| cdahmedeh | hello friends! any recommendations for an arm development board? it needs to have hdmi output | 01:45 |
|---|---|---|
| cdahmedeh | ideally it should be easy to find (ie, don't have to wait 5 months for order), and not more than 150$ | 01:46 |
| twb | development as in for a hobby, or with an eye to building something production later on? | 01:46 |
| cdahmedeh | hobby | 01:46 |
| twb | Dunno about the HDMI, the most important thing is to make sure it's arm v7 | 01:47 |
| cdahmedeh | why is that so? | 01:47 |
| twb | ubuntu doesn't support earlier versions of the architecture | 01:47 |
| cdahmedeh | alright | 01:48 |
| twb | Which basically means not sheeva/guruplug, everything else is new enough design | 01:48 |
| cdahmedeh | ok | 01:48 |
| twb | A lot of people here seem to be using beagle/panda boards | 01:48 |
| twb | (I'm only here because my netbook is arm, so don't trust anything I say particularly :p) | 01:49 |
| cdahmedeh | hmm.. arm netbook would be an interesting alternative | 01:49 |
| cdahmedeh | the raspberry pi seems interesting, but i have a feeling they're going to be really hard to get at first | 01:51 |
| cdahmedeh | that thing is going to sell like hotcakes | 01:51 |
| lilstevie | raspberry pi is not armv7 | 02:01 |
| cdahmedeh | i don't plan to run ubuntu specifically, debian would do | 02:01 |
| lilstevie | ok, well debian will | 02:02 |
| cdahmedeh | it's armv6 isn't it? | 02:02 |
| lilstevie | raspberry pi? | 02:02 |
| lilstevie | debian is armv4t IIRC | 02:02 |
| lilstevie | and yes, the pi is armv6 | 02:03 |
| cdahmedeh | thanks, you answered my next question (-: | 02:03 |
| cdahmedeh | anyways, do you have any recommendations for an arm development board? | 02:03 |
| lilstevie | but really these armv7 devices are faster | 02:03 |
| lilstevie | beagle/panda | 02:03 |
| lilstevie | for dev boards | 02:03 |
| cdahmedeh | ok | 02:03 |
| lilstevie | beagle is omap3 panda is omap4 | 02:04 |
| lilstevie | so probably over all I would say go the panda | 02:04 |
| cdahmedeh | sounds neat | 02:04 |
| * cdahmedeh looks at ship date | 02:05 | |
| cdahmedeh | oh wow | 02:05 |
| cdahmedeh | jan 18 2012 | 02:06 |
| cdahmedeh | (-: | 02:06 |
| lilstevie | heh | 02:06 |
| lilstevie | you can get the panda from digikey | 02:06 |
| cdahmedeh | that's where i checked | 02:06 |
| lilstevie | heh | 02:06 |
| cdahmedeh | sounds like these arm boards are tricky to find aren't they? | 02:06 |
| lilstevie | they can be | 02:06 |
| lilstevie | they aren't the most common things | 02:07 |
| lilstevie | I have the trimslice myself | 02:07 |
| lilstevie | but that is a fair bit more than your budget | 02:07 |
| lilstevie | panda is only just over it | 02:07 |
| cdahmedeh | yes exactly | 02:07 |
| cdahmedeh | the platforms are very interesting | 02:07 |
| cdahmedeh | the mali 400 sounds really nice, but so far the boards i am finding are expensive | 02:08 |
| lilstevie | yeah | 02:08 |
| lilstevie | well the mali-400 really are only in the exynos dev boards | 02:09 |
| lilstevie | and samsung devel boards are really expensive | 02:09 |
| cdahmedeh | wow, very expensive | 02:10 |
| cdahmedeh | wow these cost more than i thought they would | 02:10 |
| lilstevie | cdahmedeh: which do? | 02:10 |
| lilstevie | exynos, or trimslice | 02:10 |
| lilstevie | or... | 02:10 |
| cdahmedeh | the boards with the mali 400 | 02:11 |
| lilstevie | ah yeah | 02:11 |
| lilstevie | they are like 300-400 IIRC | 02:11 |
| cdahmedeh | yeah something like that | 02:12 |
| lilstevie | tegra devel boards are terrible | 02:12 |
| lilstevie | that said, the ones from nvidia even have an lcd | 02:13 |
| lilstevie | but they are $1000 | 02:13 |
| cdahmedeh | crazy | 02:13 |
| cdahmedeh | though tegra sounds like a great platform | 02:13 |
| lilstevie | trimslice is a tegra2 board and that will set you between 200-400 | 02:13 |
| lilstevie | tegra isn't that great | 02:14 |
| cdahmedeh | it's a bit slower than the sgx 540 isn't it? | 02:16 |
| cdahmedeh | though i don't think i will need that much gpu to play with | 02:19 |
| cdahmedeh | there are no arm devices with regular open gl support right? | 02:21 |
| lilstevie | correct | 02:22 |
| cdahmedeh | i think i'm going to go with a pandaboard | 02:25 |
| cdahmedeh | the connectivity options are great, has two hdmi/dvi outputs | 02:26 |
| lilstevie | cool | 02:26 |
| lilstevie | yeah | 02:26 |
| lilstevie | and is supported by canonical | 02:26 |
| cdahmedeh | perfect | 02:26 |
| cdahmedeh | so that thing obviously needs a power supply which it does not come with | 02:27 |
| cdahmedeh | anything other accessories that i miss? | 02:27 |
| lilstevie | no idea, I don't have one | 02:28 |
| cdahmedeh | well thanks alot for your help lilstevie | 02:30 |
| twb | 13:01 <cdahmedeh> i don't plan to run ubuntu specifically, debian would do | 02:34 |
| twb | cdahmedeh: debian's new armhf arch is armv6 | 02:34 |
| twb | *armv7 | 02:34 |
| twb | So if you want to run Debian I would suggest still aiming for armv7 | 02:34 |
| cdahmedeh | i'll take that into account then | 02:35 |
| twb | IME the most important thing is to buy a device that lots of other hackers use | 02:35 |
| cdahmedeh | and the pandaboard/beagleboard are the most popular ones right now. correct? | 02:36 |
| twb | Like back in the day, you would try to get a thinkpad or a powerbook -- not so much because they were good (though they were), but because they had a huge linux userbase and people actually made sure they worked | 02:36 |
| cdahmedeh | i noticed that | 02:36 |
| lilstevie | yes panda would be the target | 02:37 |
| lilstevie | most of the guys have pandas or beagles AFAIK | 02:38 |
| cdahmedeh | ok | 02:39 |
| twb | What's a panda cost, ballpark? | 02:40 |
| cdahmedeh | listed price is 174$ i think | 02:40 |
| cdahmedeh | sounds about right to me | 02:40 |
| cdahmedeh | plus you need to buy power supply | 02:41 |
| twb | US$? | 02:41 |
| cdahmedeh | shipping and taxes | 02:41 |
| cdahmedeh | yes | 02:41 |
| twb | Righto | 02:41 |
| cdahmedeh | like i was toying around with qemu, it's awesome, but there's no way to emulate opengles | 02:42 |
| twb | lilstevie: currently when I just naively open up a GTK2 browser and try to do multi-finger scroll on the touchpad, it doesn't work. What bit(s) aren't configured for that yet: the touchscreen driver, GTK, the browser, ... ? | 02:42 |
| cdahmedeh | don't you need to configure x somehow? | 02:43 |
| cdahmedeh | maybe create/edit /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-synaptics.conf | 02:43 |
| twb | I didn't think tf101 was using synaptics hw | 02:44 |
| cdahmedeh | oh | 02:44 |
| twb | Hm, pandaboard is listed as using powervr GPU -- I thought they only worked with shitty binary drivers | 02:45 |
| cdahmedeh | isn't that the case for any 3d accelerated arm gpu? | 02:46 |
| GrueMaster | True for most any decent 3D gpu, regardless of arch. | 02:46 |
| cdahmedeh | the only completely usable 3d open source drivers are on intel as far as i know | 02:47 |
| cdahmedeh | and maybe some older ati chips | 02:47 |
| twb | cdahmedeh: and matrox! | 02:47 |
| cdahmedeh | i did not know that | 02:47 |
| twb | That was probably technically 3d | 02:47 |
| twb | cdahmedeh: they stopped making cards in like 1992 | 02:48 |
| cdahmedeh | 1492* | 02:48 |
| cdahmedeh | (-: | 02:48 |
| lilstevie | twb: all arm devices use "shitty binary drivers" | 02:48 |
| twb | :-( | 02:48 |
| lilstevie | and same as x86 | 02:48 |
| GrueMaster | Intel may make open source 3D drivers, but they still suck. | 02:49 |
| cdahmedeh | they're acceptable | 02:49 |
| twb | Well, AMD x86 yes, intel boards are pretty good | 02:49 |
| twb | as far as free-ness goes that is | 02:49 |
| GrueMaster | Depends on what you are doing. | 02:49 |
| cdahmedeh | it tends to die off when you use the more obscure opengl stuff | 02:49 |
| lilstevie | nvidia don't /really/ FOSS their drivers either | 02:49 |
| lilstevie | :p | 02:49 |
| twb | Except for poulsbo and iwl | 02:49 |
| cdahmedeh | yeah thoses are still closed | 02:50 |
| cdahmedeh | iwl isn't that great | 02:50 |
| twb | iwl blows | 02:50 |
| twb | it has closed firmware blobs | 02:50 |
| cdahmedeh | i have the strangest with iwl | 02:50 |
| twb | ath9k wtf | 02:50 |
| lilstevie | but twb as for the touchpad, it is not working properly | 02:50 |
| twb | *ftw | 02:50 |
| cdahmedeh | i have to get myself an ath9k | 02:50 |
| GrueMaster | Poulsbo is an odd case. It is produced by Intel, but it is PowerVR IP (so Intel doesn't have access to TRM). | 02:50 |
| twb | lilstevie: driver issue? | 02:50 |
| lilstevie | multitouch is pretty much disabled in the touchpad driver :) | 02:50 |
| twb | GrueMaster: that's what caused my original question | 02:50 |
| lilstevie | the only thing you can do with it is two finger tap | 02:51 |
| twb | lilstevie: er, I'm talking about the touchscreen, not the thing next to the keyboard | 02:51 |
| lilstevie | oh | 02:51 |
| lilstevie | well you said on the touchpad | 02:51 |
| twb | Sorry braino | 02:51 |
| GrueMaster | It is worse than not having PowerVR drivers. Intel can't develop Poulsbo in-house due to competitive reasons. | 02:51 |
| cdahmedeh | does poulsbo work at all under linux? | 02:52 |
| GrueMaster | At least Ti has the TRM to develop decent drivers, even if PowerVR won't let them open source the drivers. | 02:52 |
| twb | GrueMaster: pity, because atom Z has hardware VT; whereas the other atoms dont | 02:52 |
| GrueMaster | Poulsbo used to. | 02:52 |
| twb | cdahmedeh: yes using a crappy old kernel that supports the powervr gpu, or using vesa | 02:52 |
| GrueMaster | twb: I know. I used to contract for Intel during the Moblin 1.0 days. | 02:53 |
| cdahmedeh | twb: sounds wonderful! | 02:53 |
| GrueMaster | Flash worked better running in XP in a VT on Linux than native at the time. | 02:53 |
| twb | Stupid intel "vt is a price diffentiator" | 02:53 |
| lilstevie | twb: I would guess the browser is not configured with utouch/gies | 02:53 |
| lilstevie | geis* | 02:53 |
| twb | GrueMaster: eh, who the fuck cares about flash | 02:53 |
| twb | lilstevie: yeah, definitely not :-) | 02:54 |
| GrueMaster | Heh. Well, Moblin 1.0 desktop was flash based, so.... | 02:54 |
| cdahmedeh | wait wait.. FLASH? | 02:54 |
| twb | lilstevie: which will also be why e.g. xterm can't use two-finger scroll | 02:54 |
| GrueMaster | yep. | 02:54 |
| cdahmedeh | i heard nothing then | 02:54 |
| twb | GrueMaster: urk; I didn't need to hear that :-/ | 02:54 |
| GrueMaster | It was designed as a demo, then just kept going forward. | 02:55 |
| cdahmedeh | oh great | 02:55 |
| cdahmedeh | product manager type sees demo "LOOKS GREAT SHIP IT TOMORROW!!!!" | 02:55 |
| cdahmedeh | dev: "uhh.. sir.. this is flash.. like this is a demo" | 02:55 |
| GrueMaster | The *real* fun was testing Vista on the poulsbo. Don't get me started. | 02:56 |
| lilstevie | twb: look up geis rules, you can probably add one | 02:56 |
| cdahmedeh | GrueMaster, why does it suck too under windows? | 02:56 |
| GrueMaster | Yea, I had engineers complaining that the moblin desktop would consume 50% cpu on login and stay there. | 02:56 |
| GrueMaster | cdahmedeh: Name ANYTHING that didn't suck under Vista. | 02:57 |
| twb | Need to drop flash and bring back hypercard | 02:57 |
| cdahmedeh | GrueMaster, uhm.. i'm going to need a few centuries to find something | 02:57 |
| twb | GrueMaster: ntfs hard links! | 02:57 |
| twb | IIRC ntoskrnl 6.0 added those | 02:57 |
| * GrueMaster would trade couchDB for zoomracks. | 02:57 | |
| * GrueMaster wonders how many people are now looking up zoomracks in wikipedia. | 02:58 | |
| twb | lilstevie: looks like libgeis got uninstalled when I threw out gnome, and it doesn't seem to be in the normal repos | 02:59 |
| twb | Oh, libutouch-geis, there it is | 02:59 |
| twb | Looks like geis is mainly used by unity, eog and evince. | 03:00 |
| * GrueMaster is EOD. Later. | 03:01 | |
| twb | explosive ordinance disposal? | 03:01 |
| GrueMaster | Well, that too. :P | 03:01 |
| GrueMaster | Although I wouldn't call it "ordinance". | 03:02 |
| twb | Oops | 03:02 |
| lilstevie | twb: that is correct, you need to add rules for each program | 03:10 |
| twb | Does that work for arbitrary programs or only ones that are already linked to libutouch? | 03:12 |
| twb | Are there example rules somewhere I can look at? | 03:12 |
| lilstevie | look on the ubuntu wiki | 03:14 |
| lilstevie | there is something there somewhere | 03:14 |
| twb | Okey dokey | 03:14 |
| twb | It looks like ginn is the wrapper that deals with "legacy" (read: non-libutouch) X applications | 03:18 |
| twb | And utouch is an ubuntuism so it stands to reason other distros are doing something else... | 03:20 |
| twb | Oh, and apparently ginn isn't needed for "toolkits", which I think means GTK2 and Qt3 | 03:21 |
| TheMuso | UTouch doesn't necessarily mean Ubuntu. | 03:22 |
| lilstevie | also I don't know any other distro that does touch | 03:25 |
| lilstevie | evdev still only supports single touch on most distros | 03:26 |
| twb | OK, it goes like this: evdev/synaptics > mt > utouch > grail > geis > unity/ginn/touchegg | 03:28 |
| lilstevie | evdev is the xserver module | 03:30 |
| twb | Right | 03:30 |
| lilstevie | and utouch/grail are the dm agents | 03:31 |
| twb | ">" meaning "is used by" | 03:31 |
| twb | DM as in display manager? | 03:31 |
| lilstevie | yes | 03:31 |
| twb | But I'm not even using a display manager | 03:31 |
| twb | I just do "xinit /usr/bin/appliction" | 03:31 |
| twb | *application | 03:32 |
| === ericm|ubuntu is now known as ericm-afk | ||
| === Jack87|Away is now known as Jack87 | ||
| === Jack87 is now known as Jack87|Away | ||
| === ericm-afk is now known as ericm|ubuntu | ||
| * ogra wonders why multivers is missing in his sources.list on fresh installs | 11:52 | |
| ogra | *multiverse | 11:52 |
| ogra | funnily all other components are there | 11:52 |
| === doko_ is now known as doko | ||
| === fgau_ is now known as fgau | ||
| === utlemming_afk is now known as utlemming | ||
| === jhobbs_ is now known as jhobbs | ||
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