[00:26] <AlanBell> popey: ok, update my precise VM and it still opens gnome-terminal just fine, however a desktop I upgraded to precise is showing the same error you have
[03:14] <greg-g> pangolin: mhall119 :)
[05:17] <jono> cjohnston, around?
[07:24] <alourie> good morning
[07:42] <bkerensa> good morning alourie
[07:44] <alourie> hi bkerensa
[07:45]  * bkerensa is updating one of his CentOS servers and doing backups
[07:45] <bkerensa> =o
[07:45] <alourie> oh
[07:46] <bkerensa> heh
[08:34] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:59] <bkerensa> Good Morning
[09:51] <czajkowski> no dholbach
[09:51] <czajkowski> dpm: is daniel around this week ?
[09:52] <dpm> hi czajkowski, he's on holiday, he's back tomorrow or the day after
[09:53] <czajkowski> ok thanks
[10:01] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/854337
[10:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 854337 in lightdm ""dpkg-reconfigure lightdm" fails (dup-of: 706354)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[10:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 706354 in ntp "dpkg-maintscript-helper: warning: environment variable DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_PACKAGE missing" [Low,Confirmed]
[10:02] <czajkowski> JanC: AlanBell popey my login issue! :)
[10:07] <popey> have you tried what bilial suggested?
[10:07] <popey> -i
[10:07] <czajkowski> popey: trellis fixed it last night :)
[10:07] <czajkowski> there was much editing and black screen going on for me to understand
[10:07] <czajkowski> but it now works
[10:08] <czajkowski> between himself and Jon they got it working
[10:08] <popey> the bug has a fix
[10:08] <popey> one line
[10:08] <czajkowski> aye we didnt have the bug last night
[10:08] <popey> ooookay.
[10:09] <czajkowski> just thought I'd share in case folks came across others with the same issue
[10:09] <czajkowski> popey: we also noticed I've 15 11.10 kernels to chose from..
[10:14] <popey> ☺
[10:16] <AlanBell> popey: updated precise and gnome-terminal is working again
[10:16] <czajkowski> popey: aye I have some spring cleaning to do it seems
[10:16] <popey> yeah, same here
[10:16] <czajkowski> no idea how I eneded up with 15 versions though
[10:17] <czajkowski> I'd have assumed it did some sort of spring cleaning on updates itself, seemingly it doesn't
[13:30] <Pici> Did anyone else happen to get a random invite to the "Open Source Freedom Society" launchpad team?
[13:30] <czajkowski> nope
[13:31] <nigelb> Pici: I heard about it in bugsquad mailing list.
[13:31] <nigelb> Pici: There was also some talk about in #launchpad or #launchpad-dev a day or two ago.
[13:31] <Pici> nigelb: ah, I'll take a look at my #launchpad logs
[13:34] <cjohnston> Pici: ya.. i did..
[13:34] <mhall119> what is it?
[13:34] <cjohnston> https://launchpad.net/~osfs
[13:35] <cjohnston> looks like someone trying to pad a team
[13:35] <mhall119> hmmm, feels redundant
[13:35] <cjohnston> heh
[13:37] <popey> "The first sight for Open source users"
[13:37] <popey> fail
[13:37] <Pici> Yes, I saw that too :(
[13:37] <popey> "What is Gnu/Linux???"
[13:37] <popey> fail again
[13:37] <popey> double fail
[13:38] <popey> it's GNU, and no need for 3 question marks.
[13:38] <popey> "If you want to get a Gnu/Linux click on find a Gnu/Linux."
[13:38] <popey> pfffft
[13:38] <head_victim> How else can people know just how important a question is if you don't add extra question marks to make it obvious??????
[13:38] <popey> "Linux was founded 20 years a go by Linus Torvald."
[13:38] <popey> how can they fail to get his name right
[13:39] <popey> that is quite possibly the _worst_ free software advocacy page ever
[13:39] <AlanBell> oh dear /o\
[13:39] <Pici> Poor guy
[13:40] <mhall119> perhaps we should encourage him to put his efforts into the existing community, rather than trying to do it on his own
[13:41] <popey> +1
[13:41] <popey> manx implies he lives on the isle of man
[13:41] <popey> or came from there
[13:41] <popey> maybe it's Mark, testing our faith ;)
[13:42] <AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~reuben03 it is this chap
[13:43] <nigelb> popey: The first person added the to team was mark.
[13:43] <nigelb> I wonder if we're getting trolled by sabdfl :P
[13:44] <Pici> Launchpad doesn't stop you
[13:47] <mhall119> it's a long setup to an april fool's day joke
[14:32] <JanC> he's already in the community; he's a member of the manx translators--and I hope he makes less spelling errors in manx...  ;)
[14:55] <scott-work> cjohnston: i still haven't made the ubuntustudio website project
[14:55] <scott-work> cjohnston: i shall, i just ran out of time with daughter's singing performance at school last night
[15:08] <jcastro> dpm: meeting in ~1 hour right?
[15:08] <scott-work> oh, and good morning everyone :)
[15:09] <dpm> jcastro, yes
[15:09] <jcastro> buenas mornings scott-work!
[15:17] <cprofitt> jcastro: can you change a LP team to delegated
[15:17] <cprofitt> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad
[15:18] <cprofitt> I think this is causing the loco teams to have to be moderated
[15:20] <cprofitt> scott-work: I have one of those this week.. my daughter has a band concert the same night of my lug meeting
[15:21] <scott-work> hi jorge, i read about your standing up table thingie
[15:21] <scott-work> interesting, but i couldn't do it because of slightly flat feet
[15:21] <scott-work> and my time in the marine corps didn't help that either
[15:22] <cprofitt> yeah... I was straight-leg infantry while in the Army... have all sorts of feet issues today
[15:22] <scott-work> cprofitt: the interesting thing is that i didn't really even see most of her performance as i get delegated watching my adhd 4 year old son :P
[15:22] <cprofitt> I have two little ones that will be going as well... I am usually delegated as the 'gate keeper'
[15:23] <cprofitt> neither are adhd, but they can get quite... ah... distracted
[15:23] <cprofitt> when they are bored
[15:24] <scott-work> oh yeah, two are defintely more than the sum of the parts ;)
[15:31] <cprofitt> thanks for changing that jcastro -- that ended up not being the issue... or at least not the only issue
[15:31] <mhall119> scott-work: https://twitter.com/#!/thinkjson/status/145155476911423489
[15:34] <bkerensa> jcastro: Would love to interview you sometime before Christmas about juju/cloud for OMG
[15:35] <bkerensa> ;)
[15:35] <jcastro> yeah dude, that sounds awesome
[15:35] <bkerensa> jcastro: I shoot you a e-mail
[15:35] <bkerensa> I'll*
[15:35] <jcastro> Fo sho
[15:36] <jcastro> are omg interested in server stuff?
[15:36] <mhall119> $20 says someone in the comments thread about Juju/Cloud complains about Unity
[15:37] <jcastro> of course
[15:37] <jcastro> "why is canonical spending time on this when they could be improving unity!"
[15:37] <cprofitt> those are the same people that do not eat balanced diets
[15:37] <cprofitt> they have meat
[15:37] <cprofitt> or they have vegetables
[15:37] <cprofitt> but not both
[15:37] <mhall119> lol
[15:37] <cprofitt> :-)
[15:39] <scott-work> mhall119: lol
[15:40] <mhall119> Whenever I see those comments, in my mind I read "Unity sucks, Canonical should drop Unity in favor of Gnome3, also Gnome3 should be made to look and work exactly like Gnome2, and Gnome2 should be more like Windows, and Windows sux, Linux rulz! Oh God someone please pay attention to me!"
[15:40] <czajkowski> mhall119: and this is why I dont' read OMG
[15:40] <mhall119> it's run when you read it like that
[15:40] <mhall119> s/run/fun/
[15:53] <jcastro> czajkowski: yeah but the whole internet is like that
[15:55] <jcastro> greg-g: I can't believe you're a dad dude!
[15:55] <akgraner> greg-g, Congratulations!
[15:55] <czajkowski> jcastro: aye tis bad on the internet but it is a lot worse on OMG
[15:56] <jcastro> not any worse than the ubuntu subreddit
[15:56] <jcastro> have you seen the forums lately?
[15:56] <czajkowski> nope not really a forums person. trying to find answers there
[15:57] <mhall119> jcastro: I don't know if it makes me feel better or worse that the Gnome3 guys get the same quantity and quality of whining as we do
[15:57] <jcastro> mhall119: this all happened when GNOME 2 came out
[15:57] <snap-l> Why are you all talking in IRC? Unity needs work!
[15:57] <jcastro> it's just the usual rage quitting internet guy
[15:58] <jcastro> People used to get this upset because the gnome panel in gnome 2.x didn't support things like the ability to set the panel background to be cheese like in 1.x
[15:58] <jcastro> and by cheese I mean, the dairy product
[15:58] <mhall119> heh
[15:58] <snap-l> jcastro: I still miss that.
[15:58] <jcastro> yes, in GNOME 1.x you could set the panel to look like swiss cheese
[15:58] <snap-l> and by miss that, I mean I completely forgot that you could do that.
[15:59] <mhall119> an important usability feature, to be sure
[15:59] <jcastro> now looking back you're like "wow how stupid, people would rather have the old fonts and cheese than a designed desktop."
[16:00] <snap-l> jcastro: I'm sure someone out there pines for FVWM
[16:00] <snap-l> or even TWM
[16:00] <mhall119> sawfish
[16:00] <jcastro> I thought that was you craig
[16:00] <jcastro> :)
[16:00] <snap-l> jcastro: Windowmaker.
[16:00] <jcastro> <3 windowmaker
[16:01] <snap-l> Why Unity no support Windowmaker no more?
[16:01] <jcastro> I ran it some of last cycle
[16:01] <jcastro> it's not as awesome as you remember it.
[16:01] <mhall119> nothing ever is
[16:01] <snap-l> jcastro: All I remember was that rockin' digital clock
[16:01] <AlanBell> just wish the designers would design the desktop for more use cases
[16:01] <snap-l> but I still ran it next to GNOME
[16:02] <snap-l> AlanBell: More use cases = ?
[16:02] <jcastro> I will be happy with a config tool
[16:02] <jcastro> did you guys try myunity?
[16:02] <jcastro> it's like, 90% there.
[16:02] <mhall119> AlanBell: you're the designer extraordinairé
[16:02] <mhall119> work on them
[16:02] <jono> hey all
[16:02] <jono> alright, meeting time
[16:02] <jono> dpm, jcastro all set?
[16:02] <jcastro> MEETING TIME
[16:02]  * jcastro salutes.
[16:02] <dpm> \o/
[16:02] <jono> :-)
[16:03] <jono> #meetingstart
[16:03] <AlanBell> mhall119: I am trying to fix an epic fail with the shortcut overlay thing
[16:03] <jono> #startmeeting
[16:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Dec 13 16:03:12 2011 UTC.  The chair is jono. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[16:03] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:03] <jono> alrighty, folks
[16:03] <mhall119> morning jono
[16:03] <jono> welcome to the Canonical Community Team meeting
[16:03] <jono> hey mhall119
[16:03] <scott-work> hi jono , thanks for the email about deratives vs flavours
[16:03] <jono> who is here to watch the meeting?
[16:03] <jono> np scott-work :-)
[16:03]  * AlanBell is watching
[16:03] <dpm> o/
[16:03] <scott-work> akgraner: ubuntu studio meeting minutes:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2011-December/003718.html
[16:04] <jono> ok cool
[16:04] <czajkowski> aloha
[16:04] <jono> dpm, want to kick off?
[16:04] <akgraner> scott-work, thanks!
[16:04] <dpm> jono, sure
[16:04] <jokerdino_> ok what's the meeting about? :)
[16:04] <scott-work> jono: who should i file a bug against for this ubuntu page?  http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/derivatives
[16:04] <mhall119> scott-work: ubuntu-website-content project
[16:04] <jono> jokerdino it is our team meeting
[16:04] <dpm> jokerdino_ it's the community team weekly meeting
[16:05] <jokerdino_> ok. i will just hang around then :)
[16:05] <jcastro> (everyone pipe down please so DPM can do his report!)
[16:05] <scott-work> mhall119: thanks, will do
[16:05] <dpm> Ok, here I go then
[16:05] <dpm> thanks jcastro :)
[16:05] <dpm> Here are the highlights of last week
[16:05] <dpm> - Short week: away on Thu and Fri
[16:05] <dpm> - Translations meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings/2011-12-07
[16:06] <dpm> (topics and actions in the notes ^)
[16:06] <dpm> - Worked on clearing up the translations imports queue, from 390 Needs Review to 80 now
[16:06] <dpm> the numbers refer to translation templates that needed review
[16:06] <dpm> - Started setting remaining translations priorities before opening Precise translations (planning to do it today)
[16:07] <dpm> - Discussed the December exhibits (i.e. banners) for the Software Center with davidpitkin and zoopster
[16:07] <dpm> - Blogged on the top 10 Software Centre downloads for November - nice to see it was a really popular post :)
[16:08] <dpm> And I think that's mostly it
[16:08]  * mhall119 still wants to try wunderlist
[16:08] <jono> thanks dpm
[16:08] <jono> any questions for dpm?
[16:09] <dpm> mhall119, sorry, until we've got a working appcelerator version for Oneiric, that'll be Wunderlist for Natty only :/
[16:10] <jono> no questions?
[16:10] <jono> alrighty
[16:10] <jono> jcastro, you are up
[16:10] <jcastro> Welcome everyone, to my WEEKLY REPORT!
[16:10] <jono> I suspect this will be short :-)
[16:10] <jcastro> On holiday all last week
[16:10] <jcastro> - Beach, sitting, video games, and drinking beer.
[16:10] <jcastro> - Doing nothing can be exhausting.
[16:10] <jcastro> In progress this week:
[16:10]  * jono hates jcastro
[16:10] <jcastro> - Call with mhall explaining to him how to do my old job
[16:11] <jcastro> - Calling for content for cloud.u.c to get past the holiday doldrums
[16:11] <jcastro> - New juju charms while I was away (limesurvey, phpmyadmin, and roundcube)
[16:11] <jcastro> the limesurvey charm is awesome
[16:11] <jcastro> we can basically do on-the-fly throw away surveys now
[16:11] <bkerensa> :D
[16:11] <jcastro> all with OSS instead of relying on a 3rd party webservice
[16:11] <jcastro> - All systems caught up on precise (dogfood all the way baby)
[16:11] <jcastro> - Swag for juju contributors almost sorted.
[16:11] <jcastro> - Email all caught up, burndown doing awesome, trello boards up to date, metal cranking, etc.
[16:11] <jcastro> questions?
[16:12] <mhall119> feet sore?
[16:12] <jcastro> indeed
[16:12] <jcastro> (standing desk report will be a blog entry)
[16:12]  * jono hates jcastro
[16:12] <jcastro> oh one more thing
[16:12] <mhall119> lol
[16:12] <jcastro> I am here for 2 weeks
[16:12] <jcastro> the week after xmas and before new years I am on a cruise, so if you need something from me, send it now.
[16:13] <mhall119> I need a cruise
[16:13] <jono> thanks jcastro!
[16:13] <jono> ok, my turn
[16:13] <jono>  * Off work for two days last week, so less done this week than usual.
[16:13] <jono>  * Usual team meetings. Daniel is off work this week for a few days.
[16:13] <jono> I am looking at ways to slim down my call list
[16:13] <jono> it is getting a bit out of hand
[16:14] <jono>  * Finalized all the team's vacation over the remainder of the year.
[16:14] <jono>  * Canonical's travel has been locked down a little, so coordinated over event planning for 2012.
[16:14] <jono>  * Burndown looking great, metrics are looking in good shape.
[16:15] <jono>  * Finalized QA candidate. Nicholas Skaggs joins in Jan 2012. Coordinated his paperwork as well as his travel to Budapest in Jan for the rally.
[16:15] <jono> I am looking forward to having our QA horsemen on board
[16:15] <jono>  * Continued discussion of Qt and where it fits into the Canonical roadmap.
[16:15] <jono> * Working with the design team so we can share the Accessibility Designs with the Ubuntu Accessibility community team.
[16:15] <jono> AlanBell, Pendulum ^
[16:15] <jono> :-)
[16:16] <jono> these are mainly a11y config settings dialogs
[16:16] <jono>  * Gathered LoCo Council plans for 12.04 and released them.
[16:16] <jono>  * Been looking into MyApps and how this is resourced. Thanks dpm for the help.
[16:16] <jono> also on this front, I am worried about the performance of the ARB too - we are not seeing apps getting through
[16:16] <jono> so I have been looking into this with dpm and dholbach
[16:17] <jono>  * Started work to encourage wider blogging from Canonical staff to discuss their work.
[16:17] <jono> reached out to the exec team to participate and set a good example
[16:17] <jono>  * Meetings with Will Cooke to discuss how we the community can participate in the Ubuntu on TV project.
[16:17] <jono> I am working on an interview with him too, should be interesting
[16:17] <jono> and finally....
[16:17] <jono>  * Will be off work on Wed and Thu this week (working on The Art of Community again).
[16:17] <jono> any questions?
[16:18] <mhall119> do you know who (if anyone) is working on the Ubuntu Phone project?
[16:18] <mhall119> there's quite a bit of overlap between the community involved with that and TV
[16:18] <jcastro> I don't have a question as much as a comment.
[16:19] <jono> mhall119, I am not aware of much going on with that
[16:19] <jono> jcastro, comment?
[16:19] <jcastro> wrt the ARB: I wanted to point out this thread: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-app-devel/2011-December/000047.html
[16:19] <jono> I saw that
[16:19] <jono> and this is something I am looking into
[16:19]  * jcastro nods
[16:20] <jono> also...to be clear...the ARB is not a training school for Debian or Ubuntu development
[16:20] <jono> :-)
[16:20] <AlanBell> would like to talk further about the design team and accessibility
[16:20] <jono> AlanBell, I will follow up over email
[16:20] <jono> any other questions?
[16:21] <jcastro> jono: well, he knows how to do all of that, the issue is that app developers want USC to be like the android market, and we kind of market it that way
[16:21] <jcastro> but it's not like that at all
[16:21] <jono> jcastro, that is the whole point
[16:21] <jono> the ARB should be the review team that lets apps in
[16:21] <jcastro> but this is a long drawn out discussion that we don't need to do now, I just wanted to make sure someone had seen that thread,
[16:21] <jono> Open Source apps
[16:21] <jono> jcastro, oh believe me, it has been seen ;-)
[16:22] <dpm> jcastro, yeah, we're aware, I asked Mario to post the question on the mailing list
[16:22] <jcastro> for example, for the AU lens we were just told to put it in the distro
[16:22] <jcastro> and go through the backports process
[16:22] <jono> jcastro, by who?
[16:22] <jcastro> I don't recall the person offhand
[16:22] <jono> ok
[16:22] <jcastro> but I can investigate
[16:23] <jono> ok, I think we have a wrap
[16:23] <jono> thanks everyone
[16:23] <jono> #endmeeting
[16:23] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Dec 13 16:23:21 2011 UTC.
[16:23] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-community-team/2011/ubuntu-community-team.2011-12-13-16.03.moin.txt
[16:24] <AlanBell> mhall119: this is the epic fail I was mentioning before the meeting https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/855532
[16:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 855532 in unity "Keyboard shotcut - Add keyboard shortcut hint overlay that is displayed when a user presses and holds the Super key" [High,In progress]
[16:25] <AlanBell> it is a really pretty looking overlay when holding the super button with all the keyboard shorcuts on it, highly valuable information to screen reader users and by design completely inaccessible
[16:27] <AlanBell> I would like the design team to actually spend an hour or so using orca, maybe a little training workshop on it
[16:27] <AlanBell> then they could with no additional effort design the desktop to sound as pretty as it looks
[16:27] <mhall119> AlanBell: sounds good, but the last time I tried to use Orca is failed miserably and made everything unusably slow too
[16:28] <AlanBell> works fine for me on an atom processor under oneiric and precise
[16:28]  * bkerensa facepalms at Royal Mail
[16:29] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/orca.out is what orca says when going through the ubiquity installer. It is not pretty.
[16:29] <mhall119> AlanBell: last time I tried I think I was on a P4, with Lucid or Maverick
[16:29] <AlanBell> time to try again then :)
[16:30] <mhall119> probably
[16:30] <mhall119> but the experience didn't exactly motivate me to work hard on making things Orca accessible
[16:31] <AlanBell> good job you don't need to use it full time then
[16:31] <AlanBell> I have a dummy speech dispatcher plugin that I am going to make easier to use that instead of passing to the speech synth outputs to a file in /tmp
[16:32] <AlanBell> the idea being that it is easy to get a transcript of the output for filing bugs
[16:32] <mhall119> AlanBell: my point was that I *wanted* to make stuff accessible, but found the experience of trying to test accessibility discouraging
[16:33] <mhall119> AlanBell: is there any way of setting up automated testing for accessibility?
[16:43] <AlanBell> yes, most automated testing uses the accessibility apis
[16:44] <AlanBell> which is why ubiquity was reading out internal widget lables all through oneiric dev cycle
[16:45] <jcastro> <--- lunching
[16:45] <mhall119> AlanBell: so can accessibility test cases be added to the shortcuts overlay codebase?
[16:46] <mhall119> specifically, would they catch the "can't navigate the widgets while holding down Super"
[16:46] <mhall119> use case
[16:46] <AlanBell> no
[16:46] <AlanBell> because it is broken by design
[16:46] <mhall119> ok
[16:47] <AlanBell> the design is that the overlay does not accept focus
[16:47] <mhall119> ok, I understand now
[16:48] <mhall119> what's the reason for it not accepting focus?
[16:49] <AlanBell> prettier not to I guess
[16:49] <mhall119> focus isn't necessarily a visual thing though is it?
[16:50] <AlanBell> not really and orca can wander about windows reading stuff separate from the input cursor position
[16:50] <mhall119> ok
[16:50] <AlanBell> however it can't get any context in that window
[18:47] <jcastro> jono: heya
[18:47] <jcastro> jono: if you've got time today post-lunch, I'd like to have a quick call
[18:53] <jono> jcastro, np
[20:38] <bkerensa> jcastro: Sent you the interview questions.... :) Look forward to your responses.... Thanks in advance btw
[20:52] <jono> jcastro, want to chat now?
[21:02] <jcastro> jono: sure!
[21:04] <jono> jcastro, one sec
[21:06] <jono> jcastro, mic issues, lets do phone
[21:06] <jono> will call in one sec
[21:06] <jcastro> sure
[21:18] <jono> mhall119, around?
[21:25] <mhall119> jono: yeah
[21:25] <jono> mhall119, can we have a quick call?
[21:27] <mhall119> sure, skype, G+ or mumble?
[21:27] <mhall119> or do you still need the 20th century tech?
[21:27] <jono> mhall119, can I call your phone?
[21:28] <jono> I am having mic issues here
[21:56] <jcastro> mhall119: the phone is from the 19th century
[21:56] <jcastro> and with that snarky comment.
[21:56] <jcastro> <-- EOD
[21:56] <jcastro> mhall119: feet only mildly sore today
[21:56] <mhall119> jcastro: not the cell phone