| m0ng | hello? | 08:33 |
|---|---|---|
| m0ng | is anyone else there? | 08:35 |
| AlanBell | morning all | 09:08 |
| m0ng | good morning | 09:12 |
| m0ng | i wonder if anyone can help - i'm not very good with linux | 09:13 |
| m0ng | i upgraded my ubuntu install from 10.10 to 11.04 and for some reason it thinks i'm using a tablet pc or something | 09:14 |
| m0ng | the interface is all messed up an the icons are huge and i can't finf the menu bar | 09:14 |
| m0ng | did i turn on accesibility options by mistake? | 09:15 |
| ubuntubhoy | 11.04 uses the Unity interface by default, you would have been using Gnome before | 09:15 |
| m0ng | oh | 09:16 |
| ubuntubhoy | when you log-in, if you press the little settings icon, you can select gnome classic instead | 09:16 |
| m0ng | thank you | 09:16 |
| m0ng | why did they make the simple interface the default? surely it can tell i'm not a new user - i upgraded | 09:17 |
| AlanBell | it is the new interface, not the simple interface | 09:18 |
| m0ng | oh | 09:18 |
| ubuntubhoy | If you try it for a little bit, you may actually prefer it | 09:18 |
| ubuntubhoy | lots of people do | 09:18 |
| KrimZon | what interface? | 09:18 |
| AlanBell | dunno about huge icons though, they are 48px wide | 09:18 |
| m0ng | i thought it was for children or something - why is everything so big? | 09:18 |
| ubuntubhoy | can you supply a screenshot | 09:19 |
| m0ng | and i cant get the menu bar | 09:19 |
| m0ng | how do i screenshot? | 09:19 |
| ubuntubhoy | the top left icon gives you the meny | 09:20 |
| ubuntubhoy | menu* | 09:20 |
| AlanBell | press the prtscr key on your keyboard | 09:20 |
| AlanBell | application menus are now in a global menu at the top, bit like on a mac | 09:20 |
| m0ng | oh | 09:20 |
| AlanBell | the thing on the left is the launcher bar, it mixes up stuff that is running and bookmarks to stuff that isn't running | 09:21 |
| AlanBell | bit like a mac | 09:21 |
| m0ng | gah! | 09:21 |
| AlanBell | top left is a circle of friends icon that opens the dash, with 8 big icons to do stuff you don't want to do, click more apps and you get to a lens | 09:21 |
| m0ng | why didn't it ask me? | 09:22 |
| ubuntubhoy | because it is the default on Ubuntu now | 09:22 |
| m0ng | i remember when i first started you could have kde or gnome | 09:22 |
| m0ng | for ubuntu or kubuntu | 09:22 |
| AlanBell | it did ask, it said do you want to upgrade and you said yes :) | 09:22 |
| m0ng | oh | 09:22 |
| ubuntubhoy | you still can, but Gnome has also changed to Gnome Shell - Google it | 09:22 |
| ubuntubhoy | it is also very different | 09:23 |
| m0ng | its very confusing | 09:23 |
| AlanBell | not sure it ever asked about KDE or GNOME, you either put in a kubuntu or Ubuntu CD | 09:23 |
| m0ng | when i downloaded it | 09:23 |
| m0ng | i mean | 09:23 |
| ubuntubhoy | m0ng, its not confusing, just new | 09:23 |
| m0ng | haha | 09:23 |
| m0ng | i'm confused by new things | 09:23 |
| AlanBell | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Ubuntu_11.10_Final.png are those the big icons you mean? | 09:23 |
| ubuntubhoy | the interface is very easy to use | 09:24 |
| m0ng | i stopped using macs when they changed | 09:24 |
| m0ng | yes! huge! | 09:25 |
| m0ng | i'm not blind yet! | 09:25 |
| ubuntubhoy | lol | 09:25 |
| ubuntubhoy | they are jst the menu icons | 09:25 |
| ubuntubhoy | just* | 09:25 |
| m0ng | it looks like my telephone made bigger | 09:25 |
| m0ng | for pressing with a finger | 09:25 |
| m0ng | like one of these ipads | 09:26 |
| AlanBell | yeah, I have no idea what they were on when making the dash, 8 hardcoded huge buttons | 09:26 |
| m0ng | but i don't have a touch screen, its an old laptop :( | 09:26 |
| AlanBell | apparently that is changing in 12.04 but I have not seen it yet | 09:26 |
| m0ng | ok | 09:26 |
| ubuntubhoy | if you REALLY dont like unity have a look at gnome shell | 09:26 |
| ubuntubhoy | but as I say, it is also VERY different from old Gnome 2.3 | 09:27 |
| m0ng | i just find it confusing, because i remember where things are | 09:27 |
| m0ng | and now everything is somewhere else | 09:27 |
| AlanBell | yes, and not organised either | 09:28 |
| m0ng | exactly | 09:28 |
| AlanBell | however, there is an easy way to get to things | 09:28 |
| m0ng | go on... | 09:28 |
| AlanBell | hit the super button (windows key) and type the first few letters of what you are thinking | 09:28 |
| AlanBell | then click it, or if it is the first thing below the search box just hit return | 09:28 |
| m0ng | that means taking my hand off the travkpad though | 09:28 |
| AlanBell | yeah, it is less mouse friendly | 09:29 |
| m0ng | also, it means i have to remember the name of everything | 09:29 |
| AlanBell | indeed | 09:29 |
| m0ng | i thought xerox solved this problem in the late 70's. | 09:29 |
| AlanBell | there are also filters on the applications lens | 09:29 |
| ubuntubhoy | m0ng, I would give it a couple of days, my wife and daughters actually prefer it | 09:30 |
| m0ng | waitwhatnow | 09:30 |
| m0ng | application lens | 09:31 |
| AlanBell | my kids like it, I can cope with it, I think it is a decent concept but badly implemented in places | 09:31 |
| m0ng | i'm old. i'm officialy old. i feel like my father when i was trying to explain how to program the vcr | 09:31 |
| AlanBell | ok, so lenses | 09:31 |
| AlanBell | hit the BFB (Big Friendly Button top left) | 09:32 |
| m0ng | right... | 09:32 |
| AlanBell | that is the dash, with 8 useless buttons, it is kind of a lens | 09:32 |
| ubuntubhoy | (BFB = dark imposing Ubuntu icon) | 09:32 |
| AlanBell | more apps takes you to the applications lens, as does media apps and internet apps | 09:32 |
| AlanBell | at the bottom of the dash panel there are 4 icons, home, apps, files and music | 09:33 |
| m0ng | er right | 09:33 |
| AlanBell | I have *no* idea why apps isn't the default lens | 09:33 |
| AlanBell | the apps lens is where all the stuff in your menu got shoved | 09:33 |
| AlanBell | plus it delivers adverts for stuff you don't have from the software centre | 09:33 |
| AlanBell | so, for example to launch the gimp you do the following | 09:34 |
| m0ng | what about my menu bar for the wifi and the clock and the weather and all that stuff that lives up top on the right? | 09:34 |
| AlanBell | click the bfb | 09:34 |
| AlanBell | click the more apps button | 09:34 |
| AlanBell | click the filter button | 09:34 |
| AlanBell | click the graphics category | 09:34 |
| ubuntubhoy | m0ng, that should still be there | 09:34 |
| AlanBell | click see more results next to installed | 09:35 |
| AlanBell | click the gimp | 09:35 |
| AlanBell | now wasn't that an improvement :) | 09:35 |
| m0ng | I'm not ready to be old! | 09:35 |
| ubuntubhoy | count yourself lucky, I already am | 09:35 |
| m0ng | that must make sense to someone, but it makes no sense to me | 09:36 |
| AlanBell | or hit super type "gim" hit return | 09:36 |
| m0ng | this feels like the month it took me to make my windows pc normal after windows 7 | 09:36 |
| m0ng | :( | 09:36 |
| ubuntubhoy | lol | 09:37 |
| ubuntubhoy | windows PC's are NEVER normal | 09:37 |
| AlanBell | the search field is the good part of unity, try to use that more | 09:37 |
| m0ng | why must they change things? it wasnt broken before. | 09:37 |
| AlanBell | actually dunno if the music lens is good, never tried that | 09:37 |
| m0ng | if i wanted to type i woulnt h | 09:37 |
| ubuntubhoy | because Gnome 2.3 became obsolete is one reason | 09:38 |
| m0ng | have bothered with a gui | 09:38 |
| MartijnVdS | ubuntubhoy: 2.3 has been obsolete for ages. 2.30 however... | 09:38 |
| AlanBell | heh, so in the music lens if you click an album is it supposed to do anything? | 09:38 |
| ubuntubhoy | yeah yeah | 09:38 |
| MartijnVdS | AlanBell: it starts playing the album in banshee for me | 09:39 |
| ubuntubhoy | nev er used it | 09:39 |
| m0ng | maybe i'm looking for the wrong things | 09:39 |
| MartijnVdS | AlanBell: but that might be a precise feature :) | 09:39 |
| AlanBell | oh, I uninstalled banshee | 09:39 |
| ubuntubhoy | haha | 09:39 |
| m0ng | i just want to do the same things i've always done, just faster and more reliably. | 09:40 |
| m0ng | at the end of the day this is just a glorified typewriter | 09:40 |
| ubuntubhoy | once you learn the interface it is fast | 09:40 |
| KrimZon | why is it application-centric? | 09:41 |
| AlanBell | yeah, you are not alone, and I think it is heading back into a more useable direction | 09:41 |
| ubuntubhoy | m0ng, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr6Ae15Z5Kk&feature=related | 09:41 |
| ubuntubhoy | that is a look at Gnome Shell | 09:41 |
| ubuntubhoy | mhy preferance | 09:41 |
| ubuntubhoy | my* | 09:41 |
| AlanBell | the redesign work seemed to over emphasise playing music and looking at photos and watching films rather than actually doing anything on the computer | 09:43 |
| m0ng | if i wanted that i'd be on my playstation | 09:43 |
| m0ng | that video looks very swish, but i doubt my laptop is up to it | 09:43 |
| m0ng | also, i've just noticed my sound appears to be broken | 09:44 |
| AlanBell | anyone heard anything about Canonical's corporate desktop reference respin? | 09:44 |
| ubuntubhoy | nope | 09:44 |
| ubuntubhoy | well, I'm sure someone has, just not me | 09:44 |
| AlanBell | it was announced at UDS but I have heard nothing since | 09:44 |
| MartijnVdS | AlanBell: There is one? You know more than most people :) | 09:44 |
| AlanBell | http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/18/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t11:42 | 09:47 |
| AlanBell | <sabdfl> Alanbell, I think you're right, and we can nail that at UDS | 09:48 |
| m0ng | well, thanks guys, i'll give it a try for a bit, but it does seem like older boys at school claiming "it hurts the first few times but you get used to it and might like it - i do" | 09:49 |
| ubuntubhoy | lol | 09:49 |
| ubuntubhoy | just remember, if your really hate Unity - there are other options | 09:50 |
| ubuntubhoy | lots of em | 09:50 |
| m0ng | I guess i just like consistency | 09:50 |
| MartijnVdS | Text mode consoles have consistency ;) | 09:51 |
| m0ng | but then again going from Mac system 6.0.5 to 6.0.8 with multifinder was confusing at first | 09:51 |
| m0ng | and I'm completely lost on these new macs | 09:52 |
| m0ng | so many bouncy things bobbling up and down | 09:52 |
| ubuntubhoy | m0ng, if you want something that kinda looks and feels like old Gnome then try Lubuntu with the LXDE desktop | 09:53 |
| ubuntubhoy | its not as feature rich as Gnome was, but also not as bloated | 09:53 |
| m0ng | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:System6.0.8MacII.png if it looked like this i'd be less confused | 09:54 |
| ubuntubhoy | :D | 09:54 |
| MartijnVdS | Just think of it as a new thing instead of something that's like something you already know | 09:54 |
| m0ng | don't get me wrong, i like the fact that i have a colour screen now | 09:54 |
| m0ng | MartijnVdS, i like new things, but not sprung on me | 09:55 |
| MartijnVdS | m0ng: Only way to accomplish that is to develop them yourself :) | 09:55 |
| AlanBell | which is totally an option | 09:56 |
| m0ng | i guess its like i might like a hovercraft, but i'd be really annoyed if i came out my house to drive to work and someone had taken my car away and left me one | 09:56 |
| MartijnVdS | AlanBell: well, maybe not the developing itself, but you can get VERY close without writing a single line of code by running the dev builds of everything | 09:56 |
| m0ng | because i need to get to work. | 09:56 |
| * AlanBell would love to go to work in a hovercraft, that would be *awesome* | 09:57 | |
| MartijnVdS | unless it's full of eels, of course | 09:57 |
| ubuntubhoy | +1 | 09:57 |
| m0ng | and if i want to learn to fly a hovercraft i'll chose when and where and in my free time | 09:57 |
| ubuntubhoy | but if you choose to update to a new version - is it not up to you to find out what 'features' the new version has ? | 09:58 |
| m0ng | hmm | 09:58 |
| m0ng | i see update and change as seperate | 09:58 |
| MartijnVdS | you shouldn't :) | 09:58 |
| ubuntubhoy | without change, what are you updating ? | 09:58 |
| m0ng | update kind of implies (in my mind) more of the same but better | 09:58 |
| ubuntubhoy | now that is funny | 09:59 |
| * AlanBell updates precise again | 09:59 | |
| * MartijnVdS hopes they fixed sound in flash in precise | 09:59 | |
| * ubuntubhoy needs to re-install his precise | 09:59 | |
| MartijnVdS | it's the first thing that broke on upgrade | 09:59 |
| m0ng | like if i update my car from a vw golf mk 4 to a mk5 i might expect cupholders and maybe better fuel economy, not having the steering wheel replaced with a joystick | 09:59 |
| ubuntubhoy | or analogue speedo to digital? | 10:00 |
| ubuntubhoy | total interface re-design | 10:00 |
| ubuntubhoy | can be very confusing | 10:00 |
| * MartijnVdS has a nice loop in precise: | 10:00 | |
| m0ng | more like analogue speedo to giant digital numbers right in the middle of the windscreen | 10:01 |
| MartijnVdS | install vlc -> all kinds of :386 libs become "installed but no longer necessary" | 10:01 |
| ubuntubhoy | now that sounds cool, HUD | 10:01 |
| MartijnVdS | dist-upgrade -> get all the i386 libs back but lose vlc | 10:01 |
| ubuntubhoy | lol | 10:01 |
| m0ng | and now the headlight dim-dip is accessed via typing 'dip headlights' into a search box | 10:01 |
| MartijnVdS | It's annoying, and I can't figure out WHY | 10:02 |
| ubuntubhoy | meh, mine has a freekout with opendesktop and the touchscreen wont work | 10:02 |
| m0ng | oh well, thanks again for the help, and if anyone here has any influence with anyone in a position to do so, may i suggest that things like this are a 'new' version in the future - ubuntu, kubuntu, GIANTICONHIDDENMENUSbuntu | 10:04 |
| ubuntubhoy | haha | 10:05 |
| MartijnVdS | it IS a new version | 10:05 |
| MartijnVdS | 11.x | 10:05 |
| * popey sighs | 10:07 | |
| popey | morning all | 10:07 |
| MartijnVdS | \o popey | 10:07 |
| DJones | Morning | 10:10 |
| christel | good morning lovelies | 10:13 |
| MartijnVdS | \o christel | 10:23 |
| davmor2 | czajkowski, prod and runs | 10:33 |
| brobostigon | good mornign everyone. | 10:37 |
| MartijnVdS | howdy brobostigon | 10:38 |
| brobostigon | morning MartijnVdS | 10:38 |
| daubers | morning | 10:39 |
| brobostigon | morning daubers | 10:39 |
| * MartijnVdS leaves again, time for some last-weekend christmas shopping | 10:40 | |
| MartijnVdS | (I have too many siblings.. :)) | 10:40 |
| AlanBell | I just found a use for the music lens! | 11:06 |
| AlanBell | it is the only one you can fully empty to get a screenshot of an empty lens so you can use it as a base to design a new one | 11:07 |
| AlanBell | off to get a christmas tree in a sec | 11:24 |
| aquarius | In the Power Settings (in precise), the "when the lid is closed" sections have Hibernate in the menus, but it's disabled. I remember something about disabling hibernate unless the machine's on a whitelist, but I'm not sure that that happened; can I re-enable it in order to try whether hibernate works? | 11:33 |
| daubers | Woot! | 11:35 |
| * daubers haz kindle | 11:35 | |
| jutnux | \o everybody | 11:36 |
| jutnux | daubers: is it good? | 11:36 |
| daubers | jutnux: only just turned it on :) | 11:36 |
| jutnux | Ah. I was thinking of getting one | 11:36 |
| * jutnux groans | 11:37 | |
| jutnux | tea is cold | 11:37 |
| jacobw | microwave technology pioneered in the second world war continues to benefits our lives to this day | 11:37 |
| jacobw | by ... allowing us to warm up our tea when goes cold :) | 11:38 |
| jutnux | But the Microwave is downstairs :-( | 11:40 |
| dwatkins | Microwaving tea sounds so wrong. | 11:46 |
| jutnux | It only heats it up ;-) | 11:47 |
| dwatkins | I know, jutnux - I guess I prefer to make a new cup than reheat one which has gone cold. | 11:48 |
| daubers | woot, textbooks loaded on kindle | 11:48 |
| jutnux | Sorry, kind of insinuated that you were an idiot there haha. I just drink the cold tea. | 11:50 |
| dwatkins | lol did you? | 11:52 |
| dwatkins | I thought you were just kidding, and I am only vaguely aware of the effects of microwaves on something like tea, which is mainly water, as opposed to vegetables, which probably get largely destroyed in terms of the vitaims. | 11:53 |
| jutnux | Or destroying a microwave friendly plate, in my case. | 11:55 |
| dwatkins | ah yes, I've done that before trying to heat bacon | 11:56 |
| jutnux | It just melted :-( | 11:57 |
| jutnux | And the smell was actually disgusting. | 11:57 |
| KrimZon | I burned a potato in a microwave once | 12:07 |
| gordonjcp | dwatkins: I've never understood why people think that microwave cooking "destroys vitamins" | 12:08 |
| gordonjcp | there's no mechanism for it | 12:08 |
| gordonjcp | not beyond heating which will eventually start to break them up | 12:09 |
| KrimZon | there was a horrible burning smell but no visible signs, so I thought my microwave was broken | 12:10 |
| dwatkins | gordonjcp: we had a talk from a nutritionist recently in my office, but she lost half the room when she started talking about energy and the crystal-based thing on her laptop to 'absorb the negative energy' | 12:12 |
| * dwatkins looks it up and discovers that boiling actually destroys more vitamins | 12:13 | |
| gordonjcp | you lost me at "nutritionist" | 12:13 |
| dwatkins | gordonjcp: well indeed, you don't need any qualifications to do a talk and be introduced as one | 12:13 |
| gordonjcp | nutritionists are basically fake dietitians who got a "diploma" over the internet | 12:14 |
| gordonjcp | like "Dr" Gillian McKeith | 12:14 |
| dwatkins | so I'm discovering, yes | 12:17 |
| gordonjcp | basically, it comes down to this | 12:19 |
| gordonjcp | in the west we eat too much cheap greasy poor-quality meat | 12:19 |
| gordonjcp | and we don't exercise enough | 12:19 |
| gordonjcp | and we eat too much processed food, and "low fat" food | 12:20 |
| gordonjcp | cut all that shit out | 12:20 |
| dwatkins | I am generally aware of this, and taking steps to excercise more. | 12:20 |
| jutnux | Do you know that Diet Coke is worse for you than normal coke? | 12:20 |
| gordonjcp | eat properly, buy your meat at a proper butcher, and get your fat arse up some hills | 12:20 |
| gordonjcp | don't eat margarine or "low fat spread", that shit is horrible for you | 12:21 |
| gordonjcp | you could try putting maybe emulsion paint on your toast, it's not likely to be any worse | 12:21 |
| gordonjcp | it's certainly less synthetic | 12:21 |
| MartijnVdS | gordonjcp: "eating less, exercising more", in short | 12:21 |
| jutnux | Meat at the butcher is cheaper than Tesco, around here anyway. | 12:22 |
| MartijnVdS | Better taste too usually | 12:23 |
| gordonjcp | MartijnVdS: and not eating cheap crappy food, particularly meat | 12:23 |
| gordonjcp | jutnux: yup | 12:24 |
| gordonjcp | and you can get more unusual stuff | 12:24 |
| gordonjcp | supermarkets tend to have cheap crappy factory farmed stuff and then ridiculously expensive crappy slightly less factory farmed stuff | 12:24 |
| MartijnVdS | gordonjcp: you can eat crappy food if you like, as long as you don't eat much and exercise to compensate :) | 12:24 |
| gordonjcp | and occasionally "ZOMG WOW CRAZY" shit like ostrich | 12:24 |
| jutnux | My Dad was having a barbecue and we went to the Butchers | 12:24 |
| MartijnVdS | gordonjcp: I've lost 30kg that way :) | 12:24 |
| jutnux | and it was something like 20 burgers for £3 | 12:24 |
| gordonjcp | you can't get mutton, for example | 12:25 |
| dwatkins | I wouldn't eat lamb or mutton anyway, friends of mine keep sheep as pets. It's on a par with eating cat or dog to me | 12:26 |
| jutnux | I've grown to love duck | 12:28 |
| MartijnVdS | dwatkins: do you eat chicken? | 12:29 |
| dwatkins | MartijnVdS: yes, but I try to buy meat that's not from intensive [i.e. battery] farms | 12:30 |
| MartijnVdS | dwatkins: but AlanBell keeps chickens! | 12:30 |
| dwatkins | I was not aware of this. | 12:30 |
| penguin42 | he feeds them Kubuntu CDs | 12:41 |
| jutnux | I don't know whether I like Kubuntu or not at the minute. | 12:45 |
| jutnux | KDE even | 12:45 |
| jutnux | I think I will give it another try. | 12:46 |
| * MartijnVdS wants those neodymium magnets to arrive | 12:57 | |
| christel | ooh ball thingies? | 12:58 |
| christel | they rock | 12:58 |
| MartijnVdS | christel: not balls, but round discs | 12:58 |
| MartijnVdS | Got a bunch cheap on ebay | 12:59 |
| MartijnVdS | going to sugru one to the lid of my record player so it'll stay up properly :) | 13:00 |
| christel | ah cool | 13:06 |
| * daubers makes moar coffee | 13:06 | |
| * MartijnVdS found "Super Magnet Man" on Youtube. Never heard a stronger accent :) | 13:07 | |
| jutnux | Does anyone here actually like Unity? Or do you all use XFCE? | 13:08 |
| * MartijnVdS likes it | 13:08 | |
| jutnux | Me too heh | 13:09 |
| jutnux | popey: Are you still offering beta accounts for trublr? | 13:22 |
| === tubadaz_ is now known as tubadaz | ||
| daniel__ | Hi everybody! | 14:32 |
| jutnux | \o | 14:42 |
| MartijnVdS | \o/ Plastikman | 14:52 |
| MartijnVdS | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqprso8TGOk | 14:53 |
| * jutnux pokes MartijnVdS | 14:56 | |
| jutnux | too downbeat for me haha | 14:56 |
| * MartijnVdS is poked | 14:56 | |
| MartijnVdS | it's a Saturday afternoon! :) | 14:57 |
| MartijnVdS | jutnux: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyTazPPWIKk then? | 14:58 |
| jutnux | Would be good if I could understand what they were saying :-( | 14:58 |
| MartijnVdS | jutnux: the video is almost literally what's being said | 14:59 |
| MartijnVdS | depicts* | 14:59 |
| MartijnVdS | *grammar* | 14:59 |
| jutnux | Ph tihjt ;- | 14:59 |
| Nafallo | http://t.nafallo.me/mastering_swedish_-_lesson_1.mp3 | 14:59 |
| jutnux | Damnit | 14:59 |
| jutnux | Touch typing fail | 14:59 |
| jutnux | Oh right ;) | 14:59 |
| MartijnVdS | jutnux: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KzOZPRv5rs then? | 14:59 |
| jutnux | Not my kind of music haha | 15:00 |
| MartijnVdS | jutnux: you're picky, aren't you? :) | 15:01 |
| jutnux | Yes, I prefer rock haha. | 15:01 |
| MartijnVdS | jutnux: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM6CjDjIqfE | 15:03 |
| jutnux | Much better ;-) | 15:04 |
| jutnux | Even though it's more swingy. | 15:04 |
| MartijnVdS | well they're the "Tiny Little Bigband" | 15:04 |
| jutnux | Joy | 15:49 |
| jutnux | Setting up a backup server | 15:49 |
| Nafallo | that is joy. | 15:50 |
| jutnux | So boring :-( | 15:50 |
| Nafallo | too easy? :-) | 15:51 |
| jutnux | Partly | 15:53 |
| jutnux | It's just to zip some photos onto and run some things | 15:53 |
| MartijnVdS | I just rsync to my synology nightly | 15:55 |
| jutnux | What was I thinking | 15:56 |
| jutnux | CentOS was installed | 15:56 |
| Nafallo | I use deja-dup w/ ssh-backend. it's surpringly simple | 15:56 |
| jutnux | say goodbye, foul demon. | 15:56 |
| MartijnVdS | Nafallo: deja-dup doesn't work for me | 15:56 |
| directhex | moo | 15:56 |
| MartijnVdS | Nafallo: it creates the destination directoy, then dies. | 15:56 |
| * jutnux pokes directhex | 15:56 | |
| Nafallo | MartijnVdS: investigate why? file a bug? | 15:56 |
| MartijnVdS | Nafallo: I have a working setup with rsync, so I don't really care | 15:57 |
| * daubers demands that the world warms up | 16:15 | |
| * gordonjcp adjusts the boiler, listens to the soft whooph of dead dinosaurs being turned into cosy | 16:16 | |
| * daubers wishes he had a boiler | 16:18 | |
| daubers | stupid electric heaters | 16:19 |
| * jutnux is chilling with the window open | 16:20 | |
| MartijnVdS | time to upgrade the laptop to precise | 16:23 |
| jutnux | Is your desktop running precise MartijnVdS? (if you have one that is) | 16:24 |
| MartijnVdS | yes | 16:24 |
| * MartijnVdS likes living on the edge | 16:24 | |
| * penguin42 has desktop and laptop running precise - from last week; haven't updated them yet today | 16:25 | |
| jutnux | Has much changed? | 16:25 |
| MartijnVdS | not really | 16:25 |
| monsterwizard | how does one stop one's Drive from clicking | 16:25 |
| monsterwizard | it's worrying me | 16:25 |
| MartijnVdS | monsterwizard: what brand? | 16:25 |
| jutnux | Put a giant hammer into it | 16:25 |
| monsterwizard | :o | 16:25 |
| monsterwizard | acer ? | 16:25 |
| daubers | monsterwizard: Replace it........ | 16:25 |
| monsterwizard | :( | 16:26 |
| penguin42 | monsterwizard: Depends on the click; most are a sign it's dying - but some are just noisy | 16:26 |
| monsterwizard | it's only 5 months old | 16:26 |
| penguin42 | monsterwizard: Use smartctl (or the equivalent in disk utils) to look at the error details on the drive | 16:26 |
| MartijnVdS | daubers: My brand new WD disk clicked, until I poked it with a "stop trying to go to sleep" tool from WDF | 16:26 |
| MartijnVdS | WD | 16:26 |
| daubers | monsterwizard: It's normally created by the head stalling/getting stuck | 16:26 |
| daubers | MartijnVdS, | 16:26 |
| daubers | MartijnVdS, | 16:26 |
| daubers | Grrr | 16:26 |
| daubers | MartijnVdS: Lesson here (don't use a stupid keyboard) and don't by WD disks :) | 16:27 |
| daubers | s/by/buy | 16:27 |
| MartijnVdS | daubers: yes, I've learned :) | 16:27 |
| MartijnVdS | But my other disk had almost died and it was the start of the HD draught (Thailand flood) | 16:28 |
| daubers | Know all about that :( | 16:28 |
| daubers | spent a week chasing drives for work. Think I have enough till feb now | 16:28 |
| daubers | £95 drive two months ago is ~£260 now | 16:29 |
| MartijnVdS | I hope SSDs start dropping in price before spinning rust does | 16:29 |
| daubers | unlikely, but would be nice | 16:30 |
| penguin42 | odd a flood causing a drought | 16:30 |
| MartijnVdS | There's a lot of rust in the HD factories | 16:31 |
| MartijnVdS | too bad it's not in spinning disk shape | 16:31 |
| daubers | I've discovered that kindles are awesome at displaying datasheets for components | 16:32 |
| MartijnVdS | they are? | 16:32 |
| MartijnVdS | I've only used mine for books | 16:32 |
| MartijnVdS | also, I don't have too many components that have datasheets | 16:33 |
| MartijnVdS | not separated ones anyway | 16:34 |
| daubers | :) | 16:34 |
| brobostigon | afternoonings everyone. | 16:50 |
| MartijnVdS | hey, Doctor Who - Dreamland on BBC1 | 16:50 |
| brobostigon | MartijnVdS: when? | 16:51 |
| MartijnVdS | now | 16:51 |
| brobostigon | MartijnVdS: isnt here, :( | 16:51 |
| MartijnVdS | brobostigon: oops, looked wrong, it's bbc hd | 16:52 |
| MartijnVdS | sorry | 16:52 |
| brobostigon | ah, :( | 16:52 |
| MartijnVdS | isn't that on freeview though? | 16:53 |
| brobostigon | no idea. | 16:53 |
| MartijnVdS | http://faq.external.bbc.co.uk/questions/help_receiving/freeview_bbchd :) | 16:53 |
| brobostigon | ah, :) | 16:54 |
| brobostigon | MartijnVdS: it will be on iplayer? so could i pull it with get-iplayer? | 17:00 |
| MartijnVdS | brobostigon: I've seen it before | 17:02 |
| MartijnVdS | so it should be | 17:02 |
| brobostigon | ok, :) | 17:03 |
| MartijnVdS | brobostigon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamland_(Doctor_Who) | 17:03 |
| brobostigon | thank you. | 17:05 |
| martsbradley_ | Hi Folks, can I ask about ddd here. | 17:26 |
| penguin42 | the gdb frontend? | 17:26 |
| martsbradley_ | yes using gdb on a C++ program called gpsim for simulating microcontrollers. | 17:27 |
| martsbradley_ | I used to used ddd years ago but now I'm like a new user again. | 17:27 |
| martsbradley_ | I can't get it to show the source files, its listing some of the header files. | 17:28 |
| penguin42 | yeh, haven't used it for at least 10 years - I just tend to use gdb | 17:28 |
| martsbradley_ | Then I can just use gdb if you can help. I have used the command ' directory src' to add src to the source path. The 'src' dir contains the cc files that I want to list. | 17:28 |
| penguin42 | does that work? | 17:29 |
| martsbradley_ | No, its supposed to add the 'src' directory to the source path so that the source files in that dir can be listed. Maybe I've missunderstood the help. | 17:30 |
| penguin42 | yeh, can you pastebin a gdb session showing what you're doing? | 17:30 |
| martsbradley_ | I'll try that | 17:31 |
| martsbradley_ | http://pastebin.com/kUe8AP5a | 17:34 |
| martsbradley_ | Any ideas. The pastebin session shows that "pic-registers.cc:1: Error in sourced command file:" however that file only starts with the usual gnu copy right. | 17:39 |
| martsbradley_ | Sorry I've realised that source is the wrong thing to do there, thats like source a file of gdb commands I think. | 17:40 |
| penguin42 | martsbradley_: OK, so the directory command is OK | 17:42 |
| penguin42 | martsbradley_: but go back a step; what are you actually trying to do - gdb is showing you the code it's at | 17:43 |
| martsbradley_ | Yes its showing the main function thats defined in another file. | 17:44 |
| martsbradley_ | That file is defined in a subdirectory called gpsim. Most of the source code is under a directory called 'src' | 17:44 |
| penguin42 | ok; so what do you actually want to do - breakpoint somehwere; list it? get it to show you when it stops? | 17:45 |
| martsbradley_ | Yes that is what I'm hoping to do, list the bit of the program that I am interested in - very far away from the main entry point. | 17:47 |
| martsbradley_ | Then in that part place a break point | 17:47 |
| penguin42 | ok, I'm going to need to find a program to try this on - give me a moment | 17:47 |
| martsbradley_ | thanks for helping | 17:48 |
| * penguin42 hits make -j 8 | 17:48 | |
| penguin42 | martsbradley_: Right, so you can do something like list frags.c:33 and it'll show you the source in that file, or list frag_init to show you that function | 17:52 |
| penguin42 | martsbradley_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/773560/ | 17:53 |
| martsbradley_ | I was trying 'list <filename>:' | 17:55 |
| penguin42 | yeh it seems to want either a function or at least a line number in the file (IMHO starting at line 1 wouldn't be a bad default) | 17:56 |
| martsbradley_ | I'll try a little more around it, its no doubt something silly I'm doing wrong. | 17:56 |
| penguin42 | np | 17:57 |
| martsbradley_ | Got the problem, the code I was looking to list was built into a shared library. Therefore for gdb to 'see' that code I needed to issue the 'run' command which loaded the code and allowed me to list the source file. | 18:04 |
| martsbradley_ | Thanks. | 18:04 |
| mattt | evening | 19:55 |
| penguin42 | Hey | 19:56 |
| MartijnVdS | howdy | 20:01 |
| monsterwizard | lol ubuntu mention on BBC | 20:04 |
| monsterwizard | <grumpyrj> | 20:04 |
| penguin42 | ? | 20:04 |
| monsterwizard | oops | 20:04 |
| MartijnVdS | cool -- http://www.euscreen.eu/ | 20:04 |
| monsterwizard | here http://goo.gl/0pSC9 | 20:04 |
| MartijnVdS | Lots of old TV from all over Europe :) | 20:04 |
| * penguin42 slaps monsterwizard with a very very frozen trout | 20:05 | |
| monsterwizard | Merry xmas :D | 20:05 |
| MarquessDeBonBon | You could have said "Merry Fishmas" but no... | 20:12 |
| MartijnVdS | Merry Mishmash? | 20:12 |
| jutnux | Anyone here used Arch? | 20:40 |
| gordonjcp | jutnux: yes | 20:40 |
| jutnux | Is it any good? I like the look of xmonad. | 20:41 |
| gordonjcp | it's pretty decent | 20:41 |
| gordonjcp | I got a bit sick of them packaging bleeding-edge-but-broken packages | 20:41 |
| gordonjcp | I use Arch where I need reasonably recent stuff, and Ubuntu where I can get away with obsolete-but-stable packages | 20:42 |
| AlanBell | the arch community seems pretty toxic though | 20:42 |
| penguin42 | you use ubuntu for obsolete? | 20:42 |
| gordonjcp | AlanBell: there are some total dickheads in it, just as with the Ubuntu community | 20:42 |
| penguin42 | gordonjcp: Like any large community | 20:43 |
| gordonjcp | AlanBell: there are a couple of guys who start to get a bit mouthy in the presence of the Ubuntu fanbois who come in and crapflood #archlinux | 20:43 |
| jutnux | I heard xmonad is nice. | 20:43 |
| gordonjcp | penguin42: yeah, everything is so old | 20:43 |
| gordonjcp | penguin42: and I don't like the massive upstream vandalism in Ubuntu | 20:44 |
| penguin42 | gordonjcp: Hmm OK; I prefer Ubuntu because it's quite new compared to Debian | 20:44 |
| gordonjcp | like the patches that break user settings in firefox | 20:44 |
| * penguin42 did used to use Debian/sid for a few years - reasonably bleeding edge, but they don't call it unstable for nothing | 20:44 | |
| gordonjcp | I really don't like Debian's packaging system | 20:46 |
| penguin42 | really? Oh - that's what I really like and why I stick with it - what in particular ? | 20:46 |
| gordonjcp | it's just *awful* | 20:46 |
| penguin42 | can you be _slightly_ more specific? | 20:47 |
| gordonjcp | really opaque package build process, fragile dependencies | 20:47 |
| penguin42 | hmm, is arch better at that? | 20:47 |
| gordonjcp | I stopped using Debian because I got sick of nuking and reinstalling on a weekly basis because apt had tied itself up in knots | 20:47 |
| gordonjcp | penguin42: seems so | 20:47 |
| Laney | you know that debian and ubuntu use the same packaging system? | 20:47 |
| gordonjcp | Laney: yes | 20:48 |
| gordonjcp | Laney: I don't attempt to package anything for Ubuntu, or use any packages that aren't in the base install | 20:48 |
| penguin42 | gordonjcp: Interesting, I've not had to do that - but there again i do know how to get myself out of package knots, <--- machine was installed in ~2007 and has been upgraded all the way to current PP | 20:48 |
| gordonjcp | so far it's only dropped its guts once since 11.10 came out | 20:48 |
| gordonjcp | and that was because it lost its internet connection while updating | 20:49 |
| gordonjcp | when it tried to have another go at updating it started by basically deleting every package on the system... | 20:49 |
| penguin42 | :-( That really shouldn't happen | 20:50 |
| Myrtti | so | 20:50 |
| Myrtti | do I need to install sun java from the website now? | 20:50 |
| Myrtti | I feel lost | 20:50 |
| gordonjcp | friends don't let friends use java | 20:50 |
| Myrtti | yeah, I'd gladly rid my sister of the bank she uses if I had 25k€ | 20:50 |
| Myrtti | (the bank requires Sun Java to work) | 20:51 |
| penguin42 | Myrtti: It might be in the partners repo - not sure | 20:51 |
| Myrtti | penguin42: not for long | 20:51 |
| AlanBell | penguin42: nope, it is coming out of the partner repo | 20:51 |
| penguin42 | Myrtti: It's also worth trying openjdk-6 | 20:51 |
| AlanBell | it is buggy and oracle have pulled it | 20:51 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: Yeh, and screwed up the license :-( | 20:52 |
| Myrtti | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2011-December/001528.html | 20:52 |
| AlanBell | withdrawn the distributor license | 20:52 |
| Myrtti | penguin42: been there, done that, got the mug | 20:52 |
| AlanBell | Myrtti: is it known not to work with openjdk? | 20:52 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: I found the eclipse in PP doesn't work with a -7 version; but I don't know enough about Java stuff to know what the right solution is | 20:53 |
| Myrtti | AlanBell: yeah, pretty much | 20:54 |
| AlanBell | well installing from java.com is always a possibility | 20:55 |
| AlanBell | but Oracle don't like you | 20:55 |
| AlanBell | is the lesson to learn from this | 20:55 |
| Myrtti | I'm trying to but I'm baffled by what this thing does | 20:58 |
| penguin42 | Myrtti: Sorry, which bank is it we should avoid? | 21:04 |
| Myrtti | Danske Bank and her ilk | 21:08 |
| zleap | hello | 21:29 |
| popey | hello | 21:32 |
| zleap | i think i fixed the pgp problem | 21:34 |
| zleap | just waiting for a message thing to arrive to confirm, i can then hopefully sign the ubuntu code of condust | 21:35 |
| zleap | conduct | 21:35 |
| popey | ☺ | 21:37 |
| Laney | ☹☺☹☺ | 21:46 |
| * mattt is getting his django on | 21:51 | |
| zleap | ok | 21:54 |
| penguin42 | eep! My gnome weather monitor is showing -2 | 21:55 |
| zleap | ouch | 21:56 |
| zleap | ideal for penguins then :) | 21:56 |
| popey | zleap: success with the code of conduct? | 21:57 |
| zleap | i am waiting for the confirmation e-mail | 21:57 |
| zleap | so I can sign it | 21:57 |
| zleap | need to register my pgp key first | 21:57 |
| mattt | penguin42: serious? where you? | 21:59 |
| penguin42 | mattt: Manchester | 21:59 |
| mattt | penguin42: FUUUUUUUUUUUUU | 21:59 |
| penguin42 | zleap: This Penguin is next to a nice warm radiator | 22:00 |
| zleap | good plan | 22:00 |
| mattt | popey: so king's ride in camberley, dodgy or not? :P | 22:00 |
| zleap | for human penguin fans at least | 22:00 |
| popey | mattt: wifey says rough | 22:01 |
| popey | mattt: anything on the old dean estate is | 22:01 |
| mattt | popey: i think old dean's a bit east tho, a good few streets over | 22:01 |
| mattt | popey: unless that spills over, at which point your wife is probably right | 22:02 |
| popey | mattt: you're right, she was thinking of the next road up | 22:08 |
| popey | i think they're ex-army houses | 22:08 |
| popey | are is fine | 22:08 |
| popey | closer to old dean than I'd like ☺ | 22:08 |
| mattt | popey: yeah, if you go up the cul de sac on king's ride, it's all army homes i think | 22:17 |
| mattt | popey: the whole area is a bit odd to be honest | 22:17 |
| mattt | (but my finacee likes :/) | 22:17 |
| popey | heh | 22:27 |
| popey | AlanBell: see bug 885738 | 22:27 |
| lubotu3 | Launchpad bug 885738 in unity (Ubuntu) "Dash - Remove Dash Home shortcut icons" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/885738 | 22:27 |
| zleap | popey, done :) | 22:28 |
| zleap | well i have now uploaded my gpg key | 22:28 |
| zleap | now signed code of conduct | 22:33 |
| zleap | so can i use that gpg -- clearsign to sign any document ? | 22:34 |
| AlanBell | popey: interesting, thanks | 22:53 |
| jutnux | Fell asleep and X only just downloaded. | 22:53 |
| jutnux | 147mb in 2 hours | 22:53 |
| * jutnux stabs himself | 22:53 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
