[04:01] AlanBell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mhall119/utv/index.html === om26er_ is now known as om26er [04:04] my first attempt at a TV mockup [04:06] doctormon and anyone else interested ^^ [04:07] mhall119, I like it [04:07] looks good [04:16] btw, you can install my Unity stencil collection at http://people.ubuntu.com/~mhall119/utv/Unity.zip, if you to go the "My Stuff" tab, right-click empty space and select "Import new private collection..." [04:16] the stencils don't contain much atm, but it has the images I used to create the launcher buttons [04:17] I hope it's something the ubuntu-design team can build up, as it would be useful for a great many projects [04:21] Sounds like a good set of resources. [08:01] good morning [08:35] good morning [08:44] Morning. [08:45] mhall119: Doesn't look bad but I'm not sure if having the launcher like on a desktop is the way to go to be honest. [08:46] How is such a TV supposed to be controlled? Will it be controlled with a mouse and keyboard or with a remote? [08:54] mhall119: very nice [08:55] mainerror: do a storyboard to explain the way you want it to work! [08:56] I'll do that. [08:56] but anyhow, the specifics of that are really more for #ubuntu-tv and that mailing list [08:57] getting unity stencils available for designing stuff is great === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [13:01] mainerror: I see there being an ubuntu-button that, when pressed, moves the launcher into view and puts the selection hilight on the first item [13:01] you then use the up and down arrow buttons to select [13:01] in my mockup, there's apps for video, music, games and files [13:13] I see. [13:13] I thought about a dashboard design pattern. [13:14] It is nothing really new, especially on TV, I know that but it is easy and intuitive to use. [13:14] I'll come up with some mockups this weekend. [13:25] so wendar's meeting of the design liberation front is in about 3.5 hours right? [13:29] Yea ... and I'm going to miss that meeting. === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [16:42] Meeting soon! [16:56] wendar: ping [16:56] doctormon: pong [17:00] AlanBell, antdillon, ara, bwinton, cjohnston, ckpringle, CrazyThinker, czajkowski, daker, dholbach, dmj726, godbyk, gord, jasox, jfi, johnoxton, Kaleo, kholerabbi: Meeting! [17:00] hi all [17:00] hi [17:00] hi [17:00] doctormon, hi [17:00] hi [17:00] feel free to use the meeting bot if you want to [17:00] * dholbach is just about to head out - have a great meeting everyone [17:00] hi all [17:01] hi [17:01] Welcome to the weekly ubuntu design meeting. [17:01] hey everybody [17:01] #startmeeting [17:01] Meeting started Wed Nov 30 17:01:36 2011 UTC. The chair is wendar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. [17:01] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [17:01] ah, it's on, good [17:02] So wendar, tell us what's on the agenda this week. [17:02] - picking a project [17:03] - starting to sketch out the first stages [17:04] Also, there's been lots of interesting work the past couple of weeks, so I'd like to hear a quick summary. [17:04] sure [17:05] We have some interesting investigations into Pencil, a tool for creating workflow mockups. It's a firefox extention/app. [17:05] mhall119 I believe has made some interesting templates for ubuntu people to use. [17:06] AlanBell has been leading the charge by practicing with the highly conceptual Ubuntu-TV idea. [17:06] doctormon: the templates for the TV are from AlanBell, I made stencils of the Unity launcher buttons [17:07] Thanks for the correction, resources from mhall119 and AlanBell available on request. Are they linked on the resource wiki page? [17:07] doctormon: on the wiki page for the TV designs, yes [17:07] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Designs [17:08] Can you guys link all your resources directly to the design-resource page, maybe under a Pencil header? [17:08] what's the URL for that? [17:09] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Resources [17:09] As well as the work with pencil, I've spent thanks giving developing an alpha Ethersketch. It's a merge of the svg-editor and etherpad-lite. [17:10] ah, fantastic [17:10] So far it works and is going through it's last few turns of development, once done i'll release an alpha and people can try it out and see if real-time collab graphics is useful. [17:11] Also on the horizon is the decision to have a dedicated website for design work. The idea is that without a place to document briefs and showcase designs for peer views, everything will get very adhoc. [17:12] wendar and I talked with sabdfl last week, I think he believes that adhoc is good enough, we should have everybodies opinion. [17:13] good enough is not good enough ^_^ [17:13] doctormon: I believe design.canonical.com was going to be moved to design.ubuntu.com, will we add the peer review and critique functionality onto that? [17:14] mhall119: design.ubuntu.com is being set up as a new "planet" on the main page, that pulls in design.canonical.com [17:14] mhall119: It's a php based wordpress site, it's beyond my analysis of it's capability. [17:14] also, custom pages of Ubuntu design resources [17:14] php :( [17:14] but, we can host anything under the tap [17:14] tab [17:15] sladen has more information [17:16] basically, the planet home page is just a quick way to get community designers voices up on design.ubuntu.com [17:16] without a lot of infrastructure changes [17:16] makes sense, a good direction I think. [17:16] sounds good indeed [17:16] and then just have reviews and critiques happen on each person's blog comments? [17:17] mhall119: That's where it gets adhoc, it doesn't actually matter where they go because each blog could do it differently. [17:17] mhall119 I wasn't thinking of the blog as part of the workflow, more as general communication [17:17] wendar: sorry to interrupt can we pause for a sec for a quick rnd on intros [17:18] of intros [17:18] oreneeshy: yes, good idea [17:18] mhall119: latest intention as I understand it. Is to have design.ubuntu.com/planet design.u.c/logo/ design.u.c/font etc [17:18] if you weren't here to give an intro last meeting, take a line or two to tell us who you are and what you're interested in [17:18] communicating a design process via blog posts is hard work. things break down if it is supposed to go collaborative [17:19] mhall119: and moving all of the Ubuntu stuff over; and then to leave /canonical-specific/ stuff on design.canonical.com eg. the blog, and canonical-specific logos/branding [17:19] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Designs/Pencil is the resources page [17:19] or is a page where some resources are [17:19] I will move them [17:20] sorry, I was scrolled back :) [17:21] [TOPIC] Catchup introductions [17:21] (mootbot is only partially following us?) [17:21] Hi I am Alan Bell, I am leader of the UK LoCo and do other bits and bobs. I am interested in helping the design team use Free tools because they are more awesome than the alternatives [17:21] wendar: it doesn't have rights to change the channel topic [17:21] it did hear you [17:22] I also maintain meetingology and have a long list of bugs to fix on it :) [17:23] * sladen is a techie on the Canonical Design Team (basically a glorified lab technician). Poke me about fonts/packaging/bugs/artwork that isn't published yet. [17:23] oreneeshy: introduce yourself? [17:24] Hello am Oren. I do interaction design in the unity team [17:24] i'm Thorsten Wilms, allround-designer. reponsible for a few ubuntu related logos, like the one for spreadubuntu. i'm very interested in interaction design and design methods/processes [17:26] I am interested in developing a community process that will focus on experience journeys rather then UI behaviours [17:26] * MacSlow is here from the Canonical's DX-team to help mentor anything regarding designer->engieer asset-handover/drafting [17:27] * wendar looks through the introductions last time [17:27] jasox and antdillon: hi, welcome, would you like to introduce yourselves? [17:28] I am Jasmin Rahimic, student of IT in Bosnia. I am interested in ubuntu development and design. [17:28] hi im a member of the webteam here at canonical, mainly develop front-end code but work backend if I need to. [17:28] i don't have a lot of design experience. [17:29] I am not a designer im a developer [17:29] we need a little of everything here :) [17:30] I'm Martin Owens, programmer with an interest in design workflow. [17:32] nuthinking: are you here to introduce yourself? [17:32] wendar: Once introductions are over, can you continue with our tasks for the week? [17:33] doctormon: did we finish the summary of the past two weeks? [17:34] onward, then [17:34] [TOPIC] Picking the first project [17:34] (or projects) [17:34] We have 4 candidate projects [17:35] and, this is partly a matter of finding out what people are interested in working on [17:35] so, we may have a couple of threads running with different interest groups [17:36] The first three are small games, which we can use to try out the design workflow of reviewing and approving an existing application. [17:37] The forth is more orieted towards assisting that workfllow, exploring possible tools, and maybe developing some new ones. [17:38] The three games are 4digits, AisleRot, and gbrainy. [17:38] gbrainy is likely to not be on the CD [17:39] AlanBell: dropped dependencies? [17:39] the mono/banshee thing [17:39] without banshee only gbrainy and tomboy need mono [17:40] not that it should stop anything for this team, just throwing it out there as info [17:40] very useful thanks [17:40] AisleRiot was mentioned in the design-sessions at UDS [17:41] I think the main problem with gbrainy is that the questions are not very good, design won't fix that [17:41] * wendar is aiming for general discussion on all three, then vote [17:41] So I think we should pair or group people up who are interest in each idea so they can work on it for the week. [17:41] what are 4digits and aisleriot? [17:42] After all the group doesn't do projects, people do projects ;-) [17:42] sladen: was that general design problems or just a new card deck [17:42] I think it was highlighting that the existing Ubuntu card backs were no longer being picked up [17:43] but if it came up, perhaps that indicators that it has some mindshare [17:43] AlanBell: aisleriot is the gnome card cames [17:43] games [17:43] solitaire, freecell, etc [17:44] http://live.gnome.org/Aisleriot [17:44] wendar: what is the rational for this choices? [17:44] Part of the research should be to look at the comments in the software center too. [17:44] i suspect that aisleriot will not offer much room for improving the ux. with 4digits, the shortcomings of the ui might be part of the game [17:44] oreneeshy: we're looking for something small, that we could do in a week or two [17:45] thorwil: the suggestion for aisleriot was to make an ubuntu-themed set of card images [17:45] ok. [17:45] which means it likely won't be accepted upstream [17:45] Of course not, but we could make a package for an ubuntu theme surely. [17:45] or we could do a non-ubuntu-specific set of art, which might [17:45] oreneeshy: to walk through one full process including (simple) user journeys, design drafts, implementation and launch [17:45] doctormon: yes we could [17:45] makes sense [17:46] oreneeshy: different people will have different interests, but personally, I'm really interested in walking through with your current workflow [17:46] oreneeshy: it was more to test our processes with a real-life, but small scope, project [17:46] oreneeshy: to get a sense of what you do an how [17:47] oreneeshy: (for the people who are interested in tools for workflow, that would be valuable too, as examples) [17:47] 4digits is http://fourdigits.sourceforge.net/ [17:47] wendar: OK we should start to get commitments in the last 12mins of the meeting. [17:47] wendar: sure. the tools are critical in that sense I agree [17:48] I asked the developer if he'd be interested in being an example project for a group of Ubuntu designers, and he was enthusiastic [17:49] did we hear back from asilerot? [17:49] *AisleRot [17:50] 4digits is currently in Debian, will be in Precise (sync'd to universe), but is unlikely to be on the CD [17:50] got to go [17:51] Let's do this as a quick show of hands. [17:52] Who is interested in working on simple design improvements to AisleRot? === Ronnie2 is now known as Ronnie [17:52] No art people in the house? [17:53] Who is interested in working on simple design improvements to 4digits? [17:53] o/ [17:53] \o [17:53] I would like to try. [17:54] great! [17:54] Cool, looks like we have a team for 4digits. [17:55] cool [17:56] We'll start on that this week. [17:56] 4 minutes left, what else do people plan to work on this week? [17:57] I'll be ready with that ethersketch alpha by next week. [17:57] wendar: plan for tools is we do them as they need emerges? [17:57] oreneeshy: there are a group of people interested in tools now, so if you're interested, we should get you all talking [17:58] wendar: sounds good [17:58] oreneeshy: it's very much in the "user journey" phase now, working out the processes designers use, and what would be helpful to them [17:58] * AlanBell wants to know what proprietary tools are used in the current workflow [17:58] AlanBell: Google docs and a whiteboard somewhere in london? ;-) [17:59] storyboarding on google docs? [17:59] I have no idea. [17:59] hence the question :) [18:01] OK, I think we're done for this week. Thank you to all those who came and participated. [18:02] And good luck with your design items for the week. [18:02] Thanks all! [18:02] #endmeeting [18:02] Meeting ended Wed Nov 30 18:02:14 2011 UTC. [18:02] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-design/2011/ubuntu-design.2011-11-30-17.01.moin.txt [18:03] oreneeshy: what tools do you use? [18:04] AlanBell: depends [18:04] white board, paper for sketching [18:05] AI / other tool for WF [18:05] what is AI and WF? [18:05] graphic tool / google docs for specs [18:05] wireframing [18:05] what graphic tool? [18:05] photoshop for mockups [18:06] and what other tool? [18:06] Adoeb Ilustrator [18:06] Omnigraph, Visio, pencil, balsamic [18:06] ok, so what does Adobe Illustrator do that made you choose it for wireframing? [18:07] not much just know it well [18:07] can do more accurate WF with real dimensions [18:08] also works well with other CS tools [18:08] really? you design in cm? no px? [18:08] CS tools? [18:08] other wise it doesn't matter [18:08] computer science? [18:08] creative suite [18:08] Adobe [18:08] adobe stuff again? [18:09] :) [18:09] * AlanBell has never used any of that stuff [18:09] unfortunately... [18:09] so, dimensions, what units do you work in? [18:10] pixels [18:10] err, ok [18:10] what doesn't do pixels?? [18:10] against a reference display and target density [18:11] has to be in a display framework context though [18:11] so scaling between devices could be considered on early stages [18:13] ok, so inkscape does px measurements [18:13] it has a zoom correction factor so you can set the DPI you are aiming for [18:13] not sure I would want to do anything but 100% to be honest [18:14] you can set the export resolution too [18:15] so what is omnigraph? [18:16] visio is a flowcharting thing, I used that a couple of times about 10 years ago [18:16] can draw network diagrams and things too [18:17] Microsoft bought it or something I think [18:17] Omnigraph is educational maths software? [18:18] PCB prototyping? (that sounds fun) [18:19] this thing? http://www.omnigroup.com/products/omnigraphsketcher [18:30] oreneeshy: when you say balsamic I assume you mean balsamiq which is a software as a service thing like pencil? [18:31] AlanBell: yes [18:31] is it better than pencil in any way? [18:31] Dia is an alternative to Visio, I've used it quite a bit [18:31] AlanBell: onmigraph is a wire framing tool [18:32] AlanBell: Pencil is SaaS? [18:32] omnigraffle? [18:32] mhall119: no, balsamiq is like pencil, but SaaS [18:32] oh, ok [18:33] http://konigi.com/tools/omnigraffle-wireframe-stencils that? [18:34] http://www.omnigroup.com/products/omnigraffle/ that appears to be the product maybe? [18:35] AlanBell: yes [18:35] * AlanBell does not know about obscure programs for the mac :) [18:35] AlanBell: I think pencil is more then enough for sketching though [18:36] oreneeshy: can we either look at using open source tools, or formats that are compatible with open source tools? [18:36] mhall119: this is why I am asking [18:36] we can't make having a copy of the CS suite a requirement for community engagement [18:36] mhall119: yes if pencil is OS it should be enough [18:36] it is [18:36] using adobe illustrator errects a £500 barrier to collaboration [18:36] we don't need CS necessarily [18:36] photoshop again [18:36] I think we can start small [18:37] this grapffle thing is $99 [18:37] ttools are just their to express ideas [18:37] we can also use google docs - they have quite good drawing tool [18:37] and the open tools can be adapted and fixed [18:37] many people now use it for WF [18:38] cool [18:38] oreneeshy: I know it's a lot to ask for you guys to abandon the tools you're familiar with, so file compatibility is enough to make me happy [18:39] what I want is for the Free tools to be *better* for designing stuff for Ubuntu [18:39] AlanBell: mhall119 http://mortenjust.com/2010/04/19/a-wireframe-kit-for-google-drawings/ [18:39] omnigrapffle seems to have a heap of templates and stencils for designing stuff for iPad and suchlike [18:39] http://googledocs.blogspot.com/2010/05/rapid-wireframe-sketching-in-google.html [18:39] AlanBell: we've got a couple decades of work to catch up on to get there [18:39] what we don't have is stuff for designing things for Ubuntu [18:39] :) [18:40] AlanBell: that's where I'd like to see an extensive Pencil stencil collection made [18:40] exactly [18:40] for Unity/Ambiance, and also the web themes [18:40] indeed [18:41] once I had my launcher button stencils in Pencil, it was easy to build my Unity TV mockup [18:41] AlanBell: dont know about pencil but g docs can role versioning as well comments and white boarding - so you can sketch and chat on the same page [18:41] versioning is interesting, could store pencil components in bzr [18:42] its also available form any platform [18:42] however doctormon has a plan which is way more exciting [18:42] I am not too bothered about things being available cross platform [18:42] AlanBell: storing Pencil stuff in bzr will be a pain, because it's XML and then it's compressed [18:43] true [18:43] oreneeshy: does g docs let you create reusable widgets, for things like Unity Launcher buttons? [18:44] that's my favorite part of Pencil [18:44] mhall119: it's called stencil and the guy writes on it in the blog post [18:44] u dont have a stencil but you can copy p[aste between docs [18:45] so one doc could be the stencil and people copy paste items between docs [18:45] btw, AlanBell, you can import my Unity stencils into Pencil 1.3.2, I can walk you though [18:45] is there anything in that which makes storyboarding of wireframes interesting? [18:45] mhall119: already done it :) [18:45] I'm going to stick with the 1.2 standalone version, I like it better [18:45] AlanBell: oh, ok, cool [18:46] I want to do an Ubuntu window frame [18:46] AlanBell: +1 [18:46] with turn on and offable buttons and shadow [18:47] and I am going to integrate a comment service on the output I think [18:53] I'm creating a bzr branch for the unity stencils, what project should I push that to? [18:53] or should I create a new project in LP for them? [18:55] wendar: sladen: ^^ [18:55] now that's a good question [18:55] mhall119: it seems sensible to use ubuntu-design [18:56] wendar: is that a project name? [18:56] it's a team, not a project [18:56] right, I need lp:~ubuntu-design//pencil-stencils-unity [18:56] there is ~ubuntu-design and ubuntu-design [18:57] it would be possible to push to lp:~ubuntu-design/ubuntu-design/pencil-stencils-unity [18:57] launchpad.net/ubuntu-design/ has nothing [18:57] but in this case, 'pencil-stencils-unity' is really the project [18:57] so I should make a new LP project then [18:58] or just 'pencil-stencils'? [18:58] yeah [18:58] or ubuntu-pencil-stencils [18:58] AlanBell: i use inkscape for mockups professionally. i don't think it has to stand behind illustrator in this context (illustrator does have some more tricks up its sleaves) [18:59] or in other words, where detailed vector work is needed or beneficial, inkscape does the trick [18:59] now i really have to look into pencil. last time i checked was too early [19:01] was hoping i could use the standalone version, but "Could not find compatible GRE between version 1.9.1 and 1.9.2.*." :/ [19:02] yes, standalone is somewhat dropped [19:02] they don't seem to be building it upstream, and we dropped xulrunner so it wouldn't work anyway [19:02] did we ever establish a moderated team for design? [19:03] ooh, no branches :) [19:03] no branches? [19:03] on open teams [19:03] I thin you can, but no PPAs [19:03] oh, ok [19:04] thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Designs/Pencil [19:05] yes, saw that, ty [19:05] There Xara3D too [19:05] the export template makes storyboards with query fades like this http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unitytelly/ [19:05] which kwwii used to use quite a lot [19:05] doh, set it to the wrong team [19:05] cjohnston: you around? [19:06] at work [19:06] cjohnston: can you add me to ubuntu-design-drafters when you have a minute? [19:06] http://www.xara.com/uk/products/xara3d/features/ this thing that looks like blender? [19:07] AlanBell: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-design/ubuntu-pencil/pencil-stencils-unity [19:07] AlanBell: "make" will create the Unity.zip from the Definition.xml, "make update" will extract the Definition.xml from Unity.zip [19:07] cool [19:08] so if you make changes in Pencil, export the collection to Unity.zip in the branch directory, run "make update", and it should be ready to commit [19:08] we'll just have to be careful when merging [19:08] what is the difference between a private collection and a regular collection? [19:08] AlanBell: I have no idea [19:09] I think private collections get saved in ~/.pencil, rather than the system-wide folder [19:09] ok, because your unity.zip wouldn't import as a regular collection, but got added straight in as a private one [19:09] which probably only made sense on the standalone version [19:09] AlanBell: maybe there's a structural difference too, I don't know [19:10] collection specification not found in archive [19:10] wonder if there is some kind of manifest file that it needs [19:13] hmm... [19:14] k [19:15] just installed the DoJo UI Widgets, that worked fine as a regular collection http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Downloads/Stencils.aspx [19:15] no extra files in the zip, just Definition.xml and some png files [19:16] mhall119: added you to ubuntu-design-drafters [19:17] oh, very different XML [19:19] wendar: thanks [19:31] AlanBell: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-pencil I've made a series for each of our Pencil resources, and put them in bzr branches [19:31] if you want to change the wiki references to use them, instead of our people.u.c uploads [19:36] will do [21:40] Just looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Resources. I would go with Gpick (http://code.google.com/p/gpick/) instead of Agave. Has more features and it is still maintained. === m_conley is now known as m_conley_away [22:22] AlanBell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mhall119/utv/index.html what do you think of the remote with button hilights?