[09:00] <MooDoo> morning all
[09:01] <popey> hey morning MooDoo
[09:02] <MooDoo> morning popey, how goes it?
[09:03] <AlanBell> morning
[09:03] <MooDoo> morning AlanBell how are you this fine day?
[09:03] <popey> not bad. quiet night in last night with a mate
[09:04] <MooDoo> good good
[09:04] <popey> now I need to go to the post office, they failed to deliver something yesterday
[09:04] <AlanBell> just having some breckie
[09:04] <popey> Im hoping its a tablet
[09:04] <MooDoo> :)
[09:04] <MooDoo> fingers crossed then
[09:04] <popey> but suspect its kids xmas toys from amazon
[09:22] <popey> Bah!
[09:22] <MooDoo> popey: toys?
[09:24]  * AlanBell will go out later to get a new mouse
[09:25] <MooDoo> AlanBell: did you decide which one to get in the end?
[09:25] <AlanBell> no, think I will go to PC World and see some
[09:25] <Linuxsapien> anyone here in Scotland at all ?
[09:28] <AlanBell> Linuxsapien: there are several
[09:29] <Linuxsapien> ill keep asking til one appears then :D
[09:29] <Linuxsapien> its hellish weather up here now, getting bored
[09:29] <MooDoo> Linuxsapien: does it need to be someone scottish you speak too?
[09:30] <Linuxsapien> inevitably im trying to get the scottish LUG more active, if that makes sense now ?
[09:30] <MooDoo> ah ok :)
[09:30] <AlanBell> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=643 I would get one of those if it had a wheel and wasn't flat
[09:31] <AlanBell> wheel in the right place that is
[09:31] <Linuxsapien> but no I guess for decent chat, anyone in UK is welcome to bother me :D
[09:31] <MooDoo> nah you're ok, ;) lol
[09:31] <Linuxsapien> AlanBell: then that defeats the purpose of the mouse.. but it does look good :D
[09:32] <Linuxsapien> pinky and wheel doesnt go
[09:32] <Linuxsapien> thumb would be better
[09:32] <AlanBell> I would be tempted to get one of those to stick in my bag, but not for my desk
[09:32] <AlanBell> probably works better for lefties
[09:33] <Linuxsapien> their prices are reasonable
[09:33] <MooDoo> right now i've cleared work job for the moment, reinstall ubuntu on my laptop :D
[09:33] <AlanBell> shipping can be steep
[09:33] <Linuxsapien> i laugh at that "cute" keyboard, with a windows key.. major fail
[09:34] <AlanBell> yes
[09:34] <AlanBell> I have a keyboard with a circle of friends logo
[09:34] <Linuxsapien> self-made ?
[09:34] <AlanBell> tried to contact the store to put them in touch with a great keyboard supplier
[09:35] <Linuxsapien> i hope you were not ignored, ive seen your advice before, good
[09:35] <AlanBell> http://www.keyboardco.com/ (sunglasses required for their website)
[09:35] <AlanBell> they do custom keyboards and made up some new super keys for me
[09:36] <Linuxsapien> ones that clip right into the keyboard?
[09:36] <AlanBell> http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_search.asp?SG=10021
[09:36] <AlanBell> I have that one
[09:37] <AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/keyboard.jpg
[09:37] <Linuxsapien> nice backdrop heh
[09:38] <Linuxsapien> next you could change the filco brand to canonical ;)
[09:39] <AlanBell> that is a moulded part of the case
[09:40] <AlanBell> quality keyboard
[09:40] <Linuxsapien> speak of the devil :) hey TheOpenSourcerer how are the peckers ;)
[09:40] <AlanBell> I think I want a wireless mouse with a recharging docking station
[09:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all
[09:42] <AlanBell> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/sony-vgpbms20-wireless-laser-mouse-orange-10983355-pdt.html
[09:42]  * TheOpenSourcerer is preparing for his speed awareness driving course.
[09:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: This is what I'm using now: http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/mice-pointers/mice/devices/5845
[09:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Very pleased with it.
[09:43] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: i did one of them a few months ago
[09:44] <Linuxsapien> TheOpenSourcerer: that must feel superb to use
[09:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> I used to have the MX1000 which lasted for about 6 years. And was excellent.
[09:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> This is as good if not better.
[09:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> I love the fact I can charge it and use it at the same time and the free wheel feature is awsome.
[09:44] <Linuxsapien> how does it charge?
[09:45] <AlanBell> what is the free wheel feature?
[09:45] <MooDoo> anyone going for IRCC?
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> The little button behind the wheel turns off the ratchet type thing and then you can spin the wheel and it runs for ages. useful on long spreadsheets or web pages...
[09:48] <Linuxsapien> MooDoo: what is IRCC ?
[09:49] <MooDoo> Linuxsapien: IRC Council
[09:49] <Linuxsapien> ill stick to being an addict :)
[09:49] <MooDoo> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc-council
[09:49] <MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil
[09:54] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:54] <Linuxsapien> ello
[09:55] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski good to see you
[09:55] <czajkowski> MooDoo: you ok ?
[09:55]  * Linuxsapien decides to break the silence and put on some Amiga MODs
[09:56]  * TheOpenSourcerer will be in Guildford this afternoon for 5hrs on a Speed Awareness driving course. In lieu of 3 points on my license...
[09:56] <Linuxsapien> TheOpenSourcerer: i have a mate that will be there also heh
[09:56] <Linuxsapien> for nattering on his mobile while on road
[09:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> Really? In guildford?
[09:56] <Linuxsapien> i reckon so
[09:56] <MooDoo> czajkowski: two poorly children, and i'm at work, but yes fine thanks :)
[09:58] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: lol
[10:05] <AlanBell> maybe I should just get the mouse TheOpenSourcerer suggested
[10:07] <MooDoo> pah sick of ubuntu being so easy to install :)
[10:08] <AlanBell> http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/mice-pointers/mice try ticking the linux compatible box!!
[10:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hah. It's working for me... I think I do not have the opportunity to change the laser resolution but hey ho - it's fine grained enough as it is. All the buttons work.
[10:09] <AlanBell> funnily enough the gaming mouse isn't compatible with windows
[10:17] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[10:17] <MooDoo> hullo :)
[10:17] <pr0ph3t> my mobile broadband doesn't respond, again :(
[10:18] <MooDoo> boooooooooo
[10:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hah - This is very funny: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/11/26/asda_geekend/
[10:18] <pr0ph3t> it's internal so I can't take it out
[10:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> "Britons should be eating five billion fewer calories a day than at present"  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15901351
[10:21] <MooDoo> that's the headline in the mail this morning, britons are the most over weight :S
[10:22] <pr0ph3t> I guess everytime I upgrade the kernel I need to do something although I'm not quite sure what. I "make" the files from the driver's folder then I remove the .ko drivers with modprobe -r, and then I "sudo make install" the lot
[10:22] <pr0ph3t> is there anything I'm missing? when should I insmod the driver in this process, after boot?
[10:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sometimes pr0ph3t you can use DKMS to automate the module update process... Might be worth looking at that if you haven't before
[10:24] <pr0ph3t> not sure what it is but the folder for the driver is called acpi-dkms, is that a good thing?
[10:25] <pr0ph3t> acpi4asus-dkms, so it should be a dynamic kernel module right?
[10:27] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: by my calculations that is about 416 elephants
[10:28] <pr0ph3t> AlanBell, the weight of 416 elephants or as much as 416 elephants eat?
[10:28] <AlanBell> the calorific value of eating 416 elephants
[10:28] <AlanBell> assuming similar to beef
[10:29] <pr0ph3t> eheh
[10:29] <UbuntuBhoy> african or indian elephants ?
[10:30] <AlanBell> average male African elephants
[10:30] <AlanBell> save teh elephants!!
[10:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> bye all. Must be off.
[10:30] <pr0ph3t> bye!
[10:30] <UbuntuBhoy> male, so your counting the knob meat as well then
[10:30] <mattt> TheOpenSourcerer: aww, and i was contemplating going out for a full english
[10:31] <AlanBell> UbuntuBhoy: lowering the tone there /o\
[10:31] <UbuntuBhoy> its my forte
[10:31] <pr0ph3t> can someone have a look at this http://dev.iksaif.net/projects/acpi4asus/wiki/Backport_module and tell me if the procedure is missing something, because it doesn't produce the desired effects for some reason
[10:31] <AlanBell> male elephants weigh about 15000 lbs, females are much smaller at around 8000
[10:34] <pr0ph3t> I upgraded the kernel and now I can't activate mobile broadband, I try from the sysbar but it doesn't tick, I tried from the system settings panel but it doesn't move to the on position, the switch works for the other wireless but not for mobile broadband
[10:36] <pr0ph3t> does anybody know what the reason might be?
[10:38] <pr0ph3t> I'll give you lots of irc dollars if you help!
[10:39] <cliftonts> Hi everyone
[10:39] <cliftonts> I've got a question for you
[10:39] <MooDoo> cliftonts: just ask away :)
[10:40] <cliftonts> I've installed ubuntu and kubuntu on some low spec machines, 2.8ghz, 40gb, 512mb
[10:40] <AlanBell> cliftonts: what graphics cards?
[10:40] <cliftonts> I'm about to swap ubuntu for xubuntu because it's too slow even using unity 2D
[10:40] <cliftonts> couldn't tell you without looking Alan
[10:41] <AlanBell> go look :)
[10:41] <AlanBell> cliftonts: run lspci from a terminal
[10:41] <cliftonts> but the point is I'm swapping out ubuntu not kubuntu, is it possible unity has made kubuntu the faster release?
[10:41] <AlanBell> one line will be the graphics card (contains VGA somewhere)
[10:42] <cliftonts> I know, I know, I'm going brb
[10:42] <AlanBell> unity should run *fine* on that spec
[10:42] <AlanBell> although the 512 ram is the bit I would upgrade
[10:42]  * buzz_ runs xubuntu
[10:42] <buzz_> its quite ok
[10:43] <AlanBell> xubuntu is fine, but if consumers are getting a PC with Ubuntu on it and turning up here for support I would rather they were running Ubuntu
[10:43] <buzz_> my machines are xubuntu, ubuntu server, linux mint, and jolios
[10:43] <cliftonts> intel 82865g
[10:44] <AlanBell> 2.8ghz is not a particularly low spec CPU
[10:44] <buzz_> if they are running unity, they will need support
[10:44] <cliftonts> agreed alan, I'd rather showcase ubuntu but I can't demo how great it is when you have to go off and get a coffee every time you click something
[10:45] <AlanBell> cliftonts: sure, I want to get to the bottom of that
[10:45] <buzz_> xubuntu runs quite ok on my 512mb ram machine here (joggler)
[10:45] <buzz_> although i tend to use jolios on that
[10:45] <cliftonts> something is making them unbearably slow, I'd say lack of ram
[10:45] <cliftonts> the hard drive churns away for ages
[10:46] <cliftonts> I'm going to see if I can pick up some ram on the cheap at the computer fair, bump them up to 1gb
[10:46] <MooDoo> buzz_: what you think to mint?  is it 11 or 12 you're running
[10:47] <cliftonts> it's funny kubuntu is  coping though, I've always considered that to be the intensive one
[10:47] <AlanBell> I have an atom 1.6Ghz processor with an Intel 82945G graphics chipset
[10:47] <buzz_> the last one. i will "try" the new one when it comes out in vbox or so
[10:47] <AlanBell> cliftonts: how about unity 2d, does that work OK?
[10:47] <buzz_> on my o2 joggler, kde runs horribly, whereas unity 2d is ok. so
[10:47] <cliftonts> nope
[10:48] <cliftonts> better but not usable
[10:48] <cliftonts> how much memory on your atom Alan?
[10:48] <AlanBell> 1GB
[10:49] <AlanBell> can you try stealing 512 from one and make a machine with 1GB to try it?
[10:49] <buzz_> MooDoo, if i go to linux mint 12, i might use the gnome2 forked "mate" desktop, as the hardware is pretty old anyway which i run it on (old desktop and 7 year old laptop)
[10:49] <cliftonts> there you go,  I don't think 512 is enough
[10:49] <buzz_> 512 is enough for xubuntu. at least on my system
[10:49] <cliftonts> I've upgraded them as much as I can, 2 are now 768 and 1 is 1gb
[10:49] <buzz_> lxde will use even less
[10:50] <buzz_> cliftonts, tried jolios ? :)
[10:50] <Myrtti> MooDoo: still considering, probably not (re: IRCC)
[10:50] <cliftonts> I'm downloading xubuntu and lubuntu now, will re-install and perhaps put ubuntu back on during the show if I get more memory. Perhaps I could make a show of how easy it is?
[10:50] <buzz_> its ubuntu lucid (gnome) but with html5 based interface, and you can sync machines etc
[10:51] <cliftonts> no buzz, never heard of it
[10:51] <MooDoo> Myrtti: is it's something you'd be interested in doing?
[10:51] <buzz_> cliftonts, http://www.jolicloud.com/download
[10:51] <cliftonts> but I want to stick with the ubuntu family to make support easier
[10:52] <pr0ph3t> maybe I need to install the kernel headers for the upgraded kernel before I reinstall the module which I shouldn't need to reinstall everytime since it is a dkms?
[10:52] <cliftonts> I'm intrigued, why don't I know about jolios already?
[10:52] <cliftonts> looks interesting
[10:53] <buzz_> i run it on my little jogglers and it looks a bit like this (you can have a nice background of course) http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/images/jolicloud1.1-2.png
[10:53] <buzz_> which is more usable on 800x480 than this (unity2d) http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/unity2.png
[10:53] <mattt> buzz_: interesting domain :)
[10:53] <cliftonts> sort of like my mobile phone, strips out all the techie side of computing?
[10:54] <buzz_> http://www.exotica.org.uk :-) safe for work!
[10:54] <buzz_> cliftonts, pretty much.
[10:54] <mattt> buzz_: :D
[10:54] <Myrtti> MooDoo: it's more about inner need to try to serve the community than really wanting to do it. it's not a grateful job and I don't think anybody *wants* to do it
[10:54] <cliftonts> what about configuring? it looks like it's all end user and no admin
[10:55] <buzz_> configuring what ?
[10:55] <MooDoo> Myrtti: i think it sounds certainly interesting, wether it is or not is a different matter :)
[10:55] <pr0ph3t> so if I get this error it means the module is already loaded? insmod: error inserting 'asus-laptop.ko': -1 File exists
[10:55] <buzz_> its gnome2 underneath. the panel at the top is a gnome panel etc
[10:55] <MooDoo> buzz_: chaos engine yippee [logos at top of page]
[10:55] <cliftonts> well put ubuntu on 5 laptops and 4 of them won't work properly, I assume this thing isn't god's gift to hardware
[10:55] <Daviey> pr0ph3t: try: sudo modprobe -r asus-laptop
[10:56] <buzz_> MooDoo, :)
[10:56] <buzz_> MooDoo, it switches round each day we have a few different logos
[10:56] <MooDoo> awesome :)
[10:56] <pr0ph3t> Daviey, and then do insmod again?
[10:57] <buzz_> site is just starting its 15th year online.
[10:57] <Daviey> pr0ph3t: right
[10:57] <buzz_> time flies
[10:57] <pr0ph3t> now it's insmod: error inserting 'asus-laptop.ko': -1 Unknown symbol in module
[10:57] <cliftonts> right then. I'm off to install stuff
[10:58] <Daviey> pr0ph3t: following the pattern? :)
[10:58] <Daviey> pr0ph3t: modprobe -r $module <-- does a remove
[10:58] <pr0ph3t> yes
[10:58] <Daviey> pr0ph3t: see the example on the page?  You'll need to prepend them with sudo
[10:59] <pr0ph3t> Daviey, yes I do that, he doesn't specify it
[11:00] <pr0ph3t> so if I get that error it means the module has not loaded correct?
[11:02] <Daviey> pr0ph3t: yes
[11:03] <pr0ph3t> Daviey, is the sequence correct though, apart from the missing sudo before make install, reboot, modprobe and insmod
[11:04] <pr0ph3t> I have to admit it has been a nightmare to keep this thing working up until now, with every update I had to do something to make it work again. I don't know what I'm supposed to do this time to be able to use it again
[11:05] <Daviey> pr0ph3t: well it's correct for what he is describing, but note - every kernel abi bump, you'll have to redo thsi
[11:06] <pr0ph3t> yes that is what I tried to do this time but it doesn't work this time
[11:06] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[11:06] <Daviey> pr0ph3t: what part doesn't work?
[11:06] <pr0ph3t> morning brobostigon
[11:06] <brobostigon> what is chris evens doing, as a chef, on saturday kitchen, weird.
[11:06] <pr0ph3t> Daviey, I can't switch the mobile broadband on
[11:06] <brobostigon> morning pr0ph3t
[11:07] <pr0ph3t> neither from the top panel network manager, nor from the Network settings in the System Settings window
[11:08] <Daviey> pr0ph3t: Have you already "sudo make install" ?
[11:08] <pr0ph3t> Daviey, yes
[11:09] <Daviey> pr0ph3t: and what was returned on the screen?
[11:09] <pr0ph3t> should I modprobe -r all and then make and make install, or should I reboot before I make install?
[11:09] <Daviey> pr0ph3t: Right, lets go through each stage
[11:10] <Daviey> git clone git://git.iksaif.net/acpi4asus-dkms.git
[11:10] <pr0ph3t> got it
[11:10] <Daviey> downloads the source code
[11:10] <pr0ph3t> yes
[11:10] <Daviey> cd acpi4asus-dkms.git
[11:10] <Daviey> get into the source code tree
[11:11] <Daviey> make
[11:11] <Daviey> (does the compile)
[11:11] <pr0ph3t> yes
[11:11] <pr0ph3t> all fine no errors so far
[11:12] <Daviey> sudo modprobe -r 'modules'
[11:12] <pr0ph3t> yes
[11:12] <Daviey> series of modules, that removes them from the kernel currently in memory.
[11:12] <Daviey> insmod modules.ko , loads the compiled kernels
[11:13] <Daviey> but doesn't make it so they are persistent between reboots.
[11:13] <Daviey> You should be able to test at this stage and have success
[11:13] <Daviey> When you are sure it's working, "sudo make install" will install it to the disk
[11:16] <pr0ph3t> Daviey, ~/acpi4asus-dkms/drivers/platform/x86$ sudo insmod asus-laptop.ko
[11:16] <pr0ph3t> = insmod: error inserting 'asus-laptop.ko': -1 Unknown symbol in module
[11:17] <pr0ph3t> should I still test?
[11:17] <pr0ph3t> or reboot?
[11:18] <pr0ph3t> mobile broadband is still not enabled
[11:23] <pr0ph3t> did I do something wrong?
[11:27] <Daviey> pr0ph3t: can you, sudo apt-get install pastebinit
[11:27] <Daviey> dmesg | pastebinit
[11:27] <Daviey> and paste the returned address here please?
[11:29] <pr0ph3t> sec
[11:29] <pr0ph3t> http://paste.ubuntu.com/750180/
[11:33] <Daviey> pr0ph3t: I suspect it's the ordering of the load
[11:33] <Daviey> You had the same problem in October?
[11:33] <pr0ph3t> yes
[11:36] <pr0ph3t> Daviey, what's the ordering of the load?
[11:37] <Daviey> I mean, that i suspect one of the modules depends on symbols exposed by another module
[11:37] <Daviey> modprobe tends to be pretty good at resolving this, insmod is not
[11:37] <Daviey> When you fixed this last time, i'm guessing you just "sudo make install" then rebooted?
[11:38] <pr0ph3t> so I should load another module before I insmod that one correct?
[11:38] <pr0ph3t> yes pretty much that's what I did
[11:38] <Daviey> pr0ph3t: Do that again :)
[11:39] <pr0ph3t> Daviey, and I actually thought I had solved the problem, it worked on more than one occasion that method, not this time though. I'll give it another go
[11:39] <pr0ph3t> be right back
[11:41] <Pr0ph3t> ok I'm booting
[11:42] <Pr0ph3t> I already tried though Davies
[11:42] <Pr0ph3t> Daviey*
[11:43] <Pr0ph3t> maybe I could boot with an older kernel and see if it works then
[11:43] <Daviey> great
[11:44] <Daviey> Wellm you installed the modules to the current kernel, right?
[11:45] <Rolka> #ubuntu-lt
[11:46] <Pr0ph3t> yes, it does it automatically
[11:47] <Pr0ph3t> Daviey nothing, still can't switch the bloody thing on :(
[11:49] <Pr0ph3t> thanks for your help though
[11:51] <Daviey> Pr0ph3t: :(
[11:51] <Daviey> Pr0ph3t: I think you should try some experimentation, and work out what you did before
[11:51] <Daviey> Perhaps start the process from scratch
[12:32] <MooDoo> hi, just heard people talking about this page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences/ApprovedTeamGift  isn't AlanBell out poc and not DaveWalker or is it irrelevant the contact on that page?
[12:34] <Sif> afternoon all. I was hpoing i maight be able to trouble someone for a little help regarding data recovery from a HDD which cannot be mounted in Ubuntu 11.10, currently running on LiveCD
[12:35] <czajkowski> MooDoo: it was for order the banner and stuff which has been done
[12:35] <czajkowski> it doesnt need to update the current PoC
[12:35] <MooDoo> ah ok </interferringdone> :)
[12:36] <czajkowski> MooDoo: nope not at all valid question
[12:36] <czajkowski> that page was created to keep track of the requests
[12:36] <czajkowski> request done :)
[12:38] <Sif> is anybody free to help?
[12:39] <MooDoo> Sif: just ask, if anyone can help they will
[12:40] <Sif> OK, thanks MooDoo. Here's the problem. I have to try and recover files from a vista machine which refuses to boot. i have used a Ubunto11.10 liveCD and i have it up and running. When i open disk utility, i can see the hard drive (/dev/sda) but cannot access, or mount it, or run benchmarks on it
[12:40] <Sif> after a few hours of googling, i'm no closer to being able to actually see the contents of this drive
[12:43] <MooDoo> Sif: can't you boot of a live cd and then mount the drive using soemthing like mount /dev/sda /mnt?
[12:43] <AlanBell> MooDoo: yes, but Daviey was at the time
[12:44] <MooDoo> AlanBell: thanks czajkowski cleared it up for me :D
[12:45] <Sif> : /dev/sda /mnt gave me permission denied
[12:45] <AlanBell> Daviey: any chance of getting the banner/tablecloth to the london area over christmas? Just put it in millbank somewhere and I can get it from there
[12:47] <MooDoo> Sif: have a look at /var/log/messages it should tell you the actual drive, perhaps it's /dev/sda1?
[12:47] <brobostigon> or fdisk -l ?
[12:47] <MooDoo> or that
[12:48] <Sif> yeah, fdisk -l returns absolutely nothing. It's like it isn't communicating with the drive at all, despite it being there under disk utility
[12:49] <AlanBell> Sif: sudo fdisk -l
[12:50] <penguin42> Sif: How big a drive?
[12:50]  * AlanBell has a new mouse
[12:50] <Sif> : sudo fdisk -l does nothing,it merely moves to the next line of the cmd prompt
[12:51] <AlanBell> went for a simple one in the end
[12:51] <Sif> it's a 250gb hitachi drive
[12:51]  * penguin42 hands AlanBell a crumb of cheese
[12:51] <penguin42> Sif: Can you pastebin /proc/partitions and /proc/scsi/scsi ?
[12:52] <Sif> ATA Hitachi HT554502. Location: Port 1 of SATA Host Adapter. Device: /dev/sda
[12:53] <Sif> it says permission denied for both of those commands, and when preceeded by sudo, it says command not found
[12:54] <brobostigon> they are files, not commands.
[12:54] <penguin42> Sif: Do   sudo apt-get install pastebinit    and then    sudo pastebinit -i /proc/partitions
[12:55] <Sif> E: unable to locate package pastebinit
[12:56] <penguin42> hmm
[12:56] <AlanBell> sudo apt-get update first
[12:57] <jacobw> http://www.thinkgeek.com/clearance/991e/#tabs
[12:57] <jacobw> :o
[12:57] <Sif> the update didn't help. same error as before
[12:59] <AlanBell> cliftonts: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/774999
[12:59] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 774999 in Baltix "[i865G] Upgrade should warn user about lack of support for old 8xx intel hardware" [Undecided,New]
[13:02] <Daviey> AlanBell: I'm not sure i'll be going into millbank before end of year, but I will be in near Southampton.. Perhaps we can work something out?
[13:02] <Daviey> afk
[13:03] <cliftonts> oh?
[13:03] <cliftonts> so you think the low performnce is purely a video issue?
[13:04] <jacobw> [sudo] fdisk [option] <disk>
[13:06] <Sif> for all the mounting, it says 'can't read superblock'
[13:06] <Sif> that sounds like it might be a bad thing
[13:06] <jacobw> 'sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda' should tell you which is the ntfs partition, assuming the drive is the first sata
[13:08] <Sif> that command doesnt' do anything, it just moves to the next line on the terminal. And yeah, Location: Port 1 of SATA host adapter
[13:08] <cliftonts> A quick puzzle for everyone, I've got a cover disc from linux format with 3 versions of ubuntu on it (ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu) as a result of that you don't get the 'push button for advanced options' screen you would on a dedicated disc. So how would I do an oem install?
[13:10] <ali1234> you'd have to ask linux format
[13:11] <cliftonts> you don't know what command would be issued to start the installer in oem mode then?
[13:11] <jacobw> Sif: odd, what does 'file /dev/sda' say?
[13:12] <Sif> '/dev/sda: block special'
[13:12] <AlanBell> cliftonts: you need the alternate CD for the OEM install
[13:13] <cliftonts> no you don't, usually with a live cd push a key when the nonsensical hyroglyphics are on the screen to get the menu up and then select it from there
[13:13] <AlanBell> oh OK, I haven't done the OEM thing since about Hardy
[13:14] <AlanBell> the hyroglyphs are the symbols for press a key to get to the accessibility options
[13:14] <AlanBell> and are the most embarrasingly stupid thing ever added to Ubuntu
[13:14] <cliftonts> yes but they don't say that to me, they don't have an obvious meaning
[13:15] <cliftonts> keyboard = man standing in a circle isn't it?
[13:15] <ali1234> got a picture of them?
[13:15] <AlanBell> press a key when you see this symbol if you are blind /o\
[13:15] <AlanBell> http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility
[13:15] <AlanBell> that symbol
[13:16] <ali1234> the man in a circle?
[13:16] <AlanBell> in 11.10 you press ctrl+s when you hear the drums as the liveCD boots to launch orca
[13:16] <AlanBell> ali1234: yes, it is on the livecd splashscreen
[13:17] <ali1234> yeah i've seen it before
[13:17] <AlanBell> doesn't mean much even if you can see
[13:17] <ali1234> yeah
[13:17] <cliftonts> ali1234: load a ubuntu live disk, the first graphic it shows is at the bottom of the screen a picture of a keyboard the = sign and a man stood in a circle
[13:18] <cliftonts> it's supposed to mean push a key for more options
[13:18] <AlanBell> specifically the accessibility options
[13:18] <cliftonts> however the literal translation is WTF?
[13:18] <cliftonts> AlanBell: Then push F4 for the menu with OEM in it
[13:19] <AlanBell> ok
[13:22] <cliftonts> Ha! I think I got it!
[13:22] <cliftonts> maybe
[13:24] <jacobw> Sif: post 'lspci | grep SATA' to http://paste.ubuntu.com/
[13:28] <gordonjcp> cliftonts: right, but how are you supposed to know what that blob is?
[13:28] <gordonjcp> cliftonts: what it *appears* happens is you boot an Ubuntu live CD, and it crashes immediately on startup with a black screen with some funny little logo at the bottom
[13:29] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: you are *supposed* to recognise the gnome a11y team logo, quite why the designer of the splashscreen made that expectation is a mystery
[13:29] <cliftonts> Sorry gordonjcp?
[13:30] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: it's not particularly recognisable
[13:30] <cliftonts> no, I agree
[13:30] <ali1234> AlanBell: there's plenty of things in ubuntu that you are just supposed to know
[13:30] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: I mean, even allowing for the fact that all the icons are just random unrecognisable blobs as far as I'm concerned
[13:30] <ali1234> like that there's an invisible menu at the top of the screen
[13:30] <gordonjcp> ali1234: that's true of any OS though
[13:31] <ali1234> or middle clicking
[13:31] <AlanBell> I just had a thought . . . http://www.apple.com/accessibility/
[13:31] <AlanBell> you are *supposed* to have a mac
[13:31] <AlanBell> that is what was going through the designer mind :)
[13:31] <gordonjcp> ali1234: look at all the weird random stuff you have to "just know" to make Windows work
[13:31] <ali1234> figures
[13:31] <cliftonts> true
[13:32] <Sif> jacobw: done
[13:33] <AlanBell> Sif: you appear to be missing an essential step in sharing that information ;)
[13:34] <Sif> ??
[13:34] <ali1234> is there a way to change the default pastebin?
[13:34] <jacobw> Sif: what's the URL?
[13:34] <AlanBell> ali1234: yes, there is, one sec  . . .
[13:34] <Sif> ah, paste.ubuntu.com/750282/
[13:34] <Sif> doh
[13:34] <ali1234> a way that does not require patching pastebinit
[13:35] <AlanBell> make a ~.pastebinit.xml file
[13:36] <Sif2> ok, i'm on thi username now...this is the damaged machine
[13:37] <AlanBell> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/oneiric/en/man1/pastebinit.1.html
[13:37] <ali1234> hmm i wonder what is the least obnoxious pastebin then
[13:37] <AlanBell> pastebinit -l gives you a list of them
[13:38] <jacobw> Sif: 'lsmod | grep ahci'
[13:38] <AlanBell> I think it is distropatched to use paste.ubuntu.com now
[13:38] <ali1234> it is
[13:39] <ali1234> but the thing is, everyone *hates* paste.ubuntu.com because you have to login to launchpad to download the raw paste
[13:39]  * AlanBell likes it
[13:39] <ali1234> and because it has no syntax highlighting
[13:39] <AlanBell> it does
[13:39] <jacobw> why do have to log in to launchpad?!
[13:39] <ali1234> well that's new
[13:39] <AlanBell> but pastebinit doesn't trigger syntax hilighting by default
[13:39] <Sif2> jacobw: http://paste.ubuntu.com/750294/
[13:42] <AlanBell> ali1234: pastebinit -f python orca.py gives me http://paste.ubuntu.com/750296/
[13:43] <ali1234> now click "download as text" when not logged in to launchpad
[13:43] <AlanBell> yeah, I am never not logged in to launchpad
[13:44] <ali1234> also there's no way to modify it
[13:44] <AlanBell> modify it?
[13:44] <ali1234> yes like if you want to correct it
[13:44] <jacobw> Sif2: 'modinfo libahci'
[13:45] <jacobw> Sif2: i doubt that will tell us much
[13:45] <ali1234> you have to copy it all, type in "paste.ubuntu.com" manually to url bar, paste it, then edit it
[13:45] <ali1234> cos there isn't even a "new paste" link
[13:45] <jacobw> Sif2: 'sudo modprobe -ar libahci achi; sudo modprobe -a achi libachi'
[13:45] <Sif2> v
[13:45] <Sif2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/750300/
[13:46] <Sif2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/750301/
[13:49] <jacobw> damn :(
[13:50] <jacobw> Sif2: 'sudo modprobe -ar libahci ahci; sudo modprobe -a ahci libahci'
[13:50] <Sif2> bad news?
[13:50] <jacobw> try again..
[13:50] <AlanBell> ali1234: the feature I would like is an expiry time, defaulting to 1 month
[13:50] <jacobw> i don't think modprobe will allow you to reinsert those drivers
[13:51] <Sif2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/750304/
[13:53] <jacobw> Sif2: 'sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt'
[13:53] <jacobw> Sif2: assuming the ntfs partition is the first
[13:53] <AlanBell> ali1234: Bug #754813
[13:53] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 754813 in Canonical ISD web "paste.ubuntu.com requires login to download as text" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754813
[13:53] <ali1234> yes i know
[13:54] <AlanBell> and Bug #509217
[13:54] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 509217 in Ubuntu Website "paste.ubuntu.com requires authorization to "download as text"" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/509217
[13:54] <MooDoo> think i'm loosing the will to live
[13:54] <MooDoo> lol
[13:54] <ali1234> that first one is a dupe
[13:54] <AlanBell> it is, the second one is the real one
[13:56] <ali1234> yes and it is WONTFIX
[13:56] <ali1234> so i WONTUSE it
[13:58] <Sif2> jacobw: sorry dud, lost internet connection
[13:58] <Sif2> what did i miss?
[13:59] <penguin42> Sif2: Next weeks lottery numbers
[13:59] <Sif2> :(
[13:59] <jacobw> Sif2: 'sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt'
[13:59] <jacobw> Sif2: assuming the ntfs partition is the first
[14:00] <Sif2> jacobw: 'special device /dev/sda1 does not exist'
[14:01] <Sif2> same for 2, 3 & 4
[14:02]  * jacobw thinks the partiton table is dead
[14:02] <ali1234> heh
[14:02] <Sif2> so all access to any files is lost?
[14:03] <ali1234> no
[14:03] <ali1234> you just need an expert to recover the files for you
[14:04] <Sif2> well, i appreciate everyone's help, you've all been great
[14:04] <Sif2> guess i best pass along the bad news
[14:05] <jacobw> its not lost, try using testdisk to recover
[14:06] <Sif2> is that a windows programme?
[14:06] <jacobw> no
[14:06] <jacobw> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DataRecovery
[14:07] <Sif2> and it's cool for 11.10?
[14:07] <jacobw> you can install it in the live environment, 'sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get install testdisk'
[14:07] <jacobw> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Step_By_Step
[14:08] <Sif2> thanks ever so much, i'll trudge through that now
[14:08] <Sif2> E: Unable to locate package testdisk
[14:08] <Sif2> hmmmm
[14:10] <jacobw> you may need to enable universe
[14:12] <jacobw> which should be enabled by default..
[14:12] <Sif2> i don't know how to do that (sorry to be a pain in your arse)
[14:12] <jacobw> cat /etc/apt/sources.list | grep universe
[14:12] <jacobw> you have done 'sudo apt-get update' haven't you?
[14:13] <Sif2> yeah
[14:14] <Sif2> still unable to install testdisk
[14:14] <Sif2> 'cat /etc/apt/sources.list | grep universe' doesn't seemingly ddo anything
[14:15] <jacobw> ok
[14:17] <jacobw> replace the contents of /etc/apt/sources.list with http://paste.ubuntu.com/750324/ and try again
[14:17] <jacobw> create /etc/apt/sources.list if it doesn't exist
[14:20] <Sif2> nd i can't save it
[14:20] <Sif2> it says that it's read-only
[14:22] <danfish> hello hello
[14:22] <danfish> landscape is very cool, but is there a self-installable open source alternative?
[14:23] <jacobw> 'sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list'
[14:24] <Sif2> k....looking at 4 lines beginning with deb
[14:25] <jacobw> delete them, ctrl+k deletes lines, and paste in http://paste.ubuntu.com/750324/
[14:26] <Sif2> jut ctrl x after pasting?
[14:27] <jacobw> yeah
[14:28] <jacobw> ctrl+x,y,<enter>
[14:28] <Sif2> done
[14:28] <Sif2> still......E: Unable to locate package testdisk
[14:28] <jacobw> cool :) do a 'sudo apt-get update'
[14:28] <jacobw> then 'sudo apt-get install testdisk'
[14:29] <Sif2> ok....loading a lot of stuff
[14:31] <Sif2> installed :)
[14:31] <jacobw> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Step_By_Step
[14:35] <Linuxsapien> which command do I use to find out version of Ubuntu I am using ?
[14:36] <MooDoo> lsb_release -a
[14:36] <MooDoo> from a terminal prompt obviously
[14:37] <MooDoo> Linuxsapien: that work for you?
[14:40] <Linuxsapien> please dont use the word "obviously", but thank you that is what I was looking for
[14:41]  * Linuxsapien offskies to have a.. what ever :D
[14:42] <Sif2> jacobw: test disk is still not findging the HDD, let alone missing partitions
[14:42] <MooDoo> Linuxsapien: i sit corrected :)
[14:43] <jacobw> Sif2: how did this problem start?
[14:43] <Sif2> that, i don't know. This is my fathers vista machine
[14:43] <Sif2> he said he was using the pc to write and it swutched off
[14:43] <Sif2> it would then no longer boot, saying operating system not found
[14:44] <jacobw> hmm, sounds like motherboard failure.
[14:44] <jacobw> you could confirm by swapping the disk with a known good disk and observe it not being recognised
[14:45] <Sif2> motherboard failures in laptops are more costly than a harddrive failure?
[14:46] <jacobw> probably
[14:46] <Sif2> ah
[14:47] <Sif2> well, the cost isn't the issue
[14:47] <jacobw> it may just be the one port, especially if nothing else appears broken
[14:47] <Sif2> if it means scrapping the laptop, then so be it
[14:47] <Sif2> but if the HDD can be plugged into an external case and accessed via another machine, that won't be so bad
[14:48] <jacobw> there may be more than one sata port, in which case you can move the drive to another sata port
[14:48] <Sif2> ok, right...i'll shut this down and get the screwdrivers out
[14:48] <jacobw> although i think that's very unlikley in laptop
[14:49] <jacobw> in any case, you probably haven't lost data.
[14:49] <Sif2> superb
[14:49] <Sif2> thanks again jacob, it's greatly appreciated
[14:49] <jacobw> no problem :)
[15:07] <ali1234> motherboard failure my ass
[15:25] <danfish> ali1234: your donkey's motherboard isn't working? Time to get a new donkey.
[16:07] <popey> Afternoon all.
[16:07] <czajkowski> popey: ello
[16:09] <MooDoo> hiya popey
[16:10] <MooDoo> seems quiet this after noon
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> *tumbleweed*
[16:11] <penguin42> nod
[16:11]  * MartijnVdS played with the camera on his Galaxy Nexus today
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> it's quite good
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> also.. built-in timelapse and panorama modes ♥
[16:12]  * MooDoo is watching the UDS P videos
[16:14] <MooDoo> hello czajkowski waves.....oh you're on video :)
[16:14] <popey> hmm, need to pop to the shop with sam to get some bits to make curry
[16:14] <popey> ttfn
[16:15] <MooDoo> later alan
[16:16] <Myrtti> meep.
[16:17] <Myrtti> trek to the hotel and from there to bowling alley and back to hotel resulted in blisters :-<
[16:17] <Myrtti> boo
[16:17] <MooDoo> ouch
[16:18] <Myrtti> and I specificically put my walking shoes on :-<
[16:18] <Myrtti> life is unfair
[16:18] <MooDoo> thicker socks
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> bigger shoes :)
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> that's what I did with my running shoes
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> I got horrible horrible blisters with my old shoes, so I got new ones a size bigger
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> *poof* no more blisters
[16:20] <Myrtti> yeah I think the problem with these is they're just a tad big rather than small
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: maybe there's something "sticking out", or some edge near where you got blisters
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: getting rid of those will help a lot
[16:29] <Myrtti> no, it's just me
[16:30] <MartijnVdS> OK you don't want our suggestions. Point taken. :)
[16:30] <MooDoo> Myrtti: fire walk toughen your feet up :D
[16:31] <Myrtti> MooDoo: just more walking, doesn't need fire for it
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> also, http://www.boots.com/en/Compeed-Blister-Hydrocolloid-Medium-5-Plasters_2407/ :)
[16:32] <MooDoo> Myrtti: are there nice walks where you are?
[16:33] <Myrtti> yeah, should really have more walks
[16:33] <Myrtti> perhaps take my camera out more
[16:34] <MooDoo> Myrtti: that's sounds like a plan :)
[16:35] <gordonjcp> is there a way to force unity to use 2d instead of 3d
[16:35] <gordonjcp> ?
[16:36]  * penguin42 thought he had seen that on the login menu
[16:36] <gordonjcp> hm, maybe, hang on while I log out again
[16:39] <gordonjcp> ah, yeah, that's got it
[16:39] <gordonjcp> and the screen corruption has gone too
[16:39] <gordonjcp> xorg is still screaming away at 90% CPU usage, but it's still an improvement
[16:49] <daubers> Afternoon
[16:52] <MattJ> Evening
[16:56] <MooDoo> how do! :)
[16:58] <penguin42> gordonjcp: 90% - doing what?
[17:01]  * daubers might be putting an offer on a house next week \o/
[17:01] <MooDoo> woohoo
[17:01] <AlanBell> nice
[17:14] <daubers> waiting for the financial advisor to get back to me :)
[17:20] <MooDoo> daubers: fingers crossed then
[17:21] <daubers> yup :)
[17:24] <gordonjcp> penguin42: sitting at a desktop
[17:24] <gordonjcp> penguin42: one xterm open, showing top
[17:24] <penguin42> gordonjcp: Hmm that's excessive - what's the hardware ?
[17:25] <gordonjcp> penguin42: P4 3GHz, 2G RAM, onboard i945 graphics
[17:25] <penguin42> gordonjcp: Can you confirm it's *945* as opposed to an earlier intel chip?
[17:25] <gordonjcp> not without a screwdrivert
[17:25] <gordonjcp> -t
[17:25] <penguin42> gordonjcp: Can you pastebin lspci ?
[17:27] <gordonjcp> http://pastebin.com/JzG7BZNE
[17:27] <penguin42> hmm - sure is a 945
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> 945++
[17:28] <penguin42> gordonjcp: OK, that's weird - this laptop is a 945 and it's happy; admittedly it's a Core2 duo not a P4
[17:28] <penguin42> gordonjcp: Pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
[17:29] <gordonjcp> not easily, because it's too long to fit on one terminal
[17:29] <penguin42> gordonjcp: You can do it with pastebinit
[17:31] <gordonjcp> http://paste.ubuntu.com/750511/
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> cool -- my new phone shows the name of the city if an unknown number calls :)
[17:31] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] Ubuntu Developer Summit - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/11/ubuntu-developer-summit.html
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> (caller's city, of course)
[17:31] <popey> woop woop woop
[17:31] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: cute
[17:31] <penguin42> gordonjcp: Well, that's a happy bunny
[17:33] <penguin42> gordonjcp: Pastebin a dmesg?
[17:41]  * jacobw is somewhat annoyed the last tenant cleaned the markings from the oven
[17:42] <MartijnVdS> David Tennant?
[17:42] <jacobw> i have to guess which of the 8 functions is 'main oven' and where '180' might be on temperature knob
[17:43] <jacobw> doctor who wouldn't be so silly :p
[17:43] <popey> I'd find the model number of the oven and look for the manual online
[17:43] <popey> they almost always have a picture of the knobs
[17:46] <jacobw> ++popey
[17:52] <mattt> daubers: buying in reading?
[18:02] <daubers> mattt: Nah, newbury
[18:02] <daubers> looked in reading
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> popey: isn't that what the internet is for? pictures of knobs?
[18:06] <penguin42> :-)
[18:10] <Azelphur>  My uncles gone out and bought an android tablet and I'm trying to get the USB 3g dongle to work. It's an O2 dongle and the tablet wants the following information: Device Number, APN, User, Password. Anyone know what I'd put in these fields?
[18:13] <Linuxsapien> Azelphur  query me please
[18:13] <AlanBell> Azelphur: it will be in the network manager defaults somewhere (the info)
[18:16] <AlanBell> Azelphur: plug it in to an Ubuntu desktop and let it set up the connection, then edit the connection
[18:17] <popey> or just google it
[18:17] <Azelphur> AlanBell: good idea
[18:17] <popey> its well documented online
[18:17] <Azelphur> tried googling it didn't really get anywhere
[18:17] <Azelphur> I mean I tried the apn details I found, but it didn't work
[18:17] <Azelphur> and lots of conflicting information
[18:17] <popey> i would prove it works first as AlanBell says
[18:18] <Linuxsapien> i just googled it too, its all there.. ALWAYS google before asking :)
[18:18] <Azelphur> yea, trying that now just firing up my laptop
[18:18] <Azelphur> I did google before asking, I just mentioned that
[18:19] <Linuxsapien> aye we dud
[18:19] <Azelphur> :)
[18:23] <AlanBell> popey: it wasn't to prove it works, it was to extract the settings
[18:24] <popey> i didnt mean that
[18:24] <popey> i meant prove it works in the manner AlanBell described
[18:24] <AlanBell> that is a nice side effect :)
[18:24] <Azelphur> AlanBell: yay it's working
[18:25] <Azelphur> internet cookies for you good sir :P
[18:26] <AlanBell> the second best type of cookies :) nom
[18:27] <rbsfou> Hi all, i know i'm probably asking the earth in some ways, but can anyone recommend a decent netbook? I'd like it to be dual core, 64bit, nvidia graphics.....and no optimus!
[18:27]  * penguin42 prefers the triple chocolate type
[18:27] <penguin42> of cookie, not netbook
[18:27] <rbsfou> So far i'm thinking of the Asus 1201n, even though it isn't available without one of 'those stickers'
[18:28] <rbsfou> But that's the last generation of atoms, a 330 which 'only' has 512kib l2 cache....the new atoms are 1mib
[18:30] <rbsfou> Currently on an Acer Aspire One zg5 (the ssd model) and it's a bit 'meh'....i think the ion might actually consume less power than the 945!
[18:30] <popey> what do you want to do with it rbsfou ?
[18:30] <rbsfou> Minecraft :)
[18:30] <popey> nvidia graphics in a netbook!?
[18:30] <popey> never seen that myself
[18:31] <rbsfou> Well, not just that....but i don't need hardware virtualization on this particular machine so i'd rather atom than ulv
[18:31] <popey> also, why netbook>
[18:31] <popey> ?
[18:31] <popey> why not a normal size laptop?
[18:32]  * AlanBell is waiting for the asus transformer prime before getting back into the netbook owners club
[18:32] <rbsfou> popey: You not seen the ION or ION2? The trouble of course with the latter is that it's almost inevitably not arranged as the primary GPU, but as some sort of 'slave' which renders frames which go into the Intel gfx frame buffer.....'optimus' technology, but it doesn't work on Linux
[18:32] <popey> i have two ion based devices on my desk
[18:32] <rbsfou> Want it to be small and light, easily holdable in one hand
[18:33] <popey> that asus looks about right
[18:33] <popey> but I dont think I'd invest in a 1.6GHz cpu these days
[18:33] <rbsfou> AlanBell : Yeah i saw that, looks nice....but just like the other Arm devices is focused on Android....and in the absence of standards in the ARM world, 'normal' linux support is going to be hit and miss :(
[18:33] <popey> they're a bit long in the tooth
[18:35] <rbsfou> Yeah that's what i mean :( It IS dual core, and 64bit...had the ION1 / Atom Z330 combo in the Asus Revo 3610 and was a nice little desktop....but the 512k cache is goingto suck, i've got an Asus ION2 / D525 itx board now and it's so much faster :)
[18:35] <rbsfou> But finding that in netbook form always involves optimus :(
[18:35] <AlanBell> maybe an ultralight laptop is what you want
[18:36] <penguin42> rbsfou: Why Nvidia?
[18:36] <AlanBell> the macbook air form factor
[18:36] <rbsfou> I would be open to ARM, but it would need to have some sort of standard firmware that i new i'd be able to upgrade the OS on in future....and so far it seems a case of 'good luck with that'
[18:37] <rbsfou> penguin42 : Minecraft :) Ran ok on my revo 3610, which is basically the same as the Asus 1201n i was thinking of
[18:37] <AlanBell> ASUS UX21E if you don't mind price
[18:38] <popey> i have an arm laptop and it's not particularly performant
[18:39] <rbsfou> popey: ooh really? They always seem to be 'just round the corner'....and ebay seems full of nice little machines (but without the graphics performance), but they are always CE or Android
[18:39] <popey> It came with Android
[18:39] <popey> I put Ubuntu on it
[18:40] <rbsfou> AlanBell : Ta, looks nice....but too pricey, i can only really spend up to £500
[18:41] <rbsfou> popey : Which machine was it? The reason why i'm thinking of getting a new netbook is so i can give the ZG5, running lubuntu and stuff like gcompris to my 4yr old nephew as xmas pressie
[18:41] <popey> Toshiba AC100
[18:41] <rbsfou> popey: But a nice little ARM / SSD thing could be nice for him too, and i'd just stick with the ZG5 for a while longer.....guessing there's no flash though right :(
[18:42] <rbsfou> Oh i seen those on ebay actually......seems more quality than the cheap chinese via arm netbooks tablets that ebay seems flooded with
[18:42] <popey> yes, you can get flash on it
[18:42] <popey> whether you'd want to...
[18:43] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwrX6zipkMA in german, but shows it
[18:44] <rbsfou> popey : Ahh ok i'll have a look at that....I've also got an n900, and to upgrade to flash 10.1 involves using a libflashplayer.so that was leaked from Texas Instruments :(
[18:44] <popey> heh
[18:45] <rbsfou> Seems ARM and Android are as intertwined as x86 and windows these days :(
[18:47] <rbsfou> Android has some nice features, like break with legacy X, but it's not meant for multi-user use.....it is linux, but seems nothing like a desktop linux system, which is what i'd want
[18:48] <rbsfou> Ahh anyway ta for the suggestions guys....there's never a good time to buy this stuff, and as usual, 'vanilla' Linux users are always the lowest priority
[18:52] <rbsfou> Does anyone know what's going on in terms of the ARM world and standards? Like are we going to have a standard firmware, standard way of initiazling devices, all that sort of Jazz?
[18:53] <rbsfou> I'd like to think MS bringing windows to ARM will do this....but i bet it won't, they seem to be looking to locking down the way apple do nowadays....windows phone 7 is market only for apps
[18:55] <ali1234> ARM is a mess
[18:55] <ali1234> there are no standards at all
[18:56] <rbsfou> Yeah...i saw an article about Linus getting tired of all these patches to the kernel for each variant of it
[18:56] <danfish> popey: probably rude to ask, but how many computificating devices do you currently own/use?
[18:56] <ali1234> the reason is arm devices don't have slots
[18:57] <ali1234> everything is in one chip
[18:57] <rbsfou> Thing is, Shuttleworth did say a couple years ago about ARM ubuntu machines being available, and i have seen a few machines here and there....but not as many as i'd like
[18:57] <ali1234> windows on arm isn't going to help
[18:57] <ali1234> microsoft is no longer the small startup trying to gain a foothold in the market
[18:57] <rbsfou> ali1234 : Agreed. I think it's the perfect reason for them to start locking up.
[18:58] <ali1234> also, nobody really cares about windows on arm
[18:58] <rbsfou> Also, no one seems to say whether you'll be able to upgrade these ubuntu ARM machines in the future....they almost seem as throwaway in that regard as the cheap VIA android slates and netbooks on ebay....and i really hate throwing away usable hardware
[18:59] <ali1234> nothing wth an ARM chip will be upgradable
[18:59] <ali1234> it will have no slots
[18:59] <ali1234> if you're really lucky you'll be able to upgrade the ram
[18:59] <rbsfou> I meant more in the case of software
[18:59] <ali1234> but in most cases even that will involve soldering new chips
[19:00] <ali1234> the software won't be upgradable either
[19:00] <ali1234> for the same reason
[19:00] <rbsfou> You do see newer roms available for some of these cheap android slates.....but there's no guarantee of that
[19:00] <ali1234> if you want 3d acceleration to work you will be trapped on a single specific kernel version for ever
[19:01] <ali1234> and, without 3d acceleration, the shiny user interfac will run very very slowly
[19:01] <ali1234> so the only kind of "upgrades" you are likely to see are ones that involve putting debian and some ancient desktop environment on it
[19:02] <rbsfou> As a former amigan, i use to bemoan the Windows PC for stuff like the clunky instruction set and exotic range of hardware....but at least the ol' BIOS has evolved to included things like ACPI (now that it's cleaner), and DMI/PNP for initializing PCI hardware, and BIOS 'function' roms and stuff
[19:13] <MooDoo> evening all
[19:13] <MooDoo> :)
[19:14] <rbsfou> lo MooDoo
[19:14] <rbsfou> ta for the community pointers the other night
[19:14] <MooDoo> no worries :)
[19:15] <rbsfou> Is there many uk meetings in meatspace?
[19:15] <Laney> coMOOnity
[19:15] <MooDoo> lol
[19:15] <rbsfou> lol
[19:15] <MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam#Meetings
[19:16] <AlanBell> rbsfou: http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/ <- beerspace meetings
[19:16] <MooDoo> next one is on dec 1st for the ubuntu uk team
[19:16] <rbsfou> I live in Essex and there doesn't seem to be much round my way....though there is a LUG in Southend
[19:16] <MooDoo> perhaps you could have a go at starting something?
[19:16] <AlanBell> rbsfou: tell me a postcode and pub name and I will add it to the list
[19:17] <rbsfou> AlanBell : Will have to have a think about that, not really a pubby person
[19:17] <rbsfou> MooDoo : I am tempted....got a couple mates i've got using Linux now
[19:17] <AlanBell> thats fine
[19:17] <MooDoo> rbsfou: then what about an ubuntu hour?  a friendly meetup in a cafe or something?
[19:18] <AlanBell> they are just rather good, free, safe, findable meeting places
[19:19] <rbsfou> Yeah....I should get my arse up to this LUG in Southend really and meet some folk in meatspace really
[19:19] <MooDoo> yeah it's fun :)  you neve know you might meet some people who fancy having an event or something
[19:21] <rbsfou> http://wiki.soslug.org/ Don't suppose anyone on the channel who's watching is in essex?
[19:22] <MooDoo> nottingham for m
[19:22] <MooDoo> me
[19:22] <penguin42> hmm I'll have to watch out for when that Manchester one comes around
[19:23] <AlanBell> penguin42: they are not in a very fixed order
[19:24] <AlanBell> if you want manchester sooner then I am open to bribery
[19:24] <penguin42> hehe
[19:25] <MooDoo> penguin42: you think he's joking ;)
[19:25] <penguin42> no no, just thinking of what to bribe him with
[19:25] <AlanBell> really, all it takes is someone to pick a date, I am aiming for roughly one a month, but more often is fine
[19:25] <AlanBell> just a date when you can certainly go, and be there at least from 8 to 9
[19:26] <penguin42> yeh, I'll have to think about that - don't do evenings often
[19:29] <rbsfou> where do you guys usually go in London?
[19:30] <rbsfou> My partner and i went here the other day as i have an old uni mate who's involved and it was something of a revelation https://london.hackspace.org.uk/
[19:31]  * jacobw went there on Tuesday
[19:32] <jacobw> i may have seen you, if it were also there on Tuesday
[19:33] <rbsfou> jacobw: Are you the shorter younger guy i was talking to about your previous life in telecoms? Yeah it was tuesday we went
[19:40] <jacobw> rbsfou: yes
[19:41] <rbsfou> jacobw: ahh ok...thought i'd check out the irc
[19:41] <jacobw> :)
[19:42] <jacobw> you must be richard?
[19:44] <rbsfou> yeah i am....Thom is sitting next to me
[21:15] <slawek> ffjhfhfxdz
[21:15] <slawek> dsdt nhuh jhyfjh
[21:27] <mattt> :/
[21:31] <mfraz74> Evening
[21:51] <BigRedS> Is there some handy free tool for converting pdfs to whatever the kidnle's native format is?
[21:53] <brunogirin> BigRedS: calibre can do that
[21:53] <bigcalm> BigRedS: you can just email PDFs to your kindle address
[21:53] <bigcalm> (That's what I do)
[21:55] <BigRedS> bigcalm: yeah, but the pdf renders badly 'cause the font's a bit too small for the res of the screen
[21:55] <BigRedS> I can view it landscape and scroll is a  bit weird, or portrait and squint.
[21:55] <bigcalm> I see
[21:55] <BigRedS> brunogirin: Aha! I keep meaning to fiddle with that. Now's probably the time :)
[21:56] <BigRedS> with some irony, it's Amazon's own EC2 docs I'm trying to read
[21:56] <brunogirin> hang on, I'm checking that I'm not telling lies here: it can't find the Kindle format in the drop down
[21:57] <BigRedS> Ah. well, apt's chugging away so I'll see if any other formats it does render better anyway :)
[22:01] <brunogirin> You should be able to use the MOBI format on the Kindle
[22:01] <brunogirin> To which Calibre can definitely convert
[22:04] <BigRedS> ah, nifty
[22:04] <BigRedS> I've broken apt :/
[22:04] <BigRedS> so, er, when I've fixed this I'll try it :)
[22:05] <BigRedS> ta
[23:10] <mattt> evening
[23:26] <BigRedS> G'morning!
[23:46] <BigRedS> oooh. Calibre is not a pretty app...