[01:33] <ScottK> The rest of 4.7.4 is going into staging now.
[01:53] <ScottK> All uploaded.  Now let's see how it goes ....
[08:13] <Mamarok> hm, an update for KDE 4.7.3 but no 4.7.4?
[10:29] <ScottK> Mamarok: 4.7.4 is in progress for the updates PPA.
[10:30] <Mamarok> ScottK: OK, I was just wondering why I had almost 400 package updates for 4.7.3
[10:31] <ScottK> I uploaded all of 4.7.3 on Friday for oneiric-proposed.  We'll get 4.7.4 in too once it's tested a bit.
[10:31] <who_me> guys, is there any chance that some updates will make it in some future ppa release ? For some days there's been work done on the annoying bug #258916 (polkit crashes on shutdown/reboot) and now there is a patch that fixes it 
[10:32] <ScottK> who_me: #ubuntu-desktop is a better channel to ask about that one since it's not  a KDE package.
[10:35] <who_me> http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258916 < -not a KDE bug ?
[10:39] <jussi> who_me: but is the root cause in polkit or in the kde part??
[10:40] <who_me> it seems it was on the kde part, since the kde dev fixed the crash 
[10:41] <ScottK> Ah.
[10:41] <ScottK> That's a bit different.
[10:42] <ScottK> jussi: That's KDE support, so it's ours to take care of.
[10:42] <jussi> ok :)
[10:42] <ScottK> who_me: I think we should do an update for that, not sure when it'll get done though.
[10:45] <who_me> sweet, I'm just happy it's fixed
[12:11] <Riddell> Darkwing: did you come up with anything for the LTS proposal?
[12:14] <agateau> ScottK: hi, I think I fixed all your requests regarding the massif-visualizer package, can you have a look at it today?
[12:17] <debfx> could someone please verify the amarok SRU: bug #854030
[13:18] <Riddell> debfx: groovy, tests good
[13:29] <debfx> Riddell: thanks :)
[13:32] <ScottK> apachelogger: Probably.
[13:32] <ScottK> apachelogger: Neverming
[13:33] <ScottK> agateau: Probably.
[13:37] <apachelogger> magic
[13:39] <agateau> Riddell: hi! just tried to build Konversation on Precise: it failed to find indicate-qt until I installed pkg-config. I guess the package is missing a build-dep on pkg-config.
[13:46]  * apachelogger rolls eyes
[13:46] <apachelogger> agateau: couldn't indicate-qt provide a cmake config?
[13:48] <agateau> apachelogger: it could, but it would just use pkg-config...
[13:48] <apachelogger> why?
[13:49] <apachelogger> you just need to throw the same info you throw into the pkgconfig file into the cmake config
[13:49] <Riddell> agateau: konversation is?  bit it just built fine on precise
[13:49] <agateau> apachelogger: a more appropriate fix would be for cmake to actually fail when one says "find_package(PkgConfig REQUIRED)" and pkg-config is not installed
[13:49] <apachelogger> that too ^^
[13:50] <Riddell> s/bit/but/
[13:51] <agateau> Riddell: you asked me last week to have a look at why konversation did not build with indicate-qt support
[13:51] <agateau> Riddell: it builds, just without indicate-qt support
[13:55] <Riddell> agateau: oh yes, see you have to be slow with me and my concussion
[13:56] <agateau> Riddell: no problem
[13:57] <kio_http> Hi, sorry for bothering but I was wondering if there are plans for 4.7.4 updates?
[13:59] <Riddell> kio_http: yes, should be in some PPA for testing
[14:00] <agateau> Riddell: many lib*-dev which provide a pkg-config .pc file depends on pkg-config, so maybe the fix should be to add that dependency to libindicate-qt-dev?
[14:00] <Riddell> agateau: yes that seems like a good idea
[14:00] <kio_http> Riddell: Thanks on a side note Amarok uses high CPU until the window is restored in 4.7.3 will that be fixed with updates
[14:01] <Riddell> kio_http: just needs testers, https://launchpad.net/bugs/854030
[14:01] <agateau> Riddell: I am looking into it then
[14:09] <apachelogger> agateau, Riddell: technically speaking that is utterly wrong
[14:10] <apachelogger> they do not depend on it, they do not even recommend it, they might suggest it, but that doesn't help at all
[14:10] <agateau> apachelogger: I don't like it much either, but it seems to be the common way
[14:10] <apachelogger> bloody workaround(tm) :P
[14:11] <apachelogger> phonon would need to depend on cmake, qmake and pkgconfig :S
[14:11] <agateau> heh
[14:11] <agateau> so let's fix Konversation build-dep instead
[14:11]  * agateau does this
[14:13]  * agateau foresees himself fixing all packages depending on libindicate-qt...
[14:18] <apachelogger> unlikely, usually some package in the dep tree drags in pkgconfig, which is probably why konvi built earlier
[14:18] <apachelogger> debfx: we totally should make magic to inject builddeps based on cmake deps ^^
[14:29] <agateau> Riddell: Konversation vcs-bzr url does not work for me. it starts with "bzr+ssh://bazaar.". If I replace this part with "https://code." it works. Is this correct?
[14:29] <ScottK> apachelogger: Could you do the l10n magic and upload l10n for 4.7.4 to the staging PPA?
[14:30] <apachelogger> don't we usually upload to the updates ppa?
[14:30] <apachelogger> and for what series? ^^
[14:31] <debfx> apachelogger: as in control file pre-processing?
[14:31] <apachelogger> yes
[14:31] <debfx> that's a terrible idea :P
[14:31] <apachelogger> why?
[14:32] <Riddell> agateau: how about bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kubuntu-packagers/konversation ?
[14:32] <agateau> Riddell: mmm, actually the bzr branch is outdated, it still packages Konversation 1.3 :/ 
[14:32] <ScottK> apachelogger: We upload to staging and then copy to updates
[14:32] <Riddell> or bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packagers/konversation
[14:33] <apachelogger> ScottK: ok, what series?
[14:33] <ScottK> apachelogger: oneiric
[14:33] <agateau> Riddell: they are not branches
[14:34] <agateau> Riddell: https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/konversation works but is for 1.3
[14:34] <ScottK> Hey, with the new soprano and the KDE 4.7.3 I started Akonadi and my system didn't immediately become slow.
[14:34] <Riddell> agateau: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/konversation works now for me
[14:34] <Riddell> and is for 1.3
[14:34] <ScottK> bzr+ssh only works is you have write access to the branch.
[14:34] <ScottK> is/if
[14:35] <ScottK> (IIRC)
[14:35] <Riddell> hmm
[14:35] <Riddell> maybe we should use lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/konversation
[14:35]  * ScottK wonders if he dares fire up kmail now.
[14:35] <debfx> apachelogger: because having control.in is always a mess. e.g. I can guarantee that many times someone will update control instead
[14:35] <agateau> Riddell: it works now :/
[14:35]  * agateau is confused
[14:36] <apachelogger> debfx: why yes, stupid dpkg needs to be fixed to allow macros in builddep
[14:37] <Riddell> agateau: code.launchpad.net just forwards to the right URL when used with bzr
[14:37] <debfx> I'm sure one day we'll get executable control files ;)
[14:37] <Riddell> bzr+ssh://bazaar. is the right URL for those with write access, http://bazaar. otherwise
[14:38] <agateau> Riddell: so it's weird it didn't work before for me. Did you change something, like giving me write access?
[14:38] <Riddell> agateau: no I think it was a glitch in the launchpad
[14:38] <agateau> Riddell: ok :/
[14:38] <apachelogger> yofel_: ping
[14:38] <agateau> Riddell: still, shouldn't we expose an url which works for most people rather than only those with write access?
[14:39] <Riddell> agateau: that's why we should consider using lp:
[14:39] <agateau> Riddell: ah right
[14:41] <agateau> Riddell: anyway, can you push the 1.4 changes in the branch?
[14:41] <Riddell> ok
[14:46] <Riddell> agateau: done
[14:47] <agateau> Riddell: thanks
[14:48] <yofel_> apachelogger: pong
[14:49] <yofel> apachelogger: l10n?
[14:52] <debfx> wow nepomuk is still broken, eats 50% cpu for around 5 minutes on a fresh precise installation
[14:52] <debfx> even though indexing is turned off
[14:55] <apachelogger> yofel: why be there common-natty-archive but common-oneiric?
[14:56] <yofel> huh?
[14:56] <apachelogger> repos
[14:57] <yofel> didn't ScottK invent -archive for the 4.6.5 SRU?
[14:57] <apachelogger> I dunno
[14:57] <ScottK> Don't think so.
[14:57] <yofel> because common-natty already had the 4.7 backports
[14:58] <ScottK> Shouldn't it have just been updates for 4.6.x and backports for 4.7 on natty?
[15:00] <yofel> actually that branch was created by apachelogger
[15:00] <apachelogger> lol
[15:01] <apachelogger> but I think your thought there was right
[15:01] <apachelogger> archive was to deploy stable updates to archive
[15:01] <apachelogger> whereas the non archive is for ppa 
[15:01] <apachelogger> i.e. for natty that became 4.7
[15:03]  * Riddell puts calligra beta 5 into ppa:kubuntu-ppa/beta for oneiric
[15:04] <debfx> apachelogger: isn't this phonon patch upstreamable? http://paste.kde.org/158162/
[15:05] <apachelogger> I dont even understand that patch
[15:09] <debfx> it avoid setting an rpath if phonon is installed to a system library dir
[15:09] <debfx> but it needs some changes to work with cmake 2.6
[15:10] <apachelogger> phonon sets an rpath if installed to /usr/lib? :O
[15:10] <debfx> yes
[15:19] <kio_http> @kvl We could probably get packages to OpenSuse and Arch when we complete it. Ubuntu users will have to use the .gz as I don't know how to get packages in there + I have no idea how .debs work. But that's too much to worry for know. By the time we complete kde 5 will be out and this thing will need re porting.
[15:19] <kio_http> Oops wrong channel sorry
[15:24] <Riddell> are we willing to test 12.04.x update releases?
[15:24] <Riddell> I think it was mostly ScottK who tested 10.04.x update releases
[15:24] <ScottK> Yes.
[15:25] <ScottK> We should do 5 year LTS since it's exactly no more work for us than 3.
[15:25] <Riddell> I'm working on the proposal
[15:25] <ScottK> Great.
[15:27] <Riddell> debfx: did the 1.5GB DVD image discussion come to a conclusion?  
[15:27] <Riddell> (I don't feel well enough to be part of heavey discussions yet)
[15:31] <Riddell> agateau: could I put you down as my backup "will be responsive to canonical support requets" person?
[15:31] <Riddell> just incase I get hit by a bus (or French car)
[15:32] <agateau> Riddell: sure, to the limits of my knowledge
[15:32] <agateau> Riddell: not that I will be on vacation soon though
[15:32]  * agateau is a lazy french guy
[15:33] <debfx> Riddell: well none of the kubuntu devs really participated in the firefox discussion. the question is if firefox is good enough for us even without the kde integration.
[15:34] <debfx> though it might be worth shrinking the dvd even if we stick with rekonq
[15:34] <agateau> i guess it's all about priorities: "well integrated" vs "works with almost all websites"
[15:34]  * agateau uses firefox
[15:36] <ScottK> debfx: I think "without KDE integration" is a very different question.  That wasn't clear (at least to me) during the discussion.
[15:36] <ScottK> Did anyone do the analysis to see how much more room it would take?
[15:36] <debfx> ScottK: it wasn't clear to me either
[15:38]  * maco uses chromium mostly and firefox a little
[15:38] <maco> (chromium's faster, but my company's software theoretically doesn't support it)
[15:39] <ScottK> BTW, I'm not uploading 4.7.4 to precise on the assumption the the 4.8 beta will go in before we're ready to put 4.7.4 in oneiric-proposed
[15:39] <debfx> ScottK: I think about 18MB
[15:40] <ScottK> I think there's a good chance we could get that even on the CD.
[15:42] <debfx> how? the cd is already oversized without any language pack
[15:42] <debfx> the lack of supported language is imho another big problem of our cd image
[15:47] <kio_http> FYI Firefox has experimental QT builds that work better than rekonq in my opinion. They plan to be considered stable in a year
[15:51] <agateau> kio_http: do you have any url for that plan?
[15:51] <kio_http> agateau: Let me check I remember reading it somewhere
[15:52] <kio_http> agateau: But the is was not a 100% confirmed thing
[15:53] <kio_http> agateau: Sorry can't find it ... the discussion was about making it for MeeGo mostly
[16:05] <ScottK> kio_http: We've got FF with KDE support patches now, but with FF new rapid release model, the patches aren't supportable anymore.
[16:06] <kio_http> ScottK: You could also do things like Windows does in Europe .. a browser choice screen with a pros and cons of each that the user selects. (if someone is using a browser he/she most likely has an internet connection)
[16:12] <agateau> Riddell: pushed a new version of Konversation on lp:~kubuntu-packagers/(...) can you upload it?
[16:17] <jussi> On the DVD/USB/CD image debate, how would we be providing a "Kubuntu Essentials CD" and a supported, default USB/DVD image? so CD for the legacy/quick installs and DVD/USB for the whole experience - which would be default? 
[16:18] <Riddell> jussi: in that scenario I imagine a KDE pure CD for the KDE purists like me and an expanded DVD/USB image with libreoffice and firefox
[16:20] <jussi> Riddell: that would make sense to me.
[16:20] <jussi> is kde small enough for that?
[16:21] <Riddell> agateau: done
[16:21] <agateau> Riddell: thanks!
[16:21] <Riddell> jussi: well it would be smaller than what we have at the moment which includes libreoffice
[16:22] <jussi> ok.
[16:26] <debfx> so without kde patches the firefox open/save dialogs are crap
[16:26] <debfx> other than that I don't see a difference
[16:27] <debfx> if only chromium was in main ...
[16:30] <Riddell> debfx: lack KDE notification integration (when download complete)
[16:30] <Riddell> agateau: is Global Menu upstream in Qt or still in progress?
[16:30] <agateau> Riddell: the patch is in 4.8
[16:31] <agateau> Riddell: it is only the part which makes it possible to replace the menubar implementation with a plugin,
[16:31] <agateau> Riddell: the code for the plugin itself remains on launchpad
[16:31] <Riddell> agateau: and what is the name of your KDE Notify-OSD Supporter?
[16:31] <agateau> Riddell: colibri?
[16:32] <Riddell> that's the one
[16:33] <debfx> Riddell: hm right, but how does the download notification work on ubuntu?
[16:39] <Riddell> debfx: that I don't know
[17:14] <Riddell> how's this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal
[17:21] <apachelogger> kde svn 1266985
[17:22] <apachelogger> ubottu: hello!
[17:22] <apachelogger> ubottu: not the fastest today, hu?
[17:36] <ScottK> Riddell: You might not want to highlight libmsn as an example of a successful update since we're in the middle of a second SRU to fix the first one.
[17:39] <ScottK> Riddell: I fixed one left over Edubuntu that shouldn't have been there.  Other than maybe a different example than libmsn, I think it's good.
[19:05] <ScottK> debfx: Turns out it's easy to save gobs of space (see kubuntu-devel ML)
[19:07] <debfx> ScottK: replacing applications with smaller, inferior ones is of course always possible. however that doesn't mean it's a good choice.
[19:07] <ScottK> debfx: I guess I left the smiley off my comment ...
[19:08] <ScottK> I agree with you.
[19:08] <debfx> ah right :)
[19:08] <debfx> sorry
[19:09] <debfx> this Luca Tringali really needs to start using a proper MUA
[19:09] <apachelogger> >>> apt-cache show kate | grep Size
[19:09] <apachelogger> Installed-Size: 2972
[19:10] <apachelogger> that kate size does nto replicate here
[19:10] <apachelogger> and kfi is like 3kb or something :S
[19:10] <apachelogger> switching to calligra would start a catfight with upstream
[19:10] <apachelogger> also FWIW
[19:10] <apachelogger> uncompressed data is next to useless
[19:11] <apachelogger> as the cd images are lzma'd
[19:11] <debfx> it's gzipped afaik but yeah
[19:11] <apachelogger> not live
[19:11] <apachelogger> it's lzma
[19:11] <apachelogger> the entire squasfs
[19:12] <apachelogger> at least it still was when I was investigating compression techniques 2 years ago
[19:12] <apachelogger> (I doubt they'd regress from lzma to gzip for ubuntu and survive without throwing half the python stuff off the image :P)
[19:13] <apachelogger> I do agree with Glenn on the need of a cleanup
[19:13]  * apachelogger thinks we have too much rubbish on the CD really
[19:13] <apachelogger> and running by default
[19:13] <apachelogger> but I am a blackbox lover
[19:15] <debfx> apachelogger: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-foundations-n-squashfs-lzma-redux
[19:16] <debfx> so I don't think lzma is used atm
[19:17] <apachelogger> The kernel now has LZMA support. We need to check to see if squashfs-lzma makes rsync cry.
[19:17] <apachelogger> rsync?!
[19:17] <apachelogger> Oo
[19:17] <apachelogger> this does not even make sense :O
[19:20] <debfx> I don't think there are many applications that we can get rid of except ktorrent
[19:21] <apachelogger> depends on why you want to remove them
[19:22] <ScottK> The reason ktorrent is there is because torrent is one of our distribution methods.
[19:22] <ScottK> No ktorrent and then fewer torrent download and more direct downloads in the future.
[19:22] <apachelogger> drop ktorrent, include kget
[19:22] <apachelogger> ktorrent does not suite the distribution use case as it is way too complicated
[19:23] <apachelogger> ScottK: FWIW, I do not think there are that many users of torrents for kubuntu downloads
[19:24] <apachelogger> the download mirrors are pretty fast and reliable
[19:24] <ScottK> Dunno.  I know there are a lot of seeds people put it.
[19:24] <ScottK> it/up
[19:25] <apachelogger> well, there certainly are some :P
[19:25] <apachelogger> anywho
[19:25] <debfx> hm kget is bigger than ktorrent
[19:26] <apachelogger> I do not think this use case is any reason to put software on the CD
[19:26] <apachelogger> debfx: also more usable
[19:26] <Riddell> kget also messes up normal KDE download methods
[19:26] <apachelogger> Riddell: we can fiddle with that
[19:26]  * ScottK agrees with Riddell
[19:26] <apachelogger> point being
[19:26] <debfx> I'd just get rid of ktorrent and not replace it with anything
[19:26] <ScottK> Kget should get itself gone.
[19:26] <apachelogger> ktorrent is so insanely ugly it makes me wanna throw up regularly
[19:27] <apachelogger> also completely random icon and default UI
[19:27] <apachelogger> I have seen people who know what torrents were struggle with this app
[19:27] <apachelogger> debfx: ack
[19:27]  * apachelogger doesnt see use for torrent client by default
[19:27] <apachelogger> particularly since it takes like 5 seconds to get one installed
[19:27] <ScottK> Providing it in the default install gives thousands of young Kubuntu users an excuse why the have torrent apps installed when asked by their parents, schools, law enforcement, etc.
[19:28] <apachelogger> and from what I have seen people tend to be very opinionated about which torrent client to use ^^
[19:28] <ScottK> Much like web browsers.
[19:28] <apachelogger> yep
[19:28] <apachelogger> or IDEs for that matter
[19:29] <debfx> the difference is that we need to ship a browser
[19:39] <who_me> would qbittorrent be a better suited replacement ? it does have a nice gui than ktorrent. or transmission-qt, but it does not really integrate with kde style  apps
[19:41] <debfx> well I don't think we need a torrent client
[19:43] <who_me> fair enough, if anyone needs one they can apt-get install one or search with synaptic or muon... ok, muon can't really search much atm.
[19:45] <debfx> muon can't search?
[19:46] <debfx> ah, crashes
[19:48] <who_me> sometimes it finds stuff , sometimes it does not, try searching for "polkit" in muon, then try it with synaptic
[19:49] <Riddell> searching for polkit works in Muon Package Manager
[19:49] <who_me> but not with the software center
[19:50] <Riddell> well no, polkit isn't user faced software
[19:50] <Riddell> and actually it does return "muon" itself since it's in that description :)
[19:51] <debfx> dropping rekonq, ktorrent and amarok would be ~enough space for firefox
[19:52] <debfx> or we drop LO from the cd
[20:12] <debfx> Riddell: kubuntu-docs contains many translations that are very incomplete
[20:13] <jjesse> debfx,  not many people translate kubuntu-docs, there are only 2 of us that write them, no idea how many people actually translate them
[20:15] <debfx> jjesse: I guess we need some statistics how many strings each translation covers so we can only include the ones that reach a certain percentage.
[20:16] <jjesse> would that help get more translations?  IE I noticed my install only had the English Kubuntu-Docs instead of localized to my language
[20:17] <debfx> of course not, but it would help conserving space and not shipping incomplete translations
[20:18] <jjesse> bummer
[20:18] <jjesse> yay for saving space though
[20:26] <Riddell> debfx: kubuntu-docs 1.10ubuntu2 is 6.8 MiB vs 11.10ubuntu1 without translations at 2.7 MiB
[20:26] <Riddell> kubuntu with firefox in place of amarok would be doubly disappointing for me
[20:28] <ScottK> Riddell: We need a supportable plan for a Qt webkit based browser or go back to Konqueror then.  The lack of upstream security support for QT webkit will make it a pretty tough sell.
[20:28] <Riddell> 1/2 an hour until tech board meeting
[20:29] <ScottK> I'd like to see the work get done we described for last cycle so we can get rid of the alternate CD.  That much less QA to do each time.
[20:29] <Riddell> ScottK: qt webkit is hard to get away from, much of KDE uses it, see apt-cache rdepends libqtwebkit4
[20:29] <micahg> ScottK: how is konqueror any better khtml5 is totally unsupported from a security standpoint
[20:30] <ScottK> Riddell: True, but for most of those applications it's local content, so the risk is different.
[20:30] <debfx> Riddell: there is a difference between using qtwebkit in a browser and for example viewing wikipedia in amarok
[20:30] <ScottK> micahg: I know there have been some khtml updates, I don't know how comprehensive they are.
[20:31] <micahg> ScottK: that also bring us back to having to update qt4-x11 when there are khtml5 CVEs if there are any specific to it
[20:31] <micahg> which is why we broke out the qtwebkit source in the first place to avoid that
[20:31] <ScottK> micahg: khtml is in kde4libs.
[20:31] <micahg> orly>
[20:31] <ScottK> Yeah.
[20:31] <micahg> ok
[20:32] <ScottK> We broke it out because upstream did because they wanted Qt webkit to be able to follow a faster release cycle.
[20:32] <micahg> ScottK: that's not much better with all its rdepends :)
[20:33] <ScottK> Nope, but it takes a lot less time to build
[20:35] <debfx> ScottK: I'd rather get rid of the alternate part of the dvd instead of the alternate cd
[20:35] <ScottK> debfx: OK.
[20:36] <ScottK> I mostly want less testing to do.
[20:37] <ScottK> If the live installer can do everything the alternate can do, then we should dump it.
[20:43] <debfx> I hope you're not seriously considering konqueror as the default browser :/
[20:53] <ScottK> No, just short on options.
[20:54] <ScottK> What I think we should really ship as the default is a very minimal browser that's enough for basic web browsing, but should be relatively stable/secure and then make it really easy for people to install what they want.
[20:55] <ScottK> As it is, I don't think any browser we're considering is really suitable for install media that's supposed to be used 5 years from now.
[20:59] <debfx> there is exactly one browser in main that is stable, secure and supported for the whole LTS cycle
[21:20] <Riddell> debfx: that firefox takes a full time canonical employee too look after it is typical of why I don't think it's a good answer for free software longer term never mind KDE.  but that's a separate point
[21:34] <ScottK> Riddell: I think it would take a similar level of effort for Qt webkit + browser to properly support a KDE solution.
[21:45] <micahg> right, also webkit gtk will be taking up a significant portion of my time as well as we get further into the LTS
[21:46] <micahg> and that will hopefully be with some help from others
[21:54] <debfx> I don't think we have a choice if we want to ship a browser that is safe to use in 5 years so if no one objects I'll drop rekonq and ktorrent from the cd and add firefox to see how much oversized the image is.
[21:57] <Riddell> debfx: eek I object!
[21:57] <Riddell> well it can be done for a day or so to check for CD size but any formal change should be done after a kubuntu-council decision
[22:00] <debfx> Riddell: I have yet to hear a viable alternative and I also haven't seen much input from kubuntu-council members
[22:01] <Riddell> debfx: rekonq is a viable alternative, I'm talking to upstream now about what they can do security wise
[22:01] <ScottK> debfx: I object to doing it before the KC has a chance to agree.
[22:02] <ScottK> Riddell: It's not just rekonq, it's Qt webkit.  Are they talking to their upstream?
[22:02] <Riddell> yes
[22:02] <ScottK> Riddell: How about if debfx makes the change for one daily and then reverts it so we can get some data on actual size differences?
[22:03] <Riddell> ScottK: that's fine
[22:03] <ScottK> debfx: How about that?
[22:03] <Riddell> qtwebkit tends to do security updates in svn which are released as part of point releases and work with previous versions of Qt
[22:04] <ScottK> So does that mean we need to move qtwebkit to the rolling release model? I think it affects too much stuff.
[22:06] <Riddell> ScottK: dunno I'll get a fuller answer tomorrow I hope
[22:07] <debfx> yeah that's fine
[22:07] <debfx> Riddell: qtwebkit is maintained in this branch: https://gitorious.org/+qtwebkit-developers/webkit/qtwebkit/commits/qtwebkit-2.2
[22:12] <debfx> 2.0 certainly doesn't get security support anymore: https://gitorious.org/+qtwebkit-developers/webkit/qtwebkit/commits/qtwebkit-2.0
[22:16] <Riddell> yeah they only maintain trunk
[22:20] <debfx> that is a problem
[22:26] <debfx> ok so in order to support rekonq it would need an embedded copy of the latest qtwebkit and a SRU exception for both similar to firefox and chromium?
[22:27] <debfx> and the hope that both will continue to make releases that are compatible with each other and don't require e.g. Qt5
[22:31]  * debfx also notes that qtwebkit hasn't been the most reliable upstream so far
[22:32] <debfx> with qtwebkit 2.1 only supporting symbian and the standalone release still not working properly
[22:37] <ScottK> If they won't even promise to support us, then that makes it a lot easier.