[00:00] <MrChrisDruif> Meeting?
[00:00] <Unit193> 00:00
[00:00] <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, Hi
[00:00] <bodhi_zazen> Anyone here for the bt meeting ?
[00:00] <bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
[00:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Dec 14 00:00:54 2011 UTC.  The chair is bodhi_zazen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[00:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[00:00] <IAmNotThatGuy> o/
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> Agenda - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:01]  * Unit193 
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:01] <IAmNotThatGuy> All of you raise your hands o/
[00:01] <MrChrisDruif> o/
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:01] <ashickur-noor> o/
[00:02] <MrChrisDruif> It accepts quietly bodhi_zazen
[00:02] <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, I believe it will set it and show in  logs
[00:02] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Focus Groups
[00:03] <bodhi_zazen> I think focus groups have been discussed before
[00:03] <bodhi_zazen> any focus group leaders here ?
[00:03] <IAmNotThatGuy> For the time being, No. duanedesign is working on the MOTU FG
[00:03] <bodhi_zazen> any suggestions for focus groups ?
[00:04] <IAmNotThatGuy> I am not seeing any other FGs active
[00:04] <MrChrisDruif> IAmNotThatGuy; I might be able to get some activity back in the Wiki FG
[00:04] <MrChrisDruif> But I'm not the Head of it
[00:04]  * bodhi_zazen thinks too much time is spend discussion how FG will work and not enough time forming groups to accomplish specific tasks
[00:05] <bodhi_zazen> How about if we start with one or two tasks , define the task, see who is interested ?
[00:05] <ashickur-noor> +1
[00:05] <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, it will be the Heads to design the FGs. We can find people whoo has time and nominate him/her for the FG and let them form a group and work on structuring
[00:05] <JackyAlcine> o/
[00:06] <bodhi_zazen> speak up JackyAlcine
[00:06] <MrChrisDruif> I think he just said he was here ;-)
[00:06] <bodhi_zazen> I would make the FG very task specific
[00:06] <JackyAlcine> +1 to bodhi_zazen's idea.
[00:06] <JackyAlcine> I've been interested in the Dev FG for a while, I don't have the time to run it, but I'd love to be active in it.
[00:07] <bodhi_zazen> Any additional suggestions for the focus groups ?
[00:08] <IAmNotThatGuy> Nope
[00:08] <MrChrisDruif> Assigning tasks like updating a certain section on the wiki (for Wiki FG of course)
[00:08] <bodhi_zazen> I think they sort of die off because everyone gets excited about a topic, like development or packaging, without any tasks , so excitement dies out
[00:08] <JackyAlcine> Perhaps passing bitesize bugs to the Dev FG.
[00:08] <JackyAlcine> bodhi_zazen: +1
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> learning to file a bug report -> triage bug reports ?
[00:09] <JackyAlcine> and packaging's a world of hurt in itself :P
[00:09] <IAmNotThatGuy> or we have many project ideas, where we can pull the new comers and work on
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> we could do a classroom session on either packaging or bug reports
[00:09] <IAmNotThatGuy> Noted
[00:09] <ashickur-noor> bodhi_zazen: +1
[00:09] <JackyAlcine> IAmNotThatGuy: working on a project from scratch is hard work.
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> [idea] can the people interested in a focus group identify a task or classroom session - update the wiki page - and engage the team for assistance ?
[00:10] <Unit193> Do current tasks not count?
[00:11] <IAmNotThatGuy> I think it can be done
[00:11] <bodhi_zazen> Other suggestions ?
[00:12] <IAmNotThatGuy> JackyAlcine, But it is the best way to learn both team work and complete development. ;]
[00:12] <bodhi_zazen> [topic] Team participation
[00:12] <coalwater> whats the question :D
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> As a general reminder to the team, our goal is to help new users, new to ubuntu (beginners) and new to the ubuntu community
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> Please help out on IRC, forums, askubuntu ...
[00:13] <JackyAlcine> True.
[00:13] <ashickur-noor> Ya
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> Invite people to the team to participate, if they are lost and need direction
[00:14]  * MrChrisDruif has lost interest in helping on the main help channels. Also pretty busy on other parts in the community
[00:14] <ashickur-noor> I am thinking of it, to invite people
[00:14] <MrChrisDruif> But I'm still answering questions when they show up on the team channel
[00:14] <MrChrisDruif> Or anywhere else for that matter
[00:15] <IAmNotThatGuy> to be honest, The main thing missing is that we have people around, but none stepping forward to blast google and help the beginner. Thats the way I learnt about Ubuntu through the community
[00:16] <ashickur-noor> Me too
[00:17] <IAmNotThatGuy> Most of the time, what people think is that they don't know the answer and it is better to let someone help. But before coming to a decision, Just search in the net and see whether you can help. ;]
[00:17] <MrChrisDruif> Like I said, I'm pretty preoccupied with being active in the community myself...
[00:17] <IAmNotThatGuy> MrChrisDruif, Gotcha
[00:18] <MrChrisDruif> I know your not pointing any fingers around, but still...=]
[00:18] <JackyAlcine> I do my best whenever I think I can help. :$
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> All good ideas
[00:19] <ashickur-noor> :-)  I also do it, when ever anybody need help I try my best
[00:19] <IAmNotThatGuy> So, the main point to remember from now is, "UBT's goal is to support the Beginners seeking help". So, try engaging some time in the support channel =]
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> [idea] Try to be more proactive, even if it is for 10 minutes, do something and solicit team participation ;)
[00:20] <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, and I am not sure whether people idling in #ubuntu-beginners are active in IRC. I see many nick idling for years without talking a word
[00:20] <bodhi_zazen> such is irc
[00:20] <IAmNotThatGuy> ;P
[00:20] <ashickur-noor> IRC
[00:20] <ashickur-noor> what is IRC?
[00:20] <coalwater> this is
[00:20] <bodhi_zazen> [topic] Open floor
[00:21] <ashickur-noor> this is a common talk in my local community
[00:21] <coalwater> what we are talking through is irc ashickur-noor
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> any other suggestions / comments / agenda items ?
[00:21] <ashickur-noor> coalwater: I know that
[00:21] <ashickur-noor> I am talking about my local community, who only know FB
[00:21] <ashickur-noor> :-D
[00:22] <ashickur-noor> Which makes me mad some times
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> FluxBox ?
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> FramBuffer
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> The team is what you all make of it
[00:22] <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, Regarding FG, for the time being, lets go with duanedesign With MOTU and Wiki with myself and MrChrisDruif. If people comes forward for taking up the other groups, then we can officially bring them in. What do you think?
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> Sounds good so long as the FG have tasks and spam -team looking for support
[00:24] <IAmNotThatGuy> Meanwhile, I will discuss with jacky and you in setting up the base for -dev team
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> great
[00:24] <ashickur-noor> great
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> Other agenda items questions ?
[00:25] <coalwater> you're gonna create a -dev team?
[00:25] <MrChrisDruif> I had one, but forgot it later =]
[00:25] <IAmNotThatGuy> coalwater, Set a platform for -dev team. (We already have one ;P)
[00:26] <coalwater> i know, thats why i was a little confused
[00:26] <coalwater> so um whats this platform
[00:26] <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, Will we be setting up a separate membership for each FG?
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> Not unless the FG are active
[00:27] <IAmNotThatGuy> coalwater, Will come back to you in a minf =]
[00:27] <IAmNotThatGuy> okay
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> Once they are active, FG lead can decide
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> I suggest open team, informal membership
[00:28] <bodhi_zazen> people spend too much time with membership, not enough time doing, and then membership becomes a barrior
[00:28] <IAmNotThatGuy> coalwater, We have a dev team, without knowing what we have to work with. So, we are planning to find and list projects and places to find bug reports so that BT dev team can work on it and help them learn and contribute =]
[00:28] <coalwater> nice
[00:28] <IAmNotThatGuy> +1 bodhi_zazen
[00:28] <ashickur-noor> IAmNotThatGuy: +1
[00:29] <IAmNotThatGuy> Any other topics?
[00:30] <IAmNotThatGuy> Unit193, did we miss anything?
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
[00:32] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Dec 14 00:32:14 2011 UTC.
[00:32] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-14-00.00.moin.txt
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> Go forth and activate
[00:32] <IAmNotThatGuy> unimix, Update the channel with the next meeting, MrChrisDruif clear the BeginnersTeam/Meetings page and post the minutes of meeting. Thank you all for coming :)
[00:33] <IAmNotThatGuy> err Unit193 *
[00:33] <IAmNotThatGuy> Sure thing bodhi_zazen =]
[00:33] <MrChrisDruif> Where did I sign up for that? =P
[00:34] <unimix> IAmNotThatGuy, no problem :)
[00:34] <ashickur-noor> bodhi_zazen:  I am not sure about FG
[00:34] <ashickur-noor> what is focus group?
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> a group of people interested in accomplishing a task
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> the task is their focus of effort
[00:35] <ashickur-noor> Interesting
[00:35] <ashickur-noor> How they work?
[00:35] <IAmNotThatGuy> MrChrisDruif, We recruited you before 2 meetings I guess ;P
[00:36] <MrChrisDruif> For 2 meetings? I think it can be traced back to the log
[00:36] <ashickur-noor> R they belongs to UBT?
[00:36] <bodhi_zazen> they work by people being active to define and accomplish a task , it is sort of a circular argument ashickur-noor
[00:36] <IAmNotThatGuy> MrChrisDruif, hahaha. But MoM is for you
[00:37] <s-fox> o/
[00:37] <MrChrisDruif> MoM?
[00:37] <IAmNotThatGuy> Hello s-fox. Bodhi ended the meeting :[
[00:37] <MrChrisDruif> \o
[00:37] <IAmNotThatGuy> MrChrisDruif, Minutes of meeting
[00:37] <ashickur-noor> Need to learn more about FG
[00:37] <MrChrisDruif> Haha, it's alright ;-)
[00:37] <ashickur-noor> BTW how r u everyone?
[00:38] <MrChrisDruif> ashickur-noor; did you just got invited for an other channel?
[00:38] <ashickur-noor> nope
[00:38] <ashickur-noor> I attended the last meeting
[00:38] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, try this "/join #ubuntu-beginners-team"
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> 'lo s-fox
[00:39] <ashickur-noor> From then I am regular in UB and UBT
[00:40] <ashickur-noor> I need some suggestion
[00:41] <ashickur-noor> my local fellow Ubuntu users don't know how to communicate in the community
[00:42] <ashickur-noor> How I can teach them about it?
[00:42] <MrChrisDruif> ashickur-noor; might I suggest we continue this in #ubuntu-beginners-team ?
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> ashickur-noor: should probably move the discussion to #ubuntu-beginners-team
[00:42] <MrChrisDruif> Haha
[00:42] <IAmNotThatGuy> Shall we move to #ubuntu-beginners-team and continue the discussion ashickur-noor and MrChrisDruif ?
[00:42]  * MrChrisDruif is off
[00:42] <ashickur-noor> I have no problem
[05:36] <laoshi> morn
[05:37] <laoshi> sry. wrong channel
[16:02]  * slangasek waves
[16:03]  * stgraber waves
[16:04] <jodh> o/
[16:04] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Dec 14 16:04:06 2011 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[16:04] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:04] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[16:05] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek)
[16:05] <slangasek> cjwatson barry ev slangasek bdmurray doko stgraber jodh
[16:05] <slangasek> ev and doko are out, so this should be quick :)
[16:05] <slangasek> cjwatson:
[16:05] <cjwatson> Some ubiquity fixes: DPKG_UNTRANSLATED_MESSAGES=1 as requested by bdmurray; armhf support; fix for next button to say "Install Now" more reliably when it's supposed to (bug 766265).
[16:05] <slangasek> (I'll fill in doko's status for him)
[16:05] <cjwatson> Added uninstallable output for -updates suites (http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/lucid-updates_probs.html et al).
[16:05] <cjwatson> Serious cleanup so I actually have some free space on my SSD ...
[16:05] <cjwatson> Submitted several more Launchpad branches for review (bug 551510, bug 118227, bug 240965, bug 383044).  This is mostly because it's clear that there's no Launchpad development resource for a lot of these things and they aren't going to get fixed otherwise; in particular it's been a thorn in my side for some time that installer images aren't signed.
[16:05] <cjwatson> Working on getting germinate output generated directly from the database (for foundations-p-image-build-pipeline).  Partly done but I need to rewrite mvo's Supported extra-overrides handling to work with it.  Some germinate fixes to support this.
[16:06] <cjwatson> Converted libproxy to multiarch.
[16:06] <cjwatson> Started on investigating bug 709363.  Hopefully I'll have more luck than previously.
[16:06] <cjwatson> ..
[16:06] <barry> bug 901840 (cython ftbfs); python 3 porting blog post; udd meeting w/poolie; python-dbus porting - submitted upstream, some parts are already being committed to trunk; will be committing more atomic changes to personal git branch and working with upstream on each smaller change.  done.
[16:06]  * ScottK gives a big +1 on the python3 porting post.
[16:07] <slangasek> I just got a chance to read that yesterday... good stuff
[16:07] <barry> ScottK: thanks!  been some good comments there too
[16:07] <barry> thanks
[16:07] <slangasek>  * sync cricket to unblock IS
[16:07] <slangasek>  * progress on multiarch: gstreamer stack is nearly done now!  maybe done by the end of the year
[16:07] <slangasek>  * following up on bootcharts:  trying to figure out why there's still a lot of noise in the numbers (10% variance between two successive runs?)
[16:07] <slangasek>  * rally planning
[16:07] <slangasek>  * working with other teams regarding the vulnerable sun-java6 packages that we need to get rid of
[16:08] <slangasek>  * merging armhf eglibc support into Debian for infinity
[16:08] <slangasek> (done)
[16:08] <bdmurray> Changed arsenal reporter light-style.css to use launchpad's status and importance coloring
[16:08] <bdmurray> Repushed arsenal's cbd since it was lost or over written
[16:08] <bdmurray> Updated bug bot to tag ubiquity bug reports ubiquity-upgrade
[16:08] <bdmurray> Investigation into ubiquity bugs not matching bug patterns / discovery of bug 901381
[16:08] <bdmurray> modification to bug bot to not mention sponsors when commenting on reviewer bugs
[16:08] <bdmurray> review of bug reports for the defect analyst bug dashboard
[16:08] <bdmurray> work on bug pattern consolidation job on cranberry
[16:08] <bdmurray> working with defect analysts regarding a bug workflow diagram
[16:08] <bdmurray> working with d3 (javascript graphing) and recent package bugs
[16:08] <bdmurray> created a team-recently-(triaged|confirmed) bug report
[16:08] <bdmurray>  done
[16:09] <slangasek> (doko)
[16:09] <slangasek> - armhf bootstrap, fixing some build failures
[16:09] <slangasek> - look for compiler ICE's in the armhf builds, reproduce and file gcc reports
[16:09] <slangasek> - llvm/clang/dragonegg updates
[16:09] <slangasek> - staring at clang, started to fix the default settings for armel and armhf.
[16:09] <slangasek> - python-central demotion, mostly finished
[16:09] <slangasek> - GCC and binutils updates
[16:09] <slangasek> - syncs and merges
[16:09] <slangasek> - gnat build for armhf, still in progress
[16:09] <slangasek> (done)
[16:10] <stgraber> - Testing tracker
[16:10] <stgraber>  - Production instance upgraded on Thursday!
[16:10] <stgraber>  - Spent part of Friday fighting bugs (wrong version of PostgreSQL and squid breaking the API)
[16:10] <stgraber> - Flavours
[16:10] <stgraber>  - Daily automated testing is now running and posting the results to the tracker (showing a week's history on the tracker)
[16:10] <stgraber> - Networking
[16:10] <stgraber>  - New ifenslave has been uploaded, followed by another upload to fix bridging (bug 889423)
[16:10] <stgraber>  - Started to look at SRUing ifenslave, will need some discussion with the SRU team as the change are quite extensive
[16:10] <stgraber>  - Started looking at eventifying the vlan package, still need to test and upload
[16:10] <stgraber>  - Posted review of dnsmasq and discussed with security team about turning it on by default
[16:10] <stgraber>  - Wrote patches to Network Manager to start dnsmasq with the right parameters (bug 903854)
[16:10] <stgraber> - Containers
[16:10] <stgraber>  - Sent patch to James to make mountall work in a container without the need for our current lxcguest upstart jobs
[16:10] <stgraber> - Installer
[16:10] <stgraber>  - Going through casper bugs, especially these with patches attached, reviewing/merging and cleaning up some of the code
[16:10] <stgraber> - TPM
[16:11] <stgraber>  - Pushed opencryptoki bugfix as an SRU to lucid, maverick and natty (bug 645576)
[16:11] <stgraber> - TODO (pretty much unchanged since last week)
[16:11] <stgraber>  - Look at the new ifupdown in Debian (beta2), isolate the fix for bug 876829 and SRU to Oneiric
[16:11] <stgraber>  - Start poking at resolvconf
[16:11] <stgraber>  - Talk with cyphermox now that he's out of +1 :) (IPv6, complex networking in NM, dnsmasq, VPN stuff, ...)
[16:11] <stgraber>  - Still need to get my iSCSI test setup online again and then look at the merge...
[16:11] <stgraber> (done)
[16:11] <jodh> Released Upstart 1.4. Working on merge of lp:upstart into Ubuntu (icky:
[16:11] <jodh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/769005/ - thanks to cjwatson for guidance!).
[16:11] <jodh> Currently we have a failing test which appears to be caused by the
[16:11] <jodh> builds chroot environment. Lots of cookbook updates (prolly release
[16:11] <jodh> later today). Plan: Finish Upstart merge and work on plymouth bug 553745
[16:11] <jodh> and bug 849414). My last day before Christmas is Friday.
[16:11] <jodh> ❅
[16:13] <slangasek> thanks all
[16:13] <slangasek> any questions re: statuseses?
[16:13] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[16:13] <slangasek> bdmurray: anything new bubbling up this week?
[16:14] <bdmurray> slangasek: no not really
[16:14] <slangasek> ok
[16:15] <bdmurray> actually bug 818177 has seen some recent activity
[16:15] <besmirgogu> Hi Everybody!!
[16:17] <slangasek> bdmurray: I think those comments are misdirected and I'm not sure they're worth following up on individually; we know that we have two other bugs related to udev races still, apw is working on one (bnx2 firmware) and hallyn is working on the other (lvm2) and waiting for me to review/merge
[16:17] <bdmurray> slangasek: okay, that makes sense
[16:17] <cjwatson> Would anyone like to attack bug 545790?  It's on rls-p-tracking, and it has a relatively clear explanation from mdz; it should be a matter of saving errno until it comes time to display it

[16:19] <slangasek> :)
[16:20] <slangasek> well, I'll mark that one 'triaged' at least :)
[16:21]  * jodh wonders what a "crashed recycle bin" is...?
[16:21] <slangasek> heh
[16:21] <jodh> don't recycle whilst driving I say!
[16:23] <slangasek> ok, well, that one remains on the list of bugs for us to tackle this cycle then
[16:23] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:23] <slangasek> anything else?
[16:23] <cjwatson> or I'll take it, I was just hoping somebody else would :)
[16:23] <slangasek> I think everyone else's queue is also full at the moment :)
[16:24] <slangasek> btw, if anyone has outstanding expenses for the year, remember that it's a good idea to do those before you go on end-of-year holidays :)
[16:26] <slangasek> and next week will be the last meeting of the year... for whoever's still around by that point
[16:26] <slangasek> :)
[16:26] <barry> :)
[16:27] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:27] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Dec 14 16:27:03 2011 UTC.
[16:27] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-14-16.04.moin.txt
[16:27] <slangasek> that's all, folks
[16:27] <slangasek> thanks!
[16:27] <jodh> thanks!
[16:27] <barry> thanks!
[16:28] <stgraber> thanks!
[16:59] <gema> hi everyone, we are about to start the QA Meeting
[16:59] <gema> #startmeeting QA Meeting
[16:59] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Dec 14 16:59:59 2011 UTC.  The chair is gema. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[16:59] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:00] <gema> hello, can you raise your hand if you are present and reading ?
[17:00]  * alourie preps his cut of tea
[17:00] <roignac> o/
[17:00] <alourie> o/
[17:00] <nuclearbob> 0/
[17:00] <nuclearbob> er
[17:00]  * alourie s/cut/cup
[17:00] <nuclearbob> o/
[17:00] <kalosaurusrex> o/ (but I might be afk for a bit in a min)
[17:00] <gema> kalosaurusrex: no probs
[17:00] <phillw> o/
[17:01] <gema> excellent, so let's get started
[17:01] <gema> #topic Previous Actions
[17:01] <gema> so we had patrickmw with one action from last week
[17:01] <besmirgogu> hi new to the meeting
[17:01] <gema> he told me he couldn't make it today, so we'll keep the action for next week
[17:01] <gema> hi besmirgogu , welcome!
[17:01] <gema> #action patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins
[17:01] <besmirgogu> hi everybody
[17:01] <meetingology> ACTION: patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins
[17:02] <gema> #topic Blueprints Update Precise
[17:02] <alourie> o/
[17:02] <gema> alourie: go for it
[17:02] <alourie> regarding previous actions
[17:02] <brendand> o/
[17:02] <gema> yes, alourie
[17:02] <alourie> how about posting smoke test cases that we run?
[17:03] <gema> alourie: do you mean results?
[17:03] <alourie> was it posted somewhere?
[17:03] <alourie> no, the tests
[17:03] <gema> give me a sec
[17:03] <roignac> i guess, patrickmw should present the list of launchpad project, and there we can get the code for unittests
[17:04] <alourie> ah
[17:04] <roignac> s/project/projects
[17:04] <alourie> ok, so I'll get back to this later then
[17:04] <alourie> ..
[17:04] <gema> alourie, roignac , this is the code that runs, as far as I know: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-server-iso-testing
[17:04] <gema> I am in the process of reviewing it and trying to make some sense of the testing we are running
[17:04] <gema> I don't believe we have test case descriptions yet
[17:04] <gema> but we will
[17:05] <alourie> gema: looks like it
[17:05] <alourie> ok, great, I'll look at it later
[17:05] <gema> alourie: where?
[17:05] <gema> ok
[17:05] <gema> brendand: ?
[17:05] <brendand> can you clarify what it means 'conform our automated testing'?
[17:05] <brendand> what does the package need to have?
[17:05] <gema> brendand: anything that we run and publish results on jenkins
[17:06] <brendand> so packages with automated tests?
[17:06] <gema> brendand: no, test cases that we are running automatically in jenkins
[17:06] <gema> is the list patrickmw is putting together
[17:06] <brendand> gema - ok, i think i understand now
[17:07] <gema> brendand: I am not clear what to expect myself either, so let's keep an open mind
[17:07] <gema> moving on to the blueprints themselves then
[17:07] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-builds-smoke-testing
[17:07] <gema> We have created a new dashboard by installing some jenkins plugins, but it is not 100% there yet. We are looking into aggregating results to show all the results for each ISO together and to show build number
[17:07] <gema> Link: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20ISO%20Testing%20Dashboard/view/Daily/
[17:08] <gema> any question?
[17:09] <alourie> looks great
[17:09] <alourie> greenish :-)
[17:09] <gema> alourie: that's wrong, today we had a failure in the lab and nothing run
[17:09] <gema> it should be all red
[17:09] <alourie> ha!
[17:09] <gema> we are working on it x)
[17:09] <alourie> that's funny
[17:09] <gema> yep
[17:09] <alourie> so
[17:09] <alourie> I'm thinking
[17:10] <alourie> is it possible to have, like, a session on Jenkins?
[17:10] <alourie> to realize better what it is and what it isn't?
[17:10] <alourie> and how do things work ther?
[17:10] <alourie> e
[17:10] <gema> what do you mean a session on jenkins?
[17:10] <alourie> ..
[17:10] <gema> ahh, like a training session?
[17:10] <alourie> yes
[17:10] <gema> indeed, hggdh has been putting a wiki together, I can ask him
[17:10] <alourie> even if it take 15 minutes
[17:11] <gema> #action gema to talk to hggdh about some jenkins training for the community
[17:11] <meetingology> ACTION: gema to talk to hggdh about some jenkins training for the community
[17:11] <alourie> great, appreciate it
[17:11] <gema> no prob
[17:11] <gema> moving on then
[17:11] <gema> #subtopic #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-boot-speed-testing
[17:11] <gema> no update today, since patrick is not here, but he is actively working on this
[17:11] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-kernel-sru
[17:12] <gema> sconklin is not around this week, but he told me he didn't have much to report
[17:12] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-standard-sru-testing
[17:12] <gema> jibel didn't have anything to report either
[17:12]  * gema has been doing some questioning before the meeting :D
[17:12] <jibel> this blueprint is not started yet
[17:12] <gema> ah, jibel you are there
[17:12] <gema> ok
[17:13] <jibel> hi o/
[17:13] <gema> so maybe I should move it to the end of the list
[17:13] <gema> #action gema to move the standard sru testing blueprint to the end
[17:13] <meetingology> ACTION: gema to move the standard sru testing blueprint to the end
[17:13] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-test-case-management-tool
[17:13] <jibel> I'll start it after https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-p-upload-intermediary
[17:13] <gema> yes?
[17:14] <jibel> because we'll use the same tool to test the packages
[17:14] <gema> ok, sounds good
[17:14] <gema> so regarding case conductor
[17:14] <gema> We've gathered the requirements for case conductor and sent them to the Mozilla QA team. Please, see my last email to the Case Conductor thread in the list for details
[17:14] <alourie> o/
[17:14] <gema> yes, alourie
[17:15] <alourie> will you have an official "meeting" with Mozilla folks?
[17:15] <gema> alourie: I am not sure, I asked them at the bottom of the email how they wanted to proceed
[17:15] <gema> alourie: I will let you know if it happens, it can be open to more people than just me
[17:16] <alourie> ok
[17:16] <gema> but I sent the email to the Project Manager because I had the original discussion with him
[17:16] <gema> to advice on how to proceed
[17:16] <gema> ok, moving on then
[17:17] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-backlog
[17:17] <gema> any updates on wikis or stuff like that?
[17:17] <roignac> o/
[17:17] <alourie> o/
[17:17] <gema> roignac: ?
[17:18] <roignac> we have started updating the testcases
[17:18] <roignac> some for nautilus and desktopwhole are under review
[17:18] <gema> roignac: sounds excellent, you could send an email to the list asking for feedback on those
[17:18] <roignac> so we need a qualified review for them in docs.google.com shpreadsheet
[17:19] <roignac> ok, will do
[17:19] <gema> yep, I will set some time aside tomorrow for the review
[17:19] <gema> alourie: ?
[17:19] <alourie> ok, so I wrote a short guide for rewriting test cases
[17:20] <alourie> I'd love some feedback for that
[17:20] <gema> you sent the link to the list, didn't you?
[17:20] <alourie> yes
[17:20] <alourie> additionally, I started rewriting wiki, so thanks gema for comments
[17:20] <roignac> alourie, I've been using it, seems rather useful, thanks
[17:20] <alourie> I'd like to have more feedback for wiki as well!
[17:20] <gema> ok, it may be good if you asked for the feedback on a more formal email
[17:20] <alourie> but overall, I see it progressing well
[17:21] <alourie> gema: I have
[17:21] <gema> alourie: it may help if you say this is the guide , and I would like to have feedback by the end of this week or so
[17:21] <alourie> or, rather, you mean more formal that the one I sent?
[17:21] <gema> sothat people know when is the deadline
[17:21] <gema> yep
[17:21] <gema> a formal review request
[17:21] <alourie> ah
[17:21] <alourie> ok
[17:21] <gema> so that fromt he topic of the email, it sounds like there's work to do
[17:21]  * alourie wrotes himself to set deadlines
[17:21] <gema> if you know what I mean
[17:22] <alourie> yes, sure
[17:22] <gema> it is just an orientation, but tends to give people a sense of urgency :)
[17:22] <alourie> indeed :-)
[17:22] <gema> ok, I will send you feedback on that tomorrow too
[17:22] <alourie> great, thank you
[17:23] <gema> hggdh: are you around?
[17:23] <alourie> so, I will continue working on these items with mail list, it feel it is better for brainstorming and pushing ideas back and forth
[17:23] <gema> alourie: agreed
[17:23] <alourie> additionally, I may write a general guide for writing test cases
[17:23] <alourie> I think we need something like that
[17:23] <gema> I thought that is what you wrote on that wiki
[17:24] <alourie> that wiki is more "rewriting" oriented, not a generic one
[17:24] <gema> ahh, ok
[17:24] <gema> sounds good then
[17:24] <alourie> it could be a basis for the generic document
[17:24] <gema> ok, excellent
[17:24] <alourie> I'm done
[17:24] <alourie> ..
[17:24] <gema> so, on behalf of hggdh , this is the jenkins documentation he has written:
[17:25] <gema> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/UnderstandingJenkinsResults
[17:25] <brendand> o/
[17:25] <gema> let us know on the list if there's anything that you don't understand or so
[17:25] <gema> brendand: ?
[17:25] <brendand> i wanted to comment on the test cases re-write a bit
[17:25] <gema> ok, go for it, I was done with jenkins anyway :)
[17:26] <brendand> should we be taking the opportunity now to split test cases out where they need to be?
[17:26] <gema> I think so
[17:26] <brendand> e.g. 'Check that user can create files and folders, move files to folders and delete files and folders to Trash'
[17:26] <brendand> is not a test case
[17:26] <gema> yes, splitting it would give us better understanding of problems, when there is one
[17:26] <roignac> o/
[17:27] <gema> and more realistic results
[17:27] <brendand> roignac - btw, i'm not pointing the finger at you
[17:27] <gema> go for it roignac
[17:27] <gema> speak freely guys, we are discussing a topic :)
[17:27] <roignac> I completely agree with brendand
[17:27] <roignac> as testcases should be rewritten
[17:27] <roignac> so I guess, we should have a plan for this
[17:27] <gema> what kind of plan, roignac ?
[17:28] <roignac> a list features, at least, like: Nautilus: 1) Cover folder creation, 2)File creation etc.
[17:28] <brendand> i think we should say here (and on the mailing list) that you shouldn't shy away from re-working test cases where they don't work
[17:28] <roignac> also, we would need an updated list of application, included in base Ubuntu installation
[17:29] <roignac> as writing testcases for Banshee should get less priority than Rhythmbox, as rhythmbox is default one
[17:29] <gema> roignac: I believe kalosaurusrex is working on that
[17:29] <roignac> gema, great, that would be very useful
[17:29] <brendand> roignac - if test cases are there for an application which is not in ubuntu now then they should be removed or deprecated i guess
[17:29] <alourie> o/
[17:29] <gema> go for it, alourie
[17:29] <brendand> roignac - but writing new ones is outside scope for now mayeb
[17:29] <alourie> I want to get focus a little bit here
[17:30] <alourie> I'd love to have all test cases rewritten
[17:30] <alourie> but (putting the "effort coordinator hat"), I think we need to handle ISO testing cases first
[17:31] <alourie> so that for the next alpha/beta, or when Constructor is ready - we have them done
[17:31] <roignac> i'd love to see that as a wiki page - default application and their features
[17:31] <alourie> or, at least, some part of them
[17:31] <roignac> alourie: agree, ISO testcases should get the highest priority
[17:31] <phillw> +1
[17:31] <alourie> so we would concentrate on them
[17:31] <gema> yes, sounds reasonable
[17:31] <alourie> at least for the starters..
[17:32] <alourie> so I can volunteer myself picking a set of Images to rewrite
[17:32] <gema> yep, we could also update the wiki once the test cases are reviewed, so that people can use them before case conductor is online
[17:32] <alourie> yes
[17:32] <alourie> I'll just pick a couple from each category we have now
[17:33] <gema> ok
[17:33] <roignac> i've already rewritten desktopwhole testcase - and I'd love to get some feedback on it
[17:33] <gema> indeed, we'll give you feedback
[17:34] <roignac> as it might be a good example and a template for installation cases
[17:34] <roignac> thanks!
[17:34] <gema> roignac: you may want to have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Test+analysis+and+specification+for+Ubiquity.pdf
[17:34] <gema> in case it gives you any idea
[17:35] <gema> I put this together last cycle but didn't get the chance to extract any test cases from there
[17:35] <gema> because we had more pressing matters at hand
[17:35] <gema> it may help with the rewriting in some cases, but I don't expect us to run all of them manually
[17:35] <gema> the idea is automating them in the long run
[17:35] <roignac> gema, thanks, would be useful
[17:36] <gema> any feedback on it also welcome
[17:36] <gema> it's still under review
[17:36] <roignac> a basic test is already automated btw, so others will follow, i'm sure
[17:36] <gema> yes
[17:36] <gema> ok, so moving on to next topic unless someone has anything else
[17:36] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-qa-regression-testing
[17:37] <gema> nuclearbob: ?
[17:37] <nuclearbob> I've got an autotest package ready for the new lab hardware
[17:37] <nuclearbob> I'm determining whether we want the qrt tests as another package, or whether just a tarball is fine
[17:37] <nuclearbob> I've been running them on some daily builds and having good luck so far
[17:38] <nuclearbob> ..
[17:38] <gema> good thanks, any questions?
[17:38] <gema> moving on then
[17:38] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-automated-test-submissions
[17:38] <gema> again, nothing from patrick today
[17:39] <gema> #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-metrics
[17:39] <gema> I have been doing some code coverage trialling and discovered how to use gcov and lcov. As it happens, the development teams are starting to make changes to their makefiles to enable coverage as well
[17:39] <gema> I need to talk to the tech lead coordinating that to be able to make it happen. I will probably do that in January during our gathering in Europe
[17:39] <gema> #subtopic Community Tasks - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/TasksPrecise
[17:40] <gema> Anything to report on any of the tasks we are working on that we haven't covered yet?
[17:40] <gema> ok, moving on then
[17:40] <gema> #topic Update Lubuntu
[17:40] <gema> phillw: ?
[17:41] <phillw> Hi, things are going okay - with the slight exception that someone just noticed that Chromium hasn't been building since 25th November last year.
[17:41] <gema> ok, we can get the update later if he comes around
[17:41] <gema> ahh, you were writing, sorry
[17:41] <phillw> The alpha seems stable enough
[17:42] <gema> phillw: so noone has been using chromium or were they using an outdated version?
[17:42] <phillw> as far as I understand there is currently no maintainer for Chromium, so I'm not sure what will happen.
[17:43] <gema> ok
[17:43] <gema> anything else? questions?
[17:44]  * alourie|web has a huge lag
[17:44] <gema> #topic Update Xubuntu
[17:44] <besmirgogu> I would have many questions
[17:44] <besmirgogu> :)
[17:44] <besmirgogu> since i am new
[17:44] <besmirgogu> to all this
[17:44] <gema> besmirgogu: we have 14 mins, shoot
[17:44] <besmirgogu> how do i start getting involved
[17:44] <besmirgogu> preferably testing releases
[17:45] <gema> by subscribing to the ubuntu-qa list
[17:45] <gema> and saying what you know how to do and what you'd like to do
[17:45] <besmirgogu> ok
[17:45] <gema> someone will guide you in the right direction
[17:45] <besmirgogu> ok thanks
[17:45] <alourie|web> besmirgogu: and bring friends
[17:45] <gema> we are in between releases now, so you have some time to learn how to do the testing before Alpha 2
[17:45] <besmirgogu> I will try
[17:46] <besmirgogu> that is great news for me
[17:46] <gema> in between milestones, I mean
[17:46] <besmirgogu> i really want to help
[17:46] <gema> excellent, thanks a lot!
[17:46] <alourie|web> besmirgogu: excellent, thanks
[17:46] <gema> I have to move on now, since charlie doesn't seem to be around
[17:46] <gema> and we need to wrap up the meeting
[17:46] <gema> #topic Update Ubuntu
[17:47] <gema> jibel: do you have anything to say here?
[17:48] <gema> ok, so moving on then
[17:48] <gema> #topic Other Topics
[17:48] <gema> anything else?
[17:48] <gema> #topic Chairing, anyone?
[17:49] <gema> ok, so .. does anyone want to chair next week's meeting?
[17:49] <alourie|web> I just wanted to say, amazing week, happy to be part of the team
[17:49]  * gema forgot to ask last week
[17:49] <phillw> As I said, at a pinch I will do so if there are no other volunteers
[17:49] <gema> alourie|web: me too, it is really exciting times
[17:49] <alourie|web> I don't have stable schedule, so I won't volunteer for now
[17:49] <gema> phillw: I can do it too, I am around next week, I thought it'd be fair to offer it if someone wants to do it
[17:49] <gema> :)
[17:50] <gema> I think we will have a week off for Xmas unless everyone plans to be around
[17:50] <phillw> I'll keep my powder dry, in that case :)
[17:50] <gema> cool, so I will do it next week!
[17:50] <alourie|web> yea!
[17:50] <gema> thanks everyone for your time
[17:50] <gema> #endmeeting
[17:50] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Dec 14 17:50:48 2011 UTC.
[17:50] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-14-16.59.moin.txt
[17:50] <phillw> gema: thanks for chairing
[17:50] <gema> no problem
[17:50] <alourie|web> thanks gema, all
[17:51] <roignac> gema, all: thanks a lot =)
[17:51] <besmirgogu> thank you all
[17:51] <gema> have a good night everyone, I am going to slowly crawl away from the computer :)
[17:51] <phillw> tc - i have another meeting in 2 hours!
[18:01]  * bdmurray waves
[18:01]  * jsalisbury o/
[18:03] <bdmurray> #start-meeting
[18:03] <bdmurray> #startmeeting
[18:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Dec 14 18:03:32 2011 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[18:03] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:03] <bdmurray> Hi, its time for the weekly "Bugs" meeting
[18:03] <bdmurray> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meetings
[18:05] <bdmurray> #topic Previous Actions
[18:05] <bdmurray> ACTION: bdmurray update the topic in #ubuntu-bugs regarding meetings: DONE
[18:05] <bdmurray> ACTION: bdmurray send bugs meeting announcement before the next meeting - that didn't get done
[18:05] <bdmurray> #topic Engineering Team Bug Status
[18:06] <jsalisbury> From the kernel side, no specific bug to report.  However, a report on new kernel bugs can be found at:
[18:07] <jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
[18:07] <bdmurray> I saw that bug 894768 is fixed which is great
[18:08] <jsalisbury> yes that was an important bug that was found during iso-testing
[18:08] <bdmurray> bug 850264 is still being worked on
[18:09] <bdmurray> I've written a bug pattern for that but it only matches english error messages
[18:09] <bdmurray> so there may be some more duplicates hiding
[18:10] <bdmurray> pedro_: do you have anything?
[18:10] <pedro_> m nope nothing on the top of my head, i've been doing cleanup in some products like rhythmbox brasero, quite a lot of unattended bugs there
[18:12] <bdmurray> pedro_: oh, that reminds me of bug 737598
[18:13] <bdmurray> oh, that was really a question in the last comment.
[18:14] <bdmurray> pedro_: I actually don't see a package hook for rhythmbox.  Do you know what happened?
[18:16] <bdmurray> [ACTION] bdmurray find out where the rhythmbox apport hook went
[18:16] <meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray find out where the rhythmbox apport hook went
[18:17] <bdmurray> #topic Bug Escalations
[18:17] <bdmurray> Are there any bugs that should be brought to our attention?
[18:18] <bdmurray> I'd like this be a time when community members can bring up bugs that are important and aren't seeing progress being made.
[18:20] <bil21al> bdmurray we dont have the empathy triager now days the bugs are more i am triaging them but i am not so experience but i try my best i am in touch with kenvandine and cassidy those days for this purpose
[18:20] <bdmurray> bil21al: as you learn things it would be great if you could document them
[18:22] <bdmurray> that way everyone can learn how to help
[18:22] <bil21al> yes but here is a problem i cant set the importance of bug  can you say some one of bug control to do so give empathy 1 hour in a day
[18:23] <bdmurray> bil21al: have you asked for someone to set the importance in #ubuntu-bugs.  usually if you say I think bug xyz should be high people will help you out
[18:24] <bdmurray> bil21al: alternatively if you email the mailing list with a list of bugs and importances I'm sure it'd be acted on
[18:24] <bdmurray> bil21al: How does that sound?
[18:25] <bil21al> ok
[18:25] <bdmurray> great
[18:25] <bil21al> i will ask some one in our channel.at bug squard
[18:25] <bdmurray> #topic Other Topics
[18:26] <bdmurray> Is there anything else to discuss?
[18:26] <bdmurray> Who'll be around for next week's meeting?
[18:27] <bdmurray> I will ;-)
[18:27] <bil21al> u are the head  u should be :)
[18:29] <bdmurray> okay, thanks everyone
[18:29] <bdmurray> #endmeeting
[18:29] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Dec 14 18:29:15 2011 UTC.
[18:29] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-14-18.03.moin.txt
[18:29] <kamusin> thanks to you guys :)
[18:30] <bil21al> bdmuarry: thanks for encouraging me
[20:01]  * gilir takes a seat
[20:01] <jmarsden|work> o/
[20:02] <Yorvyk> 0/
[20:02]  * phillw waits for #startmeeting :)
[20:03] <gilir> #startmeeting
[20:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Dec 14 20:03:27 2011 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[20:03] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[20:03] <gilir> hi everyones :)
[20:04] <david_j_r> `°    (= back row)
[20:04] <StephenSmally> gilir: Hi, hope i'm not late
[20:04] <gilir> for the record, the agenda is still at this page : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Meetings/20111130
[20:04] <michaelrawson> hi!
[20:04] <kbhaskar> hello :)
[20:04] <StephenSmally> hi michael
[20:04] <gilir> hum no, here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
[20:04] <michaelrawson> hi stephen.
[20:04] <david_j_r> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
[20:05] <gilir> as usual we will follow the topics on the agenda, if you want to ask a question, just o/
[20:06] <gilir> [TOPIC] Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
[20:07] <phillw> gilir: roll call?
[20:07] <gilir> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Meetings/20111130#Action_items
[20:07]  * Unit193 
[20:07] <jmarsden|work> phillw: You waited, so now you don't get a chance to o/  <grin>!
[20:08] <gilir> it should be just after the startmeeting ;)
[20:08] <phillw> jmarsden|work: no point o/ before #startmeeting :D
[20:08] <gilir> ok, I'll improve the introduction next week :p
[20:09] <phillw> np :)
[20:09] <gilir> So from last meeting, I still need to do a summary about ARM testing
[20:09] <wxl> ok i'm alive
[20:09] <gilir> still an action for me :p
[20:09] <rafaellaguna> Hi
[20:10] <StephenSmally> hi
[20:10] <gilir> About QA meeting, I saw last week that it's more about doing a summary of what it's done for QA in Lubuntu
[20:10] <phillw> gilir: I have added that for later.
[20:10] <gilir> personnaly, I can't be at the meeting, and I'm not sure we have enough material to do a full report
[20:11] <gilir> phillw, ok, let's talk about this later
[20:12] <gilir> Yorvyk, I saw a mail about Ubuntu news on the list, do you have more news about it ?
[20:13] <Yorvyk> I forwarded the information they asked for to the news mailing list, all the y require is a link to the team meeting minutes/logs
[20:13] <Yorvyk> I'll do that each week as sson as the logs are up
[20:14] <gilir> cool, not too much work for us :)
[20:14] <gilir> Yorvyk, thanks
[20:14] <Yorvyk> Yes a nice easy job for a change :0
[20:14] <gilir> I'll keep the same format for the wiki pages, should be easier even for them to find the information :)
[20:15] <gilir> About the wiki page, any progress on the prototype ?
[20:15] <gilir> wxl, ^
[20:17] <gilir> ok let's move on, we can about it at the end of the meeting
[20:17] <gilir> [TOPIC] LXProxy - we need this tested thoroughly and working
[20:18] <gilir> Yorvyk, you want to start ?
[20:18] <Yorvyk> Can we revist this later as I've lost my notes on this at the moment
[20:18] <gilir> ok
[20:18] <gilir> [TOPIC] User - Devel separate mailing list
[20:19] <gilir> I'll introduce this one
[20:19] <wxl> sorry i disappeared
[20:19] <gilir> so, with lubuntu official, we can request a "real" mailing list on https://lists.ubuntu.com/
[20:19] <Yorvyk> Good idea
[20:19] <wxl> so it was suggested i do dpkg --list and put it on the wiki which i could have done but i was unable to create a new wiki page
[20:20] <rafaellaguna_> Seems we're moving onto Ubuntu servers for everything...
[20:20] <gilir> I think it's a good idea to move there, instead of our launchpad mailing list
[20:20] <phillw> gilir: too true :)
[20:20] <phillw> you may also request lubuntu cloaks for members whom are deemed worth them.
[20:20] <gilir> phillw, that's another topic :)
[20:21] <wxl> ooh a lubuntu cloak i want one ;)
[20:21] <phillw> gilir: soz :/
[20:21] <Unit193> Also, need to either move people or packages out of the -desktop ppa
[20:21] <gilir> one question remain, do we stay with 1 mailing list, or do we split between devel and users ?
[20:22] <phillw> gilir: I'd go for splitting it.
[20:22] <michaelrawson> I say devel and users.
[20:22] <Unit193> I'd vote for split
[20:22] <gilir> Unit193, we can keep the PPA, I just plan to move the mailing list
[20:22] <wxl> meh i'd say otherwise
[20:22] <Yorvyk> The problem with splitting them is things tend to get cross posted with a small team.  This can be seen on the LXDE lists.
[20:22] <wxl> i agree with the logic of organizing but the traffic is so low it's almost pointless, at least at this point.
[20:22] <phillw> wxl: you can be member of both
[20:23] <StephenSmally> i think split the mailing lists is a good idea
[20:23] <wxl> +1 Yorvyk
[20:23] <rafaellaguna_> mee too
[20:23] <wxl> (tho i do understand phillw's point)
[20:23] <wxl> in general i'm not a big fan of mailing lists anyways so i'm jaded. nevermind me ;)
[20:23] <phillw> general support questions and dev's chatting are two different animals.
[20:24] <gilir> well, I think like Yorvyk, there is still low traffic, and it's nice to have everyones in the same place
[20:24] <wxl> there is often overlap
[20:24] <wxl> especially when bugs are unveiled
[20:24] <wxl> and often times the devs need user help to figure out the symptoms of what's going on
[20:24] <rafaellaguna_> gilir: will be complicated when traffic increase?
[20:24] <gilir> phillw, but sometimes, support request are bug reports ;)
[20:24] <wxl> +1 gilir
[20:25] <gilir> rafaellaguna_, probably
[20:25] <jmarsden|work> Suggestion: start with one list for now; decide on a volume (say 50 msgs/day? average for 1 week) at which we will split off a dev list
[20:25] <phillw> gilir: as I said, there is nothing to stop devs being on the general mailing list. It just reduces chatter for the devs. But, as always in lubuntu - we do what the devs want / need :)
[20:26] <gilir> jmarsden|work, it sounds like a good plan
[20:26] <Yorvyk> One list and see how it goes.
[20:26] <michaelrawson> Although I agree, I think it needs to be handled in a way that doesn't make ordinary users feel it's "us and them".
[20:26] <gilir> phillw, I don't have a strong feeling about this :)
[20:27] <wxl> should we vote? ;)
[20:27] <Yorvyk> Is it easy to transfer everybody from launchpad to https://lists.ubuntu.com/  or will we have to subscribe to the new list
[20:27] <StephenSmally> IMHO the problem is that if a new user use the mailing list, will see a lot of devs threads, and can feel confused (just like "What the hell are they talking about!")
[20:27] <phillw> michaelrawson: any 'us' (user) can mail to 'them' (devs)
[20:27] <wxl> i don't see a lot of dev threads at all
[20:27] <gilir> Yorvyk, subscription, but maybe we can subscribe lubuntu-desktop mailing list for the transition
[20:27] <wxl> i see the occassional one.. and i like to see it even if it's not directly relevant to me
[20:27] <StephenSmally> wxl: you're right, but i hope they'll increase
[20:28] <wxl> StephenSmally: good question-- has the lack of a dev list kept the devs from posting more?
[20:28] <michaelrawson> phillw: good point. Although I can see the dev list being obscure, and the lubuntu support list being quite obvious. But I'll shut up. ;)
[20:28] <Yorvyk> An increase in traffic could make the list look more useful as it can be a bit quiet at times
[20:29] <phillw> gilir: Yorvyk how does xubuntu go about their lists? It's great to learn from others :)
[20:29] <Unit193> Xubuntu has users and devel
or copy<cof>
[20:30] <Yorvyk> Like everyvody but us they have a dev and user list
[20:31] <gilir> ok, let's start with 1 mailing list, we can always revisit this decision if we need, and make another one later
[20:32] <michaelrawson> sensible decision.
[20:32] <phillw> could we, as we as we used to do, pop it as a vote on the mailing list for a vote?
[20:32] <phillw> -vote
[20:32] <wxl> oh boy
[20:32] <wxl> i'd rather not personally
[20:32] <gilir> phillw, I don't think it's enough important / strategic for a vote :)
[20:32] <phillw> okies :)
[20:32] <wxl> if anything i would suggest posting a poll somewhere (not on the mailling list)
[20:33] <jmarsden|work> gilir: #action someone to ask for a list on lists.ubuntu.com -- who will do this?
[20:33] <wxl> i don't want 20,000 messages with yays and nays in them
[20:33] <Yorvyk> Lest just se if the devs start to make a lot of noise and take it from there.
[20:33]  * gastly sneaks in
[20:33] <gilir> [ACTION] gilir to request creation of a list on lists.ubuntu.com
[20:33] <meetingology> ACTION: gilir to request creation of a list on lists.ubuntu.com
[20:33] <gilir> [TOPIC] A POC for maintaining Lubuntu FAQ pages
[20:34] <gilir> Hum is Mohi here ?
[20:34] <Yorvyk> BRB
[20:34] <michaelrawson> o/
[20:35] <gilir> yes michaelrawson ?
[20:35] <michaelrawson> what's a POC?
[20:35] <jmarsden|work> If the FAQ is a Wiki page, does it really need a designated person?  everyone with an account can edit it...
[20:35] <phillw> gilir: 17:08:40 UTC, which was 3 hours, 27 minutes, and 34 seconds ago.
[20:35] <jmarsden|work> Point Of Contact
[20:35] <phillw> he seems to have vanished?
[20:35] <wxl> proof of concept
[20:35] <wxl> ?
[20:36] <gilir> ok let's move to the next one
[20:36] <phillw> I was chatting to him earlier in the day.
[20:36] <gilir> [TOPIC] non-PAE support future
[20:36] <gilir> ok, so there are news about non-PAE support
[20:37] <gilir> for now, the decision for ubuntu is to switch to PAE support by default, but to keep non-PAE available for 12.04
[20:38] <gilir> the non-PAE support will probably be removed for 12.10
[20:38] <Yorvyk> o/
[20:38] <gilir> an interesting statistics was given during the meeting : about 5 % of users who report bugs on Launchpad don't have PAE support
[20:38] <wxl> a surprising twist given linus' caustic opinion on the subject but c'est la vie
[20:39] <Yorvyk> Does that mean the PAE kernel will be the one the ISOs boot from
[20:39] <Yorvyk> I expect it to be less than 1%
[20:39] <wxl> or am i getting confused?
[20:39] <wxl> oh well, it's fine
[20:39] <gilir> my idea is to keep PAE by default on the live ISO, but using the non-PAE for alternate ISO
[20:39] <jmarsden|work> gilir: I wonder if that is people posting bugs from inside VMs with PAE emulation disabled?? :)
[20:40] <StephenSmally> can't we just use general kernel? (probably there are problems, but i don't know'em)
[20:40] <gilir> jmarsden|work, I don't have this information ;)
[20:40] <phillw> gilir: that makes sense.
[20:40] <Yorvyk> gilir:  that sounds like a good compromise
[20:41] <StephenSmally> Why not launch the live with non PAE, then install it if the cpu has support?
[20:41] <gilir> StephenSmally, it's better to keep what ubuntu uses, especially for such complex piece of software :)
[20:41] <michaelrawson> gilir: you could argue that lubuntu was designed for old hardware such as this.
[20:41] <gilir> StephenSmally, the code to auto-detect the PAE support exist in the installer
[20:42] <phillw> michaelrawson: he did, that's why it is there on the alternate :)
[20:42] <wxl> i guess i'm confused about this: before was pae, now non-pae will be available too, but non-pae is going to disappear in the future? i.e. nothing is changing relative to the past?
[20:42] <gilir> StephenSmally, it's probably possible, but we will have to keep 2 kernel on the live ISO
[20:42] <StephenSmally> mmm
[20:42] <StephenSmally> right
[20:42] <gilir> but, it's only a problem of space on the CD, which is not so problematic of us
[20:42] <rafaellaguna_> michaelrawson: not really designed for that, but works better on those
[20:42] <michaelrawson> phillw: I was referring to his comment to stehpen, but confused now, so never mind me.
[20:42] <gilir> of us => for us
[20:44] <gilir> StephenSmally, I'll look at this possibility, it's a good idea :)
[20:44]  * wxl is confused.
[20:44] <StephenSmally> thanks :-)
[20:44] <gilir> [ACTION] gilir to see if we can keep the 2 kernels on live CD
[20:44] <meetingology> ACTION: gilir to see if we can keep the 2 kernels on live CD
[20:45] <gilir> so with this solution, nothing would change for 12.04 :)
[20:45]  * phillw keeps fingers crossed
[20:45] <gilir> [TOPIC] Quick Update on Q.A. Testing.
[20:45] <gilir> phillw, ^ :)
[20:46] <phillw> Hi, the QA team are setting up auto-testing of the more mundane things.
[20:46] <phillw> they are also liasing with Mozilla about a new testing scheme
[20:46] <phillw> this should take some of the drudgery out of testing RC's
[20:47] <phillw> But, in the process, they are after iso testing, concentrating on *Ubuntu* specific included apps.
[20:47] <StephenSmally> o/
[20:47] <phillw>  as writing testcases for Banshee should get less priority than Rhythmbox, as rhythmbox is default one
[20:48] <phillw> StephenSmally:
[20:48] <StephenSmally> i can't still get what Q.A. is...
[20:48] <gilir> quality assurance
[20:48] <wxl> more or less, testing
[20:49] <gilir> it's == to testing, to be simple :)
[20:49] <StephenSmally> thanks
[20:49] <phillw> StephenSmally: Qualtity Assurance, before a milestone release is set upon the public, it is tested heavily against certain criterea
[20:49] <rafaellaguna_> but reports go to the same place...
[20:50] <gilir> phillw, I saw that there are many efforts to make automated testing for this cycle
[20:50] <phillw> on the subject of them concentrating upon standard ubuntu stuff, they are also going to write up a system for adding non-standard ones. Which I think will be AbiWord & GnuMeric
[20:51] <gilir> i didn't request lubuntu specific stuff, mostly because I'm not sure we will have the time to look at them (the logs of the tests)
[20:51] <phillw> The updating of existing tests is on-going and they are due to write up how to make a new one in the coming weeks,
[20:51] <phillw> gilir: you can action that one to me :)
[20:52] <phillw> I'm really interested in how the auto-testing pans out across the whole of QA
[20:52] <wxl> does this explain why unity and compiz are installed with lubuntu 12.04? ;)
[20:52] <phillw> wxl, I would not know.
[20:53] <gilir> phillw, well, the problem it's when it failed, you have to analyze it and find what's going on
[20:53] <phillw> I've read that bit :)
[20:53] <gilir> wxl, it's bug
[20:53] <jmarsden|work> So they will do tests for Firefox, OOo, Thunderbird... not Chromium, Abiword, Sylpheed, ... if they automated installer testing (using preseeding?) for a variety of install scenarios, that would be good to have for Lubuntu...
[20:53]  * gilir should fix it today ....
[20:53] <phillw> the only other thing of note was the recent mail regarding Chromium failing to build since november last year?
[20:54] <wxl> gilir: understand, just didn't know if the root cause had something to do with this automation.
[20:54] <phillw> jmarsden|work: it is all pretty much developing week by week. I am keen to keep up to speed with it :)
[20:56] <gilir> phillw, what is currently automated ? Only ISO testing or is there some applications already ready for automated testing ?
[20:57] <phillw> gilir: jenkins has the list https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20ISO%20Testing%20Dashboard/view/Daily/  We're hoping to have the guy give us a run through after the holiday period
[20:58] <phillw> currently, it is only doing 'core' stuff.
[20:58] <phillw> ISO testing is not yet automated, it is the 1st priority for the new system.
[20:58] <jmarsden|work> phillw: OK... if you need a few test cases to try, installation testing for Lubuntu would be my suggestion :)
[20:59] <phillw> jmarsden|work: you will be pleased to know that now I have lubuntu 11.10 on piglet, I have all my VM's back :)
[20:59] <jmarsden|work> Oh, good, that's progress :)
[21:00] <gilir> phillw, I'll be happy if you keep an eye on this QA stuff :)
[21:00] <phillw> and my master iso is zsync, so I can chop my iso's over quite quickly
[21:00] <phillw> gilir: I'm more than happy to do so.
[21:00] <gilir> ok, I think it's time
[21:01] <gilir> nobody with emergency topic ?
[21:01] <phillw> gilir: it was hinted as to if there was a chance of you re-starting your weekly emails to the lubuntu tam?
[21:01] <wxl> nope just fix that bug gilir :D
[21:01] <gilir> phillw, which email ? the one to the release team ?
[21:02] <phillw> you used to send one to the lubuntu ML. We had to have stuff in by Thursday for you to include it on the Friday email?
[21:03] <gilir> I still make an update on Friday for the release team, you can still send me topics to add before it
[21:03] <phillw> oops, we are out of time. Can I pm you, please?
[21:04] <gilir> the organisation of the release team meeting changed, I'll do an email to the team about this
[21:04] <gilir> [ACTION] gilir to update how the release team is informed
[21:04] <meetingology> ACTION: gilir to update how the release team is informed
[21:04] <gilir> #endmeeting
[21:04] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Dec 14 21:04:44 2011 UTC.
[21:04] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-14-20.03.moin.txt
[21:05] <gilir> thanks everyones :)
[21:05] <phillw> thanks for making the time both to attend and chair gilir
[21:05] <StephenSmally> bye
[21:05] <michaelrawson> bye everyone, thanks to gilir and the other major contributors.
[21:05] <Yorvyk> Bye
[21:05] <Unit193> Awesome, that's helpful
[21:06] <Unit193> Did we ever get back to Yorvyk? He was looking for notes
[21:07] <Yorvyk> It'll do nest week haven't restored them to the computer yet
[21:08] <gilir> Yorvyk, put it on the agenda anyway, I will have something to add about lxproxy
[21:16] <MrChrisDruif> What is up?
[21:16] <rafaellaguna_> Welcome, MrChrisDruif
[21:21] <rafaellaguna_> well, a pleasure being here :)
[21:22] <MrChrisDruif> Indeed
[21:27] <bkerensa> =o