[16:31] <MrChrisDruif> Afternoon
[16:32] <MrChrisDruif> How of it going here?
[16:33] <MrChrisDruif> Of =	is
[16:35] <MrChrisDruif> I've been working on a more proper wiki page for the team. I'll continue to work on it when I'm on my computer
[16:35] <MrChrisDruif> ...tonight
[16:36] <MrChrisDruif> God, this is awful...typing on my smartphone
[16:36] <MrChrisDruif> I'll be back tonight, ttyl
[18:51]  * MrChrisDruif is working on our wiki area
[19:20] <MrChrisDruif> popey; can you remember where they announced working on Ubuntu TV?
[19:20] <AlanBell> MrChrisDruif: where is the wiki area?
[19:20] <MrChrisDruif> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV but I'm still working on them
[19:28] <MrChrisDruif> AlanBell; ^
[19:31] <AlanBell> yup
[19:41] <popey> MrChrisDruif: marks blog
[19:42] <popey> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/820
[19:42] <MrChrisDruif> And in the keynote, but I've got my Introduction part ready I think
[19:43]  * popey is going to http://www.apps-world.net/europe/workshops/tv-apps-world next week
[19:46] <MrChrisDruif> It was UK based if I'm not mistaken?
[19:49] <popey> y
[19:49] <popey> London
[19:50] <popey> just to be clear though MrChrisDruif we're not 'working on ubuntu tv'
[19:50] <popey> it was more mark saying he'd like to be in that space by then
[19:51] <MrChrisDruif> Hmmm, what DO we do then? =/
[19:52] <popey> well, we can start looking at stuff now, sure.
[19:53] <popey> I'm just saying that when mark made that aspirational blog post, that's what it was, an aspiration
[19:54] <MrChrisDruif> But doesn't that mean that we've got "permission" to start looking at what Unity/Ubuntu on the telly should look like?
[19:55] <MrChrisDruif> Or are we just a brainstorm group which can get nothing achieved?
[20:02] <popey> well the announcement about tv, phone and tablet on the design blog indicated that this was a way to spark discussion. http://design.canonical.com/2011/11/ubuntu-phone-tablet-and-tv-discussion-opened/
[20:02] <popey> and it's certainly done that
[20:02] <popey> the list has been quite active with ideas, which is exactly what was asked for ☺
[20:03] <popey> where it goes from here, I don't know, ask Will or Mika I guess.
[20:03] <popey> also interesting that the blog post shows not only TV, Phone and Tablet, but IVI too.
[20:04] <MrChrisDruif> IVI?
[20:04] <popey> http://www.canonical.com/content/canonical-joins-genivi-and-announces-ubuntu-version-vehicle-infotainment
[20:05] <MrChrisDruif> Btw, only TV has been active. I've not seen much activity in phone or tablet (I don't think ANY activity in tablet)
[20:06] <MrChrisDruif> Ah, right, what he also showed in his keynote speech. You could see a carputer
[20:06] <popey> exactly
[20:06] <popey> TV does seem to have captured some imagination
[20:06] <MrChrisDruif> Apparently the correct term is IVI
[20:06] <popey> tablets and phones less so I guess because the hardware is harder
[20:06] <popey> less accessible
[20:06] <popey> yeah, IVI because it's not just cars
[20:06] <popey> planes..
[20:07] <AlanBell> well tablets would be the desktop OS with multitouch doing useful stuff
[20:07] <MrChrisDruif> I would say that TV's are harder in terms of accessibility
[20:08] <MrChrisDruif> I was thinking the same. Ubuntu (Desktop) is pretty aimed towards touch input I think
[20:08] <MrChrisDruif> Maybe some more multi-touch features and it's set.
[20:08]  * MrChrisDruif thinks anyway
[20:09] <MrChrisDruif> I WAS thinking about sprucing up the phone mailing-list/IRC after the jump start of TV
[20:10] <popey> AlanBell: i am not so sure
[20:10] <popey> unity might be okay, but the apps under it aren't at all touch friendly
[20:10] <popey> small buttons, lots of menus etc
[20:11] <popey> look at thunderbird and imagine what that would be like on a touch interface for example
[20:11] <AlanBell> I guess
[20:11] <AlanBell> not really used a tablet
[20:12] <popey> next time you see me I'll thrust my ipad in your hands
[20:12] <popey> its a very different experience
[20:12] <AlanBell> ok
[20:12] <MrChrisDruif> Well, there could be 2 solutions for that. Either specific tablet/phone apps or make all apps touch friendly
[20:12] <popey> everything full screen for one
[20:12] <popey> many of the same issues that TV has tbh
[20:12] <AlanBell> well with the next generation of tablets having mega high resolution screens that might change things
[20:12] <MrChrisDruif> But with the second you get a lot of the desktop users in the wry
[20:13] <MrChrisDruif> There are PHONES coming with HD resolutions
[20:14] <popey> resolution isnt the issue. the try navigating the gimp menu on a touch device
[20:14] <popey> holding your finger, dragging, holding, dragging... oops, i lifted my finger, bam there goes the menu
[20:15] <AlanBell> I used to use a desktop os on a tablet computer with a stylus
[20:15] <MrChrisDruif> Well, the Gimp isn't exactly the right example with all it's window tbh
[20:16] <MrChrisDruif> But "modern" tablets can't use pens, they are capacitive
[20:16] <MrChrisDruif> + screens
[20:17] <AlanBell> popey: is the ipad just a big iphone?
[20:17] <AlanBell> in terms of user interface
[20:19] <MrChrisDruif> Pretty much so
[20:19] <MrChrisDruif> Same with Android I think
[20:19] <AlanBell> so tablets don't really get their own thing
[20:20] <MrChrisDruif> How do you mean?
[20:20] <AlanBell> they are either a scaled down desktop OS or a scaled up phone OS
[20:20] <AlanBell> there isn't a tablet sized OS
[20:20] <MrChrisDruif> I was just recalling what I've heard/seen. I think it is pretty much documented on the web
[20:21] <MrChrisDruif> I would love a desktop on a tablet which is touch friendly =)
[20:22] <MrChrisDruif> But when the tablet os is a scaled-down desktop, it's not touch friendly and the other way around it's not feature-full in my eyes. It's "missing" something
[20:25] <MrChrisDruif> But AlanBell, if you are interested in ubuntu-tablet, come join us @ #ubuntu-tablet
[20:35] <popey> AlanBell: well, android have tabletified their UI
[20:35] <popey> so android 3 and 4 are designed for tablets
[20:35] <popey> but 2.x was for phones
[20:35] <popey> 2.x and 3.x are arguably merged in 4.x
[20:35] <MrChrisDruif> They are
[20:36] <MrChrisDruif> It were two OS's until Android 4, which will be released on both phones and tablets
[20:37] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV is done for now
[20:41] <MrChrisDruif> Any comments popey or AlanBell ?
[20:42] <popey> will take a look later, just eating my tea :D
[20:42] <MrChrisDruif> Is it thát strong? =P
[21:17] <dmj726> Well, there has been some discussion about tablet UI but it was before the current list
[21:17] <dmj726> I think people jumped on the TV because it was the most "out there" and least well defined
[21:18] <imnichol> dmj726: That's why I personally got into tv, although it's also just because it seems to have the most active community
[21:19] <dmj726> I think there is a lot of good work done already wrt apps on phones
[21:20] <dmj726> Maemo/Meego did a pretty great job phonifying desktop apps
[21:20] <dmj726> a big thing was making the menus finger friendly
[21:20] <dmj726> That said, the best apps for said device put effort into simplifying the GUI
[21:27] <MrChrisDruif> dmj726; imnichol; did you see the new wiki page I created?
[21:28] <imnichol> Yeah
[21:28] <imnichol> IT looks good, although the link in the "meetings" section is broken
[21:28] <imnichol> I'd fix it myself but I'm not familiar with how these pages should be laid out
[21:34] <MrChrisDruif> imnichol; I'm working on that page atm ;-)
[21:35] <MrChrisDruif> Almost done (I hope, few more minutes)
[22:15] <MrChrisDruif> imnichol; /Meetings should work now
[22:15] <imnichol> Oh righteous
[22:17] <imnichol> That's awesome
[22:17] <MrChrisDruif> Yes, the link to the meeting notes is ALSO broken
[22:17] <MrChrisDruif> It is next up on the list
[22:41] <MrChrisDruif> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings/20111123 is also functioning now
[22:54] <MrChrisDruif> imnichol; ^ Should be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Meetings/20111123 and is now functioning
[23:25] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, it's on the mailing-list =)