[07:54] <dholbach> good morning
[08:58] <yaili> good morning
[09:00] <nigelb> Morning yaili. How was the move? :)
[09:01] <yaili> nigelb: good, thanks
[09:02] <nigelb> :)
[09:14] <mainerror> Good morning.
[11:39] <doctormon> hey mainerror
[11:40] <doctormon> MrChrisDruif: Yes
[16:59] <wendar> meeting coming up in a few minutes...
[16:59] <MrChrisDruif> I'll try to attend it with my mobile
[17:02]  * MrChrisDruif is semi present
[17:04] <wendar> greetings all
[17:05] <wendar> #startmeeting
[17:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Dec  7 17:05:18 2011 UTC.  The chair is wendar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
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[17:05] <AlanBell> o/
[17:06] <wendar> I've started collecting introductions, so we all know who eachother are
[17:06] <wendar> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Introductions
[17:06] <wendar> anyone new this week, like to say hi and let us know what you're interested in?
[17:08] <bwinton> Hi, I'm Blake Winton, the UX lead for Thunderbird.  I don't really have a lot to say here, so I'll mostly be lurking.  ;)
[17:08] <wendar> welcome, bwinton :)
[17:09] <wendar> everyone, feel free to edit the introduction I pasted in for you (straight from earlier meetings)
[17:09] <wendar> or, add one if I missed you
[17:09] <wendar> [TOPIC] current projects
[17:10] <wendar> The two main things we're working on at the moment are a quick design review of the 4digits game, and more generally on design tools.
[17:10] <wendar> (tools/worklflows)
[17:11] <wendar> Any updates on the tools front over the past week?
[17:13] <wendar> What I'd like to do today is more of a practical working session, that actually involves both projects.
[17:14] <wendar> Specifically, the next step on 4digits is to start taking screenshots, marking them up, and figuring out what we want to improve.
[17:14] <wendar> But, we're struggling a bit with tools.
[17:15] <wendar> One suggestion is inkscape, but it's hard for multiple people to collaborate over an inkscape doc.
[17:15] <wendar> A bunch of people have been trying out different tools in the past few weeks.
[17:16] <wendar> Do you have some suggestions?
[17:17] <wendar> AlanBell: could Pencil help here? Or, the same collaboration limitations?
[17:19] <MrBadWiki> o/ just saying "hi"
[17:21] <wendar> hi DrDruif, welcome
[17:21] <DrDruif> Thanks
[17:21] <wendar> would you like to introduce yourself?
[17:22] <DrDruif> I'm on a mobile with only touchscreen input, so I'll keep it short
[17:23] <DrDruif> My normal IRC name is MrChrisDruif, I've joined ubuntu beginners about a year ago and more recently I've become active again with ubuntu tv and tablet
[17:24] <DrDruif> AlanBell already knows me as well as a few others
[17:25] <DrDruif> I've got no history in graphics or design, but I'd like to learn about it.
[17:25] <DrDruif> That's it for now =)
[17:25] <wendar> very cool, glad you could join :)
[17:26]  * DrDruif celebrates the joys of modern technology =)
[17:27] <wendar> AlanBell: I'm thinking we're going to end up using google docs for now.
[17:28] <Omega> Hello!
[17:28] <DrDruif> For text files? (I've missed a part of the meeting)
[17:28] <DrDruif> Hi Omega
[17:29] <Omega> I'm Omega, I've been using Ubuntu for a while, I've no background in graphics nor design either! What I am interested in is the thought that goes after design :)
[17:29] <DrDruif> Etherpad also works pretty well for text files and multi person editing
[17:29] <Omega> s/after/behind
[17:30] <DrDruif> You can even see who changed what
[17:30] <wendar> DrDruif: for images, particularly for marking up screenshots of an app to highlight areas for design improvements
[17:30] <DrDruif> Alright
[17:30] <wendar> DrDruif: Etherpad for images would be awesome :)
[17:31] <mhall119> doctormon was working on some ideas for that
[17:32] <DrDruif> Indeed, but if everyone just wished it would be available/useable in etherpad, then nobody will do it. The devs of etherpad should know about it
[17:33] <DrDruif> Good to hear about doctormon is doing something about it =)
[17:33] <mhall119> the devs of etherpad work for Google now, doing something else.  Maybe the Etherpad Lite folks though
[17:35] <DrDruif> And the code from google wave? Is that any useable?
[17:35] <wendar> mhall119: that's true, doctormon mentioned it last week (was looking for a link), I'll check in with him and see if it's usable yet
[17:35] <wendar> mhall119: it may be a "next project we can use this" thing
[17:36] <wendar> DrDruif: was that code ever open sourced?
[17:37] <DrDruif> It's free to download, but only for a limited time. They've abandoned the project
[17:37] <DrDruif> And they'll want to remove it from their servers
[17:39] <DrDruif> I didn't party any notice to it, because it was to no use for me (not a dev as well)
[17:39] <DrDruif> Party is pay
[17:39] <mainerror> Did I miss the meeting?
[17:40] <DrDruif> And I hope it's still available
[17:40] <DrDruif> Still going mainerror
[17:40] <mainerror> Great.
[17:41] <DrDruif> I'll look it up when I'm back home if there is any interest
[17:41] <wendar> DrDruif: interesting, did they release the code with the idea that someone else might pick it up and maintain it?
[17:42] <DrDruif> I'd have to look it up
[17:42] <wendar> DrDruif: oooh, look http://incubator.apache.org/wave/
[17:43] <wendar> So, they handed it over to Apache
[17:43] <DrDruif> If you say so, I'd have to look it up
[17:44] <wendar> I just ran across it from http://code.google.com/apis/wave/
[17:44] <wendar> mainerror: so, we're talking about what tools to use for 4digits
[17:45] <mainerror> Yup. Just read the transcript.
[17:46] <wendar> I'm still thinking we're going to end up on google docs for now, so we're not blocking the tiny project on tools.
[17:46] <DrDruif> Agreed
[17:46] <mhall119> +1
[17:47] <wendar> I'd be happier with open tools, but we're working on those at the same time, and will have them for later projects.
[17:47] <mainerror> +1
[17:48] <mainerror> We can use the Drawing function.
[17:49] <wendar> mainerror: ah, trying it out now...
[17:49] <wendar> yeah, looks workable
[17:49] <mainerror> https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1rSPWpmu6L6APUUzsxL2OySNmCbabF3QXRVOnZTNf-s4/edit
[17:49] <mainerror> This is an example.
[17:50] <mainerror> People can now join my session with this link and participate.
[17:51] <mainerror> At least I hope they can.
[17:51] <mainerror> Can anyone confirm it?
[17:52] <DrDruif> Maybe later
[17:53] <mainerror> Oh yea, to edit it you have to be logged in with the current settings.
[17:54] <wendar> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fkV98vNooG8y8BlAeZ5WAL-5tT-57FpC2MD8qI0tS94/edit?hl=en_US
[17:54] <mainerror> Now everyone can edit it.
[17:54] <wendar> yah, zigactly, lovely
[17:55] <DrDruif> =)
[17:55] <wendar> and, the drawings can be tied together in a text document, so you can walk through the app in sections
[17:55] <wendar> with some description between
[17:56]  * DrDruif is on sake
[17:56] <mainerror> So until we have our own tool I think this is a good option.
[17:57] <mainerror> Alright. What is next on the agenda?
[17:58] <wendar> yup, I'm getting real-time updates as we edit
[17:59] <wendar> mainerror: someone mentioned this week that they were interested in participating, but weren't sure what tasks were on offer
[18:00] <wendar> I think it'd be useful to start collecting together "ways you can get involved in design with Ubuntu"
[18:01] <wendar> we have the two projects, a little game, and moving forward tools
[18:01] <wendar> but, that's just what's new
[18:02] <wendar> there's icons for projects, teams, and websites
[18:02] <wendar> there's the tv/tablet/phone projects
[18:02] <wendar> and lots of other pieces volunteer designers have already been doing
[18:03] <DrDruif> That's where I'm focusing attention
[18:04] <DrDruif> Tv and phone that is
[18:04] <mainerror> For that problem I would like to propose the use of https://trello.com/
[18:05] <mainerror> The Community team is trying it out as well.
[18:05] <DrDruif> Trello?
[18:05] <wendar> looks cool, is it open source?
[18:06] <mainerror> Uhm, I'm not quite sure if it is to be honest.
[18:06] <wendar> doesn't look like it, too bad
[18:07] <mainerror> https://trello.com/board/community-team/4e6febfb247e35000000aab1
[18:07] <wendar> but, again, use what you've got, build something better :)
[18:07] <mainerror> This is the community team trello board.
[18:08] <mainerror> The problem is that right now I couldn't tell what someone could work on.
[18:09] <mainerror> We need something where people always know whats going on.
[18:09] <wendar> you can't tell from the community team's trello board?
[18:09] <wendar> or, you can't tell from the design side, and it's easier with the trello board?
[18:09] <mainerror> I'm talking about us right now.
[18:09] <mainerror> You can tell from the community trello board.
[18:09] <wendar> agreed, right  now it's tough to find a design task to pick up
[18:10] <wendar> I'd be happy to try out trello
[18:10] <mainerror> I mean we could also make use of the harvest site.
[18:10] <mainerror> Was it called like that? I'm not sure.
[18:10] <wendar> you mean http://harvest.ubuntu.com/?
[18:11] <mainerror> Yup, that's the site.
[18:11] <wendar> like, add a "design" tab at http://harvest.ubuntu.com/opportunities/
[18:12] <mainerror> Yea, that'd be an option I guess.
[18:12] <wendar> looks like it's organized by package
[18:12] <wendar> we have more freeflowing tasks
[18:12] <DrDruif> Opportunities? I'm interested
[18:14] <wendar> DrDruif: it's a site that helps people find bugs to work on
[18:14] <mainerror> Well the harvest site should be open source I guess. We could investigate on that and find out if we could use it for us. Self-hosted and modified.
[18:14] <wendar> mainerror: yes, that's a good tool to follow up on
[18:14] <wendar> also, ubuntu brainstorm
[18:15] <mainerror> Indeed although UB would need a heavy redesign if you ask me. Not that it'd stop us from using but still.
[18:16] <wendar> contributing design work to existing tools is certainly in scope for the group
[18:16] <wendar> it's a collaborative thing
[18:16] <DrDruif> I'm dining of. I'm at a dinner (japanese)
[18:17] <wendar> brainstorm is more "post a design problem, and post alternative solutions, then get review and feedback on the solutions"
[18:17] <wendar> but, it's very text oriented at the moment
[18:17] <wendar> still, potential, down the road
[18:18] <wendar> jono (if you're listening): have you been using trello? any thoughts on how well it works?
[18:19] <mainerror> Oh I actually meant a redesign of its UI. Get rid of some clutter, get it in line with the official Ubuntu webdesign guidelines.
[18:20] <wendar> that's in scope too, if the maintainers are amenable to collaborating on it
[18:20]  * mainerror nods
[18:20] <wendar> I know nuthinking has been trying to get in touch with the brainstorm maintainers
[18:21] <wendar> (to volunteer some design time)
[18:21] <nuthinking> wendar: I am leaving the office
[18:21] <nuthinking> wendar: but
[18:21] <nuthinking> wendar: I can tell you that while there should be resources to update its look and feel
[18:22] <nuthinking> wendar: there aren't resources to improve its functionalities
[18:22] <nuthinking> wendar: do you need any other information before I leave? :)
[18:22] <mainerror> Well I'd be happy with the look and feel improvements already.
[18:22] <wendar> nuthinking: that's great, thanks!
[18:22] <nuthinking> ok, I go home then! ;) Bye everyone!
[18:23] <mainerror> Bye.
[18:23] <wendar> yeah, the functionality is useful now
[18:23] <jono> wendar, I haven't used it much, but Jorge has :-)
[18:23] <jono> he seems to like it
[18:23] <mainerror> Oh yea, if you guys want an invite in the Ubuntu Design Trello team, please send me your email address.
[18:25] <wendar> mainerror: I was just going to ask if you'd created one already :)
[18:25] <wendar> mainerror: sure, I'll join and try it out
[18:27] <wendar> Any other topics for this week?
[18:27] <mainerror> Not from my part.
[18:27] <mainerror> I just wanted to tell you about Trello. :)
[18:28] <wendar> :)
[18:28] <wendar> cool, thanks everybody!
[18:28] <wendar> #endmeeting
[18:28] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Dec  7 18:28:23 2011 UTC.
[18:28] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-design/2011/ubuntu-design.2011-12-07-17.05.moin.txt
[18:29] <mainerror> Oh yea. The screenshot in the Google Drawing doc is for this bug report.
[18:29] <mainerror> 891804
[18:29] <mainerror> bug 891804
[18:29] <webbugs> Launchpad bug 891804 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Software Center wastes space" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/891804
[21:31] <MrChrisDruif> Hi everyone
[21:32] <MrChrisDruif> wendar, did
[21:32] <mainerror> Hello.
[21:33] <MrChrisDruif> I miss much after I left?
[21:33] <wendar> hi
[21:33] <MrChrisDruif> mainerror, hi
[21:33] <wendar> MrChrisDruif: nope
[21:33] <wendar> we talked a bit more about brainstorm
[21:34] <MrChrisDruif> Brainstorm.ubuntu.com ?
[21:34] <wendar> yup, mainly just about "updating" the design to go with the other ubuntu sites
[21:35] <MrChrisDruif> Alright
[21:35] <wendar> and jasox and I are going to start collecting screenshots of 4digits
[21:35] <MrChrisDruif> Did we go into the theme of moinmoin on wiki and help?
[21:35] <wendar> nope, didn't go into that
[21:36] <wendar> did you have a question/idea there?
[21:36] <MrChrisDruif> What is 4digits actually? ^_^
[21:36] <MrChrisDruif> I didn't check the website tbh
[21:36] <MrChrisDruif> I'll check it later
[21:37] <MrChrisDruif> Well, two things actually
[21:39] <MrChrisDruif> The new theme recently added lines above every header, which can be added manually. I think it's *not* a god idea to force it with every header
[21:40] <MrChrisDruif> And when is ubuntu planning on changing the theme on help?
[21:41] <MrChrisDruif> I think the new theme is ready for prime time on help
[21:46] <MrChrisDruif> ?
[21:48] <MrChrisDruif> I'll be back in a bit. Mobile internet probably isn't responding and need to ride my bike
[21:48] <mainerror> You mean the login header?
[22:04] <MrChrisDruif> Good evening
[22:34] <MrChrisDruif> Was every message I send received here?
[22:34] <MrChrisDruif> About my ideas about the moinmoin theme?
[22:35] <mhall119> MrChrisDruif: yes
[22:36] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, I wasn't getting any response, but I'm blaming that on my mobile/carrier network
[22:36] <mhall119> I think there just wasn't anybody around to respond
[22:37] <MrChrisDruif> wendar was around at the time I think
[22:37] <MrChrisDruif> Btw, I'm finally home =)
[22:38] <mhall119> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/12/07/%23ubuntu-design.html#t21:35
[22:40] <MrChrisDruif> Haha, mainerror responded just after I left =)
[22:42] <MrChrisDruif> mainerror; no I didn't mean the login header (single sign-on thing you meant right?) I'm talking about the actually wiki pages. You can have different "headers" or what their name might be
[22:42] <MrChrisDruif> That are those == Title 2 == things etc...
[22:54] <MrChrisDruif> ??
[22:57] <MrChrisDruif> Nobody?