[00:00] <dmj726> I'll have to get on that later with more discussion of networked apps I think
[00:01] <imnichol> Yeah
[00:02] <imnichol> I remember a discussion that I think had a collective sort of agreement that just vnc-ing into the tv was a bad idea for bandwidth reasons, but that the option might be useful for other stuff
[00:03] <dmj726> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg00006.html
[00:03] <dmj726> that whole thread I think
[00:03] <dmj726> also some stuff in irc
[00:04] <imnichol> Yeah the IRC stuff was what I was thinking of
[00:07] <imnichol> So I don't know about anyone else, but I've kind of been operating on the assumption that Canonical would be very involved in actually bringing UbuntuTV/Tablet/Phones to market.
[00:09] <imnichol> But from the mailing list, I get the feeling that not everyone agrees
[00:19] <dmj726> imnichol: I hope they jump in at some point soon
[00:20] <imnichol> Ok, here's my thing: If we just used Unity, Canonical could create some "official", "supported", "stable" apps to do all the functionality that we've been talking about
[00:20] <imnichol> And then people could write their own(using quickly or something?) to extend the functionality
[00:20] <tgm4883> I still don't like Unity for the TV
[00:21] <tgm4883> maybe a heavily modified Unity, but then whats the point
[00:21] <imnichol> I think Unity is already a pretty effective interface for a television, so we just need applications that give us the functionality of a tv tuner
[00:21] <imnichol> tgm4883: I get the feeling that you and I will disagree for eternity about this ;)
[00:22] <imnichol> After the bomb gets dropped, the only life on earth are the cockroaches, and then you and I sitting at our computers arguing
[00:22] <tgm4883> imnichol, I would agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong ;)
[00:22] <imnichol> Touche
[00:23] <imnichol> Of course this is my personal opinion, but I think that quickly would be a very effective tool for writing programs for an ubuntu-tv
[00:23] <tgm4883> so I think the basis of the argument was wasted space right? (asside from Unity being a bit resource intensive)
[00:24] <imnichol> I think so, but no one has ever exactly explained what space is wasted with unity
[00:24] <imnichol> (explained to me at least)
[00:24] <tgm4883> Everything beyond the launcher?
[00:24] <tgm4883> Everything beyond the lense
[00:24] <imnichol> What do you mean by beyond?
[00:25] <imnichol> Because I love Unity since it gives me so much screen realestate when I'm working
[00:25] <tgm4883> ok, so I hit the super key right now, a lense pops up and uses the top left 25% of my screen
[00:25] <tgm4883> the other 75% is wasted
[00:25] <tgm4883> Granted, I've only been using Unity for a few weeks
[00:26] <imnichol> Oh ok
[00:26] <imnichol> I suddenly get it
[00:26] <imnichol> Yeah, I agree to a point
[00:26] <imnichol> But I think that the ability to continue watching the program that's currently open is a large enough benefit
[00:26] <tgm4883> I'm not 100% sure why that would happen on a desktop (there has to be a reason right?) but I'm 100% sure that is bad on a TV
[00:27] <imnichol> I"ll give you an example
[00:27] <imnichol> I'm using xchat here on my 11.10 laptop
[00:27] <tgm4883> nobody wants to bring up the unity menu on a tv while watching a show
[00:27] <tgm4883> ok continue
[00:27] <imnichol> I want to search for a file, while still watching to see if anyone posts something new
[00:27] <imnichol> Actually I disagree there with you
[00:27] <tgm4883> I'll agree for the desktop usage
[00:28] <tgm4883> show me why I want that on a TV
[00:28] <tgm4883> also, I get to go home in 2 minutes
[00:28] <imnichol> Congrats, I got home 2 hours ago thanks to CST
[00:28] <imnichol> One of the benefits of a fly-over state
[00:28] <imnichol> I'll be quick then:
[00:29] <imnichol> You're watching football but you want to do something with the unity menu
[00:29] <tgm4883> What do I want to do? I mean, I'm watching football, there isn't much else that matters ;)
[00:29] <imnichol> So you bring up the menu and start doing whatever, and meanwhile your Aaron Rogers brings the Packers to another victory
[00:30] <imnichol> Thank goodness the menu didn't fill up the entire screen so you got to see the touchdown!
[00:30] <tgm4883> well, I got to see 75% of it
[00:30] <tgm4883> although I could just pause it as well
[00:30] <imnichol> Better than 0%
[00:30] <tgm4883> or hit rewind
[00:31] <imnichol> Not all of us subscribe to tvo for whatever reason
[00:31] <imnichol> Maybe the HDD is full of all the Family Guy that our children recorded
[00:31] <imnichol> Point being we shouldn't take it for granted
[00:31] <imnichol> However you could just make the unity menu larger
[00:31] <tgm4883> imnichol, I should go, but let me leave you with this. If I care about X show that is on, why would I try to do something else when I want to pay attention to the show?
[00:32] <imnichol> Safe travels
[00:32] <imnichol> Peace
[02:25] <tgm4883> So where am I suppose to put this UBuntu.zip pencil files?
[02:28] <tgm4883> ah there we go
[07:38] <gdulhr> Hi all
[08:08] <AlanBell> tgm4883: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unitytelly/tgm4883/
[08:08] <AlanBell> tgm4883: when you do the export if you select ubuntu theme in the dropdown you get the sidebar thumbnails
[11:16] <tgm4883> AlanBell, oddly enough, I thought I had them
[11:16] <tgm4883> that page seems to show everything twice
[11:18] <AlanBell> oh maybe something else going on then
[11:19] <AlanBell> my fault :)
[11:19] <AlanBell> permissions error on the jquery files
[11:20] <AlanBell> looks like it didn't export the music picture right, sometimes it does that if you have something selected when you export I think
[11:22] <AlanBell> fixed and on the wiki
[11:22] <AlanBell> if you can send me an updated music.png that would be great
[11:24] <seif> hi AlanBell
[11:24] <seif> did u look at mex
[11:25] <AlanBell> no
[11:27] <seif> AlanBell, its interestng
[11:27] <seif> AlanBell, https://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/458233:an-early-expedition-with-media-explorer-on-linux
[11:31] <AlanBell> yeah, I am not too interested in the implementation side of it though
[11:32] <AlanBell> I just want to help this project use free software UX design tools
[12:33] <tgm4883> AlanBell, sending music.png now
[12:42] <AlanBell> updated
[12:44] <tgm4883> AlanBell, thanks
[12:48] <AlanBell> really pleased at the use of the template tbh
[14:05] <MrChrisDruif> Good afternoon, did you all read the email from André?
[15:30] <tgm4883> Andre?
[15:30] <tgm4883> MrChrisDruif, link?
[15:39] <NCommander> evening all
[16:26] <NCommander> so I've been looking at packaging xbmc; is there anyone actively working on this?
[16:27] <NCommander> wb og	
[16:29] <ogra_> heh
[16:31] <MrChrisDruif> tgm4883; was in the mailing-list, I'll look it up
[16:33] <MrChrisDruif> tgm4883; https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-tv/msg00076.html
[16:33] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha NCommander
[16:34] <MrChrisDruif> Woow, 23 people in here =) A new record, except for the meeting
[16:34] <ogra_> there are meetings ?
[16:34] <MrChrisDruif> Well, people. I see two bots
[16:35] <ogra_> :)
[16:35] <MrChrisDruif> Well, we had one to prioritize the current feature list we came up with
[16:35] <ogra_> hmm, that mail clearly came in today, i wonder why i didnt get it
[16:36] <ogra_> (i'm subscribed since yesterday)
[16:36] <ogra_> oh, wait ... thats a different list
[16:36] <ogra_> why do we have two ?
[16:37] <ogra_> i subscribed (as for all other ubuntu lists) at lists.ubuntu.com
[16:37] <ogra_> but that mail seems to have gone to some launchpad thing
[16:37] <ogra_> one of them should be closed
[16:37] <MrChrisDruif> We have a Ubuntu-tv mailing-list at lists.ubuntu.com? =P
[16:38] <ogra_> obviously
[16:38] <ogra_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-tv
[16:38] <ogra_> thats a tad redundant
[16:38] <MrChrisDruif> So it seems =) https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-tv
[16:38] <MrChrisDruif> Haha
[16:39] <MrChrisDruif> Well, let me put it like this: I'm using the launchpad mailing-list, so see if that Ubuntu list will be worthwhile to follow ;-)
[16:41] <imnichol> So wait, if I'm signed up for the launchpad list, I don't get the ubuntu list automatically?
[16:43] <MrChrisDruif> imnichol; don't sweat it. I didn't even knew about the ubuntu list
[16:43] <ogra_> usually all "ubuntu-" named lists are managed by mailman
[16:43] <ogra_> and no, they are not shared with LP
[16:44] <imnichol> Welp, time to subscribe to another mailing list then
[16:44] <ogra_> but there might be plans to move everythng to LP or some such
[16:44] <ogra_> though i havent seen that announced
[16:45] <MrChrisDruif> have
[16:45] <MrChrisDruif> *?
[16:45] <ogra_> haven't
[16:46] <MrChrisDruif> Ah, read error. My bad =)
[16:46] <ogra_> :)
[16:52] <MrChrisDruif> Oh my, that was an explosion in activity yesterday on the mailing-list
[17:00] <imnichol> Isn't tgm Thomas Mashos?
[17:01] <imnichol> tgm4883 or whatever the numbers are
[17:01] <imnichol> Oh hey, he's even in this channel! :)
[17:02] <MrChrisDruif> imnichol; you can auto-complete with tab, even with webchat applications
[17:02] <imnichol> Oh man
[17:02] <MrChrisDruif> And I think so imnichol
[17:02] <imnichol> Awesome
[17:02] <imnichol> I'm using xchat
[17:02] <MrChrisDruif> Well, a whole new world unfolds for you then my friend =)
[17:03] <imnichol> It's like I've crawled out of the Cave and I'm seeing the world instead of its shadows
[17:04] <imnichol> To be honest, I'm not even sure what Ian, Thomas, and Jo-Erlend are arguing about
[17:05] <imnichol> I've just been imagining that we'd end up tweaking Unity a bit to make it more TV friendly and then using custom repos to control what people install
[17:20] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, most responses weren
[17:20] <MrChrisDruif> t very usefull
[17:20] <MrChrisDruif> Crappy ' location
[17:22] <tgm4883> imnichol, I'm here
[17:23] <tgm4883> NCommander, I've been looking into it
[17:24]  * imnichol is away: I'm busy
[17:24] <tgm4883> with any luck we will get it from Debian soon
[17:26] <MrChrisDruif> tgm4883; xbmc is packaged in debian already?
[17:27] <tgm4883> MrChrisDruif, there is someone working on it
[17:27] <tgm4883> They've done alot of the work already
[17:27] <MrChrisDruif> Great, that means it also comes to Ubuntu right?
[17:27] <tgm4883> exactly
[17:27] <MrChrisDruif> Haha, alot =')
[17:27]  * imnichol is back (gone 00:03:16)
[17:27] <MrChrisDruif> imnichol; I don't like your away messages ;-)
[17:28] <tgm4883> I actually just looked the guy up on IRC, hoping he will respond back. He's actually in the same state as me
[17:28] <imnichol> Yeah I need to change them
[17:28] <MrChrisDruif> It gives me false hope of activity in #ubuntu-tablet && #ubuntu-phone
[17:28] <MrChrisDruif> Haha
[17:28] <imnichol> Oh man, just realized that
[17:28] <MrChrisDruif> Btw, tgm4883; http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
[17:29] <imnichol> So has anyone from Canonical weighed in on this at all?
[17:29] <imnichol> I suffer from not knowing who anyone is
[17:29] <tgm4883> yea I know, this netbook will be the death of me
[17:30] <MrChrisDruif> Heh, I think popey & AlanBell both are Canonical, but I can be mistaken (maybe just popey)
[17:30] <tgm4883> imnichol, I don't believe any canonical people have weighed in on any of the designs nor feature list
[17:30] <popey> you are MrChrisDruif
[17:30] <tgm4883> aside from marks post
[17:30] <popey> AlanBell works for his own company.
[17:30] <MrChrisDruif> Well, the most important Canonical person has weighed in then ;-)
[17:30] <popey> i spy a few Canonical people here though
[17:30] <tgm4883> popey, works for canonical. Formally? of UUPC?
[17:31] <popey> I do.
[17:31] <MrChrisDruif> But you are with Canonical right popey ?
[17:31] <popey> I am.
[17:31] <MrChrisDruif> =)
[17:31] <MrChrisDruif> So imnichol , there is your answer =)
[17:31] <tgm4883> looks like a linaro person is here as well
[17:32] <tgm4883> there was another that joined from canonical earlier today, but I'd have to look at my join messages on my desktop
[17:32] <MrChrisDruif> Haha, I hide those. Really annoying =P
[17:32] <imnichol> I'm really excited for finals to be over next week, so that I can put some time into creating a mockup
[17:33] <AlanBell> popey: how was the app show thing?
[17:33] <popey> Bit rubbish
[17:33] <popey> Great if you wanted a platform to put your apps on
[17:33] <popey> or if you wanted some apps for your platform
[17:33] <popey> But not so good if you were (for example) building an entire platform and apps :D
[17:33] <AlanBell> I see
[17:34] <AlanBell> so what kind of apps were people wanting to build for TV?
[17:34] <popey> well there were lots of app development platforms
[17:34] <tgm4883> NCommander, FWIW, i'm currently using the build scripts for XBMC to try and build it on my PPA for oneiric
[17:34] <popey> "We can help you get your apps into Samsung/Boxee/Google etc devices"
[17:35] <popey> "We can provide a white-box video playback platform for your devices"
[17:35] <popey> etc
[17:35] <popey> A few nice TV setups it was good to borrow ideas from ☺
[17:35] <AlanBell> are they expecting apps to be java based?
[17:35] <popey> "they"?
[17:35] <AlanBell> the "we can help you" people
[17:36] <popey> didnt get into a lot of specifics, some were java tho
[17:36] <popey> got a bit of swag too
[17:37] <AlanBell> what is the swag de jour?
[17:37] <AlanBell> USB keys?
[17:39] <popey> yeah, and pads, pens
[17:39] <popey> and a wooden aeroplane for Sam
[17:41] <NCommander> tgm4883: I can give you a hand packaging it
[17:41] <popey> Interesting URLs from leaflets:- http://www.pushbutton.tv/  & http://www.tvappagency.com/
[17:42] <AlanBell> I think it would be rather fine to be app-compatible with other platforms
[17:42] <tgm4883> NCommander, like i said, there isn't really any work to be done packaging it, unless you are talking for 12.04. I'm unsure if it will be in debian in time for the cutoff
[17:42] <tgm4883> i'm still working out some of the kinks on my ppa though
[17:42] <popey> there's loads of players, being compatible is nice but tricky given how vast the market is
[17:42] <MrChrisDruif> tgm4883; have you got a wiki page by any chance?
[17:43] <tgm4883> MrChrisDruif, for?
[17:43] <MrChrisDruif> Well, it's always got to let people know who you are. Just like you can click on AlanBell's name on the /Designs page
[17:44] <AlanBell> popey: not compatible with everything, perhaps, but it would be good to have a heap of apps from day 1 though
[17:44] <tgm4883> I don't have a wiki page
[17:44] <tgm4883> I have a google profile page
[17:45] <tgm4883> I refuse to keep my contact info on multiple pages
[17:46] <MrChrisDruif> You can also link to outside sources, just like the storyboards
[17:48] <popey> AlanBell: I expect things to get worse before any consolidation happens
[17:48] <popey> where "worse" means, even more proliferation of platforms
[17:48] <AlanBell> supporting boxee apps looks plausible
[17:51] <AlanBell> in fact boxee is an xbmc fork and should be more or less app compatible with xbmc
[17:53] <MrChrisDruif> AlanBell; they are
[17:54] <MrChrisDruif> Apparently you can use the "Boxee Remote" from the Android Market to control XBMC as well
[17:55] <tgm4883> MrChrisDruif, fixed
[17:55] <MrChrisDruif> Great
[17:56] <tgm4883> Is Boxee even open source yet?
[17:58] <MrChrisDruif> tgm4883; isn't it?
[17:58] <tgm4883> MrChrisDruif, it wasn't last time I looked, but that was a while ago
[17:58] <tgm4883> before the box was released
[17:59] <MrChrisDruif> I thought (read: assumed) it was open-source
[18:00] <tgm4883> MrChrisDruif, parts of it were open source. The parts that are based on XBMC
[18:01] <MrChrisDruif> Alright
[18:03] <MrChrisDruif> I should saddle up my horse and go to music, see ya'll later =)
[23:56] <AlanBell> http://www.sg.hu/cikkek/86104/korvonalazodik_az_ubuntu_tv
[23:56] <AlanBell> http://www.hwjournal.net/home-entertainment/ubuntu-vuole-andare-in-tv-9073