[08:33] hello? [08:35] is anyone else there? [09:08] morning all [09:12] good morning [09:13] i wonder if anyone can help - i'm not very good with linux [09:14] i upgraded my ubuntu install from 10.10 to 11.04 and for some reason it thinks i'm using a tablet pc or something [09:14] the interface is all messed up an the icons are huge and i can't finf the menu bar [09:15] did i turn on accesibility options by mistake? [09:15] 11.04 uses the Unity interface by default, you would have been using Gnome before [09:16] oh [09:16] when you log-in, if you press the little settings icon, you can select gnome classic instead [09:16] thank you [09:17] why did they make the simple interface the default? surely it can tell i'm not a new user - i upgraded [09:18] it is the new interface, not the simple interface [09:18] oh [09:18] If you try it for a little bit, you may actually prefer it [09:18] lots of people do [09:18] what interface? [09:18] dunno about huge icons though, they are 48px wide [09:18] i thought it was for children or something - why is everything so big? [09:19] can you supply a screenshot [09:19] and i cant get the menu bar [09:19] how do i screenshot? [09:20] the top left icon gives you the meny [09:20] menu* [09:20] press the prtscr key on your keyboard [09:20] application menus are now in a global menu at the top, bit like on a mac [09:20] oh [09:21] the thing on the left is the launcher bar, it mixes up stuff that is running and bookmarks to stuff that isn't running [09:21] bit like a mac [09:21] gah! [09:21] top left is a circle of friends icon that opens the dash, with 8 big icons to do stuff you don't want to do, click more apps and you get to a lens [09:22] why didn't it ask me? [09:22] because it is the default on Ubuntu now [09:22] i remember when i first started you could have kde or gnome [09:22] for ubuntu or kubuntu [09:22] it did ask, it said do you want to upgrade and you said yes :) [09:22] oh [09:22] you still can, but Gnome has also changed to Gnome Shell - Google it [09:23] it is also very different [09:23] its very confusing [09:23] not sure it ever asked about KDE or GNOME, you either put in a kubuntu or Ubuntu CD [09:23] when i downloaded it [09:23] i mean [09:23] m0ng, its not confusing, just new [09:23] haha [09:23] i'm confused by new things [09:23] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Ubuntu_11.10_Final.png are those the big icons you mean? [09:24] the interface is very easy to use [09:24] i stopped using macs when they changed [09:25] yes! huge! [09:25] i'm not blind yet! [09:25] lol [09:25] they are jst the menu icons [09:25] just* [09:25] it looks like my telephone made bigger [09:25] for pressing with a finger [09:26] like one of these ipads [09:26] yeah, I have no idea what they were on when making the dash, 8 hardcoded huge buttons [09:26] but i don't have a touch screen, its an old laptop :( [09:26] apparently that is changing in 12.04 but I have not seen it yet [09:26] ok [09:26] if you REALLY dont like unity have a look at gnome shell [09:27] but as I say, it is also VERY different from old Gnome 2.3 [09:27] i just find it confusing, because i remember where things are [09:27] and now everything is somewhere else [09:28] yes, and not organised either [09:28] exactly [09:28] however, there is an easy way to get to things [09:28] go on... [09:28] hit the super button (windows key) and type the first few letters of what you are thinking [09:28] then click it, or if it is the first thing below the search box just hit return [09:28] that means taking my hand off the travkpad though [09:29] yeah, it is less mouse friendly [09:29] also, it means i have to remember the name of everything [09:29] indeed [09:29] i thought xerox solved this problem in the late 70's. [09:29] there are also filters on the applications lens [09:30] m0ng, I would give it a couple of days, my wife and daughters actually prefer it [09:30] waitwhatnow [09:31] application lens [09:31] my kids like it, I can cope with it, I think it is a decent concept but badly implemented in places [09:31] i'm old. i'm officialy old. i feel like my father when i was trying to explain how to program the vcr [09:31] ok, so lenses [09:32] hit the BFB (Big Friendly Button top left) [09:32] right... [09:32] that is the dash, with 8 useless buttons, it is kind of a lens [09:32] (BFB = dark imposing Ubuntu icon) [09:32] more apps takes you to the applications lens, as does media apps and internet apps [09:33] at the bottom of the dash panel there are 4 icons, home, apps, files and music [09:33] er right [09:33] I have *no* idea why apps isn't the default lens [09:33] the apps lens is where all the stuff in your menu got shoved [09:33] plus it delivers adverts for stuff you don't have from the software centre [09:34] so, for example to launch the gimp you do the following [09:34] what about my menu bar for the wifi and the clock and the weather and all that stuff that lives up top on the right? [09:34] click the bfb [09:34] click the more apps button [09:34] click the filter button [09:34] click the graphics category [09:34] m0ng, that should still be there [09:35] click see more results next to installed [09:35] click the gimp [09:35] now wasn't that an improvement :) [09:35] I'm not ready to be old! [09:35] count yourself lucky, I already am [09:36] that must make sense to someone, but it makes no sense to me [09:36] or hit super type "gim" hit return [09:36] this feels like the month it took me to make my windows pc normal after windows 7 [09:36] :( [09:37] lol [09:37] windows PC's are NEVER normal [09:37] the search field is the good part of unity, try to use that more [09:37] why must they change things? it wasnt broken before. [09:37] actually dunno if the music lens is good, never tried that [09:37] if i wanted to type i woulnt h [09:38] because Gnome 2.3 became obsolete is one reason [09:38] have bothered with a gui [09:38] ubuntubhoy: 2.3 has been obsolete for ages. 2.30 however... [09:38] heh, so in the music lens if you click an album is it supposed to do anything? [09:38] yeah yeah [09:39] AlanBell: it starts playing the album in banshee for me [09:39] nev er used it [09:39] maybe i'm looking for the wrong things [09:39] AlanBell: but that might be a precise feature :) [09:39] oh, I uninstalled banshee [09:39] haha [09:40] i just want to do the same things i've always done, just faster and more reliably. [09:40] at the end of the day this is just a glorified typewriter [09:40] once you learn the interface it is fast [09:41] why is it application-centric? [09:41] yeah, you are not alone, and I think it is heading back into a more useable direction [09:41] m0ng, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr6Ae15Z5Kk&feature=related [09:41] that is a look at Gnome Shell [09:41] mhy preferance [09:41] my* [09:43] the redesign work seemed to over emphasise playing music and looking at photos and watching films rather than actually doing anything on the computer [09:43] if i wanted that i'd be on my playstation [09:43] that video looks very swish, but i doubt my laptop is up to it [09:44] also, i've just noticed my sound appears to be broken [09:44] anyone heard anything about Canonical's corporate desktop reference respin? [09:44] nope [09:44] well, I'm sure someone has, just not me [09:44] it was announced at UDS but I have heard nothing since [09:44] AlanBell: There is one? You know more than most people :) [09:47] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/18/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t11:42 [09:48] Alanbell, I think you're right, and we can nail that at UDS [09:49] well, thanks guys, i'll give it a try for a bit, but it does seem like older boys at school claiming "it hurts the first few times but you get used to it and might like it - i do" [09:49] lol [09:50] just remember, if your really hate Unity - there are other options [09:50] lots of em [09:50] I guess i just like consistency [09:51] Text mode consoles have consistency ;) [09:51] but then again going from Mac system 6.0.5 to 6.0.8 with multifinder was confusing at first [09:52] and I'm completely lost on these new macs [09:52] so many bouncy things bobbling up and down [09:53] m0ng, if you want something that kinda looks and feels like old Gnome then try Lubuntu with the LXDE desktop [09:53] its not as feature rich as Gnome was, but also not as bloated [09:54] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:System6.0.8MacII.png if it looked like this i'd be less confused [09:54] :D [09:54] Just think of it as a new thing instead of something that's like something you already know [09:54] don't get me wrong, i like the fact that i have a colour screen now [09:55] MartijnVdS, i like new things, but not sprung on me [09:55] m0ng: Only way to accomplish that is to develop them yourself :) [09:56] which is totally an option [09:56] i guess its like i might like a hovercraft, but i'd be really annoyed if i came out my house to drive to work and someone had taken my car away and left me one [09:56] AlanBell: well, maybe not the developing itself, but you can get VERY close without writing a single line of code by running the dev builds of everything [09:56] because i need to get to work. [09:57] * AlanBell would love to go to work in a hovercraft, that would be *awesome* [09:57] unless it's full of eels, of course [09:57] +1 [09:57] and if i want to learn to fly a hovercraft i'll chose when and where and in my free time [09:58] but if you choose to update to a new version - is it not up to you to find out what 'features' the new version has ? [09:58] hmm [09:58] i see update and change as seperate [09:58] you shouldn't :) [09:58] without change, what are you updating ? [09:58] update kind of implies (in my mind) more of the same but better [09:59] now that is funny [09:59] * AlanBell updates precise again [09:59] * MartijnVdS hopes they fixed sound in flash in precise [09:59] * ubuntubhoy needs to re-install his precise [09:59] it's the first thing that broke on upgrade [09:59] like if i update my car from a vw golf mk 4 to a mk5 i might expect cupholders and maybe better fuel economy, not having the steering wheel replaced with a joystick [10:00] or analogue speedo to digital? [10:00] total interface re-design [10:00] can be very confusing [10:00] * MartijnVdS has a nice loop in precise: [10:01] more like analogue speedo to giant digital numbers right in the middle of the windscreen [10:01] install vlc -> all kinds of :386 libs become "installed but no longer necessary" [10:01] now that sounds cool, HUD [10:01] dist-upgrade -> get all the i386 libs back but lose vlc [10:01] lol [10:01] and now the headlight dim-dip is accessed via typing 'dip headlights' into a search box [10:02] It's annoying, and I can't figure out WHY [10:02] meh, mine has a freekout with opendesktop and the touchscreen wont work [10:04] oh well, thanks again for the help, and if anyone here has any influence with anyone in a position to do so, may i suggest that things like this are a 'new' version in the future - ubuntu, kubuntu, GIANTICONHIDDENMENUSbuntu [10:05] haha [10:05] it IS a new version [10:05] 11.x [10:07] * popey sighs [10:07] morning all [10:07] \o popey [10:10] Morning [10:13] good morning lovelies [10:23] \o christel [10:33] czajkowski, prod and runs [10:37] good mornign everyone. [10:38] howdy brobostigon [10:38] morning MartijnVdS [10:39] morning [10:39] morning daubers [10:40] * MartijnVdS leaves again, time for some last-weekend christmas shopping [10:40] (I have too many siblings.. :)) [11:06] I just found a use for the music lens! [11:07] it is the only one you can fully empty to get a screenshot of an empty lens so you can use it as a base to design a new one [11:24] off to get a christmas tree in a sec [11:33] In the Power Settings (in precise), the "when the lid is closed" sections have Hibernate in the menus, but it's disabled. I remember something about disabling hibernate unless the machine's on a whitelist, but I'm not sure that that happened; can I re-enable it in order to try whether hibernate works? [11:35] Woot! [11:35] * daubers haz kindle [11:36] \o everybody [11:36] daubers: is it good? [11:36] jutnux: only just turned it on :) [11:36] Ah. I was thinking of getting one [11:37] * jutnux groans [11:37] tea is cold [11:37] microwave technology pioneered in the second world war continues to benefits our lives to this day [11:38] by ... allowing us to warm up our tea when goes cold :) [11:40] But the Microwave is downstairs :-( [11:46] Microwaving tea sounds so wrong. [11:47] It only heats it up ;-) [11:48] I know, jutnux - I guess I prefer to make a new cup than reheat one which has gone cold. [11:48] woot, textbooks loaded on kindle [11:50] Sorry, kind of insinuated that you were an idiot there haha. I just drink the cold tea. [11:52] lol did you? [11:53] I thought you were just kidding, and I am only vaguely aware of the effects of microwaves on something like tea, which is mainly water, as opposed to vegetables, which probably get largely destroyed in terms of the vitaims. [11:55] Or destroying a microwave friendly plate, in my case. [11:56] ah yes, I've done that before trying to heat bacon [11:57] It just melted :-( [11:57] And the smell was actually disgusting. [12:07] I burned a potato in a microwave once [12:08] dwatkins: I've never understood why people think that microwave cooking "destroys vitamins" [12:08] there's no mechanism for it [12:09] not beyond heating which will eventually start to break them up [12:10] there was a horrible burning smell but no visible signs, so I thought my microwave was broken [12:12] gordonjcp: we had a talk from a nutritionist recently in my office, but she lost half the room when she started talking about energy and the crystal-based thing on her laptop to 'absorb the negative energy' [12:13] * dwatkins looks it up and discovers that boiling actually destroys more vitamins [12:13] you lost me at "nutritionist" [12:13] gordonjcp: well indeed, you don't need any qualifications to do a talk and be introduced as one [12:14] nutritionists are basically fake dietitians who got a "diploma" over the internet [12:14] like "Dr" Gillian McKeith [12:17] so I'm discovering, yes [12:19] basically, it comes down to this [12:19] in the west we eat too much cheap greasy poor-quality meat [12:19] and we don't exercise enough [12:20] and we eat too much processed food, and "low fat" food [12:20] cut all that shit out [12:20] I am generally aware of this, and taking steps to excercise more. [12:20] Do you know that Diet Coke is worse for you than normal coke? [12:20] eat properly, buy your meat at a proper butcher, and get your fat arse up some hills [12:21] don't eat margarine or "low fat spread", that shit is horrible for you [12:21] you could try putting maybe emulsion paint on your toast, it's not likely to be any worse [12:21] it's certainly less synthetic [12:21] gordonjcp: "eating less, exercising more", in short [12:22] Meat at the butcher is cheaper than Tesco, around here anyway. [12:23] Better taste too usually [12:23] MartijnVdS: and not eating cheap crappy food, particularly meat [12:24] jutnux: yup [12:24] and you can get more unusual stuff [12:24] supermarkets tend to have cheap crappy factory farmed stuff and then ridiculously expensive crappy slightly less factory farmed stuff [12:24] gordonjcp: you can eat crappy food if you like, as long as you don't eat much and exercise to compensate :) [12:24] and occasionally "ZOMG WOW CRAZY" shit like ostrich [12:24] My Dad was having a barbecue and we went to the Butchers [12:24] gordonjcp: I've lost 30kg that way :) [12:24] and it was something like 20 burgers for £3 [12:25] you can't get mutton, for example [12:26] I wouldn't eat lamb or mutton anyway, friends of mine keep sheep as pets. It's on a par with eating cat or dog to me [12:28] I've grown to love duck [12:29] dwatkins: do you eat chicken? [12:30] MartijnVdS: yes, but I try to buy meat that's not from intensive [i.e. battery] farms [12:30] dwatkins: but AlanBell keeps chickens! [12:30] I was not aware of this. [12:41] he feeds them Kubuntu CDs [12:45] I don't know whether I like Kubuntu or not at the minute. [12:45] KDE even [12:46] I think I will give it another try. [12:57] * MartijnVdS wants those neodymium magnets to arrive [12:58] ooh ball thingies? [12:58] they rock [12:58] christel: not balls, but round discs [12:59] Got a bunch cheap on ebay [13:00] going to sugru one to the lid of my record player so it'll stay up properly :) [13:06] ah cool [13:06] * daubers makes moar coffee [13:07] * MartijnVdS found "Super Magnet Man" on Youtube. Never heard a stronger accent :) [13:08] Does anyone here actually like Unity? Or do you all use XFCE? [13:08] * MartijnVdS likes it [13:09] Me too heh [13:22] popey: Are you still offering beta accounts for trublr? === tubadaz_ is now known as tubadaz [14:32] Hi everybody! [14:42] \o [14:52] \o/ Plastikman [14:53] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqprso8TGOk [14:56] * jutnux pokes MartijnVdS [14:56] too downbeat for me haha [14:56] * MartijnVdS is poked [14:57] it's a Saturday afternoon! :) [14:58] jutnux: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyTazPPWIKk then? [14:58] Would be good if I could understand what they were saying :-( [14:59] jutnux: the video is almost literally what's being said [14:59] depicts* [14:59] *grammar* [14:59] Ph tihjt ;- [14:59] http://t.nafallo.me/mastering_swedish_-_lesson_1.mp3 [14:59] Damnit [14:59] Touch typing fail [14:59] Oh right ;) [14:59] jutnux: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KzOZPRv5rs then? [15:00] Not my kind of music haha [15:01] jutnux: you're picky, aren't you? :) [15:01] Yes, I prefer rock haha. [15:03] jutnux: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM6CjDjIqfE [15:04] Much better ;-) [15:04] Even though it's more swingy. [15:04] well they're the "Tiny Little Bigband" [15:49] Joy [15:49] Setting up a backup server [15:50] that is joy. [15:50] So boring :-( [15:51] too easy? :-) [15:53] Partly [15:53] It's just to zip some photos onto and run some things [15:55] I just rsync to my synology nightly [15:56] What was I thinking [15:56] CentOS was installed [15:56] I use deja-dup w/ ssh-backend. it's surpringly simple [15:56] say goodbye, foul demon. [15:56] Nafallo: deja-dup doesn't work for me [15:56] moo [15:56] Nafallo: it creates the destination directoy, then dies. [15:56] * jutnux pokes directhex [15:56] MartijnVdS: investigate why? file a bug? [15:57] Nafallo: I have a working setup with rsync, so I don't really care [16:15] * daubers demands that the world warms up [16:16] * gordonjcp adjusts the boiler, listens to the soft whooph of dead dinosaurs being turned into cosy [16:18] * daubers wishes he had a boiler [16:19] stupid electric heaters [16:20] * jutnux is chilling with the window open [16:23] time to upgrade the laptop to precise [16:24] Is your desktop running precise MartijnVdS? (if you have one that is) [16:24] yes [16:24] * MartijnVdS likes living on the edge [16:25] * penguin42 has desktop and laptop running precise - from last week; haven't updated them yet today [16:25] Has much changed? [16:25] not really [16:25] how does one stop one's Drive from clicking [16:25] it's worrying me [16:25] monsterwizard: what brand? [16:25] Put a giant hammer into it [16:25] :o [16:25] acer ? [16:25] monsterwizard: Replace it........ [16:26] :( [16:26] monsterwizard: Depends on the click; most are a sign it's dying - but some are just noisy [16:26] it's only 5 months old [16:26] monsterwizard: Use smartctl (or the equivalent in disk utils) to look at the error details on the drive [16:26] daubers: My brand new WD disk clicked, until I poked it with a "stop trying to go to sleep" tool from WDF [16:26] WD [16:26] monsterwizard: It's normally created by the head stalling/getting stuck [16:26] MartijnVdS, [16:26] MartijnVdS, [16:26] Grrr [16:27] MartijnVdS: Lesson here (don't use a stupid keyboard) and don't by WD disks :) [16:27] s/by/buy [16:27] daubers: yes, I've learned :) [16:28] But my other disk had almost died and it was the start of the HD draught (Thailand flood) [16:28] Know all about that :( [16:28] spent a week chasing drives for work. Think I have enough till feb now [16:29] £95 drive two months ago is ~£260 now [16:29] I hope SSDs start dropping in price before spinning rust does [16:30] unlikely, but would be nice [16:30] odd a flood causing a drought [16:31] There's a lot of rust in the HD factories [16:31] too bad it's not in spinning disk shape [16:32] I've discovered that kindles are awesome at displaying datasheets for components [16:32] they are? [16:32] I've only used mine for books [16:33] also, I don't have too many components that have datasheets [16:34] not separated ones anyway [16:34] :) [16:50] afternoonings everyone. [16:50] hey, Doctor Who - Dreamland on BBC1 [16:51] MartijnVdS: when? [16:51] now [16:51] MartijnVdS: isnt here, :( [16:52] brobostigon: oops, looked wrong, it's bbc hd [16:52] sorry [16:52] ah, :( [16:53] isn't that on freeview though? [16:53] no idea. [16:53] http://faq.external.bbc.co.uk/questions/help_receiving/freeview_bbchd :) [16:54] ah, :) [17:00] MartijnVdS: it will be on iplayer? so could i pull it with get-iplayer? [17:02] brobostigon: I've seen it before [17:02] so it should be [17:03] ok, :) [17:03] brobostigon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamland_(Doctor_Who) [17:05] thank you. [17:26] Hi Folks, can I ask about ddd here. [17:26] the gdb frontend? [17:27] yes using gdb on a C++ program called gpsim for simulating microcontrollers. [17:27] I used to used ddd years ago but now I'm like a new user again. [17:28] I can't get it to show the source files, its listing some of the header files. [17:28] yeh, haven't used it for at least 10 years - I just tend to use gdb [17:28] Then I can just use gdb if you can help. I have used the command ' directory src' to add src to the source path. The 'src' dir contains the cc files that I want to list. [17:29] does that work? [17:30] No, its supposed to add the 'src' directory to the source path so that the source files in that dir can be listed. Maybe I've missunderstood the help. [17:30] yeh, can you pastebin a gdb session showing what you're doing? [17:31] I'll try that [17:34] http://pastebin.com/kUe8AP5a [17:39] Any ideas. The pastebin session shows that "pic-registers.cc:1: Error in sourced command file:" however that file only starts with the usual gnu copy right. [17:40] Sorry I've realised that source is the wrong thing to do there, thats like source a file of gdb commands I think. [17:42]