[01:45] hello friends! any recommendations for an arm development board? it needs to have hdmi output [01:46] ideally it should be easy to find (ie, don't have to wait 5 months for order), and not more than 150$ [01:46] development as in for a hobby, or with an eye to building something production later on? [01:46] hobby [01:47] Dunno about the HDMI, the most important thing is to make sure it's arm v7 [01:47] why is that so? [01:47] ubuntu doesn't support earlier versions of the architecture [01:48] alright [01:48] Which basically means not sheeva/guruplug, everything else is new enough design [01:48] ok [01:48] A lot of people here seem to be using beagle/panda boards [01:49] (I'm only here because my netbook is arm, so don't trust anything I say particularly :p) [01:49] hmm.. arm netbook would be an interesting alternative [01:51] the raspberry pi seems interesting, but i have a feeling they're going to be really hard to get at first [01:51] that thing is going to sell like hotcakes [02:01] raspberry pi is not armv7 [02:01] i don't plan to run ubuntu specifically, debian would do [02:02] ok, well debian will [02:02] it's armv6 isn't it? [02:02] raspberry pi? [02:02] debian is armv4t IIRC [02:03] and yes, the pi is armv6 [02:03] thanks, you answered my next question (-: [02:03] anyways, do you have any recommendations for an arm development board? [02:03] but really these armv7 devices are faster [02:03] beagle/panda [02:03] for dev boards [02:03] ok [02:04] beagle is omap3 panda is omap4 [02:04] so probably over all I would say go the panda [02:04] sounds neat [02:05] * cdahmedeh looks at ship date [02:05] oh wow [02:06] jan 18 2012 [02:06] (-: [02:06] heh [02:06] you can get the panda from digikey [02:06] that's where i checked [02:06] heh [02:06] sounds like these arm boards are tricky to find aren't they? [02:06] they can be [02:07] they aren't the most common things [02:07] I have the trimslice myself [02:07] but that is a fair bit more than your budget [02:07] panda is only just over it [02:07] yes exactly [02:07] the platforms are very interesting [02:08] the mali 400 sounds really nice, but so far the boards i am finding are expensive [02:08] yeah [02:09] well the mali-400 really are only in the exynos dev boards [02:09] and samsung devel boards are really expensive [02:10] wow, very expensive [02:10] wow these cost more than i thought they would [02:10] cdahmedeh: which do? [02:10] exynos, or trimslice [02:10] or... [02:11] the boards with the mali 400 [02:11] ah yeah [02:11] they are like 300-400 IIRC [02:12] yeah something like that [02:12] tegra devel boards are terrible [02:13] that said, the ones from nvidia even have an lcd [02:13] but they are $1000 [02:13] crazy [02:13] though tegra sounds like a great platform [02:13] trimslice is a tegra2 board and that will set you between 200-400 [02:14] tegra isn't that great [02:16] it's a bit slower than the sgx 540 isn't it? [02:19] though i don't think i will need that much gpu to play with [02:21] there are no arm devices with regular open gl support right? [02:22] correct [02:25] i think i'm going to go with a pandaboard [02:26] the connectivity options are great, has two hdmi/dvi outputs [02:26] cool [02:26] yeah [02:26] and is supported by canonical [02:26] perfect [02:27] so that thing obviously needs a power supply which it does not come with [02:27] anything other accessories that i miss? [02:28] no idea, I don't have one [02:30] well thanks alot for your help lilstevie [02:34] 13:01 i don't plan to run ubuntu specifically, debian would do [02:34] cdahmedeh: debian's new armhf arch is armv6 [02:34] *armv7 [02:34] So if you want to run Debian I would suggest still aiming for armv7 [02:35] i'll take that into account then [02:35] IME the most important thing is to buy a device that lots of other hackers use [02:36] and the pandaboard/beagleboard are the most popular ones right now. correct? [02:36] Like back in the day, you would try to get a thinkpad or a powerbook -- not so much because they were good (though they were), but because they had a huge linux userbase and people actually made sure they worked [02:36] i noticed that [02:37] yes panda would be the target [02:38] most of the guys have pandas or beagles AFAIK [02:39] ok [02:40] What's a panda cost, ballpark? [02:40] listed price is 174$ i think [02:40] sounds about right to me [02:41] plus you need to buy power supply [02:41] US$? [02:41] shipping and taxes [02:41] yes [02:41] Righto [02:42] like i was toying around with qemu, it's awesome, but there's no way to emulate opengles [02:42] lilstevie: currently when I just naively open up a GTK2 browser and try to do multi-finger scroll on the touchpad, it doesn't work. What bit(s) aren't configured for that yet: the touchscreen driver, GTK, the browser, ... ? [02:43] don't you need to configure x somehow? [02:43] maybe create/edit /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-synaptics.conf [02:44] I didn't think tf101 was using synaptics hw [02:44] oh [02:45] Hm, pandaboard is listed as using powervr GPU -- I thought they only worked with shitty binary drivers [02:46] isn't that the case for any 3d accelerated arm gpu? [02:46] True for most any decent 3D gpu, regardless of arch. [02:47] the only completely usable 3d open source drivers are on intel as far as i know [02:47] and maybe some older ati chips [02:47] cdahmedeh: and matrox! [02:47] i did not know that [02:47] That was probably technically 3d [02:48] cdahmedeh: they stopped making cards in like 1992 [02:48] 1492* [02:48] (-: [02:48] twb: all arm devices use "shitty binary drivers" [02:48] :-( [02:48] and same as x86 [02:49] Intel may make open source 3D drivers, but they still suck. [02:49] they're acceptable [02:49] Well, AMD x86 yes, intel boards are pretty good [02:49] as far as free-ness goes that is [02:49] Depends on what you are doing. [02:49] it tends to die off when you use the more obscure opengl stuff [02:49] nvidia don't /really/ FOSS their drivers either [02:49] :p [02:49] Except for poulsbo and iwl [02:50] yeah thoses are still closed [02:50] iwl isn't that great [02:50] iwl blows [02:50] it has closed firmware blobs [02:50] i have the strangest with iwl [02:50] ath9k wtf [02:50] but twb as for the touchpad, it is not working properly [02:50] *ftw [02:50] i have to get myself an ath9k [02:50] Poulsbo is an odd case. It is produced by Intel, but it is PowerVR IP (so Intel doesn't have access to TRM). [02:50] lilstevie: driver issue? [02:50] multitouch is pretty much disabled in the touchpad driver :) [02:50] GrueMaster: that's what caused my original question [02:51] the only thing you can do with it is two finger tap [02:51] lilstevie: er, I'm talking about the touchscreen, not the thing next to the keyboard [02:51] oh [02:51] well you said on the touchpad [02:51] Sorry braino [02:51] It is worse than not having PowerVR drivers. Intel can't develop Poulsbo in-house due to competitive reasons. [02:52] does poulsbo work at all under linux? [02:52] At least Ti has the TRM to develop decent drivers, even if PowerVR won't let them open source the drivers. [02:52] GrueMaster: pity, because atom Z has hardware VT; whereas the other atoms dont [02:52] Poulsbo used to. [02:52] cdahmedeh: yes using a crappy old kernel that supports the powervr gpu, or using vesa [02:53] twb: I know. I used to contract for Intel during the Moblin 1.0 days. [02:53] twb: sounds wonderful! [02:53] Flash worked better running in XP in a VT on Linux than native at the time. [02:53] Stupid intel "vt is a price diffentiator" [02:53] twb: I would guess the browser is not configured with utouch/gies [02:53] geis* [02:53] GrueMaster: eh, who the fuck cares about flash [02:54] lilstevie: yeah, definitely not :-) [02:54] Heh. Well, Moblin 1.0 desktop was flash based, so.... [02:54] wait wait.. FLASH? [02:54] lilstevie: which will also be why e.g. xterm can't use two-finger scroll [02:54] yep. [02:54] i heard nothing then [02:54] GrueMaster: urk; I didn't need to hear that :-/ [02:55] It was designed as a demo, then just kept going forward. [02:55] oh great [02:55] product manager type sees demo "LOOKS GREAT SHIP IT TOMORROW!!!!" [02:55] dev: "uhh.. sir.. this is flash.. like this is a demo" [02:56] The *real* fun was testing Vista on the poulsbo. Don't get me started. [02:56] twb: look up geis rules, you can probably add one [02:56] GrueMaster, why does it suck too under windows? [02:56] Yea, I had engineers complaining that the moblin desktop would consume 50% cpu on login and stay there. [02:57] cdahmedeh: Name ANYTHING that didn't suck under Vista. [02:57] Need to drop flash and bring back hypercard [02:57] GrueMaster, uhm.. i'm going to need a few centuries to find something [02:57] GrueMaster: ntfs hard links! [02:57] IIRC ntoskrnl 6.0 added those [02:57] * GrueMaster would trade couchDB for zoomracks. [02:58] * GrueMaster wonders how many people are now looking up zoomracks in wikipedia. [02:59] lilstevie: looks like libgeis got uninstalled when I threw out gnome, and it doesn't seem to be in the normal repos [02:59] Oh, libutouch-geis, there it is [03:00] Looks like geis is mainly used by unity, eog and evince. [03:01] * GrueMaster is EOD. Later. [03:01] explosive ordinance disposal? [03:01] Well, that too. :P [03:02] Although I wouldn't call it "ordinance". [03:02] Oops [03:10] twb: that is correct, you need to add rules for each program [03:12] Does that work for arbitrary programs or only ones that are already linked to libutouch? [03:12] Are there example rules somewhere I can look at? [03:14] look on the ubuntu wiki [03:14] there is something there somewhere [03:14] Okey dokey [03:18] It looks like ginn is the wrapper that deals with "legacy" (read: non-libutouch) X applications [03:20] And utouch is an ubuntuism so it stands to reason other distros are doing something else... [03:21] Oh, and apparently ginn isn't needed for "toolkits", which I think means GTK2 and Qt3 [03:22] UTouch doesn't necessarily mean Ubuntu. [03:25] also I don't know any other distro that does touch [03:26] evdev still only supports single touch on most distros [03:28] OK, it goes like this: evdev/synaptics > mt > utouch > grail > geis > unity/ginn/touchegg [03:30] evdev is the xserver module [03:30] Right [03:31] and utouch/grail are the dm agents [03:31] ">" meaning "is used by" [03:31] DM as in display manager? [03:31] yes [03:31] But I'm not even using a display manager [03:31] I just do "xinit /usr/bin/appliction" [03:32] *application === ericm|ubuntu is now known as ericm-afk === Jack87|Away is now known as Jack87 === Jack87 is now known as Jack87|Away === ericm-afk is now known as ericm|ubuntu [11:52] * ogra wonders why multivers is missing in his sources.list on fresh installs [11:52] *multiverse [11:52] funnily all other components are there === doko_ is now known as doko === fgau_ is now known as fgau === utlemming_afk is now known as utlemming === jhobbs_ is now known as jhobbs