[18:06] <jdstrand> hi!
[18:06] <mdeslaur> hi!
[18:06] <tyhicks> hello!
[18:06] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[18:06] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Dec  5 18:06:51 2011 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[18:06] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:07] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[18:07] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[18:07] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
[18:07] <jdstrand> Thanks to the following people who helped Ubuntu Security last week:
[18:07] <jdstrand> * Gabriel A. von Winckler (winckler) for the phpldapadmin debdiffs
[18:07] <jdstrand> * Dominic Hargreaves <dom@earth.li> for the request-tracker3.8 debdiff
[18:07] <jdstrand> * Arnaud Quette (Uzuul) for help in updating the nut qa-regression-testing script (LP: #894476)
[18:08] <jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure! :)
[18:08] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[18:08] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[18:09] <jdstrand> last week was 'interesting' in that I did quite a bit, but not what I said I would :P
[18:09] <jdstrand> that said, I am in the happy place again and I have several updates I am working on
[18:09] <jdstrand> several MIR audits need to still be done that have been backburnered for too long
[18:10] <jdstrand> assuming I can actually do those things, I will do some work items
[18:10] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
[18:10] <mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
[18:11] <mdeslaur> and I have some updates for colord, commons-daemon and dovecot that I need to test and release
[18:11] <mdeslaur> besides that, I'm looking into the ffmpeg/libav issues
[18:11] <mdeslaur> and will pick up some other stuff from the list
[18:11] <mdeslaur> that's it from me
[18:11] <mdeslaur> micahg: you're up
[18:11]  * jdstrand guesses he could get more specific: updates are for vsftpd, python-django and quassel
[18:13] <micahg> working on updates, patch pilot, planning Firefox rapid release migration for lucid/maverick
[18:13] <micahg> also starting to plan for webkit 1.6 migration as well
[18:14] <micahg> that's it for me
[18:14] <micahg> tyhicks: you're up
[18:14] <tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
[18:14] <mdeslaur> micahg: 1.6 or 1.8?
[18:14]  * tyhicks waits
[18:14] <micahg> mdeslaur: 1.6 first, then 1.8 if we choose that for precise
[18:15] <micahg> to clarify: 1.6 in all stable releases
[18:15] <tyhicks> I am currently finishing up testing a fix for a private bug
[18:16] <tyhicks> I need to make some progress on my update queue and I'll probably focus on bzip2 first
[18:16] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: do you have an eta on the 1.8 decision? are you participating in that discussion?
[18:16] <jdstrand> err
[18:16] <jdstrand> micahg: ^
[18:16] <micahg> jdstrand: haven't heard back, will check with the Desktop team this week
[18:16] <jdstrand> tyhicks: didn't mdeslaur take bzip2?
[18:16] <tyhicks> jdstrand: nope - he took it and then gave it back :)
[18:16] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: nope
[18:17] <jdstrand> ah, sneaky
[18:17] <tyhicks> So I'll bet there is something exciting waiting there for me ;)
[18:17] <mdeslaur> tyhicks: nah
[18:17] <mdeslaur> trivial fix
[18:17] <tyhicks> mdeslaur: I do need to coordinate with you regarding the t1lib update
[18:18] <tyhicks> mdeslaur: Shall I run with it from here on?
[18:18] <mdeslaur> tyhicks: sure
[18:18] <mdeslaur> tyhicks: just make sure I didn't regress anything with the patch
[18:19] <mdeslaur> although I don't know how that could happen
[18:19] <tyhicks> mdeslaur: Will do
[18:19] <tyhicks> I need to patch, test, and upstream a fix for the eCryptfs statfs() max filename length reporting bug (LP: #885744)
[18:19] <tyhicks> Finally, I'd like to get a 'make check' set up in ecryptfs-utils for eCryptfs tr
[18:20] <tyhicks> oops... that is "eCryptfs trunk tests"
[18:20] <jjohansen> tyhicks: do you have the patch for that one already?
[18:20] <tyhicks> jjohansen: nope
[18:20] <jjohansen> tyhicks: I might, let me check
[18:20] <tyhicks> ok, great
[18:21] <tyhicks> jjohansen: You're up - that's it for me
[18:21] <jjohansen> This week I will hopefully finish squashing the bugs around aa namespaces and get fake stacking up in a ppa so the server team can start integrating with it.
[18:21] <jjohansen> I also need to testing on the new __d_path api, and once that is settled move apparmor to using it.  Oh and write some documentation for them on using it.
[18:21] <mdeslaur> jjohansen: did you find a solution to that?
[18:21] <jjohansen> oh and I guess I will try to publish a few kernel usns without breaking things
[18:22] <jjohansen> mdeslaur: yes al viro, created a new api
[18:22] <mdeslaur> jjohansen: cool, so we don't lose anything?
[18:22] <jjohansen> mdeslaur: we shouldn't but I haven't tested the api, nor changed the patch to it yet
[18:22] <mdeslaur> jjohansen: ok
[18:23] <jjohansen> mdeslaur: if not we do have a fall back that is I think 100% but its a lot more work as it relies on us getting our labeling in shape
[18:23] <mdeslaur> hrm
[18:23] <jjohansen> ie. work not planned for this cycle
[18:23]  * mdeslaur crosses fingers
[18:23]  * jdstrand keeps fingers and toes crossed
[18:23] <jjohansen> oh, and not on disk labeling
[18:24] <jjohansen> thats it from me
[18:24] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[18:24] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[18:24] <jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[18:25] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cableswig.html
[18:25] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gforge.html
[18:25] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ejabberd.html
[18:25] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/opensaml2.html
[18:25] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xmlsec1.html
[18:25] <jdstrand> opensaml2 and xmlsec1 should only need a merge from Debian per http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/
[18:26] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[18:26] <jdstrand> I have one thing
[18:27] <jdstrand> last week I did a work items analysis which culminated in http://people.canonical.com/~jamie/wi/precise-canonical-security.html
[18:27] <jdstrand> that page is rough, but it gives a percent completed and sums the days we initially estimated to complete the work
[18:28] <tyhicks> nice!
[18:28] <jdstrand> because we commit to essential and try hard to get all our high work items, there are separate stats for them
[18:28] <tyhicks> jdstrand: I think I spot a small mistake in my row
[18:28] <jdstrand> it should also be updated automatically via cron based on the work items tracker output
[18:29] <jdstrand> tyhicks: I don't doubt it :) let's talk after the meeting
[18:29] <tyhicks> sounds good :)
[18:29] <jdstrand> so, the is preliminary of course
[18:30] <jdstrand> but in general, I think looking at essential and high, the work is properly loaded
[18:30] <jdstrand> we can discuss specifics in #ubuntu-hardened after the meeting if there aer questions
[18:30] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[18:31] <jdstrand> 'work is properly loaded' sounds funny. I should say 'the work load is correctly distributed'
[18:33] <jdstrand> ok, thanks everybody!
[18:33] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[18:33] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Dec  5 18:33:20 2011 UTC.
[18:33] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-05-18.06.moin.txt
[18:33] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
[18:33] <tyhicks> thanks jdstrand
[18:33] <micahg> thanks jdstrand
[18:39] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
[19:02]  * stgraber waves
[19:03]  * micahg waves
[19:03] <tumbleweed> .
[19:03] <jtaylor> hi
[19:04] <micahg> bdrung: DMB meeting?
[19:04] <tumbleweed> and jbicha isn't online...
[19:04] <stgraber> and I didn't see a reply to Laney's e-mail either
[19:04] <micahg> geser: we have quorum for the first part of the meeting :)
[19:05] <geser> ok, let's begin
[19:05] <geser> #startmeeting
[19:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Dec  5 19:05:16 2011 UTC.  The chair is geser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[19:05] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[19:05] <geser> Welcome to the Developer Membership Board meeting
[19:06] <geser> #topic Review of previous action items
[19:07] <geser> * Laney to document package set application process
[19:07] <geser> what's the status of this?
[19:07] <tumbleweed> looks done
[19:07] <micahg> geser: Laney isn't around ATM, but looks does
[19:07] <geser> ok
[19:08] <geser> * micahg to ping all packageset teams to get a description we can use for future changes
[19:08] <micahg> geser: not done yet, will try to have that finished before the next meeting
[19:09] <geser> ok, is there a wiki page documentating the ones you got already a response?
[19:09] <micahg> I haven't sent out the initial mails yet :(
[19:09] <geser> ok
[19:09] <geser> * tumbleweed to create private DMB channel for realtime use during meetings
[19:10] <geser> this is done
[19:10] <tumbleweed> it's currently invite-only, so not useful for people with questions
[19:10] <tumbleweed> (unless they get invited)
[19:11] <geser> * jbicha to create a list of packages from the .modules files for the desktop-extra package set
[19:11] <geser> did we get that list? (I haven't checked my mails today yet)
[19:11] <tumbleweed> nope
[19:11] <tumbleweed> and no sign of him
[19:11] <geser> so the "desktop-extra" package set is on hold too, right?
[19:12] <tumbleweed> oh, hang on, he's online again
[19:12] <tumbleweed> I think I whoised him on the wrong network before...
[19:13] <tumbleweed> ...anyway, not here now...
[19:13]  * bdrung waves.
[19:14] <geser> in which timezone does he live? is it a time zone problem?
[19:14] <stgraber> launchpad says US eastern
[19:15] <stgraber> so both timezones shouldn't be too bad if he can connect from work
[19:15] <geser> let's hope we get a list for the next meeting (to get this finally done)
[19:16] <geser> #topic MOTU application: Julian Taylor
[19:16] <geser> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JulianTaylor/MOTUApplication
[19:16] <stgraber> yeah, I'm not against discussing it on the mailing-list so we don't need jbicha to be at the meeting. If we have the list and everything before, we can probably just vote on it
[19:16] <geser> jtaylor: your stage :)
[19:17] <stgraber> I don't think the package set was controversial or anything, we really just needed the list :)
[19:17] <jtaylor> hi, most of you have probably already seen me hanging around in the various ubuntu irc channels
[19:18] <jtaylor> I have now been involved in ubuntu and debian for almost a year in various areas, packaging, bug triaging, education
[19:19] <jtaylor> I was recently involved in a few transitions and tasks in ubuntu, namely as-needed fixing, dh_python2 transition and mono 2.10 transition
[19:19] <jtaylor> I now want to apply for motu membership to relieve the sponsors from some work :)
[19:20] <tumbleweed> 'bout time :)
[19:20] <stgraber> cool, so a few questions based on recent events :) are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce and read it usually within 24 hours of an e-mail getting on there? :)
[19:20] <jtaylor> yes I'm subscribed to -announce and -motu and usually read it at least once a day
[19:21] <stgraber> good
[19:21] <jtaylor> also -ubuntu-devel
[19:21] <jtaylor> (+ main debian lists)
[19:21] <stgraber> now we're on alpha-2 release week and you have some universe packages to upload, what do you check and what do you do?
[19:22] <jtaylor> before alpha the archive is a soft freeze to not distrupt the iso building
[19:22] <jtaylor> but so far I know that should only affect main
[19:23] <stgraber> nope, it doesn't, that's the tricky part :)
[19:23] <geser> s/main/packages on CDs/
[19:23] <micahg> s/CDs/images/
[19:23] <geser> and some flavours build from universe
[19:23]  * tumbleweed just wrote a tool to check that, I'd love reviews of it :)
[19:24] <stgraber> basically anything that's seeded (be it main or universe) and that's not exclusively in the SUPPORTED seed
[19:24] <micahg> tumbleweed: I'd love to :)
[19:24] <stgraber> tumbleweed: awesome!
[19:25] <tumbleweed> [OT]: lp:~stefanor/ubuntu-dev-tools/on-images-876554
[19:25] <tumbleweed> back to regular programming...
[19:25] <jtaylor> ah ok, should I be accepted I'll of course check up with expericend members before every action I do
[19:25] <stgraber> jtaylor: so yeah, not touching anything on the ISO during a release week without poking the release team about it is the right answer, just be careful as we have quite a few of them in universe now
[19:26] <geser> jtaylor: no worry, I've to remember myself about this too when it's time for a soft freeze
[19:27] <tumbleweed> jtaylor: any ideas for dealing with bugs that remain unfixed forever? I suspect you doing your best to fix them all would lead to burnout rather than a real improvement... :/
[19:28] <geser> tumbleweed: invent cloning :)
[19:28] <tumbleweed> yeah, we could use more jtaylors
[19:28] <jtaylor> I currently follow the procedure that when someone asks directly via email or irc about an annoying I try to get it fixed or at least on the right track
[19:29] <tumbleweed> sure, I do that too. But then we just fix the issues raised by people who know ubuntu-developers...
[19:30] <micahg> jtaylor: are you aware of how to get the relevant changelog entries into a .changes file and verify they're in there?
[19:32] <jtaylor> hm dpkg-genchanges creates the changes files, and you can read them with a text editor
[19:33] <micahg> jtaylor: right, but how do you make sure that the relevant entries are in there?  default is just the last entry
[19:34] <jtaylor> I don't know :/
[19:34] <stgraber> micahg: you mean, like when merging from Debian?
[19:35] <micahg> jtaylor: if you pass -v to dpkg-buildpackage (or debuild) with the last version uploaded, you'll get all the entries after that version
[19:35] <micahg> stgraber: yes
[19:36] <jtaylor> ah it passes that to dpkg-genchanges
[19:36] <jtaylor> not scanned the manpage fast enough ;)
[19:36] <micahg> jtaylor: right :)
[19:37] <geser> any other questions?
[19:38]  * stgraber is ready to vote
[19:39]  * micahg is ready
[19:39] <geser> #vote Should Julian Taylor become a MOTU?
[19:39] <meetingology> Please vote on: Should Julian Taylor become a MOTU?
[19:39] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[19:39] <tumbleweed> +1 [ I endorsed him ]
[19:39] <meetingology> +1 [ I endorsed him ] received from tumbleweed
[19:39] <geser> +1
[19:39] <meetingology> +1 received from geser
[19:39] <stgraber> +1
[19:39] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[19:39] <bdrung> +1
[19:39] <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
[19:39] <micahg> +1 good packaging work, good interaction w/peers and community in general
[19:39] <meetingology> +1 good packaging work, good interaction w/peers and community in general received from micahg
[19:40] <geser> #endvote
[19:40] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Julian Taylor become a MOTU?
[19:40] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:40] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:40] <tumbleweed> that was easy
[19:40] <tumbleweed> jtaylor: congratulations
[19:40] <micahg> jtaylor: congratulations
[19:40] <jtaylor> thanks :)
[19:40] <stgraber> congrats!
[19:41] <geser> #topic Core Dev application: Micah Gersten
[19:41] <geser> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/micahg/CoreDevApplication
[19:41]  * micahg moves to the other side of the table
[19:41] <geser> micahg: your stage
[19:41] <stgraber> ah yeah, right, he isn't a core dev :)
[19:42] <micahg> HI, I've been an Ubuntu developer for about 18 months now, working on various things, FTBFS, RC Bugs, Xubuntu, Mozilla stack
[19:43] <stgraber> win 40
[19:43] <stgraber> doh :)
[19:43] <jbicha> and you helped keep
[19:43] <jbicha> Chromium going!
[19:44] <micahg> I enjoy solving problems (getting pkg-config and cmake to play nice was fun)
[19:44] <geser> micahg: what's the biggest difference between MOTU and core-dev in your eyes?
[19:47] <micahg> geser: Both are generalists, core-dev I believe is expected to know more about the possible impact of changes that updating a package can have on the rest of the archive, also be a driver of transitions and other release related activities (with consultation with the release team of course)
[19:48] <geser> based on the comments in your application, I guess there is no need to ask you questions about policies :)
[19:48] <micahg> A core-dev is also a leader that tries to help other developers DTRT or fix other issues
[19:49] <micahg> geser: I still have plenty to learn :)
[19:49] <tumbleweed> micahg: do you see any solutions to the latest-crack-in-PPAs issue you raise?
[19:49] <stgraber> micahg: so are you subscribed and reading -announce? :P
[19:50] <micahg> tumbleweed: well, the -backports team seems to have new life thanks to you and broder, I recently became a member of that team as well, I think we can leverage -backports for some of those packages, as for others, I don't think I have an answer for it ATM
[19:51]  * tumbleweed isn't even part of the team, but shh
[19:51] <micahg> stgraber: yes, I post there sometimes as well :)
[19:51] <micahg> tumbleweed: you helped make tools :)
[19:52] <geser> any other questions?
[19:52]  * tumbleweed is done
[19:52] <stgraber> nope
[19:53] <geser> #vote Should Micah Gersten become an Ubuntu Core-Dev?
[19:53] <meetingology> Please vote on: Should Micah Gersten become an Ubuntu Core-Dev?
[19:53] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[19:53] <geser> +1
[19:53] <meetingology> +1 received from geser
[19:53] <bdrung> +1
[19:53] <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
[19:53] <stgraber> +1
[19:53] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[19:53] <tumbleweed> +1
[19:53] <meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
[19:53] <geser> #endvote
[19:53] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Micah Gersten become an Ubuntu Core-Dev?
[19:53] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:53] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:54] <micahg> I'm honored, thank you :)
[19:55] <jbicha> My apologies for being late again, do we have enough time left in the meeting?
[19:55] <geser> as jbichs is now here, let's get back to: * jbicha to create a list of packages from the .modules files for the desktop-extra package set
[19:55] <tumbleweed> jbicha: I see you just mailed us
[19:57] <stgraber> looks good, I just wouldn't move vinagre for now until it's been officially dropped
[19:58] <jbicha> stgraber: yes, that makes sense
[19:58] <stgraber> I'm guessing all the -sharp moving from -desktop and core are because of the drop of tomboy, gbrainy and banshee?
[19:59] <cody-somerville> +1
[19:59] <micahg> I'm not comfortable with mono in there
[19:59] <jbicha> micahg: why not?
[20:00] <stgraber> micahg: I tend to agree with you, especially as we'll likely keep it in main as a common build-dep for a few packages in main
[20:00] <micahg> jbicha: it's an entirely different system of packages
[20:00] <stgraber> micahg: I'm quite surprised it's not currently in core
[20:01] <micahg> jbicha: I'm fine with GTK/GLIB based apps and libraries
[20:01] <jbicha> stgraber: maybe it's still in core?
[20:02] <stgraber> jbicha: could be, I just assumed that if he wasn't in your list of stuff to drop from core it's because it currently isn't
[20:02] <micahg> stgraber: I think since Kubuntu doesn't use it maybe
[20:02] <jbicha> micahg: you're proposing that the set description say "except Mono" ?
[20:02] <stgraber> yeah, it's in core currently
[20:03] <stgraber> and also in cli-mono
[20:03] <stgraber> and some bits are in ubuntu-desktop
[20:03] <micahg> jbicha: no, I'd like it limited to GTK based apps/libraries, not cores of other stacks
[20:04]  * micahg remembers pulseaudio on the original list but not in this update
[20:05] <geser> do you want to discuss this now or per mail till the next meeting and/or IRC with #ubuntu-desktop?
[20:05] <jbicha> micahg: ok, are you saying no to mono, but banshee for instance would still be ok?
[20:06] <stgraber> banshee would be fine as it's part of the gnome project and not in the default install
[20:06] <stgraber> mono is a programming language that's not part of the gnome project
[20:06] <micahg> jbicha: yeah, since that's a GTK based app, I think that's fine + what stgraber said
[20:06] <jbicha> ah ok, I don't have a problem with that then
[20:06] <jbicha> I just misunderstand :)
[20:06] <stgraber> in most cases I'm fine pulling some of the dependencies in the package sets, but pulling a whole language seems a bit too much :)
[20:07] <micahg> yeah, I'd like to limit it to things that are developed as part of the GNOME project and not their core dependencies (pulseaudio, mono)
[20:08] <geser> are you ready to vote on the package set? or on the next meeting?
[20:09] <stgraber> I'd rather have a new package list. I don't think it's blocking a lot of work at the moment and I'd rather have it done properly the first time around
[20:10] <jbicha> maybe vote on the mailing list?
[20:10] <micahg> +1, I'd like a definition that limits this to GNOME developed apps as well (I think any external dependencies could be posed as an exception if it's worth adding)
[20:12] <geser> ok, so next meeting it is
[20:12] <geser> any other business?
[20:13] <geser> any volunteers for chair?
[20:13] <stgraber> geser: next one in alphabetical order, or just re-assign to cody :)
[20:14] <geser> ok
[20:14] <geser> #endmeeting
[20:14] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Dec  5 20:14:04 2011 UTC.
[20:14] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-05-19.05.moin.txt
[20:17] <micahg> thanks geser