[05:24] <bmg505> good morning :)
[05:59] <sakhi> Morning
[06:19] <Kilos> morning superfly and others
[06:19] <superfly> morning Kilos
[06:19] <superfly> and sakhi and bmg505
[06:32] <Kilos> superfly, how do you see what graphics card is in your pc without removing the cover and looking at the card please
[06:33] <superfly> lspci
[06:33] <Kilos> ty
[06:44] <Kilos> hiya maiatoday 
[06:45] <maiatoday> hi Kilos
[07:05] <superfly> môre maiatoday
[07:24] <maiatoday> hi superfly
[07:25] <superfly> meh. typical.
[07:25] <superfly> Why hire one senior developer, when you can hire two juniors for the same price?
[07:26] <superfly> Because you think you'll get twice the output, when in fact you'll only get half the output.
[07:42] <zeref> true
[09:07] <Kilos> guys where is the graphics card here please
[09:07] <Kilos> http://slexy.org/view/s21xaBrzfN
[09:07] <Kilos> am i totally blind
[09:08] <Kerbero> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82G33/G31 Express
[09:08] <Kerbero> Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 10)
[09:09] <Kilos> oh is that onboard?
[09:09] <Kerbero> ek aanvaar so ja
[09:09] <Kilos> not a plugin one
[09:09] <Kilos> hi jan
[09:09] <Langjan> Hi Kilos
[09:09] <Kilos> Langjan, 
[09:10] <Kilos> do you have a graphics card or are you using the onboard grahics
[09:10] <Kilos> dankie Kerbero 
[09:10] <Kerbero> plesier
[09:11] <Langjan> How do I find out?
[09:11] <Kilos> lol you look where your screen is plugged in
[09:11] <Langjan> Kilos, as far as I know its on board
[09:12] <Kilos> your lspci shows 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82G33/G31 Express
[09:13] <Langjan> What does that imply?
[09:14] <Kilos> i am not sure why 
[09:14] <Kilos> um
[09:14] <Kilos> why its got all nvidia drivers if there isnt a nvidia card plugged in
[09:15] <Langjan> Must I open up and have a look?
[09:16] <Langjan> But seems like its not using nvidia? 
[09:17] <Kilos> look at the back and see if screen plugged in at the motherboard level
[09:17] <Kilos> or in one of the slots right angled from the motherboard
[09:23] <Langjan> Difficult to say like that, its in the same area where all the sound, mouse, ethernet etc. cables are connected.
[09:25] <Kilos> ok look inside and see if the screen is plugged into a connection on the motherboard or if its in another card plugged into the motherboard
[09:25] <Langjan> I opened up, its directly into the motherboard
[09:25] <Kilos> ok
[09:25] <Kilos> now we need help from clever guys
[09:26] <Langjan> that's why I'm talking to you...
[09:26] <Kilos> i dont know if intel uses the nvidia drivers
[09:26] <Kilos> nee man
[09:26] <Langjan> ja man
[09:27] <Kilos> lets first make a backup so you dont lose everything
[09:27] <tumbleweed> intel graphics smost certainly doesn't need nvidia drivers. Neither does an nvidia graphics card, nouveau is fine for non-gaming
[09:27] <Kilos> you have a spare partition somewhere hey?
[09:27] <Langjan> the only thing that's not backed up is my emails
[09:28] <Kilos> tumbleweed, can we purge all nvidia stuff then
[09:28] <Langjan> everything else is on 11.04 on the other hard drive, oh except my firefox passwords
[09:29] <Langjan> passwords are not major issue, but emails is 
[09:29] <Kilos> where do you have the spare partition Langjan 
[09:29] <tumbleweed> Kilos: just don't even care about it
[09:30] <tumbleweed> Kilos: standard ubuntu intalls include drivers for all sorts of things you don't have
[09:30] <Kilos> tumbleweed, its giving hassles with dpkg configuring
[09:30] <tumbleweed> right, get rid of it :)
[09:31] <Langjan> tumbleweed, I like your drift
[09:31] <Kilos> im scared he ends up with a blank screen
[09:31] <Kilos> hehe
[09:31] <Langjan> me too, nervous hehe
[09:31] <tumbleweed> Langjan: have you checked lspci?
[09:31] <Kilos> ok Langjan 
[09:31] <tumbleweed> one does get onboard nvidia graphics
[09:32] <Kilos> first we gotta work out how to make email backup with thunderbird
[09:32] <Langjan> tumbleweed, kilos made me check lspci 
[09:32] <Kerbero> maak 'n copy van /home/*/.thunderbird
[09:34] <Kilos> Kerbero, gee asb die vole command
[09:34] <Kilos> volle
[09:34] <Kerbero> wel
[09:34] <Kilos> Langjan, have you got a usb stick
[09:34] <Langjan> yes
[09:34] <Kerbero> gaan in nautilus in, show hidden files bo in die view menu, en copy daai directory erens heen
[09:35] <Kilos> ok Langjan lets see if we get this right
[09:35] <Langjan> nautilus? onthou eks die oudste op die skinderkanaal...
[09:35] <Kilos> open home
[09:35] <Kilos> lol
[09:37] <Kilos> scroll through all the files in home and you should see .thunderbird
[09:38] <Langjan> I have been looking hard for that file for a few days, cannot find it
[09:38] <Kilos> do you see lots of files in home Langjan 
[09:39] <Langjan> Not too many, mostly my documents
[09:39] <Kilos> ok go to view and 
[09:39] <Kilos> um
[09:39] <Kilos> view hidden 
[09:39] <Kilos> tick it
[09:39] <Langjan> and some msf files that I put there 
[09:40] <Langjan> shows the same files
[09:40] <Kilos> if you tick view at the top you will see an option show hidden files
[09:41] <Langjan> it is ticked, still shows the same files
[09:41] <Kilos> i see over 60 folders and files
[09:41] <Langjan> and sbd files
[09:42]  * inetpro wonder of Langjan in die 'home' vouer is
[09:42] <Kilos> lots of files with a . in front
[09:42] <Langjan> not here
[09:42] <Kilos> are you in home Langjan 
[09:43] <Kilos> places home
[09:43] <Langjan> It says jan/home
[09:43] <Kilos> then scroll
[09:43] <Kilos> open again
[09:43] <Langjan> home/jan/home again
[09:43] <Kilos> should be /home first then only jan
[09:43] <Kilos> you must be in first home
[09:43] <Kilos> before jan
[09:44] <inetpro> Kilos: nee, in home/jan
[09:44] <Langjan> that one has one folder in it named jan
[09:44] <Kilos> sec i just look again
[09:44] <inetpro> maar jan is die sogenaamde 'home' vouer
[09:45] <Kilos> o ja skuus man
[09:45] <inetpro> daarin lê al die verskuilde vouers wat met 'n . begin
[09:46] <Kilos> now if you scroll there there must be lotsa files
[09:46] <Kilos> maar hoekom sien hy hulle nie
[09:46] <inetpro> Kilos: omdat hy in /home/jan/home was
[09:46] <Langjan> ok nou is ek daar
[09:46] <Kilos> sjoe ek was bekommerd
[09:47] <Kilos> sien jy nou .thunderbird
[09:47] <Langjan> .thunderbird ja
[09:47] <Kilos> ek dink dis die een wat jy moet copy na ander plek toe
[09:47] <Kilos> is dit reg inetpro ?
[09:48] <inetpro> Langjan: just make sure that when you copy thunderbird files that you have closed the application 
[09:48] <Kilos> ek dof met thunderbird
[09:48] <Langjan> dis 2,1 gig, te veel vir my drive
[09:48] <inetpro> Kilos: ja alles vir thunderbird is daarbinne
[09:48] <Kilos> mooi dankie
[09:48] <Kilos> evolution has a backup facility
[09:49] <Kilos> saves all settings and existing mails
[09:50] <Langjan> so must  I install evolution? 
[09:50] <Kilos> we need info from a thunderbird man to know how to make thunderbird backups
[09:51] <superfly> Langjan: no, just backup your .thunderbird directory
[09:51] <Kilos> no we must save all thunderbird info so you dont lose it if we purge nvidia and you got a black screen
[09:52] <Langjan> preferably on my other hard drive?
[09:52] <superfly> Kilos: ^^
[09:52] <Kilos> save it to your usb stick Langjan 
[09:52] <Langjan> its too much for my little stick, lol
[09:52] <superfly> Langjan: anywhere where you won't overwrite it, even accidentally
[09:52] <Kilos> ok onto another drive or cd
[09:53] <Kilos> ty superfly 
[09:53] <Langjan> CD is also too small, dvd?
[09:53] <Kilos> ja dvd fine
[09:53] <superfly> if you can write to dvd, go ahead
[09:54] <Langjan> I think my spare hard drive will be better?
[09:55] <inetpro> Kilos: getting a blank screen does not mean that your files will be lost
[09:55] <Kilos> anywhere you wont lose it if you need to reinstall
[09:55] <Kilos> ja inetpro but he wont know how to get back here to get help
[09:56] <inetpro> ok
[09:56] <Kilos> im scared it goes blank and he must reinstall maverick
[09:57] <inetpro> Langjan: don't install evolution just so you can make a backup 
[09:57] <inetpro> backing up a folder is peanuts if you just know how
[09:58] <Langjan> ok, how do I access the spare drive to backup onto, it does not seem to give me an option to create a folder
[10:00] <Kilos> dont you see the spare drive when you go places Langjan 
[10:00] <Langjan> yes I do
[10:00] <Kilos> open it there
[10:01] <Kilos> then drag and drop what you want to save to a folder in it
[10:01] <inetpro> Langjan: make sure you can create a folder first
[10:01] <Langjan> any folder?
[10:01] <Kilos> or make a folder on your desktop and name it backup
[10:02] <inetpro> yes, in other words, test whether the partition is writable
[10:02] <Kilos> then drag that to the spare drive
[10:02] <Langjan> ok its backing up 2,8 gigs
[10:02] <Kilos> skuus inetpro ek tik nog en sien nie jy't klaar gese wat om te doen nie
[10:02] <inetpro> always make sure that you COPY and not MOVE
[10:02] <Kilos> sjoe so much
[10:03] <Langjan> I can see the drives but am not sure which is which and where the partition is
[10:03] <inetpro> when you move data and run into errors you stand a chance to loose data
[10:04] <Kilos> should be the option of right clicking on it and go copy to
[10:05] <inetpro> Langjan: open two windows with the files and folders
[10:05] <Kilos> i think drag and drop copies to other drives but moves on its own drive
[10:05] <inetpro> one window with the source folder and the other you make sure that you're in the destination
[10:06] <inetpro> in the source folder you rightclick the folder you want to copy and choose copy 
[10:06] <inetpro> in the destination window you right-click in an open space and choose paste
[10:07] <inetpro> Langjan: how much diskspace do you have on the backup device?
[10:08] <Langjan> inetpro, what do you mean by "open two windows with the files and folders"?
[10:08] <Langjan> 1 gig
[10:09] <inetpro> eish
[10:09] <Kilos> no man
[10:09] <inetpro> Langjan: you open nautilus twice
[10:09] <Kilos> that drive is big isnt it
[10:09] <inetpro> or what are you using as the file manager?
[10:09] <Langjan> thats my flash drive, my soare hard drive is 160 gig
[10:10] <Langjan> spare
[10:10] <inetpro> Langjan: so copy it to the spare hdd
[10:10] <Langjan> thats what I think, only getting totally confused now
[10:11] <inetpro> Langjan: take it slow and make sure you understand each step before you do it
[10:12] <Langjan> I copied the files to my desktop and also to the desktop on what I think is the spare hard drive 
[10:12] <Kilos> slow down take a deep breathe
[10:12] <Kilos> hehe
[10:12] <Kilos> all yours inetpro 
[10:12] <inetpro> hmm... 
[10:14] <inetpro> Langjan: have you ever used the terminal
[10:14] <inetpro> ?
[10:14] <Langjan> yes
[10:14]  * inetpro feels much more at home with the terminal 
[10:15] <inetpro> Langjan: df -h
[10:15] <inetpro> please paste the output of that ^^
[10:16] <Langjan> jan@jan-System-Product-Name:~$ df -h
[10:16] <Langjan> Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
[10:16] <Langjan> /dev/sdb6              55G   46G  6.4G  88% /
[10:16] <Langjan> none                  491M  264K  491M   1% /dev
[10:16] <Langjan> none                  497M  6.3M  490M   2% /dev/shm
[10:16] <Langjan> none                  497M  120K  496M   1% /var/run
[10:16] <Langjan> none                  497M     0  497M   0% /var/lock
[10:16] <Langjan> /dev/sdb1              87G  9.2G   74G  12% /media/7602f1e5-f372-44fc-8fdd-34965ac12073
[10:16] <Langjan> /dev/sda1             144G   19G  118G  14% /media/fd52e2ba-e2dc-4ece-a831-c64dc69c8424
[10:17] <inetpro> sjoe
[10:17] <inetpro> funny names 
[10:19] <Langjan> inetpro, if it helps, I have copied that file in 2 places onto the spare hard drive
[10:19] <Kilos> inetpro, can i just ask you something
[10:19] <inetpro> ok so /dev/sdb1 is 87GB and /dev/sda1 is 144 GB both seem to have more than enough space available
[10:19] <inetpro> Kilos: sure
[10:20] <inetpro> Langjan: du -hs /home/jan/.thunderbird
[10:20] <Kilos> we tried sudo chown -R jan:jan /home/jan/
[10:20] <Kilos> it said permission denied
[10:20] <Kilos> even from root
[10:21] <inetpro> Kilos: why, that should never be necessary
[10:21] <Kilos> its one config file causing all the probs
[10:21] <inetpro> ls -ld /home/jan/
[10:21] <Kilos> mixed with bumblebee and nvidia
[10:22] <inetpro> everything in your home folder should always have the permissions of the logged in user
[10:22] <Kilos> Langjan, paste bin that to http://slexy.org
[10:22] <Langjan> 2.4G	/home/jan/.thunderbird
[10:23] <inetpro> ok Langjan which folder did you copy it to on /media/fd52e2ba-e2dc-4ece-a831-c64dc69c8424 ?
[10:24] <inetpro> Langjan: ls -ld ~/
[10:24] <Langjan> just closed it, will have to get back
[10:25] <inetpro> Kilos: 'ls -ld /home/jan/' is the same as 'ls -ld ~/'
[10:25] <inetpro> and that shoudl just give you one line of output
[10:25] <inetpro> should*
[10:25] <Kilos> ah sorry
[10:25] <inetpro> no need to be sorry
[10:26] <Langjan> drwxr-xr-x 57 jan jan 12288 2011-11-30 10:51 /home/jan/
[10:26] <Kilos> i remeber some ls commands that were miles long
[10:26] <inetpro> ok the home folder is still perfect
[10:27] <inetpro> ok now let's do this
[10:27] <inetpro> ls -ld /media/fd52e2ba-e2dc-4ece-a831-c64dc69c8424
[10:28] <Langjan> drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 4096 2011-11-27 23:48 /media/fd52e2ba-e2dc-4ece-a831-c64dc69c8424
[10:29] <inetpro> hmm... there's a problem 
[10:29] <inetpro> why is it mounted a root?
[10:29] <inetpro> as root*
[10:29] <Kilos> expain as you go please
[10:30] <Kilos> explain as well
[10:30] <inetpro> then again, is that an internal disk?
[10:30] <Kilos> forgotten all those read write things
[10:30] <Langjan> yes
[10:30] <inetpro> ah
[10:30] <inetpro> ok Langjan, please pastebin the following if it's longer than 3 lines
[10:31] <inetpro> ls -la drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 4096 2011-11-27 23:48 /media/fd52e2ba-e2dc-4ece-a831-c64dc69c8424
[10:31] <inetpro> hmm... there's a problem 
[10:31] <inetpro> eish
[10:31] <inetpro> ls -la /media/fd52e2ba-e2dc-4ece-a831-c64dc69c8424
[10:32]  * inetpro copied and pasted accidentally... just do the last line
[10:32] <inetpro> ls -la /media/fd52e2ba-e2dc-4ece-a831-c64dc69c8424
[10:33] <Langjan> drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 4096 2011-11-27 23:48 /media/fd52e2ba-e2dc-4ece-a831-c64dc69c8424
[10:33] <inetpro> hmm... 
[10:33] <inetpro> ls -la /media/fd52e2ba-e2dc-4ece-a831-c64dc69c8424/
[10:33] <inetpro> hang on
[10:34] <inetpro> please do: ls -la /media
[10:34] <inetpro> I'm sure those long names are just soft links
[10:34] <Langjan> total 16
[10:34] <Langjan> drwxr-xr-x  4 root root 4096 2011-11-30 11:01 .
[10:34] <Langjan> drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 4096 2011-11-22 12:55 ..
[10:34] <Langjan> drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 4096 2011-06-19 16:25 7602f1e5-f372-44fc-8fdd-34965ac12073
[10:34] <Langjan> drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 4096 2011-11-27 23:48 fd52e2ba-e2dc-4ece-a831-c64dc69c8424
[10:35] <inetpro> hmm... not?
[10:35] <inetpro> ok
[10:35] <inetpro> ls -la /media/fd52e2ba-e2dc-4ece-a831-c64dc69c8424/
[10:36] <inetpro> note the slash at the back
[10:36] <Langjan> Big outcome, must I paste it here?
[10:37] <inetpro> pastebin please
[10:37] <Kilos> http://slexy.org please Langjan 
[10:37] <inetpro> of http://pastebin.com/ .... maak nie saak waar nie
[10:37] <Kilos> the ubuntu one hangs my machine for some reason
[10:39] <Kilos> i think slexy is a lightweight one
[10:39] <inetpro> np
[10:41] <Langjan> http://pastebin.com/VFA9rdKK
[10:42] <inetpro> Langjan: sorry if I sometimes take a while before responding... getting interrupted by work
[10:43] <Langjan> Fine thanks inetpro grateful for the help.
[10:44] <inetpro> Langjan: hmm... that looks like a previous or a new installation. Do you still plan to use it as that?
[10:45] <Langjan> Are you refering to my other hard drive?
[10:46] <inetpro> Langjan: this is /media/fd52e2ba-e2dc-4ece-a831-c64dc69c8424/ which is mounted on /dev/sda1
[10:47] <Langjan> Sorry, I have no idea what that means. 
[10:49] <Kilos> that was natty i think inetpro 
[10:49] <inetpro> hmm... when you installed you must have skipped this partition unknowingly or on purpose and it's now just mounted as if it's an external drive
[10:49] <Kilos> 11.04 hey Langjan ?
[10:50] <Langjan> probably 
[10:51] <inetpro> /dev/sda is typically your first physical drive
[10:51] <inetpro> /des/sda1 is the first partition on that drive
[10:51] <inetpro> /dev/sdb is the 2nd physical drive
[10:52] <inetpro> oops... /dev/sdb1 is the first partition on that drive
[10:52] <inetpro> then you get /dev/sda1, /dev/sda2, /dev/sda3....
[10:53] <inetpro> and /dev/sdb1, /dev/sdb2, /dev/sdb3.... and so on
[10:54] <inetpro> your system root folder is always mounted as /
[10:55] <inetpro> in your case Langjan your root folder is mounted on /dev/sdb6
[10:55] <inetpro> that seems to be the 6th partition on your 2nd physical drive
[10:55] <Langjan> inetpro, when I installed 11.04 I selected a partition, I think about 4 gigs but I have to learn about identifying what is where 
[10:56] <inetpro> it does not really matter which partition you choose, what is important is that you know what is where
[10:56] <Langjan> these partitions seem to multiply uncontrollably every time a new upgrade is instakled
[10:57] <Langjan> it's a bit of a nightmare to me, I have no idea where what is
[10:57] <inetpro> Langjan: that's why it's best to take control and choose the partition scheme yourself
[10:57] <inetpro> during the installation you can choose auto or manual at some point
[10:58] <Kilos> in my honest opinion its safer to install with only one hdd plugged in at a time
[10:58] <Kilos> for us dom mense anyway
[10:58] <Langjan> inetpro, I have to be rude and ask if we can take this further at a later stage when convenient for you
[10:59] <inetpro> Langjan: hehe, I would not call that rude
[10:59] <inetpro> I'd apreciate that :-)
[10:59] <Kilos> later Langjan i see more on bumblebee and nvidia
[10:59] <Kilos> we will discuss it later
[11:00] <Langjan> many thanks, will try to identify what's where meanwhile
[11:00] <inetpro> Langjan: before you go
[11:00] <Langjan> yes?
[11:00] <inetpro> perhaps some reading will help you understand things
[11:00] <Langjan> ok
[11:00] <inetpro> hang on while I look for it
[11:01] <Langjan> thanks
[11:01] <Kilos> just and idea here. looks like bumblebee makes nvidia graphics better
[11:01] <Kilos> but there is no nvidia card so maybe thats the start of the problem
[11:02] <Kilos> how can you configure  nvidia graphics  without a nvidia graphics card
[11:03] <Langjan> vra jy my?
[11:03] <Kilos> nee ek se ek dink daar kom die probleem in
[11:03] <Langjan> ok, ek dog net jy dink ek is so slim...
[11:04] <Kilos> you should just be using ubuntu stuff and intel
[11:04] <Langjan> lmga
[11:04] <Kilos> lol
[11:04] <Kilos> ha ha
[11:04] <Langjan>  learnt that a long time ago
[11:04] <Kilos> lyk my as jy bumblebee kan kry om te werk is jy baie slim
[11:05] <Langjan> dis hoekom my BB nie werk nie 
[11:05] <inetpro> Langjan: the following doc should give you lots of the background http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Partition/
[11:05] <Langjan> Many thanks inetpro 
[11:06] <Langjan> Ons gesels weer later
[11:06] <inetpro> even if it may be a bit old and not very specific to ubuntu it's still very valid
[11:06] <Langjan> thanks, will have a look
[11:06] <Langjan> take care, until next time
[11:06] <Kilos> cheers Langjan 
[11:06] <Kilos> dankie inetpro 
[11:06] <Langjan> bye kilos
[11:07] <inetpro> Kilos: np
[11:07] <inetpro> Langjan: jy's welkom
[11:07] <Langjan> baie dankie
[11:08] <Kilos> eks seker nou sy prob kom van bumblebee en nvidia
[11:08] <Kilos> en hy het nie eers n nvidia kart in nie
[11:09] <inetpro> Kilos: don't make assumptions
[11:09] <superfly> Kilos: I don't even know what this bumblebee is
[11:09] <inetpro> Maaz: define assumption
[11:09] <Maaz> inetpro: Assumption \As*sump"tion\ (?; 215), n. [OE. assumpcioun a taking up into heaven, L. assumptio a taking, fr. assumere: cf. F. assomption. See {Assume}.] 1. The act of assuming, or taking to or upon one's self; the act of taking up or adopting. [1913 Webster]  The assumption of authority.          --Whewell. [1913 Webster]  2. The act of taking for granted, or supposing a thing without proof; supposition; unwarrantable claim. [1913 W
[11:10] <zeref> YaaawwN
[11:14] <Kilos> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/06/bumblebee-gets-a-ppa-brings-nvidia-optimus-graphics-switching-to-ubuntu/
[11:16] <Kilos> inetpro, we been battling months nowbecause he couldnt install or update because dpkg cant conf to an extra file that i am sure bumblebee or/and nvidia opened and tried to configure to
[11:17] <zeref> inetpro
[11:18] <Kilos> here is the reason i tried to chown his /home/jan
[11:18] <Kilos> chown: cannot access `/home/jan/.gvfs': Permission denied
[11:21] <Kilos> i have no idea what .gvfs is
[11:23] <Kilos> and how can it deny permission after chown /home/jan/
[11:24] <inetpro> Kilos: I think it may be because the files/folders were in use at the time
[11:24] <Kilos> ah that makes sense
[11:26] <Kilos> so ctrl+alt+f2 should get in before that hey?
[11:28]  * Kilos wishes that pc was in front of me
[11:28] <inetpro> Kilos: no
[11:28] <Kilos> got a big 14lb hammer for trouble pcs
[11:28] <Kilos> oh my
[11:29] <Kilos> maybe better he does a clean install now he has backups
[11:30] <inetpro> if you really have to change the ownerships and permissions then you can always add another user and login as that user before changing
[11:30] <Kilos> and stays away from bumblebee and nvidia
[11:30] <inetpro> but there really should be no need to change ownership and permissions in the home folder unless you messed up
[11:31] <Kilos> can a second user change permissions on the main users files etc?
[11:31] <inetpro> Kilos: no
[11:31] <inetpro> but root can
[11:32] <Kilos> i tried to chown from root as well
[11:32] <Kilos> sudo -i then chown -R jan:jan /home/jan/
[11:32] <inetpro> Kilos: the fact is that many files and folders in your home folder are in use by the window manager the moment you login
[11:32] <Kilos> it still said permission denied
[11:32] <inetpro> by the window manager and applications
[11:33] <Kilos> sjoe
[11:34] <inetpro> Kilos: 30/11 13:30:42 <inetpro> but there really should be no need to change ownership and permissions in the home folder unless you messed up
[11:34] <Kilos> ok
[11:35] <Kilos> if you remember he was here a few months back with the same dpkg prob
[11:36] <Kilos> anyway we will see what the outcome is when you and he get together again
[11:36] <Kilos> im sure its nvidia and bumblebee
[11:37] <Kilos> ill be back tonight guys. have a good day
[11:37] <Kilos> thanks for the help
[13:37] <Kilos> inetpro, can you give me the right command to use mtr to http://google.co.za please
[13:37] <Kilos> i read man mtr but cant work out what do actually do
[13:38] <Kilos> vodacom says they coming here tomorrow to check and i would like them to see the packet losses
[13:38] <inetpro> Kilos: s#http://google.co.za#google.co.za#
[13:39] <Kilos> without putting mtr in?
[13:39] <Kilos> or is that after the mtr
[13:40] <inetpro> Kilos: echo mtr http://google.co.za | sed -e 's#http://google.co.za#google.co.za#'
[13:41] <Kilos> ty
[13:41] <inetpro> :-)
[13:41] <inetpro> Kilos: mtr google.co.za
[13:42] <Kilos> ha ha en nou wat was daai lang echo storie
[13:43] <inetpro> Kilos: kyk wat gebeur as jy dit hardloop
[13:43] <Kilos> dit doen niks
[13:43] <inetpro> echo mtr http://google.co.za | sed -e 's#http://google.co.za#google.co.za#'
[13:43] <inetpro> copy en paste die hele lyn
[13:44] <Kilos> miles@P4:~$ echo mtr http://google.co.za | sed -e 's#http://google.co.za#google.co.za#'
[13:44] <Kilos> mtr google.co.za
[13:44] <inetpro> ahh
[13:44] <Kilos> niks meer nie
[13:44] <inetpro> maar dis mos presies wat jy nodig het
[13:44] <Kilos> huh
[13:45] <Kilos> dit loop dan nie
[13:45] <inetpro> echo mtr http://google.co.za   << dis mos maklik ne?
[13:45] <inetpro> Kilos: jy verstaan die eerste stukkie?
[13:46] <Kilos> miles@P4:~$ echo mtr http://google.co.za
[13:46] <Kilos> mtr http://google.co.za
[13:46] <inetpro> Kilos: jy verstaan die eerste stukkie?
[13:46] <Kilos> is dit soos n ping
[13:46] <inetpro> nee man vergeet eers van mtr
[13:47] <inetpro> ek probeer jou wysmaak wat beteken s#http://google.co.za#google.co.za#
[13:47] <Kilos> im lost
[13:47] <Kilos> o
[13:47] <Kilos> jy gaan sukkel
[13:48] <inetpro> Kilos: dit beteken eenvoudig vervang 'http://google.co.za' met slegs 'google.co.za'
[13:48] <inetpro> m.a.w. vergeet van die 'http://'
[13:48] <Kilos> hehe
[13:49] <Kilos> o
[13:49] <inetpro> Kilos: kom ons probeer weer
[13:49] <Kilos> ek moet net gebruik wat dit se na ek die echo ding gedoen het
[13:50] <inetpro> echo abc | sed -e 's/abc/ac/'
[13:50] <inetpro> Kilos: yep
[13:50] <Kilos> sjoe
[13:51] <inetpro> echo vervang iets met niks | sed -e 's/iets/niks/'
[13:52] <Kilos> sjoe
[13:52] <Kilos> daai abc ene is net ac
[13:52] <inetpro> Kilos: yep
[13:53] <Kilos> ok so as ek net echo mtr http://google.co.za doen sal dit my die regte opdrag gee
[13:53] <Kilos> ek kyk gou
[13:53] <inetpro> Kilos: nee
[13:54] <Kilos> ai
[13:54] <inetpro> vergeet van die echo en vergeet van die http://
[13:54] <Kilos> sjoe
[13:55] <inetpro> Kilos: mtr google.co.za
[13:55] <Kilos> ja dit werk
[13:56] <Kilos> maar hoekom gee jy al die echo goed eers?
[13:56] <Kilos> om my kop te laat opblaas
[13:56] <Kilos> hehe
[13:57] <inetpro> Kilos: ek's maar net vol nonsens en leer jou so bietjie meer :-)
[13:57] <Kilos> ha ha ha
[13:57] <Kilos> jou strond
[13:57] <inetpro> Kilos: jy sal sien dat ouens baie keer die 'search & replace' funksie van sed gebruik
[13:58] <Kilos> my syn eintlik baie beter
[13:58] <inetpro> as ek byvoorbeeld 'n spefout gemaak het dan sê ek
[13:58] <Kilos> min wat 90% verloor
[13:58] <inetpro> s/spefout/spelfout/
[13:59] <inetpro> Kilos: jy weet mos wat dit ^^ beteken?
[13:59] <Kilos> maar jy moes dit als self intik
[13:59] <inetpro> Kilos: obviously
[14:00] <Kilos> sjoe is dit nie maklikker om net *spelfout in die volgende lyn te tik nie
[14:00] <inetpro> Kilos: verstaan jy wat dit beteken as ek skryf 's/spefout/spelfout/' ?
[14:00] <Kilos> nee oompie
[14:01] <Kilos> behalwe dat die tweede een die regte spelling is
[14:01] <inetpro> Kilos: dit beteken maak die woord 'spefout' reg en vervang dit met 'spelfout'
[14:01] <inetpro> of dan soek vir 'spefout' en vervang met 'spelfout'
[14:02] <Kilos> ok ek verstaan as julle dit doen na n fout
[14:02] <inetpro> mooi
[14:02] <Kilos> maar dis so baie tikwerk
[14:02] <inetpro> Kilos: nou waar dink jy kom die gebruik daarvan vandaan?
[14:02] <Kilos> ?
[14:03] <inetpro> dit kom van 'sed'
[14:03] <inetpro> Kilos: man sed
[14:03] <Kilos> wie en wat is sed
[14:03] <Kilos> ok
[14:03] <Kilos> lol
[14:03] <inetpro> sed = stream editor
[14:04] <Kilos> ek sien so
[14:04] <Kilos> maar in jou eerste echo command was dit baie om te tik
[14:04] <inetpro> nou een van die baie funksies van sed is die 'search & replace' funksie 
[14:04] <inetpro> Kilos: there's method in the madness
[14:05] <inetpro> somtyds is dit minder tik
[14:06] <Kilos> sjoe soos die ene echo abc | sed -e 's/abc/ac/'
[14:06] <inetpro> Kilos: somtyds het jy lang lyne in 'n teks soos byvoorbeeld HTML kode
[14:06] <Kilos> dis klomp goed om te onthou en mooi reg in te tik om by ac uit te kom
[14:07] <inetpro> en sê maar jy moet alle website addresse met http:// voor aan vervang met geen http
[14:07] <inetpro> dan kan jy byvoorbeeld die volgende doen
[14:07] <Kilos> in mtr ne
[14:08] <inetpro> en ek gebruik maar net 'n eenvoudige enkel voorbeeld met echo
[14:08] <inetpro> echo http://my.web.adres with some more text | sed -e 's#http://##'
[14:09] <inetpro> Kilos: nee mtr het niks met die saak te doen nie
[14:10] <inetpro> in die geval waar jy '//' karakters wil vervang dan gebruik ek eenvoudig s'#http://##' in plaas van 's/http:////'
[14:11] <Kilos> inetpro, daar is niks eenvoudig met dit nie
[14:11] <inetpro> ag nee man :-)
[14:11] <Kilos> miskien as jy 20 jaar in IT is ja
[14:11] <inetpro> so eenvoudig soos val uit 'n boom uit
[14:11] <Kilos> ha ha ha
[14:12] <Kilos> as net een spasie verkeerd is dan neuk dit als op
[14:13] <Kilos> jy's net lus om my te straf weer vandag
[14:13] <inetpro> Kilos: ok, ok, miskien is dit die '|' (pipe karakter) wat ook nog vir jou vreemd is?
[14:14] <Kilos> ek sukkel altyd om dit te kry vit 303 se niek
[14:15]  * inetpro lol
[14:16] <Kilos> jy vergeet , as dit nie n outomatiese funksie was nie het ek vergeet om asem te haal
[14:16] <inetpro> Kilos: echo -e "lyn1\nlyn2\nlyn3"
[14:17] <inetpro> wat kry jy?
[14:17] <Kilos> lyn1
[14:17] <Kilos> lyn2
[14:17] <Kilos> lyn3
[14:17] <inetpro> aha
[14:18] <Kilos> sien dis nie net echo nie
[14:18] <inetpro> echo -e "lyn1\nlyn2\nlyn3" | grep lyn2
[14:18] <inetpro> en nou?
[14:18] <Kilos> wat doen die -e daar
[14:18] <Kilos> lyn2
[14:18] <Kilos> in rooi
[14:19] <inetpro> Kilos: dis maar net om vir echo te sê dat ons spesiale karakters soos \n gaan gebruik
[14:19] <inetpro> die \n karakter is die "newline" karakter
[14:20] <Kilos> carriage return + line feed
[14:20] <inetpro> ok verstaan jy wat gebeur het met die lyn? echo -e "lyn1\nlyn2\nlyn3" | grep lyn2
[14:20] <Kilos> nee 
[14:21] <Kilos> ek sien nie hoe dit lyn1 en lyn3 uitgehaal het nie
[14:21] <inetpro> ons gooi die drie lyne in 'n pyp '|' en stuur dit vir die volgende program 'grep'
[14:22] <Kilos> ah
[14:22] <Kilos> als na lyn2 toe
[14:22] <inetpro> nee
[14:22] <Kilos> lmga
[14:23] <Kilos> nou het lyn1 en 3 in die pyp verdwyn
[14:23] <inetpro> grep soek net vir jou elke lyn wat uit die pyp kom waarin die woor lyn2 voorkom
[14:23] <inetpro> woord
[14:23] <Kilos> oh
[14:24] <Kilos> nou hoekom sal jy so iets wil doen
[14:24] <Kilos> tik net lyn twee dan
[14:24] <inetpro> Kilos: dis maar net om vir echo te sê dat ons spesiale karakters soos \n gaan gebruik
[14:24] <Kilos> lyn2
[14:24] <inetpro> oops
[14:24] <inetpro> ok kom ons vat nog 'n voorbeeld
[14:24] <Kilos> haha
[14:25] <inetpro> gee kans
[14:25] <Kilos> wat het jy geeet vandag?
[14:25] <Kilos> baie eiers
[14:26] <Kilos> jy vol yokes
[14:26] <inetpro> echo -e "Naam: Koos Kombuis\nBert Cotzee\nKoos du Plessis"
[14:27] <inetpro> echo -e "Koos Kombuis\nBert Cotzee\nKoos du Plessis"
[14:27] <inetpro> vergeet maar eers van Naam
[14:28] <inetpro> Kilos: ok, praat ons teveel?
[14:28] <Kilos> ok ek sien
[14:29] <inetpro> ek wil maar net klaar verduidelik, maar ons kan ook by #ubuntu-afr aangaan as jy wil
[14:29] <inetpro> of ek kan helemal ophou 
[14:29] <inetpro> as jy wil
[14:30] <Kilos> ek kan nie verstaan hoekom jy al die moetie doen as net hulle name kan tik anyway
[14:30] <inetpro> Kilos: dit is net 'n voorbeeld om by my punt uit te kom 
[14:31] <Kilos> sjoe
[14:31] <inetpro> die punt is om vir jou te verduidelik wat 'n '|' (pyp) karakter doen en dan ook 'n eenvoudige voorbeeld van die sed program
[14:32] <inetpro> Kilos: net sodat jy kan verstaan
[14:32] <inetpro> jy hoef dit nie te onthou nie
[14:32] <Kilos> sjoe
[14:33] <inetpro> Kilos: amper klaar
[14:33] <inetpro> echo -e "Koos Kombuis\nBert Cotzee\nKoos du Plessis"
[14:33] <inetpro> en nou 
[14:33] <inetpro> echo -e "Koos Kombuis\nBert Cotzee\nKoos du Plessis" | grep Koos
[14:34] <afrodeity> my recovery mode boots into root prompt, any ideas why?
[14:35] <inetpro> afrodeity: is that not what you want?
[14:36] <inetpro> Kilos: skuus, ek sal ophou
[14:36] <inetpro> afrodeity: BTW, wb
[14:36] <Kilos> hehe
[14:37] <Kilos> sal jou terug kry
[14:37] <inetpro> ai
[14:37] <Kilos> ha ha
[14:54] <Kilos> o inetpro daai grep het net die koosies gevat
[14:56] <inetpro> Kilos: verstaan jy die konsep?
[14:57] <Kilos> min of meer ja
[14:57] <inetpro> echo -e "Koos Kombuis\nBert Cotzee\nKoos du Plessis" | sed -e 's/Koos/Gert/'
[14:57] <Kilos> maar dit baie ingewikkeld
[14:58] <Kilos> ah
[14:58] <Kilos> rename koos
[14:58] <inetpro> ahh
[14:58] <inetpro> Kilos: hoe meer jy dit sien en gebruik hoe minder vreemd lyk dit
[14:58] <Kilos> lol
[14:59] <inetpro> eintlik baie eenvoudig
[14:59] <Kilos> sjoe
[15:00] <inetpro> Kilos: maar dit het niks met mtr te doen nie :-)
[15:00] <inetpro> echo -e "Koos Kombuis\nBert Cotzee\nKoos du Plessis" | sed -e 's#Koos#Gert#'
[15:02] <Kilos> ek sien so
[15:05] <Kilos> die s#koos#gert# rename koos na gert toe
[15:06] <Kilos> thats why as jy verkeerd spel doen jy s/ hoekom nie s# nie
[15:06] <inetpro> Kilos: die # lyk maar bra lelik
[15:06] <inetpro> maar dit sal dieselle werk
[15:07] <inetpro> Kilos: maar om dit om irc te gebruik is maar net om windgat te wees
[15:09] <Kilos> many a true word spoken in jest
[15:09] <inetpro> Kilos: maar as almal die konsep verstaan is dit baie keer makliker om dit so te skryf as om uit te spel dat jy jammer is dat jy 'n fout gemaak en dat jy eintlik iets anders wou geskryf het
[15:09] <Kilos> jy het vergeet s/om/op/
[15:09] <Kilos> ha ha ha
[15:10] <Kilos> tik net die regte spelling in die volgende lyn
[15:10] <bakuman> Oom Kilos !!!!
[15:10] <Kilos> lo bakuman 
[15:10] <Kilos> hoezit
[15:11] <Kilos> i be back in 5 mins or so
[15:12] <bakuman> \o/
[15:18] <Kilos> back
[15:18] <bakuman> \o/
[15:18] <bakuman> partytjie tyd!!!
[15:19] <Kilos> lol
[15:32] <Kilos> bbl
[18:01] <Kilos> evening all
[18:02] <Kilos> inetpro, no more sed or grep
[18:02] <Kilos> bad for the head
[18:21] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[18:21]  * Maaz flips the salt-timer
[18:22] <Kilos> Maaz, rusks please
[18:22] <Maaz> Top shelf behind the calender
[18:25] <Kilos> Maaz, offer the lurkers some coffee
[18:25] <Maaz> Hey there all you guys out in the cold. Bring your mugs and have a cuppa with us
[18:25] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[18:26] <Kilos> Maaz, thank you
[18:26] <Maaz> Kilos: Okay :-)
[18:47]  * Kilos wonders if neil is home yet
[18:47] <Kilos> thats like 12 hours flying time
[18:56] <Kilos> hi BOB with a pipe
[18:56] <Kerbero> lol
[18:57] <Kilos> 2 pipes sorry
[19:23] <zeref> hmmm, how much would a pent 3 cost?
[19:24] <Tonberry> if you pay more than a good meal then reconsider it
[19:24] <Tonberry> imho
[19:24] <zeref> :O
[19:25] <Tonberry> p3 is 5 or 6 cpu generations ago?
[19:25] <zeref> yeah
[19:25] <Tonberry> fancy phones can outrun them
[19:26] <zeref> so roughly less than a happy meal
[19:26] <zeref> :P
[19:27] <zeref> but seriously
[19:27] <zeref> cost +-
[19:40] <Kerbero> p3 is throwaway
[19:40] <Kerbero> p4 i'll take for free
[19:40] <Kerbero> core 2 i might pay for
[19:44] <drubin> lol!
[19:45] <drubin> LOL
[19:45] <Kilos> hi drubin 
[19:45] <Kerbero> you seem bored drubin
[19:45] <Kilos> you enjoying that
[19:47] <Kilos> zeref, you will find that trying to get ram for a P3 is difficult and expensive
[19:48] <Kilos> i paid nearly a rand a meg 2 years ago
[19:48] <Kilos> R200 for 250m ram
[19:48] <Kilos> luckily my P4 uses same ram
[19:50] <Kilos> i dunno what happy meals cost
[20:02] <Kilos> http://slexy.org/view/s21F67hc2q
[20:02] <Kilos> thats for the clever younguns
[20:03] <Kerbero> yeah, did that happen to you?
[20:04] <Kilos> at times i feel everyone here is saying the same things about me
[20:04] <Kilos> i make lotsa I D ten T errors
[20:04] <Kerbero> well, you use ubuntu
[20:04] <Kerbero> which makes it ok
[20:05] <Kilos> yay ty
[20:06] <Kilos> i have even had school kids help me here
[20:06] <Kilos> ha ha ask squirm
[20:07] <Kerbero> o
[20:07] <Squirm> hello
[20:07] <Kilos> hiya squirm you well lad
[20:07] <Squirm> ah I'm doing ok hey. yourself?
[20:08] <Kilos> just telling Kerbero first time you helped me you were still in school
[20:08] <Kilos> im good ty
[20:08] <drubin> Kerbero: Not really
[20:12] <Squirm> I don't really help people here unfortunately. I would if I could but my knowledge is limited
[20:15] <Kilos> im still thankful for the help you gave me when i still thought pcs were only for very clever people
[20:15] <Kilos> night all of you sleep tight
[20:15] <Kilos> see yas tomorrow
[20:16] <Kerbero> nag
[20:25] <drubin> Maaz: tell Kilos it is always a pleasure! 
[20:25] <Maaz> drubin: Sure, I'll tell Kilos on freenode
[20:27] <Kerbero> if i want to put a date selector in a form on a webpage
[20:27] <Kerbero> what is the best/easiest way to do it?
[20:29] <drubin> Kerbero: Jquery date plugin
[20:29] <Kerbero> ok
[20:36] <zeref> hmmm
[20:52] <inetpro> zeref: and what's that all about?
[21:11] <zeref> inetpro: ?
[23:25] <Guest6161> anybody here?