[02:05] <Noldorin> wgz, pqm/tarmac?
[02:05] <Noldorin> wgz, wouldn't they have to poll, whatever they are?
[16:45] <cyberkilla> Hello, quick question. I want to set up a central repository on a network share and have myself and others commit to it, but it never seems to save the files to the network share. Only the .bzr file is updated. Am I missing something here?
[16:46] <cyberkilla> Just to clarify: Repository on network share (NAS), checkout code to edit locally, and commit back to the main repository on the network share. That's what I thought was possible with bzr, but it isn't working out.
[16:46] <wilx> cyberkilla: You mean that the working copy is not updated?
[16:47] <cyberkilla> wilx, yes, the network share only has ".bzr" in the folder. It never saves anything else.
[16:47] <wilx> Well...
[16:48] <wilx> AFAIK, you should not need a working copy for the central repo.
[16:48] <cyberkilla> The tutorial on the bazaar website says to do a bzr push to get the initial code up into the repository, then bind to it, but it just creates a bzr file.
[16:49] <cyberkilla> The thing is, the source code is 1.7MB and the .bzr file is 206 bytes. I, so I don't know what it has actually achieved. :(
[16:49] <cyberkilla> wilx, I had assumed that myself. I had thought that perhaps it just kept all of the deltas in .bzr, and didn't need a working tree. The thing is, I don't think it is actually saving anything.
[16:50] <cyberkilla> wilx, thanks for responding btw. I thought it would be a quick task, but it's fighting me at every step.
[16:51] <wilx> Personally, I have not had any prolems with this...
[16:51] <wilx> bzr push has worked for me always.
[16:51] <cyberkilla> Do you push to a network share, or local drive?
[16:51] <wilx> I was pushing over Samba to a share.
[16:52] <cyberkilla> Does it only copy to .bzr, and nothing else?
[16:52] <wilx> Well, I used the --no-trees switch.
[16:53] <wilx> ...for the shared repo.
[16:53] <cyberkilla> The bzr push command's manual entry says: "The target branch will not have its working tree populated because this is both expensive, and is not supported on remote file systems."
[16:54] <cyberkilla> That suggests that it won't in fact copy the working tree (which I assume is the actual source code being versioned here)
[16:54] <cyberkilla> So I'll only get the revision history. I just can't seem to grasp the concept of this. I followed the tutorial to the letter.
[16:55] <wilx> Which tutorial exactly?
[16:56] <cyberkilla> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.dev/en/user-guide/publishing_a_branch.html
[16:56] <cyberkilla> That's the one, I believe.
[16:56] <fullermd> The working tree is the exploded out files that you can edit and read and compile and whatnot.
[16:56] <fullermd> push just pushes the history [to remote locations].
[16:57] <wilx> cyberkilla: Well, if you have followed that then you have used --no-trees option for the repository and hence it does not have any working copy.
[16:58] <cyberkilla> fullermd, how do I commit changes to a central repository, so that others may checkout a branch, make changes, and commit back to the central repository? I'm sure it's my misunderstanding of how bzr works that is the problem, rather than bzr itself.
[16:58] <vila> . o O (Why mention http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/MatthewFuller/SpotDocs/PiecesInBrief when The main itself answers...)
[16:59] <vila> s/main/man/ damn ruining jokes tyops
[16:59] <cyberkilla> wilx, oh
[17:00] <wilx> cyberkilla: The changes, files, metadata are all packed together in the .bzr directory.
[17:00]  * fullermd points and laughs at vila.
[17:00] <cyberkilla> wilx, well, that's what I had thought, but it's not including any of the changes :(
[17:00] <wilx> cyberkilla: How have you propagated the changes to the central repo?
[17:00] <fullermd> When you push, you push all the history, which is everything needed to _make_ the WT.  Anybody branching/pulling from it gets all that.
[17:01] <wilx> Also, how have you committed them to your local branch.
[17:01] <vila> cyberkilla: .bzr is a directory not a file, if it's empty it means you've never successfully pushed to it
[17:01] <fullermd> It just doesn't split out the files on the remote side.
[17:01] <cyberkilla> wilx, bzr init && bzr add && bzr commit -m "Initial import" && bzr push ____
[17:02] <vila> cyberkilla: what does 'bzr info -v' says in the directory where you pushed ?
[17:02] <vila> !paste
[17:02] <cyberkilla> vila, it's not empty, it has files. It's just that the total size of the directory is under 300 bytes in size, but the code is at least 1.7MB of PHP and PNGs
[17:03] <vila> cyberkilla: then you never successfully pushed there
[17:03] <vila> cyberkilla: so maybe you pushed elsewhere
[17:03] <vila> cyberkilla: 'bzr info -v' should tell you where
[17:04] <cyberkilla> vila, it creates the .bzr folder when you push, because it pushes the folder, creating it on the share. This is all very strange.
[17:04] <fullermd> Did you do an init-repo around there before you pushed?
[17:05] <vila> fullermd: nice catch ;)
[17:05] <cyberkilla> fullermd, I did an init-repo in the folder that the folder being pushed was create in. e.g. R:\bzr\project and R:\bzr\project\trunk
[17:06] <vila> cyberkilla: any .bzr under  R:\bzr\project ?
[17:06] <cyberkilla> fullermd, I believe so, but I'll check...
[17:07] <cyberkilla> fullermd, Yes, there is one.
[17:07]  * fullermd takes all the credit and retires in victory.
[17:07]  * vila bows
[17:08] <cyberkilla> Is that a bad thing to do? :) I thought I was following the tutorial correctly:P
[17:08] <vila> cyberkilla: so, the current theory is that your shared repo is at R:\bzr\project and your branch is at R:\bzr\project\trunk
[17:08] <cyberkilla> vila, Yes
[17:08] <vila> this means the .bzr folder for your branch is very small and will always be
[17:09] <cyberkilla> Oh!
[17:10] <vila> the revisions are stored in the repository, the .bzr folder there contains a 'repository' folder there which doesn't exist in your branch .bzr folder
[17:11] <cyberkilla> vila, thank you for enlightening me :-)
[17:11] <vila> cyberkilla: congratulations on identifying the 3 main bzr components so early ! With these pieces in mind, you're now ready to read http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/MatthewFuller/SpotDocs/PiecesInLength)
[17:12]  * vila ducks and bows in direction of both wiki pages author
[17:13] <cyberkilla> vila, am I right in thinking that I can point to R:\bzr\project\trunk to checkout a copy of the code, or is it more complicated than that?
[17:13] <vila> cyberkilla: perfectly right
[17:14] <vila> cyberkilla: read 'bzr help branch' and 'bzr help checkout' as they may imply different workflows
[17:14] <cyberkilla> vila, excellent, I'll give it a try. Thanks again to the both of you.
[17:15] <vila> cyberkilla: if you end up using lightweight checkouts though, think twice as misunderstanding them lead to a few traps (they are fine in themselves if used as appropriate)
[17:16] <vila> cyberkilla: experimenting  with 'bzr qlog' is also great to visualize how revisions move from a branch to another
[17:17] <fullermd> Yeah, vila used lightweight checkouts once, and look what it did to his tpying.
[17:18] <cyberkilla> :)
[17:19] <cyberkilla> I have a couple of years of revision history, but I don't think it'll be too big of an overhead to checkout in full.
[17:19] <vila> fullermd: correction, I never used them as I feel I'm naked (no bragging implied, it's just too cold around there to be wearing only a leaf, a branch is required)
[17:21] <cyberkilla> Actually, earlier today I tried bzr join to try to version the parent folder. You see, I used to use a standalone tree on project/src (another project), but inside of project were project/bin project/tools and I wanted to versiont those too.
[17:21] <fullermd> Well, great.  Now I have to go bleach my mind's eye after that...
[17:23] <cyberkilla> So, I did bzr init on ./project, then bzr join src to pull it in. Seemed to work, but then everything imploded and bzr add started adding .bzr.retired files, bzr update through python errors, and I decided I'd just start from scratch :p
[17:24] <fullermd> You wouldn't do an add after a join.  Join is handwavingly like merging another branch into a subdir, so just like after a merge, you've got that as a pending change to commit.
[17:26] <cyberkilla> fullermd, I tried it after committing gave me errors about unexpected file deltas, or something similarly confusing. I had probably did it in the wrong order. I have a backup, so all is not lost.
[17:26] <cyberkilla> But for now, my problem is solved. Thanks again :)
[17:26] <fullermd> Backup?!  Pfui.  Backups are for pessimists.
[17:28] <cyberkilla> fullermd, I like to be in a position to mindlessly press buttons without there being dire consequences. :-P
[19:38] <meoblast001> hi
[19:39] <meoblast001> suppose i want to develop something outside the main branch, but i will be responsible for merging it into the main branch
[19:39] <meoblast001> do i need to maintain 2 separate trees of the project?
[20:15] <vila> meoblast001: you don't need to, but the workflow will be easier
[20:15] <meoblast001> ah, ok
[20:16] <vila> If the size is not an issue, you'd be better served by 2 working trees, and if they share their repository, the overhead is only the size of the working tree
[20:20] <meoblast001> vila: share the same repository?
[20:21] <meoblast001> ooh, if i store them in one working tree?
[20:22] <vila> no, a working tree needs a branch, a branch needs a repository
[20:22] <vila> but several branches can share the same repository
[20:22] <meoblast001> oh
[20:22] <vila> http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/MatthewFuller/SpotDocs/PiecesInBrief
[20:23] <vila> meoblast001: how big is your working tree ? ('bzr info -v' will tell you)
[20:24] <meoblast001> vila: it doesn't give it as a size
[20:24] <meoblast001> just amounts of files
[20:25] <meoblast001> would it be a good idea to have 2 branches, and 2 branches on the server... separate directories and working trees.. push my personal one to my personal branch on the server
[20:25] <vila> yup, any file browser can give you the whole size (as well as the one of the .bzr directory)
[20:25] <meoblast001> then, go to my main branch on my local machine, and merge in the remote personal directory when i'm ready
[20:25] <meoblast001> and push that up to the main remote directory
[20:25] <vila> yes
[20:26] <meoblast001> and that would be a normal way of doing things where i shouldn't expect problems?
[20:26] <meoblast001> also, 77.6 KB.. it's a small project so far
[20:51] <Noldorin> hi folks
[20:52] <Noldorin> does anyone know what the path in bzr+ssh URLs corresponds to on the fS?
[20:55] <jelmer> Noldorin: hi
[20:55] <Noldorin> hi jelmer
[20:55] <jelmer> Noldorin: whatever the remote SSH server does
[20:55] <Noldorin> jelmer, it's openssh sshd
[20:55] <Noldorin> under cygwin
[20:56] <jelmer> Noldorin: where does it end up if you ssh in manually?
[20:56] <Noldorin> jelmer, the home directory which i configured :-)
[20:57] <jelmer> Noldorin: and what is / ?
[20:57] <jelmer> Noldorin: all paths will be relative to /, and ~ is translated to the home directory
[20:58] <Noldorin> jelmer, how do i find out what / is ?
[20:59] <jelmer> Noldorin: "ls /" ?
[21:00] <Noldorin> jelmer, contains bin, dev, etc, home, lib, proc...
[21:00] <Noldorin> usr
[21:00] <Noldorin> var
[21:00] <Noldorin> tmp
[21:06] <jelmer> Noldorin: where / is depends on your server configuration, which will depend on cygwin
[21:09] <Noldorin> jelmer, c:\cygwin probably...?
[21:09] <Noldorin> jelmer, but bzr+ssh most deinfitely treats root as my home dir
[21:13] <jelmer> Noldorin: does "ssh yourhost ls /" list the contents of your home dir?
[21:13] <Noldorin> yes
[21:13] <Noldorin> err
[21:13] <Noldorin> wait a sec
[21:14] <Noldorin> jelmer, can't do that with putty
[21:19] <vila> meoblast001: sry, was afk, yes, perfectly normal
[21:19] <meoblast001> ah, ok, thanks :)
[21:19] <meoblast001> vila: i now have an interesting problem, btw
[21:20] <meoblast001> well, it's nothing you can fix, nor i :P
[21:20] <meoblast001> i use Bazaar on my personal projects, and Git at work now
[21:20] <meoblast001> and now i find myself joining #git asking how to make Git do what Bazaar does, and joining #bzr asking how to make Bazaar do what Git does
[21:20] <Noldorin> jelmer, so?
[21:24] <vila> meoblast001: as long as you find a way to address your needs, I don't see where the problem is ;)
[21:25] <meoblast001> yup :P
[21:53] <Noldorin> jelmer, brb anyway
[23:01] <jelmer> Noldorin: wb
[23:01] <Noldorin> ty jelmer
[23:01] <jelmer> Noldorin: Sorry, I have no idea of to use ssh on windows exactly
[23:02] <Noldorin> jelmer, well it's exactly lke openssh but just running in cygwin ;-)
[23:02] <Noldorin> so should be quite simple
[23:07] <Noldorin> jelmer, shouldn't bzr+ssh urls be root-based though?
[23:07] <Noldorin> as you said earlier
[23:07] <Noldorin> even that's not happening
[23:08] <Noldorin> so very weird
[23:15] <jelmer> Noldorin: bzr basically runs "ssh YOURHOST bzr serve --directory=/ --allow-writes"
[23:15] <jelmer> oh, and --inet
[23:20] <Noldorin> jelmer, what's inet?
[23:32] <Noldorin>   zzz
[23:33] <Noldorin> *thinks jelmer is on a cycle of chat 1 minute, afk 10 mins, repeat*
[23:35] <jelmer> Noldorin: inet means using stdin/stdout
[23:35] <jelmer> Noldorin: (used for inetd on POSIX)
[23:35] <Noldorin> ok
[23:35] <Noldorin> i see
[23:35] <Noldorin> jelmer, so can i change these default options maybe?
[23:36] <jelmer> Noldorin: which default options?
[23:36] <Noldorin> huh?
[23:36] <Noldorin> the bzr serve ones
[23:36] <jelmer> Noldorin: I don't see how that would help.
[23:36] <Noldorin> jelmer, changing directory maybe?
[23:36] <jelmer> Noldorin: the directory is already set to /
[23:37] <Noldorin> jelmer, yeah but i want something like /cygdrive/c/projects don't i? :-P
[23:39] <jelmer> Noldorin: does "bzr log bzr+ssh://host/cygdrive/c/projects/.../" work?
[23:39] <jelmer> Noldorin: / should already mean paths are relative to the root.
[23:39] <Noldorin> jelmer, but you're confusing the windows and cygwin roots...
[23:40] <jelmer> Noldorin: bzr+ssh paths would be relative to the cygwin root
[23:40] <Noldorin> yes that's my point
[23:40] <Noldorin> :-P
[23:40] <Noldorin> not what i want though
[23:40] <Noldorin> one sec
[23:40] <Noldorin> let me test
[23:40] <jelmer> Noldorin: Sorry, I have a hard time following what you're trying to do and what exactly doesn't work..
[23:41] <Noldorin> jelmer, that cmd (bzr log ) returns "not a branchj"
[23:42] <Noldorin> jelmer, the problem seems to be that bzr is using paths relative to the home directory *regardless* of what i give it
[23:45] <Noldorin> jelmer, and we've confirmed that a normal ssh in detects the correct route
[23:45] <Noldorin> so sounds like a bzr bug to me :-(
[23:51] <Noldorin> jelmer, some way to debug bzr maybe?