=== EvilJackyAlcine is now known as JackyAlcine === eggonlea is now known as eggonlea_away === bladernr_afk is now known as bladernr_ === jibel_ is now known as jibel === bladernr_ is now known as bladernr_afk === yofel_ is now known as yofel === bladernr_afk is now known as bladernr_ [14:56] foople [14:57] * davidm waves [14:57] * GrueMaster yawns [14:59] * davidm thinks it feels like a work day not a holiday day [15:00] foople :)? i like that. [15:00] :) [15:00] cheers [15:00] * mrjazzcat waves [15:01] * ogra_ twiddles thumbs [15:01] do we give NCommander 5min ? [15:01] * infinity twiddles ogra's thumbs. [15:01] * ogra_ feels twisted [15:01] ogra_, give him another minute then start meeting please [15:02] k [15:02] #startmeeting [15:02] Meeting started Thu Dec 15 15:02:23 2011 UTC. The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. [15:02] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [15:03] morning/evening all [15:03] [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2011/20111215 [15:03] thats not what you sent ion the mail :P [15:04] */grumble* [15:05] * infinity shifts in his chair. [15:05] * ogra_ twiddles thumbs [15:05] anyway, we have no action items from last week [15:05] * janimo bites fingernails [15:05] ooooh that excitement [15:05] [link] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-arm.html [15:06] we could look better there ... [15:06] especially that doko guy :P [15:06] but nothing fatal yet [15:06] is anyone still missing specs ? [15:06] indeed [15:07] ogra_: I think they are all there [15:07] k [15:07] move ? [15:07] [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey) === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey) [15:07] Oh, meh. I still should break one of my work items out of image-build-pipeline into a proper spec. [15:07] I don't have much to report aside from the fact we had A1 images [15:07] infinity, can you do that this week? [15:08] davidm: If by "this week" you mean "today", yeah, I suppose I have to. :P [15:08] NCommander, well, thats quite a while ago [15:08] we had meetings since :P [15:08] :) [15:08] Oh, as of this morning, netboot on amrhf should work again. [15:08] \o/ [15:08] That's vaguely server-related.:P [15:08] and we have a shiny new eglibc [15:09] The two relate. :) [15:09] yay [15:09] really ?!? :P [15:09] [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati) === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati) [15:10] not much to report, except that we got a new 3.2 kernel (3.2-rc5 + latest TI BSP), armel + amrhf of course [15:10] * ogra_ swa a bunch of omap4 things passing by on the kernel ML [15:10] *saw [15:10] and the usual rounf of SRU kernels [15:10] *round [15:10] ac100 migrated to 3.0 but has issues (does not appear to boot on many models) so a fix and a new upload are to be expected soon [15:10] yep, this mroning [15:10] janimo, a word on ac100 perhaps ? [15:10] ah [15:10] he beats me :) [15:10] long sentence :) [15:11] you referred to toolchain in one of your comments yesterday [15:11] did you try a native build instead of cross yet ? [15:11] ogra_, in the comment I mentioned I also have hynix. The toolchain issues was brought up today on the mailing list [15:11] I need to see if that could be it [15:11] since your cross built kernel seemed to have worked from the former checkout [15:11] ogra_, no, I always built cross (<30 min vs a workday) [15:11] ad that was built with the older cross toolchain [15:12] *and [15:12] ogra_, did anyone else report that deb working? [15:12] nope [15:12] besides me [15:12] havent seen anyone [15:12] hmm, ok so much for community testing :) [15:12] marvin24 did for the old build [15:13] xranby and i tested the new build from the archive [15:13] i actually havent tested the cross one [15:13] anyway it will get fixed, so far it only affects armhf users who explicitly update, I estimate that number to be 1 or 2 [15:13] well, there are more than 2 testing the hf ac100 images [15:13] and is the armel version working fine? [15:13] anyway that's all from me on this topic :) [15:13] but i agree, they wont explicitly update to the broken kernel [15:14] * ogra_ has no armel precise install atm [15:14] ppisati, no, armel build was killed in time by infinity [15:14] as it would have probably lead to the same issues [15:14] ah so we don't know [15:14] ok [15:14] its a brandnew checkout based on a new chromeos kernel ... [15:14] so breakage is a bit expected anyway [15:14] :) [15:14] .. [15:15] [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo) === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo) [15:15] mvoe ? [15:15] ah :) [15:15] * ogra_ did a bunch of fixes this week ... [15:15] I have slight lag tonight. internetbeing tempermental [15:15] not much here, just filed some bugs on packages that FTBFS due to builder timeout [15:15] and a big bunch of give backs [15:15] doko's going to announce today that we're using the armhf bootstrap as the first official archive rebuild. [15:16] now the number of armhf and armel FTBFS counts seem to be close to each other [15:16] If people can jump in and get fixing, that would be lovely. [15:16] the amount of packages that havent been built since maverick is quite big [15:16] sounds fun [15:16] janimo, err, they are 250 packages apart or so [15:16] hf is way higher [15:16] infinity, on the real archive as opposed to some staging ones (IIRC doko used to have such builds earlier) [15:16] Most of the armhf failures fall into a few broad categories. [15:16] but thats beacuse of the old binaries we have around for el [15:17] 1) Languages that haven't been ported yet (gnat, fpc, ocamlopt) [15:17] very popular languages I must say :) [15:17] 2) New compiler strictness (format-security) [15:17] there are also a lot of deprecated functions in libs [15:17] 3) as-needed/linking issues (-lcurses, -lm) [15:17] which only get hit on rebuilds [15:17] Number 3 isn't arm-related at all, and will fail on all arches. Hence using this as the "rebuild test". [15:18] g_thread and othert glib stuff mainly [15:18] and often moved headers too [15:18] yes, since glib 2.31 you need explicit link to gthread [15:18] And number 2 isn't arm-specific either, obviously. :P [15:18] (czrses specifically here ... just needs a b-dep added in most cases) [15:18] *curses [15:19] Anyhoo. Any help people can lend before we all run off for vacation would be lovely. ;) [15:19] * ogra_ will do another round tomorrow [15:19] * janimo wants an AI that fixes this repetitive boring work [15:19] heh [15:19] write one :) [15:19] NCommander, move ? [15:19] I thought we had infinity for that AI [15:20] [topic] ARM Hardfloat status (infinity) === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Hardfloat status (infinity) [15:20] ogra_, it would pay off in the long term [15:20] go then [15:20] NCommander, he is not A just I [15:20] NCommander, i think we can strike that explicit category [15:20] *rimshot* [15:20] * janimo googles rimshot [15:20] just move on and drop it off the list for next meeting [15:20] We can probably remove armhf status from the agenda now, and just lump it in with everything else. [15:20] * janimo hopes it is not NSFW [15:21] new south f*ckin wales ? [15:21] janimo: Some odd interpretations might be, but it generally refers to thwacking the rim of a snare drum to punctuate a joke. [15:21] not safe for work [15:21] no, the windows XP filesystem acronym [15:21] thats NTFS [15:21] move ? [15:22] Yes. :P [15:22] [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander) === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander) [15:22] they all build ! [15:22] especially armhf [15:22] And work! [15:22] apart from mx5 indeed [15:22] Well, as well as they've ever worked. [15:22] still waiting for the kernel update [15:22] Very nice [15:22] TBD in the Linaro section I gues [15:22] * ogra_ is stress testing userspace since yesterday [15:22] s [15:22] Still have that dbus timeout that sometimes makes oem-config-remove-gtk shoot itself in the head. [15:22] and its just awesome ! [15:22] I should escalate that on my TODO. [15:23] feels a lot snappier than el on the UI front [15:23] sadly it still doesnt improve the IO [15:23] ogra_: Yeah, I'm not sure how much of it is psychological and how much is real, but hf definitely feels snappier. [15:23] infinity, before A2 is enough :) [15:23] (read; aqt the sprint if you dont get to it earlier) [15:23] hf = hyper fast [15:23] ogra_: But in my case, I usually chalk it up to "I spent way too much time on this, so I have to fool myself into liking it". [15:24] well, the hf isntall is the first one where i didnt feel the need to immediately replace FF with chromium [15:24] it runs really smooth ... which it didnt on el on the ac100 [15:24] Speaking of, markos should be re-running his hf benchmarks with Ubuntu versus Ubuntu soon, for some more solid numbers. [15:24] yeah, that would be good [15:25] But, yeah. Image status. Everything we build works. And (though I haven't tested it yet), netinst should work now too. [15:25] ++ [15:25] At least, I fixed the bug that was making it not work. :P [15:25] So, here's hoping. [15:25] NCommander, move [15:25] :) [15:25] netinst is having trouble finding a kernel. [15:25] [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh) === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh) [15:25] * NCommander beats ogra_ [15:25] heh [15:25] GrueMaster, pfft, whats a kernel ... [15:25] largely overrated [15:26] Currently running netinstall on precise HF. Can't find a suitable kernel. Trying to preseed around it. [15:26] what arch ? [15:26] omap or omap4? [15:26] omap4. [15:26] panda [15:26] hmm that should be there [15:26] Did we bump ABI on ti-omap4 again? [15:26] yes [15:26] unless -meta got stuck in universe once again or so [15:26] almost every upload we bump it [15:27] Could it be that netinstall is hardcoded to armel? [15:27] the last pull was from this morning, but it didn't enter the archive yet [15:27] shouldnt [15:27] And not know about armhf? [15:27] probably libd-i or base-installer need a stick [15:27] iirc infinity foxed that [15:27] (and fixed too) [15:27] foxy infinity :) [15:27] :) [15:28] I'm running it again with linux-omap4 in the preseed for kernel override. Should know if it works in ~10 minutes. [15:28] I'll poke it if it still ails [15:28] who uses netinst anyway :P [15:28] Sure. [15:28] Automation of released images back to Maverick now working. SRU testing automation near fully complete. [15:28] * ogra_ ducks from possible things GrueMaster could throw [15:29] QRT tests have been fixed up and all failing issues resolved either in the kernels or (mainly) the tests. [15:30] Nice work GrueMaster [15:30] Found config issue on omap kernels where mmap_min_addr was incorrectly set. [15:30] yeah [15:30] netinstall still fails armhf. Diverting attention to NCommander to look into. [15:30] grukmble [15:31] (less than 10 minutes to fail - not bad). [15:31] I'm looking. [15:31] Are we done meetinging early? [15:31] The armhf install feels faster (to this point). [15:31] I have nothing else. [15:32] everything feels faster with armhf :) [15:32] [topic] Linaro Updates (rsalveti) === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro Updates (rsalveti) [15:32] * rsalveti waves [15:32] not much from my side for this week [15:32] we're running to finish the release [15:32] and get things in place [15:32] but the cross toolchain seems to be fixed [15:33] rsalveti: When do we see armhf LEBs? [15:33] should have a better idea and a better status next meeting :-) [15:33] infinity: once a builder is enabled at offspring [15:33] inprogress [15:33] rsalveti, cross toolchain fixed as in a bug corrected? [15:33] janimo: cross toolchain was broken at precise [15:34] hmm ok. I used 4.6.1 so far in precise and 4.6.2 since yesterday [15:34] and for my previous action, anmar is talking with the vendors about getting the drivers available for armhf [15:34] janimo: guess 4.6.2 is the one that got updated [15:34] I think we have the bug numbers, can point you later [15:34] hrw should know better [15:34] he merged a bunch of patches [15:35] but it's still unable to look for multi-arch paths [15:35] that bug is still in progress [15:35] bug 799965 [15:35] Launchpad bug 799965 in Linaro-Ubuntu "cross-compiler doesn't have /usr/include on the search path" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799965 [15:35] once this bug is fixed I believe it should be all in place for multi-arch to work properly [15:35] without setting the paths and etc by hand [15:36] any news about unity merging ? [15:36] rsalveti, thanks. I only cross built the kernel so maybe was not an issue for me [15:36] ogra_: still blocked by DX team :-( [15:36] with the test definitions and such [15:36] yep, k [15:37] it's kind of the same state as we discussed last week [15:37] unfortunately [15:37] yup, i didnt expect more ... but could have been that they asked for tests to be written or so [15:37] and panda for us is kind of broken [15:37] sound doesn't work, video decoding is broken, perf is also broken [15:37] and a few other issues [15:37] on your oneiric builds ? [15:38] ogra_: both oneiric and precise [15:38] the tilt-linux-linaro-3.1 kernel [15:38] wow [15:38] ah [15:38] the same one that was used by ubuntu when merging to the omap 4 kernel [15:38] right, but in precise [15:38] wheer we expect such bugs :) [15:38] well, the kernel is broken :-) [15:38] uh? [15:39] as long as oneiric works as released, all is fine [15:39] so I'd avoid syncing with the LT kernel in the next few days [15:39] actually andy told me these were fixed [15:39] it was just a matter of ereversing some stuff (suspend & resume fix IIRC) [15:39] this for 3.2 [15:39] ppisati: not atm [15:39] dunno about 3.1 [15:39] 3.2 is still a work in progresss [15:39] but we should know better in the next few days [15:40] that's all from my side, need to go back and do the release ;-) [15:40] rsalveti, good luck with it [15:40] janimo: thanks :-) [15:40] yeah [15:41] NCommander, ? [15:41] [topic] AOB === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB [15:41] * ogra_ has something [15:41] please GET YOUR DAILY REPORTS ONTO THE WIKI [15:41] sDAILY/WEEKLY/g [15:41] weekly? [15:41] the nvidia tegra beta driver was uploaded to source NEW yesterday [15:41] its armel only ... and precise [15:42] ogra_, nice [15:42] i only have precise armhf around atm, and would appreciate some testing once infinity let it out of the cage [15:42] We're wikiing reports? [15:42] * ogra_ sent his by mail [15:42] to davidm [15:42] I have them so easy to add [15:43] beyond that I hav enothing [15:43] * ogra_ is done too [15:43] OK we are winding down for the end of the year so [15:43] closing in 3 [15:43] 2 [15:43] 1 [15:43] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [15:43] Meeting ended Thu Dec 15 15:43:48 2011 UTC. [15:43] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-15-15.02.moin.txt === bladernr_ is now known as bladernr_afk === davmor2_ is now known as davmor2 === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-lunch [17:00] aloha [17:01] hiya [17:01] shall give it another min before I start so the others can join [17:02] * dholbach nods [17:03] pleia2, akgraner are already here, gwaihir, sabdfl, beuno, Yokozar hopefully get here soon (gwaihir said he might be late) [17:03] dholbach: shall I start so ? [17:03] pleia2: wont be here more than likely she mailed yesterday [17:03] ahh ok, must have missed that one [17:04] anyone here from the forums council ? [17:04] hello, sorry to be late [17:05] Joeb454: ping [17:05] hello, just arrived too, sorry for being late [17:05] * dholbach quickly reviews https://launchpad.net/~forum-council/+members#active [17:05] ok shall start and see how things go from there. [17:05] #startmeeting [17:05] Meeting started Thu Dec 15 17:05:49 2011 UTC. The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. [17:05] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [17:06] #meetingname Community Concil December 15 2011 Meeting [17:06] The meeting name has been set to 'community_concil_december_15_2011_meeting' [17:06] #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda [17:06] (from what I could see, Joeb454 seems to be the only person from the Forums Council around) [17:06] #meetingtopic Review action items from last meeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Review action items from last meeting Meeting | Current topic: [17:07] There doesn't seem to be any action items from the last meeting [17:07] Here, apologies [17:07] #meetingtopic Team Catch up – Ubuntu Forums Council === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Team Catch up – Ubuntu Forums Council Meeting | Current topic: [17:07] no, at least none were noted down in the team report (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReports/11/December) [17:07] I did mail the forums council re the catch up [17:08] * pleia2 waves [17:08] Joeb454: did ack my mail but haven;t heard from anyone since [17:09] I'll email after the meeting and ask them to perhaps email us instead ? [17:09] if nobody turns up during the meeting, we should re-add them [17:09] mail would work too, I guess - although it's less interactive [17:09] but mailing definitely sounds good - thanks czajkowski :) [17:09] aye it is, and it was lovely last time to hear from the edbuntu team tbh [17:09] yeah, aggreed [17:09] agree I like the idea of re-adding them [17:10] dholbach: I'll mail them and suggest either the next IRC meeting or the following one which will mean two catch ups in one meeting [17:10] #action czajkowski to mail the forums council and ask them to come again to the meeting [17:10] ACTION: czajkowski to mail the forums council and ask them to come again to the meeting [17:10] great [17:10] #topic YokoZar Inactive mailing list culling === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Team Catch up – Ubuntu Forums Council Meeting | Current topic: YokoZar Inactive mailing list culling [17:11] Right [17:11] So, I sent the mail to the list with the list of mailing lists on it [17:11] let's play occam ;) [17:11] that's a lot of lists in a sentence [17:11] Indeed :) [17:12] I still haven't parsed the list entirely, but then again I never learned LISP [17:12] at least that takes our list off that list [17:12] http://instantrimshot.com/ [17:12] ok [17:12] anyway [17:13] There are a good chunk of 0 activity mailing lists, and probably quite a few minimal ones, and I want to know what the next step is. I assume it's an uncontroversial close if no one's used it in a year or so [17:13] YokoZar, is there a WIP overview? [17:13] YokoZar: as long as you leave locoteams out of this cull please [17:13] as was agreed on the call [17:14] czajkowski: right, noted (and I wasn't on the call) [17:14] maybe we can script something where we check the wiki for references [17:14] as some locoteams go through slow inactive periods on ml but could be active elsewhere. [17:14] Should we blog we are going todo this and let the community know [17:14] It's probably less work to just go through it manually (and we'll need to anyway for all the candidate closes to see if what posts there are are legit or spam anyway) [17:15] agree with akgraner, looking at the list there are also some translation teams mailing list in there [17:15] does every translation team have a list? [17:15] are we going to send a mail to each list that will get nuked? [17:15] YokoZar, every approved team, yes [17:15] YokoZar: a lot would tbh [17:15] sabdfl: that would be the best solution to do so yes. [17:16] maybe a TODO overview on etherpad would be good to see which still need review? [17:16] might be worth to send an email to the general translators mailing list with a list of suspicious mailing lists [17:16] I could look into writing a small script that looks if they're referenced from the wiki [17:16] If you want to just take on the whole task of proposing ones for deletion I wouldn't mind that either [17:16] I just pinged dpm to ask about translation teams mailing lists [17:18] Still there are a good lot of non-translation, non-loco team lists that could probably be axed (these I suspect fall outside of the wishful thinking hopefully used some day) [17:18] ok so moving forward how do we want to progress? [17:19] Let's blog we are going to do this - then touch base with dpm on translations and email the mailing lists we want to nuke [17:19] YokoZar, do you think you could share your current WIP somewhere? that'd help us organise the rest of the work - we could also review it in the next meeting [17:20] do we really need to mail a list that one one's posted to for 8 months? But sure, dholbach, I'll post something on an etherpad somewhere and we can just sort of collaboratively make notes about it [17:20] *no one [17:20] ok so [17:21] I think it's just due process, but I don't have my heart set on it [17:21] #action YokoZar to post to the list link to etherpad on work done so far [17:21] ACTION: YokoZar to post to the list link to etherpad on work done so far [17:21] What comes after the decision though? [17:21] IE, we decide to get rid of kernel-bugs, who do we then contact? RT ticket? [17:21] yeah, RTs [17:21] team ower and RT ticket [17:22] ok then, noted [17:22] If we come up with the list of ml to be culled I'll create the RTs [17:22] Is pad.ubuntu.com good for this? Or was it going to be mysteriously wiped soon [17:22] I can blog about this process and get that posted on the Fridge and UWN [17:23] #action akgraner to blog process for UWN and Fridge [17:23] ACTION: akgraner to blog process for UWN and Fridge [17:23] YokoZar, good question [17:23] YokoZar, let's hope it doesn't take us so long that we might run risk of it being wiped ;-) [17:23] YokoZar: AlanBell may know the answer to that [17:24] or the loco council has one we can open up a public link to for working on [17:24] anything else ? [17:24] YokoZar: intending not to wipe it, and also not to be mysterious about not wiping it [17:24] speaking of AlanBell - I think I forgot where we stand with the Planet feed update [17:25] :) [17:25] * dholbach hugs AlanBell [17:25] AlanBell: All right, good to hear :) [17:25] are we finished on this topic for now ? [17:25] dholbach: I have had some great feedback, I need to grab the config file and do a heap of updates to nick lines to bring them into line with LP nicks [17:25] dholbach, thanks for bringing that up [17:26] AlanBell, awesome [17:26] thanks muchly [17:26] AlanBell, great! [17:26] also will probably sort alphabetically and move to the bottom a set of feeds that are candidates for deletion (I won't do that though) [17:26] thanks alan [17:26] #topic planet Ubuntu spring cleaning rss feeds === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Team Catch up – Ubuntu Forums Council Meeting | Current topic: planet Ubuntu spring cleaning rss feeds [17:27] let's disucss it at the next CC meeting again (likely January) and see where we stand [17:27] ok [17:27] ok [17:27] for a Spring cleaning we're quite early - I like that ;-) [17:27] we're on the ball :) [17:28] right does anyone else have another other topic given our agenda is now empty [17:28] * dholbach is all set [17:29] Meeting on the 29th - will everyone be here or on holiday? [17:29] #action czajkowski post to the wiki and update the wiki agenda with logs [17:29] ACTION: czajkowski post to the wiki and update the wiki agenda with logs [17:29] akgraner, I'll be around [17:29] I'll be around [17:29] I'll be around [17:29] ok - I won't so was just curious [17:30] I'll be on holidays :-D [17:30] should we postpone it till the new year so ? [17:30] and just have our catch up call next week as the final one of the year? [17:31] I've got a lot going on even though I'll be around, I wouldn't object to postponing it [17:31]