[01:31] <bkerensa> tgm4883: What have you been up to?
[01:31] <bkerensa> :D
[03:42] <Wonnenangshonat> Greetings
[04:08] <bkerensa> slangasek & kees: I think me and the lady might migrate to Paleo in January... Doing research now and getting books
[04:14] <Wonnenangshonat> Hows it going bkerensa
[05:35] <kees> bkerensa: ah, very cool! it can be rough at first. feel free to use me to bounce ideas/troubles off of if you want.
[18:05] <slangasek> bkerensa: great :) as kees says, the transition can be a little rough, but all the science and anecdotal data is on your side :)
[19:03] <bkerensa> kees: Thanks! Yeah still in research phase to make sure this is something we can commit to for the long term. I think the hardest thing is going to be replacing Lunches for Jenn at work since she takes sandwiches (No more bread or cheese) and then replacing common snacks
[19:03] <bkerensa> kees: I noticed at the Jam that there was cheese and processed meats? :)
[19:15] <kees> bkerensa: yeah, ditching sandwiches (as a way of thinking about mobile food) is kind of a trick. for mobile lunches, I have tended to do something like chicken & greens in a tupperware container.
[19:15] <kees> bkerensa: the big change, frankly, is the increase in food prep time. but I think it's a sum-win over the increase in energy levels ;)
[19:16] <kees> bkerensa: as for milk products, this seems to be very different from person to person. some people are extremely sensitive to milk (it triggers a strong insulin response), some less so.
[19:16] <bkerensa> kees: So in a Paleo cookbook we found a potato stew but on other lists were seeing potatoes black listed
[19:17] <kees> bkerensa: my wife can't have any, and I seem to do fine with some cheese scattered around as topping, etc.
[19:18] <kees> bkerensa: yeah, it depends on who you want to pay attention to. I avoid potatoes completely. tried doing yams for a while, but even that seems like too much for me.
[19:19] <kees> bkerensa: I'm less about following a specific paleo thing than just trying to hack my physiology. it happens that paleo/primal diets seem the best match to what studies have actually shown as being good long-term.
[19:19] <kees> bkerensa: frankly, just eliminating sugar/grain/cereals/juice is enough work. I like to think of it as a series of steps.
[19:20] <kees> e.g., I ditched milk itself at the onset (I think that had a big effect), but kept cheese. then about a year into it, tried ditching cheese entirely, and it didn't seem to do anything.
[19:20] <bkerensa> kees: Do you know of people who drink any non-soda beverages on paleo diet? Like Cascade Ice?
[19:20] <kees> that's why I try to be really data-driven; it's hard to measure the effect of this stuff because it's so slow-moving.
[19:21] <bkerensa> Some of these guides seem horrible strict while others seem to give room to wiggle
[19:21] <bkerensa> :D
[19:21]  * kees looks up cascade ice. my wife and I drink trader joe's lemon sparkling water thing
[19:22] <kees> basically I avoid any sweeteners.
[19:22] <kees> so, I'd probably avoid cascade ice.
[19:22] <bkerensa> Hmm
[19:22] <bkerensa> http://cascadeicewater.com/blog/2011/02/29/
[19:23] <bkerensa> I found that by a paleo dieter
[19:23] <bkerensa> :D
[19:23] <kees> bkerensa: I think that it's worth being really strict for like a month, just to be able to measure what that looks like for the person, and then see where you wanted wiggle room
[19:23] <kees> I'd say water > cascade ice > soda, so go for it if it means ditching the soda. :)
[19:24] <kees> I've found for myself that artificial sweeteners still have an insulin response in me, but other people are less sensitive.
[19:24] <kees> I think that grains and sugar are the real killers, though.
[19:25] <kees> a book I liked for giving a reasonable plan for a "primal" lifestyle was Primal Blueprint.
[19:25] <kees> http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ <- the author's site has a lot of interesting details
[19:26] <kees> and while removal of sugar/grain is important, I think _adding_ good animal fat is important too. eggs, grass-fed beef, chicken, etc.
[19:31] <bkerensa> kees: I will be honest we have been looking at a handful of diets to see whats going to work best
[19:31] <kees> bkerensa: yeah, a smart approach.
[19:31] <bkerensa> I'm a fan of the Paleo because it cuts out all the bad stuff but Jenn she is a little concerned about being able to stick to it
[19:32] <bkerensa> she is afraid if she isnt able to stick to it that I wont be able to and it will be a fail
[19:32] <bkerensa> :D
[19:32] <kees> as long as you don't avoid fat, paleo can work.
[19:32] <bkerensa> kees: I love fat
[19:32] <bkerensa> :D
[19:32] <kees> trying to do "low fat" along with paleo is a disaster because you're just starving yourself. :)
[19:32] <kees> me too! meat & eggs wheee
[19:33] <bkerensa> kees: I think we are looking at Paleo, Biggest Loser, South Beach, Atkins and one other
[19:33] <bkerensa> :D
[19:33] <kees> I think that while atkins has some benefits, I think it's lack of focus on food quality ultimately causes it to fail.
[19:34]  * kees doesn't know the details of Biggest Loser.
[19:34]  * kees looks quickly
[19:35] <kees> ah, yeah, it's a "low fat, low calories" diet. I think that should be seriously avoided.
[19:35] <kees> calorie restriction isn't useful when there are still lots of carbs in the picture.
[19:35] <kees> read through the Taubes book if you haven't already; you'll be convinced. ;)
[19:36] <bkerensa> kees: So last question for now.... Can we keep cheese?
[19:36] <bkerensa> :D
[19:36] <kees> bkerensa: given everything else you're ditching, I'd keep it for now.
[19:36] <bkerensa> :D
[19:37] <kees> bkerensa: that said, be aware of its use. some people are crazy-sensitive to it.
[19:37] <bkerensa> kees: What is this sensitivity you talk about? Is this something that happens on the paleo diet?
[19:37] <bkerensa> My big concern right now is I need to reduce my blood glucose levels :D
[19:39] <kees> bkerensa: I just mean that it depends on your body's ability to process milk products. I wouldn't worry about it right now (unless you're drinking lots of milk). cheese should be fine for the near-term. ditching the bad carbs will have the biggest impact. I'd worry about tweaking stuff in like a year.
[19:39] <kees> just getting menu plans sane without grains/cereals is hard enough.
[19:40] <bkerensa> kees: Yeah my doc at OHSU e-mailed me this last night "What I would recommend at this point is aggressive lifestyle modification. This includes avoiding simple sugars (sweets, soda, juice, white bread, white rice, white pasta and potatoes.) You don't need to cut out carbohydrates completely but replace the above with complex carbohydrates in small portions (whole grain bread/pasta, brown rice). "
[19:42] <kees> bkerensa: yeah. if you want a sensible plan to follow, I liked Primal Blueprint. it includes sensible goals and example menus.
[19:42] <kees> bkerensa: but read the Taubes book(s) too; those will blow your mind. :)
[19:42] <bkerensa> kk
[19:42] <kees> like seriously, you will think the world has gone crazy after reading Taubes. ;)