[00:27]  * MrChrisDruif is off to bed
[00:27] <MrChrisDruif> TTYL
[08:03] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unitytelly/Will%20Moorhead/ yay, someone used the template
[10:40] <MrChrisDruif> Good morning everyone
[11:03] <MrChrisDruif> I'll try to contact Ben or Joey from OMG to update the post about Ubuntu TV, seeing everyone thinks we want to create something new. It's very tiresome to tell every single commenter that we probably be using something existing...
[11:07] <AlanBell> don't worry about it
[11:07] <AlanBell> the commenters don't read the article anyway
[11:07] <AlanBell> they just read the headline, look at the picture and vent their anger in the comments
[11:10] <AlanBell> "This is purely business from canonicals side. They want to sell movies and music from ubuntu one. That is ok, but don't use the community for such commercial projects. "
[11:10] <AlanBell> do you feel used?
[11:11]  * AlanBell suspects the person who left that comment wasn't going to contribute anything of value anyway
[11:11] <MrChrisDruif> AlanBell; that latest link doesn't work
[11:11] <AlanBell> what link?
[11:12] <MrChrisDruif> For Will Moorhead's storyboard
[11:12] <AlanBell> where is the link that doesn't work?
[11:13] <MrChrisDruif> Ahh wait, it's just me =)
[11:13] <MrChrisDruif> I clicked the link in the mail
[11:13] <MrChrisDruif> Try added _ or %20 in links so they are continuous
[11:17] <AlanBell> what mail?
[11:17] <AlanBell> oooh, you subscribed to the wiki page
[11:17] <AlanBell> right, the link on the wiki page is fine, but your mail client linkifying it might get confused
[11:20] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, it did. I changed them by adding a space before the | otherwise the |sometext also gets added to the link, braking it again =)
[11:21] <MrChrisDruif> Could we have some kind of comment area on the storyboard pages? Then I could write down my thoughts about design decisions on the relevant page =)
[11:23] <AlanBell> possibly
[11:23] <MrChrisDruif> Would be awesome =)
[11:24] <MrChrisDruif> Or at least very handy
[11:25] <nandersson> Hi, Is this Ubuntu Tv a Canonical sponsored/driven project or is it mainly driven  of non-Canonical developers?
[11:26] <AlanBell> nandersson: bit of a mix
[11:26] <AlanBell> why?
[11:27] <nandersson> Im going to write a thing about it on swedish TechWorld, nothing big, just a small article
[11:27] <AlanBell> cool
[11:27] <nandersson> Does the idea originate from Canonical?
[11:27] <MrChrisDruif> Yup
[11:28] <AlanBell> nandersson: from Mark Shuttleworth at UDS
[11:28] <MrChrisDruif> Mark himself told about it in his keynote speech, last UDS
[11:28] <nandersson> Ok, that is cool. Then it is anchored with Canonical. I read his recent blog post about it.
[11:29] <nandersson> "his" as in Mark Shuttleworth
[11:30] <nandersson> I saw that Mark referred to your designs AlanBell
[11:30] <AlanBell> yeah, which was funny
[11:31] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, AlanBell is our main designer ;-) JK
[11:31] <MrChrisDruif> No, but seriously, he just put up a few design template were the rest of us can play with =)
[11:32] <nandersson> yeah, I understand that
[11:32] <AlanBell> nandersson: what I was actually doing was developing a framework for doing storyboarding, so making a template on which people could draw designs
[11:32] <nandersson> btw. Are you going to write this stuff with Qt? Unity is based on gtk+ today right?
[11:32] <nandersson> I read the thing about QML
[11:32] <AlanBell> I flung a few simple sketches on it to explain how to use the storyboarding framework, I didn't expect anyone to pay any attention to them as designs :)
[11:33] <nandersson> AlanBell, well you have to start somewhere :)
[11:33] <AlanBell> Unity is based on Compiz and the Nux framework which is GTKish and there is also the unity2d implementation which is based on Qt
[11:33] <MrChrisDruif> Indeed
[11:33] <AlanBell> I am not quite sure how Qt and QML relate
[11:33] <MrChrisDruif> But we are only in the conceptual fase at the moment
[11:34] <MrChrisDruif> Thinking about HOW it should LOOK/FEEL, not going into the technical bit of it
[11:34] <nandersson> Ah, so Unity2d is based on Qt. I didn't knew that. That is cool.
[11:34] <MrChrisDruif> We haven't decided what software we could build our solution on
[11:34] <AlanBell> it could be implemented as a Qt thing, or as an xbmc theme, or as an HTML5 page or something completely different
[11:35] <nandersson> QML is a Javascript markup language for writing GUI quick and easy.
[11:35] <nandersson> ...with bindings to Qt as I've understood it.
[11:36] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, great I guess =)
[11:41]  * AlanBell has a thought on how to add comments to the designs
[11:42] <MrChrisDruif> Yes?
[11:45] <AlanBell> link in a pad.ubuntu.com page for each one in an iframe
[11:46] <MrChrisDruif> Ahh, great =)
[11:53] <nandersson> Are there any plans to cooperate with existing channels? Like these guys do for example. http://www.livestation.com/
[11:53] <AlanBell> no plans
[11:53] <AlanBell> which doesn't mean there are plans not to do so, it means there are no plans
[11:53] <AlanBell> that we know about
[11:54] <nandersson> so the TV in Ubuntu TV is more like a media center than a set top box for Television?
[11:55] <AlanBell> I think set top box, or OEM integrated into a TV are possible scenarios
[11:58] <MrChrisDruif> Indeed, but we shouldn't rule out media center pc's as well
[11:58] <AlanBell> what is the difference between a media centre and a set top box?
[11:59] <MrChrisDruif> Well, a set top box uses hardware mostly not found in standard computer, where a media center is a dedicated computer but with standard computer hardware
[12:08] <nandersson> well, a set top box you can connect to your cable tv network.
[12:09] <nandersson> there are Linux-projects targeting that as well. V4L (Video 4 Linux) is (was?) one.
[12:09] <nandersson> You have (had?) devices you could connect to USB to get your computer to work as a tv, with all your channels. Hauppage was one hw-supplier.
[12:14] <AlanBell> V4L is a fairly low level spec for video devices
[12:15] <AlanBell> I don't think there will be much difference between a media centre and what is in a TV by 14.04
[12:16] <MrChrisDruif> Let's hope so =)
[12:16] <MrChrisDruif> But I think TV's will sooner go with ARM then with x86/x86_64 processors
[12:17]  * MrChrisDruif is listening to Karl Jenkins - Hymn Before Action [The Armed Man - A Mass For Peace] (1:30/2:39)
[12:20] <MrChrisDruif> I think they are already using ARM
[12:23] <AlanBell> sure, and I think that will be the chip that you would put in a media centre too
[12:23] <nandersson> Is there a link to the project? Do you host it on Launchpad?
[12:24] <nandersson> sorry
[12:24] <nandersson> I see it in the IRC-channel :)
[12:27] <MrChrisDruif> In the topic, yes =)
[13:10] <willcooke> Hi guys, AlanBell you're famous! XD
[13:19] <MrChrisDruif> Haha, he was already =)
[13:41]  * popey tickles ogra_ 
[13:41] <ogra_> geez, without sabdfls blogpost i wouldnt have known about this channel
[13:42] <ogra_> we need to make more noise about this !
[13:42] <AlanBell> he has his uses :)
[13:42] <ogra_> (and hi popey :) )
[13:42] <ogra_> at times, yep :)
[13:43] <MrChrisDruif> Indeed
[13:44]  * MrChrisDruif will be back in a bit *groceries*
[14:14] <willcooke> hey ogra_
[14:14] <ogra_> hey willcooke :)
[14:16] <willcooke> Good to see more people finding their way here.  ogra_ you're right though, we should make a bit more noise about this - and I'm hatching a plan right now.
[14:16] <willcooke> Just waiting for DNS to update ;)
[14:16] <ogra_> :)
[14:16] <seif> hey guys
[14:16] <ogra_> good plan
[14:16] <willcooke> hi seif
[14:17] <seif> did u have a look at http://media-explorer.org/
[14:17] <AlanBell> willcooke: see there are two storyboards now https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Designs
[14:31] <willcooke> AlanBell, oh wow!
[14:31] <willcooke> Awesome!
[14:32] <AlanBell> the second one was from someone via the OMGUbuntu article
[14:32] <AlanBell> he emailed me the .ep file last night and I put it up
[14:43]  * willcooke check omg
[14:43] <willcooke> checks
[15:08] <MrChrisDruif> willcooke; http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/ubuntu-smart-tv-discussions-begin-to-warm-up/
[15:25] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha ogra_ , so you found us through Mark?
[15:25] <MrChrisDruif> willcooke; what is your plan?
[15:30] <willcooke> otp - brb
[15:31] <ogra_> MrChrisDruif, yeah :)
[15:32] <ogra_> and finding the ML wasnt trvial either ... someone should post some additional stuff on the canonical blog or so
[15:33] <MrChrisDruif> We've got a canonical blog? =P
[15:34] <MrChrisDruif> I practically only use omgubuntu as a source of information
[15:35] <MrChrisDruif> They do the scouring(?) for me =)
[15:39] <popey> http://design.canonical.com/2011/11/ubuntu-phone-tablet-and-tv-discussion-opened/
[15:39] <popey> thats where it was originally announced.
[15:39] <AlanBell> plus the keynote at UDS
[15:40] <Hydrar> Does anyone know what hardware is in current TV's with build-in DVR's though?(I came here from phoronix via Mark's blog)
[15:41] <MrChrisDruif> Haha
[15:41] <ogra_> Hydrar, usually MIPS based platforms, but i heard that sony also did some arm based ones
[15:41] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha Hydrar
[15:41] <Hydrar> Hey MrChrisDruif
[15:42] <MrChrisDruif> How's it going?
[15:42] <Hydrar> And ogra_: Intersting
[15:42] <Hydrar> Just came in here to check on if anyone actually *tried* modding in some ubuntu in TV's yet, or if it was just a development for shipping with new ones
[15:42] <ogra_> http://www.fxitech.com/products/ might be very intresting as a developer platform
[15:42] <ogra_> but its still in pre-production
[15:43] <ogra_> (they support ubuntu they claim)
[15:43] <MrChrisDruif> I think those manufacturers start to realize that using normal computer/tablet hardware in tv might not be stupid
[15:43] <MrChrisDruif> Seeing that developers don't want to learn something new again, and again...
[15:43] <ogra_> well, you dont want a fan in your tv
[15:44] <ogra_> which rules out most intels
[15:45]  * AlanBell runs atoms fanless
[15:45] <Hydrar> ARM is the way to go for TV's really
[15:45] <MrChrisDruif> ogra_; arm doesn't require fans to run afaik
[15:45] <AlanBell> but yeah, ARM is more likely
[15:45] <ogra_> MrChrisDruif, yep
[15:45] <MrChrisDruif> Not on my smartphone at least =P
[15:45] <ogra_> hehe
[15:46] <dmj726> not to discourage ARM, since I think it's a good choice, but TVs do produce considerable heat.
[15:46] <Hydrar> Only downside I see with ARM is the lack of proper open source drivers for driving display
[15:47] <dmj726> so simple power requirements aren't 100% indicative of non-usability of Intel hardware
[15:47] <ogra_> well, an intel would add more heat
[15:47] <Hydrar> What ogra said
[15:47] <dmj726> That said, ARM would definitely have huge advantage in standby mode
[15:48] <Hydrar> Power usage is one of the selling points of TV's these days it seems
[15:48] <ogra_> that and it also has a very good linux standing
[15:49] <ogra_> if you look at MIPS, you have some embedded distros, debian and no ubuntu support at all yet ... bringing up a full arch port isnt trivial and costly
[15:49] <ogra_> so for ubuntu there is only PPC, ARM and x86
[15:49] <dmj726> ARM will also be improving significantly performancewise per core per clock over the next couple years.
[15:50] <ogra_> it already copes fine with atom
[15:50]  * ogra_ is currently typing this on an arm netbook
[15:52] <dmj726> The only cause for concern with ARM *at the present moment* would be for encoding HD content as it's broadcast, which I'm not sure either it or atom can do yet.
[15:52] <Hydrar> Why encode HD content?
[15:52] <dmj726> PVR capability
[15:52] <ogra_> ??
[15:52] <ogra_> you just compress and store it
[15:52] <Hydrar> Oh yeah, I mixed it up with old DTV
[15:52] <ogra_> or do you expect us to broadcast from the PVR
[15:53] <dmj726> Lots of people like to time shift their TV watching
[15:53] <Hydrar> HDMI input would be raw, so the ARM would need to recompress it again
[15:53] <dmj726> ogra_: encoding is the compression process, no?
[15:53] <ogra_> oh, i forgot about timeshift
[15:53] <Hydrar> "Traditional" DTV that's builtin to TV's actually gets fed with a precompressed mpeg2 stream, which it can just dump to disk
[15:53] <Hydrar> At least, the one I have does
[15:53] <dmj726> Hydrar: That might be okay for broadcast
[15:54] <AlanBell> much more sensible to store the stream
[15:54] <dmj726> would be awesome if one could record HDMI input though
[15:54] <dmj726> would be great for doing with my DSLR
[15:55] <Hydrar> Yeah
[15:55] <Hydrar> Still, ARM is a pretty powerful platform as far as I know, doesn't it do more per clock than x86_64 in general anyway?
[15:56] <ogra_> yep
[16:02] <MrChrisDruif> Don't forget, the expected time of distribution for this will be around 14.04...TWO years time ;-)
[16:03] <ogra_> yep, and i know the arm roadmap :)
[16:03] <MrChrisDruif> I haven't memorized it ;-)
[16:10] <dmj726> The ARM roadmap is pretty agressive
[16:10] <ogra_> yep
[16:12] <tgm4883> MrChrisDruif, by 14.04
[16:12] <tgm4883> which probably means 18-24 months from now
[16:13] <dmj726> Of course for actual devices on the market shave a year off that for processor availability.
[16:13] <MrChrisDruif> 24 is how many years?
[16:13] <dmj726> 24 months is 2 years
[16:13] <tgm4883> sorry I wasn't actually disagreeing with you
[16:14] <MrChrisDruif> Haha =D
[16:14] <tgm4883> It was more of a clarification/added data
[18:29] <MrChrisDruif> For later reading: http://princessleia.com/images/journalpics/012011/samsung_tv_osl.jpg
[20:05]  * MrChrisDruif is back
[20:13] <MrChrisDruif> AlanBell; did you get back to the latest mail on the ubuntu-tv mailing-list?
[20:18] <AlanBell> have now
[20:19] <MrChrisDruif> Great =)
[20:19] <MrChrisDruif> Check
[20:21] <tgm4883> I am not a fan of the latest idea email
[20:35] <MrChrisDruif> tgm4883; you too? =)
[20:35] <MrChrisDruif> Making things hard when they should be simple?
[20:35] <tgm4883> MrChrisDruif, exactly
[20:35] <tgm4883> overengineering things
[20:36] <MrChrisDruif> =D
[20:36] <tgm4883> actually, i'm not even sure that is considered overengineering something. That is just not in the scope
[20:37] <MrChrisDruif> Well....yes and no. I haven't read it precisely (haha, funny seeing coming release) but it has to do with TV and controlling etc...
[20:39] <MrChrisDruif> Btw, 2) twice ^_^
[21:04] <AlanBell> I don't think we should be making decisions yet, just capturing ideas
[21:06] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, but still we can "discuss" these ideas ;-)
[21:08] <AlanBell> yes, certainly
[21:09] <Guus-> AlanBell: i have this cool idea for ubuntu-tv, take nokia n9 meego UI and make the middle screen regular television, one remote button pops up the applications
[21:11] <AlanBell> awesome, sketch it up for us!
[21:11]  * AlanBell has no idea what a nokia n9 meego UI looks like
[21:12] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Designs
[21:12] <AlanBell> and how to get pencil all set up for sketching your plans https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Designs/Pencil
[21:22] <AlanBell> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/28/ubuntu_tv/ !!!!
[21:33] <MrChrisDruif> Nice =)
[21:34] <MrChrisDruif> And again our grant-designer AlanBell in full coverage =P
[21:37] <MrChrisDruif> A lot of positive feedback news about our little team it seems =)
[21:37] <AlanBell> scary stuff
[21:38] <AlanBell> just been leaving a couple of comments on the article
[21:38] <MrChrisDruif> Seeing we only have been going at it for 2 weeks or something?
[21:38] <AlanBell> "10 inch" user interface isn't quite right
[21:38] <MrChrisDruif> Haha, 10 feet
[21:38] <AlanBell> it is a 3m user interface!!
[21:38] <AlanBell> silly mericans
[21:39] <MrChrisDruif> We used the right notation afaik with 10' not 10"
[21:41] <AlanBell> yeah, that is just almost unknown in the UK
[21:41] <MrChrisDruif> Even worse in Holland ;-)
[21:42] <AlanBell> only old people and people who work with Americans know about ' and "
[21:42] <AlanBell> and I only get them the right way round based on context
[21:44] <MrChrisDruif> Are you calling me old? =P I'm only 24 =D
[21:51] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, mailing-list already starts to explode =)
[21:56] <AlanBell> wow
[21:58] <imnichol> Hahah
[21:58] <imnichol> I did my part to spam you all
[22:01] <imnichol> Although we should all remember to be polite
[22:02] <MrChrisDruif> Haha, I also do my best to be a catalyst (freenode one)
[22:07] <imnichol> Wow it's really taking off
[22:07] <MrChrisDruif> Haha, yes
[22:07] <MrChrisDruif> I'll have a read again tomorrow afternoon
[22:08] <MrChrisDruif> I should finish what I'm doing and go to bed
[22:30] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, off to bed
[23:50] <imnichol> So, wow, that's a lot of words on the listserv
[23:54] <dmj726> wrt that Register Article, Linux actually powers dozens of Sony TVs.  The source code for said is published in a corner of their website per GPL requirements.
[23:59] <dmj726> imnichol: that is a lot