/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/12/09/#juju.txt

SpamapShazmat: looking now00:06
SpamapShazmat: looks like it is .. note that it won't be installed on anyone's system because the version is < than the one in 11.1000:08
SpamapShazmat: 11.10 has 0.8.0-0ubuntu1 , the ppa has 0.8.0-0juju45~oneiric1 .. j < u00:08
hazmatbummer00:09
SpamapShazmat: IMO its a good thing. :) This PPA shouldn't have anything more than you *need* to run juju.00:11
SpamapShazmat: we probably need a dev PPA for stuff like that.00:11
hazmatSpamapS, its not a breaker yet, but it will be in future ppa revs of the juju00:12
SpamapShazmat: at that point we will put the backport in the PPA.00:15
hazmatjimbaker, i'm wondering if it would be faster to just reset the groups on shutdown of ec200:15
hazmatrather than playing the waiting game00:15
jimbakerhazmat, that does sound reasonable and equivalent00:16
jimbakeri think it was just an attempt to not create too much garbage00:16
jimbakerin terms of lots of security groups hanging around00:17
jimbakerhazmat, i'm pretty certain this is what was done in an earlier version, i don't know if that ever went through review00:17
jimbakeralthough the reset then was done at SG acquisition, so a bit different i guess00:18
hazmathmm.. yeah00:18
hazmatjimbaker, group removal at shutdown almost never works for me00:18
hazmatit always gives up00:18
hazmatso i'm wondering if its worth the bother00:19
jimbakerhazmat, hmmm... it does tend to work for me, but i tend to just run the wordpress stack at most00:19
hazmateffectively.. i wait 30s.. and then.. 2011-12-08 19:14:20,668 ERROR Instance shutdown taking too long, could not delete groups juju-public-000:19
hazmatand it moves on00:19
jimbakeryeah, and without ill effect, since it can just use those SGs anyway00:20
hazmatwell it will try to delete them latter as  i recall00:20
hazmatand fail if can't delete them00:20
hazmatie. if you try to bootstrap immediately00:21
hazmatresetting the security group means no waiting or errors00:21
jimbakerhazmat, that does sound like a valid diff approach then00:21
hazmaton bootstrap we can go ahead and clear out any detected garbage00:21
hazmatugh..00:22
hazmatthat sounds rather odd though.. but the reality is the sgs are still present, so its better than nothing00:22
jimbakerhazmat, it sounds reasonable to me. cleanup is supposed to solve the bounce problem seen in yes | juju destroy-environment && juju bootstrap - so if it doesn't, or not reliably, we need to revisit00:26
hazmatinteresting that error kees saw only exhibits in the us-west-1 region00:27
hazmatthe response from ec2 is different00:27
hazmatso txaws parsing goes awry00:27
hazmatwhen stringfing the error msg00:27
_mup_juju/provisioning-agent-bug-901901 r431 committed by kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com00:29
_mup_let the logging package format the exception00:29
jimbakerhazmat, that is very interesting00:29
adam_gis it possible to change default-image-id at deploy time?00:43
fwereade_hazmat, is it deliberate that there's no RelationWorkflow transition from error -> departed?00:44
adam_ghttp://paste.ubuntu.com/764414/  :|00:44
hazmatfwereade_, i believe it was, but in retrospect it seems reasonable that there should be one00:49
fwereade_hazmat, cool, cheers00:49
hazmathmm00:49
fwereade_hazmat, even if we don't want to fire a departed hook I think we need to be able to make that transition00:51
fwereade_hazmat, I could be convinced either way on the fire-hook question00:52
osadminWhenever I reboot my host juju reports it as stopped even though it is running. Anyone know how to fix this?01:08
osadminAnyone, Whenever I reboot my host juju reports it as stopped even though it is running. Anyone know how to fix this?01:10
hazmatosadmin, having juju survive reboots is a work in progress atm, which provider are you using?01:11
osadminhazmat, provider? not sure but I am running the most uptodate ubuntu server version01:11
hazmatosadmin, are you running juju services on ec2, or physical machines via orchestra, or local/lxc dev on a machine01:12
osadminhazmat, running on physical machines via orchestra. hosts are running openstack01:13
hazmatosadmin, could you pastebin the output of juju status01:17
hazmatosadmin, at the moment, agents that juju launches aren't set to come back up on machine boot, its something thats being worked on though.01:17
osadminhazmat, will do, and fyi here is the doco I followed to create the env01:18
osadminhazmat, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ServerTeam/UbuntuCloudOrchestraJuju01:18
osadminhazmat, http://pastebin.com/HuzfJqiq01:20
osadminhazmat, is there anyway I can manually reset the agent status?01:21
hazmatosadmin, yes, its a little involved, but the command that launched the agent is in the cloud-init userdata01:22
hazmatosadmin, its the output of... sudo cat /var/lib/cloud/instance/user-data.txt01:23
hazmater. its in the output of01:24
osadminhazmat, that would be great as I am using "juju ssh" to access the hosts01:24
osadminhazmat, ok I have logged into the host and am looking at that file now.01:26
osadminhazmat, what do I do with this? Sorry (noob to this stuff)01:28
hazmatosadmin, hm.. that will start the machine agent.. but that won't start the unit agents..01:28
hazmatosadmin, so for example this is what i have my in output of that file.. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/764439/01:29
hazmatosadmin, the command to run the agent is embedded in there... for that output its this one.. JUJU_MACHINE_ID=3 JUJU_ZOOKEEPER=ip-10-176-22-254.us-west-1.compute.internal:2181    python -m juju.agents.machine -n --logfile=/var/log/juju/machine-agent.log --pidfile=/var/run/juju/machine-agent.pid01:30
hazmatyou'd just run that with a sudo prefix on the cli01:30
hazmatthe machine will start reporting in, it looks like it will restart the unit agents, so that should do it01:31
osadminhazmat, lost my irc for a moment, back now and will look over the pastebin01:32
hazmat<hazmat> osadmin, the command to run the agent is embedded in there... for that output its this one.. JUJU_MACHINE_ID=3 JUJU_ZOOKEEPER=ip-10-176-22-254.us-west-1.compute.internal:2181    python -m juju.agents.machine -n --logfile=/var/log/juju/machine-agent.log --pidfile=/var/run/juju/machine-agent.pid01:32
hazmat<hazmat> you'd just run that with a sudo prefix on the cli01:32
osadminhazmat, ok01:33
hazmatosadmin, fwiw i'd recommend running from the ppa, we keep it pretty stable, and when the restartable feature/bug fix lands, it will be there first, there's also some additional status output and fixes that are useful for orchestra usage.01:35
osadminhazmat, getting errors I will paste what I did01:37
osadminhazmat, http://pastebin.com/dr6BSMZe (added sudo to this command)01:38
hazmatosadmin, there's a trailing '] that shouldn't be there01:38
osadminhazmat, oh, I removed that and got an error, will paste the error01:39
osadminhttp://pastebin.com/CBAqj0gj01:40
osadminhazmat, http://pastebin.com/CBAqj0gj01:40
hazmatosadmin, the full command should look like this..01:46
hazmat JUJU_MACHINE_ID=3 JUJU_ZOOKEEPER=ip-10-176-22-254.us-west-1.compute.internal:2181    python -m juju.agents.machine -n --logfile=/var/log/juju/machine-agent.log --pidfile=/var/run/juju/machine-agent.pid01:46
hazmatie. it specifies environment variables01:46
hazmatthe whole line needs to be used01:46
osadminhazmat, I did the following was this wrong?  export JUJU_MACHINE_ID=4; export JUJU_ZOOKEEPER=oscc-01.itos.deakin.edu.au:218101:47
hazmatosadmin, that should be fine01:48
hazmatosadmin, you can't use sudo then01:48
hazmatthe shell environment won't persist through the sudo01:48
hazmatyou'd have to use a root shell if your going to do it that way01:48
osadminok01:49
osadmintrying01:49
osadminno errors01:49
osadminhazmat, juju status has not changed however01:50
osadminhazmat, I can now "juju ssh" into the host, I will recheck juju status again01:52
osadminhazmat, status still says stopped01:53
hazmatosadmin, can you pastebin the machine agent log file /var/log/juju/machine-agent.log01:54
osadminok01:54
hazmatosadmin, there's a cli tool that makes that easier.. apt-get install pastebinit01:55
hazmatand then you can.. cat /var/log/juju/machine-agent.log | pastebinit01:55
hazmatand it will give you a url01:55
osadminthx01:55
hazmatbcsaller, jimbaker could i get a +1 on this trivial.. http://paste.ubuntu.com/764452/01:56
osadminhazmat, host may not be able to get out at this stage. May have to do it the old fashion way.01:57
bcsallerhazmat: lgtm02:00
osadminhazmat, here is the tail of the file you requested http://pastebin.com/Z1QgvpEC02:00
osadminhazmat, here is the whole log file. http://pastebin.com/u9SWwc5x02:06
hazmathm..02:06
hazmatosadmin, could you paste log file at /var/lib/juju/units/nova-compute-1/charm.log02:07
hazmatosadmin, the machine agent looks like its running fine.. the charm.log will show the service unit agent log file02:08
osadminhazmat, ok fyi: here is the juju status output. http://pastebin.com/qAhdTggJ02:08
* hazmat nods02:09
_mup_juju/trunk r431 committed by kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com02:11
_mup_[trivial] provisioning agent fix, let the logging package format the exception [f=901901][r=bcsaller]02:11
osadminhazmat: tail of the file for starters. http://pastebin.com/Ge63NQvg02:12
osadminhazmat,whole of the requested log file is here: http://pastebin.com/9jChCVnS02:22
osadminhazmat: 2nd try http://pastebin.com/iHfLuWUh02:24
osadminhazmat, lol, grabbed to much with that last pastebin, u may have to scroll down a bit to see the contents of the log file02:27
hazmatosadmin, yeah.. that's not going to recover without some surgery.. your probably better off just removing the unit, terminating the machine, and adding a new unit02:47
hazmatie. juju remove-unit nova-compute/1, juju terminate-machine 4, juju add-unit nova-compute02:48
=== Guest46496 is now known as jrgiffor1
osadminhazmat, thanks. Will do but first, will doing this delete any apps from nova-comput/1?02:53
hazmatosadmin, it will02:54
hazmatwell.. it probably will02:54
osadminom02:54
osadminok02:54
hazmati'm not sure if orchestra is going to reinstall the machine when its cleared out02:54
hazmater.  shutdown02:54
hazmatfor the next boot.. my understanding is atm it doesn't, so the data would still be there, but i wouldn't count on it02:55
osadminI guess I could wait until the fix is released02:55
osadminhazmat, d u think the fix will be a while away?02:56
hazmatosadmin, the fix won't help for an existing installation, there's a branch in review which implements it02:57
hazmatso not to far away02:57
hazmatprobably another week or two02:57
osadminhazmat, thats ok, I will be rebuilding this very soon. If timing is right, I will build with the fixed version. D u think release bfore xmas is poss?02:58
osadminok02:58
osadminthanks02:58
hazmatosadmin, np02:58
osadminhazmat, what d u use juju for mainly?02:59
nijabaGood morning08:05
Sander^workdoes juju work with vmware ?08:30
=== TeTeT_ is now known as TeTeT
nijabaSpamapS: @ubuntucloud will republish your tweets, except if you tweets start either by "@ubuntucloud" or "RT" or "♺".  Hence why your tweet was not retweeted10:06
nijabaSpamapS: so move @ubuntucloud toward the end, and it will be retweeted10:07
shafiqissanihow to deploy wordpress to a single instance11:01
shafiqissanii.e. bootstrap instance + mysql instance + wordpress instance all on the same instance11:02
rogshafiqissani: you can't do that currently.11:05
shafiqissaniI see11:05
fwereadeshafiqissani, some people have been bringing up single EC2 instances and running the local provider on just that one instance11:08
fwereadeshafiqissani, so it's not *impossible*, but it is not a configuration we would recommend for production11:09
shafiqissanifwereade: I know it is not the optimal configuration but imagine it to be on the line of shared hosting11:11
shafiqissanifwereade: a site or service that does not require high availability and get very little traffic would a scenario for such a configuration11:12
fwereadeshafiqissani, indeed, there are interesting possibilities when units can share machines, and we plan to do something about that -- but it's not on the current roadmap yet11:12
shafiqissanihm so the solution for now is an ec2 instance with all the deploys runnning on local configuration using lxc as base11:13
shafiqissaniman virtualization inside of virtualization! ... is it just me or does that sound crazy :D11:13
fwereadeshafiqissani, yep; that's the current one-machine solution11:14
fwereadeshafiqissani, heh, I take your point, but juju isn't necessarily working with ec2 "machines": it could be working with real hardware managed by orchestra11:14
shafiqissanifwereade: right, the service level abstraction ... got it11:15
nijabaHas anyone used juju scp command successfully?12:10
rognijaba: jimbaker's the one to ask about that :-)12:17
nijabarog: actually his mail to the ml describing it is more useful than the help for the command.  Got it to work now!12:17
rognijaba: cool!12:18
hazmatSander^work, no re vmware virtualization, yes wrt to cloud foundry, rabbitmq, etc.12:20
hazmatnijaba, unfortunate.. it probably should be the help for the command12:22
hazmatnijaba, what's unclear about the output of juju scp -h12:23
nijabahazmat: I think it just lacks an example.  or maybe the "[remote_host:]file1" should be "[remote_host:]sourcefile1" and  [remote_host:]file2 be [remote_host:]destfile112:32
nijabahazmat: also, what would be really cool, is to be able to use scp from a charm to the bootstrap machine.  This way I could put my some file on bootstrap and scp the files from it to the charm automagically12:37
nijabahazmat: but I guess I am trying to work around bug 81497412:40
_mup_Bug #814974: config options need a "file" type <juju:Triaged by jimbaker> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/814974 >12:40
_mup_Bug #902143 was filed: juju set <service_name> --filename does not work <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/902143 >12:52
hazmatnijaba, indeed12:52
koolhead11marcoceppi: hey13:07
hazmatbcsaller, none of your branches show up on the kanban view13:46
Sander^workhazmat, Can juju install several wordpress installations to one apache and one mysql server?13:52
fwereadehazmat, UnitLifecycle._process_relation_changes has an interesting little dance where all removed relation workflows are explicitly stopped before any depart transitions are fired13:53
hazmatSander^work, no, juju would model those as separate services, the wordpress charm is not done in a multi-tenant fashion13:54
* hazmat puts on his dancing shoes13:54
fwereadehazmat, this seems to be intended to ensure that no other hook executions (from joined, say) can sneak in once we know that we're departing13:54
hazmatfwereade, interesting, indeed, thats seems quite correct13:55
fwereadehazmat, but I don't see how it can work; stop itself will yield13:55
hazmatfwereade, the logical flow to depart takes account the yield13:56
fwereadehazmat, sorry, don't follow, restate please13:57
hazmatfwereade, at the end of the stop, the scheduler is stopped, their maybe a hook execution that will happen before the depart, but the depart will be last13:57
Sander^workhazmat, so it's possible to create a new wordpress charm that can be deployed twince to one instance?13:59
hazmatfwereade, the concurrency on the yield isn't relevant in this context, because at the end of the stop method the scheduler which serves as a sync point is stopped, and concurrent notifications/executions go through the scheduler,  the depart directly schedules on the executioner, and it will be post any concurrent activity from the rel.14:00
hazmatSander^work, juju doesn't do density outside of the local provider atm14:00
hazmatand the local provider isn't routable14:01
fwereadehazmat, ...if that's the case, why don't we just stop inside the do_depart method on workflow?14:01
fwereadehazmat, which we do in fact do14:01
Sander^workhazmat, what is a local provider?14:02
fwereadehazmat, I'm worrying we really shouldn't execute normal relation hooks at all once we know we've departed, because we can't be sure that all the relevant state still exists14:03
hazmatSander^work, https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/provider-configuration-local.html14:03
hazmatfwereade, moving stop to inside do_depart is fine, but i don't see how that changes what happens14:04
hazmatfwereade, we execute stop immediately after we're notified14:04
fwereadehazmat, but this may just be because I'm still a little bit unsure about (1) what state needs to exist to run a relation hook and (2) what state may or may not be suddenly cleared by client operations14:04
hazmatfwereade, and the zk structures are in place14:04
fwereadehazmat, if all the necessary zk structures will remain in place throughout all client operations, then there's no need for the dance, right?14:06
hazmatfwereade, the comment directly reasons why the dance is there14:06
hazmatto avoid things like.. modify after depart14:07
Sander^workhazmat, what do you mean by "do density" ?14:07
hazmatSander^work, multiple units on a single 'machine'14:07
fwereadehazmat, you just said "fwereade, moving stop to inside do_depart is fine, but i don't see how that changes what happens"; I'm confused14:08
Sander^workhazmat, ah, ok. Is there any reason why it dosn't do density outside of the local provider?14:08
fwereadehazmat, either all we care about is stop-before-depart, in which case we can move it; or the little stop-everything-and-only-then-depart-everything dance is unnecessary14:08
fwereadehazmat, ...right?14:09
fwereadehazmat, sorry, scrambled something there14:09
fwereadehazmat, stepping back14:13
fwereadehazmat, (1) the only thing we care about is that no other relation hooks can fire once the relation-broken hook is has done so; agree?14:14
fwereadehazmat, (2) once we've called stop(), we can be sure that no other relation hooks will fire; agree?14:15
hazmatSander^work, there's some work that will achieve density in a consenting adults fashion via unit placement/resource constraints, there's additional work being done to allow subordinate charms to live in a container with a parent/master charm for things like logging etc. The main reason for lack of density in a rigorous fashion, is that juju allows for dynamic port usage by a charm, and this is problematic when putting two independent cha14:16
hazmatrms with port conflicts on the same machine, a the conflict is undetectable apriori. there's some talk of using like a soft network overlay to alleviate that for density, but its not on the roadmap atm14:16
fwereadehazmat, (3) therefore, we can call lifecycle.stop() in workflow.do_depart(), and we can guarantee that from that point on no further hooks can be scheduled , so we're safe to just run lifecycle.depart(); agree?14:16
hazmat1) yes, 2) yes, but one may be currently executing, 3) yes14:18
fwereadehazmat, and if you do agree with all the above, I don't understand the purpose of the dance, because it's just duplicating work already done in do_depart14:18
hazmatfwereade, the purpose of the dance is to immediately stop all broken hooks14:18
hazmatfwereade, if you do it in depart, your having exeuctions of a depart hooks, and more hooks for broken relations can be executing, as the rels are serially stopped.14:19
hazmatwhere as the dance ensures all rels that are broken are stopped, and then executes their individual depart hooks14:20
hazmater. broken hooks via depart transition14:20
Sander^workhazmat, I whould like to see a diffrence on density when it comes to applications that uses another service's port. 2x Wordpress can easily be installed into one apache instance without any port issues.14:20
hazmatSander^work, you could write a wordpress charm that encapsulated that capability, ie multi-tenant wordpress hosting in a single unit14:21
fwereade_hazmat, is that correct, or am I still missing something?14:22
hazmatfwereade, say i have 5 broken relations, the current dance ensures all 5 are stopped before executing any of their depart hooks14:23
hazmatfwereade, your suggesting that we go through each of the rels, stop it execute its broken hook, and then process the next14:24
fwereade_hazmat, what would be the negative consequences of failing to do so?14:24
fwereade_hazmat, really that we just go through each and fire the departed transition, and trust the transition to ensure the lifecycle is stopped14:25
hazmatfwereade, the problem is that may be events for those 5, that are happening and scheduling/executing hooks while your executing for the one.. ie your processing htem in serial14:25
hazmatwhich means your getting hook execution for those not processed, even though the rel is known to be broken14:25
Sander^workhazmat, Am I understanding it right?.. So I then can deploy wordpresse installs on demand into customer's directories for one fixed apache instance?14:26
fwereade_hazmat, ok, that's fine; but we can't be sure that won't happen anyway, can we? we yield several times in the course of stopping all those lifecycles, and the not-yet-stopped ones could still be scheduling hooks14:27
hazmatSander^work, a charm can do whatever it wants to do on a machine, in this case you'd have to write the charm yourself14:27
hazmatthe existing wordpress charm doesn't address that use case14:27
fwereade_hazmat, and if it's a situation we're already prepared to accept, I don't see that reducing its incidence is exceptionally important14:29
hazmatfwereade_, indeed its an optimistic guarantee not an absolute, if there is concurrent activity happening at that sec14:29
Sander^workhazmat, Ok. Do you know about any documents I should read to be able to write a charm like that?14:29
fwereade_hazmat, and the consequences of unjustified optimism could be, at worst, ..?14:29
hazmatfwereade_, the goal is minimizing hook execution for hooks known broken, waiting on a scheduler is minimal14:29
hazmatwaiting on hook executions creates a large gap14:30
fwereade_hazmat, ok, thanks for clearing that up; the original comment seemed to me to be suggesting that the stop would prevent *any* extra hooks from slipping in14:30
hazmatfwereade_, we could probably offer a better guarantee of that, if we stopped the executor, but given that's a shared resource i felt more comfortable with minimizing the possibility.. and the reality is that there is the possibility that a rel hook is executing when we get the notification the rel is broken14:34
hazmatsince the schedulers feed into the executor, stopping it there suffices14:35
marcoceppikoolhead11: hey14:35
fwereade_hazmat, yeah, I pondered stopping the executor, it wouldn't be a nice solution14:35
hazmatand the currently executing rel hook14:35
hazmatis always a possibility14:35
fwereade_hazmat, I must be missing something about the significance of a currently executing rel hook14:36
hazmatfwereade_, feel free to add to the comment about this14:36
fwereade_hazmat, I will :)14:36
hazmatSander^work, well the general understanding of charms helps, but first just figuring out how you do it outside of charms is helpful14:38
hazmatSander^work, http://askubuntu.com/questions/82683/what-juju-charm-hooks-are-available-and-what-does-each-one-do  http://askubuntu.com/questions/84656/where-can-i-find-the-logs-of-irc-charm-school14:39
SpamapShttp://www.debian-administration.org/article/Installing_Redmine_with_MySQL_Thin_and_Redmine_on_Debian_Squeeze  ... looks like a charm to me. ;)14:44
jimbakernijaba, sure, sounds like a good idea to augment juju scp (and other commands that need it) with more example-oriented help14:45
SpamapSjimbaker: we call that "man pages"14:49
SpamapSand you guys wanted me to make juju auto-generated which I've been looking into14:49
SpamapSerr.. language.. not quite unthawed from sleep.. rrrrrr14:50
TheMueWe don't have a kind of "juju retrieve-environment ..." to retrieve a somewhere else setup environment and merge it into the own one.14:52
TheMueThe intention is that a 2nd new operator can easily extend  his environment to take over the administration of an environment.14:54
Sander^workhazmat, is it possible to write a charm that deploys eg. wordpress over an ftp connection?14:57
SpamapSTheMue: I think that would be brilliant14:59
SpamapSSander^work: no, juju is built on the ability to own whole servers.14:59
SpamapSSander^work: you could write a charm which deploys a webservice + ftp onto a machine which accepts wordpress uploads. ;)15:00
TheMueSpamapS: Aaargh, "bootstrap" has to be renamed! I allways do the same typo here. (smile)15:04
Sander^workSpamapS, Okay.. Is it possible to deploy a charm.. where an ldap database defines which uid/gid the files deployed is owned by?15:04
SpamapSSander^work: certainly15:04
SpamapSSander^work: things like system policy are hard right now.. dev work has just begun on a feature to separate system policy charms from servie charms.15:05
SpamapSservice even15:05
Sander^workI'm using apache with an ldap module an mod_fcgid so every vhost get it's own uid.15:07
SpamapSSander^work: yeah, that would be quite doable15:07
Sander^workWhould love to be able to deploy our whole architecture trough a set of charms :-)15:09
SpamapSTheMue: one thing to consider with the idea of retrieve-environment is that there is a desire, eventually, for environments.yaml to be limited to only facts that help you find and authenticate to the environment...15:10
SpamapSTheMue: any of the settings would be stored and managed inside ZK15:10
SpamapSSander^work: we'd love for you to be able to do that too.15:11
SpamapSSander^work: charms are just scripts in whatever language you want... so you can just duplicate whatever you have now into a charm. :)15:12
TheMueSo the new admin only should get those facts. Once added his commands would use the ZK on the bootstrap instance, wouldn't they?15:15
mchenetzI tried asking this on the Vagrant chat, but i think everyone is asleep. :-) Has anyone tried to implement Juju in Vagrant? I would be interested in working on that if not.15:15
TheMueSpamapS: Where do I find the environment on the bootstrap instance? Only in ZK or does a file exists?15:27
nijabaSpamapS: rouncube charm now has https support15:39
SpamapSmchenetz: No but I figure its probably possible15:42
SpamapSmchenetz: the local provider is basically vagrant-like tho15:43
mchenetzSpamaps: hmmm I am just learning Juju… What is the local provider?15:44
SpamapSmchenetz: spins up 'machines' by way of LXC containers15:44
SpamapSmchenetz: instead of using EC2 or a hardware provisioning system15:44
SpamapSmchenetz: so its quite useful for testing things disconnected15:45
mchenetzhmmm, interesting. I will look into that. I still think it would be nice to integrate it into Vagrant as i use it a lot and it already has chef and puppet...15:45
SpamapSmchenetz: juju is more like vagrant than chef or puppet15:45
mchenetzDefinitely… I do a lot of deployments in the cloud for some hugh customers… Juju is definitely going to be a big part of my future!15:45
mchenetzI watched the webinar yesterday and my head is spinning with ideas15:46
SpamapSmchenetz: so it wouldn't really make sense for vagrant to run juju at the same level as chef or puppet... juju doesn't have a DSL or a big library of configuration tools. Its just for coordinating and orchestrating these encapsulated services.15:47
SpamapSmchenetz: I was "Clint" from the webinar. :) any questions?15:47
SpamapSmchenetz: and thanks for watching!!15:47
SpamapSmchenetz: I'm quit interested to hear how your vagrant knowledge maps to juju.15:48
mchenetzhehe, i asked the security question the other day. I am mainly an enterprise security consultant. So, i am thinking about how i can create charms that would encompass some security vm's into the solution. I am thinking about creating some special firewall and ids modules that integrate with juju charms15:49
mchenetzI will definitely keep you informed on how Vagrant and juju map up. :-)15:50
SpamapSmchenetz: complex networking, thus far, has not been a part of the juju conversation.. but the colocation (or actually, subordination) work that is going on will enable that quite nicely.15:50
SpamapSmchenetz: note that the security model of juju is still evolving, I'd love to hear your input on how important it is. There are a few bugs tagged "security" that are sort of our second priority.15:51
mchenetzI would like to be able to say add-firewall port-80 relation or something to that effect and it will add a firewall and maybe some die monitoring too15:51
mchenetznot die… ids...15:51
SpamapSmchenetz: well in EC2 nothing is accessible from outside -> inside15:52
SpamapSmchenetz: we use the ec2 ingress firewall extensively15:52
mchenetzthats true… I am not just thinking ec2 though…15:52
SpamapSmchenetz: you could write a firewall subordinate charm and do exactly what you're talking about15:52
mchenetzthats what i am thinking about15:52
SpamapSmchenetz: subordinate charms are just charms that live inside the same container as other charms15:53
mchenetzyeah.. aim a little familiar with how the charm structure works now. I am quickly getting up to speed.15:54
mchenetzI would love to help out on the security side if you guys need any assistance15:54
TheMueHmmm, funny, I can expose a wordpress w/o a mysql instance. I would have expected an error due to the not fulfilled requirement.15:58
SpamapSTheMue: the wordpress charm should not have any open port yet though16:00
SpamapSTheMue: open-port 80 should only happen after the db is configurd16:00
SpamapSTheMue: since the system is async.. its not an "error" .. you just don't get any open port16:01
koolhead11i am trying to deploy a charm and i need some assistance16:04
koolhead11i have moved the charm from /usr/share/doc/juju/oneiric directory16:04
koolhead11to my /home/juju directory16:04
SpamapShazmat: I'm still really confused why docs needs to be a separate series and why we can't just agree that the docs dir under the trunk has a different policy. I'm *very* concerned now that the docs will get out of sync w/ trunk.16:04
koolhead11when am trying  juju deploy --repository=/home/atul/juju  local:mysql16:05
TheMueSpamapS: I understand, and I should have had a debug-log open. *gna*16:05
koolhead11ERROR Charm 'local:oneiric/mysql' not found in repository /home/atul/juju16:06
SpamapSTheMue: I don't necessarily think that having debug-log going all the time is a good idea ;)16:06
SpamapSkoolhead11: you need the series in there16:07
SpamapSkoolhead11: mkdir /home/atul/juju/oneiric16:07
SpamapSkoolhead11: and move the charms into that dir16:07
koolhead11SpamapS: ok16:07
TheMueSpamapS: debug-hooks are better? I'm currently want to so what's going around.16:08
koolhead11so SpamapS my charm will be in /home/atul/juju/oneiric16:09
SpamapSTheMue: while developing and learning its probably a good idea.. I think though at some point we have to look at it as users of the charm, who won't necessarily be able to consume all of that data.16:09
koolhead11and i will deploy with16:09
SpamapSkoolhead11: right16:09
koolhead11juju deploy --repository=/home/atul/juju  local:mysql16:09
koolhead11ok16:09
SpamapSkoolhead11: that is necessary so that we can match the OS series with the charms for that OS16:10
mchenetzWhere do i find information on using a local provider in Juju?16:10
hazmatSpamapS, let's give it a try, we can evaluate before 12.04 if its not worthwhile and move it back, but i'm hoping its still a benefit to getting doc contributions16:11
SpamapShazmat: as long as we agree to actually put a version number on juju so the disconnected docs can be written to a specific version, it should work. I'm just not confident about that. ;)16:13
hazmatTheMue, there was a spec out for doing import / export of environments, but it ran afoul of want for a design of service groups aka stacks as a first class entity that was modeled and agreed upon.16:14
hazmatSpamapS, we call winners on that bet at uds ;-)16:14
=== amithkk is now known as sabsui12
=== sabsui12 is now known as sansui12
=== sansui12 is now known as amithkk
SpamapShazmat: we should maybe think about putting version strings in juju and having a release process now that we have, you know, users. ;)16:15
hazmatSpamapS, i should investigate read the docs some more. i know we tried moved on, but i believe it has support for multiple versions16:15
TheMuehazmat: thx for the info16:16
_mup_Bug #902219 was filed: config values of 0 are discarded <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/902219 >16:16
hazmatSpamapS, sounds good, would you mind putting in  a bug for that?16:16
mchenetzFound the doc: https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/provider-configuration-local.html, Doesn't survive reboots? That isn't good for my scenario as i stage development code in the local environment.16:17
hazmatmchenetz, it will survive reboots for 12.04, but no it doesn't survive reboots, or even hibernates at the moment.16:20
hazmatmchenetz, you'd also have to manually connect the bridge that the lxc containers are bound to allow external connectivity to them off the host.16:21
hazmator port forward from the host16:21
mchenetzokay. good to know. can i make a charm for that. :-)16:22
mchenetzWhat i would like to do is give developers a local environment to develop in and then move the units to the cloud for test an production.16:23
mchenetzWhich i think is the whole purpose of juju. Easily move and provision units.16:23
SpamapShazmat: this feels like a blueprint, there are really 3 things that need to happen. 1- add versions to the juju --help, 2- ratify and agree to maintain a stable branch. 3- Setup a PPA that just has the latest stable release.16:26
hazmatmchenetz, well.. when you say move.. its not moving the data, you can develop/stage local and the copy the configuration/charms to a different cloud, but that doesn't sync data.. you'd need a separate charm/service for data syncing, right now.. juju environments do not bridge clouds.16:26
hazmateach environment is specific to a provider, but you can have multiple environments in a given provider.16:27
SpamapSmchenetz: for what you're talking about.. you'd just repeat the local deployment into the cloud16:27
mchenetzI was thinking that i can utilize charms that would say, install mysql, and apache, and then create the relations for multiple environments. As long as i create charms that have the glue code then it should work. Correct?16:27
mchenetzAnd again… I am still learning Juju… I learn very fast, but if it sounds like a stupid question it's just that i haven't learned it all yet. :-)16:28
hazmatmchenetz, yes the charms are meant to capture the configuration/best practices for a service in a provider independent fashion16:29
SpamapSmchenetz: eventually there's the idea that we'd be able to create a relationship between two environments .. but thats not done yet. ;)16:29
hazmatmcclurmc, so you could deploy the same mysql/apache/appserver setup in multiple environments16:29
mchenetzSpamaps… That sound awesome16:29
marcoceppiSpamapS: I eagerly await that idea :)16:30
SpamapSmchenetz: its already possible.. you can write a cloud-bridge charm that exchanges anything you need to exchange between the two envs.. and just use service configs to get them talking to eachother.16:30
hazmatand even then you need an underlying setup that syncs data16:30
SpamapSI bet I could get the mysql charm to expose config settings to allow external slaves/masters16:31
hazmatwell maybe not it could just offer access, but wan connectivity solutions are better at a data tier16:31
mchenetzI don't mind creating, "glue" to connect disparate environments. I just need to know that limitations so that i implement things in the most efficient way.16:31
hazmatmarcoceppi, mchenetz so the first cut at gluing disseparate environments is a proxy charm that will relay notifications to a remote endpoint16:32
hazmatyou'd deploy a proxy service in each environment, bind it locally to the relations of interest, and then connect the proxy endpoints16:32
hazmatat least that's one option16:32
SpamapSI took a stab at making an 'othercloud' charm that would use the juju client to talk to another juju env but the lack of wildcard interfaces made it not work like I wanted.16:33
* hazmat nods16:33
hazmatSpamapS, it would need support in the core, for basically assuming the interfaces of the proxy target16:33
mchenetzhazmat: that makes sense… To me, it sounds like i would use ssh to create a tunnel between the envirnments16:33
marcoceppiSpamapS:  hazmat: I was under the impression that orchestra was preferred for stringing multiple clouds into one env?16:33
SpamapSreally.. if you want cross-cloud cross-AZ .. you probably want to make conscious decisions about what crosses those boundaries.16:33
mchenetzThen just run commands locally and remotely16:33
hazmatmcclurmc, any secure transport would work16:33
hazmatwhoops16:34
SpamapSmarcoceppi: that wouldn't really work. ;)16:34
hazmatmchenetz, i was thinking zeromq with encrypted messages would do it16:34
mchenetzI haven't used that. I will definitely look into it16:34
hazmatbut i'm very much thinking like an app developer ;-)16:34
SpamapShazmat: yeah, thats when I gave up on it, when I realized unless I can make relations dynamic it just won't work.16:34
mchenetzIt's interesting… I grew up as a hacker of code with bbs's in the early days and then became a network engineer. So, i think in terms of both code and network infrastructure. :-)16:35
SpamapShazmat:  I think an ops guy would be fine with that as long as it was simple to understand and monitor.16:35
SpamapSmchenetz: WWIV vs. Telegard ... GO16:36
mchenetzhehe, i ran rbis originally and then WWIV, good old wayne bell16:36
hazmatSpamapS, so this go further into a notion of charms that juju distributes and core services, given things like we could offer additional syntax for cross-env relations16:36
SpamapShazmat: yeah that would make sense.16:37
* SpamapS prepares for an Ubuntu bug triage rampage today16:39
mchenetzTo me, as long as you create the appropriate abstraction on the top level and the disparate environments have similar functionality then it really shouldn't matter what environment you are on...16:39
marcoceppiI guess I'm just confused about how to best tackle a scenario using Juju16:39
mchenetzthere should be the idea of move-unit [enironment]16:40
mchenetzand again.. i don't know juju that much yet...16:40
marcoceppiI have three bare metal machines, lets say, each running an acceptable provider by Juju - I assume each would be it's own juju environment then?16:41
marcoceppinevermind actually16:42
hazmatmchenetz, that assumes integrated volume management storage, even for just unit migration within an environment, and frankly at scale moving data across wans is a non transparent operation to QOS.16:42
hazmatits potentially a  huge impact on network resources, and a multi-day operation16:43
mchenetzhazmat: As long as the backend code accommodates the variables for that. Why would it matter? You can give the instructions for syncing code and throttling and so forth...16:43
mchenetzsyncing db's and such...16:44
mchenetzIt could say use-link [interface]  throttle [50%] of link or something like that16:44
mchenetzthis is all conceptual16:45
mchenetzIt could then set the proper qos tagging and such in the backend and setup the interface to use and maybe the timeframe16:45
hazmatmchenetz, move-unit is a generic capability to any service.. what a service/charm chooses to expose can be accomodated by something like a proxy without charm knowledge, or the functionality could be incorporated directly into a charm.16:46
hazmatmchenetz, more interesting though, juju right now is its infancy wrt to how it approaches networking.. i'm curious though what you would think of juju managing a soft overlay network that spanned machines16:46
mchenetzThat would be very interesting. So, are you talking about creating a networking abstraction that would be unrelated to a single machine?16:47
mchenetzCan you elaborate on what you are thinking?16:48
hazmatmchenetz, yes.. this is a while out most likely.. but the notion of getting unit density on a machine, where each unit is an lxc container,  to be abstract to a provider, we need to establish a soft overlay net that we'd plug the lxc containers into, probably with something like openvswitch or just using openstack's quantum16:49
hazmatpart of the problem is that we end up needing a bridge to reconnect the overlay, but the notion is for exposed services we would port forward16:50
hazmatit give us much better capabilties to expose in terms of setting up vlans etc16:50
hazmatbut its also a pita16:51
mchenetzhmmm… interesting.. You could potentially keep the environments networked permanently through the virtual switch and then exchange data and move things where they need to be. I like it… It doesn't seem like it would take too much either.16:51
mchenetzI will definitely have more to contribute in the upcoming weeks as i learn juju. It's definitely a project i would like to be involved in.16:58
mchenetzI am just ingesting all of the knowledge right now. :-)16:59
hazmatmchenetz, awesome, probably the best way to get introduced to juju is to write a charm or have a look at some existing ones.. http://charms.kapilt.com17:02
mchenetzI am planning on writing many charms and looking at existing ones. ;-)17:02
koolhead11hazmat: revision  and config.yaml   are compulsary files to be with a charm17:04
koolhead11?17:04
koolhead11i am learning writing juju with writing simplest charm which does things simply with apt-get isntall17:05
koolhead11*install17:05
koolhead11i moved mysql example in same directory and same part worked and charm got initialized17:06
hazmatkoolhead11, config.yaml isn't, revision is17:09
koolhead11hazmat: i am using the existing mysql example17:10
koolhead11and i see a file with name revision there17:10
koolhead11notthing mentioned about same in config.yaml file17:10
koolhead11so i created both files accordingly and created hooks sub directory inside it17:11
koolhead11added options: {} in config.yaml file17:12
koolhead11i am just clueless while this thing is not working :(17:13
hazmatkoolhead11, what do you mean by not working?17:14
hazmatcan you deploy your charm?17:14
koolhead11hazmat: i get error in deploying charm i wrote17:14
koolhead11hazmat: http://paste.ubuntu.com/765110/17:17
koolhead11i have created a directory inside example named "oneiric"17:18
koolhead11and put the charm for boa inside it17:18
koolhead11and executing juju deploy --repository=example local:boa17:18
koolhead11while my pwd is /home/atul17:18
hazmatkoolhead11, the path to boa should be /home/atul/example/oneiric/boa17:18
koolhead11hazmat: that is where boa is17:19
mchenetzI see some charm developers are using augeas to create/modify configs. This seems interesting. I never heard of that tool17:19
hazmatthat directory should contain the metadata.yaml file, if your using a recent ppa, and there's a syntax error in the charm, it should report it17:19
koolhead11i am using oneiric and installed default juju17:20
hazmatmchenetz, its a bit like a generic dom api for configuration, some folks prefer writing out the whole config, some prefer patching in place.17:20
koolhead11from repo rather PPA17:20
hazmatkoolhead11, so you are using the ppa?17:20
mchenetzIs there a standard you guys like in terms of directories? I notice the .aug files are in the root instead of the hooks directory...17:21
koolhead11hazmat: i have not added any PPA manually, installed juju which came with default17:21
koolhead11with oneiric17:21
mchenetzI really should read the documentation. :-)17:21
koolhead11hazmat: /home/atul/example/oneiric/boa   its very much here17:22
koolhead11and also i have metadata.yaml file there17:22
hazmatkoolhead11, then you probably have a yaml error17:23
hazmatkoolhead11, the ppa version will detect and report yaml errors, the default version in oneiric just won't find the charm17:24
koolhead11then why the error log says error in path17:24
koolhead11hazmat: point me to PPA am upgrading juju from there17:24
hazmatkoolhead11, sudo add-apt-repository ppa:juju/pkgs && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade juju17:26
koolhead11cool17:26
SpamapSkoolhead11: can you push your charm up to a branch on launchpad?17:27
koolhead11SpamapS: sure once am home.17:27
koolhead11catch u guys in sometime17:29
* koolhead11 rushes 4 home17:29
nijabaSpamapS: if you feel like reviewing a charm, feel free to take a look at my roundcube one ;)17:30
SpamapSnijaba: I have some other queues to tend to today (server bug triage and SRU's), but I won't be able to resist reviewing your charm all weekend. ;)17:31
SpamapSmarcoceppi: did you already have a look at it?17:31
nijabaSpamapS: he did17:31
SpamapSOh, so, what do you need me for? ;)17:31
nijabaSpamapS: to make it official? can't wait for your comments either, specially on the https handling17:32
SpamapSas the #4 contributor to lp:charm (see https://launchpad.net/charm) I'd say he's quite qualified to ack and promulgate it :)17:32
fwereade__I need to stop for a little while, back later17:33
SpamapSI've actually wanted roundcube for some time as I plan to replace my crappy hastymail solution with it. :)17:33
nijabaSpamapS: he said he would feel more confortable with you reviwing it first.  He might need some re-assurance :)17:34
mchenetzI know this is a matter of opinion but… I have been using Eucalyptus for a long time because it is API compliant with Amazon EC2. Is there any advantage to going over to openstack? Anything from a juju side?17:34
SpamapSnijaba: roger that. I'll take a loko between ubuntu bugs and SRU's ;)17:34
nijabaSpamapS: no hurrry. cheers17:34
SpamapSmchenetz: Euca is very expensive to scale up17:34
mchenetzspamaps: I always hear that17:35
SpamapSmchenetz: if you have a working euca solution with a narrow focus, probably best to just stick with it.17:35
nijabamchenetz: and hard to make HA (if posisble)17:35
mchenetzI am definitely thinking about scalability for my customers. I think i am going to have to look at openstack...17:35
mchenetzI think i will keep my dev in Eucalyptus17:36
nijabamchenetz: the fact that more and more provider are announcing public cloud based on OpenStack feel very re-assuring17:36
SpamapSmchenetz: OpenStack is also more loosely coupled.. I find that attractive.17:37
mchenetzI will definitely have to put it on my agenda to get familiar with Openstack...17:37
SpamapSrobbiew: hey how did your BOF go?17:37
mchenetzThanks for the comments17:37
robbiewSpamapS: was great..attendance was so-so...but the BoFs started at 8pm17:37
robbiewafter dinner17:38
robbiewluckily mine was BEFORE Google's beer and "icecream" social17:38
robbiew:P17:38
robbiewwe should definitely have a Charm School at the next year's17:38
robbiewTOTALLY our crowd here17:38
robbiewand next year will be in San Diego...not Boston.17:38
mchenetzAny plans on a east coast charm school? I live close to Philly and about an 1hr from NY17:39
robbiewmchenetz: jcastro is the man with the plan on Charm Schools...I would expect we'd have one though17:39
robbiewwe'd prefer it to be tied to some sort of pre-existing event though....the ones on IRC are pretty good too ;)17:40
mchenetzI would have to get in touch with him. I don't think i saw one when i looked17:40
mchenetzThere's irc ones?17:40
SpamapSrobbiew: *w00t*17:41
SpamapSmchenetz: I'd hope we can co-locate a charm school with Surge17:41
SpamapSmchenetz: we plan to have a charm school every couple of months on IRC17:42
mchenetzSpamapS: cool…. sounds good17:42
marcoceppiSpamapS: Cool, wasn't sure if you wanted to a two person review or not :)17:43
marcoceppinijaba: I'll take a look at the SSL implementation and promulgate it after lunch :)17:44
SpamapSmarcoceppi: only if you feel like you aren't 100% sure its ok17:44
marcoceppiSpamapS: gotchya, cool17:44
nijabamarcoceppi: thanks :)17:47
robbiewSpamapS: I did a local deployment of ThinkUp to demo the LXC stuff...worked perfectly17:55
robbiewthen I showed them a real ec2 deployment of the same thing...already running to compare17:55
robbiewthen I blew both away...and then did a live hadoop ec2 deployment17:55
robbiewran terrasort...and scaled it live17:55
robbiewBAM!17:55
rogi'm off for the weekend now. see y'all tuesday (i'm off monday)17:56
robbiewhad ganglia setup with auto-refresh plugin for chrome browser17:56
robbieweveryone was really impressed...and they GOT it, b/c this crowd knows their shit17:56
hazmatrobbiew, nice17:57
hazmatrog, cheers17:57
nijabarobbiew: impressive!17:57
nijabawelcome home, koolhead17 ;)17:57
robbiewthen I told them I learned all this on Tuesday17:57
robbiew:)17:57
koolhead17hehe nijaba:)17:57
robbiewthough I've obviously known HOW to do it for quite sometime...but never got my hands "dirty" until this week17:58
nijabarog: have a good long we17:58
robbiewI've found juju to be a bit addictive...like, "what can I deploy now?"17:58
nijabarobbiew: tell me about it.  I'm finding myself asking what else can I charm :D17:59
robbiewthis whole juju thing just *might* have legs18:00
robbiewlol18:01
SpamapSrobbiew: \o/ .. sounds awesome18:01
robbiewSpamapS: yeah...LISA'12 is going on my "give them money and love" list for next year18:02
SpamapSrobbiew: we should write a script that just deploys the entire charm store on t1.micro's and relates everything that can be related18:02
SpamapSRight now that would be like, 40 t1.micro's .. so it would cost about $1.18:02
robbiewlol18:02
robbiewone charm to rule them all!18:02
SpamapSjuju deploy *18:03
robbiewoh man18:03
robbiewyou'd have to script the relations though18:03
robbiewor just talking about deploying only18:03
SpamapSyeah18:04
SpamapS1 haproxy would not actually be able to serve every website, unfortunately18:04
robbiewheh18:05
marcoceppiJuju was great, until I got my Amazon bill :P18:05
SpamapShaproxy is a "monogamous" charm.18:05
SpamapSmarcoceppi: LOL!18:05
SpamapSmarcoceppi: thsi is all an evil plan to get people to setup openstack clouds18:06
marcoceppiSpamapS: I'm seriously considering setting up an openstack cloud at my house18:06
* koolhead17 searching 2 two mintues bzr guide18:11
jelmerkoolhead17: how about 5 minutes? http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/mini-tutorial/18:12
koolhead17jelmer: 3 mins is ok :) thanks18:12
koolhead17jelmer: am on LTS so all this command will work for it too. :)18:13
mchenetzSpamapS: I plan to have an Openstack server running at my house this weekend. ;-)18:13
koolhead17LTS lucid18:14
robbiewmchenetz: nice!18:15
EvilBillI'm itching for more info on deploying openstack with juju.18:15
robbiewfwiw, we're making sure openstack is easily deployable from the installer in 12.0418:15
robbiewEvilBill: talk to adam_g :)18:15
EvilBillI will. Played with juju about three weeks ago when I was between gigs, dug it a lot, but curious as to why the bootstrap node can't co-exist with where the juju client is running.18:16
EvilBillor maybe I'm just conceptually missing something.18:16
EvilBillI was trying to multitask between spending time with the family and learning something new, and I think I didn't do either thing very well.18:17
robbiewfamily? what's that?18:17
EvilBilllol18:17
SpamapSEvilBill: the bootstrap is really just ZooKeeper + the provisioning agent. It can't live with the client because clients can come and go (laptops.. workstations, etc)18:19
EvilBillOK, well, what I did was setup an orchestra server and had it working with two other machines at home with wake-on-lan, etc.18:19
EvilBillso Orchestra would rev up a bare-metal box on command18:19
EvilBilltied that into juju, and when I'd do a juju bootstrap, a machine would turn on and go install and become the bootstrap node18:20
SpamapSEvilBill: You *can* make the bootstrap node a VM on the orchestra server18:20
EvilBillbut it sounds like a full machine JUST for bootstrapping seems silly.18:20
EvilBillThat's what I didn't get around to playing with or figuring out18:20
SpamapSEvilBill: we even talked about having that be the default at one point.18:20
SpamapSEvilBill: its fairly simple to provision VMs in cobbler just like regular machines.18:21
EvilBillok, so that begs the next question, what's the preferred VM framework?18:21
EvilBillmy orchestra machine is an old laptop with a Core Duo, so it's not 64-bit capable.18:22
EvilBillwhich means I don't think it'll run KVM.18:22
marcoceppiI'd like to get a public openstack cloud open for charm testing and development against, but I feel that might be something for next year18:24
SpamapSEvilBill: 'kvm-ok' will tell you that18:30
SpamapSEvilBill: you *could*, in theory, have it provision an LXC container, but you'd have to figure out how to run the "late_command" bit to get juju to start its agents.18:31
SpamapSEvilBill: it might also be possible to simply have the cobbler machine register *itself* as a cobbler system, and then do the same thing.18:31
SpamapSmarcoceppi: we've talked about having an openstack cloud which we make available to ubuntu members who want to work on bugs/testing18:32
marcoceppiSpamapS: I think it's a cool idea18:32
marcoceppiLimit it to charm-contributors even18:33
marcoceppi?18:33
koolhead17EvilBill: i think there is a wiki which spells charm magic 4 openstack deployment allready!! :D18:35
SpamapSmarcoceppi: I'd like to see it open to even those who are not interested in juju.18:35
marcoceppiSpamapS: so would this just be a free cloud for anyone to play in?18:36
SpamapSmarcoceppi: I think we'd require ubuntu membership and have a limited number of seats available18:36
marcoceppiI see18:36
adam_ghttp://wiki.openstack.org/FreeCloud18:38
adam_g^^ not sure what the status of that is ATM, tho18:38
koolhead17SpamapS: https://code.launchpad.net/~koolhead17/charm/oneiric/boa/trunk18:47
koolhead17hope you will not laugh, as it has notthing magical18:47
koolhead17made it to understand juju better :)18:47
SpamapSadam_g: *nice* I didn't know it had even been written down like that. :)18:49
SpamapSkoolhead17: thats fine. It should work.. its not clear at all to me why its not working. :-/18:57
koolhead17SpamapS: hehe. i would love to see if someone tests it on AWS18:58
koolhead17i have no idea why i was getting the error i mentioned earlier on LXC18:58
koolhead17i created a directory name example/oneiric/boa*18:59
koolhead17and repository = /home/atul/example18:59
koolhead17:P18:59
koolhead17i moved mysql charm from the examples directory to that path it worked but not the boa one19:00
SpamapSkoolhead17: ls -l /home/atul/example/oneiric19:05
koolhead17it will have boa and mysql directory )19:06
koolhead17SpamapS: am home now siir!!19:06
SpamapSkoolhead17: so.. um, you can't test at home, but you can't push to bzr at work? :-/19:07
SpamapSkoolhead17: you should be using the local provider at home19:07
koolhead17SpamapS: i tried juju formula writing on LXC at work, synced it to my home computer and then pushed it to bzr once i came home19:08
koolhead17i will install Oneiric tomorrow19:09
koolhead17its been in list for ages, :D19:09
* koolhead17 is addicted to LTS19:09
SpamapSkoolhead17: yeah, LXC isn't quite usable in 10.04 unfortunately19:24
koolhead17SpamapS: honestly am waiting 4 precious b4 i can format my poor lappy, that is why i do all charming stuff in office :P19:24
koolhead172 GB baby19:25
mplniemeyer: I think I've got something going for zk + ssh. but it's still very messy so I'm gonna clean it up before showing it to you guys.19:27
niemeyermpl: Ohh, sweet19:27
mplgonna go home, dinner, and rest a bit first though. ttyl19:28
marcoceppiI can't find config-changed anywhere in the hooks documentation20:25
hazmatmarcoceppi, yeah.. that's a problem.. its in a separate document on service config20:29
hazmati just started to pull the docs into a separate branch to hopefully facilitate making them easier to contribute to.. there at the bzr branch lp:juju/docs20:30
marcoceppiAh, cool - thanks for the heads up hazmat20:31
hazmatmarcoceppi, re the config-hook docs atm https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/drafts/service-config.html#creating-charms20:31
marcoceppiAfter a charm is reviewed and deemed needs more work, should I just remove the new-charm tag?20:39
_mup_juju/ssh-known_hosts r431 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com20:44
_mup_Refactored20:44
_mup_juju/ssh-known_hosts r432 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com20:46
_mup_Merged trunk20:46
nijabamarcoceppi: just put the bug bag to state incomplete20:47
nijabamarcoceppi: once the problem are addressed, the requester will put it back to state "fix-comited"20:49
* nijaba takes off. Have fun20:53
EvilBillSpamapS: Coming back after a lengthy meeting… you could get cobbler to register itself? Hm, that's an idea, but I wouldn't want it to try to PXE boot itself...20:54
koolhead17bye nijaba21:07
_mup_juju/ssh-known_hosts r433 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com21:40
_mup_Simplify by keeping public keys in ProviderMachine itself21:40
_mup_juju/ssh-known_hosts r434 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com21:41
_mup_Refactored bootstrap21:41
_mup_juju/ssh-known_hosts r435 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com22:12
_mup_Fix error handling for refactored bootstrap22:12
_mup_Bug #902384 was filed: Service units get stuck in debug mode. <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/902384 >23:26
SpamapSEvilBill: no you wouldn't pxeboot it .. you'd just run the final "late command" that juju sticks into the pre-seed23:43

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