[14:02] <mazda01> good morning
[14:02] <oCean> hello mazda01
[14:03] <mazda01> hello
[14:03] <oCean> I've seen what happend in #ubuntu, how can I help you?
[14:03] <mazda01> I have a problem
[14:03] <mazda01> ikonia banned me for what I feel was uneccessary short small comments I made
[14:04] <oCean> As ikonia is helping others in #ubuntu, I'm available to discuss this
[14:04] <oCean> ok
[14:04] <mazda01> im listening and really frustrated BUT will try to remain calm
[14:04] <oCean> I don't think it's useful to start a discussion if you're feeling really frustrated now
[14:05] <mazda01> i understand
[14:05] <mazda01> i will refrain from stating my current emotion then
[14:05] <oCean> Do you understand that the #ubuntu channel is a very high-traffic channel?
[14:06] <oCean> And that we (the ops) have to point many, many users on their offtopic conversations?
[14:06] <mazda01> i do understand. i am sorry. I wasn't sure how to say what I wanted to say privately
[14:07] <oCean> mazda01: well, even when you want to talk to someone in private, it's polite to ask them first
[14:07] <oCean> "hey oCean, can I pm you?"
[14:08] <oCean> mazda01: are you still there?
[14:08] <mazda01> ah, ok. i am not new to IRC but am new to getting into a heated discussion and I admit, I may have handled inaproprietely but feel a ban from a channel that I have contributed to over 5 years is a bit much imo
[14:09] <oCean> You have been in #u for 5 years?
[14:09] <mazda01> yes
[14:09] <oCean> So you KNOW how strict we are with offtopic conversation there?
[14:10] <mazda01> oCean, no, i have to admit I hadn't been in IRC #ubuntu for a couple years and back then some comments offtopic were not bannable that I was aware of
[14:11] <oCean> first of all, there is no karma. Even if you had been active for the last 2, 3 or 5 years, you get the same treatment as anyone else
[14:11] <oCean> second, this brings us to the reason of your ban
[14:11] <mazda01> ok, listening.
[14:12] <oCean> we DON'T alow talkback like this "ikonia, LOL, you're right. YOU HAVE. take care bud, im know what's going on. im not stupid despite what you THINK  you know about me"
[14:12] <oCean> and especially threats like "ikonia, federal charges can be sought if I wanted to pursue this. last comment. you have nice day"
[14:12] <oCean> I have no clue why you would bring up "fedral charges"!?
[14:13] <mazda01> because i Have proof of logs in my server for a possible SSH attack at the eact moment ikonia and I got heated in offtopic
[14:13] <mazda01> i admit, i may have jumped the gun but as I said, i wasn't sure how to PM him and I may have been very heated and didn't use the proper channels to express my accusation. I apologize sincerely for that
[14:13] <oCean> wait, are you saying that you suspect us/ikonia of doing that?
[14:13] <mazda01> yes I am
[14:14] <mazda01> suspecting, not saying he did or didn't, I suspect
[14:14] <mazda01> http://pastebin.com/NpY1TMJZ
[14:14] <mazda01> there's my ssh log.
[14:15] <mazda01> i am not sure if he lives in dallas or france BUT i can find out if you OPS tell me
[14:15] <oCean> Dec 11th?
[14:15] <mazda01> scroll down please
[14:15] <mazda01> there is the whole proxy thing IF he used one, i know that.
[14:15] <mazda01> IF he didn't use a proxy I have his domain/ip showing proof
[14:16] <mazda01> before this gets outta hand, is there some other process for handling this?
[14:16] <mazda01> some legal thing I should pursue? or at a minimum investigate with a lawyer?
[14:16] <oCean> Well, I think you jumped the conclusion there, probably because you were heated as you say
[14:17]  * mneptok blinks
[14:17] <mazda01> so you can't confirm or deny that ikonia is from france or dallas?
[14:17] <mazda01> who can?
[14:17] <oCean> If you still think that we/ikonia have anything to do with a certain "ssh attack" I don't think it's wise to let you in the channel
[14:17] <mazda01> i agree with your initial statement
[14:17] <oCean> mazda01: yes, ikonia confirmed that none of the ips shown are his
[14:18] <mazda01> BUT ask that you reconsider letting me back in ubuntu channel
[14:18] <mazda01> i am dannyboy79 on ubuntuforums.org and provide support to many people
[14:18] <oCean> mazda01: but I have to say, your machine is under some sort of attack
[14:18] <mazda01> over the last 5 years
[14:18] <oCean> for days now
[14:18] <mazda01> it constantly is. LOL  i paid someone to ensure my webserver and ssh server were locked down to military standards
[14:19] <mazda01> im not worried
[14:19] <oCean> If you feel the need to escalate this, we have an appeals process in place.
[14:19] <mazda01> ok, so now we know it wasn't ikonia and I apologize for publically saying the things I did
[14:19] <oCean> But for now I would say, take a brake for a couple of hours, to calm down
[14:19] <mazda01> and this is merely based on him saying neither IP is his, no other fact correct?
[14:20] <oCean> After that, when you return we can lift the ban and continue
[14:20] <mazda01> do you know his IP?
[14:20] <oCean> mazda01: correct
[14:20] <mazda01> im calm
[14:20] <oCean> mazda01: no, I trust him
[14:20] <mazda01> so you don't know his IP and you don't know where he lives?
[14:20] <oCean> mazda01: I don't care, if he (or any other op) say no, then I believe them
[14:20] <mazda01> so, we're using the "word" of an OP?
[14:20] <mazda01> fair enough
[14:20] <oCean> sorry?
[14:21] <oCean> OP = channel operator
[14:21] <oCean> oh
[14:21] <mazda01> yes, i know what an OP is
[14:21] <oCean> I understand what you meant
[14:21] <oCean> sorry
[14:21] <mazda01> as I said, i've been around 5 years on ubuntu.
[14:21] <oCean> Yes, they give me their word, I trust them
[14:21] <mazda01> IRC channel and ubuntuforums.org
[14:21] <oCean> mazda01: as I said, there's no karma. 3 days or 3 years
[14:22] <oCean> Please, take a couple of hours off. I think we can solve it when you come back
[14:22] <oCean> if not..
[14:22] <oCean> !appeals > mazda01
[14:22] <mazda01> so you're going to uphold his decision to ban me solely because he "says" neither IP is his OR the fact that I publically went offtopic and threatened him?
[14:22] <oCean> mazda01: I think your suspicion is silly since you have been under attack for days
[14:22] <mazda01> which one is it please?
[14:23] <oCean> the threat warranted te kick/ban
[14:23] <mazda01> granted, it may be. BUT we don't know FOR SURE. and I apologize "for screaming" but I am trying to empahisize what I feel is unjust
[14:23] <oCean> Don't know what for sure?
[14:23] <mazda01> can you see my position?
[14:23] <mazda01> we don't know ikonia's IP for certain?
[14:24] <mazda01> this could all be solved here and now without further escalation IF he tells me his IP and it's provable
[14:24] <oCean> That does not matter at all
[14:24] <oCean> If you want to pursue this, I recommend to contact the IRC Council as described in the !appeals process
[14:24] <mazda01> ok, so for now I remain banned?
[14:25] <mneptok> mazda01: i get an average of ~100 attempts per day, every day, to break into my *home* server. it's nothing new.
[14:25] <mazda01> mneptok, and i know that
[14:25] <mazda01> mneptok, lol, i do to
[14:25] <mazda01> please explain to me what the harm is in ikonia proving his IP?
[14:25] <mneptok> mazda01: OK, so i ask you with aboslutlely no malice ....
[14:26] <oCean> mazda01: yes, your ban will be in place for at least the next 6 hours. Take a brake, and let's resolve this after hat
[14:26] <mazda01> oCean, you got it. 6 hours isn't too bad.
[14:26] <mneptok> you think you're going to get traction with a lawyer or a court system over a single IPs attempt to break-in? when it happens millions of times every day?
[14:26] <mazda01> mneptok, yes
[14:26] <mneptok> mazda01: best of luck with that, really.
[14:26] <oCean> mazda01: fine, we'll continue then.
[14:26] <mazda01> mneptok, i will escalate it to the most expenseive lawyer in exsistance
[14:27] <mazda01> oCean, ok, thank you all for your time. everytying is logged and documented
[14:27] <mazda01> thank you again, you guys have a nice day and we'll see you in the appeals process possibly
[14:27] <mazda01> I must add one last thing, is that ok?
[14:28] <oCean> sure
[14:28] <oCean> also, the logs are publicly available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/12/18/%23ubuntu-ops.txt (cycled once an hour)
[14:29] <mazda01> i will do everything in my power to find out the truth and the truth will be known by all! I have been an ubuntu user for 5+ years and love ubuntu and to get banned from something i cherish and love hurts deep down inside. I pray that it was NOT ikonia and that I accidentlly went off half cocked and if so, I aplogize to the utmost
[14:29] <mazda01> BUT the truth will prevail
[14:29] <mazda01> nnuff said. i got stuff to do and 6 hours is nothing. Thank you for your ears. you guys are doing a graet job
[14:30] <mazda01> Ubuntu rocks!
[14:30] <mneptok> mazda01: just sayin' ... if you hold off on "doing everything in my power" with "the most expensive lawyer in exisistence" then there will be less to apologize for later.
[14:31] <mazda01> mneptok, im not worried about apologizing to people i don't know. I am wworried about not being able to access ubuntu on IRC so I will think heavy before I pull any triggers
[14:31] <mneptok> mazda01: i'll leave you with tis thought. the *worst* part of being on the Ubuntu IRC Ops Team is the fact that suddenly you have to take IRC very, VERY seriously.
[14:31] <mazda01> mneptok, money is no object for me or the company that I will have back me
[14:31] <mazda01> mneptok, i agree
[14:31] <mazda01> mneptok, "attempting to hack" someones machine is a serious deal in USA
[14:31] <mneptok> mazda01: you're *choosing* to make this all deadly serious.
[14:32] <mazda01> mneptok, you don't think being hacked is serious?
[14:32] <mneptok> mazda01: it *can be* a serious deal. but it is not if you choose to allow such small things to pass.
[14:32] <mazda01> mneptok, i have company critical data in my internal network. why do you tihkn i paid tons of money to ensure it was locked down per military standards?
[14:32] <mneptok> mazda01: may i anseer honestly?
[14:32] <mazda01> yes
[14:32] <mneptok> *answer
[14:32] <mneptok> i don't care.
[14:33] <mazda01> ok
[14:33] <mazda01> and you don't have to care.
[14:33] <mneptok> it's Sunday. the sun is rising. my wife is lying in bed.
[14:33] <mazda01> no one carews as I am finding out.
[14:33] <mneptok> i awoke with food in my pantry, a place to sleep, a roof.
[14:33] <mneptok> i'm a pretty happy guy.
[14:33] <mazda01> mneptok, i am happy for you
[14:34] <mazda01> why does it seem to me then that "no one cares"
[14:34] <mneptok> of course, if i chose to read my server's denyhosts reports that would change. but WHY would i WANT that change?
[14:35] <mazda01> mneptok, why? because say you were on IRC and got in a heated "discussion" with someone. you thought to yourself, hmmm, this guys knows his stuff, he may just make some stupid miastake and try to hack me, I better watch the logs
[14:35] <mneptok> you are seeking out and creating disharmony and conflict. that rarely ends well, IME. karma is a stern hand on life's tiller.
[14:35] <mneptok> mazda01: why watch the logs?
[14:35] <mazda01> karma has brought to where i am today, successfully hired as a MS SBS system admin all without any eduation
[14:35] <mazda01> karma has been good to me lately so I fully believe in a higher power and karma
[14:36] <mazda01> mneptok, i told you why already.
[14:36] <oCean> mazda01: have you ever considered using a cloak when using the IRC network?
[14:36] <mazda01> my goal is NOT to create conflict or disharmony. my goal is to have access to ubuntu channel
[14:36]  * mneptok tootles off to make coffee
[14:37] <mneptok> mazda01: i would suggest that accusations against ops and threats of legal repercussions are hardly in the spirit of Ubuntu
[14:37] <mazda01> oCean, may I ask why we're even going into that conversation. why even ask me that stuff? I am attempting to remaain as calm as possible and speak as a professional and an adult
[14:37] <mazda01> mneptok, i agree, and if it's a false acusation then I will eat my words
[14:37] <mazda01> i will be permanently banned from ubuntu
[14:37] <mazda01> and I undersatnd that
[14:38] <oCean> mazda01: it is merely a suggestion, that's all. I mean, you paid good money to secure your server, but without a cloak you still are showing your ip to everyone
[14:38] <mazda01> i made a mistake by publically acccusing an OP of something and I will deal with the consequences but I will lay down for anyone.
[14:38] <mazda01> oCean, because I am confident that it's secure, I don't care who see my IP
[14:38] <oCean> mazda01: i really did not say that to upset you. Lots of irc users are using cloaks
[14:38] <oCean> mazda01: ok, fine.
[14:39] <mazda01> if a security professional tells me im locked down, then i trust him
[14:39] <mazda01> this is getting real, real fast. i am going to take that 6 hour break that you suggested.
[14:39] <mazda01> thank you for listening and being professional
[14:39] <mneptok> mazda01: was the softlayer.com address one of the ones causing you concern?
[14:40] <mazda01> the times are going to be after ikonia felt frustrated by my araogance. this is my opinion
[14:40] <mazda01> which, you'll be abel to see I was not arogant
[14:40] <mneptok> because FYI, i have the same IP in my denyhosts report from yesterday
[14:40] <mneptok> so if ikonia is trying to hack you, he's also trying to hack me.
[14:40] <mneptok>    174.36.4.83 (174.36.4.83-static.reverse.softlayer.com): 2 times
[14:40] <mneptok>       sysgames: 2 times
[14:40] <mazda01> mneptok, ok, then lets forget that one
[14:41] <mazda01> 8:07 am CST time, 217.119.188.202 tried to BREAK IN
[14:41] <mazda01> whois says that IP originates in FRANCE
[14:42] <mazda01> IF ikonia lives anywhere near FRANCE, it's possible this is going to end badly
[14:42] <mazda01> OR, if he was smart, he used a proxy
[14:42] <popey> mazda01: Stop making baseless accusations.
[14:42] <mazda01> popey, ok, i aplogize
[14:42] <popey> This isn't going to get you anywhere.
[14:42] <mneptok> mazda01: i'm just saying that you *hired* someone to do security for you. so you're not an expert (and neither am i). but you're betting your reputation in the Ubuntu community on security issues you do not understand. i wouldn't do that.
[14:42] <mazda01> BUT you OP's have to look at it from my POV
[14:43] <mazda01> mneptok, there's no relevance to your comment regarding our current situation of me being banned
[14:43] <popey> mazda01: is your point of view the point of view of someone who doesn't quite understand that attacks like this go on all day and night, and are almost all scripted, passing through compromised hosts?
[14:43] <mazda01> popey, NO, i know that
[14:44] <popey> right, so stop singling out someone you have a personal beef with and get over it
[14:44] <mazda01> OP's you guys have been more then fair with me. i appreciate that.
[14:44] <mneptok> mazda01: i do look at it from your POV. and if it were me, and i saw someone trying to break into a server i had paid thousands to get secured to military standards, my POV would be "good luck, cracker jerkface. i'm going downstairs for some PS3 time."
[14:44] <mazda01> popey, i do not have a beef with him. never did
[14:44] <popey> mazda01: stop making accusations then
[14:44] <mazda01> popey, i will
[14:44] <mazda01> IF all pans out
[14:44] <popey> no, not if
[14:44] <mazda01> lol
[14:44] <mazda01> ok
[14:44] <mazda01> you're right
[14:44] <popey> you're continuing with your accusations
[14:44] <mazda01> i am in the OP channel to resolve an issue.
[14:45] <mazda01> is this the correc tlocation?
[14:45] <mneptok> it is
[14:46] <mazda01> mneptok, ok, again, I apologize for publically accusing ikonia for "attempting to hack" into my internal network. May I now be unbaned from #ubuntu?
[14:46] <mneptok> i think oCean and you had a great idea in talking about this later. popey and i are just trying to get you to the point other ops will *want* to deal with you.
[14:46] <mazda01> I apologize for commenting offtopic in #ubuntu
[14:46] <mneptok> mazda01: no, you may not. because i really see no change to the underlying attitude that caused the problem in the first place
[14:46] <mazda01> mneptok, ok, fair enough
[14:46] <mneptok> thank you for understanding
[14:46] <mazda01> mneptok, I will see you guys in 6 hours. I look forward to discussing it then
[14:47] <mneptok> perfect.
[14:47] <mazda01> OR will my ban just be dropped after 6 hours?
[14:47] <mneptok> no bans expire automagically.
[14:47] <mazda01> ok, now I have that fact staright. thakn you for clarifying
[14:47] <mazda01> goodbye
[14:48] <mneptok> OK, i really, REALLY need coffee now.
[14:49] <oCean> @mark #ubuntu *!*@cpe-173-89-62-76.wi.res.rr.com threatened ikonia with legal action, because suspecting him to be attacking his machine. After conversation in -ops, agreed to take 6hr break to calm down.
[14:50] <oCean> ubottu: hello?
[14:51] <oCean> @mark #ubuntu mazda01 threatened ikonia with legal action, because suspecting him to be attacking his machine After conversation in -ops, agreed to take 6hr break to calm down
[14:51] <oCean> uh
[14:51] <oCean> @whoami
[14:51] <oCean> @login
[14:52] <oCean> @whoami
[14:52] <oCean> @mark #ubuntu *!*@cpe-173-89-62-76.wi.res.rr.com threatened ikonia with legal action, because suspecting him to be attacking his machine. After conversation in -ops, agreed to take 6hr break to calm down.
[14:52] <oCean> you silly bot!
[14:52] <oCean> @mark #ubuntu mazda01 threatened ikonia with legal action, because suspecting him to be attacking his machine After conversation in -ops, agreed to take 6hr break to calm down
[14:52]  * oCean sighs
[15:01] <Tm_T> (:
[16:31] <oCean> hey
[16:33] <Sidewinder1> Just so that you guys/gals, know, I don't think that mazda01, is necessarily a "bad-guy" , I just think he had an issue with ikonia, And, kinda' jumped off, where he shouldn't have..
[16:34] <oCean> Noted.
[16:35] <Sidewinder1> I know, oCean, you went on with 'im, almost forever, (I wouldn't  have had the patience).. But, I just, kinda', wanted to let you know..
[16:36] <oCean> I take he'll be more reasonable when he's back.
[16:37] <Sidewinder1> Perhaps, when he comes back, he'll mend his ways... And I'll be more than willing to explain to him...  I know, my typing stinks; even with the new keyboard, that Santa, delivered eatly..
[16:38] <Sidewinder1> Parting, now.. :-)
[21:33] <Myrtti> got to love the commentary
[23:13] <mazda01> Howdy
[23:14] <ikonia> hello mazda01
[23:14] <mazda01> is either mneptok or the other guuy around?
[23:14] <mazda01> hello ikonia
[23:14] <ikonia> I don't believe mneptok or oCean are active at this time, but I could be wrong
[23:15] <mazda01> so whats the next step? I am not sure if they had informed you that I am truly sorry for publically threatening
[23:15] <mazda01> you
[23:15] <ikonia> I saw the conversation
[23:15] <mazda01> and going offtopic within ubuntu
[23:15] <ikonia> it's not a problem.
[23:15] <mazda01> i'd like to be able to help users with ubuntu. is there a way to get unbanned or should I go through the appeal process?
[23:16] <ikonia> I'm happy to unban you as you seemed to have grasped the issue
[23:18] <ikonia> mazda01: I've removed the ban forward in #ubuntu now, so if you leave this channel and try to join you should be able to use the channel
[23:19] <mazda01> sounds good, thank you. take care
[23:19] <ikonia> bye