[06:41] <jussi> I also like the idea of cafe channels. it gives a more personable feel and a better idea of what the channel is for.
[12:29] <Fuchs> for drinking coffee?
[12:30] <Fuchs> I think having a consistent naming scheme is more important, but one could use forwarding for that, since it all stays in the ubuntu namespace anyway
[12:30] <popey> #ubuntu-bikeshed ☺
[12:36] <Myrtti> #ubuntu-yakshaving
[12:39] <popey> ☺
[12:52] <Fuchs> well, that way it could be adapted to local customs as well
[12:52] <Fuchs> #ubuntu-de-trinkhalle, #ubuntu-ie-pub, #ubuntu-fr-cafe  ...
[12:52]  * Fuchs runs
[18:08] <ubot2> Nafallo called the ops in #ubuntu-se-ops ()
[18:08] <Nafallo> no! no it didn't!
[18:08] <Nafallo> jpds didn't set the correct database ;-)
[18:09] <ubot2> Nafallo called the ops in #ubuntu-se-ops ()
[18:09] <Nafallo> jpds: ^-- please stop that ;-)
[18:10] <jpds> Oh, right; it was set for #ubuntu-se, not -ops.
[18:10] <Nafallo> oh. doh.
[18:16] <Nafallo> jpds: it all works like I want it to! thanks.
[18:16] <jpds> \o/
[18:18] <Unit193> ubot5: info ubuntu-desktop oneiric | Can someone with power add Oneiric to ubot5?
[21:50] <Myrtti> oh man, what drama
[21:50] <Fuchs> ?
[21:50]  * Fuchs steals some cheesecake
[21:50] <amelia> Myrtti: you're following our "meeting"?
[21:50] <Myrtti> yeah
[21:51] <amelia> Myrtti: i hear you.
[21:51] <Myrtti> I have a twitch in my arm and it wants to manifest in slapping people
[21:51]  * Fuchs flees
[21:51] <amelia> Myrtti: i don't even want to be there, but i'm sick and tired of that shit. just dump the channel and move on.
[21:55] <m4v> ?
[21:56] <amelia> m4v: sweden is screwing things up again..
[21:59] <m4v> ah, ok.
[21:59] <amelia> as usual... maybe i should move to another country so i can join another loco... :S
[22:01] <Myrtti> must... not... use... the... fist... of...
[22:01] <Myrtti> DEATH
[22:01] <amelia> haha
[22:03] <Myrtti> I kinda tried to be a mediator but I guess my swedish isn't good enough and the attitudes are just so foul I can't work with these people
[22:03] <Myrtti> just want to scream that they don't get the point
[22:03] <amelia> i hear you, and there's nothing wrong with my swedish. :P
[22:04] <Myrtti> what a fail
[22:04] <Myrtti> now they think they are voting on keeping the channel as it is
[22:04] <amelia> hahaha
[22:04] <Myrtti> while the previous vote hasn't been finished
[22:05] <amelia> I guess me and nafallo will have a great talk with someone from IRC Council soon.. :(
[22:05] <Myrtti> Reductio ad Hitlerum played
[22:06] <Myrtti> discussion over.
[22:09] <Myrtti> burn it all in fire
[22:09] <Myrtti> oh man
[22:09]  * Fuchs hands Myrtti some calming tea
[22:10] <Myrtti> does anyone have alphabet blocks handy
[22:10] <Myrtti> seems like some stuff needs to be spelled out
[22:11] <amelia> haha
[22:12] <Myrtti> if I had been given a euro every time they need to be explained why the channel can't stay as it is, I'd be rich
[22:14] <amelia> if i had been given a euro everytime I have to explain it i'd be rich.
[22:17] <Myrtti> I can't understand how it can be so difficult to understand, shutting it down will not mean that it will be free for all again, it means it will be shut down and nobody will have access
[22:17] <amelia> exactly.
[22:18] <m4v> ok, I have to ask now, what needs to change?
[22:18]  * m4v gives an euro to Myrtti
[22:18] <amelia> haha
[22:20] <Myrtti> m4v: the -se-offtopic has been, as I've been told, flying under the radar of the Swedish community as a whole, and it has had little or no connection to the actual -se channel. It's been run by different people, and it has had absolutely no connection to CoC or IRC guidelines
[22:20] <Myrtti> so now people are protesting when the community has finally noticed that it exists, noticed that discussions about drugs, porn, warez, etc are common, and decide to pull the plug
[22:21] <Myrtti> basically the old residents are knocking on the door of the LoCo leaders with torches and pitchforks, because their playground has been taken away
[22:22] <pangolin> I don't see what the problem is, why doesn't -se loco ask the ircc to take back the channel (with assistance from freenode) and settle the problem.
[22:22] <Myrtti> the channel has already been taken over
[22:22] <Myrtti> that's not the problem
[22:22] <m4v> well, they should have picked a playground outside ubuntu's namespace, shouldn't they?
[22:22] <amelia> -se loco already owns the channel, the channel founder gave it away.
[22:22] <amelia> m4v: that's exactlly my point.
[22:22] <Myrtti> the problem is that the oldtimers feel cheated and play the Godwin card
[22:23] <Myrtti> "this is nazism, you're banning free speech, we want our channel back, you cheated!"
[22:23] <pangolin> ah. Simple, ban them.
[22:23] <Fuchs> tell them to make a new one
[22:23] <m4v> oh, I get it.
[22:23] <Fuchs> not on freenode, since warez and drugs are in fact banned network-wide
[22:23] <k1l> there is enough space in the interwebz to create some other channel.
[22:23] <Fuchs> not only in ubuntu channels
[22:23] <Myrtti> m4v: I've been looking at the discussion for a month now and THAT is the part that needs to be explained OVER and OVER again
[22:24] <k1l> seems like swedish loco need some balls?
[22:24] <amelia> k1l: no shit
[22:25] <Myrtti> and now that the community has reached the decision that the channel will be shut down, some people live in the illusion that that means that the channel is going to be unregistered, and let free, and they assume someone can just come and re-register it and claim it for themselves
[22:25] <k1l> ok, give me some time to learn swedish :)
[22:25] <amelia> only balls there is the #ubuntu-se ops.. but i'm one of them so i'm not very neutral in the question.
[22:27] <Myrtti> oh yeah, racism too.
[22:27] <Myrtti> I think I'm pretty much done with this issue
[22:29] <m4v> just ban them and forget about it, "free speech fighters" are hard to reason with.
[22:29] <Fuchs> http://blog.freenode.net/2009/09/free-as-in-freenode/  *cough*
[22:30] <Fuchs> they can move to quakenet and drown in the massive amount of scripts and colours
[22:38] <Myrtti> nnnnnngggggghghghghghghgh
[22:39]  * Fuchs adds more tea
[22:40] <Myrtti> Nafallo: ♥
[22:42] <Myrtti> Guidelines apparently don't apply in other than #ubuntu and a few other channels.
[22:46] <m4v> well, the wording of the Guidelines do make easy to reach that assumption, which brings us to that issue that's being worked on but nobody gives feedback
[22:47] <Myrtti> and I've given the link to the launchpad bug
[22:47] <Myrtti> but *shrug*
[22:47] <Myrtti> they decide what they read, believe and think
[22:49] <m4v> yeah, I bet that with the Guidelines reworded they would still disregard it :P
[22:49] <Myrtti> exactly
[22:50] <Fuchs> you can point them to http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#offtopic as well
[22:56] <topyli> Myrtti: iirc we are ops. if the guidelines don't apply to all ubuntu channels we're in, we have soul searching to do
[23:04] <topyli> we seem to have used some completely inappropriate language here too, let's fix that in the future
[23:05] <topyli> as for -se, the council can of course take care of it (by closing it or something) but the same behavior will continue elsewhere, only worse. i'd rather fix the behavior
[23:11] <topyli> re: free speech, there is no such thing here. on the internet, your freedom is gontingent on whatever your service provider allows. on freenode there are restrictions. on ubuntu channels there are even further restrictions
[23:20] <Nafallo> topyli: no no. #ubuntu-se-offtopic. #ubuntu-se is fine :-)
[23:20]  * popey hugs Nafallo 
[23:20] <popey> and Myrtti
[23:21] <topyli> Nafallo: oh yes, thanks. i knew that but mistyped :)
[23:21] <Nafallo> topyli: there is also an #offtopic-ubuntu-se which I'm not sure what has been decided about yet. amelia might know better :-)
[23:21]  * Nafallo grouphugs Myrtti, amelia and popey
[23:21] <topyli> it's not in the #ubuntu-* namespace so the council can do very little. staff could help perhaps
[23:22] <Myrtti> the problem with it is that it is #
[23:22] <Myrtti> not ##
[23:22] <Myrtti> I'm not going to poke the subject of ubuntu being in the name
[23:22] <Myrtti> that's a beehive I want to keep my fingers out of
[23:23] <topyli> not much to do there but perhaps canonical bringing up trademark violations
[23:23] <topyli> or staff deciding it's not appropriate
[23:23] <Nafallo> Myrtti: well, I'm not very found of ubuntu-se being in the title... but yeah.
[23:23] <Nafallo> fond even
[23:23] <Myrtti> oh man, it's *late*
[23:23] <Myrtti> tata
[23:24] <Myrtti> gnite
[23:24] <Nafallo> Myrtti: gnight :-). thanks for handling the ship as well as possible :-)
[23:24] <Myrtti> np :-P
[23:24]  * popey tucks Myrtti in
[23:24] <Myrtti> I've tried
[23:24] <popey> Get. Back. In!
[23:24] <Nafallo> Myrtti: I'll probably poke you in private one of these days anyway :-)
[23:24]  * Myrtti has a lifesize teddybear tucking her in
[23:24] <popey> awww
[23:24] <Myrtti> ha
[23:24] <Myrtti> -->
[23:25] <popey> ←
[23:25] <topyli> nini Myrtti