10] <les_h> sorry oeniric with ubuntu studio
[13:10] <les_h> yes, i installed gnome 3 and i prefer it, except for this issue
[13:11] <popey> you mean GNOME Shell.. I can't help, sorry, never used it
[13:11] <les_h> is the window manager thing called a shell?  This is my first time back on linux since i left slackware for mac in 2001
[13:12] <popey> the GNOME one is called GNOME Shell, there are others, Unity, XFCE ...
[13:12] <popey> I thought Ubuntu Studio used XFCE
[13:13] <dogmatic69> a shell is generally a terminal, right?
[13:13] <popey> no
[13:13] <popey> 'generally' a shell is a wrapper around other things
[13:13] <dogmatic69> :/
[13:13] <dogmatic69> ok
[13:13] <popey> an interface between you and the computer
[13:14] <dogmatic69> ah
[13:14] <les_h> ubuntu studio does use xfce, which is awful. i felt like i had been exiled to windows 95
[13:14] <dogmatic69> so by that definition i guess gnome is a shell
[13:15] <les_h> a friend of mine suggested that a good place to start would be to check that i was using the drivers made specififcally for my touchpad, rather than generic ones
[13:15] <popey> dogmatic69: no, GNOME is a project and a foundation
[13:15] <les_h> but, alas, i'm not sure how to discover if this is the case
[13:15] <popey> les_h: i think thats a red herring
[13:16] <les_h> would counsel messages or something possibly provide a clue?
[13:16] <popey> i dont actually understand what your issue is les_h, perhaps you could describe whats happening
[13:16] <les_h> when i log in with the gnome shell, my touchpad works normally for a bit and then starts to stutter and then eventually ceases to work at all.
[13:17] <les_h> so within about 5 minutes, it stops working to move the mouse pointer or to scroll.
[13:17] <les_h> the other pointing devices on the computer still work
[13:17] <popey> I'd look at /var/log/syslog
[13:18] <popey> see if there are errors
[13:19] <les_h> ah, thanks for the suggestion!  there's a command tail -f or something that will print that out as it happens?
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> ~/.xsession-errors as well
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> try "xinput -list"
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> before and after it stops working
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> xinput list --long for even more infoz
[13:21] <Darael> "tail -f" for printing as it happens is correct - tail -f /path/to/file will print the last ten lines of the file, followed by any more that get appended until it's interrupted.
[13:24] <j0nr> Don't suppose any body has swapped from SKY to Virgin? Have opinions?
[13:26] <popey> j0nr: i did
[13:28] <les_h> ah, thanks for your help.  i'm going to login in gnome shell in a moment and try this out
[13:28] <popey> j0nr: do you want to know about tv or broadband or what?
[13:29] <awilkins> j0nr, Not swapped from Sky, but have been a Virgin customer for 10 years or so
[13:32]  * siriusly is a long-time VirginMedia customer and before that Telewest and before that Cable & Wireless going back to 1996...so there! ;)
[13:33] <siriusly> oh and before that Nynex! lol
[13:33] <awilkins> siriusly, Yeah, I was an NTL customer once
[13:33] <j0nr> popey: Well I obviously like the idea of the broadband, as SKY don't seem to be in a hurry to move to fibre-optic.
[13:33] <j0nr> Just not sure whether the choice of channels is as good...
[13:34] <awilkins> I don't watch the TV - I don't even have an STB. Still pay for the basic TV package though, because it works out the same bundling cost (and I used to have it)
[13:34] <j0nr> The boxes seem better? I currently have a SKY+ HD box, which, well, seems a bit buggy sometimes, or at least not very clever and certainly seems to randomnly delete saved programs
[13:34] <popey> j0nr: I have the Samsung HD V+ Box
[13:34] <popey> the Sky UI is better than the Virgin one
[13:34] <j0nr> popey: Is that the TiVo one?
[13:34] <les_h> ..... of course, now that i'm looking for the problem, it's not happening.....
[13:34] <awilkins> I have more than enough content to push through my eyeballs with the internet and 3 freeview tuners in my MythTV box
[13:35] <popey> however there is a new Virgin Tivo box which is ever nicer
[13:35] <popey> j0nr: i might switch to the tivo box, not decided
[13:35] <j0nr> popey: ah, thats the carrot on the end of the stick in my face :)
[13:35] <j0nr> plus they are offering a second HD box (non-tivo) for another room
[13:35] <popey> I am on 30/3 broadband
[13:35]  * awilkins has a MythTV box which is probably bigger, noisier, less slick, but does have 1TB of storage and is totally uner my control
[13:35] <j0nr> popey: is that fibre-optic?
[13:36] <popey> its cable
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> but is it a fibre-optic cable? :P
[13:36] <j0nr> popey: so is there cable and fibre optioc available?
[13:36] <awilkins> It's a copper cable
[13:36] <awilkins> It's fibre to the local node
[13:36] <popey> I'm sure fibre is involved somewhere but it's a piece of cable to my house
[13:36] <siriusly> I dont watch enough tv to comment on packages but I do have the L for Large tier which is good enough for me....the problem I find with so many channels is that they are in an endless loop of repeats
[13:36] <popey> a copper cable
[13:36] <awilkins> It's a *fatter* copper cable than the phone line
[13:36] <popey> i place no significance in the type of cable
[13:37] <awilkins> So you can squeeze more bits down it
[13:37] <j0nr> so is all this fibre optic just a little bit of marketting bumpf?
[13:37] <popey> the question is how many bits can go down it at once
[13:37] <awilkins> j0nr, It's fibre optic to the local node
[13:37] <penguin42> j0nr: Yep
[13:37] <popey> and I've been told my area is getting 100Mb cable soon
[13:37] <j0nr> popey: that sounds good
[13:37]  * penguin42 complained to advertising standards a few years ago and they gave me the brush off
[13:37] <siriusly> doesn't the fibre optic only go as far as the street cabinet?
[13:37] <awilkins> Yeah, the 100MB is solely down to newer hardware for squeezing more out of copper cable
[13:37] <popey> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1608418806.png
[13:37] <popey> thats what I currently get
[13:38] <j0nr> i like SKY, the TV channels are good, I would have to pay on top of VM TV XL to get the Sky packages (Movies HD)
[13:38] <awilkins> oOh, bigger bundle
[13:38] <awilkins> I'm on the 10Mbit/s down, 1Mbit/s up
[13:38] <popey> i dont subscribe to movie channels
[13:38] <popey> I just pay on demand when I want a film
[13:38] <popey> and it starts instantly
[13:38] <j0nr> popey: yeah I saw they offer a lot...are you doing that via your virgin box?
[13:38] <popey> unlike my old sky box where I had to wait up to 30 mins on some random channel number
[13:38] <popey> yes
[13:39] <popey> V+ box does Iplayer, ITV and C4 catch up too
[13:39] <j0nr> popey: yeah thats another plus
[13:39] <AlanBell> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1611945327.png popey has got a bigger broadband than me :(
[13:39] <popey> you can go back and watch whole seasons of stuff with no adverts
[13:39] <popey> and yours really _is_ fibre!
[13:39] <siriusly> I am on 20 megs BB and 20megs is what I generally get...none of this "up to" business
[13:39] <CraigMason> chaps, a quick Q... one of our machines wont allow us to edit network connections
[13:41] <j0nr> hmm, my work is surprisingly slow... http://www.speedtest.net/result/1611947863.png
[13:41] <CraigMason> the adapter doesn't appear in /etc/network/interfaces either
[13:41] <siriusly> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1611948464.png
[13:41] <j0nr> popey: whole season from where? Sky Anytime is pretty crap I have found,
[13:41] <popey> what do you mean from where
[13:42] <j0nr> popey: is it a service VM are providing on the box?
[13:42] <popey> yes
[13:42] <j0nr> that's pretty cool
[13:42] <popey> j0nr: e.g. I watched 3 seasons of The Inbetweeners on 4OD on the Virgin box, no adverts
[13:42] <j0nr> popey: that IS good.
[13:42] <DJones> j0nr: Do you use the Sky Anytime+ service, how well does that work
[13:42] <j0nr> now I am very tempted...
[13:43] <j0nr> DJones: not very often really. everytime I have thought to look for something I have missed, it never seems to be on there
[13:43] <j0nr> DJones: but there is a lot of something on there
[13:43] <j0nr> movies are quite plentiful
[13:44] <j0nr> but you couldnt catch up on a whole series (I don't think)
[13:44] <j0nr> popey: do VM do the +1 channels?
[13:44] <popey> yes
[13:44] <popey> and HD
[13:44] <DJones> I'm debating whether to connect my sky box up to the router, its not as if it will cost anymore
[13:44] <j0nr> although that's not such a problem, we were told you can record 3 and watch a 4th
[13:44] <popey> dunno how many you can record
[13:44] <j0nr> DJones: cant remember if I had to pay extra for Anytime+
[13:44] <popey> if I was going for Vigrin now, I'd get Tivo
[13:45] <DJones> j0nr: Supposed to be free anyway
[13:45] <bigcalm> TiVo can record 3 watch 1
[13:45] <bigcalm> V+ can record 2 watch 1
[13:45] <j0nr> well they are offering me free installation, free tivo box, free second hd box for another room, plus BB (not sure on speed or bandwidth limit), plus the XL package
[13:46] <popey> sweet
[13:46] <j0nr> but tied into 18 month contract
[13:46] <popey> time flies ☺
[13:46] <bigcalm> How much?
[13:46] <bigcalm> It will
[13:46] <bigcalm> I expect you'll get 30mb bb
[13:46] <penguin42> j0nr: They sound desperate; have you tried asking them for gold bricks, and 'special services' ?
[13:46] <j0nr> penguin42: I guess they are targetting SKY customers. I get offers through the post almost weekly
[13:47] <j0nr> bigcalm: think thats about 77 / month
[13:47] <j0nr> plus telephone
[13:47] <penguin42> j0nr: They bug me about twice a year; I used to be an NTL customer ~10 years ago
[13:47] <awilkins> "I want a pizza button. Whenever I push it, a 12" sausage with onions  pizza should turn up within 90 seconds"
[13:47] <j0nr> popey: do you have a bandwidth limit?
[13:47] <bigcalm> popey: that's our package level then
[13:48] <popey> yup
[13:48] <popey> same as what I have
[13:48] <popey> but I dont have tivo
[13:48] <popey> because I got mine 18 months ago
[13:48]  * popey phones VM
[13:48] <awilkins> j0nr, What they do on the lower tiers, is there is a limit past which they will throttle your connection to 25% speed during peak hours
[13:48] <awilkins> j0nr, The highest tiers have no limits
[13:48] <bigcalm> popey: let me know if you can get TiVo for free ;)
[13:48] <awilkins> j0nr, It's not a limit, per se, it's a "calm down, calm down!!!"
[13:49] <j0nr> ok, I am very tempted
[13:49] <siriusly> bigcalm : http://shop.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management/traffic-management-policy.html
[13:49] <j0nr> awilkins: cool. As long as they don't cut you off or bill you per mb over
[13:49] <popey> no
[13:49] <popey> it just slows down a bit
[13:49] <bigcalm> siriusly: why are you telling me that url?
[13:49] <awilkins> j0nr, Like all providers I'm sure they reserve the right to cut you off, but never heard of it happening
[13:50] <popey> I've never had any snotty mails or anything
[13:50] <awilkins> j0nr, It does make me a bit careful about downloading between 1000 and 2100 but other than that it's not bad at all compared to a hard limit
[13:50] <bigcalm> Neither have I. Most connection issues happen during the day time. So it you're out of the house during the day, that won't be a problem for you
[13:51] <awilkins> You do think "Yay, new game... oh, if I download it now, it will pop my limit and take much longer"
[13:51] <Daviey> awilkins: I got cut off by my previous ISP, without notice :/
[13:51] <siriusly> bigcalm: sorry that should have been for j0nr
[13:51] <Daviey> (or warning)
[13:51]  * awilkins is not a big torrentor
[13:51]  * Daviey neither
[13:51] <popey> awilkins: i never think that
[13:52] <awilkins> popey, You have the 30Mbit package
[13:52] <awilkins> The limits are rather more generous
[13:52] <awilkins> For me it's 1500MB between 1000 and 1500 and 750MB between 1600 and 2100
[13:52] <bigcalm> 30mb is the standard
[13:52] <bigcalm> I thought
[13:52] <davmor2> Daviey: did you demand an explanation and then sue them for being in breach of their agreement
[13:53] <awilkins> I've been on it for a long time ; I suppose they don't offer my package anymore... I should ring up and get changed
[13:54] <siriusly> VM have six BB tiers ranging from S 2Mb to XXL 50Mb
[13:54] <popey> awilkins: i download a lot, i backup remote servers
[13:54] <popey> and grab ISOs etc
[13:54] <Daviey> davmor2: yeah, i'll get right on that.
[13:55] <dogmatic69> omg
[13:55] <siriusly> I believe 100MB will become available soon
[13:55] <awilkins> popey, That 10GB allocation would seem to be enough
[13:55] <dogmatic69> copy something to clipboard and middle click the + tab button on chrome
[13:55] <dogmatic69> instant search
[13:55] <davmor2> Daviey: this is why they get away with it
[14:00] <Daviey> davmor2: I did plan to, but when it came to it - i really couldn't be bothered. :)
[14:00] <davmor2> Daviey: haha
[14:00] <AlanBell> nice tip dogmatic69
[14:01] <dogmatic69> figured it out completely by accident
[14:02] <dogmatic69> also if you have many chrome windows open, middle click the bar at the top (not sure what its called)  and it switches windows
[14:02] <dogmatic69> 'system title bar' but chromes minimal version one
[14:02] <dogmatic69> could be ubuntu doing that though
[14:11] <gordonjcp> is there a way to stop the annoying message popups in the top right?
[14:12] <popey> gordonjcp: sudo apt-get remove notify-osd
[14:12] <gordonjcp> I don't really see what the thinking is behind them anyway
[14:12] <gordonjcp> popey: righto
[14:12] <popey> when I am listening to music I get a popup as the track changes so I know what it is, i like that
[14:12] <popey> i hate it when tweets appear, I am never fast enough to read them ☹
[14:13] <czajkowski> MooDoo: you ok ?
[14:13] <gordonjcp> yeah, but you can't click on them to make the thing that just did something appear
[14:13] <gordonjcp> which would make sense
[14:13] <gordonjcp> and when empathy pops up a message you can't click on them to reply
[14:13] <davmor2> MooDoo: how am ya me olwd mucka
[14:13] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: it would, but it they are totally designed not to do that
[14:13] <gordonjcp> you just have to wait for ten seconds until they go away so you've got control back, and then find the thing in the mac doc
[14:13] <gordonjcp> *dock
[14:14] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: yeah
[14:14] <AlanBell> you shouldn't have to wait for them to go though, they should fade if you mouse over and you can click stuff under them
[14:16] <gord> i actually hate the music track changes but love tweets in notify form :P
[14:16] <j0nr> popey: when you pay for a film on demand, can you keep it on your box as long as you want?
[14:17] <popey> no
[14:17] <popey> you're renting it for 48 hours or something
[14:17] <popey> I watched Tron Legacy 3 times when I rented it :D
[14:18] <j0nr> ah loved that film, got it on Blu-Ray
[14:18] <gord> silly movie, didn't make sense :P
[14:18] <gord> fun to look at though
[14:20] <davmor2> gord: It's a film it's not meant to make sense :P
[14:20] <awilkins> My favourite scene is the bit where Jeff saves the day at the comms tower
[14:21] <awilkins> I love self-sacrifice, honour, and duty. Makes me choke up.
[14:21] <bigcalm> I've yet to watch the film
[14:21] <bigcalm> We have it on blu-ray, must find time
[14:21] <awilkins> My favourite bit of Armageddon is where Bruce pushes the button
[14:21] <bigcalm> I fell asleep in Armageddon - in the cinema :(
[14:22] <awilkins> Women think men are unromantic - we just have a different kind of romance that doesn't involve flowers
[14:28] <czajkowski> AlanBell: http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/UK-government-lays-out-cyber-security-plans-1385358.html
[14:28] <AlanBell> good stuff czajkowski, but not my area
[14:29] <czajkowski> aye not mine either but nice to see their taking the finger out
[14:29]  * davmor2 gave up watching films at the cinema I like to be able to hear the following day oh and the head ache really sucks
[14:29] <AlanBell> indeed
[14:29] <czajkowski> there was no cinema in aldershot :(
[14:30] <czajkowski> in dublin I used to have a cinama card, 20 euros a month and unlimated usage, myself and the sister would head there over the weeend for 2-3 films
[14:30] <czajkowski> most weekends
[14:31] <danfish> czajkowski: by the time that cyber-security stuff gets implemented it will be watered down to involve a part-time intern and a 2005 copy of norton antivirus ;)
[14:31] <danfish> but still cost gazillions
[14:32] <danfish> how many millions to a gazillion I wonder?
[14:32] <AlanBell> a squillion I think
[14:33] <danfish> :)
[14:33] <RJAHILL> Hi All. I'm supporting ~450 lucid machines in a few schools and have just found a .desktop file and icon for the delightfully named 'pornview' . I'm going to get rid of it before the students become aware of an app with that name. Is there anything else I should be looking for?
[14:33] <bigcalm> Pornview strikes again!
[14:34] <bigcalm> It's actually a very good image viewer
[14:34] <MartijnVdS> RJAHILL: don't install the package?
[14:34] <AlanBell> ugh /o\ that app
[14:34] <dogmatic69> apt-get remove pornview?
[14:34] <awilkins> Hah, yes, it just seems like it's a useful media brower... shame about the name
[14:34] <awilkins> THe developer probably has no wife
[14:34] <RJAHILL> it's not installed - trying to run it suggests I install it, but somehow the  desktop shortcut and png icon file are there
[14:35] <dogmatic69> maybe it was installed and then removed
[14:35] <dogmatic69> some left overs
[14:35] <awilkins> You could always do a `locate` on the machine concerned to look for any other remnants
[14:35] <RJAHILL> I created the image from a default NBR installer, so I expect it's in the NBR image
[14:35] <RJAHILL> a locate only shows the .desktop and the icon
[14:36] <awilkins> NBR?
[14:36] <RJAHILL> NetBook Remix
[14:38] <RJAHILL> So I'm going to have a look through to see if I can spot anything else dodgy, but that's a lot of files to wade through and wondered if anybody else had already done this
[14:38] <awilkins> I'm surprised that those files are present...
[14:38] <AlanBell> it can pop up in the applications lens in that daft "stuff you don't want" section down the bottom
[14:38] <dogmatic69> sudo find / -name pornview
[14:39] <AlanBell> RJAHILL: one thing that sometimes happens in schools is the URLs to .deb files for the perfectly innocent libraries liboobs and libsexy get blocked
[14:41] <RJAHILL> Thanks for the tip Alan. We've got our own repo which is a proxy exception. I've just fond that the same pornview files appear on my 11.10 machine
[14:42] <james_w> it's there so that it can be offered for install in software-center
[14:42] <AlanBell> "its not mine baby, totally not my bag" ~Austin Powers
[14:42] <bigcalm> Hehe
[14:42] <RJAHILL> ah, ok.Do you know if I am I likely to break anything by removing it?
[14:43] <james_w> it won't
[14:43] <AlanBell> the only thing you could break is pornview. Go for it.
[14:43] <james_w> but it will come back
[14:43] <dogmatic69> lol
[14:43] <RJAHILL> the porn that wouldn't die
[14:43] <james_w> you'll have to remove app-install-data
[14:44] <james_w> then software-center won't work, but you probably don't care about that?
[14:44] <Laney> is the problem with the word 'porn'?
[14:44] <RJAHILL> We haven't given the kids the admin password, so no I don't mind the software centre not working
[14:45] <james_w> in fact it will remove software-center too
[14:45] <dogmatic69> Laney: guess he does not want kids going home and telling the parents about a great new image viewer they found
[14:45] <RJAHILL> @Laney: Kind off. It's all about keeping them on topic and not giggling about porn. Or gimp
[14:45] <AlanBell> Laney: it is the daily mail headlines about the school that gives porn apps to kids
[14:45] <czajkowski> RJAHILL: I can see how porn would start giggling, but gimp ?
[14:46] <RJAHILL> It's mostly the teachers that laugh at gimp (see Pulp Fiction for more details)
[14:47] <czajkowski> RJAHILL: if teachers start then sure students will to.
[14:49] <awilkins> I'm chuffed that you've got 450 Ubuntu machines in a school
[14:52] <cliftonts> same, that sounds like real progress
[14:52] <Laney> I really doubt that worring about a file named pornview.desktop buried deep inside the filesystem is a problem, but if it is then I'd just remove s-c and therefore app-install-data indeed.
[14:53] <RJAHILL> thanks. It's a scheme the schools are doing to get the computers to pupils ration down to 1:1
[14:53] <AlanBell> RJAHILL: where is that?
[14:54] <RJAHILL> so they're not just staying in school, they go home with them too
[14:55] <RJAHILL> I work for the commercial supplier to the LEA, so we're going to bring it to their attention and get a steer off them
[14:56] <AlanBell> which LEA?
[14:57] <RJAHILL> I'm going to keep quiet on that one, for the moment as I haven't asked them if they mind me telling people - It's in the west midlands
[14:57] <AlanBell> ok, region is fine, I was wondering if it was a london one or not
[14:57] <AlanBell> west Midlands isn't one I know about, so that is cool
[14:58] <aeroplanez> I got my new watch today finally
[14:58] <cliftonts> I'm from the west midlands, got dragged down to london by my parents years ago
[14:58] <aeroplanez> been thinking about buying it for few months now and last week I decided to spoil myself for xmas
[14:58] <cliftonts> I keep seeing good things up there
[14:58] <aeroplanez> check it out
[14:58] <aeroplanez> http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/2566/asdasdwd.jpg
[14:58] <aeroplanez> http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2980/werwerc.jpg
[14:59] <oimon> you can't fool me with goatse images
[14:59] <gord> apparently HMV uses ubuntu :) http://i.imgur.com/3OXcj.jpg
[14:59] <MartijnVdS> nah Nintendo does
[14:59] <cliftonts> cool
[14:59] <RJAHILL> The LEA here is really pro-IT and they like to see what else exists other than microsoft. The kids don't care as long as the apps/web sites they want to use work
[15:00] <AlanBell> gord: that will be the new BSOD spotting meme
[15:00] <AlanBell> RJAHILL: should the LoCo team put on events for the staff in your area? training and such?
[15:00] <cliftonts> that's the point though RJAHILL, the kids aren't set in their ways like the general public
[15:01] <RJAHILL> We've got some ex-teachers who work here who are going to put some training on for the staff, but I need to get them up to speed on things first
[15:02] <RJAHILL> And then we're going to try to get some sort of community set up on the LEAs web portal for staff/students/parents with ubuntu machines
[15:03] <AlanBell> ok, cool
[15:03] <AlanBell> RJAHILL: want any CDs?
[15:04] <RJAHILL> What's on them?
[15:04] <AlanBell> official Ubuntu 11.10 CDs
[15:04] <czajkowski> could be nice to give to students
[15:04] <cliftonts> you love dishing out those CDs don't you Alan?
[15:04] <AlanBell> I hold the UK team stock of them
[15:04] <AlanBell> I do!
[15:04] <RJAHILL> No thanks, we're on Lucid at the moment
[15:04] <Seeker`> he's probably just trying to get some more space back in his house :P
[15:05] <cliftonts> I will be taking you up on your offer soon
[15:05] <AlanBell> want to get them all out there before precise comes out
[15:05] <cliftonts> good plan
[15:05] <czajkowski> cliftonts: some teams dont get them
[15:05] <czajkowski> it's nice to offer them rather than not get any :)
[15:05] <czajkowski> AlanBell: does a really good job of getting them to folks
[15:05] <DJones> AlanBell: Are they government expenditure, if you've not used them all by the end of financial year/release date, you don't get as many next time round
[15:05] <cliftonts> well I'm all ready to launch on Sunday, got the website stocked and the computer fair booked
[15:06] <cliftonts> so wish me luck"
[15:06] <AlanBell> good luck cliftonts  :)
[15:06] <cliftonts> if things go well I'll have no CDs left at the end of it
[15:06] <RJAHILL> AlanBell: the machines in the main are netbooks with 10" screens. The lucid netbook remix is perfect for them. I don't want to think about what happens when Lucid is out of support
[15:07] <ali1234> what computer fair you going to?
[15:07] <ali1234> (s)
[15:07] <czajkowski> RJAHILL: you mean in april ;)
[15:07] <cliftonts> Tolworth
[15:07] <oimon> lucid is LTS..lasts longer than 12.04
[15:07] <cliftonts> but I'll also be at Bristol and Bracknell as well as others
[15:07] <RJAHILL> czajkowski:2013!
[15:07] <czajkowski> ah was saying next LTS
[15:07] <czajkowski> yeha you've support for another year after that
[15:08] <oimon> i thought they announcned extended support for LTS to 5yr?
[15:08] <RJAHILL> That's for pangolin I think
[15:08] <ali1234> i thought it was already 5 year?
[15:08] <cliftonts> they did
[15:08] <cliftonts> server support was 5 yr, desktop 3
[15:10] <AlanBell> in theory
[15:10] <cliftonts> theory?
[15:12] <AlanBell> the repository isnt split
[15:12] <AlanBell> no clear definition of what is a server package
[15:13] <cliftonts> well that was the announcement as I understand it. I haven't looked into the rocket science behind it
[15:13] <AlanBell> yes the announcement was 5 years officially for the desktop
[15:14] <cliftonts> Urgh! I've just found Windows 98 on one of my disks. I feel so dirty!
[15:14] <Seeker`> why?
[15:14] <cliftonts> I haven't used windows by choice for about 5 years
[15:15] <cliftonts> but I'm going through all the kit I've got lying around to prepare it for the computer fair, wiping disks etc
[15:15] <cliftonts> I thought the only windows install I had was on this machine, only to be used when I DJ
[15:16] <ali1234> AlanBell: there is a clear definition of how long a package is supported, from that you can infer what the package is...
[15:16] <cliftonts> There we go, format to EXT4. That's better
[15:16] <Daviey> AlanBell: there is some intentional fuzziness.
[15:16] <AlanBell> ali1234: where?
[15:17] <ali1234> one of the fields on the package info
[15:17] <AlanBell> interesting
[15:17] <Daviey> AlanBell: http://pb.daviey.com/cygI/ is a reasonable reference for main stuff, but some crucial stuff which people use will also recieve some love.
[15:18] <AlanBell> no openoffice-headless then :)
[15:18] <cliftonts> I never realised how many knackered hard drives I've been hoarding until today
[15:19] <gord> i have a closet of no return, where i put computer equipment that i might have a use for some day, but never do
[15:19] <Daviey> AlanBell: don't quote the list, it's only an indication :)
[15:19] <cliftonts> gord, in that case I have a living room, spare bedroom loft and hallway of no return!
[15:20] <ali1234> AlanBell: apt-cache show <package> | grep Supported
[15:20] <cliftonts> I started clearing out then ran out of time and it's all sat there half way out of the house for ages
[15:21] <AlanBell> thanks ali1234
[15:22] <Daviey> ali1234: That isn't exactly safe TBH, at current.
[15:22] <ali1234> why?
[15:23] <cliftonts> Anyone here know much about hard disk health?
[15:23] <Daviey> ali1234: That is an indicator, but for some things, will exceed that.
[15:24] <Daviey> Universe packages also do not include the Supported field, but some are kinda supported.
[15:24] <Darael> !anyone | cliftonts
[15:24] <lubotu3`> cliftonts: A high percentage of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..." Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.
[15:24] <ali1234> kinda?
[15:24] <ali1234> should set the field to "kinda" then
[15:24] <Seeker`> cliftonts: meh, no reason to feel 'dirty', considering that linux wasn' particularly user friendly in 2004, I don't know what the state of *nix was in 1998
[15:25] <cliftonts> if a hard disk sounds like it has a bunch of marbles rolling around inside it when it accesses and everything stalls while this is happening yet SMART and fsck insist it's healthy why can't they detect a problem?
[15:25] <ali1234> because there isn't one
[15:25] <ali1234> some hard drives are just loud, go figure...
[15:25] <cliftonts> Seeker, we've finally reached a point where I have no need for legacy windows installs
[15:25] <Darael> The "everything stalls" bit rather conflicts with that analysis, ali1234.
[15:25] <ali1234> not really
[15:26] <ali1234> ubuntu stalls on any hard drive activity
[15:26] <ali1234> this bug is a couple of years old
[15:26] <Seeker`> cliftonts: :) glad to hear it :P Still no need to feel dirty for having old windows isntalls lying around
[15:26] <cliftonts> ali1234, any drive which goes klunk, klunk, klunk for 5 minutes before it will do anything must surely be dying
[15:26] <ali1234> you're probably only noticing the connection because the drive is so loud
[15:26] <Seeker`> if you think the drive is dying, back it up and replace it
[15:26] <ali1234> that sounds like thermal recalibration
[15:27] <cliftonts> no ali, I'm noticing the connection because the drive isn't reading data for considerable time after the request
[15:27] <cliftonts> there's no data on it, but there isn't any way to save the drive is there?
[15:27] <oimon> SMART is not a guarantee of health
[15:27] <ali1234> i've seen ubuntu stall for over 5 minutes due to hard drive activity
[15:28] <oimon> although conversely if there is a smart error, then that is useful sign that it will fail soon
[15:28] <cliftonts> I know oimon it's just a little annoying that my ears are the only thing that can detect the fault
[15:28] <ali1234> look in the smart data at the number of themal recalibrations
[15:29] <cliftonts> calibration retry count? or thermal asperity rate?
[15:29] <oimon> usually dmesg has some messages though
[15:30] <cliftonts> oimon I won't have a lot of data as I'm running off a live disc
[15:30] <Darael> See what that Win98 install makes of it?  That would at least reveal which it was:  This stalling-on-any-hard-drive-access thing ali1234 mentioned, or a dying drive.
[15:30] <ali1234> calibration retry count
[15:30] <cliftonts> I know the drive is faulty, the noise is unmistakable
[15:30] <ali1234> basically if it's more than 0, drive is dying
[15:31] <cliftonts> Normalised: 250 - Worst: 250 - Threshold: 223 - Value 8589934650 - Good
[15:31] <ali1234> wat
[15:32] <ali1234> how can value be over 8 billion?
[15:33] <ali1234> every time it goes KLICK-KLUNK that's a thermal recalibration event
[15:33] <cliftonts> don't ask me, more to the point if aything more than 0 is bad why is smart happy with that figure
[15:33] <ali1234> every time it does it more than once in a row, that counter should increment by one
[15:33] <cliftonts> well this drive has obviously been dying for a while then
[15:33] <aeroplanez> http://i.imgur.com/npjWz.jpg
[15:33] <aeroplanez> thatll work
[15:33] <oimon> does it make a click click doinnnng noise like a spring against a pinball?
[15:34] <cliftonts> no, just the repeted click
[15:34] <ali1234> yeah about 200 years if that counter is accurate
[15:34] <ali1234> how old is the drive?
[15:34] <oimon> my anti -drop drive used to click occasionally , which was ok. but click click click is bad
[15:34] <cliftonts> you know it feels like that long ago win98 was released
[15:35] <ali1234> over ten years though?
[15:35] <ali1234> it probably has a poor or non-existant smart implementation then
[15:35] <oimon> and is due to die anyway
[15:35] <cliftonts> it's a 4.3 gb so not really worth anything. I'm just curious as I'd expected linux to be a bit more accurate in telling me which drives to bin
[15:36] <ali1234> smart is implemented in hard drive firmware
[15:36] <ali1234> it's just a bunch of counters
[15:36] <oimon> ok we know jimmy wales is the most annoying thing ever, but the wordpress"browser out of date" is pretty bad too
[15:37] <ali1234> has a nyone got a link to the wikipedia screenshot with jimbo's head on an armadillo or something?
[15:38] <cliftonts> the drive does still seem to be working somehow though
[15:38] <ali1234> it's quite possible that the little hole to equalise air pressure is blocked up
[15:39] <cliftonts> that's a thought
[15:39] <oimon> run badblocks?
[15:39] <ali1234> or maybe the motor/bearings are just wearing out
[15:39] <Seeker`> just throw the drive out? :P
[15:39] <oimon> agree. must be ridiculously slow
[15:40] <cliftonts> oh it's a maxtor, that explains it
[15:40] <ali1234> http://www.techerator.com/wp-content/uploads/jimmy-wales-everywhere.png
[15:40] <ali1234> found it
[15:40] <ali1234> it was a wombat
[15:40] <Seeker`> a 4.3gb drive isn't useful, and you've probably spent more time trying to work out whether it is dead or not than you ever will gain from using it :P
[15:40] <oimon> ali1234: nice
[15:41] <cliftonts> guys I like to understand things, don't care about the driv but I've often wondered if there's a way to save a dying drive just like you could in the dark ages with norton utilities
[15:41] <ali1234> no
[15:41] <oimon> euthanasia
[15:41] <ali1234> (and there never was)
[15:41] <ali1234> in the bad old days the filesystem would get corrupted for no reason
[15:42] <cliftonts> I din't ever see drives dying like this until the 850mb ones. I bet my old 40mb is still working out thre somewhere
[15:42] <shauno> the goal with a dying drive is to be thankful you've got enough warning to pull data off it.  don't bother trying to save it - it won't return the favor.  it'll just die another day, and take everything it contains with it
[15:42] <ali1234> well a 40mb drive is pretty much just 10 floppy disks in a metal case
[15:42] <Seeker`> cliftonts: bet it isn't :P
[15:43] <ali1234> i've got a 2GB drive that still works
[15:43] <cliftonts> speaking of which shauno I need to finish abandoning ship on my dying 1tb (it took a MAJOR tumble) now I've got a new drive
[15:43] <ali1234> it sounds like a powerdrill when it spins up though
[15:43]  * daubers has seen a lot of the new 3TB drives failing recently :(
[15:43] <Darael> Frankly, AHS.
[15:43] <cliftonts> that's worth knowing
[15:43] <oimon> watrer damage
[15:43]  * Seeker` has stopped buying drives for now due to price
[15:43] <cliftonts> do you think the data density is getting too high?
[15:43] <daubers> Seeker`: Wish I could do that :(
[15:44]  * daubers has put an order in for £150k worth of drives today
[15:44] <Seeker`> daubers: got 6TB of space or so in my mythtv box. That'll keep me gonig for now
[15:44] <Seeker`> daubers: ah, you had to buy ~10TB of disks? :P
[15:44] <daubers> cliftonts: Nah, they're just too new. That and the factories in thailand being underwater has meant that quality has slipped a bit recently
[15:45] <daubers> Seeker`: You joke, I ordered ~10TB of SSD's a couple of weeks ago and that wasn't far off that price
[15:45] <Seeker`> if you're buying £150k of drives, they are all probably coming off the production line in sequence, so you'll get all of the bad ones
[15:45] <daubers> yup
[15:46] <Seeker`> the odds of a consumor / someone not buying insane quantities of them getting a terminal one is quite low
[15:46] <daubers> Happens now and again, we see it more or newer drives than older generation ones
[15:46] <cliftonts> erm..I'm looking at a 6tb drive now - soft read error rate - 158914112536
[15:46] <cliftonts> that's a big number!
[15:46] <Seeker`> 6tb?
[15:46] <cliftonts> oops, gb
[15:46] <Seeker`> where'd you get a 6tb drive from?
[15:46] <Seeker`> :P
[15:46] <daubers> cliftonts: if these are old drives that haven't spun up in a while, the grease will probably have seized up so it won't spin up properly
[15:47] <Seeker`> daubers: I bought 8TB storage, 4x2tb disks, each disk was < £100 I think. Looked the other day, ~£200/disk now
[15:47] <cliftonts> you know I think I'm going to have  big box in the computer fair labelled 'knackered crap - no offer refused'
[15:47] <daubers> Seeker`: Yeah :( It's rubbish
[15:48] <daubers> Seeker`: We were paying ~£90 a pop of enterprise 2TB disks last month, now they're about £150 a pop
[15:48] <Seeker`> ouch
[15:48] <cliftonts> wow! I found a compressed doublespace disk. Who remembers that?
[15:48]  * daubers was glad he stocked up just before the price rises hit
[15:48] <Seeker`> like I said, I've got 6TB of space left on my mmythtv box. Will take me a while to rip enough of my dvds to fill that lot
[15:48] <Seeker`> ~1000 disks.
[15:48] <daubers> heh :)
[15:49] <cliftonts> these will all end up in the bin but I need to make sure I haven't stored anything on them first
[15:49] <Seeker`> not sure I have that many :P
[15:50] <Darael> Time to jury-rig a setup that takes a disk off a stack, stick it in the drive, rips it, and sticks it on another stack, clearly, Seeker`.
[15:50] <ali1234> that reminds me i still need to write that software to flash usb drives
[15:50] <Seeker`> Darael: haven't found any dvd rippers I really like on linux that work properly, so ripping on windows and transferring to my backend
[15:51] <Seeker`> Darael: transfer speed is more of a bottleneck atm
[15:51] <Darael> Ah.  Yes, I can imagine.
[15:52] <Seeker`> Need to get a 30m cat 5, then I can transfer stuff over my gigabit network
[15:56] <cliftonts> Right, I need to go and collect some kit I'm being given so I'll catch you guys later
[16:18] <RJAHILL> Thanks for the help earlier, home time now!
[17:12] <czajkowski> http://www.apps-world.net/europe/workshops/tv-apps-world  could be interesting if folks are around
[17:25] <danfish> me thinks it is now officially BEER O'CLOCK :D
[17:26] <brobostigon> :)
[17:26]  * brobostigon awaits loads of pub foursquare checkins.
[17:26] <danfish> you can all go home/pub/both if you live in a pub. I insist.
[17:26] <brobostigon> :)
[17:36] <cliftonts> AlanBell do you live in this room? Every time I come in here you're online
[17:36] <AlanBell> yes
[17:36] <cliftonts> it's nice, I like what you've done with the decor lol
[17:36] <AlanBell> actually I have irssi and screen so a constant connection running on a server, I connect to that
[17:37] <AlanBell> but yeah, I am kind of here a lot :)
[17:39] <cliftonts> well that kit I went to pick up was a weird and varied assortment.
[18:10] <czajkowski> cliftonts: a lot of folks in here run screens to they never actually detach
[18:10] <czajkowski> but may not be here
[18:10] <czajkowski> idle times help if you're looking for someone
[18:27] <cliftonts> understood
[18:35] <penguin42> is 'keykoard' a valid word in some language?
[18:37] <KrimZon> http://translate.google.com/#auto|en|keykoard <- not in the vocabulary that google knows of any language it knows
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: it sounds like what we'd call a lanyard
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: (yes "lanyard" translates to "keycord" in DUtch)
[18:37] <penguin42> hmm, so I have a really cheap Keyboard  that identifies itself as Keykoard, and googling finds lots of people talking about USB keykoards
[18:37] <KrimZon> google suggests turkish
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> nah
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> it sounds like a cheap chinese knock-off
[18:38] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh very
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> then it's probably just a mis-coptied bit of firmware :)
[18:38] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: From the logs I think it's got a personality problem and also thinks it might be a mouse
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> yes
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> bad firmware :)
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: can you pastebin lsusb -vv
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: (as root)
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: and xinput list --long
[18:42] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/749559/
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: it reports as a bus-powered keyboard (HID device).. what's the problem exactly? :)
[18:42] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: iProduct                2 USB Keykoard
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: yes that's just an arbitrary string provided by the manufacturer
[18:43] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Indeed, a bit odd however
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: Cheap Chinese knockoffs often have small quirks like this
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> my brother once got an 8 g_bit_ as an 8 g_byte_ USB memory stick ;)
[18:44] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Nod - I was more surprised by the number of hits I got when googling for keykoard
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> except the firmware thought it was 8 g_byte_ and trying to access anything beyond 8 gbit broke it
[18:50] <MartijnVdS> Laney: I've filed my bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/896376
[18:50] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 896376 in banshee (Ubuntu) "Galaxy Nexus (MTP, phone) doesn't show up in Banshee" [Undecided,New]
[18:57] <czajkowski> AlanBell: popey http://orgxmas.eventbrite.co.uk/
[19:46] <alexThunderr> hi, any steam user from uk here?
[22:32] <Laney> hello hash ubuntu uk
[22:32] <Laney> MartijnVdS: ye beauty, as you reproed it on the daily you can just go ahead and file it on bugzilla if you are up for that
[22:35] <funkyHat> Hello
[22:37] <jutnux> funkyHat: Hi
[23:21] <AlanBell> I think I have worn out my mouse wheel
[23:21] <AlanBell> on the cheapest mouse in the world evar
[23:21] <AlanBell> what mouse should I get?
[23:22] <funkyHat> MS mice are generally nice
[23:22] <AlanBell> try again :)
[23:22] <funkyHat> ⢁D
[23:24] <jacobw> logitech with back/forward buttons and four way scroll wheel
[23:24] <funkyHat> back/forward buttons are soo good
[23:25] <AlanBell> how about a magic touchpad? is that a mouse replacement?
[23:25] <ali1234> buy an intellimouse optical 1.1
[23:25] <ali1234> it's the best mouse
[23:26] <ali1234> !best
[23:26] <lubotu3`> Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.
[23:26] <ali1234> ^ i don't care, it's the best
[23:26] <funkyHat> Nice preemption ;)
[23:39] <AlanBell> that factoid is the reason I didn't say "what is the best mouse?"
[23:40] <mgdm> AlanBell: I know a lot of folk like the magic touchpad, I've not tried one myself but I could see myself liking it
[23:40] <AlanBell> not sure I am after the "best" mouse anyhow
[23:40] <ali1234> why would you not want to buy the best mouse
[23:41] <AlanBell> I want a pointing device that is good
[23:41] <AlanBell> I might want the most interesting good pointing device
[23:41] <ali1234> the best is good
[23:41] <mgdm> Personally I fancy one of the Thinkpad keyboards with the trackpoint in the centre
[23:41] <buzz_> my mouse was <£0
[23:41] <buzz_> <£10 even
[23:41] <jacobw> ha, factoid proliteration is endangering question askers
[23:42] <AlanBell> buzz_: the one with the faily wheel was I think free with a £3 keyboard
[23:42] <jacobw> trackpoints are awesome
[23:42] <jacobw> a system76 with a trackpoint would be really awesome
[23:42] <buzz_> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trust-16536-Click-Wireless-Optical/dp/B0028YUK7E
[23:42] <buzz_> my mouse
[23:42] <ali1234> wireless :|
[23:43] <AlanBell> yours has a brand name and everything buzz_
[23:43] <buzz_> heh
[23:43] <ali1234> brb, batteries are running out in my keyboaaaoaoaoaooooaoaooaoaoaoaooaoao
[23:43] <buzz_> i have another trust mouse (wired) that was £5 i think also bought from my loacl wilkinson
[23:44] <AlanBell> mine has "3d Optical Mouse" and "Made in China" on it
[23:44] <AlanBell> and it isn't wireless
[23:44] <ali1234> is it blue with likea trackball nstead of a wheel?
[23:44] <buzz_> i wouldnt spend £70 etc on a mouse. i wear them out. i had a expensive mouse before and it lasted just as long as the cheap ones
[23:44] <penguin42> Gah! Scan print the 1st four, and 4 from the other end card numbers on their paperwork - that's nuts!
[23:44] <AlanBell> ali1234: black case, blue illuminated ruberised wheel
[23:44] <jacobw> 3d mouse makes no sense
[23:45] <buzz_> everything was better in 2d
[23:45] <ali1234> my intellimouse is over 10 years old and still going strong
[23:45] <AlanBell> maybe I need a 4d mouse now
[23:45] <buzz_> 10 years? it must look like a mess
[23:45] <ali1234> if it breaks i'll buy another one exactly the same
[23:45] <jacobw> you need a 10d string theory ready mouse :p
[23:46] <buzz_> i bet your mouse smells of finger cheese
[23:46] <ali1234> probably
[23:46] <ali1234> it has smooth patches worn into the buttons
[23:49] <buzz_> i have one of these http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/5/0/8/6/2/webimg/451786345_tp.jpg
[23:49] <buzz_> :)
[23:49] <buzz_> still in the box..
[23:50] <buzz_> and one of these - http://hitchcomcomputers.com/cart/images/commodore%20music%20maker.jpg ;-)
[23:50] <ali1234> is that the plastic keyboard that goes over the keyboard?
[23:50] <buzz_> yeh
[23:50] <ali1234> i used to have one of those
[23:51] <ali1234> and the plotter
[23:52] <buzz_> i think ive got the plotter in the loftg
[23:52] <buzz_> -g
[23:53] <ali1234> i had the light rifle too
[23:53] <ali1234> got rid of it all when the c64 died
[23:54] <buzz_> if my c64 dies, ill get another :)