[14:28] <scott-upstairs> knome, you appear to be away, but when you get back can you answer a few questions about the website?
[14:28] <scott-upstairs> http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/download/
[14:29] <scott-upstairs> the contrast between the buttons, the text inside the buttons, and the background colours makes difficult reading, can this be changed?
[14:29] <scott-upstairs> also, the buttons are linking directly to the website by default, is there a way to have these buttons link to external URL's ?
[14:30] <knome> sure
[14:30] <knome> hmm, yeah
[14:38] <scott-upstairs> oh hi, knome
[14:38] <scott-upstairs> i hope i didn't wake you or keep you up?
[14:39] <scott-upstairs> eh
[14:39] <scott-upstairs> that can't be good
[14:45] <knome> ScottL, is the buttons better now?
[14:45] <knome> *are
[14:46] <knome> ScottL, now just use urle=http://external.uri/
[14:46] <knome> instead of url=download/
[14:47] <knome> i figured you *usually* want the local uris
[14:47] <scott-upstairs> weeee!  much better!  thank you
[14:47] <scott-upstairs> knome, yes, i imagine that most times it would be local urls, but the download page is different ;)
[14:47] <knome> yup
[14:50] <scott-upstairs> knome, how difficult would it be to add a column on the right to include useful links to such things as iso image explanations, tutorial on how to burn iso iamges, etc?
[14:50] <scott-upstairs> if it isn't stupid simple then i'll link them at the bottom
[14:51] <knome> you mean a column in the content area, or in the sidebar??
[14:51] <knome> it's not completely easy
[14:51] <scott-upstairs> probably in the sidebar
[14:51] <knome> hmm
[14:51] <scott-upstairs> oh, then don't worry about it then
[14:51] <knome> okay
[14:51] <scott-upstairs> i've got text on the top that says to look for the help section below
[14:51] <scott-upstairs> that should suffice
[14:53] <knome> oki
[14:56] <scott-upstairs> thank you knome, you absolutely rock ;)
[14:58] <knome> np
[15:09] <holstein> so, i guess thats 2 votes for arandr
[15:14] <scott-upstairs> i read len's post on the list
[15:14] <scott-upstairs> i don't think we need to beat this to death, just find something that works for a couple of common use cases and we move on ;)
[15:14] <scott-upstairs> holstein, ^^^
[15:14] <holstein> yup
[15:14] <scott-upstairs> documenting the two use cases along with instructions would be helpful
[15:15]  * scott-upstairs is working on the website now
[15:15] <holstein> but, he did test, and we both agree on arandr
[15:15] <holstein> he did some extensive tests it seems
[15:23] <scott-upstairs> holstein, oh, i know, i'm just saying that others don't need to do extensive testing as well and then put it for debate or committee decision
[15:23] <scott-upstairs> let's just move on now since we have a decision
[15:24] <scott-upstairs> holstein, do you think you can len can make a wiki page?  i'd be happy to help with formatting if you want ;)
[15:24] <holstein> well, we have a DVD, so we dont need to worry with size like the xubuntu folk
[15:24] <scott-upstairs> i can ask in the email thread to get you both on the same page?
[15:25] <holstein> scott-upstairs: since we cant delete them easily, maybe we should look for any current dual-head documentation
[15:25] <holstein> i feel like len and I can make that happen
[15:26] <scott-upstairs> holstein, good idea about looking for other documentation
[15:26] <scott-upstairs> you might even check the blueprint and see if they have documentation you can steal ;)
[15:26] <holstein> yup
[15:41] <scott-upstairs> hey knome, i'm having trouble making text bold, i'm using the <strong> tag but it isn't appearing for me in firefox.  any suggestions?
[15:41] <scott-upstairs> maybe i'll use red instead to highlight it
[15:41] <knome> where do you use that?
[15:42] <knome> should work now
[15:43] <scott-upstairs> on the download page, there is a line that says '<strong> this is strong!</strong>
[15:43] <knome> refresh
[15:43] <scott-upstairs> http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/download/
[15:43] <scott-upstairs> refreshing the page now
[15:43] <scott-upstairs> yay!  thanks again knome
[15:43] <knome> np
[15:43] <knome> my bad
[15:43] <knome> :P
[15:43] <scott-upstairs> if i ever met you in person, i owe you several beers, my friend!
[15:43] <knome> thanks :)
[15:44] <knome> that's appreciated
[15:44] <knome> (not by my wife though, people owe me gallons of beer already :P)
[15:46] <knome> did you come to any conclusion with the "featured" area?
[15:47] <scott-upstairs> knome, i'm sorry that i don't remember what conclusion i was to arrive at, can you refresh my memory?
[15:48] <scott-upstairs> my plan was to get the download page relatively square away, then move to the slide show and feature tour pages this morning
[15:48] <scott-upstairs> (although i was only going to add topic names and bullet points and links to the slide show/feature tour pages today)
[15:48] <knome> what to do with it. should the buttons be moved to the right hand side on the frontpage?
[15:48] <knome> what about the background images?
[15:48] <scott-upstairs> oh, oh, yes, i remember now
[15:48] <knome> etc...
[15:49] <scott-upstairs> i think we should leave it as is
[15:50] <scott-upstairs> i believe this will make it much, much easier to develop and complete from what you have described
[15:50] <scott-upstairs> knome, i do haver another question for you, is there an easy way to make columsn with tags (something similar to <span>) ?
[15:51] <scott-upstairs> or is there another way i can manually make text or buttons align vertically?
[15:53] <scott-upstairs> "i think we should leave it as is" means, i think using background images is the preferred direction because it looks very, very nice, which means that the buttons should probably stay on the left side to avoid interferring with the images
[15:53]  * scott-upstairs realized i wasn't very clear or specific
[15:54] <scott-upstairs> i suppose the question still remains if the buttons should only be on the front page or not (but that is to be resolved and implemented by scott-upstairs)
[15:56] <knome> scott-upstairs, yeah, we could add some css classes to make column-like things possible
[15:57] <scott-upstairs> i'm trying a table tag now :)
[15:57] <scott-upstairs> but i think the column would look better, i'll google it in a minute
[15:58] <knome> well, just tell me if you need those css classes
[15:58] <knome> and what width should they be
[16:12] <scott-upstairs> knome, could you enable cellspacing please?
[16:12]  * scott-upstairs presumes it is turned off or disabled
[16:13] <knome> can you link me to the page where you're having problems
[16:14] <scott-upstairs> http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/download/
[16:14] <knome> where exactly? :)
[16:15] <scott-upstairs> knome, let me try another approach (which may accomplish what i originally wanted)
[16:15] <knome> there's some padding now for td's anyway
[16:15] <knome> note that the buttons break if you go too narrow
[16:16] <knome> == you probably want to make the link titles shorter
[16:16] <scott-upstairs> i got it :)
[16:17] <knome> i think "11.04, 32-bit" might just work
[16:17] <scott-upstairs> and used much less and much cleaner tags this way too 
[16:17] <scott-upstairs> yeah, you are right
[16:17] <scott-upstairs> i tend to work pretty detailed first then simplify after i get the form more or less right
[16:17] <knome> or just "32-bit", if you are specifying the release in a header
[16:18] <knome> mm-hmm
[16:18]  * knome stops nagging
[16:18] <knome> brb
[16:24] <scott-upstairs> hehe, knome, i appreciate your "nagging" :)
[16:24] <scott-upstairs> i think it yields a better product (which is what is important)
[16:24] <scott-upstairs> brb too, going downstairs with family for a bit
[17:20]  * scott-upstairs just now sees the 'preview changes' button and slams head on table *thwack*
[17:21] <scott-upstairs> *sigh* i had been updating the page and the 'view page' again and again and again and again (ad naseum)
[17:21] <knome> lol
[17:21] <knome> you can just refresh the page
[17:21] <scott-upstairs> i didn't like it because i knew it created another revision version
[17:21] <knome> without clicking "view"
[17:22] <scott-upstairs> sometimes i'm slow, but i _do_ learn :P
[17:22] <knome> heh
[17:23] <knome> i usually just save the page and refresh it in other window
[17:36] <astraljava> No meeting?
[17:36] <knome> err, nope
[17:36] <astraljava> I'm late again, yeah I know, but still.
[17:39] <scott-upstairs> arghh!  i forgot the meeting too :/
[17:39] <scott-upstairs> crap
[17:39] <scott-upstairs> http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/download/
[17:39] <scott-upstairs> it's as good as i'm going to get at the moment and i am very open to comments
[17:39] <knome> scott-upstairs, i'll get back to you later today :)
[17:40] <scott-upstairs> knome, no problem, that wasn't directly specifically at you but i'm glad for your input
[17:41] <knome> oki :)
[17:44] <scott-upstairs> knome, can the 'front tabs' or 'slide show' be automated?  and should it?
[17:45] <scott-upstairs> the second question was a philosophical question
[17:45] <shnatsel> scott-upstairs: "current recommended" is probably added by C.O.
[17:45] <knome> yes, (philosophical answer then: but i'm not sure if it should, because the first "tab" is really the most important)
[17:46] <shnatsel> it's overly complicated and confusing
[17:46] <shnatsel> direct links should be located over torrent links
[17:46] <shnatsel> "how do I open .torrent" has quite some ranks in Google search
[17:47] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel, hmmm, wanted to make sure people understand that the currently recommended isn't necessarily the 'latest' one
[17:47] <knome> scott-upstairs, might as well give feedback now...
[17:47] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel, there is a FAQ in the bottom about torrents, maybe i should link down there to it from the tight
[17:47] <scott-upstairs> err. top
[17:47] <knome> scott-upstairs, try to make the page as narrow as possible.
[17:47] <knome> scott-upstairs, the buttons break
[17:47] <knome> scott-upstairs, this is why i propose:
[17:47] <knome> scott-upstairs, change "Torrent Links" to "Torrents"
[17:47] <shnatsel> buttons should have equal width
[17:48] <shnatsel> "direct image" > "direct download"
[17:48] <knome> scott-upstairs, change "Direct Image Links" to ".iso" or sth
[17:48] <knome> scott-upstairs, remove "Torrent" and "ISO Image" from buttons
[17:48] <knome> scott-upstairs, that should enable enough width for the buttons
[17:48] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel, are you saying that the direct links should come before the torrent links?  i would like to gently guide users to use torrents before direct
[17:49] <scott-upstairs> hehe, you guys are typing way too fast for me to keep up :P
[17:49] <knome> sorry :'<
[17:49] <shnatsel> scott-upstairs: yeah I know torrents have checksumming etc, but direct links should come first.
[17:49] <scott-upstairs> hehe, it's okay
[17:49] <knome> maybe tell the user that torrent is preferred if they know how to download them
[17:49] <scott-upstairs> knome, ^^^
[17:49] <shnatsel> scott-upstairs: also, clicking the button should automatically direct you to section called "while Ubuntu Studio is downloading, learn how to install it"
[17:50] <shnatsel> or something like that
[17:50] <shnatsel> LTS is confusing
[17:50] <shnatsel> expand it to Long Term Support
[17:50] <shnatsel> Try using these headers:
[17:50] <shnatsel> Regular release
[17:51] <shnatsel> Long Term Support release
[17:51] <shnatsel> Development release (red instead of blue, or somehow scary or less visible than others)
[17:52] <knome> lol
[17:55] <scott-upstairs> okay, picking up most of that
[17:55] <scott-upstairs> but shnatsel you list regular, lts, and development as releases
[17:55] <scott-upstairs> there really isn't three types of release
[17:56] <scott-upstairs> and i wanted this to be viewed from the perspective of someone not currently using linux or ubuntu
[17:56] <knome> development release == precise to be exact
[17:56] <scott-upstairs> knome, that is true
[17:56] <knome> i'd recommend using "normal" and "LTS"
[17:56] <scott-upstairs> but we will not be linking to that from this page though
[17:56] <knome> or just drop "normal"
[17:56] <knome> yeah.
[17:57] <knome> "Current Release" and "Current Long Term Support Release"
[17:57] <scott-upstairs> okay, i can do that
[17:57] <knome> don't talk about development if you aren't talking about development :))
[18:00] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel> scott-upstairs: also, clicking the button should automatically direct you to section called "while Ubuntu Studio is downloading, learn how to install it"
[18:00] <scott-upstairs> i am unsure how to accomplish this
[18:01] <shnatsel> scott-upstairs: use a separate "download" page, or make a javascripted button that falls back to usual link in <noscript>
[18:01] <shnatsel> scott-upstairs: possibilities are endless
[18:03] <knome> buttons better now?
[18:09] <knome> i need to run soon
[18:09] <knome> so don't wonder if i stop replying
[18:09] <knome> X)
[18:33] <shnatsel> still overly complicated
[18:33] <shnatsel> look at http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/download and http://elementaryos.org/downloads
[20:43] <ScottL> shnatsel, i will look at those later, right now outside with family putting up christmas decorations
[20:43] <ScottL> oh, and i forgot to the people that i ordered my canon t2i yesterday :)  i'm pretty freaking excited about that
[20:45] <shnatsel> ScottL: congratz!
[20:57] <ScottL> :)  it's a big step into what i want to do (both with ubuntu studio and personally)
[21:07] <Nightraven> hey guys, as recently noticed i have got some pictures i would like to submit/suggest as wallpaper. I have just subscribed to the devel mailinglist how shall i submit the images? as attachement or link to a hosting site? :)
[21:08] <shnatsel> Nightraven: AFAIK links to hosting sites are preferred.
[21:33] <Nightraven> shnatsel: ok thx, mail sent :)
[21:34] <shnatsel> Nightraven: wow, they look nice!
[21:34] <Nightraven> thx :)
[21:40] <stochastic> Hey everyone, sorry I forgot about the meeting and slept in