[14:28] ScottL: I saw your comment on bug 901945; what changes are being done to networking? [14:28] Launchpad bug 901945 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "network manager applet doesn't work in precise" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901945 [14:39] cyphermox: The OP speaks about the icon not even showing, which is understandable, as no NetworkManager is installed in precise, yet. Thus, no nm-applet. [14:39] why would there be no NM installed? [14:39] cyphermox: However, Xubuntu does install it, and I believe scott-work | ScottL meant that we might include it in the future. [14:40] ok [14:40] cyphermox: In the past people thought it hindered the real-time capability. [14:40] oh, right, it wasn't in the seed or something [14:40] cyphermox: I think it needs to be tested whether it still does. [14:40] now I remember and get it, sorry, I got confused :) [14:40] np [14:40] astraljava: thanks [14:40] You're welcome. [14:41] astraljava: I maintain NM in Ubuntu, let me know if it happens to be an issue for real-time, and if you have ideas on how to fix it, I'll be happy to help out [14:41] cyphermox: I don't know whether it's still an issue, but I do understand the fundamental problem. [14:41] ok [14:42] cyphermox: network-manager-gnome didn't poll wireless networks periodically, thus it was chosen. [14:43] cyphermox: NM does, however. Whether that remains an issue performance-wise with the processing power having risen dramatically over the past couple of years, that's another thing altogether. [14:44] Personally, I'm from the school of thought that you shouldn't have networking enabled if you're doing something mission-critical, but of course, there are workflows where you _need_ network for some operations. [14:45] right [14:45] astraljava: cyphermox , hi [14:46] but then wifi might not be the best choice [14:46] astraljava: so what is different from what we shipped in oneiric? [14:46] * scott-work is looking at seeds now [14:46] and you can work around some of the issues by setting it up manually, which can let you avoid scanning (wpasupplicant settings) [14:48] astraljava: oh, is this an issue derived from the transition to xfce? meaning we had nm-applet in the gnome panel before and don't have an the applet in the panel under xfce currently? [14:48] if so, then i AM fixing this currently :-D [14:49] scott-work: Nothing yet. But if we wanna streamline our seeds with Xubuntu's, then I suppose we should test how NM fares in actual workflow. [14:49] astraljava: i thought we were already shipping network manager with nmapplet during natty, plus onieric (which began the transition and might be "broken" too) [14:50] scott-work: We [a|we]re shipping network-manager-gnome, not the one that provides NetworkManager (and thus nm-applet). [14:50] scott-work: Hmm? [14:50] AH [14:50] yes, you are right [14:50] but we moved to network manager i thought [14:50] shit [14:50] nevermind, it was gnome-network-admin or similar that we were shipping [14:51] Sorry, I am confused. [14:51] It's actually the other way around. [14:51] And then it's a bug if nm-applet isn't shown. [14:53] okay, in maverick we shipped gnome-network-admin: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.maverick/view/head:/desktop [14:53] in natty we moved to network-manager-gnome: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.natty/view/head:/desktop [14:53] this was because -network-admin sucked for people using wireless (presumably on laptops) [14:54] I think it wasn't wireless, but rather the PPPoE connections (or something like that). [14:54] astraljava: are you saying that network-manager-gnome does NOT pull in nmapplet? [14:54] scott-work: No. It does. I was wrong. [14:54] * astraljava hangs head in shame [14:54] lol [14:55] so for natty they were both there and probably shows up in the indicator applet/plugin [14:55] i don't remember for oneiric [14:56] i'm going to check the build logs for precise to see if nmapplet is shipping currently [14:56] It should show up in oneiric, but I am not sure whether I had to fix something on my setup, it's been ages since it was installed. [14:59] is this it? gnome-netstatus-applet [15:00] It used to be /usr/bin/nm-applet, but it could be anything in precise. I haven't followed. [15:01] but you say it's built by gnome-network-manager? [15:01] cyphermox: does network manager build the nmapplet? [15:01] no, the source package is called network-manager-applet [15:02] cyphermox: you said that "no networkmanager is shipped in precise" can you clarify that please? [15:02] i'm afraid i'm not extensibly knowledgeable about the various network managers [15:02] what _should_ we be using? [15:03] there's not a huge number of options, really [15:03] this is what we are currently shipping (from the seeds): gnome-netstatus-applet [15:03] scott-work: No, network-manager-gnome. [15:03] what's in main, supported, etc. is network-manager/network-manager-gnome [15:03] scratch what i posted last [15:03] (avahi-autoipd) # IPv4 link-local interface configuration support 15 * (network-manager-gnome) # replacing gnome-network-admin due to usability 16 # Copied from Xubuntu 17 * (network-manager-pptp) 18 * (network-manager-pptp-gnome) [15:03] scott-work: Pay attention now! :) [15:03] lol [15:04] okay, network-manager/network-manager-gnome :) [15:04] okay, we are currently shipping network-manager-gnome [15:04] cyphermox: does this pull in the applet automatically? [15:04] network-manager-gnome *is* the applet [15:04] HE SHOOTS, HE SCOOOOOOREEEEESS!!!! [15:04] :) [15:04] oh [15:05] scott-work: dpkg -L network-manager-gnome|grep nm-applet [15:05] at work on windows machine :( [15:05] does the applet actually do handling of the netwrok, or just report the status? [15:05] That's no excuse. Surely you have ssh connection to your home box? [15:05] it depends on network-manager, so it's kind of weird if somebody says that the icon isn't showing [15:05] AH [15:05] astraljava: tbh I was expecting that the bug was really an issue with a glib change or something [15:06] (or gtk) [15:06] cyphermox: Right. Well, gotta investigate over the weekend. I'll install it on another drive on my workhorse. [15:06] so avahi-autoipd, network-manager-pptp-gnome, or network-manager-pptp are not a network manager? [15:06] again, my ignorance is showing [15:07] astraljava: I'm still working on an update of network-manager for precise, it's waiting for an update of libnl3 [15:07] once that is done I'll start fixing up NM, and then the applet [15:08] looking at this it looks like we ship the same as ubuntu desktop: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~utlemming/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.precise/view/head:/desktop [15:10] my original thought was that we _were_ shipping a network-manger but either were not shipping the applet or somehow had screwed up the panel to not show the applet [15:10] but from what cyphermox has said it sounds like we might not be shipping a network-manager? [15:10] no, that's just what astraljava was suggesting was happening, but it clearly can't be the case [15:11] it could be *not running*, but it's a depends of nm-applet [15:15] i see in launchpad that the source package "network-manager-applet" yields the "network-manager-gnome" binary - this is starting to fill in some holes for me [15:17] and i see in the control file that network-admin-gnome provides the nm-applet [15:18] so it would seem that since our seeds ships network-admin-gnome that we should have what we need (updates aside), is this correct cyphermox ? [15:19] because it ships network-manager-gnome; you have what you need [15:19] I'll start setting up a system with ubuntu-studio or xubuntu to give this a shot, it's very unusual [15:20] thank you, both for the answers and for testing [15:21] cyphermox: If you don't want to do that, give me approx. 10 hours, when I get home from company "Pikkujoulut" I can install it and report back. [15:22] astraljava: bah, no worries [15:22] seems this might actually be the installer's fault [15:22] build logs show that it was put on the disc [15:22] with network, it might be writing to /etc/network/interfaces , then NM doesn't manage the interface [15:24] cyphermox: That's weird. But I'll admit I have never installed using the wireless interface. Gotta give it a go, really. [15:25] aye [15:27] I must admit, I'm not a very patriotic person. Finns should even hate our western neighbors like plague, but on my last.fm listing, six of my TOP 8 bands come from Sweden, with 5 first spots. Then there's one dutch band, and one norwegian. [15:28] astraljava: me either, i always use desktops which are wired :/ [15:29] scott-work: Earlier I always used alternate installer anyway, and it's always a pain to setup the wireless with that. So I wired all laptops too. [15:32] going with the live dvd later on should help with this as well, i would think. at least from a user's perspective [15:33] Definitely. [15:33] Ok, off to the xmas party. See ya later. [21:38] I just looked through the back logs with respect to NM. [21:39] US does have NM installed by default and it does work. [21:39] however, it does not work as it should because of the install process [21:40] This seems to be a problem with the alternate installs as xubuntu has the same problem. [21:41] if I install with no network connection... that is I make the network connection fail, it works as I think it should. [21:42] If during install I setup a wireless port. Then NM can't manage that port because the setup info I gave has been added to the init.d network setup. [21:44] This seems to be a problem with the base install, not UbuntuStudio. [21:44] So don't "fix" anything yet. [22:07] Ok, off to do another install and try removing wlan from init.d files.