[05:04] <kio_http> about the browser discussion, why not use konqueror with the webkit backend instead of khtml http://digitizor.com/2010/08/11/how-to-switch-to-webkit-in-konqueror-browser-kde-sc-4-5kubuntu/
[05:19] <ScottK> kio_http: Why would that be better than rekonq?
[05:31] <kio_http> ScottK: I don't know but rekonq keeps crashing for me
[05:32] <ScottK> The biggest problem from a supportability POV is Qt webkit and security support.
[05:32] <ScottK> (khtml isn't any better)
[05:33] <kio_http> Or personally I would like having no browser but a browser select screen like Windows Edition N's have
[05:36] <ScottK> I think we need some minimal browser, but it doesn't have to be full featured.
[05:36] <kio_http> ScottK: This is the windows solution http://cdn2.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/clip_image002_136F9F12.jpg for europe editions
[05:37] <ScottK> Yes, but Windows can do that since they don't provide a full solution.  Also we can't put all the browsers on the CD.
[05:38] <kio_http> ScottK: Actually that comes with no browser, its a downloader like Kubuntu's firefox installer
[05:38] <ScottK> Right, but Windows is a subset of the total OS solution that we try to provide.
[05:39] <kio_http> I see
[05:42] <kio_http> Ms does it for legal reasons the rest of the world gets IE. But I figured if you use a web browser you have an Internet connection so a downloader choice wouldn't harm. or maybe give one browser plus a choice screen instead of the firefox installer
[05:49] <ScottK> I think it's reasonable.
[05:50] <ScottK> We've discussed switching the FF installer to a FF/Chromium choice, but no one actually did the work.
[06:37] <kio_http> Another idea about the netbook interface ... By default if the screen resolution is less than 1024X768 it defaults to the netbook interface. Most people prefer the standard interface on netbooks... any chance that it could be made into a selectable option on first boot or something? Everytime I install on a netbook I have to remove the netbook settings packages before logon
[06:39] <ScottK> No you donn't.
[06:40] <ScottK> All you have to do is pick plasma-desktop in systemsettings after you log in.
[06:40] <ScottK> A lot of people have given positive feedback about the netbook interface, BTW.
[06:40] <kio_http> ScottK: I know but the titlebar has only two buttons then and there are some other quirks
[06:41] <kio_http> ScottK: No big deal actually .. just out of the users I know many like the normal interface... then some like the netbook one on big screens too
[10:05] <hrw> hi
[10:06] <hrw> can someone create some kind of kubuntu-minimal package which would be some kind of kubuntu-desktop without pim and most of apps? desktop/plasma+kdm+wm - set just to boot into kde
[10:19] <jussi> hrw, that would be nice, along with the low-fat-settings package
[10:20] <hrw> I just installed kubuntu-desktop and will go on dropping kdepim parts etc before login
[10:21] <jussi> hrw: try installing the low fat settings also, might help with making it lihter from th beginning
[10:22] <hrw> jussi: I have my kde4 settings from previous use
[10:22] <jussi> ahh ok
[10:22] <hrw> in march I moved to xfce and now going back
[10:23] <jussi> hrw: if you have a list of packages you think would be a good package set, post it and lets try get somethign together.
[10:23]  * jussi wouldnt mind running a minimal kubuntu on his old machine
[10:24] <hrw> hard to tell for as I have other set of default apps then most of kubuntu based setup probably
[10:38] <hrw> hm. no sound on speakers
[10:39] <hrw> ok, enabled
[10:42] <jussi> btw, do we have a kde/Qt version of pavucontrol? 
[10:45] <Riddell> no, kmix is the kde offering
[10:45] <jussi> hrm. sad.
[10:46] <jussi> kmix doesnt seem to cut it. :/
[10:46] <Riddell> it controls the volume for every pulse input and output device
[11:38] <who_me> hey, it seems there are no debug symbols available for the updated amarok packages
[11:49] <Riddell> amarok 2.4.3 has amarok-dbg and ddebs
[14:02] <ScottK> Who's still on oneiric?
[14:02] <ScottK> yofel_: ?
[14:02] <Riddell> ScottK: I am but I'm also on a non ADSL connection so it's hard for me to test
[14:03] <Riddell> a couple of hours, I'll leave it running
[14:03] <ScottK> Riddell: OK.  Could you take a look at at least the 4.7.3 language updates and mark #901283  verified 
[14:04] <ScottK> The rest of 4.7.3 needs testing too, of course.
[14:04] <ScottK> I may actually be able to use kmail now.
[14:06] <al> oh, kmail became usable again?
[14:07] <ScottK> Relatively.
[14:07] <ScottK> It may be up to "sucks less than Thunderbird"
[14:07] <ScottK> I'm experimenting with it again.
[14:08] <al> i'd have to see it for myself to believe it
[14:09] <ScottK> In any case, if by usable you're thinking something like "a well behaved, mature piece of software", it's not that.
[14:10] <al> meh
[14:22] <who_me> it seems to work fine over imap with gmail
[14:23] <stefan`> i agree. using kmail2 since it was released on kubuntu and i'm pretty happy with it.
[14:25] <ScottK> I'm using dimap and it mostly works now.
[14:25] <ScottK> It seems very hit or miss for people.
[14:48] <Riddell> ScottK: are you anting 4.7.3 or 4.7.4 tested?
[14:48] <ScottK> Riddell: 4.7.3 for the SRU.
[14:48] <ScottK> 4.7.4 has one package we're still waiting on.
[14:48] <ScottK> 9 hour build delays on PPAs make it take a while ...
[14:53] <yofel_> re
[14:53] <yofel> installing 4.7.3 from -proposed
[14:54] <who_me> any place I can eyeball the changes in 4.7.3 update  (the one you guys are working on) ?
[14:56] <yofel> ScottK: the delays are the reason I usually work in ninjas, private ppa builds get quite a bit of priority added
[14:57] <Riddell> kde.org
[14:57] <ScottK> When it's post-release and it's not private, I think it's kind of cheating.
[15:00] <who_me> Riddell: I was thinking about changes between kde 4.7.3 release that you are "ccoking" now vs. what was already released in the kubuntu ppa
[15:00] <who_me> s/ccoking/cooking
[15:00] <apol> hi! can somebody show me some KDE package sources? I need to create one and I'm looking for a starting point
[15:00] <ScottK> who_me: It shouldn't be anything.  Just a rebuild to get it into the official archive.
[15:01] <who_me> alright
[15:02] <Riddell> apol: a library or an application?
[15:02] <apol> Riddell: a KCM
[15:02] <apol> so I guess an app?
[15:04] <Riddell> apol: http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-config-gtk maybe
[15:04] <apol> awesome
[15:04] <apol> no.. This page does not exist, or you may not have permission to see it.
[15:05] <apol> this? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kcm-gtk
[15:06] <yofel> yes
[15:06] <yofel> kde-config-gtk is the binary
[15:06] <apol> ok
[15:06]  * apol looks for the deb sources...
[15:07] <yofel> apt-get source kde-config-gtk
[15:07] <yofel> that'll get it if you've got deb-src on
[15:08] <apol> awesome
[15:09] <apol> oh
[15:09] <apol> ok
[15:09]  * apol tries
[15:09] <apol> nah didn't work, but I'm good with what I found :P
[15:36] <ScottK> Do people on 4.7.2 have a "Mail Dispatcher Agent" in their Akonadi config?
[15:36] <ScottK> It's greyed out in my 4.7.3 and so I can't add it and thus can't send mail.
[15:38] <Riddell> I don't see anything with that name in 4.7.3
[15:38] <Riddell> ScottK: which just booted successfully, what should I test and where should I report?
[15:39] <ScottK> Bug #901283 for l10n and Bug #901975  for everything else.
[15:39] <ScottK> I think the most important thing is to see if kmail is working.
[15:39] <ScottK> That's where the biggest changes were.
[15:40] <ScottK> That and I can't get it to work (but I didn't on 4.7.2 either and others did)
[15:46] <Riddell> hmm loads fine but I need to find a test e-mail account to test on
[15:56] <yofel> well, 4.7.3 works as well/bad as the ppa packages for me
[15:59] <ScottK> yofel: How about in comparison to 4.7.2?
[15:59] <ScottK> That's the real benchmark for this.
[15:59] <yofel> at least for me there was no new breakage compared to 4.7.2
[16:01] <ScottK> Comment in the bug please.
[16:05] <Riddell> ScottK: yay, kontact successfully downloads all my spam
[16:06] <ScottK> Riddell: Now can you send mail with it?
[16:11] <ScottK> I can send mail with a new user
[16:13] <Riddell> ScottK: hmm, SSL negotiation failed
[16:13] <ScottK> I recall problems before with it not always asking for certificate validation if the cert was self signed.
[16:14] <Riddell> ooh yay sent
[16:14] <Riddell> was using the wrong authentication type
[16:17] <Riddell> ScottK: right where do I report?
[16:21]  * yofel still gets kde bug 259355 on his eeePC which make kmail essentially useless, but that's nothing new
[16:21] <ScottK> Riddell: Bug #901283 for l10n and Bug #901975  for everything else.
[16:41] <ScottK> Bang.  Got it.
[16:42] <ScottK> Had to manually restart the Mail Dispatcher Agent using akonadiconsole, re-enter my password, and then bang.  Off to the races.
[17:01] <ScottK> yofel and Riddell: Are you on amd64 or i386?
[17:02]  * yofel is on i386 right now
[17:02] <Riddell> i386 too
[17:02] <ScottK> yofel: Can you install 4.7.4 from staging and make sure it starts up OK?
[17:02] <yofel> sure
[17:03] <ScottK> If so, I'll copy it to the updates PPA once kdeutils is built on amd64.
[17:08] <ScottK> apachelogger_: I'm still waiting for the 4.7.4 l10n upload you promised me.
[17:08] <ScottK> yofel: Could you do it?  To staging.
[17:08] <ScottK> (Almost forgot that)
[17:08] <yofel> ah, can do
[17:08] <ScottK> Thanks.
[17:09] <yofel> problem: libscience4 depends upon libkdeedu-data (>= 4:4.7.4)
[17:09] <ScottK> Shouldn't you have that?
[17:09] <yofel> libkdeedu isn't in staging
[17:09] <yofel> at least I don't see it
[17:10] <ScottK> Right.  Had no changes.
[17:10] <ScottK> Let me upload it anyway then.
[17:10] <yofel> then you need to remove the versioned depends from libscience4
[17:11] <ScottK> Why?
[17:11] <ScottK> Let's just upload libkdeedu.
[17:12] <ScottK> (I just did)
[17:12] <yofel> fine with me
[17:15] <ScottK> Great.
[17:15] <CIA-52> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kde-l10n-common-oneiric] Philip Muškovac * 114 * debian/ (changelog config) New upstream release (svn: 1266985, type: stable) PPA upload
[17:23] <ScottK> yofel: Thanks for doing l10n and testing.  I'll ping you again once libkdeedu is in.
[17:25] <ScottK> Riddell: My thought for 4.7.X is to silently move 4.7.4 to the updates PPA once we get a successful smoke test and then announce both 4.7.3 in oneiric-updates and 4.7.4 in the updates PPA for testing together.
[17:31] <apachelogger_> ScottK: sorry I got hung up on fixing my qtcreator
[17:32] <ScottK> apachelogger_: It's OK.  yofel covered for you.
[18:35] <yofel> ScottK: l10n up
[18:35] <ScottK> yofel: Thanks.
[18:43] <schnelle> is 4.7.4 coming soon to oneiric? :)
[18:52] <ScottK> Yes.
[19:58] <Quintasan> thorgt in #kde-devel wants to rewrite Printer KCM from Python to cpp with PolicyKit integration \o/
[20:10] <ScottK> dantti started that a couple of years ago too.
[20:35] <ScottK> yofel: libkdeedu is up.  Would you try again please.
[21:16] <Darkwing> Yay for having internet back at my house full time.
[21:18] <ScottK> Darkwing: Do you have a oneiric system?
[21:18] <Darkwing> My laptop is Oneiric
[21:19] <Darkwing> My server is LTS
[21:19] <ScottK> If you could, I'd appreciate if you could install KDE SC 4.7.3 and the updated soprano from oneiric-proposed and test it.
[21:19] <Darkwing> Sure.
[21:21] <Darkwing> Will it fix my KMail? :P
[21:23] <yofel> update finished, rebooting
[21:28] <yofel> ScottK: 4.7.4 runs fine (no obvious regressions, no obvious fixes)
[21:29] <who_me> that's sad
[21:30] <who_me> the "no fixes" part
[21:30] <yofel> well, at least to me, not that I had many issues with 4.7 in the first place
[21:32] <ScottK> yofel: Thanks.  I'll copy it to the updates PPA once it's all built on amd64.
[21:32] <ScottK> Darkwing: It was better for me.
[21:34] <ScottK> There's quite a number of kdepim changes in 4.7.4.
[21:34] <Riddell> Darkwing: lucky you, I'm on a 3G dongle!
[21:34]  * yofel wonders if one can delete collections in akonadiconsole
[21:35] <Darkwing> Yeah... For me it was a pick between food and internet.
[21:35] <Darkwing> With Christmas coming up we are dumping extra money into gifts for kids.
[21:37] <Riddell> that's very generous, I hopw the children look after you when you're in old age
[21:38] <Darkwing> :)
[21:38] <Darkwing> Anything to make my little ones happy.
[21:46] <ScottK> Clearly you don't have teenagers yet.
[21:49] <Riddell> right, here I am all concussion and no handy teenagers to do the shopping for me
[21:50] <ScottK> That only lasts about the first month after they get their driving license.
[21:58] <Darkwing> No, not yet.
[21:58] <Darkwing> They are 6, 4 and 3
[21:58] <Darkwing> But, Amazon is great for christmas shopping
[21:59] <ScottK> They don't even add up to a driver.
[22:03] <Darkwing> hehehe
[22:03] <Darkwing> Yeah, not looking forward to that when it comes.
[22:03] <Darkwing> my two youngest are girls
[22:04] <Darkwing> that should be interesting.
[22:14] <ScottK> yofel: Is the kdenlive in the updates PPA supposed to be an SRU eventually?
[22:15] <yofel> well.. not really SRUable as it's essentially a backport - too many changes.
[22:15] <ScottK> I see.
[22:16] <ScottK> Should it better go in backports then?
[22:16] <yofel> theoretically yes, I put it in updates because archive kdenlive is pretty much broken in oneiric.
[22:17] <ScottK> That could be an argument for an invasive SRU.
[22:19] <yofel> maybe I'll have time to look at it over christmas, no time in the next 1.5 weeks at least
[22:50] <ScottK> Sounds good.
[23:00] <Riddell> libkactivies uses kactivitymanagerd binary, should I put kactivitymanagerd in the libkactivies package?
[23:12] <ScottK> Does anything else use it?  Does libkactivies have an SO name?
[23:13] <Riddell> kdebase-workspace uses it http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.devel.core/73040
[23:14] <Riddell> SONAME is libkactivities.so.6
[23:14] <ScottK> Unless kde-workspace needs libkactivies as well, it should probably be separated.
[23:15] <ScottK> Then it'd be problematic to mix it with a non-soname daemon in the same package.
[23:15] <ScottK> I'd separate it.
[23:15] <Riddell> and have libkactivies depend on kactivitymanagerd 
[23:16] <ScottK> Yes.
[23:17] <Riddell> I need to work out where to put the plugins too
[23:20] <Riddell> along with the daemon it seems
[23:22] <Riddell> ok what should I call a package with kactivitymanagerd and activitymanager_plugin_slc.so int it made by kactivities?
[23:24] <rbelem> Riddell, i called libkactivities-bin
[23:24] <rbelem> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-active/+archive/ppa/+packages
[23:25] <ScottK> Riddell: You might also ask for naming suggestions in #debian-qt-kde on OFTC.  It's easier if they agree to the naming up front so we don't have to deal with renaming later.
[23:26] <Riddell> groovy, thanks rbelem, ScottK 
[23:26] <rbelem> :-D
[23:26] <Riddell> a job for tomorrow though, good night
[23:26] <ScottK> No problem.
[23:26] <rbelem> Riddell, good night :-)
[23:27]  * yofel is off to bed too, good night