[04:01] <mhall119> AlanBell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mhall119/utv/index.html
[04:04] <mhall119> my first attempt at a TV mockup
[04:06] <mhall119> doctormon and anyone else interested ^^
[04:07] <imnichol> mhall119, I like it
[04:07] <doctormon> looks good
[04:16] <mhall119> btw, you can install my Unity stencil collection at http://people.ubuntu.com/~mhall119/utv/Unity.zip, if you to go the "My Stuff" tab, right-click empty space and select "Import new private collection..."
[04:16] <mhall119> the stencils don't contain much atm, but it has the images I used to create the launcher buttons
[04:17] <mhall119> I hope it's something the ubuntu-design team can build up, as it would be useful for a great many projects
[04:21] <doctormon> Sounds like a good set of resources.
[08:01] <dholbach> good morning
[08:35] <yaili> good morning
[08:44] <mainerror> Morning.
[08:45] <mainerror> mhall119: Doesn't look bad but I'm not sure if having the launcher like on a desktop is the way to go to be honest.
[08:46] <mainerror> How is such a TV supposed to be controlled? Will it be controlled with a mouse and keyboard or with a remote?
[08:54] <AlanBell> mhall119: very nice
[08:55] <AlanBell> mainerror: do a storyboard to explain the way you want it to work!
[08:56] <mainerror> I'll do that.
[08:56] <AlanBell> but anyhow, the specifics of that are really more for #ubuntu-tv and that mailing list
[08:57] <AlanBell> getting unity stencils available for designing stuff is great
[13:01] <mhall119> mainerror: I see there being an ubuntu-button that, when pressed, moves the launcher into view and puts the selection hilight on the first item
[13:01] <mhall119> you then use the up and down arrow buttons to select
[13:01] <mhall119> in my mockup, there's apps for video, music, games and files
[13:13] <mainerror> I see.
[13:13] <mainerror> I thought about a dashboard design pattern.
[13:14] <mainerror> It is nothing really new, especially on TV, I know that but it is easy and intuitive to use.
[13:14] <mainerror> I'll come up with some mockups this weekend.
[13:25] <AlanBell> so wendar's meeting of the design liberation front is in about 3.5 hours right?
[13:29] <mainerror> Yea ... and I'm going to miss that meeting.
[16:42] <doctormon> Meeting soon!
[16:56] <doctormon> wendar: ping
[16:56] <wendar> doctormon: pong
[17:00] <doctormon> AlanBell, antdillon, ara, bwinton, cjohnston, ckpringle, CrazyThinker, czajkowski, daker, dholbach, dmj726, godbyk, gord, jasox, jfi, johnoxton, Kaleo, kholerabbi: Meeting!
[17:00] <wendar> hi all
[17:00] <thorwil> hi
[17:00] <daker> hi
[17:00] <antdillon> doctormon, hi
[17:00] <AlanBell> hi
[17:00] <AlanBell> feel free to use the meeting bot if you want to
[17:00]  * dholbach is just about to head out - have a great meeting everyone
[17:00] <oreneeshy> hi all
[17:01] <jasox> hi
[17:01] <doctormon> Welcome to the weekly ubuntu design meeting.
[17:01] <MacSlow> hey everybody
[17:01] <wendar> #startmeeting
[17:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Nov 30 17:01:36 2011 UTC.  The chair is wendar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[17:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:01] <wendar> ah, it's on, good
[17:02] <doctormon> So wendar, tell us what's on the agenda this week.
[17:02] <wendar> - picking a project
[17:03] <wendar> - starting to sketch out the first stages
[17:04] <wendar> Also, there's been lots of interesting work the past couple of weeks, so I'd like to hear a quick summary.
[17:04] <doctormon> sure
[17:05] <doctormon> We have some interesting investigations into Pencil, a tool for creating workflow mockups. It's a firefox extention/app.
[17:05] <doctormon> mhall119 I believe has made some interesting templates for ubuntu people to use.
[17:06] <doctormon> AlanBell has been leading the charge by practicing with the highly conceptual Ubuntu-TV idea.
[17:06] <mhall119> doctormon: the templates for the TV are from AlanBell, I made stencils of the Unity launcher buttons
[17:07] <doctormon> Thanks for the correction, resources from mhall119 and AlanBell available on request. Are they linked on the resource wiki page?
[17:07] <mhall119> doctormon: on the wiki page for the TV designs, yes
[17:07] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Designs
[17:08] <doctormon> Can you guys link all your resources directly to the design-resource page, maybe under a Pencil header?
[17:08] <mhall119> what's the URL for that?
[17:09] <doctormon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Resources
[17:09] <doctormon> As well as the work with pencil, I've spent thanks giving developing an alpha Ethersketch. It's a merge of the svg-editor and etherpad-lite.
[17:10] <wendar> ah, fantastic
[17:10] <doctormon> So far it works and is going through it's last few turns of development, once done i'll release an alpha and people can try it out and see if real-time collab graphics is useful.
[17:11] <doctormon> Also on the horizon is the decision to have a dedicated website for design work. The idea is that without a place to document briefs and showcase designs for peer views, everything will get very adhoc.
[17:12] <doctormon> wendar and I talked with sabdfl last week, I think he believes that adhoc is good enough, we should have everybodies opinion.
[17:13] <thorwil> good enough is not good enough ^_^
[17:13] <mhall119> doctormon: I believe design.canonical.com was going to be moved to design.ubuntu.com, will we add the peer review and critique functionality onto that?
[17:14] <wendar> mhall119: design.ubuntu.com is being set up as a new "planet" on the main page, that pulls in design.canonical.com
[17:14] <doctormon> mhall119: It's a php based wordpress site, it's beyond my analysis of it's capability.
[17:14] <wendar> also, custom pages of Ubuntu design resources
[17:14] <mhall119> php :(
[17:14] <wendar> but, we can host anything under the tap
[17:14] <wendar> tab
[17:15] <wendar> sladen has more information
[17:16] <wendar> basically, the planet home page is just a quick way to get community designers voices up on design.ubuntu.com
[17:16] <wendar> without a lot of infrastructure changes
[17:16] <doctormon> makes sense, a good direction I think.
[17:16] <thorwil> sounds good indeed
[17:16] <mhall119> and then just have reviews and critiques happen on each person's blog comments?
[17:17] <doctormon> mhall119: That's where it gets adhoc, it doesn't actually matter where they go because each blog could do it differently.
[17:17] <wendar> mhall119 I wasn't thinking of the blog as part of the workflow, more as general communication
[17:17] <oreneeshy> wendar: sorry to interrupt can we pause for a sec for a quick rnd on intros
[17:18] <oreneeshy> of intros
[17:18] <wendar> oreneeshy: yes, good idea
[17:18] <sladen> mhall119: latest intention as I understand it.  Is to have  design.ubuntu.com/planet  design.u.c/logo/  design.u.c/font  etc
[17:18] <wendar> if you weren't here to give an intro last meeting, take a line or two to tell us who you are and what you're interested in
[17:18] <thorwil> communicating a design process via blog posts is hard work. things break down if it is supposed to go collaborative
[17:19] <sladen> mhall119: and moving all of the Ubuntu stuff over;  and then to leave /canonical-specific/ stuff on  design.canonical.com  eg.  the blog, and canonical-specific logos/branding
[17:19] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Designs/Pencil is the resources page
[17:19] <AlanBell> or is a page where some resources are
[17:19] <AlanBell> I will move them
[17:20] <AlanBell> sorry, I was scrolled back :)
[17:21] <wendar> [TOPIC] Catchup introductions
[17:21] <wendar> (mootbot is only partially following us?)
[17:21] <AlanBell> Hi I am Alan Bell, I am leader of the UK LoCo and do other bits and bobs. I am interested in helping the design team use Free tools because they are more awesome than the alternatives
[17:21] <AlanBell> wendar: it doesn't have rights to change the channel topic
[17:21] <AlanBell> it did hear you
[17:22] <AlanBell> I also maintain meetingology and have a long list of bugs to fix on it :)
[17:23]  * sladen is a techie on the Canonical Design Team (basically a glorified lab technician).  Poke me about fonts/packaging/bugs/artwork that isn't published yet.
[17:23] <wendar> oreneeshy: introduce yourself?
[17:24] <oreneeshy> Hello am Oren. I do interaction design in the unity team
[17:24] <thorwil> i'm Thorsten Wilms, allround-designer. reponsible for a few ubuntu related logos, like the one for spreadubuntu. i'm very interested in interaction design and design methods/processes
[17:26] <oreneeshy> I am interested in developing a community process  that will focus on experience journeys rather then UI behaviours
[17:26]  * MacSlow is here from the Canonical's DX-team to help mentor anything regarding designer->engieer asset-handover/drafting
[17:27]  * wendar looks through the introductions last time
[17:27] <wendar> jasox and antdillon: hi, welcome, would you like to introduce yourselves?
[17:28] <jasox> I am Jasmin Rahimic, student of IT in Bosnia. I am interested in ubuntu development and design.
[17:28] <antdillon> hi im a member of the webteam here at canonical, mainly develop front-end code but work backend if I need to.
[17:28] <jasox> i don't have a lot of design experience.
[17:29] <antdillon> I am not a designer im a developer
[17:29] <wendar> we need a little of everything here :)
[17:30] <doctormon> I'm Martin Owens, programmer with an interest in design workflow.
[17:32] <sladen> nuthinking: are you here to introduce yourself?
[17:32] <doctormon> wendar: Once introductions are over, can you continue with our tasks for the week?
[17:33] <wendar> doctormon: did we finish the summary of the past two weeks?
[17:34] <wendar> onward, then
[17:34] <wendar> [TOPIC] Picking the first project
[17:34] <wendar> (or projects)
[17:34] <wendar> We have 4 candidate projects
[17:35] <wendar> and, this is partly a matter of finding out what people are interested in working on
[17:35] <wendar> so, we may have a couple of threads running with different interest groups
[17:36] <wendar> The first three are small games, which we can use to try out the design workflow of reviewing and approving an existing application.
[17:37] <wendar> The forth is more orieted towards assisting that workfllow, exploring possible tools, and maybe developing some new ones.
[17:38] <wendar> The three games are 4digits, AisleRot, and gbrainy.
[17:38] <AlanBell> gbrainy is likely to not be on the CD
[17:39] <wendar> AlanBell: dropped dependencies?
[17:39] <AlanBell> the mono/banshee thing
[17:39] <AlanBell> without banshee only gbrainy and tomboy need mono
[17:40] <AlanBell> not that it should stop anything for this team, just throwing it out there as info
[17:40] <wendar> very useful thanks
[17:40] <sladen> AisleRiot was mentioned in the design-sessions at UDS
[17:41] <AlanBell> I think the main problem with gbrainy is that the questions are not very good, design won't fix that
[17:41]  * wendar is aiming for general discussion on all three, then vote
[17:41] <doctormon> So I think we should pair or group people up who are interest in each idea so they can work on it for the week.
[17:41] <AlanBell> what are 4digits and aisleriot?
[17:42] <doctormon> After all the group doesn't do projects, people do projects ;-)
[17:42] <wendar> sladen: was that general design problems or just a new card deck
[17:42] <sladen> I think it was highlighting that the existing Ubuntu card backs were no longer being picked up
[17:43] <sladen> but if it came up, perhaps that indicators that it has some mindshare
[17:43] <mhall119> AlanBell: aisleriot is the gnome card cames
[17:43] <mhall119> games
[17:43] <mhall119> solitaire, freecell, etc
[17:44] <antdillon> http://live.gnome.org/Aisleriot
[17:44] <oreneeshy> wendar: what is the rational for this choices?
[17:44] <doctormon> Part of the research should be to look at the comments in the software center too.
[17:44] <thorwil> i suspect that aisleriot will not offer much room for improving the ux. with 4digits, the shortcomings of the ui might be part of the game
[17:44] <wendar> oreneeshy: we're looking for something small, that we could do in a week or two
[17:45] <mhall119> thorwil: the suggestion for aisleriot was to make an ubuntu-themed set of card images
[17:45] <oreneeshy> ok.
[17:45] <mhall119> which means it likely won't be accepted upstream
[17:45] <doctormon> Of course not, but we could make a package for an ubuntu theme surely.
[17:45] <mhall119> or we could do a non-ubuntu-specific set of art, which might
[17:45] <wendar> oreneeshy: to walk through one full process including (simple) user journeys, design drafts, implementation and launch
[17:45] <mhall119> doctormon: yes we could
[17:45] <oreneeshy>  makes sense
[17:46] <wendar> oreneeshy: different people will have different interests, but personally, I'm really interested in walking through with your current workflow
[17:46] <mhall119> oreneeshy: it was more to test our processes with a real-life, but small scope, project
[17:46] <wendar> oreneeshy: to get a sense of what you do an how
[17:47] <wendar> oreneeshy: (for the people who are interested in tools for workflow, that would be valuable too, as examples)
[17:47] <wendar> 4digits is http://fourdigits.sourceforge.net/
[17:47] <doctormon> wendar: OK we should start to get commitments in the last 12mins of the meeting.
[17:47] <oreneeshy> wendar: sure. the tools are critical in that sense I agree
[17:48] <wendar> I asked the developer if he'd be interested in being an example project for a group of Ubuntu designers, and he was enthusiastic
[17:49] <wendar> did we hear back from asilerot?
[17:49] <wendar> *AisleRot
[17:50] <wendar> 4digits is currently in Debian, will be in Precise (sync'd to universe), but is unlikely to be on the CD
[17:50] <MacSlow> got to go
[17:51] <wendar> Let's do this as a quick show of hands.
[17:52] <wendar> Who is interested in working on simple design improvements to AisleRot?
[17:52] <doctormon> No art people in the house?
[17:53] <wendar> Who is interested in working on simple design improvements to 4digits?
[17:53] <wendar> o/
[17:53] <doctormon> \o
[17:53] <jasox>  I would like to try.
[17:54] <wendar> great!
[17:54] <doctormon> Cool, looks like we have a team for 4digits.
[17:55] <oreneeshy> cool
[17:56] <wendar> We'll start on that this week.
[17:56] <wendar> 4 minutes left, what else do people plan to work on this week?
[17:57] <doctormon> I'll be ready with that ethersketch alpha by next week.
[17:57] <oreneeshy> wendar: plan for tools is we do them as they need emerges?
[17:57] <wendar> oreneeshy: there are a group of people interested in tools now, so if you're interested, we should get you all talking
[17:58] <oreneeshy> wendar: sounds good
[17:58] <wendar> oreneeshy: it's very much in the "user journey" phase now, working out the processes designers use, and what would be helpful to them
[17:58]  * AlanBell wants to know what proprietary tools are used in the current workflow
[17:58] <doctormon> AlanBell: Google docs and a whiteboard somewhere in london? ;-)
[17:59] <AlanBell> storyboarding on google docs?
[17:59] <doctormon> I have no idea.
[17:59] <AlanBell> hence the question :)
[18:01] <doctormon> OK, I think we're done for this week. Thank you to all those who came and participated.
[18:02] <doctormon> And good luck with your design items for the week.
[18:02] <wendar> Thanks all!
[18:02] <wendar> #endmeeting
[18:02] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Nov 30 18:02:14 2011 UTC.
[18:02] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-design/2011/ubuntu-design.2011-11-30-17.01.moin.txt
[18:03] <AlanBell> oreneeshy: what tools do you use?
[18:04] <oreneeshy> AlanBell: depends
[18:04] <oreneeshy> white board, paper for sketching
[18:05] <oreneeshy> AI / other tool for WF
[18:05] <AlanBell> what is AI and WF?
[18:05] <oreneeshy> graphic tool / google docs for specs
[18:05] <oreneeshy> wireframing
[18:05] <AlanBell> what graphic tool?
[18:05] <oreneeshy> photoshop for mockups
[18:06] <AlanBell> and what other tool?
[18:06] <oreneeshy> Adoeb Ilustrator
[18:06] <oreneeshy> Omnigraph, Visio, pencil, balsamic
[18:06] <AlanBell> ok, so what does Adobe Illustrator do that made you choose it for wireframing?
[18:07] <oreneeshy> not much just know it well
[18:07] <oreneeshy> can do more accurate WF with real dimensions
[18:08] <oreneeshy> also works well with other CS tools
[18:08] <AlanBell> really? you design in cm? no px?
[18:08] <AlanBell> CS tools?
[18:08] <oreneeshy> other wise it doesn't matter
[18:08] <AlanBell> computer science?
[18:08] <oreneeshy> creative suite
[18:08] <oreneeshy> Adobe
[18:08] <AlanBell> adobe stuff again?
[18:09] <oreneeshy> :)
[18:09]  * AlanBell has never used any of that stuff
[18:09] <oreneeshy> unfortunately...
[18:09] <AlanBell> so, dimensions, what units do you work in?
[18:10] <oreneeshy> pixels
[18:10] <AlanBell> err, ok
[18:10] <AlanBell> what doesn't do pixels??
[18:10] <oreneeshy> against a reference display and target density
[18:11] <oreneeshy> has to be in a display framework context though
[18:11] <oreneeshy> so scaling between devices could be considered on early stages
[18:13] <AlanBell> ok, so inkscape does px measurements
[18:13] <AlanBell> it has a zoom correction factor so you can set the DPI you are aiming for
[18:13] <AlanBell> not sure I would want to do anything but 100% to be honest
[18:14] <AlanBell> you can set the export resolution too
[18:15] <AlanBell> so what is omnigraph?
[18:16] <AlanBell> visio is a flowcharting thing, I used that a couple of times about 10 years ago
[18:16] <AlanBell> can draw network diagrams and things too
[18:17] <AlanBell> Microsoft bought it or something I think
[18:17] <AlanBell> Omnigraph is educational maths software?
[18:18] <AlanBell> PCB prototyping? (that sounds fun)
[18:19] <AlanBell> this thing? http://www.omnigroup.com/products/omnigraphsketcher
[18:30] <AlanBell> oreneeshy: when you say balsamic I assume you mean balsamiq which is a software as a service thing like pencil?
[18:31] <oreneeshy> AlanBell: yes
[18:31] <AlanBell> is it better than pencil in any way?
[18:31] <mhall119> Dia is an alternative to Visio, I've used it quite a bit
[18:31] <oreneeshy> AlanBell: onmigraph is a wire framing tool
[18:32] <mhall119> AlanBell: Pencil is SaaS?
[18:32] <AlanBell> omnigraffle?
[18:32] <AlanBell> mhall119: no, balsamiq is like pencil, but SaaS
[18:32] <mhall119> oh, ok
[18:33] <AlanBell> http://konigi.com/tools/omnigraffle-wireframe-stencils that?
[18:34] <AlanBell> http://www.omnigroup.com/products/omnigraffle/ that appears to be the product maybe?
[18:35] <oreneeshy> AlanBell: yes
[18:35]  * AlanBell does not know about obscure programs for the mac :)
[18:35] <oreneeshy> AlanBell: I think pencil is more then enough for sketching though
[18:36] <mhall119> oreneeshy: can we either look at using open source tools, or formats that are compatible with open source tools?
[18:36] <AlanBell> mhall119: this is why I am asking
[18:36] <mhall119> we can't make having a copy of the CS suite a requirement for community engagement
[18:36] <oreneeshy> mhall119: yes if pencil is OS it should be enough
[18:36] <mhall119> it is
[18:36] <AlanBell> using adobe illustrator errects a £500 barrier to collaboration
[18:36] <oreneeshy> we don't need CS necessarily
[18:36] <AlanBell> photoshop again
[18:36] <oreneeshy> I think we can start small
[18:37] <AlanBell> this grapffle thing is $99
[18:37] <oreneeshy> ttools are just their to express ideas
[18:37] <oreneeshy> we can also use google docs - they have quite good drawing tool
[18:37] <AlanBell> and the open tools can be adapted and fixed
[18:37] <oreneeshy> many people now use it for WF
[18:38] <mhall119> cool
[18:38] <mhall119> oreneeshy: I know it's a lot to ask for you guys to abandon the tools you're familiar with, so file compatibility is enough to make me happy
[18:39] <AlanBell> what I want is for the Free tools to be *better* for designing stuff for Ubuntu
[18:39] <oreneeshy> AlanBell: mhall119 http://mortenjust.com/2010/04/19/a-wireframe-kit-for-google-drawings/
[18:39] <AlanBell> omnigrapffle seems to have a heap of templates and stencils for designing stuff for iPad and suchlike
[18:39] <oreneeshy> http://googledocs.blogspot.com/2010/05/rapid-wireframe-sketching-in-google.html
[18:39] <mhall119> AlanBell: we've got a couple decades of work to catch up on to get there
[18:39] <AlanBell> what we don't have is stuff for designing things for Ubuntu
[18:39] <oreneeshy> :)
[18:40] <mhall119> AlanBell: that's where I'd like to see an extensive Pencil stencil collection made
[18:40] <AlanBell> exactly
[18:40] <mhall119> for Unity/Ambiance, and also the web themes
[18:40] <AlanBell> indeed
[18:41] <mhall119> once I had my launcher button stencils in Pencil, it was easy to build my Unity TV mockup
[18:41] <oreneeshy> AlanBell: dont know about pencil but g docs can role versioning as well comments and white boarding - so you can sketch and chat on the same page
[18:41] <AlanBell> versioning is interesting, could store pencil components in bzr
[18:42] <oreneeshy> its also available form any platform
[18:42] <AlanBell> however doctormon has a plan which is way more exciting
[18:42] <AlanBell> I am not too bothered about things being available cross platform
[18:42] <mhall119> AlanBell: storing Pencil stuff in bzr will be a pain, because it's XML and then it's compressed
[18:43] <AlanBell> true
[18:43] <mhall119> oreneeshy: does g docs let you create reusable widgets, for things like Unity Launcher buttons?
[18:44] <mhall119> that's my favorite part of Pencil
[18:44] <oreneeshy> mhall119: it's called stencil and the guy writes on it in the blog post
[18:44] <oreneeshy> u dont have a stencil but you can copy p[aste between docs
[18:45] <oreneeshy> so one doc could be the stencil and people copy paste items between docs
[18:45] <mhall119> btw, AlanBell, you can import my Unity stencils into Pencil 1.3.2, I can walk you though
[18:45] <AlanBell> is there anything in that which makes storyboarding of wireframes interesting?
[18:45] <AlanBell> mhall119: already done it :)
[18:45] <mhall119> I'm going to stick with the 1.2 standalone version, I like it better
[18:45] <mhall119> AlanBell: oh, ok, cool
[18:46] <AlanBell> I want to do an Ubuntu window frame
[18:46] <mhall119> AlanBell: +1
[18:46] <AlanBell> with turn on and offable buttons and shadow
[18:47] <AlanBell> and I am going to integrate a comment service on the output I think
[18:53] <mhall119> I'm creating a bzr branch for the unity stencils, what project should I push that to?
[18:53] <mhall119> or should I create a new project in LP for them?
[18:55] <mhall119> wendar: sladen: ^^
[18:55] <sladen> now that's a good question
[18:55] <wendar> mhall119: it seems sensible to use ubuntu-design
[18:56] <mhall119> wendar: is that a project name?
[18:56] <wendar> it's a team, not a project
[18:56] <mhall119> right, I need lp:~ubuntu-design/<project>/pencil-stencils-unity
[18:56] <sladen> there is ~ubuntu-design  and  ubuntu-design
[18:57] <sladen> it would be possible to  push to  lp:~ubuntu-design/ubuntu-design/pencil-stencils-unity
[18:57] <mhall119> launchpad.net/ubuntu-design/ has nothing
[18:57] <sladen> but in this case, 'pencil-stencils-unity' is really the project
[18:57] <mhall119> so I should make a new LP project then
[18:58] <wendar> or just 'pencil-stencils'?
[18:58] <mhall119> yeah
[18:58] <mhall119> or ubuntu-pencil-stencils
[18:58] <thorwil> AlanBell: i use inkscape for mockups professionally. i don't think it has to stand behind illustrator in this context (illustrator does have some more tricks up its sleaves)
[18:59] <thorwil> or in other words, where detailed vector work is needed or beneficial, inkscape does the trick
[18:59] <thorwil> now i really have to look into pencil. last time i checked was too early
[19:01] <thorwil> was hoping i could use the standalone version, but "Could not find compatible GRE between version 1.9.1 and 1.9.2.*." :/
[19:02] <AlanBell> yes, standalone is somewhat dropped
[19:02] <AlanBell> they don't seem to be building it upstream, and we dropped xulrunner so it wouldn't work anyway
[19:02] <mhall119> did we ever establish a moderated team for design?
[19:03] <AlanBell> ooh, no branches :)
[19:03] <mhall119> no branches?
[19:03] <AlanBell> on open teams
[19:03] <mhall119> I thin you can, but no PPAs
[19:03] <AlanBell> oh, ok
[19:04] <AlanBell> thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Designs/Pencil
[19:05] <thorwil> yes, saw that, ty
[19:05] <sladen> There Xara3D too
[19:05] <AlanBell> the export template makes storyboards with query fades like this http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unitytelly/
[19:05] <sladen> which kwwii used to use quite a lot
[19:05] <mhall119> doh, set it to the wrong team
[19:05] <mhall119> cjohnston: you around?
[19:06] <cjohnston> at work
[19:06] <mhall119> cjohnston: can you add me to ubuntu-design-drafters when you have a minute?
[19:06] <AlanBell> http://www.xara.com/uk/products/xara3d/features/ this thing that looks like blender?
[19:07] <mhall119> AlanBell: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-design/ubuntu-pencil/pencil-stencils-unity
[19:07] <mhall119> AlanBell: "make" will create the Unity.zip from the Definition.xml, "make update" will extract the Definition.xml from Unity.zip
[19:07] <AlanBell> cool
[19:08] <mhall119> so if you make changes in Pencil, export the collection to Unity.zip in the branch directory, run "make update", and it should be ready to commit
[19:08] <mhall119> we'll just have to be careful when merging
[19:08] <AlanBell> what is the difference between a private collection and a regular collection?
[19:08] <mhall119> AlanBell: I have no idea
[19:09] <mhall119> I think private collections get saved in ~/.pencil, rather than the system-wide folder
[19:09] <AlanBell> ok, because your unity.zip wouldn't import as a regular collection, but got added straight in as a private one
[19:09] <mhall119> which probably only made sense on the standalone version
[19:09] <mhall119> AlanBell: maybe there's a structural difference too, I don't know
[19:10] <AlanBell> collection specification not found in archive
[19:10] <AlanBell> wonder if there is some kind of manifest file that it needs
[19:13] <mhall119> hmm...
[19:14] <cjohnston> k
[19:15] <AlanBell> just installed the DoJo UI Widgets, that worked fine as a regular collection http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Downloads/Stencils.aspx
[19:15] <AlanBell> no extra files in the zip, just Definition.xml and some png files
[19:16] <wendar> mhall119: added you to ubuntu-design-drafters
[19:17] <AlanBell> oh, very different XML
[19:19] <mhall119> wendar: thanks
[19:31] <mhall119> AlanBell: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-pencil I've made a series for each of our Pencil resources, and put them in bzr branches
[19:31] <mhall119> if you want to change the wiki references to use them, instead of our people.u.c uploads
[19:36] <AlanBell> will do
[21:40] <mmiicc> Just looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Resources. I would go with Gpick (http://code.google.com/p/gpick/) instead of Agave. Has more features and it is still maintained.
[22:22] <mhall119> AlanBell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mhall119/utv/index.html what do you think of the remote with button hilights?