| cyphermox | ScottL: I saw your comment on bug 901945; what changes are being done to networking? | 14:28 |
|---|---|---|
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 901945 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "network manager applet doesn't work in precise" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901945 | 14:28 |
| astraljava | cyphermox: The OP speaks about the icon not even showing, which is understandable, as no NetworkManager is installed in precise, yet. Thus, no nm-applet. | 14:39 |
| cyphermox | why would there be no NM installed? | 14:39 |
| astraljava | cyphermox: However, Xubuntu does install it, and I believe scott-work | ScottL meant that we might include it in the future. | 14:39 |
| cyphermox | ok | 14:40 |
| astraljava | cyphermox: In the past people thought it hindered the real-time capability. | 14:40 |
| cyphermox | oh, right, it wasn't in the seed or something | 14:40 |
| astraljava | cyphermox: I think it needs to be tested whether it still does. | 14:40 |
| cyphermox | now I remember and get it, sorry, I got confused :) | 14:40 |
| astraljava | np | 14:40 |
| cyphermox | astraljava: thanks | 14:40 |
| astraljava | You're welcome. | 14:40 |
| cyphermox | astraljava: I maintain NM in Ubuntu, let me know if it happens to be an issue for real-time, and if you have ideas on how to fix it, I'll be happy to help out | 14:41 |
| astraljava | cyphermox: I don't know whether it's still an issue, but I do understand the fundamental problem. | 14:41 |
| cyphermox | ok | 14:41 |
| astraljava | cyphermox: network-manager-gnome didn't poll wireless networks periodically, thus it was chosen. | 14:42 |
| astraljava | cyphermox: NM does, however. Whether that remains an issue performance-wise with the processing power having risen dramatically over the past couple of years, that's another thing altogether. | 14:43 |
| astraljava | Personally, I'm from the school of thought that you shouldn't have networking enabled if you're doing something mission-critical, but of course, there are workflows where you _need_ network for some operations. | 14:44 |
| cyphermox | right | 14:45 |
| scott-work | astraljava: cyphermox , hi | 14:45 |
| cyphermox | but then wifi might not be the best choice | 14:46 |
| scott-work | astraljava: so what is different from what we shipped in oneiric? | 14:46 |
| * scott-work is looking at seeds now | 14:46 | |
| cyphermox | and you can work around some of the issues by setting it up manually, which can let you avoid scanning (wpasupplicant settings) | 14:46 |
| scott-work | astraljava: oh, is this an issue derived from the transition to xfce? meaning we had nm-applet in the gnome panel before and don't have an the applet in the panel under xfce currently? | 14:48 |
| scott-work | if so, then i AM fixing this currently :-D | 14:48 |
| astraljava | scott-work: Nothing yet. But if we wanna streamline our seeds with Xubuntu's, then I suppose we should test how NM fares in actual workflow. | 14:49 |
| scott-work | astraljava: i thought we were already shipping network manager with nmapplet during natty, plus onieric (which began the transition and might be "broken" too) | 14:49 |
| astraljava | scott-work: We [a|we]re shipping network-manager-gnome, not the one that provides NetworkManager (and thus nm-applet). | 14:50 |
| astraljava | scott-work: Hmm? | 14:50 |
| scott-work | AH | 14:50 |
| scott-work | yes, you are right | 14:50 |
| scott-work | but we moved to network manager i thought | 14:50 |
| scott-work | shit | 14:50 |
| scott-work | nevermind, it was gnome-network-admin or similar that we were shipping | 14:50 |
| astraljava | Sorry, I am confused. | 14:51 |
| astraljava | It's actually the other way around. | 14:51 |
| astraljava | And then it's a bug if nm-applet isn't shown. | 14:51 |
| scott-work | okay, in maverick we shipped gnome-network-admin: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.maverick/view/head:/desktop | 14:53 |
| scott-work | in natty we moved to network-manager-gnome: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.natty/view/head:/desktop | 14:53 |
| scott-work | this was because -network-admin sucked for people using wireless (presumably on laptops) | 14:53 |
| astraljava | I think it wasn't wireless, but rather the PPPoE connections (or something like that). | 14:54 |
| scott-work | astraljava: are you saying that network-manager-gnome does NOT pull in nmapplet? | 14:54 |
| astraljava | scott-work: No. It does. I was wrong. | 14:54 |
| * astraljava hangs head in shame | 14:54 | |
| scott-work | lol | 14:54 |
| scott-work | so for natty they were both there and probably shows up in the indicator applet/plugin | 14:55 |
| scott-work | i don't remember for oneiric | 14:55 |
| scott-work | i'm going to check the build logs for precise to see if nmapplet is shipping currently | 14:56 |
| astraljava | It should show up in oneiric, but I am not sure whether I had to fix something on my setup, it's been ages since it was installed. | 14:56 |
| scott-work | is this it? gnome-netstatus-applet | 14:59 |
| astraljava | It used to be /usr/bin/nm-applet, but it could be anything in precise. I haven't followed. | 15:00 |
| scott-work | but you say it's built by gnome-network-manager? | 15:01 |
| scott-work | cyphermox: does network manager build the nmapplet? | 15:01 |
| cyphermox | no, the source package is called network-manager-applet | 15:01 |
| scott-work | cyphermox: you said that "no networkmanager is shipped in precise" can you clarify that please? | 15:02 |
| scott-work | i'm afraid i'm not extensibly knowledgeable about the various network managers | 15:02 |
| scott-work | what _should_ we be using? | 15:02 |
| cyphermox | there's not a huge number of options, really | 15:03 |
| scott-work | this is what we are currently shipping (from the seeds): gnome-netstatus-applet | 15:03 |
| astraljava | scott-work: No, network-manager-gnome. | 15:03 |
| cyphermox | what's in main, supported, etc. is network-manager/network-manager-gnome | 15:03 |
| scott-work | scratch what i posted last | 15:03 |
| scott-work | (avahi-autoipd) # IPv4 link-local interface configuration support 15 * (network-manager-gnome)# replacing gnome-network-admin due to usability 16 # Copied from Xubuntu 17 * (network-manager-pptp) 18 * (network-manager-pptp-gnome) | 15:03 |
| astraljava | scott-work: Pay attention now! :) | 15:03 |
| scott-work | lol | 15:03 |
| scott-work | okay, network-manager/network-manager-gnome :) | 15:04 |
| scott-work | okay, we are currently shipping network-manager-gnome | 15:04 |
| scott-work | cyphermox: does this pull in the applet automatically? | 15:04 |
| cyphermox | network-manager-gnome *is* the applet | 15:04 |
| astraljava | HE SHOOTS, HE SCOOOOOOREEEEESS!!!! | 15:04 |
| cyphermox | :) | 15:04 |
| scott-work | oh | 15:04 |
| astraljava | scott-work: dpkg -L network-manager-gnome|grep nm-applet | 15:05 |
| scott-work | at work on windows machine :( | 15:05 |
| scott-work | does the applet actually do handling of the netwrok, or just report the status? | 15:05 |
| astraljava | That's no excuse. Surely you have ssh connection to your home box? | 15:05 |
| cyphermox | it depends on network-manager, so it's kind of weird if somebody says that the icon isn't showing | 15:05 |
| scott-work | AH | 15:05 |
| cyphermox | astraljava: tbh I was expecting that the bug was really an issue with a glib change or something | 15:05 |
| cyphermox | (or gtk) | 15:06 |
| astraljava | cyphermox: Right. Well, gotta investigate over the weekend. I'll install it on another drive on my workhorse. | 15:06 |
| scott-work | so avahi-autoipd, network-manager-pptp-gnome, or network-manager-pptp are not a network manager? | 15:06 |
| scott-work | again, my ignorance is showing | 15:06 |
| cyphermox | astraljava: I'm still working on an update of network-manager for precise, it's waiting for an update of libnl3 | 15:07 |
| cyphermox | once that is done I'll start fixing up NM, and then the applet | 15:07 |
| scott-work | looking at this it looks like we ship the same as ubuntu desktop: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~utlemming/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.precise/view/head:/desktop | 15:08 |
| scott-work | my original thought was that we _were_ shipping a network-manger but either were not shipping the applet or somehow had screwed up the panel to not show the applet | 15:10 |
| scott-work | but from what cyphermox has said it sounds like we might not be shipping a network-manager? | 15:10 |
| cyphermox | no, that's just what astraljava was suggesting was happening, but it clearly can't be the case | 15:10 |
| cyphermox | it could be *not running*, but it's a depends of nm-applet | 15:11 |
| scott-work | i see in launchpad that the source package "network-manager-applet" yields the "network-manager-gnome" binary - this is starting to fill in some holes for me | 15:15 |
| scott-work | and i see in the control file that network-admin-gnome provides the nm-applet | 15:17 |
| scott-work | so it would seem that since our seeds ships network-admin-gnome that we should have what we need (updates aside), is this correct cyphermox ? | 15:18 |
| cyphermox | because it ships network-manager-gnome; you have what you need | 15:19 |
| cyphermox | I'll start setting up a system with ubuntu-studio or xubuntu to give this a shot, it's very unusual | 15:19 |
| scott-work | thank you, both for the answers and for testing | 15:20 |
| astraljava | cyphermox: If you don't want to do that, give me approx. 10 hours, when I get home from company "Pikkujoulut" I can install it and report back. | 15:21 |
| cyphermox | astraljava: bah, no worries | 15:22 |
| cyphermox | seems this might actually be the installer's fault | 15:22 |
| scott-work | build logs show that it was put on the disc | 15:22 |
| cyphermox | with network, it might be writing to /etc/network/interfaces , then NM doesn't manage the interface | 15:22 |
| astraljava | cyphermox: That's weird. But I'll admit I have never installed using the wireless interface. Gotta give it a go, really. | 15:24 |
| cyphermox | aye | 15:25 |
| astraljava | I must admit, I'm not a very patriotic person. Finns should even hate our western neighbors like plague, but on my last.fm listing, six of my TOP 8 bands come from Sweden, with 5 first spots. Then there's one dutch band, and one norwegian. | 15:27 |
| scott-work | astraljava: me either, i always use desktops which are wired :/ | 15:28 |
| astraljava | scott-work: Earlier I always used alternate installer anyway, and it's always a pain to setup the wireless with that. So I wired all laptops too. | 15:29 |
| scott-work | going with the live dvd later on should help with this as well, i would think. at least from a user's perspective | 15:32 |
| astraljava | Definitely. | 15:33 |
| astraljava | Ok, off to the xmas party. See ya later. | 15:33 |
| len | I just looked through the back logs with respect to NM. | 21:38 |
| len | US does have NM installed by default and it does work. | 21:39 |
| len | however, it does not work as it should because of the install process | 21:39 |
| len | This seems to be a problem with the alternate installs as xubuntu has the same problem. | 21:40 |
| len | if I install with no network connection... that is I make the network connection fail, it works as I think it should. | 21:41 |
| len | If during install I setup a wireless port. Then NM can't manage that port because the setup info I gave has been added to the init.d network setup. | 21:42 |
| len | This seems to be a problem with the base install, not UbuntuStudio. | 21:44 |
| len | So don't "fix" anything yet. | 21:44 |
| len | Ok, off to do another install and try removing wlan from init.d files. | 22:07 |
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