[16:01]  * slangasek waves
[16:03]  * stgraber waves
[16:04] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Dec  7 16:04:08 2011 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[16:04] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:04] <jodh> o/
[16:04] <slangasek> oh right... you're making me change my shuf command to cope with a new /nick, hmph :)
[16:05] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek)
[16:05] <jodh> slangasek: soz ;)
[16:05] <slangasek> cjwatson jodh stgraber bdmurray ev slangasek doko barry
[16:05] <slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
[16:05] <cjwatson> Fixed d-i explosion due to libselinux change (bug 899049).
[16:06] <cjwatson> Spent more or less the entire rest of the week working on germinate 2.0 and corresponding Launchpad changes.  Worked through an extremely detailed review from jtv today (https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/refactor-cron-germinate/+merge/84624) and this is now approved and ready to go, which I'm fairly sure will result in 30-minute publisher runs; I just need to continue poking IS until I get some attention ...
[16:06] <cjwatson> ... paid to the relevant ticket.
[16:06] <cjwatson> Little bits of help with armhf.
[16:06] <cjwatson> ..
[16:06] <jodh> New nick (hopefully unique :) Raised MP for lucid for bug 771372.
[16:06] <jodh> Finished Upstart job logging code for system jobs and posted to
[16:06] <jodh> upstart-devel mailing list for review. After meeting with
[16:06] <jodh> slangasek+cjwaton, we have identified the best strategy for logging of
[16:06] <jodh> user job output (in progress). Re-reviewed setuid/setgid Upstart patch
[16:06] <jodh> which should be ready to merge by COB Friday along with the system job
[16:06] <jodh> logging code. Currently re-reviewing "usage" stanza patch. Wrote a menu script
[16:06] <jodh> (http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/upstart/utils/upstart_menu.sh,
[16:06] <jodh> http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/upstart/utils/upstart_menu.png) to
[16:06] <jodh> allow selection of particular Upstart binary under test. This speeds up
[16:06] <jodh> my dev process, and could potentially be used by QA (and maybe even
[16:06] <jodh> friendly-recovery). It also shows just how quick Upstart gets from
[16:06] <jodh> "startup" to lightdm" (since by the time the menu is displayed,
[16:06] <jodh> bios+kernel+initramfs is of course already loaded). Upstreamed a couple
[16:06] <jodh> of man page changes that hopefully clarify system behaviour.  Upstart
[16:06] <jodh> cookbook updates. On holiday tomorrow. Plan: Upstart merges, bug 553745.
[16:06] <jodh> §
[16:07] <stgraber> oh, nice (upstart-menu)
[16:07] <stgraber> - ISO testing
[16:07] <stgraber>  - Finishing the API, got results API published yesterday
[16:07] <stgraber>  - Most new features turned on (multiple results per user, hardware profile, accessing archived results, viewing removed results/builds, ...)
[16:07] <stgraber>  - Still preparing the upgrade of the production server (waiting on IS)
[16:07] <stgraber> - Edubuntu
[16:07] <stgraber>  - Going to setup automated upgrade testing outside of Canonical DC for the flavours (spare time activity)
[16:07] <stgraber> - Networking
[16:07] <stgraber>  - Going to upload a new ifenslave today, thanks everyone for your feedback on the changes
[16:07] <stgraber>  - Then working on bridge-utils and vlan, hopefully also updated this week
[16:07] <stgraber>  - After a few weeks, looking at pushing at least the ifenslave change to other supported release
[16:07] <stgraber> - TODO
[16:08] <stgraber>  - Look at the new ifupdown in Debian (beta2), isolate the fix for bug 876829 and SRU to Oneiric
[16:08] <stgraber>  - Start poking at resolvconf
[16:08] <stgraber>  - Talk with cyphermox now that he's out of +1 :) (IPv6, complex networking in NM, dnsmasq, VPN stuff, ...)
[16:08] <stgraber>  - Still need to get my iSCSI test setup online again and then look at the merge...
[16:08] <stgraber> ..
[16:09] <cyphermox> on that subject: I've been working on ipv6 privext patches for NM, almost done.
[16:09] <stgraber> cyphermox: cool!
[16:09] <stgraber> cyphermox: did you file a bug for that sysfs weirdness?
[16:09] <cyphermox> (and it turns out somebody else was also working on this for Redhat too)
[16:10] <cyphermox> not a bug, but sent an email to linux-netdev, no response yet
[16:10] <stgraber> cool, thanks!
[16:10] <bdmurray> bug triage of iso-testing bug reports
[16:10] <bdmurray> discussion with mvo regarding changelogs.ubuntu.com and meta release files
[16:10] <bdmurray> modification to cbd (collect bug data)  part of arsenal to check date_last_updated of bug tasks
[16:10] <bdmurray> modification to cbd to use searchTasks's modified_since parameter
[16:10] <bdmurray> wrote release notes regarding bug 891711 (downgrade option in ubiquity)
[16:10] <bdmurray> review of bug bot work
[16:10] <bdmurray> testing d3 graphing tool with recent package bugs
[16:10] <bdmurray> ubiquity bug triage (primarily bugs due to memory issues when installing)
[16:10] <bdmurray> bug pattern writing for bug 894768, bug 850264 and bug 882147
[16:10] <bdmurray> updated firefox-lp-improvements for precise
[16:11] <slangasek> jodh: "just how quick" *does* it get from startup to lightdm?  Do your numbers that way line up with the holistic boot speed tests?
[16:11] <stgraber> (for the record, the bug is that changing something in /proc/sys/net/*/conf/all doesn't apply to all the interfaces, so a bit annoying when we want to change a flag)
[16:11] <bdmurray> jodh: I was looking at bug 849414 for more information yesterday and didn't find any debug log files attached to duplicates
[16:11] <jodh> slangasek: rough figure is ~2.5 seconds (in a VM admittedly :)
[16:12] <slangasek> not too shabby
[16:12] <jodh> bdmurray: yes, I know. the problem is is seems to be timing related and if you enable debug, you don't see the problem.
[16:12] <jodh> bdmurray: s/is is/is it/
[16:13] <bdmurray> actually when I looked at all plymouth bugs there were only 2 debug log files and they were from you ;-)
[16:13] <jodh> bdmurray: :) they were gleaned through a bit of trickery too :)
[16:13] <slangasek> stgraber: /proc/sys/net/*/conf/all - this has plagued me for years, and causes me to have to manually start radvd on my Debian armel gateway after boot... very annoying :P
[16:13] <slangasek> hmm, no ev on channel
[16:14] <slangasek> guess that means it's my turn
[16:15] <slangasek> jodh, bdmurray: I don't think it's just a timing thing with the debug logs, I think part of it is that the problem is not 100% reproducible to begin with
[16:15] <slangasek>  * slogging through email after returning from vacation
[16:15] <slangasek>  * helped run an Ubuntu Local Jam here last weekend, tackling multiarch libraries for ia32-libs: http://web.dodds.net/~vorlon/wiki/blog/Making_jam_from_bugs/
[16:15] <slangasek>  * shepherded these fixes into precise
[16:15] <slangasek>  * merged Ubuntu armhf ld.so support into Debian eglibc
[16:15] <slangasek>  * TODO this week:
[16:15] <slangasek>   * looking at multiarch for gstreamer
[16:15] <slangasek>   * looking at various improvements to resolvconf that are in the wild to get them integrated for precise
[16:15] <slangasek> ..
[16:16] <doko> - a mostly ARM week
[16:16] <doko> - fix packages to build on armhf, that do build on armel
[16:16] <doko> - openjdk updates and running zero and jamvm tests
[16:16] <doko> - fix build failures in main for armhf
[16:16] <doko> - fix build failures in package sets for armhf
[16:16] <doko> - look at libreoffice armhf port, won't continue myself, bug #900636
[16:16] <doko> - linaro gcc 4.5 and 4.6 merges
[16:16] <doko> - gcc cross merges from Marcin
[16:16] <doko> - prepare gdc for armhf
[16:16] <doko> - start cross-building gnat for armhf
[16:16] <doko> - llvm-3.0 and dragonegg updates
[16:16] <doko> - MIR's, syncs, merges
[16:16] <doko> - stop looking at eglibc-2.15 for now
[16:16] <doko> ..
[16:17] <barry> more python-dbus porting to python3.  after initial branch discussion with scott mcvittie, and review of https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26420&action=View i reworked my port so that object-paths, signatures, etc. are unicodes instead of bytes.  this made it much easier to pass the existing test suite because the callback dispatching code didn't need to be rewritten to handle byte slicing and comparisons.  new branch pushed
[16:17] <barry> to lp and patch submitted to the above tracker issue.  i've already gotten one bug report from arch linux :).  spent some time reporting and debugging https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43303 without success.  todo: package this version up into a ppa, advertise it a bit more, and start to port an app (probably c-j).  along the way, i had to fix python issue 11147 http://bugs.python.org/issue11147.  i was patch pilot yesterday.
[16:17] <barry> reviewed a webified version of my dh_python2 tutorial: http://www.rowinggolfer.org/tutorials/packaging/dh_python2_tutorial.html.  also if you're interested, i am writing a chapter on mailman3 for the next edition of the aosa book: http://www.aosabook.org/en/index.html.  done.
[16:17] <jodh> slangasek: right. I have a script which attempts to force it (http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/plymouth/test_plymouth.sh), but that's "post boot" of course.
[16:17] <slangasek> and it looks like armhf now has main fully built, aside from libreoffice \o/
[16:18] <cjwatson> oh, well done on python3-dbus
[16:18] <barry> cjwatson: thanks!  hopefully this will pass upstream's muster
[16:19] <barry> lots of great lessons learned to, which i'll blog about soon
[16:19] <barry> s/to/too/
[16:21] <slangasek> thanks all
[16:21] <slangasek> any more questions for each other on this week's activity?
[16:22] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[16:23] <slangasek> bdmurray: what bugs do we need to fix?
[16:23] <bdmurray> There have been a few pm-utils assigned to us recently, but you've seen at least one of them
[16:24] <slangasek> I saw three, I've triaged two of them so far
[16:25] <bdmurray> and then in bug 766265 there is some question, from the reporter, as to whether not it should still be fixed
[16:25] <slangasek> the third one looks like it's a spelling bug... not going to the top of my urgency list :)
[16:25] <bdmurray> comment #25 and comment #27
[16:26] <bdmurray> slangasek: yes, three is all I see
[16:27] <cjwatson> although I know Erick thinks he wants my input, it seems like a design issue rather than something I can usefully weigh in on
[16:27] <bdmurray> so should mpt be consulted?
[16:27] <cjwatson> wait
[16:28] <cjwatson> is it just a matter of whether the button should change to "Install Now"?
[16:28] <cjwatson> sorry, the bug is kind of long
[16:28] <cjwatson> but looking at comment #15 and wondering if that would be enough
[16:28] <cjwatson> if it's more than that mpt would need to have a look
[16:29] <cjwatson> but if it's just that, I can probably fix it
[16:30] <bdmurray> Okay, I'll follow up with Erick
[16:31] <cjwatson> comment #19 from Erick suggests that
[16:31] <cjwatson> so possibly no need
[16:31] <cjwatson> I just wish this were less verbose :-)
[16:31] <cjwatson> and less raising of side issues mid-bug
[16:32] <bdmurray> having a bug be too verbose is an interesting problem to have
[16:32] <bdmurray> as opposed to "fix it"
[16:32] <barry> bdmurray: +1
[16:32] <bdmurray> or "I don't know"
[16:33] <slangasek> I usually find the too-verbose bugs more frustrating ;)
[16:33] <cjwatson> true, but there's a threshold beyond which I stop being able to focus
[16:33] <bdmurray> okay moving on ;-)  bug 898787
[16:34] <cjwatson> yeah, saw that in my inbox, but haven't dug in yet - see above comments about being in a cave hacking on LP all week :)
[16:34] <cjwatson> in general that sort of vaguely means "the current system is inconsistent, I have no idea what to do"
[16:35] <cjwatson> but no idea how that would happen on install, even if it is over the top of an existing one
[16:36] <cjwatson> I don't suppose somebody else could look at that, since I'm on holiday for the rest of the week?
[16:36] <slangasek> stgraber: ^^ could you look at this?
[16:37] <slangasek> bdmurray: there are 6 duplicates; does that tell us anything about how frequent the problem is?
[16:37] <cjwatson> hmm
[16:37] <bdmurray> slangasek: those were manually marked so it might not
[16:37] <cjwatson> were there any language pack updates recently?
[16:37] <slangasek> ok
[16:37] <stgraber> yep, I can have a look
[16:37] <slangasek> cjwatson: there were, and there was some breakage on the first go
[16:37] <cjwatson> I vaguely recall something about -base not being promoted to -updates
[16:37] <bdmurray> slangasek: I'll look after the meeting
[16:37] <slangasek> yes
[16:38] <cjwatson> that would probably cause this, although it would be nice if that didn't cause stable installs to crash ...
[16:38] <cjwatson> so quite possibly dormant but should be fixed for robustness
[16:38] <ScottK> cjwatson: I hit the regression panic alarm about it a few days ago.
[16:38] <cjwatson> stgraber: thanks
[16:39] <cjwatson> ScottK: I think that's what I saw.  pitti seemed to be on top of it by the time I noticed though.
[16:39] <cjwatson> 2011-12-01, sounds about the right kind of time
[16:39] <ScottK> Yes.  He was.
[16:39] <ScottK> I don't know if anyone did a comprehensive check to see if any others than the one I hit got missed.
[16:40] <slangasek> the latest duplicate is dated 2011-12-05
[16:40] <slangasek> which is certainly after ScottK/pitti worked on it
[16:41] <ScottK> Yep
[16:41] <cjwatson> Unless out of date mirrors were involved
[16:41] <slangasek> otoh, the reports include locale data
[16:41] <cjwatson> (But sure, it could be something else)
[16:41] <slangasek> heh, true
[16:42] <slangasek> language-pack-gnome-sv-base | 1:11.10+20111025 | oneiric-proposed | source, all
[16:42] <slangasek> missing from -updates
[16:42] <slangasek> (bug #900571)
[16:42] <slangasek> cjwatson: so apparently we don't have a systematic check for these; any idea how we can fix that?
[16:43] <cjwatson> it probably ought to be an alarm in the pending SRU report
[16:43] <cjwatson> maybe we can run britney over oneiric-updates too
[16:43] <cjwatson> well, oneiric+oneiric-updates
[16:43] <slangasek> cjwatson: do you want to take the action on that?
[16:43] <cjwatson> yeah, why not
[16:44] <slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to look at running britney over $release+$release-updates, to catch inconsistencies caused by incomplete SRU publication
[16:44] <meetingology> ACTION: cjwatson to look at running britney over $release+$release-updates, to catch inconsistencies caused by incomplete SRU publication
[16:44] <slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
[16:45] <bdmurray> that's it from me then
[16:46] <slangasek> ok, thanks
[16:48] <cjwatson> psusi has filed an MP with ureadahead performance improvements - could somebody have a look at it?
[16:49] <cjwatson> (sorry, don't seem to have the URL to hand, but it should be easy to find)
[16:50] <barry> i think this is it: https://code.launchpad.net/~psusi/ubuntu/precise/ureadahead/faster/+merge/84556
[16:51] <cjwatson> ta
[16:51] <barry> looks like luke is looking into it
[16:51] <slangasek> didn't he say on IRC that he was punting on it and wanted someone else to look?
[16:51] <cjwatson> OK, though I don't know if he was just patch-piloting
[16:51] <barry> (or maybe psusi is, the comment is ambiguous ;)
[16:51] <slangasek> he was patch-piloting
[16:52] <slangasek> I would look at the ureadahead branch but can't promise to get to it... so if someone else wants to volunteer... :)
[16:52] <jodh> slangasek: I can have a look. What's the urgency on this?
[16:52] <slangasek> jodh: not particularly high AFAIK
[16:53] <slangasek> jodh: and thanks :)
[16:53] <jodh> slangasek: works for me then :D
[16:53] <slangasek> one other thing on bugs
[16:53] <slangasek> [LINK] http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
[16:54] <slangasek> I challenged you guys a while ago to get this list down by the end of the year
[16:54] <slangasek> well, two bugs have been fixed - good work!
[16:54] <slangasek> and two more have taken their place ;)
[16:54] <slangasek> I think I'm going to start doling out the bugs to assignees so we make some headway
[16:55] <slangasek> so if there's a bug you'd like to work on from that list, go ahead and claim it or you might get assigned another one :-)
[16:55] <cjwatson> yow
[16:55] <cjwatson> guess I'd better start hitting mine in earnest next week
[16:55] <cjwatson> sorry
[16:55] <slangasek> I've taken bug #874774 for myself... which is cheating, a community member has triaged it and provided a patch ;)
[16:56] <slangasek> cjwatson: there are lots of other demands on people's time of course, I just don't want us to lose sight of these bugs
[16:56] <slangasek> which in theory are some of the highest-impact persistent ones
[16:57] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:57] <slangasek> anything else?
[16:58] <slangasek> sounds like a 'no
[16:58] <slangasek> '
[16:58] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:58] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Dec  7 16:58:18 2011 UTC.
[16:58] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-07-16.04.moin.txt
[16:58] <doko> I'd like to start with the libjpeg-turbo uploads
[16:58] <slangasek> thanks, all!
[16:58] <stgraber> thanks!
[16:58] <barry> thanks!
[16:58] <doko> assuming that the archive is in a good state
[16:59] <slangasek> doko: #ubuntu-devel?
[16:59] <doko> ok
[16:59] <jodh> cheers
[17:00]  * charlie-tca waves at QA people
[17:00] <gema> hi charlie!
[17:00] <gema> we are starting!
[17:00] <charlie-tca> I made it?
[17:00] <gema> indeed :)
[17:00] <gema> #startmeeting QA Meeting
[17:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Dec  7 17:00:45 2011 UTC.  The chair is gema. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[17:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:00]  * kamusin :)
[17:01] <gema> hello everyone, who's present for the QA meeting?
[17:01] <brendand> hi
[17:01] <charlie-tca> o/
[17:01] <roadmr> hello!
[17:01]  * kamusin o/
[17:01] <gema> let's summon some others hggdh jibel_ nuclearbob patrickmw , are you guys there?
[17:02] <nuclearbob> yep
[17:02] <patrickmw> sure am
[17:02] <gema> ok, let's get started
[17:02] <gema> #topic Previous Actions
[17:02] <gema> ACTION: gema to add lubuntu and Xubuntu testing updates to the agenda (gema, 17:08:59)
[17:03] <gema> I did that , we are discussing those , you can check the agenda in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[17:03] <gema> we can move them around if that's preferred
[17:03] <gema> ACTION: patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins (gema, 17:16:20)
[17:03] <patrickmw> in progress
[17:03] <gema> ok, so we'll keep it there for next week
[17:04] <gema> #action patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins
[17:04] <meetingology> ACTION: patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins
[17:04] <gema> #topic Blueprints Update Precise
[17:04] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-builds-smoke-testing
[17:04] <gema> ok, any updates on this, anyone?
[17:05] <kalosaurusrex> hello Aaron here
[17:05] <gema> hi kalosaurusrex , go ahead
[17:06] <gema> kalosaurusrex: do you want to give us an update?
[17:07] <kalosaurusrex> I don't have an update exactly.  but is there someone who checks the builds daily anyway?  I was thinking about setting up a script that would pull down the daily and I could do a quick check as we add to the smoke test etc
[17:07] <gema> kalosaurusrex: we are doing that in jenkins, let me paste a link to it
[17:07] <gema> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20Daily%20ISOs/
[17:08] <gema> you can see there whether our basic install and little more testing passed or not
[17:08] <kalosaurusrex> awesome thanks!
[17:08] <gema> patrick will be publishing the list of launchpad projects that have the code we are running
[17:09] <charlie-tca> o/
[17:09] <gema> I don't think there's any update from us either, except that patrick and myself are trying to get jenkins to show the results in a nicer fashion
[17:09] <gema> charlie-tca: go ahead
[17:09] <charlie-tca> I am not sure, but it looks to me like a run on jenkins 9 hours ago was yesterday's images, or am reading times wrong?
[17:10]  * alourie just barely made it
[17:10] <gema> charlie-tca: if I count well, 9 hours ago are 8am london time
[17:10] <charlie-tca> So it is me?
[17:10] <gema> charlie-tca: that is the usual time by when the new images are ready and jenkins starts automagically
[17:11] <charlie-tca> Okay. Then I got confused again on times
[17:11] <gema> charlie-tca: no probs
[17:11] <gema> alourie: welcome
[17:12] <gema> ok, other thing we are doing is trying to put together a bug report that shows which defects we've found on these executions
[17:12] <gema> nuclearbob and I are working on that one too
[17:12] <gema> we'll let you know when it is ready
[17:12] <gema> moving on to the next topic then
[17:12] <gema> #subtopic #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-boot-speed-testing
[17:12] <gema> patrickmw ?
[17:12] <patrickmw> * New info available on reports: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/boot-speed/dell-vostro-3400/index.html
[17:12] <patrickmw> * Still need to add Lucid benchmark to all systems
[17:12] <patrickmw> * Adding more systems over the next few months
[17:12] <patrickmw> ..
[17:13] <gema> good, thanks
[17:13] <gema> if anyone has questions please interrupt me, I won't be asking explicitely
[17:13] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-kernel-sru
[17:13] <gema> sconklin ?
[17:14] <sconklin> I've been doing two main tasks.
[17:15] <sconklin> The first is an initial look at some performance tests that may be useful for measuring kernels for uses like Ubuntu Studio and other critical audio and video apps
[17:15] <sconklin> Nothing conclusive has come out of that yet
[17:15] <sconklin> The second is take perform  a comprehensive look at LTP (Linus Test Project)
[17:15] <sconklin> and determine what we should be running out of that test suite that we are not already running
[17:16] <sconklin> as well as getting a better handle on our management of that test suite as part of our automated testing
[17:16] <sconklin> That's about it.
[17:16] <sconklin> ..
[17:16] <gema> cool, thanks a lot
[17:16] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-standard-sru-testing
[17:16] <gema> jibel_: ?
[17:17] <gema> I don't think he is around, so let's move on
[17:17] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-test-case-management-tool
[17:17] <gema> I had a conversation with the mozilla guys and they seem to be moving away from litmus and are developing a new tool, called CaseConductor that seems to be improving litmus
[17:17] <gema> we are considering to go for that one, especially because they are finishing development now and are willing to accommodate our requirements. I am in the process of gathering those to be able to talk to them
[17:18] <gema> So we may have to do some beta testing of their tool in exchange, whenever they are at that stage, in January
[17:18] <gema> for the time being, it would be good if we used for our work of improving existing test cases, just spreadsheets, find a template at the bottom of the test case page
[17:18] <gema> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/TestCase
[17:18] <gema> ..
[17:19] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-backlog
[17:19] <gema> does anyone have an update on backlog tasks?
[17:19] <gema> or wiki improvements or similar?
[17:19] <alourie> o/
[17:19] <gema> alourie: go ahead
[17:19] <alourie> alright
[17:19] <alourie> so, we've started working on 7 items list
[17:20] <gema> yep, brendand named it Wiki x)
[17:20] <gema> (he didn't like my numbers, they are impersonal)
[17:20] <alourie> :-)
[17:20] <alourie> personally, I'm not sure that wiki itself should update much
[17:20] <alourie> but qa.ubuntu.com may
[17:20] <brendand> gema - you're welcome ;)
[17:21] <alourie> brendand: you should send the list with names :-)
[17:21] <gema> ok, alourie , this is the wiki we are talking about right: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
[17:21] <alourie> yes
[17:22] <alourie> it's quite up to date, maybe couple of things should be updated
[17:22] <gema> I think it doesnt' really reflect what we are doing, does it?
[17:22] <alourie> but the qa.u.c site seems to be abandoned
[17:22] <alourie> well
[17:22] <alourie> gema, why not?
[17:23] <gema> alourie: because it seems to talk about bugsquad tasks which we are not necessarily focussing on
[17:23] <gema> and it doesn't touch on the changes we are working on
[17:23] <gema> what we are trying to achieve
[17:23] <gema> I don't think we are doing good PR with that page
[17:23] <gema> if you know what I mean
[17:24] <gema> we are not inviting many people to help :D
[17:24] <alourie> gema: oh, so you want to split it, so QATeam would specifically be concentrated on testing?
[17:24] <alourie> ^^
[17:24] <gema> yep, that's what we've done already with the meeting and stuff
[17:24] <gema> it is good to have a link to the bugsquad page
[17:24] <gema> but we need to be clear on what our objectives are
[17:24] <gema> which we are not
[17:24] <alourie> ah, ok, got you
[17:24] <alourie> agreed
[17:25] <gema> so, I haven't had time to think about this
[17:25] <gema> nor our tasks page is linked
[17:25] <gema> or the active members are mentioned
[17:25] <charlie-tca> Wouldn't it be better to rename the teams, QA testing and QA bugsquad?
[17:25] <gema> but this needs some thinking
[17:25] <alourie> charles: that would be a bit misleading I think
[17:25] <gema> the bugsquad is already the bugsquad, they have a name
[17:25] <brendand> BugSquad should be just that
[17:26] <alourie> brendand: +1
[17:26] <gema> the problem is that we seem to imply we are doing the same thins
[17:26] <gema> things
[17:26] <charlie-tca> but both teams are what QA is
[17:26] <gema> no, bug triaging is one thing
[17:26] <gema> QA is another thing
[17:26] <gema> both important
[17:26] <gema> but different
[17:26]  * brendand agrees
[17:26] <alourie> gema: wait a sec
[17:26]  * kalosaurusrex agrees
[17:26] <alourie> you mean that QA and BugSquad would split totally?
[17:26] <gema> alourie: I think we have split totally
[17:26] <charlie-tca> So, QA is only TESTING, it has no other functions?
[17:27] <alourie> ahh
[17:27] <gema> we have bdmurray helping us with our bug classification problems
[17:27] <alourie> I haven't thought about it like that
[17:27] <gema> etc
[17:27] <gema> so we collaborate
[17:27]  * alourie agrees
[17:27] <gema> charlie-tca: QA is about ensuring the quality of the OS
[17:27] <alourie> now I get it
[17:27] <gema> not just testing
[17:27] <gema> there is more to it than just testing
[17:27] <alourie> gema: well, ensuring by means of testing...
[17:27] <alourie> :-)
[17:27] <gema> we may care about counting how many bugs we find, for instance
[17:27] <alourie> ok, I get it now.
[17:27] <gema> but not about triaging them as such
[17:28] <brendand> what kind of bugs we are missing, etc
[17:28] <gema> brendand: +1
[17:28] <alourie> +1
[17:28] <gema> cool, alourie , can you give it a thought on this light
[17:28] <gema> and see what you come up with?
[17:29] <gema> re qa.u.c, I agree, we should be posting more often
[17:29] <alourie> sure.  I think that we need a our "mission statement" to be refreshed
[17:29] <gema> alourie: agreed
[17:29] <alourie> ok, then I'll do that.
[17:29] <gema> charlie-tca: are you happy with this?
[17:29] <txomon> So, is that split documented with all that involves somewhere, or are we deciding it no?
[17:29] <charlie-tca> I am confused than anything else. I will just have to see how it all ends up.
[17:30] <gema> charlie-tca: ok
[17:30] <txomon> s/no/now
[17:30] <gema> txomon: we are trying to document it
[17:30] <brendand> o/
[17:30] <alourie> sorry guys, baby needs to go to sleep, I must leave now. I will read logs later.
[17:30] <gema> txomon: and we will need collaboration with the bugsquad for that
[17:30] <gema> ok alourie
[17:30] <gema> brendand: ?
[17:31] <alourie> gema: great then
[17:31] <brendand> just to say that bug triaging can be considered a bridge between QA and the 'debugging' aspect of development
[17:31] <gema> brendand: noted, we may continue this discussion on the list, we need to keep going
[17:32] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-qa-regression-testing
[17:32] <gema> nuclearbob: ?
[17:32] <nuclearbob> I've got an auotest package now
[17:32] <nuclearbob> I'm getting it into better shape so it'll do al the necessary configuration and support upgrading and removal correctly
[17:32] <nuclearbob> when we get the new hardware in the lab, we can install it and setup some test nodes to run the qrt scripts through autotest
[17:33] <nuclearbob> ..
[17:33] <gema> thanks!
[17:33] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-automated-test-submissions
[17:33] <gema> patrickmw: ?
[17:34] <patrickmw> This is the next priority item for me.  I've started on it since boot speed is coming together
[17:34] <patrickmw> Nothing major to report
[17:34] <gema> cool, thanks
[17:34] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-metrics
[17:35] <gema> nothing to report on this apart from the bug report nuclearbob and I are working on
[17:35] <gema> #subtopic Community Tasks - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/TasksPrecise
[17:35] <gema> anything on the tasks that needs discussing and we haven't touched base on yet?
[17:35] <kalosaurusrex> o/
[17:36] <gema> kalosaurusrex: go ahead
[17:36] <kalosaurusrex> so I have created a list of applications and verified against the manifest. All good there. My question is there set of criteria that we want to start with for applications to test during the smoke test?
[17:37] <gema> kalosaurusrex: what I said in the email is what we have
[17:37] <gema> developers needs need to be covered
[17:37] <gema> and testers needs too
[17:37] <gema> so any app that a dev or a tester would need to do their job needs to be smoke tested
[17:37] <gema> so that we find the problems as early as they are introduced
[17:38] <gema> does that make sense?
[17:38] <kalosaurusrex> Okay makes sense.  I was defiantly going to have a separate test for each.  I guess I was wondering if anyone had anything specific or I can start building a list and email it out for suggestions.
[17:38] <gema> making sure unity is up and running, for instance, with a ps or a top command
[17:38] <gema> all simple things
[17:38] <kalosaurusrex> Okay gotcha :)
[17:39] <gema> ok, thanks for the work you are doing :)
[17:39] <gema> moving on then
[17:39] <gema> #topic Update Xubuntu
[17:39] <gema> charlie-tca: ?
[17:40] <charlie-tca> tested images this week. Today, all Xubuntu 64bit images fail to install
[17:40] <charlie-tca> This appears to be a transmission uninstallable bug
[17:40] <charlie-tca> ..
[17:40] <gema> charlie-tca: thanks
[17:40] <gema> #topic Update Lubuntu
[17:41] <gema> anyone from Lubuntu with an update for us?
[17:41] <gema> ok, next week then
[17:41] <gema> #topic Update Ubuntu
[17:41] <gema> hggdh, jibel_ ?
[17:42] <gema> ok, resting after A1, I guess
[17:42] <gema> #topic Other Topics
[17:42] <gema> anything else anyone?
[17:42] <patrickmw> o/
[17:42] <gema> go for it patrickmw
[17:42] <patrickmw> Thanks to jibel for sharing http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/precise_probs.html
[17:42] <patrickmw> This page gets updated with known Precise stability issues
[17:42] <patrickmw> I created this job: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise/job/precise-problems-check/
[17:42] <patrickmw> The job runs every hour and checks for issues.  If issues are found, the job will fail and send an email to ubuntu-testing-notifications@lists.ubuntu.com
[17:42] <patrickmw> ..
[17:43] <gema> patrickmw: excellent, thanks a lot to you and jibel
[17:43] <gema> anything else?
[17:43] <gema> ok, we are done then
[17:44] <gema> #endmeeting
[17:44] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Dec  7 17:44:00 2011 UTC.
[17:44] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-07-17.00.moin.txt
[17:44] <gema> thanks everyone for coming!
[17:44] <roadmr> thanx!
[17:44] <charlie-tca> gema: thank you for chairing and for your patience
[17:44] <gema> charlie-tca: not a problem, thank you all for your time
[17:45] <nuclearbob> thanks for chaiting
[17:45] <hggdh> +1
[17:45] <gema> hggdh: I thought you were off! :)
[17:46] <hggdh> no, I was not :-)
[17:46] <gema> ok :D
[18:01] <bdmurray> #startmeeting
[18:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Dec  7 18:01:40 2011 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[18:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:03] <hggdh> ~o~
[18:03] <bdmurray> So this is the 2nd bugs meeting after the breakup ;-)
[18:04] <hggdh> indeed
[18:04] <bdmurray> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
[18:05] <bdmurray> pedro had an action to update wiki + send email re the BugSquad Meeting
[18:05] <bdmurray> the wiki looks updated to me
[18:05] <hggdh> so we are done there
[18:05] <bdmurray> the email was sent too?
[18:06] <hggdh> hum
[18:06] <bdmurray> I found it
[18:06] <bdmurray> so yes
[18:06] <hggdh> yes
[18:06] <bdmurray> however the topic in #ubuntu-bugs needs to be updated
[18:06] <bdmurray> [ACTION] bdmurray update the topic in #ubuntu-bugs regarding meetings
[18:06] <meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray update the topic in #ubuntu-bugs regarding meetings
[18:07] <bdmurray> that's it for the action items from the last meeting
[18:07] <bdmurray> [TOPIC] Engineering Team Bug Status
[18:08] <bdmurray> the foundations team is looking at bug 898787 and now and I've found a few more duplicates of it
[18:09] <bdmurray> we are also planning to update ubiquity so that dpkg messages in ubiquity log files are in English
[18:09] <bdmurray> this'll make bug pattern writing and duplicate finding easier going forward
[18:10] <bdmurray> I've also been working with a different graphing tool to show some more dynamic bug stats
[18:10] <bdmurray> Ursinha: Do you have anything?
[18:11] <hggdh> mia?
[18:12] <bdmurray> [ACTION] bdmurray send bugs meeting announcement before the next meeting
[18:12] <meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray send bugs meeting announcement before the next meeting
[18:12] <bdmurray> hggdh: maybe that'll help ;-)
[18:12] <hggdh> heh
[18:12] <bdmurray> jsalisbury: Anything going on in kernel bug land?
[18:14] <bdmurray> moving on then
[18:14] <bdmurray> [TOPIC] Other Topics
[18:14] <bdmurray> hggdh: Do you have anything?
[18:15] <hggdh> yes
[18:15] <hggdh> I have closed the mentorship, and now I am only left with removing the teams
[18:15] <hggdh> we need to think about the videos, etc
[18:15] <hggdh> ..
[18:16] <bdmurray> Yes, I emailed popey and got some information about tools etc
[18:16] <popey> "some information" = a wall of text ☺
[18:16] <bdmurray> So its on the list
[18:16] <hggdh> k
[18:16] <hggdh> heh
[18:17] <bdmurray> I've recently been working a lot with a bug report generation and gathering tool in arsenal
[18:18] <bdmurray> I'm rather excited about that and the graphing stuff.
[18:18] <bdmurray> Okay then I think that covers it.
[18:19] <hggdh> and I am to grab some data on harvest
[18:19] <bdmurray> hggdh: hm?
[18:20] <hggdh> dholbach and I discussed a bit what we can do with harvest
[18:20] <hggdh> extend, provide a better user interface, etc
[18:20] <hggdh> this has been a bit dormant, but I will get to it
[18:21] <bdmurray> hggdh: ah cool
[18:21] <hggdh> but this is it, from me
[18:21] <bdmurray> okay thanks
[18:21] <bdmurray> #endmeeting
[18:21] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Dec  7 18:21:52 2011 UTC.
[18:21] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-07-18.01.moin.txt
[18:21] <hggdh> thank you bdmurray
[18:22] <charlie-tca> Thank you for chairing, bdmurray
[18:23] <kamusin> thanks guys :)
[19:01] <moergaes> Hello world
[19:11] <tenach> hello moergaes
[19:12] <moergaes> Hi
[19:12] <moergaes> I guess I am a little too early here...
[19:26] <plars> https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/Infrastructure/LinaroCIBuildTestService#Setting_up_Jobs_on_ci.linaro.org
[19:26] <plars> oops, wl, sorry :)
[20:21] <moergaes> New guy asking: Is there a meeting going on here?
[20:22] <jrgifford> moergaes: don't think so, the #lubuntu meeting got cancelled.
[20:23] <moergaes> Well, it would have been nice with a message explaining this.
[20:24] <Yorvyk> There is a message on the mailing list