[00:00] <Cheesehead> I'm sure we all have opinions.
[00:12] <SammySez> you like? not like?
[00:20] <greppy> SammySez: I haven't been a fan of Unity at all.  I'm still using gnome.
[00:20] <SammySez> thx. is Gnome still available in 11.10?
[00:21] <SammySez> I am hearing Unity is not very popular. I should just DL it to a VM and try it I suppose
[00:21] <greppy> yes, you can still get gnome in 11.10
[00:21] <greppy> it's just not the default. You'll have to install it.
[00:22] <SammySez> ok - thanks. Is it an option during install, or does it just
[00:22] <SammySez> hah
[00:22] <SammySez> was just going to ask
[00:22] <SammySez> is it an option during the install then?
[00:22] <greppy> ( I think... it's been a little bit since I had to deal with it )
[00:22] <greppy> nope
[00:22] <greppy> well, I take that back.
[00:23] <greppy> I didn't do a clean install, I did an upgrade.
[00:23] <SammySez> so I install 11.10, comes with Unity (and KDE perhaps) then I just need to read an article on how to install Gnome I suppose
[00:23] <SammySez> ahh
[00:24] <Cheesehead> Some people like Unity, some not.
[00:24] <greppy> you should be able to do an apt-get install gnome-desktop-environment
[00:24] <SammySez> I may have to do the same here. GRUB2 is a bit more complex and I may trip up my Windows installation unless I upgrade from 10.04 to 11.10. I may just wait until the next LTS, but so many apps I use are no longer updated in 10.04 - like Terminal Server Client for example.
[00:24] <SammySez> ok
[00:24] <SammySez> great
[00:24] <SammySez> that sounds pretty straight forward
[00:24] <greppy> then I probably left something out ;)
[00:24] <SammySez> I may give it a shot
[00:24] <SammySez> heh heh
[00:24] <SammySez> no worries
[00:25] <SammySez> it sounds like the bulk of it is not as painful as I thought it might be
[00:25] <greppy> I ended up giving mint a shot on my laptop after 11.10 didn't play as nicely on it.
[00:25] <Cheesehead> The transitions between different desktop environments in 11.10 is quite easy.
[00:25] <SammySez> yeah? I was gonna try that too
[00:26] <SammySez> yeah - I can switch between Gnome and KDE with ease in 10.04. My guess is the process is similar with later revs as well
[00:26] <greppy> 11.10 had issues with turning the backlight off on the screen and I couldn't get it back on.
[00:26] <SammySez> oh, I see
[00:26] <greppy> had a friend with the same problem on different hardware.
[00:26] <SammySez> I have that problem with 10.04 UNR on my Netbook actually
[00:26] <greppy> so since I was going to blow it up anyway, I decided to give mint a shot.
[00:27] <SammySez> If I use the OEM key strokes to set the LCD brightness - no problem. If I use the LCD panel-applet, it gets stuck
[00:27] <greppy> so far it's been great, but my laptop is mainly just a portable shell and gui to run chrome in :)
[00:27] <greppy> interesting.
[00:27] <SammySez> yeah - it seems Mint is a new rage and some are revisiting Fedora Core again.
[00:28] <SammySez> I really liked Ubuntu 9.10 and have felt it is on a downward slide since then
[00:29] <greppy> I like 10.04 LTS, but yeah, I have the same kind of feeling... I don't think I'll ever go back to a redhat based system as my home server or *shudder* my workstation.
[00:30] <greppy> I know it's kind of narrow minded but the redhat 6.x upgrade issues about killed me.
[00:30] <SammySez> any experience with using Debian upstream from the Ubuntu fork by chance? I thought about trying that as well
[00:30] <Cheesehead> I use Debian
[00:31] <greppy> you mean just using vanilla debian?  I still use it in a couple places, and honestly, would probably go back to that if mint causes me pain, or maybe move to it from the next server LTS if there are issues.
[00:31] <SammySez> Debian is probably more solid than Ubuntu in terms of updates, isn't it? I've never tried Debian natively, but with the latest Ubuntu releases I am thinking about finding something with less "fluff"
[00:32] <Cheesehead> Less Fluff = Xubuntu
[00:32] <SammySez> good points - I've never tried Xubuntu
[00:32] <Cheesehead> Debian is great, but different from Ubuntu.
[00:32] <Cheesehead> Ubuntu is easier to configure. More 'just works'
[00:32] <SammySez> yeah - that's what I thought, but I don't mind making the investment if I have less issues with the GUI
[00:33] <SammySez> ok
[00:33] <Cheesehead> Debian can be less forgiving if you file unresearched or duplicate bugs.
[00:33] <Cheesehead> Whereas Ubuntu will simply ignore them...
[00:33] <SammySez> I have puh-lenty of horsepower on this lappy, just need something a bit more stable
[00:34] <SammySez> I've never filed any bugs (that I am aware of)
[00:34] <Cheesehead> Stability is a function of testing.
[00:34] <Cheesehead> All distros expect you to test, and file bugs.
[00:34] <Cheesehead> If you don't file, how will they know?
[00:34] <SammySez> perhaps - all I know is I get more and more surprises in my desktop environment each time I boot
[00:35] <SammySez> time for a refresh and just want to see if now might be the time to think about another fork
[00:36] <Cheesehead> A well researched bug will get fixed in all distros. A nice way to contribute to the whole Lunix community.
[00:37] <SammySez> sure - if I knew how to do it. I do have other contributions to Linux as well
[00:38] <Cheesehead> Great. Your spelling is better than mine.
[00:39] <SammySez> where from in WI?
[00:39] <SammySez> I am near the Dells
[00:39] <Cheesehead> MKE
[00:39] <SammySez> I see
[00:40] <Cheesehead> I help some people in forums work diagnose various issues.
[00:40] <Cheesehead> I also sometimes work Bug Squad.
[00:40] <SammySez> I wish I had more time
[00:40] <SammySez> ;)
[00:41] <Cheesehead> We all would like that.
[00:43] <SammySez> may drop connection here. gonna try something.
[01:00] <greppy> I have long lobbied for a 48 hour day and a 14 day week.  ( while keeping the 8 hour a day work goal )
[01:24] <Cheesehead> How...French...of you.
[01:45] <greppy> Cheesehead: that's just so I have enough time to get all the stuff done that I want to get done. :)
[01:51] <Cheesehead> I simply shifted to Metric Time.
[01:51] <Cheesehead> Now I have 40 extra seconds each minute.
[01:51] <Cheesehead> Of course, coverting bus schedules is a bit hopeless, and I'm always much too early to appointments.