[06:53] <jasonjang> hi ! Mr LaMont, How R U ?
[13:46] <h01ger> hi
[13:46] <ogra_> h01ger, !!
[13:46] <ogra_> long time no see !
[13:55] <h01ger> ogra_, indeed!
[13:56]  * h01ger hopes to attend the edu meeting tonite. not sure if i make it though
[16:00]  * stgraber waves
[16:00] <barry> hi all.  i think i'm it today
[16:00] <barry> #startmeeting
[16:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Nov 30 16:00:30 2011 UTC.  The chair is barry. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[16:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:00] <barry> slangasek and cjwatson are afk today
[16:01] <stgraber> good, I was just wondering if Steve poked someone about chairing the meeting :)
[16:01] <barry> yep, i'm the lucky pokee
[16:01] <barry> echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jhunt ev bdmurray)
[16:01] <barry> jhunt ev stgraber doko barry bdmurray
[16:01] <jhunt> Whole week has been taken up with intense rework of Upstart job logging
[16:01] <jhunt> code for user jobs after I discovered a nasty issue. New code is simpler
[16:01] <jhunt> and cleaner, but still has a niggly issue I'm currently trying to track
[16:01] <jhunt> down.
[16:02] <jhunt> ⟷
[16:02] <barry> jhunt: i know all about those niggly issues that are hard to track down :)
[16:03] <barry> ev: you're up, if you're ready
[16:03] <ev> oh awesome
[16:03] <barry> should we come back around?
[16:03] <ev> - still helping the DX team get up to speed on automated testing using jenkins and autopilot
[16:03] <jhunt> barry: yeah, tracing individual file descriptors across 5-process logfiles gets hard (and time consuming :)
[16:04] <ev> - hacking away on the reporting daemon, recently adding some unit testing joy
[16:04] <ev> (done)
[16:04] <jhunt> ev: what about starring in a film? :)
[16:04] <ev> oh yes!
[16:04] <barry> autograph time!
[16:05] <ev> - engaged in subversion of Nokia's launch of the Lumia phone
[16:05] <stgraber> :)
[16:05] <stgraber> - ISO testing
[16:05] <stgraber>  - Currently using the new tracker, fixing stuff as we go
[16:05] <stgraber>  - Implemented donwload page
[16:05] <stgraber>  - Worked on some DB sanity check scripts, export/import scripts
[16:05] <stgraber>  - Working on migration of production server (still need to hear from IS)
[16:05] <stgraber>  - Dailies are now pushed automatically to the new tracker!
[16:05] <stgraber> - Edubuntu
[16:05] <stgraber>  - Did a bunch of fixes on Sunday
[16:05] <stgraber>  - Doing ISO testing this week
[16:05] <stgraber> - Networking
[16:05] <stgraber>  - Talked a bit with cyphermox about turning on privacy extensions, he had that turned on on his machine for a while without any problem
[16:05] <stgraber>  - Poked a bit harder at dnsmasq in Network Manager, found one bug that we'll need to have fixed (DNS not working when using a VPN for default gateway)
[16:05] <stgraber>  - Ifenslave update in my PPA, waiting to hear back from a customer for testing before uploading to Precise (bug 823366)
[16:05] <stgraber>  - Discovered that VLAN and bridging are as buggy as bonding, trying to find a solution for that which doesn't involve changing everything :) Details at: http://paste.ubuntu.com/754234/
[16:05] <stgraber> - Other
[16:05] <stgraber>  - Patch pilot on Monday, mostly spent cleaning up the queue from stuff that shouldn't be on it (got rid of 20-30 items)
[16:05] <stgraber> - TODO
[16:05] <stgraber>  - Figure out how to get reliable networking in 12.04 (for complex networks)
[16:05] <stgraber>  - Look at the new ifupdown in Debian (beta2), isolate the fix for bug 876829 and SRU to Oneiric
[16:05] <stgraber>  - Still need to get my iSCSI test setup online again and then look at the merge...
[16:06] <stgraber> (done)
[16:07] <jhunt> stgraber: Are QA + server team aware of your findings yet btw?
[16:07] <cyphermox> stgraber: have you filed a bug about the dnsmasq VPN issue?
[16:08] <stgraber> jhunt: gave the link to Clint and Daviey
[16:08] <stgraber> cyphermox: doing that now :)
[16:08] <jhunt> stgraber: cool.
[16:08] <cyphermox> stgraber: also, without issue is not quite right: I did run into connections blocking when the lifetime of the temporary address times out
[16:08] <barry> doko: you're up
[16:08] <cyphermox> but that was when I was changing from the default lifetime to something like 30 minutes
[16:09] <stgraber> cyphermox: bug 898224
[16:10] <barry> i guess we'll come back to doko
[16:10] <barry> short week due to usa thanksgiving holiday; continuing w/python-dbus py3 porting, still fixing and debugging the stragglers in the test suite (upstream git has some similar failures), but will try to wrap up today or at least, migrate the patches to git and submit upstream.  also: helped various folks with some packaging questions and issues (launchpadlib, and another one for a new employee).  pypy discussions (packaging for
[16:10] <barry> debian). done.
[16:11] <bdmurray> holiday(s)
[16:11] <bdmurray> working with bug reporting kit in arsenal
[16:11] <bdmurray> recreation and testing of bug 885442 regarding debconf and installer logs
[16:11] <bdmurray> work on bug reporting workflow diagram with cprofitt
[16:11] <bdmurray> update bug bot not to subscribe sponsors if an ubuntu-dev member added the patch
[16:11] <bdmurray> iso testing bug report review
[16:11] <bdmurray> fixed bug 887705 regarding warning about an unsupported release when upgrading to precise
[16:11] <bdmurray>  done
[16:12] <barry> #topic bugs
[16:13] <barry> bdmurray: what have you got for us today?
[16:13] <bdmurray> as previously mentioned there is some iso testing going on now
[16:14] <bdmurray> the new qa tracker has a new report of defects too and that is at
[16:14] <bdmurray> http://91.189.93.73/qatracker/reports/defects/opened
[16:14] <bdmurray> looking at that bug 897896 seems important
[16:15] <doko> sorry, was still otp
[16:16] <barry> doko: no worries.  whenever you're ready
[16:16] <doko> - eglibc-2.15; spent too much time to track down the dynamic loader issues, without success
[16:16] <doko> - universe merges
[16:16] <doko> - bring down MIR's and component mismatches
[16:16] <doko> - finalized eglibc ARM multilib patch together with Steve McIntyre
[16:16] <doko> (done)
[16:17] <barry> thanks
[16:17] <barry> anything else on bugs?
[16:17] <jhunt> bdmurray: when does the qa tracker get a dns entry? :)
[16:17] <bdmurray> I thought stgraber said that was up to is right?
[16:17] <stgraber> right
[16:18] <stgraber> it's currently a canonistack instance, we hope to have production upgrade very soon
[16:18] <bdmurray> I'm also unsure about how to proceed now with bug 891711
[16:18] <bdmurray> If you insert an 11.04 cd into an 11.10 system you are presented with an option to "upgrade" from 11.10 to 11.04
[16:19] <barry> uh, that's not a typo, right?
[16:19] <bdmurray> the same thing happens with 12.04 and 11.10
[16:19] <bdmurray> no not a typo
[16:20] <bdmurray> It crashes when going from 11.10 to 11.04 and works, afaict, when going from 12.04 to 11.10
[16:20] <bdmurray> However, I wonder if it really should appear there as an option at all
[16:21] <bdmurray> as it isn't tested
[16:21] <barry> is downgrading even a supported workflow?
[16:21] <stgraber> downgrading isn't supported, though IIRC the installer doesn't "downgrade" your system when you choose that
[16:21] <bdmurray> no, this use case wasn't envisioned
[16:21] <stgraber> it essentially wipes the system, keeps your home and reinstalls it
[16:22] <stgraber> except that some bits that are done on top of that seem to fail
[16:22] <bdmurray> but the old kernel is there and needs to be manually removed
[16:22] <stgraber> I'm still not sure we should support that use case and if not, we really should make sure it doesn't appear in the installer (will only work when 12.10 is released though)
[16:23] <bdmurray> stgraber: exactly, although we could SRU ubiquity
[16:23] <bdmurray> but its not likely to help much
[16:23] <stgraber> yeah, but that'd only work for the limited number of users who actually choose to upgrade ubiquity before installs
[16:24] <barry> agreed that it probably shouldn't be an option
[16:25] <bdmurray> It shouldn't be an option because it doesn't work well?
[16:25] <bdmurray> It seems like there is some demand for doing this
[16:25] <barry> it definitely shouldn't say "Upgrade 11.10 to 11.04" :)
[16:25] <bdmurray> well yes there is that
[16:26] <bdmurray> but even if it were renamed should it should appear at all?
[16:27] <jhunt> if it's allowable, surely there's an opportunity for us to understand why they are downgrading?
[16:27] <barry> i personally think not.  even if it's a workflow that some folks legitimately want, it's likely not very common, and unless it's officially supported and tested, it probably shouldn't be an option (though some documentation can exist to show people how to do it, with all the caveats)
[16:28] <bdmurray> But maybe this is something we should work on for 12.10...
[16:28] <bdmurray> Or perhaps the real thing to do is to give people a way test the next release on their hardware better
[16:29] <bdmurray> that seems like a better idea to me
[16:29] <barry> agreed
[16:29] <barry> though, i don't know how to translate that into an action item ;)
[16:30] <bdmurray> well mvo had mentioned resurrecting the aufs upgrade tester in update-manager
[16:31] <barry> bdmurray: do you know if there's an open bug for that? (lp is timing out for me)
[16:31] <bdmurray> not that I know of it was a discussion in a UDS session at UDS P
[16:32] <mvo> yeah, sorry, conflicting meeting
[16:32] <mvo> I have not actually tried it yet, but I can do that now and see how the aufs stuff goes for lucid->precise
[16:33] <mvo> I played with overlayfs and it looks pretty cool, but its not available yet in lucid
[16:33] <bdmurray> Does it generally work for oneiric->precise though?
[16:33] <mvo> so it will only be useful for oneiric->precise testing
[16:33] <mvo> well, overlayfs is not in trunk yet in u-m, but porting the existing code should be straightforward
[16:33]  * mvo had some proof-of-concept data for this
[16:35] <barry> mvo: could you maybe open a bug on u-m and link a branch (even a prototype) to it?
[16:35] <bdmurray> Okay, so it seems like the upgrade from old release to new release should be removed from ubiquity then
[16:35] <bdmurray> er from new to old
[16:36] <mvo> barry: yes, can do. and I will test the aufs lucid->precise one now
[16:36] <bdmurray> I'll submit a separate bug for that and leave 891711
[16:36] <barry> bdmurray, mvo thanks
[16:36] <barry> #topic aob
[16:36] <barry> anything else y'all want to bring up?
[16:38] <barry> going once
[16:38] <barry> going twice
[16:39] <barry> #endmeeting
[16:39] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Nov 30 16:39:13 2011 UTC.
[16:39] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-30-16.00.moin.txt
[16:39] <barry> thanks everyone!
[16:39] <stgraber> thanks!
[16:39] <jhunt> thanks
[16:59] <gema> hello everyone, we are about to start the new QA meeting
[17:00] <jibel> o/
[17:00] <nuclearbob> :)
[17:00] <charlie-tca> o/
[17:00] <gema> #startmeeting QA Meeting
[17:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Nov 30 17:00:29 2011 UTC.  The chair is gema. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[17:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:00] <gema> hi everyone and welcome to the new QA meeting
[17:01] <gema> I have seen jibel, nuclearbob and charlie-tca already present, anyone else?
[17:01]  * phillw is here :)
[17:01] <patrickmw> o/
[17:01] <gema> hi phillw and patrickmw !
[17:01] <gema> ok, so we will get started and welcome anyone that joins later
[17:02]  * alourie is present
[17:02] <gema> since this is a new meeting, we don't have previous actions (hi alourie :)
[17:02] <alourie> but only as a listener for now
[17:02] <gema> alourie: no problem
[17:02] <alourie> gema: no problem
[17:02] <alourie> and hi
[17:02] <gema> let's get on discussing the agenda from now on
[17:02] <gema> #topic Discuss new agenda
[17:03] <gema> you can see a proposal of agenda that I put together for today in the meeting page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[17:03] <gema> this is just for today, but I think the blueprints update is something we should keep
[17:03] <gema> do you guys have more topics to add to the agenda?
[17:04] <gema> charlie-tca: would you like to have a section where you give an update regarding the testing for your distro?
[17:05] <gema> if so, how shall we name that item?
[17:05] <charlie-tca> Not today
[17:05] <gema> ok, but going forward?
[17:06] <charlie-tca> If it will be benificial to know what the Xubuntu tests show, yes
[17:06] <phillw> we can do the same for lubuntu, if our team wishes so (we have a meeting tonight, so I will ask their views).
[17:06] <gema> I believe it is important to see the correlation yes
[17:06] <gema> ok, phillw
[17:07] <gema> so I will add a section for status of the different derivatives as well as for Ubuntu
[17:07] <gema> well, for now for Xubuntu and lubuntu
[17:07] <charlie-tca> I cut a finger bad yesterdAY, am only partly here today
[17:07] <gema> charlie-tca: I am sorry to hear :(
[17:08] <phillw> sorry to hear charlie-tca :(
[17:08] <charlie-tca> Thanks. Will do my beST ANYway
[17:08] <gema> no worries, we read you very well, take care :)
[17:08] <gema> #action gema to add lubuntu and Xubuntu testing updates to the agenda
[17:08] <meetingology> ACTION: gema to add lubuntu and Xubuntu testing updates to the agenda
[17:09] <gema> anything else you'd like to add/remove from the current proposed agenda?
[17:10] <gema> ok, so we'll leave there for now and review it as we go along, then
[17:10] <gema> #topic Blueprints Update for Precise
[17:11] <gema> now we'll go through all the blueprints that we are working on and give a quick update on them any questions fire as we go along so that we don't lose context
[17:11] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-builds-smoke-testing
[17:11] <gema> we have made available this page for everyone to see Precise automated testing results:  https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise/
[17:11] <gema> patrickmw: do you want to explain briefly what is there?
[17:12] <patrickmw> sure
[17:13] <patrickmw> currently there are the automated ISO installer tests, DX unit tests, unity merge tests, boot speed tests and I'm sure I'm missing something
[17:13] <patrickmw> more builds get added weekly
[17:13] <patrickmw> ah upgrade tests
[17:13] <alourie> o/
[17:13] <gema> go ahead, alourie
[17:14] <alourie> is there a way to see these tests? To find out what is being done and how to participate in them, if possible?
[17:14] <alourie> to contribute?
[17:14] <alourie> ..
[17:14] <patrickmw> yes
[17:15] <patrickmw> I don't there is a central location, but we can list the launchpad projects on the wiki
[17:15] <alourie> that'd be great
[17:15] <gema> can I give you an action to compile that list to you patrickmw?
[17:15] <patrickmw> yes
[17:16] <jibel> o/ (question for alourie )
[17:16] <alourie> jibel: sure
[17:16] <gema> #action patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins
[17:16] <meetingology> ACTION: patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins
[17:16] <gema> go for it jibel
[17:16] <jibel> which type of tests would you like to contribute to ?
[17:17] <jibel> iso testing, package testing, ... ?
[17:17] <alourie> jibel: well, anything. I just want this all to be as transparent as possible for possible contributors to join
[17:17] <alourie> me including
[17:17] <jibel> ok thanks
[17:18] <alourie> I would be probably good for ISO testing
[17:18] <alourie> but others may be more apt for other types
[17:18] <alourie> ..
[17:18] <gema> excellent, alourie, thanks for the idea and for wanting to contribute
[17:19] <gema> we need as much help as we can get
[17:19] <alourie> sure
[17:19] <gema> so there is more stuff going on in this blueprint.. let me see
[17:19] <gema> we are in the process of updating the documentation to be able to interpret the results and troubleshoot failures (information available in the blueprint)
[17:19] <gema> we also are working on a new tagging scheme that will allow us to assess the quality of the automated testing, we are going to start using
[17:20] <gema> in the canonical-platform-qa team, these tags for the automated testing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/TestingTypeAndBugTracking
[17:20] <gema> we want to make sure we can assess the quality of these tests we are going to be running and improve them over time
[17:20] <gema> that's all I have, anything else anyone?
[17:21] <gema> good, moving on then
[17:21] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-boot-speed-testing
[17:21] <gema> patrickmw ?
[17:21] <patrickmw>  * Results available here: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/boot-speed/
[17:21] <patrickmw> * Jobs available here: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20Boot%20Speed/
[17:21] <patrickmw> * Job failures due to NFS boot breaking on yesterdays ISOs.  Bug submitted.
[17:21] <patrickmw> * Currently generating benchmark bootcharts for each system (lucid, maverick, natty, oneiric) and they will be available on the Boot Speed Report this week
[17:21] <patrickmw> * Following up on NFS Boot bug and will try to run boot speed tests today
[17:21] <patrickmw> ..
[17:21] <gema> cool, let's give some time to people to read in case there is any question
[17:22] <gema> nothing.. then moving on
[17:22] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-kernel-sru
[17:22] <gema> hggdh: do you have an update on this?
[17:23]  * alourie has to leave to put the baby to sleep, hopefully get back in time. :-)
[17:23] <gema> what I know is what is on the blueprint, that sconklin is working on running rteval tests and trying to package them
[17:24] <gema> I will try to get more feedback for next week
[17:24] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-standard-sru-testing
[17:24] <gema> jibel ?
[17:25] <jibel> nothing from me on this topic this week
[17:25] <gema> ok
[17:25] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-test-case-management-tool
[17:25] <gema> jibel installed an internal instance of litmus and we are evaluating its viability to use for handling our test cases,
[17:25] <gema> we are in the process of setting up an instance that the community can also use and evaluate but we are undergoing review of the tool, etc, by the IS team
[17:26] <gema> it will hopefully be ready soon and we will let you know in this meeting
[17:26] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-qa-regression-testing
[17:26] <gema> nuclearbob: ?
[17:27] <nuclearbob> I've got an autotest package building in my ppa
[17:27] <nuclearbob> I'm getting that improved and tested on openstack instances, once we get the new lab hardware in, we should be able to get those tests running automatically on new instances ona  regular basis
[17:28] <nuclearbob> and we can get xml output from that to feed into jenkins
[17:28] <gema> so we will be able to see results in jenkins then
[17:28] <nuclearbob> yep
[17:28] <gema> excellent, thanks
[17:28] <gema> anything else from you?
[17:28] <nuclearbob> nope
[17:28] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-automated-test-submissions
[17:29] <gema> patrickmw: ?
[17:29] <patrickmw> work has started, nothing to report
[17:29] <gema> ok, thanks
[17:29] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-backlog
[17:29] <gema> this blueprint is to keep track of all sorts of bits and pieces that we are doing but are not part of the big items we are working on
[17:29] <gema> if there is any question please send us an email and we'll address it
[17:30] <gema> amongst other things we are going to be rewriting the bits and pieces that are obsolete in the ubuntu QA wiki, if anyone wants to collaborate,
[17:30] <gema> you are more than welcome!
[17:30] <gema> just let us know so that we can coordinate the effort
[17:30] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-test-case-definition
[17:30] <gema> we discussed a test case definition at UDS and I proposed it to the CoP in canonical, they were happy with it and decided to embrace
[17:30] <gema> that test case definition and start using it widely
[17:31] <gema> so any test cases from now on will probably have that format
[17:31] <gema> this blueprint is finished now, so I will make it disappear from our list of topics to discuss
[17:31] <charlie-tca> o/
[17:31] <gema> go ahead, charlie-tca
[17:31] <charlie-tca> Is that format available somwplace for community to use?
[17:31] <gema> indeed, just a sec
[17:32] <gema> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/TestCase
[17:32] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[17:32] <gema> we will be putting all the links to all the new content in place, because the wiki is becoming very difficult to navigate
[17:32] <gema> no problem
[17:32] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-metrics
[17:33] <gema> we haven't started working on this yet, so nothing to report this week
[17:33] <gema> that is it in terms of blueprints, now the big topic of the week
[17:33] <gema> #topic Alpha-1 Testing
[17:33] <gema> jibel: ?
[17:34] <jibel> alpha 1 is due tomorrow, coverage could be better, here it is:
[17:34] <jibel> Edubuntu	    50.00%
[17:34] <jibel> Kubuntu		     5.56%
[17:34] <jibel> Lubuntu		    42.86%
[17:34] <jibel> Mythbuntu	    Untested
[17:34] <jibel> Ubuntu		    56.63%
[17:34] <jibel> Ubuntu Server	80.00%
[17:34] <jibel> Xubuntu			50.00%
[17:34] <jibel> For Ubuntu, architectures mac and powerpc are untested which explains the low coverage.
[17:34] <jibel> Derivatives (especially Kubuntu) need your help for A1 testing.
[17:34] <jibel> No release blocker bug found at the moment.
[17:35] <jibel> The list of defects is available at http://91.189.93.73/qatracker/reports/defects/opened
[17:35] <jibel> One is particularly annoying (bug 894768) it's easily reproducible in VMs but we have one report where it fails on hardware.
[17:35] <jibel> If you've spare hardware and can install Ubuntu Precise Desktop _i386_ on it, then you can try to confirm this bug. that would help a lot.
[17:36] <jibel> For this milestone we are using a new version of the iso tracker rewritten in Drupal 7, thanks to stgraber
[17:36] <jibel> Details on ubuntu-devel mailing list https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-November/034495.html
[17:36] <jibel> ..
[17:36] <jibel> questions ?
[17:36] <jibel> or comments
[17:37] <gema> doesn't look like it
[17:37] <gema> thanks for the update, jibel
[17:37] <mike-gabriel> help
[17:37] <mike-gabriel> ignore...
[17:38] <gema> ok...
[17:38] <gema> so moving on
[17:38] <gema> #topic Other Topics
[17:38] <gema> any other topics or issues you'd like to bring up?
[17:39] <gema> regarding the chairing of the meeting, I think we shouldn't force people to do it with a shuff
[17:39] <gema> if someone wants they can, if not, I will be doing it
[17:40] <gema> or if I am not able to , I hope someone will volunteer :D
[17:40] <gema> but I think forcing people to chair may have detracted some collaborators from showing up
[17:40] <gema> just a theory
[17:40] <phillw> gema: I'll cover chairing if needed in an emergency :)
[17:41] <gema> I will try to put an agenda that makes sense for next week and then I will offer the chairing of the next meeting in case anyone wants to do it the week after next
[17:41] <gema> thanks a lot, phillw :)
[17:41] <gema> ok, so any thoughts regarding the new format, better, worse, are we missing anything?
[17:41] <patrickmw> its good
[17:41] <nuclearbob> yeah
[17:42] <nuclearbob> I think if we're missing anything it'll come up and we can add it
[17:42] <gema> yep, I am very glad that so many new faces were here today
[17:42] <charlie-tca> +1
[17:42] <gema> let's keep the momentum going and see if we can build a good QA community around this meeting :)
[17:43] <gema> thank you everyone for your time, see you next week!
[17:43] <gema> #endmeeting
[17:43] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Nov 30 17:43:46 2011 UTC.
[17:43] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-30-17.00.moin.txt
[17:43] <charlie-tca> Tank you for chairing
[17:44] <phillw> gema: thansk for chairing
[17:44] <jibel> thanks you gema
[17:44] <gema> not a problem , thank you for coming and staying for the whole thing :D
[17:44] <gema> I am staying to the bugs one now, because I need to tell them about our new tagging x)
[17:45] <phillw> gema: just on the thoughts of progress from Lubuntu, our head of Devel did issue an email each week on progress last cycle. If he is doing same this cycle, would you like it linked to the Lubuntu area on the testing area?
[17:45] <tenach> I always come in at the end of meetings or just after them...
[17:45] <phillw> hiyas tenach LTNS :)
[17:46] <tenach> Hi there phillw! Yeah, it really has been.
[17:46] <gema> phillw: is this report about testing or about development strictly?
[17:46] <gema> tenach: you'll make it next week , I am sure!
[17:46] <phillw> it covers a summary of known bugs etc.
[17:46] <tenach> gema: Yeah! I'm sure I will too.
[17:46] <gema> phillw: maybe you could forward that to the ubuntu-qa list
[17:47] <gema> phillw: so that we all benefit from it
[17:47] <phillw> I'll ask Julien at 20:00 UTC :)
[17:47] <gema> phillw: cool :)
[17:48] <phillw> he he, just had to check, it is being held on here..
[17:49] <gema> yep,no probs
[18:00] <pedro_> hello!
[18:00] <bil21al> hi
[18:00] <komputes> hi pedro_
[18:00] <charlie-tca> o/
[18:00] <pedro_> lets start with the meeting
[18:00] <pedro_> #startmeeting
[18:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Nov 30 18:00:51 2011 UTC.  The chair is pedro_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[18:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:01] <pedro_> Welcome to our first Bugs meeting !
[18:01] <gema> o/
[18:01] <pedro_> as you might know the QA meeting was divided in two so this is the second part of it
[18:01]  * alourie is back
[18:01] <alourie> ah
[18:01] <alourie> missed it
[18:01] <pedro_> The agenda can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meetings
[18:02] <mfisch> is the bugs meeting weekly now at this time?  the wiki is inconsistent on that
[18:02] <pedro_> there's not much items there so if you have any please keep it for the 'Others topics' topic
[18:03] <pedro_> mfisch, yeah we need to update it based on a discussion ie: should we keep the monthly bugsquad meeting or not?
[18:03] <pedro_> ok so first topic
[18:03] <pedro_> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
[18:03] <pedro_> there was no previous actions so lets continue
[18:04] <pedro_> [TOPIC] Engineering Team Bug Status
[18:04] <pedro_> bdmurray, Ursinha anything you'd like to share?
[18:04] <Ursinha> nothing in particular :)
[18:04] <bdmurray> I fixed a bug yesterday which is a bit odd
[18:05] <bdmurray> bug 887705
[18:05] <bdmurray> The gist of it is that update-manager reads infromation from meta-release files on changelogs.ubuntu.com to determine what releases are supported etec
[18:06] <bdmurray> so while you see the bug in update-manager it requires a fix in those files
[18:06] <bdmurray> kind of wacky and I thought that might be good to know
[18:07] <bdmurray> I've also been working with cprofitt on a bug reporting workflow diagram
[18:09] <bdmurray> There may very well be duplicates of bug 894768 being reported
[18:09] <bdmurray> because it fails with different files bugs require manual inspection
[18:10] <bdmurray> that's all I have
[18:10] <pedro_> i was pinged by our QA folks regarding a failures they were seeing during the upgrade testing
[18:10] <pedro_> so in the end it was bug 893826
[18:11] <pedro_> it was fixed recently but worth keep an eye in case there's some dups
[18:11] <pedro_> anything else, anyone ?
[18:12] <pedro_> [TOPIC] Other Topics
[18:12] <gema> o/
[18:12] <pedro_> gema, please go ahead
[18:12] <gema> we (QA-platform team) are working on a new tagging scheme that will allow us to assess the quality of the automated testing, we are going to start using
[18:13] <gema> these tags for the automated testing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/TestingTypeAndBugTracking
[18:13] <gema> just wanted to let you know we are going to be using them to be able to track things and generate reports for ISO testing
[18:13] <gema> please, do not remove those tags :)
[18:13] <gema> we haven't started, so if you have any suggestions, also welcome
[18:13] <gema> ..
[18:14] <bdmurray> gema: Does "upgrade testing" mean distribution upgrade or package upgrade?
[18:14] <gema> for now, it means distribution upgrade
[18:14] <gema> we are not doing any package upgrade testing yet
[18:14] <nailora> o/
[18:15] <pedro_> nailora, stage is all yours
[18:15] <nailora> i sent a mail to the bugsquad mailing list yesterday https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2011-November/003552.html
[18:15] <pedro_> (thanks gema!)
[18:15] <gema> (np)
[18:16] <nailora> after pedos invitiation i thought it might be brought up here
[18:16] <nailora> (if you are not prepared, nevermind, i will be happy to get replies via email)
[18:17] <nailora> bascially it is about what to do about unsupported hardware and an overload of bug reports
[18:19] <janak_dev> hi
[18:19] <bdmurray> nailora: Have you heard of apport package hooks?
[18:19] <bdmurray> With these you can change the bug reporting experience for reporters
[18:21] <nailora> i do know a little bit about them, it might help to improve the situation for the future
[18:21] <pedro_> is there any page for DebuggingScanners? like the DebuggingPrinting one? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingPrintingProblems
[18:22] <njin> nope
[18:22] <bdmurray> This would help gather the information for bugs and could prevent bug reporting
[18:22] <pedro_> nailora, perhaps contact the developers/maintainers to help to create such page? that way you can also point reports there to start collecting more useful information
[18:23] <pedro_> s/reports/reporters/g
[18:24] <nailora> i am in contact with the developer, and i will create some wiki pages, one as a landing page that can be cited in bug reports to explain why they are not that helpful and one similar to the page mentioned for printers
[18:25] <pedro_> nailora, awesome, thank you
[18:25] <pedro_> any other thoughts on nailora's topic?
[18:25] <bdmurray> I'll reply to the email later today
[18:26] <pedro_> thanks bdmurray
[18:26] <bdmurray> I think its important to prevent bugs from coming in if that's really what you want
[18:26] <bdmurray> I mean you could close them all but they'll just come back
[18:27] <micahg> o/
[18:27] <bdmurray> so have the reporting process be as informative as possible
[18:27] <pedro_> micahg, please go ahead
[18:27] <micahg> so, this is about the simple scan bug thread right?
[18:28] <bdmurray> yes
[18:29] <micahg> ok, so I just wanted to point out that if there is a bug somewhere, that we should try to get it to the right place, open bugs isn't a problem as long as they're valid (i.e. if the problem is in SANE or some other component, move it to the right place), if it's truly not a bug, just configuration help or what not, then we can convert to question
[18:30] <micahg> ..
[18:32] <pedro_> thanks micahg
[18:32] <pedro_> I have a topic as well
[18:33] <pedro_> since the meetings are now divided into Testing and Bugs , should we delete the Monthly BugSquad Meeting and start adding such topics to this one?
[18:33] <bdmurray> that makes sense to me
[18:34] <charlie-tca> +1
[18:34] <bil21al> sure
[18:34] <micahg> +1
[18:34] <bil21al> +1
[18:34] <h01ger> ogra_, i've been online too long today, i need to go afk.. sorry that i'll miss the meeting, have fun & good results!
[18:35] <pedro_> ok sounds good, lets do it , i'll update the wiki page and send an email with the info
[18:35] <ogra_> h01ger, heh, thanks, i'm not in edu stuff anymore though, but i'll tell the guys in #edubuntu
[18:35] <pedro_> [ACTION] pedro_ to update wiki + send email re the BugSquad Meeting
[18:35] <meetingology> ACTION: pedro_ to update wiki + send email re the BugSquad Meeting
[18:36] <pedro_> and last for me, please notice that the Mentorship program is now closed
[18:37] <pedro_> hggdh,  sent an email about that https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2011-November/003550.html
[18:37] <pedro_> thanks hggdh for taking care of it :-)
[18:37] <pedro_> anything else? any extra topic?
[18:38] <pedro_> seems not
[18:38] <njin> pedro_: do you want to mentor me next mopnths ?
[18:38] <pedro_> [TOPIC] Chair Selection
[18:38] <pedro_> njin, we can 'all' mentor you, just ask in the #ubuntu-bugs channel :-)
[18:39] <njin> :-)
[18:39] <pedro_> so who'd like to chair the next meeting?
[18:40] <bdmurray> o/
[18:40] <pedro_> thanks bdmurray
[18:40] <pedro_> [ACTION] bdmurray to chair next meeting
[18:40] <meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray to chair next meeting
[18:40] <pedro_> ok seems that's all for today
[18:41] <pedro_> thanks all !
[18:41] <pedro_> #endmeeting
[18:41] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Nov 30 18:41:11 2011 UTC.
[18:41] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-30-18.00.moin.txt
[18:41] <charlie-tca> Thanks for chairing
[18:41] <pedro_> no problem
[18:49] <janak_dev> h
[19:00]  * stgraber waves (and disappears for 5 minutes)
[19:01] <dgroos> Howdy Edu-Linuxistas of various flavors
[19:02] <alkisg> Hey all
[19:02]  * mike-gabriel says hi (Debian Edu)
[19:02] <arntog> hey all (debian edu)
[19:03]  * mike-gabriel is present mainly read-only and has to leave before end of session
[19:03] <kaareno> Hi
[19:06] <highvoltage> eek
[19:07] <highvoltage> sorry I've been following a live podcast and lost track of time
[19:07] <stgraber> hey highvoltage
[19:07] <highvoltage> good evening/afternoon everyone :)
[19:07] <highvoltage> who else is here for the Edubuntu meeting?
[19:08] <stgraber> I think that's quite a bit more than usual already :)
[19:08] <highvoltage> our not-so-often updated Agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
[19:08] <highvoltage> hehe, indeed
[19:08] <stgraber> mike-gabriel: oh, forgot you're also a Debian edu guy :)
[19:08] <highvoltage> stgraber: is it ok if we jump into the debian-edu stuff?
[19:09] <mike-gabriel> stgraber: hi, I have to leave early, probably and cannot not write that much (other appointment)
[19:09] <stgraber> highvoltage: no problem with that, as I said in #edubuntu, I'm not really around anyway
[19:09] <highvoltage> I just want to give a little background, Debian-Edu has a script to incorporate an Ubuntu machine into a Debian-EDU LDAP network
[19:10] <highvoltage> we wanted to incorporate it but ran out of time
[19:10] <highvoltage> this release, stgraber is working on an authentication step in the edubuntu installer to authenticate against LDAP or AD
[19:10] <mike-gabriel> highvoltage: not quite correct: there is the package debian-edu-config that integrates a debian desktop into a skolelinux network
[19:10] <highvoltage> mike-gabriel: aah
[19:11] <highvoltage> well, so I added it to this meeting agenda so that we could perhaps get some low-latency communication
[19:11] <mike-gabriel> the d-e-c package is also in Ubuntu btw. but probably in some random version...
[19:11] <highvoltage> stgraber: which is why I hope you could give attention for a minute or two
[19:11] <mike-gabriel> yes, I'm there.
[19:12] <stgraber> ok, sounds interesting and we should definitely look into it
[19:12] <highvoltage> mike-gabriel: is there anything special about the debian-edu ldap configuration? I was talking to stgraber about it a while back and we're kind of hoping that the usual ldap option would work for debian-edu
[19:12] <mike-gabriel> the debian-edu-config package is highly complex, otherwise I would say that you check out the code and take a look. But taking a look really takes time in that case...
[19:12] <stgraber> for 12.04 I still think our best bet at supporting the biggest variety of setup without much trouble is to use sssd as it's going to be one single tool for pam/nss/kerberos and works with regular openldap, AD, edirectory, ...
[19:12] <stgraber> FWIW I only plan on spending an hour or two implementing that feature for 12.04
[19:12] <mike-gabriel> in d-e everything is based on DNS
[19:13] <mike-gabriel> ldap.intern is the LDAP CNAME in DNS
[19:13] <highvoltage> stgraber: ok
[19:13] <highvoltage> mike-gabriel: which source package should we look at? just the one in the debian archives?
[19:13] <mike-gabriel> d-e-c squeeze will use kerberos, so there also is a KDC in the net: tjener.intern
[19:13] <stgraber> mike-gabriel: are you also using the "standard" DNS records? if so, sssd's auto-config script should work with debian edu
[19:14] <mike-gabriel> due to kerberos restriction we have to use the fqdn tjener.intern (tjener is bokmal, I guess, that is one of the no dialects/language for server).
[19:14] <mike-gabriel> then there is a autofs config hidden in LDAP
[19:14] <mike-gabriel> /skole/<host>/home<X>
[19:15] <mike-gabriel> via NFSv4, planned is to use sec=krb5i, but we still have no concept how to distribute the host/<machine> principals during installation
[19:15] <mike-gabriel> then: skolelinux machines grab there hostname from DHCP during boot, for this network-manager is tweaked
[19:16] <stgraber> sssd looks for ldap.<domain> and kerberos.<domain> by default, if these don't work, it falls back to microsoft's _kerberos.<domain>, _kerberos._tcp.<domain>, ...
[19:16] <mike-gabriel> that is: in GOsa² (LDAP-tool used in d-e squeeze) you add a host and give IP, MAC, DNS name and the host will boot into it's correct name
[19:16] <mike-gabriel> there also are netgroups, e.g. for shutdownatnight
[19:17] <mike-gabriel> and for NFSv4 access, so edubuntu clients should take netgroups libnss-ldap
[19:17]  * highvoltage is absorbing all of this
[19:18] <mike-gabriel> the main problem I currently see+face: having skolelinux workstations on the net and having ubuntu machines on the net, too.
[19:18] <highvoltage> I guess it would be a good start just to have debian-edu-config working on edubuntu
[19:18] <mike-gabriel> Both systems will use different software versions (GNOME 2.X and 2.Y), LibreOffice vs. Openoffice, etc.
[19:19] <highvoltage> ok, edubuntu 12.04 won't have any gnome 2.x in it though
[19:19] <mike-gabriel> I have a school here that wants a recipe for ubuntu desktop integration into the network (including server-side homes). I currently do not dare to run ubuntu clients and debian edu clients on the same homes...
[19:20] <mike-gabriel> what will be in edubuntu 12.04? Unity?
[19:20] <stgraber> sorry guys, got to go for a while now, LTSP failed to install in alpha-1, need to fix it
[19:20] <highvoltage> yes, unity, and as an alternate option, gnome 3 fallback (which is basically the gnome 2 desktop on gnome 3)
[19:20] <highvoltage> ok thanks stgraber
[19:21] <mike-gabriel> so, gnome3 won't cause a problem now, but maybe later, when we talk about debian edu wheezy (which will use gnome3 then as well).
[19:22] <mike-gabriel> I guess my approach for mixed networks will be to auto-create local homes on ubuntu machines and symlink the XDG folders to the corresponding folders in the homes on TJENER (main server)
[19:22] <highvoltage> mike-gabriel: I can take some time on Friday to try out debian-edu-config on Edubuntu and see where that gets us and write up an email about it. I have no idea what to expect but perhaps it would be as simple as updating some package names/paths?
[19:22] <highvoltage> would that be useful?
[19:22] <mike-gabriel> debian-edu-config provides many configs that will override configs of other packages, so beware.
[19:23] <highvoltage> that sounds very, very undebiany :)
[19:23] <mike-gabriel> see Debian BTS #311188
[19:23] <highvoltage> I'll be sure to run it in a VM
[19:23] <mike-gabriel> then debian-edu-config partially does things on installation, partially it provides many many helper scripts, CRONS, etc.
[19:24] <mike-gabriel> then there are some scripts that are only needed during main server installation (a complete LDAP bootstrap, autoconfiguration of a Samba3 PDC, etc.
[19:24] <highvoltage> is there perhaps a wiki page or something about it?
[19:24] <mike-gabriel> so, you definitely do not need the whole d-e-c package
[19:25] <mike-gabriel> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu
[19:25] <mike-gabriel> and there is a good Skolelinux book by Klaus Ade Johnstad (and others) that applies to Debian Edu lenny...
[19:26] <highvoltage> ok
[19:26] <mike-gabriel> search for something like this: http://www.skolelinux.no/~klaus/newnotater/index.html
[19:26] <mike-gabriel> probably the link does not provide the newest version
[19:26] <highvoltage> the next edubuntu version will be LTS (long-term support) which we'll have to support for 5 years
[19:27] <highvoltage> so we're very weary of including something that might potentially be a support nightmare
[19:27] <mike-gabriel> normally, the critical part about skolelinux is the main server (and its correct bootstrap on installation)
[19:27] <highvoltage> ok
[19:27] <mike-gabriel> I know several setups with an etch server and squeeze clients (although d-e-c squeeze is not released yet).
[19:28] <mike-gabriel> the project SVN repos is on Alioth. You need an account and a public SSH key deposited there.
[19:28] <highvoltage> Should I be able to set it up fine with Debian Edu 6.0?
[19:28] <highvoltage> (the server part, that is)
[19:29] <mike-gabriel> there is a test DVD you can download: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/TestCDinstall
[19:29]  * mike-gabriel always needs time to find this link via search engine...
[19:30] <mike-gabriel> This test CD is sometime broken but not at the moment (as much as I know)
[19:30] <mike-gabriel> Then there will be an inofficial Debian Edu sprint at the coming weekend.
[19:30] <highvoltage> ok
[19:30] <mike-gabriel> we will be discussing on irc.debian.org #debian-edu channel
[19:31] <highvoltage> I'll be there. I have a lot happening on Saturday, but on Sunday I could probably look at those client side scripts and ask some questions about it if it won't cause too much interuption to the sprint
[19:32] <mike-gabriel> I guess that will be fine, however, I will only be there on friday night and saturday afternoon/night (CET)
[19:32] <mike-gabriel> hmmm...
[19:33] <mike-gabriel> I guess best strategy would be for you
[19:33] <mike-gabriel> install a TJENER
[19:33] <highvoltage> ok, I'm in the same timezone and I can be there saturday night
[19:33] <mike-gabriel> install a normal Ubuntu workstation
[19:33] <mike-gabriel> are you? I though you were canadian...
[19:34] <mike-gabriel> then on the workstation, do all the fancy client integration stuff a unix workstation needs
[19:34] <mike-gabriel> NTP -> ntp.intern (I think)
[19:34] <mike-gabriel> LDAP -> ldap.intern
[19:34] <mike-gabriel> Kerberos -> tjener.intern
[19:34] <mike-gabriel> NFS -> AutoFs from LDAP
[19:35] <highvoltage> mike-gabriel: I live in Canada now, but I'm South African and back in South Africa for a few months :)
[19:35] <mike-gabriel> NFS access control via netgroup
[19:35] <mike-gabriel> :-)
[19:35] <mike-gabriel> shutdown-at-night control via netgroup
[19:35]  * highvoltage copies and pastes this in a note for later
[19:35]  * mike-gabriel wonders what else...
[19:35] <mike-gabriel> yep
[19:36] <mike-gabriel> of course, libnss-ldap for users/groups and libpam-krb5 for Krb5-Auth
[19:36] <highvoltage> long-term (like, a year from now), we'd also like to revive the Edubuntu Server side
[19:36] <highvoltage> possibly also using some of the cool new stuff like FreeIPA
[19:36] <mike-gabriel> ok!!!
[19:37] <highvoltage> would Debian-Edu perhaps be interested in also investigating things like that for wheezy+1?
[19:37] <mike-gabriel> cups-client setup
[19:37] <mike-gabriel> BrowsePoll for ipp.intern
[19:37] <mike-gabriel> dhcp-client including host-derival from DHCP
[19:37] <mike-gabriel> DNS -> 10.0.2.2 (TJENER)
[19:37] <mike-gabriel> Gateway 10.0.2.1
[19:37] <highvoltage> that's hard-coded ?
[19:38] <mike-gabriel> Oh, yes. Please read about the skolelinux network!!! The main server always is on 10.0.2.2, the gateway on 10.0.2.1.
[19:38] <mike-gabriel> The gateway should be something like freedombox or ipfire or ipcop or similar.
[19:39] <mike-gabriel> ahh.... squid proxy running on webcache.intern
[19:39] <highvoltage> ok, will do
[19:39] <mike-gabriel> so, in d-e-c there is a default firefox config that's really nice (disables the network options, so users cannot disable the proxy setup in firefox/iceweasel)
[19:40] <mike-gabriel> ok, will do means stop?
[19:40] <highvoltage> nope :)
[19:40] <mike-gabriel> :-)
[19:40] <mike-gabriel> ok...
[19:40] <highvoltage> will do = I'll go read the network docs
[19:40] <arntog> highvoltage, we will have a small gathering in Trondheim, Norway this weekend, to get some more hands-on experince with debianedu, but it is possible that we play around with a ubuntu/edubuntu client as well
[19:40] <mike-gabriel> d-e-c also provides a wpad.dat for browser auto-configuration
[19:40] <mike-gabriel> hi arnt
[19:40] <highvoltage> arntog: nice
[19:40] <arntog> highvoltage, I know some of the people that will participate is in to ubuntu as well :)
[19:41] <arntog> hi mike-gabriel
[19:41] <mike-gabriel> the advantage of a pre-defined network setup is certification for supporters.
[19:41] <highvoltage> we need to figure out how we want to handle some types of configuration in edubuntu as well, we had some tools for gnome and desktop stuff that are no longer support
[19:41] <mike-gabriel> once you know how d-e works you can support any school that runs it.
[19:42] <highvoltage> *supported
[19:42] <mike-gabriel> of course, there will be customizations on site, but the basis is really fixed.
[19:42] <highvoltage> but I guess that should be seperate from the authentication stuff since someone might want to use a configuration manager or something else for that
[19:44] <mike-gabriel> once you have a ubuntu client working within a skolelinux network, it might become really interesting to provide this edubuntu desktop as a diskless workstation. Skolelinux has a terminal server profile that pre-configures an LTSP server (that I normally tweak and transform into an X2Go server).
[19:44] <mike-gabriel> and as a side product (intentionally) the LTSP server profile also offers diskless workstations.
[19:44] <highvoltage> arntog, mike-gabriel: I've copied and pasted mike-gabriel's suggestions in a note, I'll be reading those suggested docs and do a debian-edu server / ubuntu client installation and check in over the weekend for some questions, updates and feedback.
[19:44] <mike-gabriel> Our schools here in Nothern Germany love that...
[19:45] <mike-gabriel> Yes, do so. I will be only 24/7 so I may answer questions later whenever I see that you wrote...
[19:45] <highvoltage> I think I'll write another update to everyone about it in 2 weeks or so to keep everyone in the loop (I think a month when we have a meeting again is too long), does that sound ok?
[19:45] <mike-gabriel> ok!
[19:45] <highvoltage> mike-gabriel: ok
[19:45] <arntog> ok
[19:46] <highvoltage> and if there's anything else, feel free to poke us on #edubuntu on this network as well
[19:47] <mike-gabriel> sure!
[19:47] <highvoltage> stgraber, alkisg and myself are usually there and if not, we tend to leave our session open somewhere
[19:47] <mike-gabriel> right!
[19:47]  * highvoltage can't think of anything more at this point (been up since way too early :) )
[19:47] <mike-gabriel> same with me (and h0lger, who is release manager of d-e) on irc.debian.org #debian-edu
[19:47] <highvoltage> ok, I'm usually always there
[19:48] <mike-gabriel> pop in on #debian-edu at the weekend and we will discuss more
[19:48] <highvoltage> I will do so
[19:48] <highvoltage> well, thanks guys!
[19:48] <mike-gabriel> thanks!
[19:48] <arntog> thanks
[19:49] <stgraber> looks like the longest edubuntu meeting ever ;)
[19:49] <highvoltage> stgraber: at least, longest one in a while :)
[19:49] <alkisg> :)
[19:50] <dgroos> and 200 people ;)
[19:50] <highvoltage> btw, Edubuntu Council elections will be running soon, I was supposed to send the list of nominations to the CC on Monday, but haven't had the time.
[19:50] <highvoltage> I'll do so tomorrow.
[19:50] <highvoltage> We've also started our application for LTS with the Technical Board
[19:51] <highvoltage> we're applying for 5 years LTS on conditional on Kubuntu also getting 5 years LTS status
[19:51] <highvoltage> otherwise we'll also do the 3 year support thing with them
[19:51] <highvoltage> we also have to produce a list of packages that we want to support for the next TB meeting
[19:52] <highvoltage> I'll post about that to the list
[19:52] <highvoltage> and stgraber got the todo list item to poke Kubuntu to apply (they haven't yet) but I've gone ahead and done some pokage too :)
[19:52] <highvoltage> there's 7 minutes left, anything else before we wrap up?
[19:53] <dgroos> Has the meeting agenda been updated to reflect current interests?
[19:53] <stgraber> alpha-1 will be released tomorrow, anyone who took action items at UDS should make sure they either have these targeted for a1 done or consider moving them to a2
[19:54] <highvoltage> dgroos: anyone is free to edit the wiki page to add their interests, I guess it could do with some cleanup and updates
[19:54] <highvoltage> stgraber: I'm moving the wallpaper / installer slideshow stuff to a2, but I think we discussed that already
[19:54] <dgroos> I saw the community item of, "Provide 'beginners' with basic but complete setup instructions.
[19:55] <stgraber> highvoltage: FWIW I updated the slideshow on Sunday (nothing big, just dropping gbrainy, changing the welcome slide and updating the under the hood stuff)
[19:55] <dgroos> was that from last time I was at a meeting?  looks like something I might have put up :)
[19:55] <highvoltage> dgroos: we still have *lots* of requests for that to the edubuntu-contac address. it's very much in demand, there's one person who contacted us who wants to work on something though
[19:56] <highvoltage> dgroos: might have been, it's been there  along time
[19:56] <dgroos> 'k
[19:57] <dgroos> Seems like it's a tough goal because of the 6-month Ubuntu update where things can change so much.
[19:57] <highvoltage> indeed. would be nice to have it at least for the LTS's
[19:57] <dgroos> But having something like greatly lowers the entry bar.
[19:57] <highvoltage> we have some docs that we maintian on edubuntu.org for each release
[19:57] <dgroos> highvoltage: good goal...
[19:57] <highvoltage> the basics like: how to install edubuntu, how to install ltsp, links to upstream docs
[19:58] <highvoltage> but it's not something that you can really print and bind in a book or something
[19:58] <dgroos> Could we have that mirrored in a few places?
[19:58] <dgroos> Are those docs on edubuntu.org in a wiki?
[19:59] <highvoltage> I guess we could. Personally I just have zero time right now to take that on, but I'd gladly provide anyone who wants to with the information or help that they might need
[19:59] <highvoltage> nope, just pages on the edubuntu website. so for now they're not translated (or at least not translated where you can easily find them)
[20:00] <highvoltage> I'm not so sure that wikis are the best place to do documentaiton either
[20:00] <dgroos> Well, maybe having it mirrored might not be the solution.
[20:00] <highvoltage> indeed
[20:00] <stgraber> we moved stuff to the website because wiki was a mess to keep updated and to know what's on it
[20:00] <dgroos> True, maybe docs don't belong on wiki, or at least for an LTS.
[20:00] <dgroos> right.
[20:01] <stgraber> currently anything that's on the website gets updated for sure for every release (also the reason why we keep what's on the website to a minimum)
[20:01] <highvoltage> I'd like to have more of our documentation packaged so that we could actually ship it with the system
[20:01] <kalosaurusrex> Is someone from the QA Team (a team leader perhaps?) around?
[20:01] <highvoltage> but since we usually update our docs single days before our release (it's the only time we have to do it) it's too late for that
[20:02] <dgroos> I think docs on Edubuntu.org is a fine solution though.
[20:02] <stgraber> kalosaurusrex: this is the Ubuntu meeting channel, we're currently in an Edubuntu meeting. I'd suggest #ubuntu-quality
[20:02] <highvoltage> the website is also usually the first place people look for it
[20:02] <highvoltage> and http://edubuntu.org/documentation isn't hard to find, at least
[20:02] <dgroos> I guess I haven't been there much in a while.  I'll check it out again.
[20:03] <highvoltage> but yes, any help on that would be appreciated
[20:04] <jmarsden|work> stgraber: Isn't there an Lubuntu meeting here at 20:00 UTC?  Or am I confused?
[20:04] <highvoltage> for every hour someone spends on docs they're probably saving many hours for lots of people out there
[20:04] <highvoltage> I guess we should wrap up Edubuntu then if we're spilling over.
[20:04] <highvoltage> thanks everyone!
[20:04] <dgroos> For sure.  I'll check it out and get back to you.
[20:04] <stgraber> jmarsden|work: quite possible, our meeting just went over the 1 hour mark :)
[20:04] <jmarsden|work> stgraber: OK, thanks.
[20:04] <highvoltage> Meeting adjourned, #edubuntu is open 24/7 as always :)
[20:05] <wxl> well we're the last hour so we can go over as much as possible ;)
[20:05] <wxl> we've got 8 hours until the next meeting. let's make the best out of it!
[20:06]  * jmarsden|work only has a 1 hour lunch break... asking for an 8 hour lunch break might get me some funny looks :)
[20:06] <wxl> heh
[20:06] <gilir> wxl, I'll not be able to talk during 8h :)
[20:06] <wxl> ok, enough jokes, let's get this party started, gilir
[20:07] <stephen-smally> let's start the meeting, i've math tomorrow
[20:07] <gilir> #startmeeting
[20:07] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Nov 30 20:07:23 2011 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[20:07] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[20:07] <gilir> Agenda is available here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
[20:08] <gilir> [TOPIC] Show of hands to gauge attendance
[20:08]  * wxl shows both hands
[20:08] <gilir> o/
[20:08] <wxl> \o/
[20:08] <jmarsden|work> o/
[20:08] <gilir> Yorvyk, here ? :)
[20:08]  * phillw present
[20:09]  * Unit193 
[20:09] <david_j_r> o) (numpty user - lurking)
[20:09] <stephen-smally> o/
[20:10] <gilir> [TOPIC] Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
[20:10] <gilir> quick review of last week actions
[20:10] <gilir> people still comment on the website page
[20:11] <gilir> I hope to have enough information for next week to decide something
[20:11] <wxl> from what i read briefly on the mailing list it sounds like the splinter group we had is now working with mario and they're working on a new proposal. sounds like it's happening
[20:11] <gilir> Alpha 1 ISO testing, if you want to help : http://91.189.93.73/ :)
[20:12] <wxl> on that subject julien said he will endeavour to get ppc to be included in the next round of testing
[20:12] <gilir> and work in progress for lxscreenshot
[20:14] <gilir> it seems that Yorvyk is not here, so I let his items for now
[20:14] <gilir> [TOPIC] Discuss ARM ISO for Lubuntu
[20:14] <phillw> speak of the devil :)
[20:15] <stephen-smally> oh, i would like ARM isos
[20:15] <wxl> i could see if i could get it going on my palm pre ;)
[20:15] <gilir> well the problem is to have hardware + people who want to test ISOs during the cycle :)
[20:16] <stephen-smally> i would like to put in on the RaspBerty PI, i will buy it during christmas
[20:16] <stephen-smally> *RaspBerry Pi
[20:16] <gilir> some volunteers ? :)
[20:16] <jmarsden|work> gilir: Does ARM mean ARMv7 and later?  Note the very low cost Rasperry Pi board will be out in December but it uses ARMv6, the project is more or less giving up on Lubuntu because Ubuntu does not officially do ARMv6...
[20:16] <gilir> jmarsden|work, it will be the same than Ubuntu
[20:17] <jmarsden|work> OK, so stephen-smally ... note you won't be able to run Lubuntu on a Rasperry Pi.
[20:17] <stephen-smally> damn, that's why i'm switching to arch XD
[20:17] <wxl> the pre has an armv7
[20:17] <wxl> i'd be into giving it a shot
[20:18] <gilir> well, maybe for the short term, sending a mail to the mailing list explaning the situation
[20:19] <gilir> I'm not sure there are enough people to test + debug problems on ARM for lubuntu currently :)
[20:19] <stephen-smally> agree
[20:19] <gilir> and +1 arch is probably enough for this cycle :)
[20:20] <jmarsden|work> gilir: I tend to agree; Rasperbby Pi support would get us more (I'd buy a board or two) ... but I'm not buying a $200 board just to test ARMv7.
[20:20] <gilir> [ACTION] Send a mail about ARM ISO on the mailing list
[20:20] <meetingology> ACTION: Send a mail about ARM ISO on the mailing list
[20:20] <gilir> ok let's go the next topic
[20:20] <wxl> agree.. i think arm is going to be increasingly important, but it's not a huge hot button right now
[20:21] <gilir> [TOPIC] Addition of progress report on QA area
[20:21] <stephen-smally> o/ question
[20:21] <gilir> phillw, it's yours :)
[20:21] <phillw> it was mooted and pretty much agreed at the QA meeting that an update of the progress be linked to the QA wiki area.
[20:22] <phillw> I was kinda hoping gilir will be doing the weekly emails this cycle?
[20:22] <phillw> Lunbuntu got 43% sign off for pre-alpha1 testing (not too bad... Ubuntu only got 57%).
[20:22] <gilir> phillw, what do you mean by a weekly email ? about QA ?
[20:22] <gilir> ah the ISO testing ?
[20:23] <jmarsden|work> phillw: Isn't seeing the work item updates in the blueprints acceptable to QA?  Why create another document?
[20:23] <phillw> gilir: an update as to any bugs solved / known etc in a digest format.
[20:23] <phillw> jmarsden|work: they have are adding sections for Xubuntu & Lubuntu.
[20:24] <gilir> phillw, do you have a link ? for an example ?
[20:24] <phillw> It is to encourage testers to try and test more areas.
[20:24] <jmarsden|work> +1 for link/example :)
[20:24] <phillw> gilir: it was only agreed 2 hours ago, it is to be set up.
[20:25]  * gilir look at the log
[20:25] <jmarsden|work> phillw: Is there one for "big brother" Ubuntu already?  Or was *that* only agreed 2 hours ago too?
[20:25] <phillw> (17:09:49) gema: #action gema to add lubuntu and Xubuntu testing updates to the agenda
[20:26] <phillw> they will as part of that add a section to QA area for both flavours.
[20:27] <jmarsden|work> phillw: Is there a section like it for Unity-based Ubuntu already, and if so, link please?
[20:27] <gilir> phillw, that means we need to do a status of bug fixed for this meeting ?
[20:27] <phillw> I suggested that we use the update that gilir issues to keep the QA team up to date, they also asked that I cc it to the qa mailing list.
[20:28] <phillw> It is early days, they are bringing in new stuff for this cycle,
[20:29] <jmarsden|work> So we're being asked to do something for which there is no example or template?  Hmmm.
[20:29] <phillw> for those interested in testing then the meeting logs are at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-30-17.00.moin.txt
[20:29] <phillw> jmarsden|work: there are templates, they were discussed, but mainly it is about getting the pre-milestones 100% tested.
[20:29] <wxl> oh man well i'm glad i didn't start testing
[20:30] <gilir> phillw, ok, I propose that we will look at the next meeting to see what's going  for this
[20:31] <phillw> gilir: fine by me, it was news to me, there is quite a lot going on :)
[20:31] <gilir> I'm not sure I understand what we need to do right now, or the benefice for us
[20:32] <gilir> [ACTION] Keep an eye on the next QA meeting for the specific Lubuntu part
[20:32] <meetingology> ACTION: Keep an eye on the next QA meeting for the specific Lubuntu part
[20:32] <wxl> whine i wanna start testing NOW ;)
[20:32] <jmarsden|work> wxl: Go ahead, this doesn't stop you :)
[20:33] <jmarsden|work> (well, maybe wat until this meeting is over!)
[20:33] <gilir> still no Yorvyk
[20:33] <phillw> wxl: ping me after the meeting, I will send you the links for the QA tests.
[20:33] <gilir> [TOPIC] Various news on Lubuntu devs
[20:33] <wxl> thx phillw
[20:33] <gilir> ok just a quick summarize of the recent news
[20:34] <Yorvyk_> Hello
[20:34] <gilir> I started to work on the session manager, there will be some change after the Alpha 1 on this
[20:35] <gilir> work also was done on Lxscreenshot, which should be already useable :)
[20:36] <gilir> Yorvyk_, ah :)
[20:36] <gilir> Yorvyk_, ready for your items ?
[20:36] <stephen-smally> confirm about lxscreenshot, is very simple, but should be ok for most of the users
[20:36] <Yorvyk> Can  anybody hear me
[20:37] <phillw> Yorvyklod and clear
[20:37] <phillw> *loud*
[20:37] <wxl> lxscreenshot works, but i wish there was more to it.. i'd rather use scrot at this point
[20:37] <gilir> stephen-smally, I plan to include it in lxde git tree, so after you shoudl prepare an official release
[20:37] <Yorvyk> \o/  at last!
[20:37] <gilir> wxl, you can ping stephen-smally about the features you want ;)
[20:38] <stephen-smally> yes, i'm anyway looking for screen selection.
[20:38] <gilir> stephen-smally, also, I'll try to work on lsc, to get a release ready for the next week
[20:38] <gilir> at least, translation import is working now :)
[20:38] <stephen-smally> gilir: we tested it a lot in these days and it seems to be stable
[20:39] <stephen-smally> but the po files aren't builded :-(
[20:39] <gilir> stephen-smally, yes, I think it's time to release something :)
[20:40] <gilir> stephen-smally, look at the last revision, you should have .po files now
[20:40] <stephen-smally> ohoh, found a bug now, time to solve it ;-)
[20:40] <gilir> Yorvyk, are you with us now ? :)
[20:41] <Yorvyk> Yes, I think so
[20:41] <gilir> ok, moving to your items
[20:41] <gilir> [TOPIC] Reporting minutes of meeting to Ubuntu News
[20:42] <gilir> Yorvyk, ^
[20:42] <Yorvyk> I thought it may be a good idea to do a quick report of the meetings
[20:43] <gilir> do you think we have enough interesting topics for them ?
[20:43] <Yorvyk> as it may get more interest and a wider audiance
[20:43]  * gilir is not sure it's the case :)
[20:43] <Yorvyk> Why not?
[20:43] <gilir> Yorvyk, maybe you can contact them, to see if there are interested ?
[20:44] <Yorvyk> I will
[20:44] <gilir> [ACTION] Yorvyk to contact Ubuntu News
[20:44] <meetingology> ACTION: Yorvyk to contact Ubuntu News
[20:45] <Yorvyk> Other news outlets appear to use Ubuntu News for their articles
[20:45] <gilir> well, if they are OK, I don't see any problems about this
[20:45] <Yorvyk> By the way - this meeting wasn't on the fridge calander :(
[20:46] <wxl> Yorvyk: it was
[20:46] <phillw> Yorvyk: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/
[20:46] <phillw> it was :)
[20:46] <wxl> but you had to use the "agenda" view to see it
[20:46] <Yorvyk> Ah!
[20:46] <wxl> or weekly probably would have worked
[20:46] <wxl> month view truncated the list
[20:47] <gilir> too many meetings :)
[20:47] <wxl> not sure why there were no scrollbars
[20:47] <Unit193> I have that calendar added to my list of GCalendars, that's another way to see it
[20:47] <phillw> I'll look at trying to squeeze it into the topic on the two chennels
[20:48] <Yorvyk> OK, next
[20:48] <david_j_r> I'm at fridge calendar, and not seeing it in _any_ view :?
[20:48] <gilir> [TOPIC] Basic user documentation all in one place, with index
[20:49] <Yorvyk> This hads been mentioned to me a few people
[20:50] <Yorvyk> I'm not quite sure what they want - and nor are they Ithink.
[20:50] <gilir> Yorvyk, it's about the wiki pages on help.ubuntu.com ?
[20:50] <jmarsden|work> Yorvyk: What is "Basic User Documentation"?  man pages???
[20:50] <Yorvyk> People seem to have problems with the wiki
[20:51] <gilir> what kind of problems ?
[20:51] <Yorvyk> I think what people are trying to ask me for is a basic set of howtos for each application.
[20:51] <jmarsden|work> Yorvyk: Do you have a clear definition of what "Basic User Documentation" means?  Otherwise, we can't put it in one place...
[20:53] <jmarsden|work> Yorvyk: Each application?  That's thousands of apps...
[20:53] <phillw> Yorvyk: I know that mario popped a site map on to help navigation
[20:53] <Yorvyk> I don't and it is hard work trying to get people to explain what they want.  I've asked for examples from them.  I thought I'd bring it up to see if anybody had any ideas
[20:54] <phillw> oops, soz, he updated the links. but there is a site map, not too sure what else we can do given the limitations of wiki?
[20:54] <Yorvyk> I think the problem with the Wiki is that people aren't sure what terms to uses to find what they want.
[20:54] <david_j_r> I'm just a newcomer to Lubuntu, but it's my future. I could would appreciate a list of the L* apps - e
[20:54] <david_j_r> i.e., the Lubuntu/LXDE specific ones.
[20:54] <david_j_r> Maybe already there?
[20:55] <wxl> yeha maybe we could just have a "help with apps" page
[20:55] <wxl> with all the lists
[20:55] <david_j_r> The "index" may be the key here.
[20:55] <phillw> I see no reason that such a thing could not be put on the FAQ/Guides area?
[20:56] <gilir> something more like this : https://help.ubuntu.com/11.10/ubuntu-help/index.html ?
[20:56] <wxl> i agree phillw
[20:56] <wxl> i like gilir
[20:56] <phillw> gilir: looks good :)
[20:57] <david_j_r> oooh - that's nice!
[20:57] <wxl> as long as it can be edited just the same as the wiki
[20:57] <phillw> it is a wiki apge :P
[20:57] <Yorvyk> I think that's what they're looking for
[20:57] <gilir> we need someone to do it :p
[20:57] <wxl> why don't we start with a simple list?
[20:57] <wxl> i mean crap i could start that
[20:57] <Yorvyk> I'll point a couple of them at that page and ask them if that's what they want.
[20:58]  * phillw runs into corner.... Yeah... i'll put into my list, please give me a week after someone provides me a complete list of L* programmes!
[20:58] <jmarsden|work> phillw: for now, you can get a quick list of lx* packages by doing    dpkg-query -W lx\*     in a terminal window
[20:58] <gilir> Yorvyk, good idea, maybe you can start a prototype later
[20:58] <wxl> i can do it phillw
[20:58] <phillw> wxl: by all means, go for it. I'll help you if you get stuck.
[20:59] <gilir> wxl, can I put an action for you about this ?
[20:59] <Yorvyk> The people I'm talking to don't like/understand mailing list or forums
[20:59] <phillw> jmarsden|work: I killed my VM's ... can't run Lubuntu atm :'(
[20:59] <wxl> sure gilir
[20:59] <jmarsden|work> phillw: Ah... OK, email me your VM problem.
[21:00] <gilir> [ACTION] Start to work on an index wiki page  for help (like https://help.ubuntu.com/11.10/ubuntu-help/index.html)
[21:00] <meetingology> ACTION: Start to work on an index wiki page  for help (like https://help.ubuntu.com/11.10/ubuntu-help/index.html)
[21:01] <gilir> ok, I think it's time to end the meeting
[21:01] <Yorvyk> OK
[21:02] <gilir> no emergency for this week ?
[21:02] <gilir> oh, and if you don't know what to do tonight : http://91.189.93.73/ ;)
[21:02] <wxl> hhehehe
[21:03] <gilir> #endmeeting
[21:03] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Nov 30 21:03:00 2011 UTC.
[21:03] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-30-20.07.moin.txt
[21:03] <Yorvyk> :-D
[21:03] <phillw> I do apologise for not being around too much, as you know - I had a fall out with my server provider & am in the middle of getting the new server set up!
[21:03] <gilir> thanks everyone :)
[21:03] <phillw> Thanks for chairing, gilir
[21:03] <wxl> btw i must say again that lubuntu rox. i am amazed that i can run lubuntu (vm) on lubuntu with as little ram as i have and a throttled processor and neither system totally sucks
[21:04]  * gilir time to finish ISO testing :)
[21:04] <phillw> I'll get my VM's up in the next few days.
[21:05] <wxl> alright so we're done so i'm out
[21:09] <stephen-smally> byr
[21:09] <stephen-smally> bye