/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/29/#ubuntu-tv.txt

dmj726I'll have to get on that later with more discussion of networked apps I think00:00
imnicholYeah00:01
imnicholI remember a discussion that I think had a collective sort of agreement that just vnc-ing into the tv was a bad idea for bandwidth reasons, but that the option might be useful for other stuff00:02
dmj726https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg00006.html00:03
dmj726that whole thread I think00:03
dmj726also some stuff in irc00:03
imnicholYeah the IRC stuff was what I was thinking of00:04
imnicholSo I don't know about anyone else, but I've kind of been operating on the assumption that Canonical would be very involved in actually bringing UbuntuTV/Tablet/Phones to market.00:07
imnicholBut from the mailing list, I get the feeling that not everyone agrees00:09
dmj726imnichol: I hope they jump in at some point soon00:19
imnicholOk, here's my thing: If we just used Unity, Canonical could create some "official", "supported", "stable" apps to do all the functionality that we've been talking about00:20
imnicholAnd then people could write their own(using quickly or something?) to extend the functionality00:20
tgm4883I still don't like Unity for the TV00:20
tgm4883maybe a heavily modified Unity, but then whats the point00:21
imnicholI think Unity is already a pretty effective interface for a television, so we just need applications that give us the functionality of a tv tuner00:21
imnicholtgm4883: I get the feeling that you and I will disagree for eternity about this ;)00:21
imnicholAfter the bomb gets dropped, the only life on earth are the cockroaches, and then you and I sitting at our computers arguing00:22
tgm4883imnichol, I would agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong ;)00:22
imnicholTouche00:22
imnicholOf course this is my personal opinion, but I think that quickly would be a very effective tool for writing programs for an ubuntu-tv00:23
tgm4883so I think the basis of the argument was wasted space right? (asside from Unity being a bit resource intensive)00:23
imnicholI think so, but no one has ever exactly explained what space is wasted with unity00:24
imnichol(explained to me at least)00:24
tgm4883Everything beyond the launcher?00:24
tgm4883Everything beyond the lense00:24
imnicholWhat do you mean by beyond?00:24
imnicholBecause I love Unity since it gives me so much screen realestate when I'm working00:25
tgm4883ok, so I hit the super key right now, a lense pops up and uses the top left 25% of my screen00:25
tgm4883the other 75% is wasted00:25
tgm4883Granted, I've only been using Unity for a few weeks00:25
imnicholOh ok00:26
imnicholI suddenly get it00:26
imnicholYeah, I agree to a point00:26
imnicholBut I think that the ability to continue watching the program that's currently open is a large enough benefit00:26
tgm4883I'm not 100% sure why that would happen on a desktop (there has to be a reason right?) but I'm 100% sure that is bad on a TV00:26
imnicholI"ll give you an example00:27
imnicholI'm using xchat here on my 11.10 laptop00:27
tgm4883nobody wants to bring up the unity menu on a tv while watching a show00:27
tgm4883ok continue00:27
imnicholI want to search for a file, while still watching to see if anyone posts something new00:27
imnicholActually I disagree there with you00:27
tgm4883I'll agree for the desktop usage00:27
tgm4883show me why I want that on a TV00:28
tgm4883also, I get to go home in 2 minutes00:28
imnicholCongrats, I got home 2 hours ago thanks to CST00:28
imnicholOne of the benefits of a fly-over state00:28
imnicholI'll be quick then:00:28
imnicholYou're watching football but you want to do something with the unity menu00:29
tgm4883What do I want to do? I mean, I'm watching football, there isn't much else that matters ;)00:29
imnicholSo you bring up the menu and start doing whatever, and meanwhile your Aaron Rogers brings the Packers to another victory00:29
imnicholThank goodness the menu didn't fill up the entire screen so you got to see the touchdown!00:30
tgm4883well, I got to see 75% of it00:30
tgm4883although I could just pause it as well00:30
imnicholBetter than 0%00:30
tgm4883or hit rewind00:30
imnicholNot all of us subscribe to tvo for whatever reason00:31
imnicholMaybe the HDD is full of all the Family Guy that our children recorded00:31
imnicholPoint being we shouldn't take it for granted00:31
imnicholHowever you could just make the unity menu larger00:31
tgm4883imnichol, I should go, but let me leave you with this. If I care about X show that is on, why would I try to do something else when I want to pay attention to the show?00:31
imnicholSafe travels00:32
imnicholPeace00:32
tgm4883So where am I suppose to put this UBuntu.zip pencil files?02:25
tgm4883ah there we go02:28
gdulhrHi all07:38
AlanBelltgm4883: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unitytelly/tgm4883/08:08
AlanBelltgm4883: when you do the export if you select ubuntu theme in the dropdown you get the sidebar thumbnails08:08
tgm4883AlanBell, oddly enough, I thought I had them11:16
tgm4883that page seems to show everything twice11:16
AlanBelloh maybe something else going on then11:18
AlanBellmy fault :)11:19
AlanBellpermissions error on the jquery files11:19
AlanBelllooks like it didn't export the music picture right, sometimes it does that if you have something selected when you export I think11:20
AlanBellfixed and on the wiki11:22
AlanBellif you can send me an updated music.png that would be great11:22
seifhi AlanBell11:24
seifdid u look at mex11:24
AlanBellno11:25
seifAlanBell, its interestng11:27
seifAlanBell, https://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/458233:an-early-expedition-with-media-explorer-on-linux11:27
AlanBellyeah, I am not too interested in the implementation side of it though11:31
AlanBellI just want to help this project use free software UX design tools11:32
tgm4883AlanBell, sending music.png now12:33
AlanBellupdated12:42
tgm4883AlanBell, thanks12:44
AlanBellreally pleased at the use of the template tbh12:48
MrChrisDruifGood afternoon, did you all read the email from André?14:05
tgm4883Andre?15:30
tgm4883MrChrisDruif, link?15:30
NCommanderevening all15:39
NCommanderso I've been looking at packaging xbmc; is there anyone actively working on this?16:26
NCommanderwb og16:27
ogra_heh16:29
MrChrisDruiftgm4883; was in the mailing-list, I'll look it up16:31
MrChrisDruiftgm4883; https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-tv/msg00076.html16:33
MrChrisDruifAloha NCommander16:33
MrChrisDruifWoow, 23 people in here =) A new record, except for the meeting16:34
ogra_there are meetings ?16:34
MrChrisDruifWell, people. I see two bots16:34
ogra_:)16:35
MrChrisDruifWell, we had one to prioritize the current feature list we came up with16:35
ogra_hmm, that mail clearly came in today, i wonder why i didnt get it16:35
ogra_(i'm subscribed since yesterday)16:36
ogra_oh, wait ... thats a different list16:36
ogra_why do we have two ?16:36
ogra_i subscribed (as for all other ubuntu lists) at lists.ubuntu.com16:37
ogra_but that mail seems to have gone to some launchpad thing16:37
ogra_one of them should be closed16:37
MrChrisDruifWe have a Ubuntu-tv mailing-list at lists.ubuntu.com? =P16:37
ogra_obviously16:38
ogra_https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-tv16:38
ogra_thats a tad redundant16:38
MrChrisDruifSo it seems =) https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-tv16:38
MrChrisDruifHaha16:38
MrChrisDruifWell, let me put it like this: I'm using the launchpad mailing-list, so see if that Ubuntu list will be worthwhile to follow ;-)16:39
imnicholSo wait, if I'm signed up for the launchpad list, I don't get the ubuntu list automatically?16:41
MrChrisDruifimnichol; don't sweat it. I didn't even knew about the ubuntu list16:43
ogra_usually all "ubuntu-" named lists are managed by mailman16:43
ogra_and no, they are not shared with LP16:43
imnicholWelp, time to subscribe to another mailing list then16:44
ogra_but there might be plans to move everythng to LP or some such16:44
ogra_though i havent seen that announced16:44
MrChrisDruifhave16:45
MrChrisDruif*?16:45
ogra_haven't16:45
MrChrisDruifAh, read error. My bad =)16:46
ogra_:)16:46
MrChrisDruifOh my, that was an explosion in activity yesterday on the mailing-list16:52
imnicholIsn't tgm Thomas Mashos?17:00
imnicholtgm4883 or whatever the numbers are17:01
imnicholOh hey, he's even in this channel! :)17:01
MrChrisDruifimnichol; you can auto-complete with tab, even with webchat applications17:02
imnicholOh man17:02
MrChrisDruifAnd I think so imnichol17:02
imnicholAwesome17:02
imnicholI'm using xchat17:02
MrChrisDruifWell, a whole new world unfolds for you then my friend =)17:02
imnicholIt's like I've crawled out of the Cave and I'm seeing the world instead of its shadows17:03
imnicholTo be honest, I'm not even sure what Ian, Thomas, and Jo-Erlend are arguing about17:04
imnicholI've just been imagining that we'd end up tweaking Unity a bit to make it more TV friendly and then using custom repos to control what people install17:05
MrChrisDruifAlright, most responses weren17:20
MrChrisDruift very usefull17:20
MrChrisDruifCrappy ' location17:20
tgm4883imnichol, I'm here17:22
tgm4883NCommander, I've been looking into it17:23
* imnichol is away: I'm busy17:24
tgm4883with any luck we will get it from Debian soon17:24
MrChrisDruiftgm4883; xbmc is packaged in debian already?17:26
tgm4883MrChrisDruif, there is someone working on it17:27
tgm4883They've done alot of the work already17:27
MrChrisDruifGreat, that means it also comes to Ubuntu right?17:27
tgm4883exactly17:27
MrChrisDruifHaha, alot =')17:27
* imnichol is back (gone 00:03:16)17:27
MrChrisDruifimnichol; I don't like your away messages ;-)17:27
tgm4883I actually just looked the guy up on IRC, hoping he will respond back. He's actually in the same state as me17:28
imnicholYeah I need to change them17:28
MrChrisDruifIt gives me false hope of activity in #ubuntu-tablet && #ubuntu-phone17:28
MrChrisDruifHaha17:28
imnicholOh man, just realized that17:28
MrChrisDruifBtw, tgm4883; http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html17:28
imnicholSo has anyone from Canonical weighed in on this at all?17:29
imnicholI suffer from not knowing who anyone is17:29
tgm4883yea I know, this netbook will be the death of me17:29
MrChrisDruifHeh, I think popey & AlanBell both are Canonical, but I can be mistaken (maybe just popey)17:30
tgm4883imnichol, I don't believe any canonical people have weighed in on any of the designs nor feature list17:30
popeyyou are MrChrisDruif17:30
tgm4883aside from marks post17:30
popeyAlanBell works for his own company.17:30
MrChrisDruifWell, the most important Canonical person has weighed in then ;-)17:30
popeyi spy a few Canonical people here though17:30
tgm4883popey, works for canonical. Formally? of UUPC?17:30
popeyI do.17:31
MrChrisDruifBut you are with Canonical right popey ?17:31
popeyI am.17:31
MrChrisDruif=)17:31
MrChrisDruifSo imnichol , there is your answer =)17:31
tgm4883looks like a linaro person is here as well17:31
tgm4883there was another that joined from canonical earlier today, but I'd have to look at my join messages on my desktop17:32
MrChrisDruifHaha, I hide those. Really annoying =P17:32
imnicholI'm really excited for finals to be over next week, so that I can put some time into creating a mockup17:32
AlanBellpopey: how was the app show thing?17:33
popeyBit rubbish17:33
popeyGreat if you wanted a platform to put your apps on17:33
popeyor if you wanted some apps for your platform17:33
popeyBut not so good if you were (for example) building an entire platform and apps :D17:33
AlanBellI see17:33
AlanBellso what kind of apps were people wanting to build for TV?17:34
popeywell there were lots of app development platforms17:34
tgm4883NCommander, FWIW, i'm currently using the build scripts for XBMC to try and build it on my PPA for oneiric17:34
popey"We can help you get your apps into Samsung/Boxee/Google etc devices"17:34
popey"We can provide a white-box video playback platform for your devices"17:35
popeyetc17:35
popeyA few nice TV setups it was good to borrow ideas from ☺17:35
AlanBellare they expecting apps to be java based?17:35
popey"they"?17:35
AlanBellthe "we can help you" people17:35
popeydidnt get into a lot of specifics, some were java tho17:36
popeygot a bit of swag too17:36
AlanBellwhat is the swag de jour?17:37
AlanBellUSB keys?17:37
popeyyeah, and pads, pens17:39
popeyand a wooden aeroplane for Sam17:39
NCommandertgm4883: I can give you a hand packaging it17:41
popeyInteresting URLs from leaflets:- http://www.pushbutton.tv/  & http://www.tvappagency.com/17:41
AlanBellI think it would be rather fine to be app-compatible with other platforms17:42
tgm4883NCommander, like i said, there isn't really any work to be done packaging it, unless you are talking for 12.04. I'm unsure if it will be in debian in time for the cutoff17:42
tgm4883i'm still working out some of the kinks on my ppa though17:42
popeythere's loads of players, being compatible is nice but tricky given how vast the market is17:42
MrChrisDruiftgm4883; have you got a wiki page by any chance?17:42
tgm4883MrChrisDruif, for?17:43
MrChrisDruifWell, it's always got to let people know who you are. Just like you can click on AlanBell's name on the /Designs page17:43
AlanBellpopey: not compatible with everything, perhaps, but it would be good to have a heap of apps from day 1 though17:44
tgm4883I don't have a wiki page17:44
tgm4883I have a google profile page17:44
tgm4883I refuse to keep my contact info on multiple pages17:45
MrChrisDruifYou can also link to outside sources, just like the storyboards17:46
popeyAlanBell: I expect things to get worse before any consolidation happens17:48
popeywhere "worse" means, even more proliferation of platforms17:48
AlanBellsupporting boxee apps looks plausible17:48
AlanBellin fact boxee is an xbmc fork and should be more or less app compatible with xbmc17:51
MrChrisDruifAlanBell; they are17:53
MrChrisDruifApparently you can use the "Boxee Remote" from the Android Market to control XBMC as well17:54
tgm4883MrChrisDruif, fixed17:55
MrChrisDruifGreat17:55
tgm4883Is Boxee even open source yet?17:56
MrChrisDruiftgm4883; isn't it?17:58
tgm4883MrChrisDruif, it wasn't last time I looked, but that was a while ago17:58
tgm4883before the box was released17:58
MrChrisDruifI thought (read: assumed) it was open-source17:59
tgm4883MrChrisDruif, parts of it were open source. The parts that are based on XBMC18:00
MrChrisDruifAlright18:01
MrChrisDruifI should saddle up my horse and go to music, see ya'll later =)18:03
AlanBellhttp://www.sg.hu/cikkek/86104/korvonalazodik_az_ubuntu_tv23:56
AlanBellhttp://www.hwjournal.net/home-entertainment/ubuntu-vuole-andare-in-tv-907323:56

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