=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [08:08] aloha [08:23] morning [08:23] AlanBell: hows you [08:32] kids left for school, silence achieved [08:33] good morning [08:34] morning, we will have to reschedule the farnham pub crawl [08:37] we will! [08:37] how long is gordon down for? and will he be popping by before heading back to scotland? [08:41] think he is going back today, he wasn't sure if he could escape from London [08:54] hey guys [08:54] how are you today [08:55] morning [08:56] hey popey :) [08:57] hay all [08:57] AlanBell: aha! [08:57] well, i am still up for pubcrawling sometime [08:57] maybe we can drag some other people over here if we plan it slightly further in advance [08:58] how about sometime between christmas and new years, when we're all sick of spending time with family ;) [09:01] sick of family? at christmas? Are you mad christel ? ;) lol [09:01] :P [09:02] we're spending christmas proper with the in-laws, who are lovely, but they're also very .. er, uhm.. they're very Prim and Proper [09:02] 25th? [09:02] AlanBell: haha <3 [09:03] * czajkowski hugs christel [09:03] * AlanBell wonders when czajkowski returns from the emerald city? [09:04] 27th [09:04] then am heading down south on the 30-31st [09:05] czajkowski: well then how do you feel about a farnham pubcrawl on the 28th then? you may have your old room if you fancy staying over [09:06] wow how come the uk meeting is so early? [09:06] MooDoo: to inject a little variety into your life [09:06] MooDoo: to confuse you! nah, i think the idea is to see if we can attract more people in the middle of the day as few people are able to make the evening ones [09:06] christel: oh maybe. Not sure what the plans are given house move beore xmas and coming back to boxes. [09:06] spicey [09:09] Morning [09:09] morning DJones :) [09:09] Hi christel [09:09] MooDoo: where in the world are you? are you Too Far Away to join us for Christmas tomfoolery? [09:12] so where is the next point on the happy hour tour? [09:12] Southampton? Newcastle? somewhere else? [09:13] christel: i'm in nottingham, but i have a 3 months old, wifey would string me up if i came down between christmas and new year :D [09:13] Good morning peeps :) [09:13] Wolverhampton? [09:16] AlanBell: if you're coming up, sounds like a good idea :) [09:17] me? north of Watford Gap? [09:18] Is that the mark of a true southener? [09:20] It still throws me when a friend in Brighton calls me a northener [09:20] It's one or the other eh? No midlandser? [09:21] sounds fair :) [09:21] anyhow, do you want to pick a day in January and a pub and we can add wolves to the list of places? [09:23] I know nothing of Wolves. davmor2, mrevell, aquarius are the people to ask :) [09:27] * TheOpenSourcerer is going to Stourbridge tomorrow. ~250m round trip. [09:35] only 250 meters? I'd walk ;) [09:36] I wish MartijnVdS [09:36] Likely to be ~3hrs each way [09:36] Or more likely 2 hrs there and 4hrs back (friday evening) :-( [09:37] ugh.. >2 hours of driving on a single day makes me all weird [09:37] sort of sleepy/exhausted but with the alertness of adrenalin in the mix. [09:38] Helps to stop now and then [09:39] bigcalm: note that I'm ~1.5 hours away from either Germany or Belgium -- it's hard to drive >2 hours and not end up in another country [09:41] Hehe [09:41] Tricky [09:42] FOSDEM will be a 2 hour drive [09:43] i gave up complaining about driving, my colleagues in texas can drive 4-6 hours and still be in texas :) [09:44] Aww [09:44] imagine driving for 6 hours and STILL being in Texas [09:45] I used to have a car like that [09:45] Heh [09:46] back in dallas, i remember we drove for about two hours to a friends house, we were *still* in dallas [09:47] in london i can drive for 2 hours and be 8 miles down the road [09:47] oimon: Speed devil! [09:47] 84 sets of traffic lights later... [09:49] Oh, um, good morning all. :) [09:49] gord: shoulda flied! [09:54] Asm86 D: [10:14] 4mth web dev contract position up for grabs if anyone interested: http://www.paramountdigitalmarketing.com/job-opportunity.html [10:16] morning all [10:16] czajkowski: PROD!!!!! well I'm getting in the Christmas spirit of giving :D [10:18] Hi davmor2 [10:19] morning davmor2 [10:19] What else can you give? [10:21] bigcalm, gord: confirmation of the 26th of jan for the next workspace day :) [10:21] whoop [10:21] Ta [10:24] bigcalm: see I just give and give and give until it hurts ;) [10:25] o.O [10:26] maybe you shouldn't give that much then [10:42] good morning everyone, [10:45] hi [10:45] o/ [10:46] hi popey and dogmatic69 [10:47] gord: to be honest it only hurts my finger from prodding czajkowski [10:56] popey: my spotify is dead :( [10:58] davmor2: Good morning [10:59] * popey points andylockran at #spotify [11:00] czajkowski: davmor2 morning sir, ma'am :) [11:00] czajkowski: Morning how's life down souff [11:00] MooDoo: well hello there [11:00] davmor2: Fantastic [11:00] MooDoo: Morning me owld Mucka how's life up and right a bit? [11:01] popey: ta :D [11:02] davmor2: i've a grin on my face that's a mile wide [11:10] Morning all! [11:11] Can anyone confirm the correct way to get apache to create files (uploaded via site / cache files created by php, etc) to have -rw-rw--- and not -rw------- ? I have tried setting umask 0002 in /etc/apache/envvars [11:17] Gargoyle: -rw------ should work fine [11:18] dogmatic69: Not if I want the group to read and write the files! [11:18] MooDoo: Put czajkowski down you don't know where she's been [11:22] davmor2: i should be so lucky ;) [11:23] MooDoo: So let me guess you're on holiday or you got a new job ;) [11:25] davmor2: nope, parents are getting me a new camera for christmas [11:26] MooDoo: Man I thought it was something life changing ;) [11:27] davmor2: it is, believe me :) [11:27] Gargoyle: its its chowned to apache who else needs to read it? [11:28] dogmatic69: The user that is running cron / backup tasks [11:29] !tell Gargoyle about php chmod [11:29] MooDoo: hence the smiley wink :D /me waits for the joker in the family to wrap one of those throw away cameras in the camera box with a note saying it did so much we thought you'd prefer this instead [11:30] wrong channel for tells :/ [11:30] d [11:30] MooDoo: [11:30] http://php.net/manual/en/function.chmod.php [11:30] Gargoyle: ^ [11:31] dogmatic69: I am aware of chmod, I want this to be the default for apache and not going round changing every bit of PHP code that writes files [11:31] davmor2: yeah :D lol [11:31] Gargoyle: you should really only have one bit of code writing files, DRY [11:32] dogmatic69: You're under some illusion that I only have 1 application? [11:32] i am under the impression that your code is not DRY [11:33] dogmatic69: I didn't ask about coding standards! and most of it is not my code framework this and framework that! [11:36] anyone know assembly? [11:37] I can't figure out why mov esi, 0 is used in this program [12:07] anyone how how to boot a mac mini from usb stick? [12:09] oimon: hold down cmd+alt during boot I think [12:09] or cmd+c [12:09] something like that [12:09] i didnt think macs booted off usb [12:09] then you get a choice of which disks to boot from [12:09] unless the usb contained osx or other efi compliant thing [12:09] andylockran: its alt [12:09] how do i install lion ? i have to boot to OSX? [12:09] yeah, hold down alt [12:09] oimon: it's just an 'app' from the app store [12:09] agh only 2 usb slots [12:09] i have it on usb [12:10] andylockran: you can make a recovery image too on usb [12:10] popey: ah, I did a boot from usb for time machine I think.. [12:11] "youn cannot install lion because it is not supported on this system" [12:11] no reason why [12:13] discovered this machine is a powerpc :( [12:13] had it in my room 3years, never switched it on [12:15] pretty old mac, then [12:15] i guess [12:16] intel ones landed in 2006 [12:16] * brobostigon would grab a debian powerpc cd. [12:16] guess i'll turn it off again [12:16] lion also needs 2GB RAM [12:16] had to do a ram upgrade on a mac mini yesterday for lion. yikes [12:16] i only needed to try some software out :( [12:19] everyone's complaining aabout lion being really buggy [12:19] "everyone" [12:20] I quite like it [12:20] is that the same "everyone" who no longer use Ubuntu? [12:20] not had any issues [12:21] Has the 12pm ubuntu-uk-meeting been cancelled ? [12:21] everyone in my building who has lion [12:21] in the context of my job, that's everyone [12:21] wifi issues, printing fail, and networking issues [12:22] the only issue I've had, is that I sometimes get wifi timeouts [12:23] but that's sporadically, and a reboot (~20 seconds) sorts that out [12:23] SSD FTW [12:23] can't connect to certain wifi SSID, cannot even see another one, while under the AP [12:23] other people having disconnect issues, and also one guy claims it takes 30 mins to connect [13:07] Anyone seen AlanBell this morning? [13:07] I saw him somewhere [13:07] lol [13:07] AlanBell: Not in ubuntu-uk-meeting though [13:08] :) [13:08] ooooh crap [13:08] deej1976: I'm pretty sure I've seen his nick around today [13:08] AlanBell: I forgot as well [13:08] !language | AlanBell [13:08] AlanBell: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional. [13:08] :D [13:08] * Mez sighs [13:09] ok, lets do the meeting [13:09] have to create a backport to intrepid/jaunty [13:09] in #ubuntu-uk-meeting right nowish [13:11] wish humble bundle just ran their own ppa [13:11] or something [13:14] geez, even the deb files bundle their own libraries, had to remove the sdl library they bundle because it doesn't work with pulseaudio... [13:17] dutchie: when do you return to the dreaming spires? [13:31] If I've an md array rebuilding, is there a way to ask it which device is being readded? === AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 12th January 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | ☃ [13:33] Everybody is going unicode crazy [14:12] my receptionists have Michael Buble Xmas album blaring out [14:13] * danfish tasers receptionists [14:13] danfish: bought it for the misses the other day :S [14:13] MooDoo: get earplugs or a vomit bag [14:14] both [14:14] atleast wizzard, is decent, that one dont bother me too much. [14:16] hammer fall :D [14:23] http://images.businessweek.com/cms/2011-11-30/etc_correlation50__01__960.jpg [14:23] :D [14:43] Hello. [14:48] AlanBell: 8th of Jan [14:48] AlanBell: why> [14:48] ? [14:49] possible oxford happy hour [14:53] ah cool [14:57] :D [15:48] IT'S CHRISTMAS! [15:48] sorry - Noddy Holder took over my nick for a minute [15:51] danfish: liar [15:53] I wonder if he's living off of the royalties [15:53] davmor2: he's from your neck of the woods isn't he? [15:54] I believe his $appendage imprint is on the Broadstreet walk of fame [15:54] \o everybody [15:58] danfish: No he ai't He's from duggley === davmor2_ is now known as davmor2 [16:14] davmor2: The black coutreeeyyyy [17:25] I'm after an explanation of the Gnome3/gnome-session/unity architecture, anyone know of one? It's as a citation for "Gnome3 isn't broken by Untiy" [17:25] where, apparently "just install gnome-session" doesn't count [17:26] nobody ever said it was [17:28] No, I'm arguing that Unity is basically an alternative to gnome-session, sat atop gnome3. Which is how I was lead to believe it worked. [17:28] In fact, is that how it works? [17:28] it is in oneiric [17:29] yeah, that's the one I meant [17:29] see, part of the gigantic mess that was the unity release was that in natty, unity ran on top of gnome 2 [17:29] and so installing gnome 3 on natty broke unity [17:29] under oneiric, it is the other way around [17:29] so installing gnome 2 on oneiric is problematic [17:30] Oh. no, I'm ignorning gnome2 [17:30] another side effect of this is that you can't install the unity from oneiric onto natty [17:30] and the development model of unity makes backporting patches extremely difficult [17:31] Just that what's normally termed 'Gnome3' is actually Gnome3 running gnome-session, and Unity is Gnome 3 running Unity [17:31] so the end result is that natty doesn't get unity fixes [17:31] unity is unity running on whatever version of gtk the distro uses [17:32] BigRedS: So gnome is made up of gdm, gnome shell, and the gnome apps. Ubuntu is made up of lightdm, unity and the gnome apps there are a few changes but on the whole that is it. [17:33] yeah, that's my understanding. I'm just trying to convince someone else, but he's got bored of the argument now. It's more the precise definition of 'gnome3' that we're arguing over I think [17:34] it's a pointless argument anyway, as they both suck [17:35] it's like saying "well if you don't like brussel sprout flavour ice cream you can just have cabbage flavour ice cream instead" [17:36] BigRedS: so my description is about as basic as you can get but there are a load of other things that make up gnome 3 [17:37] BigRedS: We use most of them apart from gnome shell and gdm by all accounts [17:37] gnome-shell is multiple different things [17:38] the whole "but you can just install gnome-shell on ubuntu" is the argument people usually use when someone says they are dumping ubuntu because of unity [17:38] and it's a stupid one [17:39] here's why [17:39] no, it's not at all about dumping unity or gnome3 [17:39] just how the thing works [17:39] in a nutshell, you get a better experience if you use the same shell as the people developing the distro [17:40] it's always been like that too [17:40] yeah, it's always the case that the distro is designed for its default [17:40] it'd be daft to not do that [17:43] mmmm brussel sprout ice cream [17:43] http://drool.popey.com/ [17:44] How many of those d'you /have/ at the moment, anyway, popey? [17:46] popey: egg and bacon icecream yes, snail porridge yes, but brussel sprout ice cream...just think of the kids [17:46] Marmite ice cream? [17:47] * brobostigon requests whisky sorbet. [17:47] I know they make garlic ice cream. [17:51] oooh, nice http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/raspberry-pi-announces-the-gertboard-expansion-board-20111215/ [18:08] hello [18:08] I have a problem installing ubuntu [18:09] it says "no root fie system is defined" [18:09] how can I install it? [19:08] evenng [19:09] Hi daubers [19:11] Yo ho ho [19:11] mgdm: marvel at my painful code :) https://github.com/bigcalm/Twitter-IRC-Gateway [19:13] Hmmm, I can spot some probable E_NOTICEs... [19:15] bigcalm: TYPO!@ [19:15] "leave <#channe>" [19:15] :O [19:19] bigcalm: A typo? Not as bad as some code i have written :3, Some code I write has the most ugliest code, long-way rounds and everything. Ugly coding ftw! [19:21] Yeah but MH0 bigcalm is a wannabe perfectionist, it's like a crime to him :D [19:22] Well, then I suppose so :) [19:24] comedy gold http://twitpic.com/7tm701 [19:25] heh [19:52] * daubers sticks on generations [20:06] right [20:06] evening folks [20:06] present inspiration... [20:06] Laney: You can get me a kindle, that'll be fine :) [20:07] SOLD! [20:17] \o/ [22:01] What's the current favourite for a really easy mailing list tool to plug in to postfix? Mailman? I'd like it running in about 20mins :) [22:04] mailman *is* pretty easy [22:04] horrible, but easy [22:06] phplist [22:08] oh [22:08] for actual mailing lists? [22:08] mailman :p [22:44] ah, whoops, got distracted [22:44] but mailman it is [22:44] That was my initial choice, then I realised I didn't know any others [22:46] the only thing is [22:46] mailman only takes about 2 mins to get going [22:46] at least, it does on RHEL [22:50] Ah yeah, iffy bit here might be my bodged virtual domain 'system' [22:52] Oh. That *was* easy [22:52] just stick the domain on the end of mydestination and it ignores the virtuals [22:56] yay [23:02] yay, amy and rory are leaving dr who [23:06] whooooo best news today popey [23:06] * czajkowski hugs popey [23:06] hmm? [23:07] hi all [23:09] hello [23:10] can the grub bootloader be replaced with a gui [23:11] no idea [23:20] I've seen someone demo a gui bootloader. where gui=clicky with a mouse [23:20] I'd argue that grub already is a gui [23:20] (when it's working) [23:23] tried to edit grub using Startup-Manager to make Windows 7 the default os but it didn't work [23:30] labcoattech: you might want to expand on what you did, and/or ask in #ubuntu, it is probably a bit late for the UK [23:34] labcoattech: i'm not aware of any modern mouse-enabled bootloaders [23:45] I've got a modern, mouse-enabled bootloader ;) [23:46] Boot camp? [23:46] yeah [23:46] Lucky guess [23:46] Sleep! [23:46] it's a little too modern in places. like deciding that usb is "legacy". but it's pointy/clicky/droolproof [23:48] i've never used boot camp - just refit [23:49] they're pretty much the same thing. just different applications loaded on top of the same efi [23:49] just refit has a config file, whereas the stock has "my way or the highway" [23:50] but it doesn't actually add capability, because actual features depend on the efi itself. so trying to boot mbr off usb is still near-on impossible :(