[08:30] <DJones> Morning all
[08:40] <czajkowski> morning
[09:08] <danfish> morning
[09:09] <czajkowski> ello danfish hows you
[09:11] <danfish> not bad tx. Public transport for a change - do they have to heat trains hotter than nursing homes?
[09:12] <danfish> czajkowski: what do you reckon http://www.quins.co.uk/rugby/match_centre.php?section=overview&fixid=158076
[09:13] <danfish> weekend after fosdem
[09:21] <czajkowski> danfish: looks good
[09:24] <AlanBell> morning all
[09:26] <danfish> czajkowski: tickets sl pricey - 32 quid.
[09:38] <oimon> looks like i was a bit hasty my gpodder last night. uupc failed to copy and i had to listen to LAS mint 12 review on the train instead :-\
[09:39] <oimon> those LAS guys get a bit worked up and shouty nowadays
[09:41] <popey> they aways have
[09:46] <oimon> i think they got worse in the last year or so
[09:46] <oimon> maybe reflective of the noise in the community as a whole
[09:55] <popey> was bryan with a y on it?
[09:56] <oimon> he's left the show
[09:56] <popey> oh i thought he was 'on a break'
[09:56] <oimon> they have a mild mannered guy on it instead
[09:59] <oimon> i interpreted that as the same as when phd students take a break
[10:00] <oimon> when you leave, you don't wanna think that you'll never come back, so it's a "break"
[10:00] <popey> I do find many podcasts hard to watch / listen to
[10:00] <popey> the only two techy ones I listen to frequently are Tuxradar and PCPro
[10:01] <oimon> i like LAS, but would be better if more informational and less reaction.
[10:01] <popey> I find most american podcasts to be too....
[10:01] <popey> american
[10:03] <oimon> what i find worse is the american ones who try to sound corporate/professional
[10:04] <oimon> if i picture the guy on the podcast and he's wearing a suit in my mind, it's not what i'm after
[10:04] <popey> hmm, such as?
[10:07] <oimon> i tried TWiT....completely american and dull
[10:07] <oimon> can't remember the other ones - i only usually try one episode max and make judgement on that
[10:14] <popey> I used to listen to TWiT but it's all very samey
[10:16] <oimon> once i tried watching diggnation (few years back) and the presenters were both drunk (and seemed quite proud of the fact). there's nothing worse than a sober person having to watch drunked idiots
[10:22] <smittix> Morning all
[10:22] <smittix> High fives the taxman
[10:23] <oimon> hmm, need to enter my tax return
[10:24] <gordonjcp> oimon: drunk *americans* at that
[10:24] <gordonjcp> so they've probably had like two 330ml cans of weak horrible beer
[10:26] <MartijnVdS> Heineken?
[10:27] <oimon> mind you , i haven't drunk beer for about 10 yrs now, it would have the same effect on me
[10:28] <Laney> I only listen to uupc, radio 4 choice & adam and joe :3
[10:28] <MartijnVdS> Laney: TIMC!
[10:28] <MartijnVdS> Laney: http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/timc !
[10:28] <popey> no more adam and joe ☹
[10:28] <Laney> I listen to that live, not as a podcast
[10:28] <popey> NONSESNE NONSENSE NONSENSE!
[10:28] <Laney> LOVE YOU BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
[10:29] <Laney> WTF
[10:29] <Laney> just plugged my headphones in and popey was talking
[10:29] <MartijnVdS> 8-|
[10:29] <Laney> i think i left uupc looping overnight
[10:29]  * popey hides in Laney's cupboard
[10:29] <MartijnVdS> the login sound is now Popey talking
[10:30] <Laney> want to iron my pants while you're there?
[10:31] <shauno> so I'm not the only one that puts uupc on when they're having problems getting to sleep
[10:33] <AlanBell> Laney: popey is great at ironing
[10:33] <Laney> that was a vast open space
[10:33] <Laney> this is a new challenge
[10:38] <gord> heh, just noticed that logitech sell keyboards without number pads, but they also sell separate stand alone number pads. clever logitech
[10:38] <MartijnVdS> they also sell keyboards with horrible messed-up layouts for the insert/delete/home/end/pageup/pagedown block
[10:38] <bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
[10:38] <bigcalm> How's the workplace day going without me?
[10:39] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you're here aren't you?
[10:39] <gord> bigcalm, cancelled *forever* because of *you* - or it would of just been me and davmor2 so we gave it a miss
[10:39] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: yes, but I'm not working and I'm not in Wolverhampton with gord & Davmor2
[10:40] <bigcalm> Awwww
[10:40] <bigcalm> Well, on the 1st day it was just me and davmor2
[10:40] <bigcalm> :)
[10:40] <bigcalm> gord: is there one scheduled for Jan?
[10:41] <gord> bigcalm, not got a date yet, but later in january, i have platform rally early on
[10:41] <bigcalm> Fair enough :)
[10:41] <gord> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-K360-Wireless-Keyboard-Victorian/dp/B005BUNK1U/ - yes i often like my keyboard to look like i spilt paint on it
[10:41] <bigcalm> We can beat out a date once davmor2 is around
[10:42] <bigcalm> gord: eww
[10:43] <oimon> wow, they do a mouse too like it
[10:43] <oimon> looks like a rosharch ink blot test
[10:47] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[10:59] <brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
[11:09] <Laney> check out the logo I'm rocking in this pic from the climbing comp
[11:09] <Laney> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/387747_10150514828451756_38579036755_10741593_389722859_n.jpg
[11:21] <kvarley> How can I get a webpage's contents and display the text of only <td> tags in terminal?
[11:22] <BigRedS> It depends how complex the html is
[11:22] <BigRedS> but, generally, with perl/python/similar and an html parsing module
[11:25] <kvarley> BigRedS: ok ty, I was trying to use php but it's not working so wanted an alternative to try lol
[11:26] <AlanBell> kvarley: beautifulsoup is a good library for picking stuff out of HTML
[11:27] <kvarley> AlanBell once again comes to the rescue =]
[11:27] <kvarley> ty
[11:38] <kvarley> This page couldn't be sloppier ... I want to retrieve the IP address and Mac Address for each entry. http://paste.ubuntu.com/763688/
[11:42] <dwatkins> could you parse the html with sed or a php script, kvarley?
[11:42] <kvarley> dwatkins: I've been trying to do php and cannot get it to work
[11:42] <bigcalm> http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0659.html :D
[11:44] <dwatkins> kvarley: how about this? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4629071/how-to-get-anchor-text-using-domdocument
[11:47] <BigRedS> kvarley: Perl has a nifty module called HTML::TableExtract which makes what it sounds like you're trying to do really easy. But, er, you'd need to know Perl
[11:50] <Laney> it's perl, you can just mash the keyboard and it will probably work
[11:51] <kvarley> dwatkins: Thanks, trying to do it now. I've read similar posts on the same site and none have worked so far. It's probably me but anyhoo
[11:51] <MartijnVdS> ARGH
[11:51] <MartijnVdS> WHY do they have to send 600 messages to ubuntu-security-announce when there's a kernel bug
[11:52] <MartijnVdS> etc.
[12:14] <jussi> are there other auction/second hand PC typ sites in the UK other than ebay?
[12:20] <bigcalm> ...
[12:21] <jussi> is the UK all still asleep or what?
[12:25] <directhex> zzzzzzzzzzz
[12:25] <MartijnVdS> *tumbleweed*
[12:29] <czajkowski> where the hell is davmor2
[12:30] <czajkowski> jussi: what are you looking to buy ?
[12:31] <DJones> jussi: You could look at freecycle.org
[12:32] <oimon> jussi: gumtree?
[12:32] <oimon> i have loads of PCs to get rid of
[12:36] <jussi> Im after a vaio p series
[12:37] <oimon> my local PC repair shop sells stuff like that
[12:38] <jussi> oimon: could you ask how much?
[12:39] <oimon> PM'd you with their details
[12:39] <jussi> thanks
[12:40] <oimon> prob best to try your local repair store tho
[12:53] <jussi> oimon: nah, they barely sold those here - and we dont have local repair stores like you do in the UK.
[12:54] <oimon> where are you? finland?
[12:54] <oimon> i thought you were in the uj
[12:54] <oimon> uj/uk
[13:16] <danfish> Ok - who's stolen all my entropy?
[13:19] <gord> just wait for a few minutes, you'll get it back
[13:19] <DJones> danfish: Its been absorbed by the cooler temperatures
[13:21] <danfish> DJones: ah - that explains it. I thought it was pixies.
[13:21] <danfish> installing rng-tools seems to have helped
[13:23] <DJones> Is that a new type of chocolate bar?
[13:25] <danfish> something like that
[13:34] <j0nr> Anyone have any experience running an ubuntu ec2 instance?
[13:35] <danfish> a little
[13:36] <j0nr> I am following the instruction on the ubuntu wiki (ec2 starters guide) but when I try to start an instance, I just keep getting "Client.InvalidKeyPair.NotFound: The key pair 'jcr_aws_keys' does not exist"
[13:37] <j0nr> Where does it think the key pair does not exist? I created it on the AWS console, so it definitely exists.
[13:37] <j0nr> I downloaed the private key bit and saved it but I don't see where that gets referenced?
[13:41] <danfish> did you put in a pointer to the keypair to use?
[13:41] <danfish> ie ec2-run-instances ami-image-to-be-run -k ec2-keypair1
[13:44] <j0nr> danfish: I had this: --key ${EC2_KEYPAIR_EU_WEST_1} and set env var
[13:44] <j0nr> in the guide its says to just state the name (not the file)
[13:44] <j0nr> I dont see how the private key i downloaded gets references
[13:50] <danfish> what happened with
[13:50] <danfish> ec2-run-instances ami-image-to-be-run -k jcr_aws_keys ?
[13:50] <j0nr> oh I found it... that keypair was in the wrong region
[13:52] <danfish> ah
[13:54] <Barbarian> Hey everyone
[13:54] <j0nr> i'm in!
[13:55] <j0nr> danfish: so do you know, if I install stuff in this instance, can that be saved, so when I shut it down I can reboot it just as it was?
[13:57] <danfish> j0nr: are using elastic block store to hold the image?
[13:58] <Barbarian> Guys, I'd appreciate your opinion on something. Had the idea today of burning a ton of precise pangolin cds, wrapping them in paper with the ubuntu logo on it, and going to a park and passing them out to anyone who wants during the summer. The problem is that it looks like pangolin won't fit on a CD. Do you think the minimal install is as user-friendly, and does it still have wubi?
[13:59] <j0nr> danfish: think so
[13:59] <AlanBell> Barbarian: if you want a stack of official printed CDs for free to hand out then give me a shout
[13:59] <danfish> j0nr: should be fine then - you can check that on the management interface on the aws website
[13:59] <Barbarian> AlanBell I'd appreciate that greatly!
[14:00] <AlanBell> pangolin is likely to fit on a CD I think, there was talk of going to 750MB but I suspect they want to fit to a CD
[14:00] <Barbarian> ok, if they end up cutting that 10mb bloat it would make life easier
[14:00] <pangolin> there was talk but I really don't believe they will make it bigger than 1 cd
[14:01] <pangolin> they could add/remove to the DVD iso if they wanted.
[14:11] <Barbarian> Romanian lug channel is so dead :( makes me sad
[14:11] <popey> so are many UK ones.
[14:12] <Barbarian> Definitely need to include a leaflet showing how to get to the ubuntu IRC channel with those CDs
[14:12] <Barbarian> to show it's a community, not just an OS
[14:14] <chrisjrob> it is a chicken and egg thing - people won't go there unless people are there
[14:14] <chrisjrob> perhaps you should log in a dozen times under different nicks and talk to yourself ;)
[14:14] <Barbarian> lol
[14:15] <chrisjrob> only way to get intelligent conversation
[14:15] <Barbarian> hahaha
[14:19] <popey> that reminds me
[14:22] <shauno> I'm still convinced cztab is multiple people, but that's the other way around
[14:22] <czajkowski> shauno: one of me is more than enough
[14:22] <Barbarian> ?
[14:22] <Barbarian> #newhere
[14:23] <Barbarian> btw, anybody else here a desura gamer out of interest?
[14:24] <Barbarian> I'll take that as a no. Ah well
[14:25] <oimon> it's v quiet here and at work - everybody winding down?
[14:25] <oimon> or really busy?
[14:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Just FYI http://www.alfresco.com/media/releases/2011/12/sap-global-it/
[14:26] <Barbarian> Relaxing with a cup of tea, personally oimon
[14:26] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Ubuntu IRC Council - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/12/08/ubuntu-irc-council/
[14:30] <danfish> oimon: madly busy
[14:31] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: SAP? What's that?
[14:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> hey ;-)
[14:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> You forgot that quick!
[14:32] <chrisjrob> blanked it out, as you should do forthwith
[14:36] <Barbarian> Right, should probably register a nick
[14:37] <Barbarian> brb
[14:41] <Barbariandude> Why can't I do mode +X?
[14:41] <popey> Is this a joke?
[14:41] <popey> I don't know, why can't you do mode +X?
[14:42] <Barbariandude> doesn't seem to be working
[14:42] <Barbariandude> unknown mode flag, is what freenode is saying
[14:43] <DJones> Barbariandude: What is mode +X ?
[14:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Ever get a TP? http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/07/hp-touchpad-ebay/
[14:43] <popey> no, saw that and figured they will all go for stupid money
[14:43] <DJones> Barbariandude: http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
[14:44] <KrimZon_2> popey: because the IRSSI
[14:45] <Barbariandude> DJones it's an IRC setting that uses the IRC ip instead of your own ip in /whois
[14:45] <Barbariandude> doesn't seem to be listed there
[14:46] <DJones> Barbariandude: May not be available on freenode, if you want a cloak to hide your ip address, you need to join #freenode and ask a staffer to set an unaffiliated cload for you
[14:46] <DJones> !cloak
[14:46] <Barbariandude> right, will go there, thanks DJones
[14:47] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: oh, they're doing it fixed price
[14:47] <DJones> !register | Barbariandude Just make sure you've followed this first
[14:47] <Barbariandude> DJones, yup, did that
[14:48] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: taken a look at yacy yet?
[14:49] <Barbariandude> Yacy is really cool. Still not many useful results as it's so new, but still cool
[14:49] <jonathonf> i've also had a look at yacy. first impressions: too heavy to run, results not good enough
[14:50] <popey> depends what you use it for
[14:50] <jonathonf> what do you use it for?
[14:51] <Barbariandude> jonathonf, you can turn down the RAM usage on the admin page. My problem with it is that it tends to crash during heavy crawls
[14:51] <Barbariandude> It's died about 4 times during a crawl of wikipedia for me
[14:51] <jonathonf> it's not just the ram usage; it's quite cpu intensive when you initiate a search
[14:52] <jonathonf> it would probably be fine on my i5 laptop, but it's painful on my Atom netbook
[14:52] <Barbariandude> jonathonf, not really noticed that on my i7
[14:52] <jonathonf> well you wouldn't  :P
[14:57] <popey> jonathonf: could be useful as an appliance for intranet search
[14:57] <jonathonf> ah, yes
[15:22] <Barbariandude> Got my cloak
[15:22] <Barbariandude> :D
[15:24] <directhex> i'm too hip for a cloak
[15:26] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Artwork for articles is lacking for FOSS organisations - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/12/08/artwork-for-articles-is-lacking-for-foss-organisations/
[15:26] <Barbariandude> Anybody seen this? http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/12/you-cant-opt-out-of-the-no-lawsuits-xbox-360-tos-update-after-all.ars
[15:27] <Barbariandude> Ridiculous
[15:28] <popey> meh
[15:29] <Barbariandude> And irl friends keep telling me "Why use linux? Come on, buy battlefield 3, who cares if Origin is spyware. Go back to Windows, it's easier! Microsoft isn't that bad, Bill Gates runs a charity!"
[15:30] <Barbariandude> And by this point they think I'm a wearer of tinfoil hats.
[15:31] <directhex> Barbariandude, same terms in Steam and PSN terms of use
[15:31] <directhex> also, not legally enforcable outside the US
[15:33] <Barbariandude> directhex, Not really. Steam has inbuilt into it's ToS the limitation of software directly related to steam (not so familiar with PSN, can't comment). Origin explicitly says in its ToS it will scan your harddrive and sell data to third parties.
[15:34] <directhex> didn't world of warcraft do that, in 2004?
[15:34] <directhex> watcher or guardian or something
[15:34] <Barbariandude> Really? Didn't hear about it, lemme go digging
[15:37] <directhex> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2005/10/new-gaming-feature-spyware
[15:43] <Barbariandude> Wow. Just wow. Good thing I never played it...
[15:54] <christel> AlanBell: what time train did we say we were aiming for?
[15:56] <AlanBell> christel: 16:27 or something like that I think
[15:56] <AlanBell> 16:28
[15:58] <AlanBell> who is going to surbiton tonight?
[15:58] <AlanBell> I can't make it, still stuck in Basingstoke
[15:58] <bigcalm> 16:27?
[15:58]  * bigcalm panicks
[15:58] <danfish> o/ for Surbiton
[15:58] <bigcalm> Oh, 16:28, that's ok then
[15:59] <AlanBell> bigcalm: trains from Farnham are sluggish
[16:00] <bigcalm> AlanBell: I'll be setting off from here about 9am, hopefully I'll be in time for the train ;)
[16:01] <AlanBell> hope so!
[16:01] <bigcalm> This is the disadvantage of not living where all the action happens
[16:01] <AlanBell> next year we will all come round your house
[16:01] <bigcalm> \o/
[16:02] <bigcalm> We've found the spare bed in the spare room, so sounds ok to me
[16:02]  * oimon envisages a giant slug moving through the english surreyside
[16:23] <daubers> o/
[16:26] <Laney> mmm tangfastics
[16:28] <kvarley> Slightly off-topic but I know there are PHP coders in here. Does anybody know why my script doesn't work? The loop to output table cells doesn't work :/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/763910/
[16:32] <oimon> what RAM size does PAE go up to?
[16:35] <buzz_> launchpad builders have an 11 hour build queue again. this is rubbish. the launchpad ppa build service just gets worse and worse.
[16:36] <oimon> what's slowing it down?
[16:37] <buzz_> builders have been removed until saturday or something. probably problems. just seems to happen more and more often. one of the admins might push my build priority up though for my packages which would be nice
[16:39] <buzz_> (since i whinged on the launchpad channel) ;-)
[16:39] <czajkowski> 16:42 -!- Topic for #launchpad: Build delays due to earlier hardware failure
[16:40] <buzz_> yeh hardware then. :(
[16:40] <christel> AlanBell: i'd love t do surbiton but i unfortunately have to wrap up some work for a client, so i doubt i'll finish before 8-8.30, at which point i suspect i'll be too tired to head out and play!
[16:40] <christel> so i shall save myself for tomorrow!
[16:43] <AlanBell> me too!
[16:43] <AlanBell> should be fun
[16:45] <AlanBell> oimon: 64GB I think
[16:50] <popey> buzz_: welcome to the club
[16:50] <popey> buzz_: my ppa builds were 7.5 hours yesterday
[16:50] <buzz_> :(
[16:50] <popey> I think it's because there's loads of recipes to build daily stuff
[16:50] <buzz_> last week or the week before i had 14 hour queue for a package
[16:50] <popey> like daily mozilla, openoffice etc
[16:50] <buzz_> i see
[16:50] <popey> those things take ages
[16:51] <popey> my iddy biddy package doesnt ☹
[16:51] <buzz_> i got two tiny little packages waiting (emgd / xorg driver for o2 joggler)
[16:56] <buzz_> popey, im sure your package is bigger than mine ;-)
[16:56] <popey> nope ☺
[16:56] <buzz_> are are you using utf8 smileys? :)
[16:57] <popey> buzz_: mine failed to build anyway
[16:57] <popey> buzz_: yes ⍨
[16:58] <buzz_> heh
[16:58] <Laney> the real archive is super fast! get stuff in there!
[16:58] <oimon> wow - seen that pic of the wind turbine in flames?
[16:59] <popey> no
[16:59] <buzz_> linkage required
[16:59] <oimon> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-16094360
[16:59] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuFYTVF2urE made me smile tho
[16:59] <oimon> image 13 of 13
[16:59] <buzz_> wow.
[17:00] <buzz_> popey, haha
[17:00] <oimon> thats what i tell my boy what will happen if you overwind your wind up car
[17:01] <buzz_> popey, funnily enough, that was also my reponse to that famous extreme ironing video ;-)
[17:01] <buzz_> oh my god. trampoline
[17:01] <oimon> what language is that on the video
[17:01] <popey> no idea
[17:02] <oimon> i've already watched it 5 times
[17:41] <nigelb> AlanBell / Pendulum - Is it possible to use onscreen keyboard for installing Ubuntu?
[17:44] <Pendulum> nigelb: I am fairly certain there should be an accessibility profile for that, but I've never done it.
[17:44] <nigelb> Interesting.
[17:48] <Adriannom> i used to have 2gb ram, now i have 8gb.  seems like apps now see that as a policy to hog even more ram.  i thought it was silly before the upgrade, now it's just stupid.  chrome regularly takes up 2gb, even eog takes up 200mb because i'm looking at a very small resolution png.  what's going on?
[17:49] <Adriannom> in fact chrome, ff, and opera all hog more ram than ever before
[18:09] <gord> Adriannom, they aren't hogging ram
[18:09] <gord> basically, there is ram there, so its worth caching things in there, its virtual memory
[18:10] <Adriannom> gord, i'm aware of caching, that is not what is happening
[18:10] <Adriannom> ohh wait
[18:10] <gord> Adriannom, riddle me this, does it show up as VIRT ram or actual resident memory? ;)
[18:10] <gord> firefox eats up 1.3gb of virtual memory, thats great! only 365 regular :)
[18:11] <Adriannom> nah i'm looking at free -m, -/+ buffers/cache
[18:12] <gord> at any rate, having applications use up ram you give them is a good thing, no matter how much they are using (as long as they aren't using so much that you run out of free space or don't have enough for other programs), it means they can access more content quicker
[18:13] <Adriannom> gord, well the issue is that i'm getting slowdown all the time.  i'm trying to use the system and sick of waiting like 5-10 seconds for everything to stop chugging away before a simple graphics update happens
[18:14] <Adriannom> not necessarily graphics update, but you know what i mean, for something to happen, like a window i pressed X on to close
[18:14] <gord> sounds like you have a memory leak in a graphics driver somewhere
[18:14] <Adriannom> the weird thing is i've always experienced this kind of thing no matter what machine i'm on
[18:15] <gord> that is weird, can't say i experience the same
[18:15] <Adriannom> last machine it turned out the 2gb ram was faulty, so i had high hopes for this machine.  8gb tests fine but i'm back to the old slow running
[18:16] <Adriannom> am i supposed to be rebooting every few days?
[18:16] <gord> i don't reboot my machines, just suspend
[18:16] <Adriannom> or are my expectations just too high, and thinking that things should be running faster than they did on windows 95 is just a dream? ;)
[18:17] <gord> things don't run faster than they did on windows 95 ;) but they do much much more
[18:17] <MartijnVdS> full-screen HD video runs MUCH better than it did on Win95 machines
[18:18] <Adriannom> yeah i know, but i'm just tired of buying better hardware and seeing ZERO difference
[18:18] <Adriannom> which has been happening for years
[18:18] <Adriannom> the most intensive thing i use is virtualbox, but i'm getting these problems even without vbox running
[18:19] <Adriannom> let alone the same problems on the actual vms
[18:20] <Adriannom> and web browsers aren't the worst candidates but they are the worst by far.  i don't see why they just casually take up several gigs of ram when before i didn't even have that
[18:20] <Adriannom> i hear chrome has a memory leak, but ff and opera too?
[18:22] <Adriannom> but you say you don't get the problem gord, so i wonder if the problem is with me or my usage of the machine, but i just can't imagine what.  all i've been doing is vbox and web browsing.  oh and a little inkscape.  doesn't seem like there's much to go wrong really
[18:23] <gord> inkscape can go a little crazy with the memory usage, but yeah i don't see it causing that much trouble
[18:23] <gord> Adriannom, you are on 64 bit right?
[18:23] <Adriannom> yup
[18:30] <ali1234> Adriannom: you need 16GB, and turn off untiy
[18:30] <ali1234> then ubuntu runs fast
[18:30] <ali1234> REALLY fast
[18:32] <AlanBell> 8GB is sufficient
[18:33] <Adriannom> ali1234, i don't have unity, i'm on 10.04
[18:33] <Adriannom> and i don't install any flashy crap
[18:33] <Adriannom> apart from flash...
[18:34] <ali1234> 8gb is sufficient if you don't use adblock plus and flashblock
[18:35] <Adriannom> ali1234, damn right it's sufficient... so i wish i knew why i was still having problems :/
[18:35] <AlanBell> nigelb: I have not been all the way through the installer using onboard, but you can start onboard without using a hard keyboard and I have no reason to suspect it would cause any problems with ubiquity
[18:36] <gord> i have 2gb, run unity and flash, everything is fine here :P
[18:36] <ali1234> well if you don't use adblock+ and flashblock then the adverts will slow the computer right down
[18:36] <ali1234> if you do use them, they double firefox memory usage, = you need 16GB
[18:36] <nigelb> AlanBell: Heh, someone was trying to install without a keyboard connected.
[18:36] <Adriannom> so ads can hog resources?
[18:36] <nigelb> He eventually went back and connected a physical keyboard.
[18:36] <ali1234> yes especially flash ones
[18:36] <AlanBell> nigelb: click the accessibility icon in the top panel, and start onboard
[18:36] <Adriannom> so it can be dependant on websites.  that's interesting
[18:36] <AlanBell> nigelb: precise?
[18:36] <ali1234> and especially on 10.04 which has that leaky firefox, leaky nvidia driver, and rubbish old version of flash
[18:37] <nigelb> AlanBell: Don't think so.
[18:37] <Adriannom> i have new flash but that other leaky stuff doesn't sound good
[18:37] <AlanBell> nigelb: ok, well I just tried in precise and it works, I have no doubt it was failier in earlier releases
[18:38] <Adriannom> i'm using nvidia
[18:38] <Adriannom> ali1234, what would you recommend?  i wanted lts really... :s
[18:38] <AlanBell> Adriannom: precise Alpha 1 \o/
[18:38] <ali1234> yeah it's a pity that the last lts was such a dud really
[18:39] <ali1234> the nvidia driver in 10.04 leaks about 2GB/day
[18:39] <ali1234> so yeah daily reboots...
[18:39] <Adriannom> what would you recommend?
[18:39] <ali1234> mint
[18:40] <Adriannom> why mint and not say, latest ubuntu?
[18:41] <ali1234> mint has a sane desktop ootb
[18:41] <AlanBell> Adriannom: I am using 11.10 and it works OK
[18:41] <ali1234> ubuntu has to be tweaked and tweaked before it is usable
[18:41] <AlanBell> I have precise in a VM and it works better than 11.10
[18:41] <ali1234> besides, mint *is* ubuntu
[18:41] <Adriannom> alpha is scary, this is a production machine
[18:41] <ali1234> define "production"
[18:43] <Adriannom> it will be used to run services and vms on a home network as well as webdev work
[18:43] <Adriannom> basically i'm hoping not to change the system for as long as possible, hence lts
[18:44] <Adriannom> maybe i should just make it headless and use a vm for work
[18:44] <AlanBell> personally I would be really tempted to go for precise, but be a bit careful of updates and have a plan to get the data off and reinstall if an update goes bad
[18:44] <AlanBell> things might not go bad (there is never an intention for them to go bad)
[18:45] <AlanBell> and then you end up on a supported good LTS for 5 years
[18:45] <AlanBell> and you might file some bugs and help get your 5 year desktop as right as you want it to be
[18:46] <AlanBell> what type of VMs are you running?
[18:46] <Adriannom> xp, ubuntu
[18:46] <AlanBell> kernel upgrades could potentially stop virtualbox working temporarily
[18:47] <ali1234> well 10.04 is supposed to be supported still right? yet it still has show stopping bugs
[18:47] <AlanBell> KVM or virtualbox?
[18:47] <Adriannom> vbox
[18:47] <Adriannom> ali1234, yeah that's what i was thinking...  i'm wondering why i have to consider an alpha :s
[18:47] <ali1234> and don't give me the "we can't support proprietary drivers" line
[18:48] <ali1234> because if that's the case, why did you make a desktop system that all but requires proprietary drivers?
[18:48] <Adriannom> i already lost a big bunch of confidence in ubuntu with them testing a totally unready unity on stable releases :s
[18:48] <AlanBell> ok, so precise will run those just fine, however if/when a kernel upgrade comes along, it might hose the virtualbox module temporarily
[18:49] <ali1234> precise will work fine until someone checks something bad into the repos and you update and then you just get a black screen after you reboot
[18:49] <AlanBell> I think unity requires an intel chipset
[18:49] <ali1234> oh, and nvidia driver will probably stop working for about 3 months some time between now and release
[18:49] <Adriannom> AlanBell, maybe i will run 10.04 headless and install the alpha on a few vms
[18:49] <Adriannom> sound like a plan?
[18:49] <AlanBell> yeah, that is a plan
[18:50] <Adriannom> unity is cpu specific and they ship it as the default desktop?  lol
[18:50] <AlanBell> GPU specific
[18:50] <AlanBell> well it isn't really
[18:50] <Adriannom> it just isn't ready? ;)
[18:50] <AlanBell> but the intel graphics (apart from GMA500) just work
[18:50] <Adriannom> or wasn't... haven't tried the latest
[18:50] <Adriannom> anyway
[18:51] <ali1234> unity requires 3d
[18:51] <Adriannom> i can imagine this channel has seen a lot of debates about unity
[18:51] <ali1234> or else you have to run the simplified 2d version
[18:51] <Adriannom> :P
[18:52] <Adriannom> i didn't have many technical difficulties getting unity running, and i still think it wasn't ready
[18:53] <Adriannom> however, gord, ali1234, AlanBell, thanks for all your help, at least i can work out why ubuntu 10.04 never ran right for me ;)
[18:53] <ali1234> oh, it still isn't ready. there's no question of that
[18:53] <Adriannom> ali1234, in which case it should not be default
[18:53] <ali1234> quite
[18:53] <Adriannom> but *shrug*
[18:53] <ali1234> but it's not like they had a choice
[18:53] <Adriannom> what do you mean?
[18:53] <ali1234> i mean gnome shell is even worse
[18:54] <ali1234> and kde hasn't been ready for the past 10 years
[18:54] <ali1234> and doesn't look like it is getting any better either
[18:54] <Adriannom> it's familiar, fast, stable, well thought out, mature
[18:54] <ali1234> kde?
[18:54] <Adriannom> unity is well thuoght out(ish?)
[18:54] <ali1234> or gnome shell?
[18:54] <Adriannom> either
[18:55] <ali1234> kde4 is obviously none of those things
[18:55] <Adriannom> ah ok.  i'm a gnome user personally
[18:55] <ali1234> gnome shell feels fast and stable but not well thought out
[18:56] <Adriannom> it's comprised the most well thought out interfaces so far (that are not in alpha/beta)
[18:56] <Adriannom> *comprised of
[18:56] <ali1234> not really
[18:56] <ali1234> the whole thing fails horrible on multimonitor
[18:56] <ali1234> it's like whoever came up with the idea didn't even think about it
[18:57] <ali1234> even unity works (slightly) better at that
[18:57] <Adriannom> while i agree it's well past time to have something better, it just hasn't really happened
[18:57] <ali1234> i don't agree
[18:57] <Adriannom> well, what do you use?
[18:57] <ali1234> unity
[18:57]  * Adriannom shrugs
[18:58] <Adriannom> i will probably give it another go
[18:58] <ali1234> the only decent linux desktop environment is no longer supported
[18:58] <ali1234> unity is the second best currently
[18:58] <ali1234> the best one was only the best one because canonical made it the best one
[18:58] <ali1234> before that happened, the best one was kde
[18:59] <Adriannom> they need to stop breaking stuff that already worked in gnome though.  like moving the title and menu to the top of the screen.  apparently you can disable it but every method i tried came across problems.
[18:59] <ali1234> so i still hope they can do it again with unity
[18:59] <ali1234> yeah the global menu sucks
[18:59] <Adriannom> yeah.  when they are doing less crazy i will be happy ;o
[19:00] <Adriannom> but i'm not complaining about the baby steps
[19:00] <Adriannom> just that they are happening on my newly installed production machines, if ubuntu has anything to say about it
[19:05] <AlanBell> I think mac users don't hate their global menu, not quite sure why
[19:07] <Adriannom> haven't they always had it?  and also don't they love being different?
[19:07] <AlanBell> yes, they have always had it, but they get new users all the time
[19:07] <Adriannom> yeah but all those new users love being different right?  isn't that the kind of person they market to? ;)
[19:08] <AlanBell> when people move from Windows to OS X they seem to not mind quirky stuff like the global menu and a dock that mixes running stuff and not running stuff
[19:09] <Adriannom> all the people i know that moved to mac hated it, apart from the people who struggle with even basic computer usage
[19:09] <Adriannom> i've never really used it for more than 10 minutes
[19:11] <Adriannom> so i really have no idea what it's all about.  it could just be 99% marketing for all i know
[19:12] <popey> I have a friend who wont let windows in the house
[19:13] <popey> she owns two macs, and when her daughter asked for a netbook she asked me to put ubuntu on it, rather than have windows
[19:14] <AlanBell> I am just wondering if there is something in the mac implementation of global menus that is different/better?
[19:14] <Adriannom> did windows kick her dog or something? :p
[19:14] <popey> AlanBell: they dont disappear for a start
[19:14] <ali1234> the reason mac users love global menu and ubuntu users don't is simple
[19:15] <ali1234> everyone who likes global menu already bought a mac
[19:15] <ali1234> selection bias in action
[19:17] <danfish> happy hour pub has a live band starting in an hour
[19:17] <Adriannom> i wonder how they got to "let's remove the menu from the thing the menu is about", without realising how silly that sounds
[19:17] <danfish> wasn't expecting that
[19:19] <Adriannom> the one thing it's got going for it imo is it makes me feel nostalgic
[19:19] <Adriannom> good ol' workbench :)
[19:22] <gordonjcp> what's the current theory on streaming live video to the web?
[19:22] <gord> ever wanted a giant Xorg logo in your home? amazon has you covered http://www.amazon.co.uk/CROSS-Modern-Coffee-Table-Colour/dp/B003W643TI
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> it's not even black/white alternating
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> like the default X background
[19:23] <jacobw> happy hour is in surrey :|
[19:23] <jacobw> surrey != west london
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: it's close though
[19:23]  * jacobw huffs
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: (closer than, say, the north of Scotland)
[19:23] <danfish> jacobw: why the huff?
[19:24] <jacobw> ha, i assumed west london meant 'the west end'
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> haha naive city boy ;)
[19:24] <danfish> big place this londinium
[19:28] <AlanBell> christel: slight change of plan, I will already be in London
[20:04] <christel> AlanBell: awww!
[20:05] <christel> that means i will have to work out how to navigate london!
[20:05] <christel> :p
[20:05] <AlanBell> I might meet you at waterloo
[20:05] <popey> AlanBell: I'll be coming to waterloo with mrs p
[20:06] <christel> waterloo is such an excellent idea!
[20:06] <christel> <3
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> ♫ Waterloo
[21:37] <czajkowski> whooo fireworks going on outside
[22:52] <andylockran> howdy
[22:52] <andylockran> w00p!  New job starting next year in London :D
[22:53] <andylockran> now looking for places to live.
[22:53] <AlanBell> yay
[22:53] <andylockran> AlanBell: mightily chuffed
[22:53] <andylockran> hopefully it'll mean I'll be able to make more of the social events
[22:54] <AlanBell> rightly so, what are you doing?
[22:54] <andylockran> AlanBell: moving from SysAdmin to Project Management
[22:54] <andylockran> and digital strategy
[22:54] <AlanBell> nice
[22:55] <AlanBell> did your time in India help with the interview?
[22:55] <andylockran> AlanBell: yes, very much so.
[22:55] <AlanBell> cool
[22:55] <andylockran> The interview went really well, the guy interviewing me saw some work I did at the polical autumn conferences
[22:56] <andylockran> we had a big screen up for the #healthdebate at each of the conferences, he'd organised the twitterfall on the screen - but I ended up doing the live tweeting whilst he did the gatekeeping
[22:57] <andylockran> he was impressed with my ability to not get us sued by misquoting what the politicians were saying (especially given Health is so contentious a subject at the moment, and we had Polly Toynbee, Stephen Dorrell, John Healy, Paul Burstow and Andrew Lansley all participating (though not at the same conference)
[22:58] <andylockran> I've been brought on board to help them with their ecommerce strategy, whilst also developing my own Project Management skills.  They've also got a good charity portfolio, so that's attractive too.
[22:59] <AlanBell> sounds excellent
[22:59] <gord> congrats andylockran
[23:00] <andylockran> thanks
[23:00] <andylockran> just need to find a replacement sysadmin for my current job now...
[23:01] <andylockran> had quite a few CVs in but the majority of them are hmmm at best.
[23:04] <andres-kain> congrats andylockran ! Can I ask what charity work?
[23:10] <bigcalm> AlanBell: ping
[23:11] <AlanBell> o/
[23:11] <bigcalm> \o/
[23:12] <andylockran> andres-kain: I'm not sure which charities I'll be working with to begin with - first part of the job is to sanitise internal systems
[23:12] <andylockran> any recommendations for good spots in London to live?
[23:13] <popey> andylockran: ask Ng or meltemi
[23:14] <Nafallo> andylockran: jpds have been in most of them. might be worth asking him.
[23:14] <andylockran> kewl, thanks guys
[23:20] <gordonjcp> andylockran: is such a thing possibly?
[23:20] <gordonjcp> *possible
[23:22] <andres-kain> andylockran I recomend the richmond upon thames area. A small cheap place called Ham https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ham,_London
[23:25] <andylockran> gordonjcp: I hope so
[23:28] <Nafallo> I would avoid that place based on the name of it.
[23:28] <Nafallo> just saying.
[23:28] <Nafallo> srsly. ham?
[23:29] <andres-kain> yep. best place in london. ham.
[23:29] <andres-kain> Could be improved if it was called Serrano Ham.
[23:30] <Nafallo> ham is just a tad to close to spam for me.
[23:32] <andylockran> I dont' fancy Clapham, both me and my partner will be working centrally
[23:32] <andylockran> but yeah - will hopefully discuss tomorrow
[23:33] <andylockran> night all !
[23:33] <andylockran> and thanks for the good wishes :)
[23:33] <andylockran> and if anyone knows of a decent SysAdmin in Birmingham looking for a job, get them to msg me please ..
[23:33] <andres-kain> If you are a vegetarian you will be happy to know that the term vegetarian was coined first in ham. First place of the world.
[23:44] <directhex> omg it's aquarius
[23:45] <aquarius> it is, but only briefly
[23:51] <Nafallo> who's aquarius ?
[23:51] <Nafallo> ;-)
[23:54]  * Laney is an aquarius