/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/30/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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jasonjanghi ! Mr LaMont, How R U ?06:53
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h01gerhi13:46
ogra_h01ger, !!13:46
ogra_long time no see !13:46
h01gerogra_, indeed!13:55
* h01ger hopes to attend the edu meeting tonite. not sure if i make it though13:56
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* stgraber waves16:00
barryhi all.  i think i'm it today16:00
barry#startmeeting16:00
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Nov 30 16:00:30 2011 UTC.  The chair is barry. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.16:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired16:00
barryslangasek and cjwatson are afk today16:00
stgrabergood, I was just wondering if Steve poked someone about chairing the meeting :)16:01
barryyep, i'm the lucky pokee16:01
barryecho $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jhunt ev bdmurray)16:01
barryjhunt ev stgraber doko barry bdmurray16:01
jhuntWhole week has been taken up with intense rework of Upstart job logging16:01
jhuntcode for user jobs after I discovered a nasty issue. New code is simpler16:01
jhuntand cleaner, but still has a niggly issue I'm currently trying to track16:01
jhuntdown.16:01
jhunt16:02
barryjhunt: i know all about those niggly issues that are hard to track down :)16:02
barryev: you're up, if you're ready16:03
evoh awesome16:03
barryshould we come back around?16:03
ev- still helping the DX team get up to speed on automated testing using jenkins and autopilot16:03
jhuntbarry: yeah, tracing individual file descriptors across 5-process logfiles gets hard (and time consuming :)16:03
ev- hacking away on the reporting daemon, recently adding some unit testing joy16:04
ev(done)16:04
jhuntev: what about starring in a film? :)16:04
evoh yes!16:04
barryautograph time!16:04
ev- engaged in subversion of Nokia's launch of the Lumia phone16:05
stgraber:)16:05
stgraber- ISO testing16:05
stgraber - Currently using the new tracker, fixing stuff as we go16:05
stgraber - Implemented donwload page16:05
stgraber - Worked on some DB sanity check scripts, export/import scripts16:05
stgraber - Working on migration of production server (still need to hear from IS)16:05
stgraber - Dailies are now pushed automatically to the new tracker!16:05
stgraber- Edubuntu16:05
stgraber - Did a bunch of fixes on Sunday16:05
stgraber - Doing ISO testing this week16:05
stgraber- Networking16:05
stgraber - Talked a bit with cyphermox about turning on privacy extensions, he had that turned on on his machine for a while without any problem16:05
stgraber - Poked a bit harder at dnsmasq in Network Manager, found one bug that we'll need to have fixed (DNS not working when using a VPN for default gateway)16:05
stgraber - Ifenslave update in my PPA, waiting to hear back from a customer for testing before uploading to Precise (bug 823366)16:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 823366 in ifenslave-2.6 (Ubuntu) "bond_primary is ignored in /etc/network/interfaces" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82336616:05
stgraber - Discovered that VLAN and bridging are as buggy as bonding, trying to find a solution for that which doesn't involve changing everything :) Details at: http://paste.ubuntu.com/754234/16:05
stgraber- Other16:05
stgraber - Patch pilot on Monday, mostly spent cleaning up the queue from stuff that shouldn't be on it (got rid of 20-30 items)16:05
stgraber- TODO16:05
stgraber - Figure out how to get reliable networking in 12.04 (for complex networks)16:05
stgraber - Look at the new ifupdown in Debian (beta2), isolate the fix for bug 876829 and SRU to Oneiric16:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 876829 in ifupdown (Ubuntu Precise) "Oneiric's ifupdown breaks ip aliases" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87682916:05
stgraber - Still need to get my iSCSI test setup online again and then look at the merge...16:05
stgraber(done)16:06
jhuntstgraber: Are QA + server team aware of your findings yet btw?16:07
cyphermoxstgraber: have you filed a bug about the dnsmasq VPN issue?16:07
stgraberjhunt: gave the link to Clint and Daviey16:08
stgrabercyphermox: doing that now :)16:08
jhuntstgraber: cool.16:08
cyphermoxstgraber: also, without issue is not quite right: I did run into connections blocking when the lifetime of the temporary address times out16:08
barrydoko: you're up16:08
cyphermoxbut that was when I was changing from the default lifetime to something like 30 minutes16:08
stgrabercyphermox: bug 89822416:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 898224 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Wrong dnsmasq configuration when VPN is set as default gateway" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/89822416:09
barryi guess we'll come back to doko16:10
barryshort week due to usa thanksgiving holiday; continuing w/python-dbus py3 porting, still fixing and debugging the stragglers in the test suite (upstream git has some similar failures), but will try to wrap up today or at least, migrate the patches to git and submit upstream.  also: helped various folks with some packaging questions and issues (launchpadlib, and another one for a new employee).  pypy discussions (packaging for16:10
barrydebian). done.16:10
bdmurrayholiday(s)16:11
bdmurrayworking with bug reporting kit in arsenal16:11
bdmurrayrecreation and testing of bug 885442 regarding debconf and installer logs16:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 885442 in debconf (Ubuntu) "Unable to dump debconf database" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88544216:11
bdmurraywork on bug reporting workflow diagram with cprofitt16:11
bdmurrayupdate bug bot not to subscribe sponsors if an ubuntu-dev member added the patch16:11
bdmurrayiso testing bug report review16:11
bdmurrayfixed bug 887705 regarding warning about an unsupported release when upgrading to precise16:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 887705 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "wrong warning about unsupported Ubuntu release when upgrading to precise" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88770516:11
bdmurray done16:11
=== beuno is now known as beuno-lunch
barry#topic bugs16:12
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: bugs
barrybdmurray: what have you got for us today?16:13
bdmurrayas previously mentioned there is some iso testing going on now16:13
bdmurraythe new qa tracker has a new report of defects too and that is at16:14
bdmurrayhttp://91.189.93.73/qatracker/reports/defects/opened16:14
bdmurraylooking at that bug 897896 seems important16:14
ubottuLaunchpad bug 897896 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "keyboard layout wrong choosing a different language for live session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/89789616:14
dokosorry, was still otp16:15
barrydoko: no worries.  whenever you're ready16:16
doko- eglibc-2.15; spent too much time to track down the dynamic loader issues, without success16:16
doko- universe merges16:16
doko- bring down MIR's and component mismatches16:16
doko- finalized eglibc ARM multilib patch together with Steve McIntyre16:16
doko(done)16:16
barrythanks16:17
barryanything else on bugs?16:17
jhuntbdmurray: when does the qa tracker get a dns entry? :)16:17
bdmurrayI thought stgraber said that was up to is right?16:17
stgraberright16:17
stgraberit's currently a canonistack instance, we hope to have production upgrade very soon16:18
bdmurrayI'm also unsure about how to proceed now with bug 89171116:18
ubottuLaunchpad bug 891711 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) ""Upgrade" from 11.10 to 11.04 results in a unusable system" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/89171116:18
bdmurrayIf you insert an 11.04 cd into an 11.10 system you are presented with an option to "upgrade" from 11.10 to 11.0416:18
barryuh, that's not a typo, right?16:19
bdmurraythe same thing happens with 12.04 and 11.1016:19
bdmurrayno not a typo16:19
bdmurrayIt crashes when going from 11.10 to 11.04 and works, afaict, when going from 12.04 to 11.1016:20
bdmurrayHowever, I wonder if it really should appear there as an option at all16:20
bdmurrayas it isn't tested16:21
barryis downgrading even a supported workflow?16:21
stgraberdowngrading isn't supported, though IIRC the installer doesn't "downgrade" your system when you choose that16:21
bdmurrayno, this use case wasn't envisioned16:21
stgraberit essentially wipes the system, keeps your home and reinstalls it16:21
stgraberexcept that some bits that are done on top of that seem to fail16:22
bdmurraybut the old kernel is there and needs to be manually removed16:22
stgraberI'm still not sure we should support that use case and if not, we really should make sure it doesn't appear in the installer (will only work when 12.10 is released though)16:22
bdmurraystgraber: exactly, although we could SRU ubiquity16:23
bdmurraybut its not likely to help much16:23
stgraberyeah, but that'd only work for the limited number of users who actually choose to upgrade ubiquity before installs16:23
=== beuno-lunch is now known as beuno
barryagreed that it probably shouldn't be an option16:24
bdmurrayIt shouldn't be an option because it doesn't work well?16:25
bdmurrayIt seems like there is some demand for doing this16:25
barryit definitely shouldn't say "Upgrade 11.10 to 11.04" :)16:25
bdmurraywell yes there is that16:25
bdmurraybut even if it were renamed should it should appear at all?16:26
jhuntif it's allowable, surely there's an opportunity for us to understand why they are downgrading?16:27
barryi personally think not.  even if it's a workflow that some folks legitimately want, it's likely not very common, and unless it's officially supported and tested, it probably shouldn't be an option (though some documentation can exist to show people how to do it, with all the caveats)16:27
bdmurrayBut maybe this is something we should work on for 12.10...16:28
bdmurrayOr perhaps the real thing to do is to give people a way test the next release on their hardware better16:28
bdmurraythat seems like a better idea to me16:29
barryagreed16:29
barrythough, i don't know how to translate that into an action item ;)16:29
bdmurraywell mvo had mentioned resurrecting the aufs upgrade tester in update-manager16:30
barrybdmurray: do you know if there's an open bug for that? (lp is timing out for me)16:31
bdmurraynot that I know of it was a discussion in a UDS session at UDS P16:31
mvoyeah, sorry, conflicting meeting16:32
mvoI have not actually tried it yet, but I can do that now and see how the aufs stuff goes for lucid->precise16:32
mvoI played with overlayfs and it looks pretty cool, but its not available yet in lucid16:33
bdmurrayDoes it generally work for oneiric->precise though?16:33
mvoso it will only be useful for oneiric->precise testing16:33
mvowell, overlayfs is not in trunk yet in u-m, but porting the existing code should be straightforward16:33
* mvo had some proof-of-concept data for this16:33
barrymvo: could you maybe open a bug on u-m and link a branch (even a prototype) to it?16:35
bdmurrayOkay, so it seems like the upgrade from old release to new release should be removed from ubiquity then16:35
bdmurrayer from new to old16:35
mvobarry: yes, can do. and I will test the aufs lucid->precise one now16:36
bdmurrayI'll submit a separate bug for that and leave 89171116:36
=== Ursinha-lunch is now known as Ursinha
barrybdmurray, mvo thanks16:36
barry#topic aob16:36
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: aob
barryanything else y'all want to bring up?16:36
barrygoing once16:38
barrygoing twice16:38
barry#endmeeting16:39
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Nov 30 16:39:13 2011 UTC.16:39
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-30-16.00.moin.txt16:39
barrythanks everyone!16:39
stgraberthanks!16:39
jhuntthanks16:39
gemahello everyone, we are about to start the new QA meeting16:59
jibelo/17:00
nuclearbob:)17:00
charlie-tcao/17:00
gema#startmeeting QA Meeting17:00
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Nov 30 17:00:29 2011 UTC.  The chair is gema. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.17:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired17:00
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
gemahi everyone and welcome to the new QA meeting17:00
gemaI have seen jibel, nuclearbob and charlie-tca already present, anyone else?17:01
* phillw is here :)17:01
patrickmwo/17:01
gemahi phillw and patrickmw !17:01
gemaok, so we will get started and welcome anyone that joins later17:01
* alourie is present17:02
gemasince this is a new meeting, we don't have previous actions (hi alourie :)17:02
alouriebut only as a listener for now17:02
gemaalourie: no problem17:02
alouriegema: no problem17:02
alourieand hi17:02
gemalet's get on discussing the agenda from now on17:02
gema#topic Discuss new agenda17:02
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic: Discuss new agenda
gemayou can see a proposal of agenda that I put together for today in the meeting page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings17:03
gemathis is just for today, but I think the blueprints update is something we should keep17:03
gemado you guys have more topics to add to the agenda?17:03
gemacharlie-tca: would you like to have a section where you give an update regarding the testing for your distro?17:04
gemaif so, how shall we name that item?17:05
charlie-tcaNot today17:05
gemaok, but going forward?17:05
charlie-tcaIf it will be benificial to know what the Xubuntu tests show, yes17:06
phillwwe can do the same for lubuntu, if our team wishes so (we have a meeting tonight, so I will ask their views).17:06
gemaI believe it is important to see the correlation yes17:06
gemaok, phillw17:06
gemaso I will add a section for status of the different derivatives as well as for Ubuntu17:07
gemawell, for now for Xubuntu and lubuntu17:07
charlie-tcaI cut a finger bad yesterdAY, am only partly here today17:07
gemacharlie-tca: I am sorry to hear :(17:07
phillwsorry to hear charlie-tca :(17:08
charlie-tcaThanks. Will do my beST ANYway17:08
gemano worries, we read you very well, take care :)17:08
gema#action gema to add lubuntu and Xubuntu testing updates to the agenda17:08
meetingologyACTION: gema to add lubuntu and Xubuntu testing updates to the agenda17:08
gemaanything else you'd like to add/remove from the current proposed agenda?17:09
gemaok, so we'll leave there for now and review it as we go along, then17:10
gema#topic Blueprints Update for Precise17:10
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic: Blueprints Update for Precise
gemanow we'll go through all the blueprints that we are working on and give a quick update on them any questions fire as we go along so that we don't lose context17:11
gema#subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-builds-smoke-testing17:11
gemawe have made available this page for everyone to see Precise automated testing results:  https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise/17:11
gemapatrickmw: do you want to explain briefly what is there?17:11
patrickmwsure17:12
patrickmwcurrently there are the automated ISO installer tests, DX unit tests, unity merge tests, boot speed tests and I'm sure I'm missing something17:13
patrickmwmore builds get added weekly17:13
patrickmwah upgrade tests17:13
alourieo/17:13
gemago ahead, alourie17:13
alourieis there a way to see these tests? To find out what is being done and how to participate in them, if possible?17:14
alourieto contribute?17:14
alourie..17:14
patrickmwyes17:14
patrickmwI don't there is a central location, but we can list the launchpad projects on the wiki17:15
alouriethat'd be great17:15
gemacan I give you an action to compile that list to you patrickmw?17:15
patrickmwyes17:15
jibelo/ (question for alourie )17:16
alouriejibel: sure17:16
gema#action patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins17:16
meetingologyACTION: patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins17:16
gemago for it jibel17:16
jibelwhich type of tests would you like to contribute to ?17:16
jibeliso testing, package testing, ... ?17:17
alouriejibel: well, anything. I just want this all to be as transparent as possible for possible contributors to join17:17
alourieme including17:17
jibelok thanks17:17
alourieI would be probably good for ISO testing17:18
alouriebut others may be more apt for other types17:18
alourie..17:18
gemaexcellent, alourie, thanks for the idea and for wanting to contribute17:18
gemawe need as much help as we can get17:19
alouriesure17:19
gemaso there is more stuff going on in this blueprint.. let me see17:19
gemawe are in the process of updating the documentation to be able to interpret the results and troubleshoot failures (information available in the blueprint)17:19
gemawe also are working on a new tagging scheme that will allow us to assess the quality of the automated testing, we are going to start using17:19
gemain the canonical-platform-qa team, these tags for the automated testing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/TestingTypeAndBugTracking17:20
gemawe want to make sure we can assess the quality of these tests we are going to be running and improve them over time17:20
gemathat's all I have, anything else anyone?17:20
gemagood, moving on then17:21
gema#subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-boot-speed-testing17:21
gemapatrickmw ?17:21
patrickmw * Results available here: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/boot-speed/17:21
patrickmw* Jobs available here: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20Boot%20Speed/17:21
patrickmw* Job failures due to NFS boot breaking on yesterdays ISOs.  Bug submitted.17:21
patrickmw* Currently generating benchmark bootcharts for each system (lucid, maverick, natty, oneiric) and they will be available on the Boot Speed Report this week17:21
patrickmw* Following up on NFS Boot bug and will try to run boot speed tests today17:21
patrickmw..17:21
gemacool, let's give some time to people to read in case there is any question17:21
gemanothing.. then moving on17:22
gema#subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-kernel-sru17:22
gemahggdh: do you have an update on this?17:22
* alourie has to leave to put the baby to sleep, hopefully get back in time. :-)17:23
gemawhat I know is what is on the blueprint, that sconklin is working on running rteval tests and trying to package them17:23
gemaI will try to get more feedback for next week17:24
gema#subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-standard-sru-testing17:24
gemajibel ?17:24
jibelnothing from me on this topic this week17:25
gemaok17:25
gema#subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-test-case-management-tool17:25
gemajibel installed an internal instance of litmus and we are evaluating its viability to use for handling our test cases,17:25
gemawe are in the process of setting up an instance that the community can also use and evaluate but we are undergoing review of the tool, etc, by the IS team17:25
gemait will hopefully be ready soon and we will let you know in this meeting17:26
gema#subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-qa-regression-testing17:26
gemanuclearbob: ?17:26
nuclearbobI've got an autotest package building in my ppa17:27
nuclearbobI'm getting that improved and tested on openstack instances, once we get the new lab hardware in, we should be able to get those tests running automatically on new instances ona  regular basis17:27
nuclearboband we can get xml output from that to feed into jenkins17:28
gemaso we will be able to see results in jenkins then17:28
nuclearbobyep17:28
gemaexcellent, thanks17:28
gemaanything else from you?17:28
nuclearbobnope17:28
gema#subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-automated-test-submissions17:28
gemapatrickmw: ?17:29
patrickmwwork has started, nothing to report17:29
gemaok, thanks17:29
gema#subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-backlog17:29
gemathis blueprint is to keep track of all sorts of bits and pieces that we are doing but are not part of the big items we are working on17:29
gemaif there is any question please send us an email and we'll address it17:29
gemaamongst other things we are going to be rewriting the bits and pieces that are obsolete in the ubuntu QA wiki, if anyone wants to collaborate,17:30
gemayou are more than welcome!17:30
gemajust let us know so that we can coordinate the effort17:30
gema#subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-test-case-definition17:30
gemawe discussed a test case definition at UDS and I proposed it to the CoP in canonical, they were happy with it and decided to embrace17:30
gemathat test case definition and start using it widely17:30
gemaso any test cases from now on will probably have that format17:31
gemathis blueprint is finished now, so I will make it disappear from our list of topics to discuss17:31
charlie-tcao/17:31
gemago ahead, charlie-tca17:31
charlie-tcaIs that format available somwplace for community to use?17:31
gemaindeed, just a sec17:31
gemahttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/TestCase17:32
charlie-tcaThank you17:32
gemawe will be putting all the links to all the new content in place, because the wiki is becoming very difficult to navigate17:32
gemano problem17:32
gema#subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-metrics17:32
gemawe haven't started working on this yet, so nothing to report this week17:33
gemathat is it in terms of blueprints, now the big topic of the week17:33
gema#topic Alpha-1 Testing17:33
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic: Alpha-1 Testing
gemajibel: ?17:33
jibelalpha 1 is due tomorrow, coverage could be better, here it is:17:34
=== davidcalle_ is now known as davidcalle
jibelEdubuntu    50.00%17:34
jibelKubuntu     5.56%17:34
jibelLubuntu    42.86%17:34
jibelMythbuntu    Untested17:34
jibelUbuntu    56.63%17:34
jibelUbuntu Server80.00%17:34
jibelXubuntu50.00%17:34
jibelFor Ubuntu, architectures mac and powerpc are untested which explains the low coverage.17:34
jibelDerivatives (especially Kubuntu) need your help for A1 testing.17:34
jibelNo release blocker bug found at the moment.17:34
jibelThe list of defects is available at http://91.189.93.73/qatracker/reports/defects/opened17:35
jibelOne is particularly annoying (bug 894768) it's easily reproducible in VMs but we have one report where it fails on hardware.17:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 894768 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "Installation randomly fails with: File "/usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/install_misc.py", line 621, in copy_file targetfh.write(buf) IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument " [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/89476817:35
jibelIf you've spare hardware and can install Ubuntu Precise Desktop _i386_ on it, then you can try to confirm this bug. that would help a lot.17:35
jibelFor this milestone we are using a new version of the iso tracker rewritten in Drupal 7, thanks to stgraber17:36
jibelDetails on ubuntu-devel mailing list https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-November/034495.html17:36
jibel..17:36
jibelquestions ?17:36
jibelor comments17:36
gemadoesn't look like it17:37
gemathanks for the update, jibel17:37
mike-gabrielhelp17:37
mike-gabrielignore...17:37
gemaok...17:38
gemaso moving on17:38
gema#topic Other Topics17:38
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic: Other Topics
gemaany other topics or issues you'd like to bring up?17:38
gemaregarding the chairing of the meeting, I think we shouldn't force people to do it with a shuff17:39
gemaif someone wants they can, if not, I will be doing it17:39
gemaor if I am not able to , I hope someone will volunteer :D17:40
gemabut I think forcing people to chair may have detracted some collaborators from showing up17:40
gemajust a theory17:40
phillwgema: I'll cover chairing if needed in an emergency :)17:40
gemaI will try to put an agenda that makes sense for next week and then I will offer the chairing of the next meeting in case anyone wants to do it the week after next17:41
gemathanks a lot, phillw :)17:41
gemaok, so any thoughts regarding the new format, better, worse, are we missing anything?17:41
patrickmwits good17:41
nuclearbobyeah17:41
nuclearbobI think if we're missing anything it'll come up and we can add it17:42
gemayep, I am very glad that so many new faces were here today17:42
charlie-tca+117:42
gemalet's keep the momentum going and see if we can build a good QA community around this meeting :)17:42
gemathank you everyone for your time, see you next week!17:43
gema#endmeeting17:43
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Nov 30 17:43:46 2011 UTC.17:43
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-30-17.00.moin.txt17:43
charlie-tcaTank you for chairing17:43
phillwgema: thansk for chairing17:44
jibelthanks you gema17:44
gemanot a problem , thank you for coming and staying for the whole thing :D17:44
gemaI am staying to the bugs one now, because I need to tell them about our new tagging x)17:44
phillwgema: just on the thoughts of progress from Lubuntu, our head of Devel did issue an email each week on progress last cycle. If he is doing same this cycle, would you like it linked to the Lubuntu area on the testing area?17:45
tenachI always come in at the end of meetings or just after them...17:45
phillwhiyas tenach LTNS :)17:45
tenachHi there phillw! Yeah, it really has been.17:46
gemaphillw: is this report about testing or about development strictly?17:46
gematenach: you'll make it next week , I am sure!17:46
phillwit covers a summary of known bugs etc.17:46
tenachgema: Yeah! I'm sure I will too.17:46
gemaphillw: maybe you could forward that to the ubuntu-qa list17:46
gemaphillw: so that we all benefit from it17:47
phillwI'll ask Julien at 20:00 UTC :)17:47
gemaphillw: cool :)17:47
phillwhe he, just had to check, it is being held on here..17:48
gemayep,no probs17:49
pedro_hello!18:00
bil21alhi18:00
komputeshi pedro_18:00
charlie-tcao/18:00
pedro_lets start with the meeting18:00
pedro_#startmeeting18:00
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Nov 30 18:00:51 2011 UTC.  The chair is pedro_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.18:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired18:00
pedro_Welcome to our first Bugs meeting !18:01
gemao/18:01
pedro_as you might know the QA meeting was divided in two so this is the second part of it18:01
* alourie is back18:01
alourieah18:01
alouriemissed it18:01
pedro_The agenda can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meetings18:01
mfischis the bugs meeting weekly now at this time?  the wiki is inconsistent on that18:02
pedro_there's not much items there so if you have any please keep it for the 'Others topics' topic18:02
pedro_mfisch, yeah we need to update it based on a discussion ie: should we keep the monthly bugsquad meeting or not?18:03
pedro_ok so first topic18:03
pedro_[TOPIC] Previous Actions18:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions
pedro_there was no previous actions so lets continue18:03
pedro_[TOPIC] Engineering Team Bug Status18:04
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Engineering Team Bug Status
pedro_bdmurray, Ursinha anything you'd like to share?18:04
Ursinhanothing in particular :)18:04
bdmurrayI fixed a bug yesterday which is a bit odd18:04
bdmurraybug 88770518:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 887705 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "wrong warning about unsupported Ubuntu release when upgrading to precise" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88770518:05
bdmurrayThe gist of it is that update-manager reads infromation from meta-release files on changelogs.ubuntu.com to determine what releases are supported etec18:05
bdmurrayso while you see the bug in update-manager it requires a fix in those files18:06
bdmurraykind of wacky and I thought that might be good to know18:06
bdmurrayI've also been working with cprofitt on a bug reporting workflow diagram18:07
bdmurrayThere may very well be duplicates of bug 894768 being reported18:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 894768 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "Installation randomly fails with: File "/usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/install_misc.py", line 621, in copy_file targetfh.write(buf) IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument " [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/89476818:09
bdmurraybecause it fails with different files bugs require manual inspection18:09
bdmurraythat's all I have18:10
pedro_i was pinged by our QA folks regarding a failures they were seeing during the upgrade testing18:10
pedro_so in the end it was bug 89382618:10
ubottuLaunchpad bug 893826 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu Precise) "symlinked docs are different between architectures, depending on dpkg-deb package order" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/89382618:10
pedro_it was fixed recently but worth keep an eye in case there's some dups18:11
pedro_anything else, anyone ?18:11
pedro_[TOPIC] Other Topics18:12
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other Topics
gemao/18:12
pedro_gema, please go ahead18:12
gemawe (QA-platform team) are working on a new tagging scheme that will allow us to assess the quality of the automated testing, we are going to start using18:12
gemathese tags for the automated testing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/TestingTypeAndBugTracking18:13
gemajust wanted to let you know we are going to be using them to be able to track things and generate reports for ISO testing18:13
gemaplease, do not remove those tags :)18:13
gemawe haven't started, so if you have any suggestions, also welcome18:13
gema..18:13
bdmurraygema: Does "upgrade testing" mean distribution upgrade or package upgrade?18:14
gemafor now, it means distribution upgrade18:14
gemawe are not doing any package upgrade testing yet18:14
nailorao/18:14
pedro_nailora, stage is all yours18:15
nailorai sent a mail to the bugsquad mailing list yesterday https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2011-November/003552.html18:15
pedro_(thanks gema!)18:15
gema(np)18:15
nailoraafter pedos invitiation i thought it might be brought up here18:16
nailora(if you are not prepared, nevermind, i will be happy to get replies via email)18:16
nailorabascially it is about what to do about unsupported hardware and an overload of bug reports18:17
janak_devhi18:19
bdmurraynailora: Have you heard of apport package hooks?18:19
bdmurrayWith these you can change the bug reporting experience for reporters18:19
nailorai do know a little bit about them, it might help to improve the situation for the future18:21
pedro_is there any page for DebuggingScanners? like the DebuggingPrinting one? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingPrintingProblems18:21
njinnope18:22
bdmurrayThis would help gather the information for bugs and could prevent bug reporting18:22
pedro_nailora, perhaps contact the developers/maintainers to help to create such page? that way you can also point reports there to start collecting more useful information18:22
pedro_s/reports/reporters/g18:23
nailorai am in contact with the developer, and i will create some wiki pages, one as a landing page that can be cited in bug reports to explain why they are not that helpful and one similar to the page mentioned for printers18:24
pedro_nailora, awesome, thank you18:25
pedro_any other thoughts on nailora's topic?18:25
bdmurrayI'll reply to the email later today18:25
pedro_thanks bdmurray18:26
bdmurrayI think its important to prevent bugs from coming in if that's really what you want18:26
bdmurrayI mean you could close them all but they'll just come back18:26
micahgo/18:27
bdmurrayso have the reporting process be as informative as possible18:27
pedro_micahg, please go ahead18:27
micahgso, this is about the simple scan bug thread right?18:27
bdmurrayyes18:28
micahgok, so I just wanted to point out that if there is a bug somewhere, that we should try to get it to the right place, open bugs isn't a problem as long as they're valid (i.e. if the problem is in SANE or some other component, move it to the right place), if it's truly not a bug, just configuration help or what not, then we can convert to question18:29
micahg..18:30
pedro_thanks micahg18:32
pedro_I have a topic as well18:32
pedro_since the meetings are now divided into Testing and Bugs , should we delete the Monthly BugSquad Meeting and start adding such topics to this one?18:33
bdmurraythat makes sense to me18:33
charlie-tca+118:34
bil21alsure18:34
micahg+118:34
bil21al+118:34
h01gerogra_, i've been online too long today, i need to go afk.. sorry that i'll miss the meeting, have fun & good results!18:34
pedro_ok sounds good, lets do it , i'll update the wiki page and send an email with the info18:35
ogra_h01ger, heh, thanks, i'm not in edu stuff anymore though, but i'll tell the guys in #edubuntu18:35
pedro_[ACTION] pedro_ to update wiki + send email re the BugSquad Meeting18:35
meetingologyACTION: pedro_ to update wiki + send email re the BugSquad Meeting18:35
pedro_and last for me, please notice that the Mentorship program is now closed18:36
pedro_hggdh,  sent an email about that https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2011-November/003550.html18:37
pedro_thanks hggdh for taking care of it :-)18:37
pedro_anything else? any extra topic?18:37
pedro_seems not18:38
njinpedro_: do you want to mentor me next mopnths ?18:38
pedro_[TOPIC] Chair Selection18:38
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Chair Selection
pedro_njin, we can 'all' mentor you, just ask in the #ubuntu-bugs channel :-)18:38
njin:-)18:39
pedro_so who'd like to chair the next meeting?18:39
bdmurrayo/18:40
pedro_thanks bdmurray18:40
pedro_[ACTION] bdmurray to chair next meeting18:40
meetingologyACTION: bdmurray to chair next meeting18:40
pedro_ok seems that's all for today18:40
pedro_thanks all !18:41
pedro_#endmeeting18:41
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Nov 30 18:41:11 2011 UTC.18:41
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-30-18.00.moin.txt18:41
charlie-tcaThanks for chairing18:41
pedro_no problem18:41
janak_devh18:49
* stgraber waves (and disappears for 5 minutes)19:00
dgroosHowdy Edu-Linuxistas of various flavors19:01
alkisgHey all19:02
* mike-gabriel says hi (Debian Edu)19:02
arntoghey all (debian edu)19:02
* mike-gabriel is present mainly read-only and has to leave before end of session19:03
kaarenoHi19:03
highvoltageeek19:06
highvoltagesorry I've been following a live podcast and lost track of time19:07
stgraberhey highvoltage19:07
highvoltagegood evening/afternoon everyone :)19:07
highvoltagewho else is here for the Edubuntu meeting?19:07
stgraberI think that's quite a bit more than usual already :)19:08
highvoltageour not-so-often updated Agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda19:08
highvoltagehehe, indeed19:08
stgrabermike-gabriel: oh, forgot you're also a Debian edu guy :)19:08
highvoltagestgraber: is it ok if we jump into the debian-edu stuff?19:08
mike-gabrielstgraber: hi, I have to leave early, probably and cannot not write that much (other appointment)19:09
stgraberhighvoltage: no problem with that, as I said in #edubuntu, I'm not really around anyway19:09
highvoltageI just want to give a little background, Debian-Edu has a script to incorporate an Ubuntu machine into a Debian-EDU LDAP network19:09
highvoltagewe wanted to incorporate it but ran out of time19:10
highvoltagethis release, stgraber is working on an authentication step in the edubuntu installer to authenticate against LDAP or AD19:10
mike-gabrielhighvoltage: not quite correct: there is the package debian-edu-config that integrates a debian desktop into a skolelinux network19:10
highvoltagemike-gabriel: aah19:10
highvoltagewell, so I added it to this meeting agenda so that we could perhaps get some low-latency communication19:11
mike-gabrielthe d-e-c package is also in Ubuntu btw. but probably in some random version...19:11
highvoltagestgraber: which is why I hope you could give attention for a minute or two19:11
mike-gabrielyes, I'm there.19:11
stgraberok, sounds interesting and we should definitely look into it19:12
highvoltagemike-gabriel: is there anything special about the debian-edu ldap configuration? I was talking to stgraber about it a while back and we're kind of hoping that the usual ldap option would work for debian-edu19:12
mike-gabrielthe debian-edu-config package is highly complex, otherwise I would say that you check out the code and take a look. But taking a look really takes time in that case...19:12
stgraberfor 12.04 I still think our best bet at supporting the biggest variety of setup without much trouble is to use sssd as it's going to be one single tool for pam/nss/kerberos and works with regular openldap, AD, edirectory, ...19:12
stgraberFWIW I only plan on spending an hour or two implementing that feature for 12.0419:12
mike-gabrielin d-e everything is based on DNS19:12
mike-gabrielldap.intern is the LDAP CNAME in DNS19:13
highvoltagestgraber: ok19:13
highvoltagemike-gabriel: which source package should we look at? just the one in the debian archives?19:13
mike-gabrield-e-c squeeze will use kerberos, so there also is a KDC in the net: tjener.intern19:13
stgrabermike-gabriel: are you also using the "standard" DNS records? if so, sssd's auto-config script should work with debian edu19:13
mike-gabrieldue to kerberos restriction we have to use the fqdn tjener.intern (tjener is bokmal, I guess, that is one of the no dialects/language for server).19:14
mike-gabrielthen there is a autofs config hidden in LDAP19:14
mike-gabriel/skole/<host>/home<X>19:14
mike-gabrielvia NFSv4, planned is to use sec=krb5i, but we still have no concept how to distribute the host/<machine> principals during installation19:15
mike-gabrielthen: skolelinux machines grab there hostname from DHCP during boot, for this network-manager is tweaked19:15
stgrabersssd looks for ldap.<domain> and kerberos.<domain> by default, if these don't work, it falls back to microsoft's _kerberos.<domain>, _kerberos._tcp.<domain>, ...19:16
mike-gabrielthat is: in GOsa² (LDAP-tool used in d-e squeeze) you add a host and give IP, MAC, DNS name and the host will boot into it's correct name19:16
mike-gabrielthere also are netgroups, e.g. for shutdownatnight19:16
mike-gabrieland for NFSv4 access, so edubuntu clients should take netgroups libnss-ldap19:17
* highvoltage is absorbing all of this19:17
mike-gabrielthe main problem I currently see+face: having skolelinux workstations on the net and having ubuntu machines on the net, too.19:18
highvoltageI guess it would be a good start just to have debian-edu-config working on edubuntu19:18
mike-gabrielBoth systems will use different software versions (GNOME 2.X and 2.Y), LibreOffice vs. Openoffice, etc.19:18
highvoltageok, edubuntu 12.04 won't have any gnome 2.x in it though19:19
mike-gabrielI have a school here that wants a recipe for ubuntu desktop integration into the network (including server-side homes). I currently do not dare to run ubuntu clients and debian edu clients on the same homes...19:19
mike-gabrielwhat will be in edubuntu 12.04? Unity?19:20
stgrabersorry guys, got to go for a while now, LTSP failed to install in alpha-1, need to fix it19:20
highvoltageyes, unity, and as an alternate option, gnome 3 fallback (which is basically the gnome 2 desktop on gnome 3)19:20
highvoltageok thanks stgraber19:20
mike-gabrielso, gnome3 won't cause a problem now, but maybe later, when we talk about debian edu wheezy (which will use gnome3 then as well).19:21
mike-gabrielI guess my approach for mixed networks will be to auto-create local homes on ubuntu machines and symlink the XDG folders to the corresponding folders in the homes on TJENER (main server)19:22
highvoltagemike-gabriel: I can take some time on Friday to try out debian-edu-config on Edubuntu and see where that gets us and write up an email about it. I have no idea what to expect but perhaps it would be as simple as updating some package names/paths?19:22
highvoltagewould that be useful?19:22
mike-gabrieldebian-edu-config provides many configs that will override configs of other packages, so beware.19:22
highvoltagethat sounds very, very undebiany :)19:23
mike-gabrielsee Debian BTS #31118819:23
highvoltageI'll be sure to run it in a VM19:23
mike-gabrielthen debian-edu-config partially does things on installation, partially it provides many many helper scripts, CRONS, etc.19:23
mike-gabrielthen there are some scripts that are only needed during main server installation (a complete LDAP bootstrap, autoconfiguration of a Samba3 PDC, etc.19:24
highvoltageis there perhaps a wiki page or something about it?19:24
mike-gabrielso, you definitely do not need the whole d-e-c package19:24
mike-gabrielhttp://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu19:25
mike-gabrieland there is a good Skolelinux book by Klaus Ade Johnstad (and others) that applies to Debian Edu lenny...19:25
highvoltageok19:26
mike-gabrielsearch for something like this: http://www.skolelinux.no/~klaus/newnotater/index.html19:26
mike-gabrielprobably the link does not provide the newest version19:26
highvoltagethe next edubuntu version will be LTS (long-term support) which we'll have to support for 5 years19:26
highvoltageso we're very weary of including something that might potentially be a support nightmare19:27
mike-gabrielnormally, the critical part about skolelinux is the main server (and its correct bootstrap on installation)19:27
highvoltageok19:27
mike-gabrielI know several setups with an etch server and squeeze clients (although d-e-c squeeze is not released yet).19:27
mike-gabrielthe project SVN repos is on Alioth. You need an account and a public SSH key deposited there.19:28
highvoltageShould I be able to set it up fine with Debian Edu 6.0?19:28
highvoltage(the server part, that is)19:28
mike-gabrielthere is a test DVD you can download: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/TestCDinstall19:29
* mike-gabriel always needs time to find this link via search engine...19:29
mike-gabrielThis test CD is sometime broken but not at the moment (as much as I know)19:30
mike-gabrielThen there will be an inofficial Debian Edu sprint at the coming weekend.19:30
highvoltageok19:30
mike-gabrielwe will be discussing on irc.debian.org #debian-edu channel19:30
highvoltageI'll be there. I have a lot happening on Saturday, but on Sunday I could probably look at those client side scripts and ask some questions about it if it won't cause too much interuption to the sprint19:31
mike-gabrielI guess that will be fine, however, I will only be there on friday night and saturday afternoon/night (CET)19:32
mike-gabrielhmmm...19:32
mike-gabrielI guess best strategy would be for you19:33
mike-gabrielinstall a TJENER19:33
highvoltageok, I'm in the same timezone and I can be there saturday night19:33
mike-gabrielinstall a normal Ubuntu workstation19:33
mike-gabrielare you? I though you were canadian...19:33
mike-gabrielthen on the workstation, do all the fancy client integration stuff a unix workstation needs19:34
mike-gabrielNTP -> ntp.intern (I think)19:34
mike-gabrielLDAP -> ldap.intern19:34
mike-gabrielKerberos -> tjener.intern19:34
mike-gabrielNFS -> AutoFs from LDAP19:34
highvoltagemike-gabriel: I live in Canada now, but I'm South African and back in South Africa for a few months :)19:35
mike-gabrielNFS access control via netgroup19:35
mike-gabriel:-)19:35
mike-gabrielshutdown-at-night control via netgroup19:35
* highvoltage copies and pastes this in a note for later19:35
* mike-gabriel wonders what else...19:35
mike-gabrielyep19:35
mike-gabrielof course, libnss-ldap for users/groups and libpam-krb5 for Krb5-Auth19:36
highvoltagelong-term (like, a year from now), we'd also like to revive the Edubuntu Server side19:36
highvoltagepossibly also using some of the cool new stuff like FreeIPA19:36
mike-gabrielok!!!19:36
highvoltagewould Debian-Edu perhaps be interested in also investigating things like that for wheezy+1?19:37
mike-gabrielcups-client setup19:37
mike-gabrielBrowsePoll for ipp.intern19:37
mike-gabrieldhcp-client including host-derival from DHCP19:37
mike-gabrielDNS -> 10.0.2.2 (TJENER)19:37
mike-gabrielGateway 10.0.2.119:37
highvoltagethat's hard-coded ?19:37
mike-gabrielOh, yes. Please read about the skolelinux network!!! The main server always is on 10.0.2.2, the gateway on 10.0.2.1.19:38
mike-gabrielThe gateway should be something like freedombox or ipfire or ipcop or similar.19:38
mike-gabrielahh.... squid proxy running on webcache.intern19:39
highvoltageok, will do19:39
mike-gabrielso, in d-e-c there is a default firefox config that's really nice (disables the network options, so users cannot disable the proxy setup in firefox/iceweasel)19:39
mike-gabrielok, will do means stop?19:40
highvoltagenope :)19:40
mike-gabriel:-)19:40
mike-gabrielok...19:40
highvoltagewill do = I'll go read the network docs19:40
arntoghighvoltage, we will have a small gathering in Trondheim, Norway this weekend, to get some more hands-on experince with debianedu, but it is possible that we play around with a ubuntu/edubuntu client as well19:40
mike-gabrield-e-c also provides a wpad.dat for browser auto-configuration19:40
mike-gabrielhi arnt19:40
highvoltagearntog: nice19:40
arntoghighvoltage, I know some of the people that will participate is in to ubuntu as well :)19:40
arntoghi mike-gabriel19:41
mike-gabrielthe advantage of a pre-defined network setup is certification for supporters.19:41
highvoltagewe need to figure out how we want to handle some types of configuration in edubuntu as well, we had some tools for gnome and desktop stuff that are no longer support19:41
mike-gabrielonce you know how d-e works you can support any school that runs it.19:41
highvoltage*supported19:42
mike-gabrielof course, there will be customizations on site, but the basis is really fixed.19:42
highvoltagebut I guess that should be seperate from the authentication stuff since someone might want to use a configuration manager or something else for that19:42
mike-gabrielonce you have a ubuntu client working within a skolelinux network, it might become really interesting to provide this edubuntu desktop as a diskless workstation. Skolelinux has a terminal server profile that pre-configures an LTSP server (that I normally tweak and transform into an X2Go server).19:44
mike-gabrieland as a side product (intentionally) the LTSP server profile also offers diskless workstations.19:44
highvoltagearntog, mike-gabriel: I've copied and pasted mike-gabriel's suggestions in a note, I'll be reading those suggested docs and do a debian-edu server / ubuntu client installation and check in over the weekend for some questions, updates and feedback.19:44
mike-gabrielOur schools here in Nothern Germany love that...19:44
mike-gabrielYes, do so. I will be only 24/7 so I may answer questions later whenever I see that you wrote...19:45
highvoltageI think I'll write another update to everyone about it in 2 weeks or so to keep everyone in the loop (I think a month when we have a meeting again is too long), does that sound ok?19:45
mike-gabrielok!19:45
highvoltagemike-gabriel: ok19:45
arntogok19:45
highvoltageand if there's anything else, feel free to poke us on #edubuntu on this network as well19:46
mike-gabrielsure!19:47
highvoltagestgraber, alkisg and myself are usually there and if not, we tend to leave our session open somewhere19:47
mike-gabrielright!19:47
* highvoltage can't think of anything more at this point (been up since way too early :) )19:47
mike-gabrielsame with me (and h0lger, who is release manager of d-e) on irc.debian.org #debian-edu19:47
highvoltageok, I'm usually always there19:47
mike-gabrielpop in on #debian-edu at the weekend and we will discuss more19:48
highvoltageI will do so19:48
highvoltagewell, thanks guys!19:48
mike-gabrielthanks!19:48
arntogthanks19:48
stgraberlooks like the longest edubuntu meeting ever ;)19:49
highvoltagestgraber: at least, longest one in a while :)19:49
alkisg:)19:49
dgroosand 200 people ;)19:50
highvoltagebtw, Edubuntu Council elections will be running soon, I was supposed to send the list of nominations to the CC on Monday, but haven't had the time.19:50
highvoltageI'll do so tomorrow.19:50
highvoltageWe've also started our application for LTS with the Technical Board19:50
highvoltagewe're applying for 5 years LTS on conditional on Kubuntu also getting 5 years LTS status19:51
highvoltageotherwise we'll also do the 3 year support thing with them19:51
highvoltagewe also have to produce a list of packages that we want to support for the next TB meeting19:51
highvoltageI'll post about that to the list19:52
highvoltageand stgraber got the todo list item to poke Kubuntu to apply (they haven't yet) but I've gone ahead and done some pokage too :)19:52
highvoltagethere's 7 minutes left, anything else before we wrap up?19:52
dgroosHas the meeting agenda been updated to reflect current interests?19:53
stgraberalpha-1 will be released tomorrow, anyone who took action items at UDS should make sure they either have these targeted for a1 done or consider moving them to a219:53
highvoltagedgroos: anyone is free to edit the wiki page to add their interests, I guess it could do with some cleanup and updates19:54
highvoltagestgraber: I'm moving the wallpaper / installer slideshow stuff to a2, but I think we discussed that already19:54
dgroosI saw the community item of, "Provide 'beginners' with basic but complete setup instructions.19:54
stgraberhighvoltage: FWIW I updated the slideshow on Sunday (nothing big, just dropping gbrainy, changing the welcome slide and updating the under the hood stuff)19:55
dgrooswas that from last time I was at a meeting?  looks like something I might have put up :)19:55
highvoltagedgroos: we still have *lots* of requests for that to the edubuntu-contac address. it's very much in demand, there's one person who contacted us who wants to work on something though19:55
highvoltagedgroos: might have been, it's been there  along time19:56
dgroos'k19:56
dgroosSeems like it's a tough goal because of the 6-month Ubuntu update where things can change so much.19:57
highvoltageindeed. would be nice to have it at least for the LTS's19:57
dgroosBut having something like greatly lowers the entry bar.19:57
highvoltagewe have some docs that we maintian on edubuntu.org for each release19:57
dgrooshighvoltage: good goal...19:57
highvoltagethe basics like: how to install edubuntu, how to install ltsp, links to upstream docs19:57
highvoltagebut it's not something that you can really print and bind in a book or something19:58
dgroosCould we have that mirrored in a few places?19:58
dgroosAre those docs on edubuntu.org in a wiki?19:58
highvoltageI guess we could. Personally I just have zero time right now to take that on, but I'd gladly provide anyone who wants to with the information or help that they might need19:59
highvoltagenope, just pages on the edubuntu website. so for now they're not translated (or at least not translated where you can easily find them)19:59
highvoltageI'm not so sure that wikis are the best place to do documentaiton either20:00
dgroosWell, maybe having it mirrored might not be the solution.20:00
highvoltageindeed20:00
stgraberwe moved stuff to the website because wiki was a mess to keep updated and to know what's on it20:00
dgroosTrue, maybe docs don't belong on wiki, or at least for an LTS.20:00
dgroosright.20:00
stgrabercurrently anything that's on the website gets updated for sure for every release (also the reason why we keep what's on the website to a minimum)20:01
highvoltageI'd like to have more of our documentation packaged so that we could actually ship it with the system20:01
kalosaurusrexIs someone from the QA Team (a team leader perhaps?) around?20:01
highvoltagebut since we usually update our docs single days before our release (it's the only time we have to do it) it's too late for that20:01
dgroosI think docs on Edubuntu.org is a fine solution though.20:02
stgraberkalosaurusrex: this is the Ubuntu meeting channel, we're currently in an Edubuntu meeting. I'd suggest #ubuntu-quality20:02
highvoltagethe website is also usually the first place people look for it20:02
highvoltageand http://edubuntu.org/documentation isn't hard to find, at least20:02
dgroosI guess I haven't been there much in a while.  I'll check it out again.20:02
highvoltagebut yes, any help on that would be appreciated20:03
jmarsden|workstgraber: Isn't there an Lubuntu meeting here at 20:00 UTC?  Or am I confused?20:04
highvoltagefor every hour someone spends on docs they're probably saving many hours for lots of people out there20:04
highvoltageI guess we should wrap up Edubuntu then if we're spilling over.20:04
highvoltagethanks everyone!20:04
dgroosFor sure.  I'll check it out and get back to you.20:04
stgraberjmarsden|work: quite possible, our meeting just went over the 1 hour mark :)20:04
jmarsden|workstgraber: OK, thanks.20:04
highvoltageMeeting adjourned, #edubuntu is open 24/7 as always :)20:04
wxlwell we're the last hour so we can go over as much as possible ;)20:05
wxlwe've got 8 hours until the next meeting. let's make the best out of it!20:05
* jmarsden|work only has a 1 hour lunch break... asking for an 8 hour lunch break might get me some funny looks :)20:06
wxlheh20:06
gilirwxl, I'll not be able to talk during 8h :)20:06
wxlok, enough jokes, let's get this party started, gilir20:06
stephen-smallylet's start the meeting, i've math tomorrow20:07
gilir#startmeeting20:07
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Nov 30 20:07:23 2011 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.20:07
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired20:07
gilirAgenda is available here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda20:07
gilir[TOPIC] Show of hands to gauge attendance20:08
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Show of hands to gauge attendance
* wxl shows both hands20:08
giliro/20:08
wxl\o/20:08
jmarsden|worko/20:08
gilirYorvyk, here ? :)20:08
* phillw present20:08
* Unit193 20:09
david_j_ro) (numpty user - lurking)20:09
stephen-smallyo/20:09
gilir[TOPIC] Review ACTIONS from the last meeting20:10
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
gilirquick review of last week actions20:10
gilirpeople still comment on the website page20:10
gilirI hope to have enough information for next week to decide something20:11
wxlfrom what i read briefly on the mailing list it sounds like the splinter group we had is now working with mario and they're working on a new proposal. sounds like it's happening20:11
gilirAlpha 1 ISO testing, if you want to help : http://91.189.93.73/ :)20:11
wxlon that subject julien said he will endeavour to get ppc to be included in the next round of testing20:12
gilirand work in progress for lxscreenshot20:12
gilirit seems that Yorvyk is not here, so I let his items for now20:14
gilir[TOPIC] Discuss ARM ISO for Lubuntu20:14
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Discuss ARM ISO for Lubuntu
phillwspeak of the devil :)20:14
stephen-smallyoh, i would like ARM isos20:15
wxli could see if i could get it going on my palm pre ;)20:15
gilirwell the problem is to have hardware + people who want to test ISOs during the cycle :)20:15
stephen-smallyi would like to put in on the RaspBerty PI, i will buy it during christmas20:16
stephen-smally*RaspBerry Pi20:16
gilirsome volunteers ? :)20:16
jmarsden|workgilir: Does ARM mean ARMv7 and later?  Note the very low cost Rasperry Pi board will be out in December but it uses ARMv6, the project is more or less giving up on Lubuntu because Ubuntu does not officially do ARMv6...20:16
gilirjmarsden|work, it will be the same than Ubuntu20:16
jmarsden|workOK, so stephen-smally ... note you won't be able to run Lubuntu on a Rasperry Pi.20:17
stephen-smallydamn, that's why i'm switching to arch XD20:17
wxlthe pre has an armv720:17
wxli'd be into giving it a shot20:17
gilirwell, maybe for the short term, sending a mail to the mailing list explaning the situation20:18
gilirI'm not sure there are enough people to test + debug problems on ARM for lubuntu currently :)20:19
stephen-smallyagree20:19
gilirand +1 arch is probably enough for this cycle :)20:19
jmarsden|workgilir: I tend to agree; Rasperbby Pi support would get us more (I'd buy a board or two) ... but I'm not buying a $200 board just to test ARMv7.20:20
gilir[ACTION] Send a mail about ARM ISO on the mailing list20:20
meetingologyACTION: Send a mail about ARM ISO on the mailing list20:20
gilirok let's go the next topic20:20
wxlagree.. i think arm is going to be increasingly important, but it's not a huge hot button right now20:20
gilir[TOPIC] Addition of progress report on QA area20:21
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Addition of progress report on QA area
stephen-smallyo/ question20:21
gilirphillw, it's yours :)20:21
phillwit was mooted and pretty much agreed at the QA meeting that an update of the progress be linked to the QA wiki area.20:21
phillwI was kinda hoping gilir will be doing the weekly emails this cycle?20:22
phillwLunbuntu got 43% sign off for pre-alpha1 testing (not too bad... Ubuntu only got 57%).20:22
gilirphillw, what do you mean by a weekly email ? about QA ?20:22
gilirah the ISO testing ?20:22
jmarsden|workphillw: Isn't seeing the work item updates in the blueprints acceptable to QA?  Why create another document?20:23
phillwgilir: an update as to any bugs solved / known etc in a digest format.20:23
phillwjmarsden|work: they have are adding sections for Xubuntu & Lubuntu.20:23
gilirphillw, do you have a link ? for an example ?20:24
phillwIt is to encourage testers to try and test more areas.20:24
jmarsden|work+1 for link/example :)20:24
phillwgilir: it was only agreed 2 hours ago, it is to be set up.20:24
* gilir look at the log20:25
jmarsden|workphillw: Is there one for "big brother" Ubuntu already?  Or was *that* only agreed 2 hours ago too?20:25
phillw(17:09:49) gema: #action gema to add lubuntu and Xubuntu testing updates to the agenda20:25
phillwthey will as part of that add a section to QA area for both flavours.20:26
jmarsden|workphillw: Is there a section like it for Unity-based Ubuntu already, and if so, link please?20:27
gilirphillw, that means we need to do a status of bug fixed for this meeting ?20:27
phillwI suggested that we use the update that gilir issues to keep the QA team up to date, they also asked that I cc it to the qa mailing list.20:27
phillwIt is early days, they are bringing in new stuff for this cycle,20:28
jmarsden|workSo we're being asked to do something for which there is no example or template?  Hmmm.20:29
phillwfor those interested in testing then the meeting logs are at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-30-17.00.moin.txt20:29
phillwjmarsden|work: there are templates, they were discussed, but mainly it is about getting the pre-milestones 100% tested.20:29
wxloh man well i'm glad i didn't start testing20:29
gilirphillw, ok, I propose that we will look at the next meeting to see what's going  for this20:30
phillwgilir: fine by me, it was news to me, there is quite a lot going on :)20:31
gilirI'm not sure I understand what we need to do right now, or the benefice for us20:31
gilir[ACTION] Keep an eye on the next QA meeting for the specific Lubuntu part20:32
meetingologyACTION: Keep an eye on the next QA meeting for the specific Lubuntu part20:32
wxlwhine i wanna start testing NOW ;)20:32
jmarsden|workwxl: Go ahead, this doesn't stop you :)20:32
jmarsden|work(well, maybe wat until this meeting is over!)20:33
gilirstill no Yorvyk20:33
phillwwxl: ping me after the meeting, I will send you the links for the QA tests.20:33
gilir[TOPIC] Various news on Lubuntu devs20:33
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Various news on Lubuntu devs
wxlthx phillw20:33
gilirok just a quick summarize of the recent news20:33
Yorvyk_Hello20:34
gilirI started to work on the session manager, there will be some change after the Alpha 1 on this20:34
gilirwork also was done on Lxscreenshot, which should be already useable :)20:35
gilirYorvyk_, ah :)20:36
gilirYorvyk_, ready for your items ?20:36
stephen-smallyconfirm about lxscreenshot, is very simple, but should be ok for most of the users20:36
YorvykCan  anybody hear me20:36
phillwYorvyklod and clear20:37
phillw*loud*20:37
wxllxscreenshot works, but i wish there was more to it.. i'd rather use scrot at this point20:37
gilirstephen-smally, I plan to include it in lxde git tree, so after you shoudl prepare an official release20:37
Yorvyk\o/  at last!20:37
gilirwxl, you can ping stephen-smally about the features you want ;)20:37
stephen-smallyyes, i'm anyway looking for screen selection.20:38
gilirstephen-smally, also, I'll try to work on lsc, to get a release ready for the next week20:38
gilirat least, translation import is working now :)20:38
stephen-smallygilir: we tested it a lot in these days and it seems to be stable20:38
stephen-smallybut the po files aren't builded :-(20:39
gilirstephen-smally, yes, I think it's time to release something :)20:39
gilirstephen-smally, look at the last revision, you should have .po files now20:40
stephen-smallyohoh, found a bug now, time to solve it ;-)20:40
gilirYorvyk, are you with us now ? :)20:40
YorvykYes, I think so20:41
gilirok, moving to your items20:41
gilir[TOPIC] Reporting minutes of meeting to Ubuntu News20:41
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Reporting minutes of meeting to Ubuntu News
gilirYorvyk, ^20:42
YorvykI thought it may be a good idea to do a quick report of the meetings20:42
gilirdo you think we have enough interesting topics for them ?20:43
Yorvykas it may get more interest and a wider audiance20:43
* gilir is not sure it's the case :)20:43
YorvykWhy not?20:43
gilirYorvyk, maybe you can contact them, to see if there are interested ?20:43
YorvykI will20:44
gilir[ACTION] Yorvyk to contact Ubuntu News20:44
meetingologyACTION: Yorvyk to contact Ubuntu News20:44
YorvykOther news outlets appear to use Ubuntu News for their articles20:45
gilirwell, if they are OK, I don't see any problems about this20:45
YorvykBy the way - this meeting wasn't on the fridge calander :(20:45
wxlYorvyk: it was20:46
phillwYorvyk: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/20:46
phillwit was :)20:46
wxlbut you had to use the "agenda" view to see it20:46
YorvykAh!20:46
wxlor weekly probably would have worked20:46
wxlmonth view truncated the list20:46
gilirtoo many meetings :)20:47
wxlnot sure why there were no scrollbars20:47
Unit193I have that calendar added to my list of GCalendars, that's another way to see it20:47
phillwI'll look at trying to squeeze it into the topic on the two chennels20:47
YorvykOK, next20:48
david_j_rI'm at fridge calendar, and not seeing it in _any_ view :?20:48
gilir[TOPIC] Basic user documentation all in one place, with index20:48
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Basic user documentation all in one place, with index
YorvykThis hads been mentioned to me a few people20:49
YorvykI'm not quite sure what they want - and nor are they Ithink.20:50
gilirYorvyk, it's about the wiki pages on help.ubuntu.com ?20:50
jmarsden|workYorvyk: What is "Basic User Documentation"?  man pages???20:50
YorvykPeople seem to have problems with the wiki20:50
gilirwhat kind of problems ?20:51
YorvykI think what people are trying to ask me for is a basic set of howtos for each application.20:51
jmarsden|workYorvyk: Do you have a clear definition of what "Basic User Documentation" means?  Otherwise, we can't put it in one place...20:51
jmarsden|workYorvyk: Each application?  That's thousands of apps...20:53
phillwYorvyk: I know that mario popped a site map on to help navigation20:53
YorvykI don't and it is hard work trying to get people to explain what they want.  I've asked for examples from them.  I thought I'd bring it up to see if anybody had any ideas20:53
phillwoops, soz, he updated the links. but there is a site map, not too sure what else we can do given the limitations of wiki?20:54
YorvykI think the problem with the Wiki is that people aren't sure what terms to uses to find what they want.20:54
david_j_rI'm just a newcomer to Lubuntu, but it's my future. I could would appreciate a list of the L* apps - e20:54
david_j_ri.e., the Lubuntu/LXDE specific ones.20:54
david_j_rMaybe already there?20:54
wxlyeha maybe we could just have a "help with apps" page20:55
wxlwith all the lists20:55
david_j_rThe "index" may be the key here.20:55
phillwI see no reason that such a thing could not be put on the FAQ/Guides area?20:55
gilirsomething more like this : https://help.ubuntu.com/11.10/ubuntu-help/index.html ?20:56
wxli agree phillw20:56
wxli like gilir20:56
phillwgilir: looks good :)20:56
david_j_roooh - that's nice!20:57
wxlas long as it can be edited just the same as the wiki20:57
phillwit is a wiki apge :P20:57
YorvykI think that's what they're looking for20:57
gilirwe need someone to do it :p20:57
wxlwhy don't we start with a simple list?20:57
wxli mean crap i could start that20:57
YorvykI'll point a couple of them at that page and ask them if that's what they want.20:57
* phillw runs into corner.... Yeah... i'll put into my list, please give me a week after someone provides me a complete list of L* programmes!20:58
jmarsden|workphillw: for now, you can get a quick list of lx* packages by doing    dpkg-query -W lx\*     in a terminal window20:58
gilirYorvyk, good idea, maybe you can start a prototype later20:58
wxli can do it phillw20:58
phillwwxl: by all means, go for it. I'll help you if you get stuck.20:58
gilirwxl, can I put an action for you about this ?20:59
YorvykThe people I'm talking to don't like/understand mailing list or forums20:59
phillwjmarsden|work: I killed my VM's ... can't run Lubuntu atm :'(20:59
wxlsure gilir20:59
jmarsden|workphillw: Ah... OK, email me your VM problem.20:59
gilir[ACTION] Start to work on an index wiki page  for help (like https://help.ubuntu.com/11.10/ubuntu-help/index.html)21:00
meetingologyACTION: Start to work on an index wiki page  for help (like https://help.ubuntu.com/11.10/ubuntu-help/index.html)21:00
gilirok, I think it's time to end the meeting21:01
YorvykOK21:01
gilirno emergency for this week ?21:02
giliroh, and if you don't know what to do tonight : http://91.189.93.73/ ;)21:02
wxlhhehehe21:02
gilir#endmeeting21:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Nov 30 21:03:00 2011 UTC.21:03
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-30-20.07.moin.txt21:03
Yorvyk:-D21:03
phillwI do apologise for not being around too much, as you know - I had a fall out with my server provider & am in the middle of getting the new server set up!21:03
gilirthanks everyone :)21:03
phillwThanks for chairing, gilir21:03
wxlbtw i must say again that lubuntu rox. i am amazed that i can run lubuntu (vm) on lubuntu with as little ram as i have and a throttled processor and neither system totally sucks21:03
* gilir time to finish ISO testing :)21:04
phillwI'll get my VM's up in the next few days.21:04
wxlalright so we're done so i'm out21:05
stephen-smallybyr21:09
stephen-smallybye21:09

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