| ScottK | The rest of 4.7.4 is going into staging now. | 01:33 |
|---|---|---|
| === ScottK changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Cookies for Everyone! | 11.10 Released! | Merges: http://pad.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-precise-merges | 4.7.80 : https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/Packaging (4.7.4 done) | http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-kubuntu.html TODOs! | ||
| ScottK | All uploaded. Now let's see how it goes .... | 01:53 |
| === zkriesse is now known as zkriesse_away | ||
| Mamarok | hm, an update for KDE 4.7.3 but no 4.7.4? | 08:13 |
| ScottK | Mamarok: 4.7.4 is in progress for the updates PPA. | 10:29 |
| Mamarok | ScottK: OK, I was just wondering why I had almost 400 package updates for 4.7.3 | 10:30 |
| ScottK | I uploaded all of 4.7.3 on Friday for oneiric-proposed. We'll get 4.7.4 in too once it's tested a bit. | 10:31 |
| who_me | guys, is there any chance that some updates will make it in some future ppa release ? For some days there's been work done on the annoying bug #258916 (polkit crashes on shutdown/reboot) and now there is a patch that fixes it | 10:31 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 258916 in Inkscape "Bitmap-type print to printer and preview produces low resolution output" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258916 | 10:31 |
| ScottK | who_me: #ubuntu-desktop is a better channel to ask about that one since it's not a KDE package. | 10:32 |
| who_me | http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258916 < -not a KDE bug ? | 10:35 |
| ubottu | KDE bug 258916 in polkit-kde-authentication-agent-1 "PolicyKit1-KDE (polkit-kde-authentication-agent-1) crash on shutdown [g_type_check_instance_is_a, g_object_unref, , PolkitQt1::Agent::Session::Private::~Private]" [Crash,Resolved: fixed] | 10:35 |
| jussi | who_me: but is the root cause in polkit or in the kde part?? | 10:39 |
| who_me | it seems it was on the kde part, since the kde dev fixed the crash | 10:40 |
| ScottK | Ah. | 10:41 |
| ScottK | That's a bit different. | 10:41 |
| ScottK | jussi: That's KDE support, so it's ours to take care of. | 10:42 |
| jussi | ok :) | 10:42 |
| ScottK | who_me: I think we should do an update for that, not sure when it'll get done though. | 10:42 |
| who_me | sweet, I'm just happy it's fixed | 10:45 |
| === Riddelll is now known as Riddell | ||
| Riddell | Darkwing: did you come up with anything for the LTS proposal? | 12:11 |
| agateau | ScottK: hi, I think I fixed all your requests regarding the massif-visualizer package, can you have a look at it today? | 12:14 |
| debfx | could someone please verify the amarok SRU: bug #854030 | 12:17 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 854030 in amarok (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Amarok uses 100% CPU until the window is shown" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854030 | 12:17 |
| Riddell | debfx: groovy, tests good | 13:18 |
| debfx | Riddell: thanks :) | 13:29 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: Probably. | 13:32 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: Neverming | 13:32 |
| ScottK | agateau: Probably. | 13:33 |
| apachelogger | magic | 13:37 |
| agateau | Riddell: hi! just tried to build Konversation on Precise: it failed to find indicate-qt until I installed pkg-config. I guess the package is missing a build-dep on pkg-config. | 13:39 |
| * apachelogger rolls eyes | 13:46 | |
| apachelogger | agateau: couldn't indicate-qt provide a cmake config? | 13:46 |
| agateau | apachelogger: it could, but it would just use pkg-config... | 13:48 |
| apachelogger | why? | 13:48 |
| apachelogger | you just need to throw the same info you throw into the pkgconfig file into the cmake config | 13:49 |
| Riddell | agateau: konversation is? bit it just built fine on precise | 13:49 |
| agateau | apachelogger: a more appropriate fix would be for cmake to actually fail when one says "find_package(PkgConfig REQUIRED)" and pkg-config is not installed | 13:49 |
| apachelogger | that too ^^ | 13:49 |
| Riddell | s/bit/but/ | 13:50 |
| agateau | Riddell: you asked me last week to have a look at why konversation did not build with indicate-qt support | 13:51 |
| agateau | Riddell: it builds, just without indicate-qt support | 13:51 |
| Riddell | agateau: oh yes, see you have to be slow with me and my concussion | 13:55 |
| agateau | Riddell: no problem | 13:56 |
| kio_http | Hi, sorry for bothering but I was wondering if there are plans for 4.7.4 updates? | 13:57 |
| Riddell | kio_http: yes, should be in some PPA for testing | 13:59 |
| agateau | Riddell: many lib*-dev which provide a pkg-config .pc file depends on pkg-config, so maybe the fix should be to add that dependency to libindicate-qt-dev? | 14:00 |
| Riddell | agateau: yes that seems like a good idea | 14:00 |
| kio_http | Riddell: Thanks on a side note Amarok uses high CPU until the window is restored in 4.7.3 will that be fixed with updates | 14:00 |
| Riddell | kio_http: just needs testers, https://launchpad.net/bugs/854030 | 14:01 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 854030 in amarok (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Amarok uses 100% CPU until the window is shown" [Undecided,Fix committed] | 14:01 |
| agateau | Riddell: I am looking into it then | 14:01 |
| apachelogger | agateau, Riddell: technically speaking that is utterly wrong | 14:09 |
| apachelogger | they do not depend on it, they do not even recommend it, they might suggest it, but that doesn't help at all | 14:10 |
| agateau | apachelogger: I don't like it much either, but it seems to be the common way | 14:10 |
| apachelogger | bloody workaround(tm) :P | 14:10 |
| apachelogger | phonon would need to depend on cmake, qmake and pkgconfig :S | 14:11 |
| agateau | heh | 14:11 |
| agateau | so let's fix Konversation build-dep instead | 14:11 |
| * agateau does this | 14:11 | |
| * agateau foresees himself fixing all packages depending on libindicate-qt... | 14:13 | |
| apachelogger | unlikely, usually some package in the dep tree drags in pkgconfig, which is probably why konvi built earlier | 14:18 |
| apachelogger | debfx: we totally should make magic to inject builddeps based on cmake deps ^^ | 14:18 |
| agateau | Riddell: Konversation vcs-bzr url does not work for me. it starts with "bzr+ssh://bazaar.". If I replace this part with "https://code." it works. Is this correct? | 14:29 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: Could you do the l10n magic and upload l10n for 4.7.4 to the staging PPA? | 14:29 |
| apachelogger | don't we usually upload to the updates ppa? | 14:30 |
| apachelogger | and for what series? ^^ | 14:30 |
| debfx | apachelogger: as in control file pre-processing? | 14:31 |
| apachelogger | yes | 14:31 |
| debfx | that's a terrible idea :P | 14:31 |
| apachelogger | why? | 14:31 |
| Riddell | agateau: how about bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kubuntu-packagers/konversation ? | 14:32 |
| agateau | Riddell: mmm, actually the bzr branch is outdated, it still packages Konversation 1.3 :/ | 14:32 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: We upload to staging and then copy to updates | 14:32 |
| Riddell | or bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packagers/konversation | 14:32 |
| apachelogger | ScottK: ok, what series? | 14:33 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: oneiric | 14:33 |
| agateau | Riddell: they are not branches | 14:33 |
| agateau | Riddell: https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/konversation works but is for 1.3 | 14:34 |
| ScottK | Hey, with the new soprano and the KDE 4.7.3 I started Akonadi and my system didn't immediately become slow. | 14:34 |
| Riddell | agateau: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/konversation works now for me | 14:34 |
| Riddell | and is for 1.3 | 14:34 |
| ScottK | bzr+ssh only works is you have write access to the branch. | 14:34 |
| ScottK | is/if | 14:34 |
| ScottK | (IIRC) | 14:35 |
| Riddell | hmm | 14:35 |
| Riddell | maybe we should use lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/konversation | 14:35 |
| * ScottK wonders if he dares fire up kmail now. | 14:35 | |
| debfx | apachelogger: because having control.in is always a mess. e.g. I can guarantee that many times someone will update control instead | 14:35 |
| agateau | Riddell: it works now :/ | 14:35 |
| * agateau is confused | 14:35 | |
| apachelogger | debfx: why yes, stupid dpkg needs to be fixed to allow macros in builddep | 14:36 |
| Riddell | agateau: code.launchpad.net just forwards to the right URL when used with bzr | 14:37 |
| debfx | I'm sure one day we'll get executable control files ;) | 14:37 |
| Riddell | bzr+ssh://bazaar. is the right URL for those with write access, http://bazaar. otherwise | 14:37 |
| agateau | Riddell: so it's weird it didn't work before for me. Did you change something, like giving me write access? | 14:38 |
| Riddell | agateau: no I think it was a glitch in the launchpad | 14:38 |
| agateau | Riddell: ok :/ | 14:38 |
| apachelogger | yofel_: ping | 14:38 |
| agateau | Riddell: still, shouldn't we expose an url which works for most people rather than only those with write access? | 14:38 |
| Riddell | agateau: that's why we should consider using lp: | 14:39 |
| agateau | Riddell: ah right | 14:39 |
| agateau | Riddell: anyway, can you push the 1.4 changes in the branch? | 14:41 |
| Riddell | ok | 14:41 |
| Riddell | agateau: done | 14:46 |
| agateau | Riddell: thanks | 14:47 |
| yofel_ | apachelogger: pong | 14:48 |
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| yofel | apachelogger: l10n? | 14:49 |
| debfx | wow nepomuk is still broken, eats 50% cpu for around 5 minutes on a fresh precise installation | 14:52 |
| debfx | even though indexing is turned off | 14:52 |
| apachelogger | yofel: why be there common-natty-archive but common-oneiric? | 14:55 |
| yofel | huh? | 14:56 |
| apachelogger | repos | 14:56 |
| yofel | didn't ScottK invent -archive for the 4.6.5 SRU? | 14:57 |
| apachelogger | I dunno | 14:57 |
| ScottK | Don't think so. | 14:57 |
| yofel | because common-natty already had the 4.7 backports | 14:57 |
| ScottK | Shouldn't it have just been updates for 4.6.x and backports for 4.7 on natty? | 14:58 |
| yofel | actually that branch was created by apachelogger | 15:00 |
| apachelogger | lol | 15:00 |
| apachelogger | but I think your thought there was right | 15:01 |
| apachelogger | archive was to deploy stable updates to archive | 15:01 |
| apachelogger | whereas the non archive is for ppa | 15:01 |
| apachelogger | i.e. for natty that became 4.7 | 15:01 |
| * Riddell puts calligra beta 5 into ppa:kubuntu-ppa/beta for oneiric | 15:03 | |
| debfx | apachelogger: isn't this phonon patch upstreamable? http://paste.kde.org/158162/ | 15:04 |
| apachelogger | I dont even understand that patch | 15:05 |
| debfx | it avoid setting an rpath if phonon is installed to a system library dir | 15:09 |
| debfx | but it needs some changes to work with cmake 2.6 | 15:09 |
| apachelogger | phonon sets an rpath if installed to /usr/lib? :O | 15:10 |
| debfx | yes | 15:10 |
| kio_http | @kvl We could probably get packages to OpenSuse and Arch when we complete it. Ubuntu users will have to use the .gz as I don't know how to get packages in there + I have no idea how .debs work. But that's too much to worry for know. By the time we complete kde 5 will be out and this thing will need re porting. | 15:19 |
| kio_http | Oops wrong channel sorry | 15:19 |
| Riddell | are we willing to test 12.04.x update releases? | 15:24 |
| Riddell | I think it was mostly ScottK who tested 10.04.x update releases | 15:24 |
| ScottK | Yes. | 15:24 |
| ScottK | We should do 5 year LTS since it's exactly no more work for us than 3. | 15:25 |
| Riddell | I'm working on the proposal | 15:25 |
| ScottK | Great. | 15:25 |
| Riddell | debfx: did the 1.5GB DVD image discussion come to a conclusion? | 15:27 |
| === zkriesse_away is now known as zkriesse | ||
| Riddell | (I don't feel well enough to be part of heavey discussions yet) | 15:27 |
| Riddell | agateau: could I put you down as my backup "will be responsive to canonical support requets" person? | 15:31 |
| Riddell | just incase I get hit by a bus (or French car) | 15:31 |
| agateau | Riddell: sure, to the limits of my knowledge | 15:32 |
| agateau | Riddell: not that I will be on vacation soon though | 15:32 |
| * agateau is a lazy french guy | 15:32 | |
| debfx | Riddell: well none of the kubuntu devs really participated in the firefox discussion. the question is if firefox is good enough for us even without the kde integration. | 15:33 |
| debfx | though it might be worth shrinking the dvd even if we stick with rekonq | 15:34 |
| agateau | i guess it's all about priorities: "well integrated" vs "works with almost all websites" | 15:34 |
| * agateau uses firefox | 15:34 | |
| ScottK | debfx: I think "without KDE integration" is a very different question. That wasn't clear (at least to me) during the discussion. | 15:36 |
| ScottK | Did anyone do the analysis to see how much more room it would take? | 15:36 |
| debfx | ScottK: it wasn't clear to me either | 15:36 |
| * maco uses chromium mostly and firefox a little | 15:38 | |
| maco | (chromium's faster, but my company's software theoretically doesn't support it) | 15:38 |
| ScottK | BTW, I'm not uploading 4.7.4 to precise on the assumption the the 4.8 beta will go in before we're ready to put 4.7.4 in oneiric-proposed | 15:39 |
| debfx | ScottK: I think about 18MB | 15:39 |
| ScottK | I think there's a good chance we could get that even on the CD. | 15:40 |
| debfx | how? the cd is already oversized without any language pack | 15:42 |
| debfx | the lack of supported language is imho another big problem of our cd image | 15:42 |
| kio_http | FYI Firefox has experimental QT builds that work better than rekonq in my opinion. They plan to be considered stable in a year | 15:47 |
| agateau | kio_http: do you have any url for that plan? | 15:51 |
| kio_http | agateau: Let me check I remember reading it somewhere | 15:51 |
| kio_http | agateau: But the is was not a 100% confirmed thing | 15:52 |
| kio_http | agateau: Sorry can't find it ... the discussion was about making it for MeeGo mostly | 15:53 |
| ScottK | kio_http: We've got FF with KDE support patches now, but with FF new rapid release model, the patches aren't supportable anymore. | 16:05 |
| kio_http | ScottK: You could also do things like Windows does in Europe .. a browser choice screen with a pros and cons of each that the user selects. (if someone is using a browser he/she most likely has an internet connection) | 16:06 |
| agateau | Riddell: pushed a new version of Konversation on lp:~kubuntu-packagers/(...) can you upload it? | 16:12 |
| jussi | On the DVD/USB/CD image debate, how would we be providing a "Kubuntu Essentials CD" and a supported, default USB/DVD image? so CD for the legacy/quick installs and DVD/USB for the whole experience - which would be default? | 16:17 |
| Riddell | jussi: in that scenario I imagine a KDE pure CD for the KDE purists like me and an expanded DVD/USB image with libreoffice and firefox | 16:18 |
| jussi | Riddell: that would make sense to me. | 16:20 |
| jussi | is kde small enough for that? | 16:20 |
| Riddell | agateau: done | 16:21 |
| agateau | Riddell: thanks! | 16:21 |
| Riddell | jussi: well it would be smaller than what we have at the moment which includes libreoffice | 16:21 |
| jussi | ok. | 16:22 |
| debfx | so without kde patches the firefox open/save dialogs are crap | 16:26 |
| debfx | other than that I don't see a difference | 16:26 |
| debfx | if only chromium was in main ... | 16:27 |
| Riddell | debfx: lack KDE notification integration (when download complete) | 16:30 |
| Riddell | agateau: is Global Menu upstream in Qt or still in progress? | 16:30 |
| agateau | Riddell: the patch is in 4.8 | 16:30 |
| agateau | Riddell: it is only the part which makes it possible to replace the menubar implementation with a plugin, | 16:31 |
| agateau | Riddell: the code for the plugin itself remains on launchpad | 16:31 |
| Riddell | agateau: and what is the name of your KDE Notify-OSD Supporter? | 16:31 |
| agateau | Riddell: colibri? | 16:31 |
| Riddell | that's the one | 16:32 |
| debfx | Riddell: hm right, but how does the download notification work on ubuntu? | 16:33 |
| Riddell | debfx: that I don't know | 16:39 |
| Riddell | how's this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal | 17:14 |
| apachelogger | kde svn 1266985 | 17:21 |
| ubottu | http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/?rev=1266985&view=rev | svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk -r 1266985 | 17:21 |
| apachelogger | ubottu: hello! | 17:22 |
| ubottu | Sorry, I don't know anything about hello! | 17:22 |
| apachelogger | ubottu: not the fastest today, hu? | 17:22 |
| ubottu | apachelogger: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) | 17:22 |
| ScottK | Riddell: You might not want to highlight libmsn as an example of a successful update since we're in the middle of a second SRU to fix the first one. | 17:36 |
| ScottK | Riddell: I fixed one left over Edubuntu that shouldn't have been there. Other than maybe a different example than libmsn, I think it's good. | 17:39 |
| ScottK | debfx: Turns out it's easy to save gobs of space (see kubuntu-devel ML) | 19:05 |
| debfx | ScottK: replacing applications with smaller, inferior ones is of course always possible. however that doesn't mean it's a good choice. | 19:07 |
| ScottK | debfx: I guess I left the smiley off my comment ... | 19:07 |
| ScottK | I agree with you. | 19:08 |
| debfx | ah right :) | 19:08 |
| debfx | sorry | 19:08 |
| debfx | this Luca Tringali really needs to start using a proper MUA | 19:09 |
| apachelogger | >>> apt-cache show kate | grep Size | 19:09 |
| apachelogger | Installed-Size: 2972 | 19:09 |
| apachelogger | that kate size does nto replicate here | 19:10 |
| apachelogger | and kfi is like 3kb or something :S | 19:10 |
| apachelogger | switching to calligra would start a catfight with upstream | 19:10 |
| apachelogger | also FWIW | 19:10 |
| apachelogger | uncompressed data is next to useless | 19:10 |
| apachelogger | as the cd images are lzma'd | 19:11 |
| debfx | it's gzipped afaik but yeah | 19:11 |
| apachelogger | not live | 19:11 |
| apachelogger | it's lzma | 19:11 |
| apachelogger | the entire squasfs | 19:11 |
| apachelogger | at least it still was when I was investigating compression techniques 2 years ago | 19:12 |
| apachelogger | (I doubt they'd regress from lzma to gzip for ubuntu and survive without throwing half the python stuff off the image :P) | 19:12 |
| apachelogger | I do agree with Glenn on the need of a cleanup | 19:13 |
| * apachelogger thinks we have too much rubbish on the CD really | 19:13 | |
| apachelogger | and running by default | 19:13 |
| apachelogger | but I am a blackbox lover | 19:13 |
| debfx | apachelogger: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-foundations-n-squashfs-lzma-redux | 19:15 |
| debfx | so I don't think lzma is used atm | 19:16 |
| apachelogger | The kernel now has LZMA support. We need to check to see if squashfs-lzma makes rsync cry. | 19:17 |
| apachelogger | rsync?! | 19:17 |
| apachelogger | Oo | 19:17 |
| apachelogger | this does not even make sense :O | 19:17 |
| debfx | I don't think there are many applications that we can get rid of except ktorrent | 19:20 |
| apachelogger | depends on why you want to remove them | 19:21 |
| ScottK | The reason ktorrent is there is because torrent is one of our distribution methods. | 19:22 |
| ScottK | No ktorrent and then fewer torrent download and more direct downloads in the future. | 19:22 |
| apachelogger | drop ktorrent, include kget | 19:22 |
| apachelogger | ktorrent does not suite the distribution use case as it is way too complicated | 19:22 |
| apachelogger | ScottK: FWIW, I do not think there are that many users of torrents for kubuntu downloads | 19:23 |
| apachelogger | the download mirrors are pretty fast and reliable | 19:24 |
| ScottK | Dunno. I know there are a lot of seeds people put it. | 19:24 |
| ScottK | it/up | 19:24 |
| apachelogger | well, there certainly are some :P | 19:25 |
| apachelogger | anywho | 19:25 |
| debfx | hm kget is bigger than ktorrent | 19:25 |
| apachelogger | I do not think this use case is any reason to put software on the CD | 19:26 |
| apachelogger | debfx: also more usable | 19:26 |
| Riddell | kget also messes up normal KDE download methods | 19:26 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: we can fiddle with that | 19:26 |
| * ScottK agrees with Riddell | 19:26 | |
| apachelogger | point being | 19:26 |
| debfx | I'd just get rid of ktorrent and not replace it with anything | 19:26 |
| ScottK | Kget should get itself gone. | 19:26 |
| apachelogger | ktorrent is so insanely ugly it makes me wanna throw up regularly | 19:26 |
| apachelogger | also completely random icon and default UI | 19:27 |
| apachelogger | I have seen people who know what torrents were struggle with this app | 19:27 |
| apachelogger | debfx: ack | 19:27 |
| * apachelogger doesnt see use for torrent client by default | 19:27 | |
| apachelogger | particularly since it takes like 5 seconds to get one installed | 19:27 |
| ScottK | Providing it in the default install gives thousands of young Kubuntu users an excuse why the have torrent apps installed when asked by their parents, schools, law enforcement, etc. | 19:27 |
| apachelogger | and from what I have seen people tend to be very opinionated about which torrent client to use ^^ | 19:28 |
| ScottK | Much like web browsers. | 19:28 |
| apachelogger | yep | 19:28 |
| apachelogger | or IDEs for that matter | 19:28 |
| debfx | the difference is that we need to ship a browser | 19:29 |
| who_me | would qbittorrent be a better suited replacement ? it does have a nice gui than ktorrent. or transmission-qt, but it does not really integrate with kde style apps | 19:39 |
| debfx | well I don't think we need a torrent client | 19:41 |
| who_me | fair enough, if anyone needs one they can apt-get install one or search with synaptic or muon... ok, muon can't really search much atm. | 19:43 |
| debfx | muon can't search? | 19:45 |
| debfx | ah, crashes | 19:46 |
| who_me | sometimes it finds stuff , sometimes it does not, try searching for "polkit" in muon, then try it with synaptic | 19:48 |
| Riddell | searching for polkit works in Muon Package Manager | 19:49 |
| who_me | but not with the software center | 19:49 |
| Riddell | well no, polkit isn't user faced software | 19:50 |
| Riddell | and actually it does return "muon" itself since it's in that description :) | 19:50 |
| debfx | dropping rekonq, ktorrent and amarok would be ~enough space for firefox | 19:51 |
| debfx | or we drop LO from the cd | 19:52 |
| debfx | Riddell: kubuntu-docs contains many translations that are very incomplete | 20:12 |
| jjesse | debfx, not many people translate kubuntu-docs, there are only 2 of us that write them, no idea how many people actually translate them | 20:13 |
| debfx | jjesse: I guess we need some statistics how many strings each translation covers so we can only include the ones that reach a certain percentage. | 20:15 |
| jjesse | would that help get more translations? IE I noticed my install only had the English Kubuntu-Docs instead of localized to my language | 20:16 |
| debfx | of course not, but it would help conserving space and not shipping incomplete translations | 20:17 |
| jjesse | bummer | 20:18 |
| jjesse | yay for saving space though | 20:18 |
| Riddell | debfx: kubuntu-docs 1.10ubuntu2 is 6.8 MiB vs 11.10ubuntu1 without translations at 2.7 MiB | 20:26 |
| Riddell | kubuntu with firefox in place of amarok would be doubly disappointing for me | 20:26 |
| ScottK | Riddell: We need a supportable plan for a Qt webkit based browser or go back to Konqueror then. The lack of upstream security support for QT webkit will make it a pretty tough sell. | 20:28 |
| Riddell | 1/2 an hour until tech board meeting | 20:28 |
| ScottK | I'd like to see the work get done we described for last cycle so we can get rid of the alternate CD. That much less QA to do each time. | 20:29 |
| Riddell | ScottK: qt webkit is hard to get away from, much of KDE uses it, see apt-cache rdepends libqtwebkit4 | 20:29 |
| micahg | ScottK: how is konqueror any better khtml5 is totally unsupported from a security standpoint | 20:29 |
| ScottK | Riddell: True, but for most of those applications it's local content, so the risk is different. | 20:30 |
| debfx | Riddell: there is a difference between using qtwebkit in a browser and for example viewing wikipedia in amarok | 20:30 |
| ScottK | micahg: I know there have been some khtml updates, I don't know how comprehensive they are. | 20:30 |
| micahg | ScottK: that also bring us back to having to update qt4-x11 when there are khtml5 CVEs if there are any specific to it | 20:31 |
| micahg | which is why we broke out the qtwebkit source in the first place to avoid that | 20:31 |
| ScottK | micahg: khtml is in kde4libs. | 20:31 |
| micahg | orly> | 20:31 |
| ScottK | Yeah. | 20:31 |
| micahg | ok | 20:31 |
| ScottK | We broke it out because upstream did because they wanted Qt webkit to be able to follow a faster release cycle. | 20:32 |
| micahg | ScottK: that's not much better with all its rdepends :) | 20:32 |
| ScottK | Nope, but it takes a lot less time to build | 20:33 |
| debfx | ScottK: I'd rather get rid of the alternate part of the dvd instead of the alternate cd | 20:35 |
| ScottK | debfx: OK. | 20:35 |
| ScottK | I mostly want less testing to do. | 20:36 |
| ScottK | If the live installer can do everything the alternate can do, then we should dump it. | 20:37 |
| debfx | I hope you're not seriously considering konqueror as the default browser :/ | 20:43 |
| ScottK | No, just short on options. | 20:53 |
| ScottK | What I think we should really ship as the default is a very minimal browser that's enough for basic web browsing, but should be relatively stable/secure and then make it really easy for people to install what they want. | 20:54 |
| ScottK | As it is, I don't think any browser we're considering is really suitable for install media that's supposed to be used 5 years from now. | 20:55 |
| debfx | there is exactly one browser in main that is stable, secure and supported for the whole LTS cycle | 20:59 |
| Riddell | debfx: that firefox takes a full time canonical employee too look after it is typical of why I don't think it's a good answer for free software longer term never mind KDE. but that's a separate point | 21:20 |
| ScottK | Riddell: I think it would take a similar level of effort for Qt webkit + browser to properly support a KDE solution. | 21:34 |
| micahg | right, also webkit gtk will be taking up a significant portion of my time as well as we get further into the LTS | 21:45 |
| micahg | and that will hopefully be with some help from others | 21:46 |
| debfx | I don't think we have a choice if we want to ship a browser that is safe to use in 5 years so if no one objects I'll drop rekonq and ktorrent from the cd and add firefox to see how much oversized the image is. | 21:54 |
| Riddell | debfx: eek I object! | 21:57 |
| Riddell | well it can be done for a day or so to check for CD size but any formal change should be done after a kubuntu-council decision | 21:57 |
| debfx | Riddell: I have yet to hear a viable alternative and I also haven't seen much input from kubuntu-council members | 22:00 |
| Riddell | debfx: rekonq is a viable alternative, I'm talking to upstream now about what they can do security wise | 22:01 |
| ScottK | debfx: I object to doing it before the KC has a chance to agree. | 22:01 |
| ScottK | Riddell: It's not just rekonq, it's Qt webkit. Are they talking to their upstream? | 22:02 |
| Riddell | yes | 22:02 |
| ScottK | Riddell: How about if debfx makes the change for one daily and then reverts it so we can get some data on actual size differences? | 22:02 |
| Riddell | ScottK: that's fine | 22:03 |
| ScottK | debfx: How about that? | 22:03 |
| Riddell | qtwebkit tends to do security updates in svn which are released as part of point releases and work with previous versions of Qt | 22:03 |
| ScottK | So does that mean we need to move qtwebkit to the rolling release model? I think it affects too much stuff. | 22:04 |
| Riddell | ScottK: dunno I'll get a fuller answer tomorrow I hope | 22:06 |
| debfx | yeah that's fine | 22:07 |
| debfx | Riddell: qtwebkit is maintained in this branch: https://gitorious.org/+qtwebkit-developers/webkit/qtwebkit/commits/qtwebkit-2.2 | 22:07 |
| debfx | 2.0 certainly doesn't get security support anymore: https://gitorious.org/+qtwebkit-developers/webkit/qtwebkit/commits/qtwebkit-2.0 | 22:12 |
| Riddell | yeah they only maintain trunk | 22:16 |
| debfx | that is a problem | 22:20 |
| debfx | ok so in order to support rekonq it would need an embedded copy of the latest qtwebkit and a SRU exception for both similar to firefox and chromium? | 22:26 |
| debfx | and the hope that both will continue to make releases that are compatible with each other and don't require e.g. Qt5 | 22:27 |
| * debfx also notes that qtwebkit hasn't been the most reliable upstream so far | 22:31 | |
| debfx | with qtwebkit 2.1 only supporting symbian and the standalone release still not working properly | 22:32 |
| === zkriesse is now known as zkriesse_away | ||
| ScottK | If they won't even promise to support us, then that makes it a lot easier. | 22:37 |
| === zkriesse_away is now known as zkriesse | ||
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