[00:57] <imnichol> So are this irc channel and the ubuntu-tv list the only development going on for an ubuntu tv at this point?
[00:58] <imnichol> I realize that this is still pretty early, so there's not going to be a huge amount of work on it
[03:14] <dmj726> imnichol: I'd like to know this as well
[03:31] <imnichol> I mean, I'm not a Canonical employee myself, so if there's a bunch of people being paid to do this, I'd like to know so that I don't end up stepping on their toes
[03:31] <dmj726> It would give me confidence to know that Canonical is actually giving this a big push right now.
[05:44] <imnichol> Agreed
[08:41] <IAmNotThatGuy> Any sign of Undi?
[09:00] <MrChrisDruif> Good day
[09:01] <IAmNotThatGuy> Good afternoon MrChrisDruif :]
[09:02] <MrChrisDruif> Good morning to you as well IAmNotThatGuy =)
[09:02] <IAmNotThatGuy> I wish it cpuld be Saturday night here :[
[09:02] <IAmNotThatGuy> could*
[09:12] <MrChrisDruif> Sunday morning over here
[09:26] <MrChrisDruif> Did you all see the email about the updated wiki area?
[16:01] <MrChrisDruif> AlanBell; I don't really like Pencil as it can only run in Firefox till about version 7 or something (that, and I'm more of a chromium man). Can't we just use .svg images? That can but handled by InkScape
[16:17] <AlanBell> it doesn't run in firefox, it gets launched from firefox
[16:17] <AlanBell> it runs in it's own window
[16:25] <MrChrisDruif> Still, I couldn't get it working
[16:25] <AlanBell> ok, how far did you get with it?
[16:26] <MrChrisDruif> Apparently you can also run it separately, but I've not yet managed that as well
[16:26] <AlanBell> http://evoluspencil.googlecode.com/files/Pencil-1.3-2-fx.xpi download that
[16:27] <AlanBell> in firefox you need to add it as an extension, then in the tools menu you get the pencil sketching option
[16:28] <AlanBell> you can use inkscape, but it isn't a wireframing storyboarding application
[16:32] <MrChrisDruif> Finally, it works
[16:32] <AlanBell> yay
[16:32] <MrChrisDruif> I had trouble installing it manually, but I just had to search for it on the internetz
[16:32] <AlanBell> I am just trying to launch it directly without using firefox
[16:34] <MrChrisDruif> Only version 1.2 seems to be available
[16:34] <MrChrisDruif> For a standalone version
[16:34] <MrChrisDruif> http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Downloads/Application.aspx
[16:34] <AlanBell> yeah, but you can expand the .xpi
[16:35] <AlanBell> in theory you can then run firefox --app ./application.ini
[16:35] <AlanBell> and I had to edit the application.ini to let it be compatible with firefox 8
[16:37] <MrChrisDruif> Ahh, if you get it working, let me know
[16:37] <AlanBell> I don't get the problem with running it as an extension though
[16:39] <MrChrisDruif> Btw, did you take a look at the wiki page already?
[16:39] <AlanBell> yeah, it is fine
[16:39] <MrChrisDruif> Good to hear
[16:40]  * MrChrisDruif is of for dinner
[17:15]  * AlanBell gives up trying to get it to launch outside of firefox
[17:18] <MrChrisDruif> Haha
[17:20] <AlanBell> it should work, but doesn't, and it is a bit pointless all round
[17:21] <AlanBell> firefox is part of ubuntu, everyone has it, pencil installs easily and automatically in firefox, you just have to run firefox, launch it from the tools menu and close firefox if you don't want to use firefox
[17:21] <MrChrisDruif> Well, for someone not using Firefox... ;-)
[17:22] <MrChrisDruif> You can close Firefox itself after launching?
[17:22] <AlanBell> nobody with ubuntu-desktop doesn't have firefox
[17:22] <AlanBell> yes, you can close firefox
[17:23] <MrChrisDruif> Ahh, great =)
[17:23] <MrChrisDruif> I "might" take a look at it later on
[17:24] <MrChrisDruif> But I'm shutting down, of to the ferry to the mainland (I'm on Texel atm, mainland being the rest of Holland ;-) )
[17:27] <AlanBell> ok
[17:43] <AlanBell> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/918
[17:49] <AlanBell> tgm4883: imnichol dmj726 ^^^
[17:49] <imnichol> Can you re-share that link?
[17:49] <AlanBell> huh?
[17:50] <imnichol> Oh sorry, thought the "^^^" was you trying to direct my attention to something that someone had said before I joined
[17:50] <AlanBell> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/918
[17:51] <AlanBell> sorry, I have joins and similar junk all directed to another window
[17:52] <imnichol> Wow
[17:52] <imnichol> Mark Shuttleworth actually acknowledged me :3
[17:52] <AlanBell> thought you might like it ;)
[17:52] <imnichol> Dude I'm kind of freaking out
[17:52] <imnichol> lol
[17:52] <imnichol> Hahah thanks for pointing that out
[17:53] <AlanBell> "a TV experience for Unity" is what he calls it
[17:54] <imnichol> It's all about the wording
[17:57] <imnichol> AlanBell: are you a Canonical employee?
[17:58] <AlanBell> no
[18:00] <imnichol> Ok.  I need a spreadsheet to remember who everyone is and what they think about things
[18:01] <imnichol> (I'm not either)
[18:41] <tgm4883> sweet
[18:43] <tgm4883> err
[18:43] <tgm4883> AlanBell, is that the list?
[18:43] <tgm4883> I thought there were far less essential items
[18:43] <tgm4883> oh nm, I see that the formatting got screwed up on for high priority
[18:45] <AlanBell> dunno
[18:45] <AlanBell> I don't think the feature list matters much tbh
[18:48] <tgm4883> AlanBell, where is the pencil stuff?
[18:49] <tgm4883> I wasn't around the last few days so I didn't bookmark it
[18:55] <imnichol> tgm4883: I think it's this http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Downloads/Application.aspx
[18:56] <imnichol> Is that correct AlanBell?
[18:59] <AlanBell> imnichol: yes, that should be fine https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-tv/msg00019.html
[18:59] <imnichol> Thanks.  I grabbed my link off irclogs.ubuntu.com
[19:00] <imnichol> But yours is better ;)
[19:05] <yo2boy_> :)
[19:59] <AlanBell> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/ubuntu-smart-tv-discussions-begin-to-warm-up/
[19:59] <AlanBell> erk
[20:03] <tgm4883> AlanBell, looks like I'm going to have to make some sketches as well, can't let you get all the press ;)
[20:05] <AlanBell> good!
[20:05] <imnichol> I've just got another week and a half till finals are over and I can actually be creative instead of just hanging out here
[20:06] <imnichol> If I allowed myself to get too involved with this project, I'd probably fail all my classes
[20:06] <imnichol> Till that time, AlanBell, you'll continue to be way more productive than I am
[20:09] <AlanBell> I am about done really
[20:09] <AlanBell> bit perplexed by the attention it is getting
[20:10] <imnichol> Hey, they're good designs
[20:11] <popey> 'ubuntu designer Alan bell'
[20:11] <popey> ho ho ho
[20:11] <AlanBell> yeah /o\
[20:11] <tgm4883> I've got to look into why pencil doesn't want to launch on my 64-bit oneiric install
[20:12] <tgm4883> other stuff to do first though
[20:12] <AlanBell> the clever bit if you can call it that was the ubuntu themed jquery export filter for pencil
[20:12] <AlanBell> tgm4883: I am using 64bit oneiric
[20:12] <tgm4883> AlanBell, are you using the standalone or FF version?
[20:13] <AlanBell> firefox version
[20:13] <tgm4883> ah
[20:13] <tgm4883> I'm using standalone
[20:13] <AlanBell> standalone doesn't work
[20:13] <AlanBell> there is no xulrunner
[20:13] <tgm4883> I see
[20:13] <tgm4883> that explains alot
[20:13]  * tgm4883 now has to figure out FF
[20:13] <AlanBell> all you do is click the thing in firefox and it works
[20:14] <popey> why does pencil not work standalone now?
[20:14] <AlanBell> http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Home.aspx big orange button
[20:14] <AlanBell> popey: we dropped xulrunner
[20:14] <AlanBell> and it isn't being maintained as well standalone
[20:14] <popey> ah
[20:15] <AlanBell> and we dropped xulrunner because mozilla have a 6 nanosecond release cycle
[20:15] <AlanBell> so click the big orange button, do what it says to install the extension, then from the tools menu launch pencil
[20:16] <AlanBell> then you can close firefox and you don't need to figure out how firefox works
[20:16] <AlanBell> once pencil is running it is a separate application, you just have to launch it from firefox
[20:17] <AlanBell> then in the pencil menus go to tools-manage export templates and from there you can install my ubuntu.zip export template
[20:17] <AlanBell> which is full of awesome
[20:17] <tgm4883> ok, pencil actually works now
[20:17] <tgm4883> although FF didn't want to know what an xpi file was
[20:18] <AlanBell> and download the BaseDesignFrame.ep and start making new pages with your designs on them
[20:18] <AlanBell> copying and pasting the TV from the first page
[20:38] <popey> clicking the orange button wants to download a file associated with archive viewer
[20:39] <AlanBell> um, save it somewhere I guess
[20:40] <popey> i have
[20:40] <popey> it dosn't open with ff
[20:40] <AlanBell> one sec, will try installing on another PC
[20:40] <popey> archive manager has the association
[20:40] <AlanBell> maybe some magic involved
[20:40] <popey> open with
[20:40] <popey> thats done it
[20:41] <AlanBell> ah right
[20:41] <AlanBell> I thought file associations were just broken on my PC
[20:42] <popey> where is the zip?
[20:42] <popey> haha just found http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/popey.png
[20:42] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unitytelly/pencilfiles/
[20:47]  * AlanBell upgrades from pencil 1.3.0 to 1.3.2
[21:09] <AlanBell> popey: got it working?
[21:18] <popey> i have imported your zip, not sure how to use it ☺
[21:20] <AlanBell> in the menu document-export document, single web page, all pages, select the template Ubuntu Theme and pick a destination folder.
[21:58] <MrChrisDruif> Good evening everyone; 'lo AlanBell
[22:00] <AlanBell> hi MrChrisDruif
[22:00] <MrChrisDruif> How's it going?
[22:00] <AlanBell> fine, I was *not* expecting my scribbles to be featured on OMGUbuntu
[22:01] <MrChrisDruif> Haha =)
[22:02] <MrChrisDruif> They have a tendency in doing that
[22:03] <AlanBell> it is an interesting suggestion having stuff wiki hosted btw
[22:04] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, takes the fuss out of setting it up somewhere else
[22:06] <MrChrisDruif> But I don't know if it's possible
[22:06] <imnichol> AlanBell: Have you put "ubuntu designer" on your resume yet? ;)
[22:06] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, indeed =P
[22:06] <AlanBell> oh, can't attach HTML files to the wiki and view them
[22:07] <AlanBell> I think the filters will strip out all the interesting stuff
[22:14] <MrChrisDruif> I don't know. The .pe files (?) create html files or something?
[22:14] <MrChrisDruif> I haven't played with it yet
[22:14] <AlanBell> .ep files
[22:15] <AlanBell> and the export filter I wrote creates html files, yes
[22:15] <MrChrisDruif> Alright
[22:15] <AlanBell> just static HTML and images that can be put anywhere
[22:28] <MrChrisDruif> Can't it be converted to moinmoin?
[22:29] <MrChrisDruif> Just curious...
[22:29] <AlanBell> then you have to upload each image one by one, and the transitions are not as smooth, and you don't get to see the storyboard of thumbnails
[22:32] <MrChrisDruif> But have we got an area where we can upload the html-files to?
[22:34] <AlanBell> everyone has their favourite
[22:35] <AlanBell> vps, home server, people.ubuntu.com whatever
[22:35] <AlanBell> or email me a .ep file and I will put it up
[22:35] <MrChrisDruif> I mean for public viewing =)
[22:37] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Designs
[22:38] <MrChrisDruif> But can we upload the html to that page?
[22:38] <AlanBell> no
[22:39] <AlanBell> I tried, it sets the contenttype so you end up downloading an html file, it won't serve attachments
[22:39] <MrChrisDruif> So what should we do for a solution?
[22:39] <AlanBell> solution to what problem?
[22:39] <MrChrisDruif> Well, the public viewing of ideas =)
[22:40] <AlanBell> I don't get the problem
[22:40] <AlanBell> put your stuff up somewhere, link to it from that page
[22:42] <MrChrisDruif> I (for instance) don't know how to put it up somewhere where everyone can access it, but I know about linking with wiki
[22:43] <MrChrisDruif> I even can think of the syntax needed to put those images on the wiki, maybe even with thumbnails
[22:43] <AlanBell> 22:35 < AlanBell> or email me a .ep file and I will put it up
[22:44] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, true =)
[22:45] <AlanBell> I am sure the data can be put in the wiki, with effort (attaching files one by one)
[22:46] <AlanBell> but what I am after is an efficient workflow for doing GUI design
[22:47] <AlanBell> if we end up making it hard to do then the design team will go use balsamiq or something and not collaborate with the community on design
[22:47] <MrChrisDruif> True, but I was thinking about the viewing part
[22:48] <MrChrisDruif> But if you're okay with setting stuff up for people like me =)
[22:49] <AlanBell> basically it is trivial to update a design with ssh access to some web space
[22:50] <AlanBell> which just needs something running ubuntu and apache, or an account somewhere like people.ubuntu.com or people.canonical.com
[22:50] <popey> people.canonical.com is restricted
[22:51] <popey> AIUI
[22:51] <popey> so p.u.c makes more sense
[22:51] <imnichol> Doesn't people.ubuntu.com also require approval?
[22:51] <imnichol> How easy is it to get access to p.u.c?
[22:51] <imnichol> Or \\people, since my workplace uses an AD domain ;)
[22:52] <popey> sorry, i wasnt clear
[22:52] <popey> people.u.c. is only available to upload by ubuntu members
[22:53] <popey> people.c.c is only available to upload by canonical employees
[22:53] <popey> people.u.c is _readable_ by anyone
[22:53] <popey> people.c.c is restricted read I believe? you have to login via launchpad to view files?
[22:53] <imnichol> OH ok
[22:54] <imnichol> Thanks for the clarification
[22:54] <imnichol> But how hard is it to become an Ubuntu member?
[22:55] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[22:56] <popey> basically requires a sustained and significant contribution to the project
[22:56] <imnichol> I'm just curious what "sustained and significant" means
[22:57] <popey> in a nutshell, some months of doing 'stuff' valued by the project
[22:57] <imnichol> So a pretty vague definition?
[22:57] <popey> no, it's quite well defined ☺
[22:57] <MrChrisDruif> Yup, that Ubuntu Membership for ya =)
[22:57] <imnichol> hahah
[22:58]  * popey has been on the board who approves members
[22:58] <popey> for 2 years
[22:58] <imnichol> Nice.  Congrats dude
[22:58] <imnichol> Aren't you a mod as well?
[22:59] <popey> I'm not on the board anymore ☺
[22:59] <imnichol> Oh ok
[22:59] <MrChrisDruif> There are 3 boards if I'm not mistaken
[22:59] <popey> there are
[23:00] <imnichol> Oh, by the way, what's the code to actually make an emoticon?
[23:01] <imnichol> I see that popey is doing it a lot, but MrChris and I don't seem to have ours turn into the picture
[23:01] <MrChrisDruif> It's some AltGr combo I think
[23:01] <popey> I have an alias in my irc client that does it
[23:02] <MrChrisDruif> Ahh, that *would* be awesome
[23:03] <AlanBell> http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/oneiric.jpg
[23:03] <AlanBell> can people see that?
[23:03] <MrChrisDruif> I can
[23:03]  * AlanBell sees no p.c.c auth requirement
[23:03] <MrChrisDruif> Haha
[23:04] <imnichol> Ah I see
[23:04] <imnichol> Yeah I see it
[23:05] <AlanBell> popey: probably chmod o+r is needed
[23:05] <MrChrisDruif> AlanBell; good going on the wiki pages I see =)
[23:06] <popey> ah my bad AlanBell I'm thinking of another machine at canonical
[23:06] <AlanBell> ok, no problem
[23:15] <MrChrisDruif> I'll have my hand at that Pencil/Storyboard bogus. What did you guys (or at least AlanBell ) think about the suggestions for software on OMG?
[23:17] <AlanBell> http://media-explorer.org/ that one?
[23:19] <AlanBell> I have no opinion really
[23:52] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, that was one. The others we've known about (xbmc, mythtv)