| mhall119 | that would require a lot of work, and have a distinctly different look and feel from desktop Unity | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| mhall119 | AlanBell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mhall119/utv/index.html added a Dash with Filter | 00:09 |
| AlanBell | nice | 00:12 |
| AlanBell | filters might work well for the TV schedule lens | 00:12 |
| mhall119 | yeah | 00:13 |
| mhall119 | added search in the dash with onscreen keyboard | 00:23 |
| MrChrisDruif | On the etherpad you mean mhall119 ? | 00:24 |
| MrChrisDruif | Btw, aloha =) | 00:24 |
| AlanBell | mhall119: oooo, I like the on screen keyboard | 00:27 |
| AlanBell | and onboard can totally do that | 00:27 |
| MrChrisDruif | mhall119; it looks pretty good so far =) | 00:33 |
| mhall119 | AlanBell: it's a screenshot of Maliit | 00:44 |
| mhall119 | https://wiki.maliit.org/Screenshots | 00:44 |
| mhall119 | thanks MrChrisDruif | 00:45 |
| MrChrisDruif | How did you come to know of Ubuntu TV mhall119 ? | 00:45 |
| mhall119 | MrChrisDruif: I was at UDS-P when Mark announced it, along with tablet, phone and cars | 00:46 |
| mhall119 | then I saw Mark's blog about what Alan was doing, and thought I'd join in the fun | 00:46 |
| MrChrisDruif | IVI, not just cars | 00:47 |
| MrChrisDruif | Ah, grand designer AlanBell ;-) | 00:47 |
| mhall119 | he is | 00:49 |
| MrChrisDruif | Haha, don't let him hear it =') | 00:50 |
| mhall119 | AlanBell: do you have a problem with me putting my remote into the template file in bzr? | 00:53 |
| mhall119 | AlanBell: MrChrisDruif: What do you guys think of the "Program Info" slide? http://people.ubuntu.com/~mhall119/utv/index.html# | 01:29 |
| MrChrisDruif | mhall119; what page? | 01:29 |
| MrChrisDruif | nv, page 2 | 01:29 |
| mhall119 | yup | 01:29 |
| MrChrisDruif | I like it, but I'd have to think about it. Look good so far =) | 01:30 |
| MrChrisDruif | Maybe a bit busy in the top bar? | 01:30 |
| mhall119 | maybe, that's the Unity top panel though | 01:30 |
| MrChrisDruif | I know | 01:30 |
| mhall119 | implementation will be tricky, since the top panel is Unity, but the progress overlay is whatever playback app is used, and the one button press needs to trigger both | 01:31 |
| MrChrisDruif | How do you mean? | 01:31 |
| MrChrisDruif | Btw, I'm almost of to hit the sack, 2:32 AM here | 01:32 |
| mhall119 | 2 apps will need to consume the same keypress event | 01:32 |
| MrChrisDruif | That's not very difficult I think | 01:32 |
| mhall119 | I'm not sure if X (or Wayland) have a way of doing that, of if one of the apps will have to explicitly pass the key event on to the other | 01:32 |
| MrChrisDruif | Same are starting to programs in terminal with a single "command" | 01:33 |
| MrChrisDruif | But that is a concern for later I think? | 01:33 |
| mhall119 | a concern for someone else anyway, and that's enough for me :) | 01:34 |
| MrChrisDruif | We are now in the "dream" phase as I like to call it. Creating storyboards of what we'd like to see happen and look | 01:34 |
| MrChrisDruif | I think I'll add Ubuntu Phone/Tablet to my storyboard =) | 01:36 |
| MrChrisDruif | They keep bugging on the mailing-list about a desktop-mode...screw that, we don't need that on the TV | 01:37 |
| MrChrisDruif | With my storyboard they'll understand ;-) | 01:37 |
| mhall119 | I don't understand what they wanted different "modes" for | 01:42 |
| mhall119 | and the whole "It's just a large-screened PC" bit was just...wrong | 01:43 |
| mhall119 | a TV on the other side of the room has the same arc width as a small screen netbook | 01:44 |
| mhall119 | of a phone, if you're like me and still have an old SD-TV | 01:44 |
| mhall119 | or a phone | 01:44 |
| mhall119 | the biggest TV that would fit in my entertainment center would, from the distance of my couch, be equivilent to a 7-9 inch screen on my lap | 01:46 |
| mhall119 | or about the same as a phone in my hand | 01:48 |
| MrChrisDruif | Yeah, the bigger the better in my opinion, but still that's not to the point | 01:50 |
| MrChrisDruif | What I'm thinking about if there really IS the need for making it a second big screen the tablet, then share it from the tablet to the TV instead of making some kind of wacky desktop mode on the tv | 01:52 |
| MrChrisDruif | AlanBell; I should just disregard those early png's you created before Pencil? | 02:02 |
| mhall119 | MrChrisDruif: you sure those aren't PNGs exported from Pencil? which ones are you referring to? | 02:05 |
| MrChrisDruif | I'm sure, I'm referring (among 2 others) to this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unitytelly/progresspanel.png | 02:06 |
| mhall119 | ew, tubbies | 02:06 |
| MrChrisDruif | http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unitytelly/programlens.png && http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unitytelly/controlsinpanel.png as well | 02:06 |
| mhall119 | but that looks like it was made in Pencil too | 02:06 |
| MrChrisDruif | So yes, I'm pretty sure ;-) | 02:06 |
| MrChrisDruif | But at least before the "default template" | 02:07 |
| mhall119 | yeah | 02:07 |
| tgm4883 | MrChrisDruif, I agree, I don't want a full desktop on the TV. Although it would be neat to have an app that either A) acted as an extension of the laptop/tablet/netbook, or B) would display a shared application from the laptop/tablet/netbook | 02:19 |
| MrChrisDruif | So yeah, I'll have to get cracking with my storyboard and share it with them. I think they will like it ;-) | 02:20 |
| tgm4883 | MrChrisDruif, I disagree. Some may like it, but I'm getting the feeling some people won't accept anything but a full blown desktop replacement | 02:20 |
| MrChrisDruif | Haha, true that =') | 02:21 |
| MrChrisDruif | But I don't think we should that one let him let his way, it | 02:30 |
| MrChrisDruif | 's a TV for crying out loud | 02:30 |
| MrChrisDruif | Damn you ' =') | 02:31 |
| MrChrisDruif | Anyhow... | 02:32 |
| * MrChrisDruif is off to bed, but let's his client run. If you got something, just ping me | 02:33 | |
| dmj726 | tgm4883: Yeah, we shouldn't make the TV, just a desktop | 02:37 |
| dmj726 | That said, we should approach this from a standpoint of changing the UI to be suited to the TV environment rather than limiting what the TV can do. | 02:38 |
| imnichol | Hey, is the irclog at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/30/%23ubuntu-tv.txt? | 02:40 |
| imnichol | Because the last update to it was at 23:41 | 02:41 |
| imnichol | How up to date is that? | 02:41 |
| dmj726 | imnichol: It seems to be about an hour old at most | 02:44 |
| imnichol | Ok | 02:44 |
| imnichol | Thanks | 02:44 |
| dmj726 | imnichol: actually no | 02:46 |
| dmj726 | It looks like it's 3 hours old | 02:46 |
| dmj726 | which is more than it was the other day for me | 02:47 |
| mhall119 | after 23:59, it goes to /2011/12/01/ | 02:47 |
| dmj726 | mhall119 is right | 02:47 |
| dmj726 | so check the next day | 02:47 |
| imnichol | Ahah | 02:48 |
| dmj726 | mhall119: just looked at your mockup | 02:48 |
| imnichol | Wow, I'm dumb | 02:48 |
| dmj726 | mhall119: mostly I like it | 02:48 |
| dmj726 | Though I'd like to avoid typing when I don't have a good qwerty keyboard around | 02:49 |
| imnichol | MrChrisDruif, what did you think of Ian Nicholson's suggestion of allowing the full repos to be enabled? | 02:50 |
| imnichol | (I'm Ian Nicholson) | 02:50 |
| mhall119 | dmj726: I'd agree, but the dash has a search field, so I thought I'd show how it would be used | 02:51 |
| mhall119 | unfortunately, Unity is very search-driven, which is going to be difficult to use without a keyboard | 02:51 |
| dmj726 | mhall119: I have a simple mockup of a structure to avoid the need when you haven't already typed stuff | 02:51 |
| mhall119 | dmj726: did you read the caption below? it only goes there when you click the search button on the remote, otherwise it's all navigation by arrow buttons | 02:52 |
| dmj726 | mhall119: yes I read it, but I missed that | 02:53 |
| dmj726 | imnichol: I'd suggest something different actually | 02:54 |
| dmj726 | So have the full repos enabled by default, but have some metadata in packages that indicates something is intended for UbuntuTV | 02:55 |
| dmj726 | And have the software center only list packages that are flagged for UbuntuTV shown by default | 02:56 |
| mhall119 | I think we should just change the default theme and WM behavior to work better on TVs, and leave the apps and packages as they are | 02:56 |
| mhall119 | for example, new windows that can be maximized should start maximized | 02:56 |
| dmj726 | sort of like how software center doesn't show "technical" packages now by default | 02:56 |
| imnichol | dmj726, Wouldn't that require that we change the way that apt-get works? | 02:56 |
| dmj726 | imnichol: How do we determine if a package is "technical" or not? | 02:57 |
| imnichol | Seems like it would be easier to just harness the advantages of apt-get(repos) in order to accomplish this | 02:57 |
| imnichol | dmj726, Presumably that's what Canonical is going to do | 02:57 |
| mhall119 | then if people want to add Thunderbird to their TV, we don't try and make it hard for them | 02:57 |
| imnichol | mhall119, We're not making it hard, just disabling it by default so someone who doesn't know very much about linux doesn't accidentally install the gimp | 02:57 |
| dmj726 | Perhaps require the repository be installed but disabled by default? | 02:57 |
| imnichol | dmj726, What do you mean by the repo being installed? | 02:58 |
| imnichol | Do you mean set up but commented out in sources.list? | 02:58 |
| mhall119 | why not let them accidentally install the gimp, if we can make the GTK theme and WM behavior turn the gimp into something that's reasonable to interact with on a TV? | 02:58 |
| imnichol | mhall119, because that's way more work for like 5% of the people who will want that feature | 02:58 |
| imnichol | Make it totally slick and easy and hard-to-mess up by default | 02:59 |
| mhall119 | I'm not sure it will be, all the work will be done in only a handful of places | 02:59 |
| imnichol | Then have a switch for people who want to turn it into a full on computer | 02:59 |
| imnichol | There's no way that you can make a program as complex as the gimp easy to use with a remote | 02:59 |
| mhall119 | no, not with a remote | 02:59 |
| imnichol | And that's what I mean, the default repos should be programs you can use with only a remote | 02:59 |
| dmj726 | I think most of it is setting up the shell | 03:00 |
| mhall119 | but with a wireless keyboard and mouse, sure | 03:00 |
| dmj726 | and having the window manager be full screen only | 03:00 |
| imnichol | And then if you want to hook up a keyboard, you can do that and then enable the regular repos | 03:00 |
| mhall119 | dmj726: can't do fullscreen only, not all app windows support it | 03:00 |
| mhall119 | but like I said, any windows that can be maximized, should be maximized | 03:00 |
| dmj726 | mhall119: I do mean maximized | 03:01 |
| mhall119 | I know | 03:01 |
| mhall119 | but again, I don't think you can do that for all windows | 03:01 |
| dmj726 | any apps that can't be maximized just sit there as big as they'll go in the middle | 03:01 |
| imnichol | And honestly, those should probably be disabled | 03:01 |
| imnichol | It breaks the "sleakness" that we're (presumably) going for | 03:02 |
| dmj726 | imnichol: I'd rather hide them from being installed than actually disabling them. | 03:02 |
| imnichol | dmj726, that's what I meant | 03:02 |
| imnichol | Sorry for the confusion | 03:02 |
| dmj726 | np | 03:02 |
| imnichol | When I say "disabled" I mean, put in a repo that's commented out in sources.list | 03:03 |
| imnichol | Because after all, this will be a full on linux based system, so we shouldn't prevent people from doing anything if they really want to | 03:03 |
| dmj726 | http://askubuntu.com/questions/55130/how-does-software-center-determine-what-is-a-technical-item-and-what-isnt | 03:04 |
| dmj726 | imnichol: is that what the software sources GUI does when you uncheck the box? | 03:04 |
| imnichol | dmj726, I don't understand your question | 03:05 |
| imnichol | Could you rephrase it? | 03:06 |
| dmj726 | imnichol: I just wanted to make sure that the Software Sources GUI in software center was doing what you described as "commenting out" | 03:13 |
| dmj726 | so yeah, I'm fine with that | 03:13 |
| dmj726 | except... | 03:13 |
| imnichol | Oh ok | 03:13 |
| dmj726 | wouldn't we need to duplicate a huge number of packages to both repositories? | 03:14 |
| imnichol | And AFAIK, that's correct | 03:14 |
| imnichol | Yes, theres that problem | 03:14 |
| imnichol | Hm | 03:14 |
| imnichol | How many gigs to the repos take up? | 03:14 |
| imnichol | I've never hosted one | 03:14 |
| dmj726 | Perhaps have software Center only show things from the UbuntuTV repo by default | 03:15 |
| dmj726 | with a check boxes to show desktop or "technical" stuff. | 03:15 |
| imnichol | Ahh | 03:15 |
| imnichol | That's what I have been invisioning | 03:15 |
| imnichol | *envisioning | 03:15 |
| dmj726 | This is really more of a search problem than an access problem | 03:15 |
| imnichol | Didn't someone on the mailing list say that GNOME3 allowed applications to specify different interfaces based on some criteria? | 03:16 |
| imnichol | So that could be another option | 03:16 |
| dmj726 | Advanced: "Show Applications designed for other flavors of Ubuntu" | 03:16 |
| imnichol | yeah | 03:17 |
| imnichol | In any case, that can be something we worry about at a later date | 03:17 |
| dmj726 | So if I want GIMP and don't mind making liberal use of the window switcher and using a mouse and keyboard, I can, but I know it's not made for UbuntuTV | 03:18 |
| dmj726 | yeah | 03:18 |
| imnichol | But I think that a sane group of applications should be presented by default | 03:18 |
| imnichol | And then provide a "here be dragons" option for people who want to use Libreoffice/the gimp/whatever | 03:19 |
| dmj726 | Right, we don't want random desktop apps mixed in unless the user asks for that specifically | 03:19 |
| imnichol | Yes | 03:19 |
| imnichol | I think that's pretty reasonable | 03:19 |
| dmj726 | But we should let the user ask for that | 03:19 |
| dmj726 | yep, we're on the same page | 03:19 |
| imnichol | Cool | 03:20 |
| imnichol | Is there anyone else paying attention to this that has anything to add? | 03:20 |
| imnichol | I feel like mhall dropped out somewhere.... | 03:20 |
| dmj726 | mhall119: http://imagebin.org/185405 | 03:21 |
| dmj726 | This was my quick idea of what the Ubuntu button would bring up menu wise | 03:21 |
| dmj726 | same launcher design, just a different dash layout | 03:22 |
| dmj726 | imnichol: I like Ian Santopietro's idea of a custom DEBIAN/control flag | 03:25 |
| imnichol | The more I think about it the more I agree | 03:26 |
| dmj726 | and we use that as our default filter determinant for software center | 03:26 |
| mhall119 | imnichol: sorry, getting ready for sleep | 03:26 |
| imnichol | Ah. Catch ya later then | 03:27 |
| dmj726 | imnichol: I have open office on my phone :P | 03:35 |
| imnichol | What kind of phone do you have? | 03:35 |
| dmj726 | Nokia n900 | 03:36 |
| imnichol | Ah | 03:36 |
| imnichol | I've got a palm pre | 03:36 |
| dmj726 | It's a debian derivative | 03:36 |
| dmj726 | I never bothered installing Ubuntu on it though because it won't make phone calls when it's running Ubuntu | 03:37 |
| imnichol | I have a touchpad that I'd love to run ubuntu on | 03:37 |
| imnichol | Natively | 03:37 |
| imnichol | I want ubuntu on my pre as well | 03:38 |
| imnichol | You can run it in a vm, but I want it to be my only OS | 03:38 |
| dmj726 | Well, my n900 was basically me buying the closest thing to an Ubuntu phone I could get | 03:38 |
| imnichol | I'd get one and install Ubuntu on it | 03:39 |
| dmj726 | I've got straight up debian in a chroot | 03:39 |
| imnichol | I'm actually trying to get rid of my phone | 03:39 |
| imnichol | But if they release one with Ubuntu, I'll be hooked :D | 03:39 |
| dmj726 | Yeah, All I really want is an Ubuntu phone on quality hardware and either a slideout keyboard or dual screens | 03:40 |
| imnichol | I'd take a single keyboard | 03:40 |
| imnichol | (A single onscreen keyboard) | 03:40 |
| dmj726 | (I don't like to have to cover up my window with an onscreen keyboard) | 03:40 |
| imnichol | That's a valid complaint | 03:41 |
| dmj726 | I mean, hardware keyboards aren't hard to type on, but I like to see what I'm doing | 03:41 |
| imnichol | Its why I like my Palm Pre, portrait slider ftw | 03:41 |
| dmj726 | n900 ctrl+c | 03:41 |
| dmj726 | switch windows | 03:41 |
| dmj726 | ctrl+v | 03:41 |
| imnichol | Is it just me or has everyone(except tgm ;)) sort of agreed with the idea of a unity-based menu? | 03:47 |
| * imnichol is away: Away | 04:05 | |
| * imnichol is back (gone 00:24:23) | 04:29 | |
| tgm4883 | imnichol, about 450GB | 06:28 |
| tgm4883 | imnichol, also, I think there were more than just me that didn't like Unity as the 10' UI | 06:29 |
| imnichol | tgm4883, yeah I know, thus the wink | 06:32 |
| imnichol | Sounds to me like we want to keep the number of repos that we need to host down then, that's a lot of space | 06:33 |
| imnichol | Although if we create a special repo just for Ubuntutv applications, it probably isn't going to be as big as that | 06:34 |
| MrChrisDruif | Intresting discussion. Like the two of you said it should be very *WARNING Will Robinson* kind of decision, but an option I think it should be. | 06:59 |
| MrChrisDruif | As far as apps; how we sort it it doesn't matter for now, but either some kind of separate repo or hiding all "desktop" apps from the normal repo would suffice I think | 07:00 |
| * MrChrisDruif goes bed to bed. I hope Ian still saw what I said | 07:02 | |
| AlanBell | MrChrisDruif: yes, you can discard those early ones, I was just checking pencil out and messing with backgrounds | 08:17 |
| AlanBell | mhall119: go ahead and put stuff in bzr, the remote would be great. | 08:18 |
| AlanBell | mhall119: oh, but I think you put in the concept1.ep rather than the more useful basedesignframe one which is just slide 1 | 08:18 |
| AlanBell | http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ubuntu-linux-smart-tv-canonical,14096.html | 08:42 |
| MrChrisDruif | Luckily those people from Tom's Hardware got the 10 feet interface correct... | 11:44 |
| MrChrisDruif | And it feels like everyone thinks Mark thought along with us, while he only agreed with our feature list ^_^ | 11:45 |
| MrChrisDruif | Btw...why are they still using the old COF? | 11:48 |
| mainerror | Not sure but someone should tell them to use the new one instead. | 11:51 |
| MrChrisDruif | Good god, that's what you get when people use old blog's etc for their info. A quote from one of the replies "Mandatory Ubuntu One account? Not for me thanks" | 11:52 |
| MrChrisDruif | Haha =') | 11:52 |
| MrChrisDruif | Aloha mainerror | 11:52 |
| mainerror | Hello. :) | 11:52 |
| MrChrisDruif | Yes, I was gonna read all them replies and give reply here and there | 11:54 |
| MrChrisDruif | mainerror; it seems AlanBell already replied, but I made an additional note pointing towards our wiki page | 13:23 |
| mhall119 | 17:49 < daker> what are the essentiel features on a TV ? | 18:41 |
| mhall119 | daker: my essential features are: | 18:41 |
| mhall119 | 1) Stay as close to desktop Unity as makes sense | 18:41 |
| mhall119 | 2) Be usable from 10-20 feet away on a reasonable sized screen | 18:42 |
| mhall119 | 3) Be usable without a mouse or keyboard, only a remote control with a small set of buttons | 18:42 |
| mhall119 | 4) Optimized so that apps can be mostly used without being customized for TV | 18:43 |
| daker | i see | 18:47 |
| daker | mhall119, so to play songs you need to use rythmbox ? | 18:47 |
| imnichol | mhall119, if youd on't mind me taking this... the idea is that there would be a default, but we've been talking about how to allow people to change the default if they want. | 18:50 |
| * imnichol is away: I'm busy | 18:51 | |
| * imnichol is back (gone 00:00:41) | 18:52 | |
| mhall119 | daker: yes, but maybe with a different interface | 18:56 |
| mhall119 | like the sound-indicator's controls do | 18:57 |
| daker | and why not having some kind of a media center | 18:57 |
| mhall119 | daker: that's an option too | 18:57 |
| mhall119 | as long as it can be controlled through the remote, and integrates nicely with Unity | 18:58 |
| dmj726 | mhall119: http://imagebin.org/185405 | 19:44 |
| dmj726 | Thoughts on something like this layout for dash? | 19:44 |
| mhall119 | dmj726: are those boxes in the center launchers or lenses? | 19:48 |
| dmj726 | I guess they would be like lenses | 19:49 |
| dmj726 | basically pressing "Movies" would show you your movies | 19:49 |
| dmj726 | which you could then select a movie | 19:50 |
| mhall119 | ok, I can see that. It's a good design for desktop Unity's default dash screen too actually | 19:50 |
| dmj726 | More Apps would show a list of more kinds of apps | 19:50 |
| dmj726 | mhall119: hmm, yeah I suspect that the exact options given might be different for desktop unity though | 19:51 |
| tgm4883 | Is there technical merit to patching Unity for use as a 10' UI? Or is everyone just jumping on the Unity bandwagon because it's what Ubuntu already uses and/or they think that is what Canonical probably wants? | 20:19 |
| AlanBell | tgm4883: did you watch Mark Shuttleworth's UDS keynote speech? | 20:29 |
| tgm4883 | AlanBell, yes | 20:30 |
| AlanBell | http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/820 | 20:31 |
| AlanBell | and the second paragraph of that blog post | 20:31 |
| tgm4883 | If that is the case, then we can all stop with our designs | 20:32 |
| AlanBell | err, why? | 20:33 |
| tgm4883 | Community doesn't assist in design | 20:33 |
| AlanBell | if you say so | 20:34 |
| tgm4883 | I don't have to say so, it's been the experience of anyone that has attempted to try and change Unity | 20:34 |
| tgm4883 | AlanBell, I went to the discussions at UDS. It was very much "this is not designed by committee" | 20:36 |
| AlanBell | at UDS-P? | 20:36 |
| tgm4883 | yea | 20:36 |
| AlanBell | ok, so why do you think there is merit in doing design work on a 10' UI that isn't unity focussed? | 20:37 |
| AlanBell | because there is no way that is going to be proposed by canonical to OEMs | 20:37 |
| tgm4883 | Because I think Unity wastes too much space for a TV interface | 20:38 |
| tgm4883 | As odd as it sounds, you have less space on a TV | 20:38 |
| tgm4883 | so you need to use it all | 20:38 |
| AlanBell | and how will you convince canonical to propose that to OEMs? | 20:39 |
| tgm4883 | To propose to use something else besides Unity, or to propose to fix Unity so it doesn't waste space on TV's? | 20:41 |
| AlanBell | the former | 20:41 |
| AlanBell | fixing unity not to waste space on TV is what this is all about really | 20:42 |
| tgm4883 | AlanBell, Providing that OEMs want to ship a media center, it shouldn't be that difficult to say A) We are putting money behind X software for development and support, and B) We are using X software because it is a tried and true method, we just want to extend it a bit futher to meet our needs | 20:43 |
| AlanBell | yeah, that is how to convince OEMs | 20:43 |
| AlanBell | not how to convince canonical | 20:43 |
| tgm4883 | oh | 20:43 |
| * tgm4883 needs to learn to read | 20:43 | |
| tgm4883 | yea, I can't convince canonical. They need to try on their own | 20:44 |
| tgm4883 | AlanBell, so it all boils down to this | 20:44 |
| tgm4883 | I have zero issue with having the 10' UI codebase be based on Unity code | 20:44 |
| AlanBell | canonical want to go to the TV OEMs (probably cheap end of the scale) and propose their awesome new on screen display/media centre/app delivery platform thing that is theirs | 20:45 |
| AlanBell | there are some lovely themes for xbmc and it is great | 20:45 |
| tgm4883 | I do have an issue with how almost every single mockup I've seen is basically just Desktop Unity with some special lenses | 20:45 |
| AlanBell | but Canonical won't take that to the OEMs | 20:45 |
| tgm4883 | AlanBell, I know there are :) | 20:46 |
| tgm4883 | AlanBell, likely correct, and I think that is an issue | 20:46 |
| * tgm4883 goes to heat his lunch | 20:47 | |
| MrChrisDruif | Good night everyone | 23:32 |
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