[01:21] <RAOF> Urgh.  Steaming is not kind to slightly-less-than-fresh milk.
[04:29] <RAOF> Huh.  Thunder.
[05:06] <RAOF> Crazy weather!  Who moved Sydney's rain down to Hobart?
[05:22] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF: I had so much rain over hte weekend...yesterday I was cleaning the mini-flood from our basement.
[05:22] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF: stupid weather
[07:32] <pitti> Good morning
[07:59] <pitti> RAOF: ah, installing linux-image-3.2.0-6-generic now, let's see whether that cures the hangs
[08:00] <RAOF> pitti: Oh, we've got a new kernel, based on rc6?  Sweet.  I can have both a non-crashy system *and* have sbuild work!
[08:00] <pitti> RAOF: yes, it's -rc6
[08:00] <pitti> RAOF: I grabbed it from NEW
[08:01] <pitti> RAOF: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/3.2.0-6.12/+build/3021232
[08:01] <pitti> still need to wait for the doorstopper arches to finish building, then NEWing, l-meta, etc. until everyone gets it
[08:02] <RAOF> Yeeehaw!
[08:20] <GunnarHj> pitti: Good morning, Martin!
[08:20] <pitti> hello GunnarHj, how are you?
[08:20] <GunnarHj> pitti: Fine, thanks. Hope you are as well.
[08:21] <GunnarHj> pitti: Can you please take a look at bug 905429? It's a regression from the pygobject upgrade last Friday.
[08:21] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 905429 in python2.7 "gnome-language-selector crashed with ValueError in _build_localename(): too many values to unpack" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/905429
[08:21] <pitti> I am
[08:21] <pitti> GunnarHj: yes, already on my list for today
[08:21] <pitti> it's my last official day, need to clean up my list :)
[08:21] <GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, great.
[08:22] <GunnarHj> pitti: Does it include the a-s and l-s MPs? :)
[08:22] <pitti> less urgent than above crash, but in general, everything which is sitting in my ubuntu mailbox :0
[08:22] <pitti> at least it seems this morning we didn't get any major iso build breakage or other nasty bug
[08:22] <pitti> so no firefighting to do this morning
[08:22] <GunnarHj> pitti: Sounds promising. :)
[08:23] <pitti> last week was full of that
[08:24] <mainerror> So that is what you do to make my early Precise journey that pleasant?
[08:25] <pitti> basically, watch like a hawk for problems, and fix them :)
[08:25] <pitti> and since we have a dedicated team for this, this actually works
[08:26] <pitti> supported by daily automatic testing in https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise/
[08:26] <pitti> (bad example today, the server tests are broken, but the server ISOs themselves should be good)
[08:26] <pitti> and a general mindset of developers to not break stuff so hard
[08:27] <mainerror> Yea I was listening to the stream for that session.
[08:28] <RAOF> pitti: Do you know what I need to do to turn a PPA into something that we can copy into the archive?
[08:28] <pitti> RAOF: hm, kindly ask the launchpad guys to give you one of these "blessed" nonvirtualized PPAs?
[08:28] <RAOF> Ok.  I think we may have done that.
[08:29] <mainerror> I should totally get cracking with learning how to package. Sounds like something that should be fun.
[08:30] <pitti> mainerror: you'll find a lot of agreement in this channel :)
[08:30] <RAOF> I'll finish the rest of the world-building, then scream at someone that the world *still* breaks when the gesture extension is not available, then prepare to copy to the archive :)
[08:44] <pitti> GunnarHj: did you already happen to send a bug to python upstream? if not, I can do it now
[08:45] <pitti> it's not a problem in python3, but ought to be fixed in python2.7 indeed
[08:48] <pitti> GunnarHj: nevermind, known already -- http://bugs.python.org/issue3067
[08:48] <pitti> so it seems setlocale is not meant to work with unicode in py2.7
[09:00] <rodrigo_> morning
[09:00] <pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
[09:02] <rodrigo_> hi pitti, I'm fine and you?
[09:02] <pitti> rodrigo_: quite fine, thanks! trying to mop up everything outstanding on my last official day today :)
[09:03] <pitti> rodrigo_: how are you? looking forward to the holidays?
[09:03] <rodrigo_> pitti: last official day?
[09:03] <rodrigo_> ah, before vacation?
[09:03] <pitti> rodrigo_: yes
[09:03] <rodrigo_> ah ok
[09:04] <pitti> "official" since I figure I'll need to do a few things here and there until Wednesday, but then I'll disappear
[09:04] <rodrigo_> going anywhere, or just staying at home relaxing? :D
[09:06] <pitti> rodrigo_: no, we'll go to Dresden again to spend the holidays with our families and friends
[09:07] <pitti> all of my friends will also come to Dresden (many are living in different cities or even countries these days), so looking forward to that
[09:15] <GunnarHj> pitti: Saw your comments on the python issue. Only fixing it in l-s  means that locale.setlocale() keeps being broken in Ubuntu, doesn't it?
[09:17] <pitti> GunnarHj: right; but it's always been like that
[09:18] <GunnarHj> pitti: Yes, but the news is that type 'str' strings now are converted to type 'unicode'.
[09:20] <GunnarHj> In gi/overrides/Gtk.py
[09:21] <pitti> so that would happen if you stuff e. g. the contents of an input field right into setlocale() without conversion
[09:21] <pitti> indeed it would be better to fix setlocale(), but seems upstream already rejected that
[09:21] <pitti> and at some point we'll use python3 anyway
[09:22] <pitti> so I guess the committed workaround will do for now
[09:22] <GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, you are the one with a helicopter perspective on it. :)
[09:23] <pitti> well, it's more like the pragmatic perspective :)
[09:23] <pitti> GunnarHj: I have an outstanding MP for l-s which I want to take a look at, then I'll upload
[09:45] <pitti> rodrigo_: do you know if g-settings-daemon starts syndaemon?
[09:46] <pitti> rodrigo_: I'm trying to understand bug 868400, apparently we sometimes get two syndaemons running
[09:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 868400 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics "Synaptics touchpad stops working" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868400
[09:47] <rodrigo_> pitti: yes, it does
[09:48] <pitti> rodrigo_: hm, could that happen if g-s-d spawns syndaemon, then crashes, then restarts, and starts another syndaemon?
[09:48] <rodrigo_> yes
[09:48] <rodrigo_> that might be the cause indeed
[09:48] <pitti> syndaemon_spawned is only valid while g-s-d is running
[09:48] <rodrigo_> yes
[09:49] <pitti> So there is the conflict: two syndaemon instances, one from lightdm and one from logged in user.
[09:49] <pitti> ooh
[09:49] <pitti> or that
[09:49] <rodrigo_> hmm, lightdm runs it?
[09:49] <pitti> but comment 69 has two syndaemons from the user
[09:50] <rodrigo_> then it might be the g-s-d-crashing-and-restarting thing
[09:50] <pitti> and comment 81 is the one with one from lightdm and one from user
[09:50] <rodrigo_> hmm
[09:52] <pitti> rodrigo_: if g-s-d respawns, could it even use the old syndaemon?
[09:52] <pitti> or does it need to know its pid and some fd to it?
[09:54] <rodrigo_> it needs to know the pid
[09:54] <rodrigo_> let me double check
[09:55] <rodrigo_> yes, it keeps track of the pid
[09:55] <pitti> rodrigo_: but only for internal housekeeping
[09:55] <rodrigo_> yes
[09:55] <pitti> rodrigo_: not for actually communicating with it
[09:56] <pitti> rodrigo_: once syndaemon is started, does it work completely on its own or does it need to be controlled from outside/g-s-d?
[09:56] <rodrigo_> it works on its own
[09:56] <pitti> in the former case, it could just call pidof instead of manager->priv->syndaemon_spawned
[09:56] <rodrigo_> hmm, just saw it doesn't kill the pid on exit, although not sure it should
[09:56] <rodrigo_> yes, it could do that, yes
[09:57] <pitti> then if pidof returns true, it coudl just grab that pid
[09:57] <rodrigo_> yeah
[09:57] <pitti> so that it can kill it if the user disables the function
[09:57] <rodrigo_> right, that should be the best way
[09:57] <rodrigo_> syndaemon needs to not run if the feature is disabled
[09:57] <pitti> right
[09:58] <pitti> rodrigo_: I updated the bug accordingly; I gave the lightdm task to robert (I think we should just disable syndaemon completely there via gsettings)
[09:58] <pitti> rodrigo_: I guess you won't have time any more to work on this, though?
[09:59] <rodrigo_> pitti: I'm almost done with the install languages, so once I'm done, if there's time I can work on it
[09:59] <rodrigo_> assign the bug to me for now, if you want
[09:59] <rodrigo_> if no time, I'll assign it back
[09:59] <pitti> rodrigo_: ok, will do; thanks!
[10:00] <rodrigo_> although this is an upstream thing, so I can fix it next week also
[10:00] <pitti> rodrigo_: oh, nice! g-c-c language selector is working now?
[10:00] <rodrigo_> almost
[10:00] <rodrigo_> a few details missing still though
[10:00] <rodrigo_> but almost there :)
[10:00] <pitti> cool!
[10:01] <pitti> rodrigo_: I guess we are still missing the aptdaemon part for returning the set of packages to install?
[10:01] <pitti> what-provides('locale', 'es') or something
[10:01] <rodrigo_> I have a branch with that
[10:02] <rodrigo_> so all should be done tomorrow, or Wed I hope
[10:02] <pitti> oh, already? I had expected to work on this in January, after my stable+1 team shift
[10:02] <pitti> great!
[10:02] <pitti> rodrigo_: are you using l-s' pkg_depends file for this?
[10:03] <pitti> or just call check-language-support?
[10:03] <rodrigo_> yes, needed a backend to test, so aptdaemon was the best fit for now
[10:03] <rodrigo_> just calls check-lang-support
[10:03] <rodrigo_> the missing thing would be to move the script to aptdaemon, right?
[10:03] <pitti> rodrigo_: ah, good; so I can just change that to use the pkg_depends file in January without disrupting anything else
[10:03] <rodrigo_> yeah
[10:03] <pitti> yay for having encapsulation behidn a d-bus api
[10:03] <rodrigo_> :)
[10:04] <pitti> rodrigo_: I'll throw the script away (or just change it to call the d-bus api)
[10:04] <pitti> rodrigo_: in aptdaemon it's much cheaper to figure this out by re-using an existing apt.Cache() instance
[10:04] <rodrigo_> yes
[11:08] <Sweetshark> Bonjours toujours!
[11:08] <Sweetshark> -s
[11:08] <pitti> Sweetshark: argh, noo! the French mafia brainwashed you already?
[11:09] <Sweetshark> pitti: I am just infiltrating them!
[11:09] <Sweetshark> pitti: dont blow my cover.
[11:10]  * Sweetshark has LibreOffice (Libre in the name was also an success of the french mafia) 3.5 beta0 completing ./debian/rules build.
[11:10] <Sweetshark> (on precise)
[11:11] <Sweetshark> but there is still MIR galore ahead (I just switched to --with-system-foo for the stuff we are missing for now)
[11:12] <Sweetshark> ahem
[11:12] <Sweetshark> --without-system-foo
[11:12] <pitti> ah, good; that should hopefully greatly reduce the MIRs?
[11:16] <Sweetshark> pitti: well, I can do a lot more --without-system-foo stuff, that would make my life a lot easier (however the LO package bigger and if there is a security update in the external libs that would suck) ...
[11:17] <pitti> right
[11:17] <pitti> Sweetshark: well, the size will increase either way, as these new external libraries would need to get added to the CD, too
[11:18] <pitti> but external libs are still better for security updates, of course
[11:18] <Sweetshark> pitti: however, it seems some stuff that _rene_ is using isnt even published at debian (libcmis, libtextextcat-dev), so IMHO I would just go with --without-system-foo for those for now.
[11:18] <pitti> Sweetshark: we still have -4MB space left on the CDs, so that's how much they can grow :)
[11:18] <pitti> (i. e. we are already oversized)
[11:20] <Sweetshark> pitti: and I dont think a lot of other apps reusing these libs as of now. If they would we would have them duplicated (once in LO, once system-wide), which really would waste a lot of space.
[11:20] <Sweetshark> (possibly also CD-space)
[11:21] <pitti> Sweetshark: right, for stuff that isn't prone to security vulns, the bundled stuff will do fine for now
[12:57]  * rodrigo_ lunch
[14:39] <Laney> stgraber just created desktop-extra
[14:39] <Laney> have at it :-)
[16:08] <mterry> cyphermox, I'm looking at the 'iw' MIR
[16:08] <mterry> cyphermox, there are some seemingly important bugs in LP.  Is the package working?
[16:10] <cyphermox> it was :)
[16:10] <cyphermox> let me check those bugs again, IIRC it's all stuff that needs to be closed or something
[16:11] <cyphermox> as far as I'm concerned, it works, I can see scan results, etc.
[16:48] <rodrigo_> out for a bit, bbl
[16:52] <jbicha> Laney: thanks
[16:52] <Laney> np
[16:52] <Laney> we can't 'drop' stuff from desktop like that since it's autogenerated
[16:52] <Laney> the seeds need to be fixed
[16:53] <Laney> afaik anyway
[16:53] <Laney> maybe pitti knows more
[16:54] <pitti> Laney: what is "like that"?
[16:54]  * pitti is missing jbicha's questino apparently
[16:54] <jbicha> I think gnome-panel and gnome-applets should be moved from desktop to desktop-extra
[16:55] <pitti> that should be fine, they are in universe now
[16:55] <pitti> edubuntu-desktop-gnome still pulls them in
[16:56] <pitti> I'll verify with cjwatson in #devel
[16:56] <Laney> maybe refreshing the packagesets is a manual process?
[16:59] <jbicha> since we're going with GTK 3.4, is there a reason why I shouldn't upload gedit 3.3 to precise?
[17:02] <pitti> jbicha: as we want to stay on 3.2, I'd turn that question around
[17:02] <pitti> jbicha: i. e. "does or will it depend on anything else in 3.4 and does it improve things noticeably"?
[17:04] <jbicha> pitti: do we want to stay on 3.2? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0
[17:05] <jbicha> gedit doesn't yet depend on 3.3, but it's hard to predict what'll happen
[17:05] <pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-gnome-version
[17:05] <pitti> jbicha: so far it's: glib/gtk 3.4, gnome 3.2, consider g-control-center as we have some active work going on on that
[17:05] <pitti> (or backport the new region panel)
[17:08] <jbicha> the whole 3.2/3.4 thing is still confusing, the pad only lists a few things to keep on 3.2
[17:12] <pitti> need to run, see you tomorrow!
[17:12] <pitti> (I'm officially on vacation from tomorrow on, but need to wrap up a few things)
[17:12] <jbicha> I wonder if gnome-games will still be ok since they've been doing a lot of work on it (porting games to vala for instance)
[17:13] <pitti> jbicha: yes, we can update individual parts if they don't introduce regressions and dependencies to other 3.4 parts
[17:13] <jbicha> well I think gedit will be fine but we'll talk more later