[01:23] <snap-l> Evening
[01:24] <_stink_> yo
[02:37] <jrwren> how do you all backup your systems? I nearly apt-get installed dump, but I checked the "ubuntu way" to find server guide recommends good old tar.
[02:39] <_stink_> i use rdiff-backup.
[02:48] <jrwren> so, that is great for file backup.
[02:48] <jrwren> but I was looking more for system.
[02:48] <jrwren> I'd like to be able to just restore to new disk and go.
[02:48] <jrwren> but I guess requiring /boot makes that difficult.
[02:49] <jrwren> also,I'm worried about extended attributes and regular fs attributes.
[02:50] <jrwren> e.g., I don't think tar, or rsync will capture the fact that i ran chattr on some files.
[02:50] <jrwren> I lose that information in the backup
[03:28] <snap-l> rsync captures attributes
[03:33] <jrwren> holy crap, using tar with xz makes things cpubound again. its like 1996 all over again.
[03:33] <jrwren> snap-l: really? how?
[03:33] <jrwren> snap-l: how does it write attributes?
[03:33] <jrwren> snap-l: I'm talking linux attributes and EA
[03:34] <brousch> handbrake is not available for ubuntu 11.10?
[03:34] <brousch> what are we using to rip DVDs now?
[03:34] <jrwren> yeah, -X looks like it might work.  now I just have to figure out if I want to use that or tar with xz :)
[03:51] <brousch> ah, found nightly snapshots of handbrake for oneiric
[04:03] <snap-l> jrwren: EA = ??
[04:03] <snap-l> Extended Attributes?
[04:04] <snap-l> jrwren: I highly recommend rsync if you want live backups
[04:04] <snap-l> and tar if you want backups that degrade over time. ;)
[04:26] <jrwren> yes, extended attributes.
[04:26] <jrwren> i want highly compressed backups.
[04:27] <jrwren> gonna be hard to beat a xz compressed tar
[04:27] <snap-l> Save for that's two points of failure
[04:27] <jrwren> huh?
[04:27] <snap-l> gzip files, if they get corrupted, are useless
[04:28] <snap-l> and tar has a hard time recovering from bad blocks
[04:28] <jrwren> good points.
[04:28] <snap-l> bzip2 has a recovery mode
[04:28] <jrwren> but zomg xz LZMA !
[04:28] <jrwren> so much compression!
[04:28] <snap-l> I'd recommend spending an extra $100 and foregoing compression
[04:29] <jrwren> k, now assume you can't.
[04:29] <snap-l> How much capacity is the destination volume?
[04:29] <snap-l> and how many backups are we storing?
[04:30] <jrwren> dest has 500G free
[04:30] <jrwren> i don't know how many backups i'm storing. I don't know how large a backup is, yet.
[04:30] <jrwren> I'll guestimate 4G ?  I hope?
[04:31] <snap-l> 4G? Are you backing up an Eee?
[04:31] <jrwren> no, my linux system, but just system, no user files.
[04:32] <jrwren> oh, its past 6G... so maybe 10G ?
[04:32] <snap-l> etc is 18M on my machine
[04:32] <snap-l> backing up /usr is a bit pointless without /var
[04:33] <jrwren> i want /boot too.
[04:33] <jrwren> i should be able to boot a live CD and restore after configuring partitions
[04:33] <snap-l> And then run GRUB to restore the boot record?
[04:34] <jrwren> yup
[04:34] <snap-l> How quickly do you want to turn around this backup?
[04:35] <jrwren> few hr RTO would be fine.
[04:36] <snap-l> I guess my thought would be to just do a reinstall, and have a script to install the packages
[04:36] <snap-l> 10 minutes for re-install, network or local repo for the packages.
[04:36] <snap-l> save stuff like /var for the changing fiddly bits for mysql, postgresql, etc.
[04:36] <jrwren> i'd loose a lot of config
[04:36] <snap-l> and call it a day.
[04:36] <snap-l> so back up /etc
[04:37] <jrwren> unsatisfactory
[04:37] <snap-l> even better, make links from /etc/ to the files in userspace
[04:38] <snap-l> Have you ver restored a machine from backup like this? :)
[04:38] <jrwren> its been 10yrs, but I did then, yes.
[04:39] <snap-l> and did it work right afterwards? :)
[04:39] <jrwren> of course.
[04:39] <jrwren> i said yes.
[04:39] <snap-l>  /dev worked OK? /proc worked OK?
[04:43] <jrwren>  /proc doesn't back, you should know that.
[04:43] <jrwren> nor /sys
[04:43] <snap-l> I know. :)
[04:43] <jrwren> but /dev worked.
[04:44] <jrwren> hrm. I should probably unmount devfs and back that /dev
[12:55] <Wolfger> morning
[12:57] <brousch> happyjoyfulmorning2u
[12:59] <rick_h__> morning
[13:04] <brousch> i'm enjoying xfce again today
[13:04] <brousch> i think that makes me 2 steps removed from awesome: xubuntu -> lubuntu -> awesome
[13:07] <rick_h__> brousch: keep an eye on the end goal :)
[13:20] <brousch> retirement?
[13:23] <rick_h__> awesome
[13:29] <snap-l> g'morning
[13:58] <Wolfger> brousch is too happyjoyful today
[13:59] <brousch> don't worry. jjesse's apple blocking htc post has me unhappy now
[13:59] <jjesse> yeah that annoyed me
[13:59] <jjesse> i blame apple
[13:59] <jjesse> those bastards
[14:00] <snap-l> Yeah, that's not cool on Apple's part
[14:00] <Wolfger> Haven't read that, but I am prepared to not be surprised...
[14:01] <brousch> is it too early to talk about desecrating steve jobs' corpse?
[14:01] <ColonelPanic001> no such thing
[15:28] <brousch> interesting. i just glanced at a laptop i'm installing ubuntu 11.10 server onto and it was installing python-twisted-core. i wonder what they use that for in a regular old server?
[15:30] <snap-l> I think you can check the deps via dpkg.
[15:30] <snap-l> Oh man, Webcast has a SHITTY saxaphone version of Hey Jude.
[15:31] <ColonelPanic001> I'd like to form an angry mob to torture and kill anyone that choses to use silverlight. Anyone care to join me?
[15:31] <snap-l> ColonelPanic001: I'm in
[15:31] <snap-l> I have some Tiki torches
[15:31] <Scott_firebeta> netflix first?
[15:31] <ColonelPanic001> fucking blackboard site here uses it
[15:31] <ColonelPanic001> I had to reboot my desktop, first time in a couple months
[15:31] <ColonelPanic001> works *fine* on windows though, of course
[15:31] <ColonelPanic001> IF ONLY I HAD WINDOWS ON MY LAPTOP
[15:31] <ColonelPanic001> idiots.
[15:32] <ColonelPanic001> because we have no other way to play video on a computer. We need *another* shitty plugin to screw everything up. GREAT CHOICE GUYS
[15:41] <brousch> KILLKILLKILL
[15:43] <ColonelPanic001> YES
[15:59] <snap-l> Apparently 1-800-flowers uses the same definition of "unsubscribe" that Techweb uses.
[16:20] <rick_h__> ah, the great season for deliveries https://plus.google.com/103531985115858995929/posts/bgUEMyWvEdf
[16:23] <brousch> i'm about to try xubuntu on a p3 with 128MB of RAM. what are the odds it will work?
[16:23] <_stink_> i bet it works... i used to run dapper with GNOME on a machine with those exact specs
[16:23] <_stink_> it was slow.
[16:24] <snap-l> rick_h__: Lovely.
[16:25] <brousch> i had to use the server install. the regular xubuntu desktop install thrashed for an hour without going anywhere
[16:26] <_stink_> hah
[16:32] <CrusaderAD> what are you guys thoughts on Unity?
[16:32] <brousch> good in some ways, annoying in others
[16:33] <snap-l> CrusaderAD: It's a topic that is more likely than not to create flamebait
[16:33] <snap-l> I personally like Unity.
[16:34] <_stink_> never tried it.
[16:34] <brousch> gnome shell is also good in some ways, annoying in others
[16:34] <brousch> as is kde
[16:34] <CrusaderAD> I like it too, but it seems a little unfriendly across different machines... little bugs seem to pop up here and there, I switched to Xubuntu till 12.04
[16:38] <brousch> CrusaderAD: that's what i'm on right now
[16:38] <brousch> but i have tried them all over the last couple of months
[16:39] <CrusaderAD> brousch: I love it so far, been on it for about a month at work and home... simple and fast
[16:39] <brousch> yes, very quick
[16:40] <brousch> a few tweaks made it look just like gnome2
[16:42] <ColonelPanic001> my favorite tweak for Unity is installing KDE
[16:42] <CrusaderAD> I was surprised to see a "dock" panel implemented, my first impression was, "this is xfce, right?"
[16:43] <CrusaderAD> I left it there tho... works great
[16:44] <brousch> i like my workspaces and window list down there
[16:44] <brousch> launcher button in the upper left
[16:45] <brousch> buttons
[16:47] <CrusaderAD> nice
[16:47] <brousch> the greybird theme is very nice
[16:48] <CrusaderAD> it is, I tried a few others, but the default is just the best imo... have you noticed xfce-look.org going down lately?
[16:49] <CrusaderAD> that website seems hit or miss... they must be having problems
[16:49] <_stink_> is there a greybeard theme too?
[16:50] <brousch> i have not visited it
[16:50] <snap-l> http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taouu/html/graphics/vt100.jpg <- Sexxxy.
[16:51] <brousch> looks like a toaster oven
[16:52] <CrusaderAD> or a terminal from 2011: A Space Odyssey
[16:55] <ColonelPanic001> hah
[16:55] <ColonelPanic001> it'd be gret to put modern parts in there
[16:55] <ColonelPanic001> run vim, etc
[17:22] <brousch> snap-l: why are you in the dog house?
[17:26] <snap-l> I said that JoDee was "well trained" because when we were at the music store, she mentioned that Henry Rollins was performing at the Michigan Theater in Ann Arbor
[17:27] <snap-l> Apparently that's regarded as a "bad move"
[17:31] <brousch> did you pat her on the head?
[17:31] <snap-l> no, but that was bad enough
[17:34] <snap-l> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/IBM_5100_-_MfK_Bern.jpg <- Wow, talk about a wonky keyboard
[17:34] <snap-l> There's no quote key.
[17:54] <brousch> ran into this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/+bug/833619
[17:55] <brousch> tried to apport-collect info for it and i had to login to launchpad via w3m
[17:55] <brousch> that didn't go well
[17:55] <rick_h__> <3 w3m
[17:55] <rick_h__> why did it not go well?
[17:55] <brousch> couldn't type in the fields
[17:56] <brousch> it kept jumping out of the field to the top of the page
[17:56] <brousch> i blame rick_h__ since he controls launchpad now
[17:56] <rick_h__> logical move for sure
[17:56] <rick_h__> yea, w3m has some ui/keys you need
[17:57] <rick_h__> it's not quite like a normal web browser
[17:57] <brousch> i didn't see any help there. i tabbed to the field and started typing
[17:58] <rick_h__>  brousch right, I think you have to hit enter to "focus" the field to be able to type in it
[17:58] <brousch> i should have tried vim-like modes i guess
[17:58] <rick_h__> once you started typing it was catching key-bindings for things like moving around
[17:58] <rick_h__> I *think* been a little bit since I filled out a form with it
[17:58] <brousch> i'll try again
[17:59] <rick_h__> I'm loading it up to remind myself, sec. I used to use it as my html email viewer in mutt but finally broke down and open it in chrome now
[18:01] <rick_h__> brousch: yea, move down to the field, hit enter, and at the bottom should be a "TEXT" you type into
[18:01] <rick_h__> you can move around with hjkl like in vim
[18:01] <brousch> i think it worked
[18:01] <rick_h__> cool
[18:01] <rick_h__> it's actually a pretty good text based web browser
[18:02] <rick_h__> but so damn many emails are images and are starting to only send html only
[18:02] <brousch> damnit. it rejected the report due to the bug being closed
[18:02]  * rick_h__ goes off to grumble in the corner with the plain text or die peeps
[18:02] <brousch> liars!
[18:02] <rick_h__> brousch: but the bug is labeled fix released
[18:04] <rick_h__> crap he's here...run!!!
[18:04] <brousch> sure it is
[18:04] <brousch> i guess the fix is to install gdm
[18:04] <snap-l> rick_h__: can't get rid of me that easily. ;)
[18:06] <rick_h__> I can try!
[18:09] <brousch> damn this thing is slow
[18:09] <brousch> hopefully i have some of this ancient ram at home
[18:10] <rick_h__> brousch: what is it?
[18:10] <brousch> pc133 sdram
[18:10] <rick_h__> crap, nvm...I threw it out after forgetting to give it to snap-l 3 times
[18:10] <brousch> http://www.crucial.com/upgrade/HP-memory/Presario+1700+Series/Presario+1700T+Series+(133MHz)-upgrades.html
[18:10] <rick_h__> brousch: yea, I had some and finally threw it out. Sorry, forgot
[18:10] <brousch> no problem
[18:10] <brousch> this one of those "see if you can resurrect it using linux" things
[18:11] <rick_h__> yea, usually not worth the power bill these days :/
[18:11] <rick_h__> Blazeix: hey, how's your battery life treating you? Did you get the extended or accessories yet?
[18:12] <brousch> well it's not for me, it's for a friend
[18:12] <brousch> success could lead to more linux usage
[18:12] <rick_h__> brousch: ah, gotcha
[19:17] <Blazeix> rick_h__: i'm pretty happy with battery usage. I had a pretty heavy day yesterday of navigation, web browsing, and gaming, and it still lasted until about 2am this morning.
[19:18] <rick_h__> Blazeix: ugh, ok. 4g off?
[19:18] <Blazeix> off and on. I was in lansing for about 6 hours, and they didn't have 4g where I was.
[19:19] <Blazeix> no extended battery
[19:19] <rick_h__> yea, I can't find it on the website
[19:19] <rick_h__> and the desk dock charger isn't anywhere to be seen :(
[19:19] <Blazeix> yeah, i'm waiting for the desk dock too
[19:19] <rick_h__> I think because I've got low reception in my basement office I crank through more battery than some perhaps
[19:20] <rick_h__> reception is a little lower than in Dinc I think
[19:20] <rick_h__> ok, well curious. <3 the thing, but in my Dinc I had that giant battery pack that was 2x the stock and could use the @#$# out of it for 2 days straight
[19:22] <rick_h__> http://www.amazon.com/Altec-Lansing-iM227-Orbit-Speaker/dp/B004CYKEBK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1324408925&sr=8-1 fixed my speaker problem pretty well
[19:23] <brousch> i hereby declare that 128MB is not enough RAM for xubuntu
[19:23] <rick_h__> lol
[19:24] <brousch> but, i think i found 2x256MB at home
[19:35] <snap-l> brousch: I think you'll find 512 is barely enough
[19:36] <snap-l> rick_h__: What speaker problem does this solve? The ugly speaker problem?
[19:36] <brousch> does it have bass?
[19:37] <snap-l> I think it barely has treble
[19:42] <snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/Altec-Lansing-BXR1221-Speaker-System/dp/B0025VKUQ6/ref=sr_1_13?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1324409951&sr=1-13
[19:43] <brousch> darn, it rejected my ram. gonna bump it up to 256MB and see if it's usable
[19:45] <brousch> ok, gdm came up without thrashing
[19:56] <snap-l> OK, I'm sure this is in the "who cares" bucket, but damn: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/12/20/144023131/report-ohio-state-football-team-banned-from-postseason-play-next-year?ft=1&f=1001&sc=tw&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
[20:09] <jjesse> yay
[20:12] <brousch> nice, it's only use 135MB of RAM
[20:12] <brousch> that leaves just about enough for a web browser
[20:16] <brousch> using 119MB with nothing open
[20:35] <snap-l> Anybody here read Read Write Web?
[20:35] <ColonelPanic001> no
[20:36] <snap-l> I'm very close to stopping myslf
[20:36] <snap-l> seems like a lot of sponsored content
[20:36] <ColonelPanic001> I've never seen it
[20:36] <snap-l> started reading it because JZB worked on the sire
[20:36] <snap-l> site
[20:36] <ColonelPanic001> JZB sired it
[20:37] <snap-l> Heh
[20:37] <snap-l> not entirely.
[20:37] <ColonelPanic001> I don't know who JZB is
[20:37] <ColonelPanic001> :\
[20:37] <snap-l> Joe Brockmeier
[20:37] <snap-l> Zonker
[20:37] <ColonelPanic001> ah
[20:37] <ColonelPanic001> I don't know who that is
[20:37] <snap-l> I have no cure for you.
[20:38] <rick_h__> snap-l: the phone speaker is very quiet
[20:38] <ColonelPanic001> It's a terminal case of not knowing JZB
[21:27] <snap-l> Wow, Kobo is giving me a free book
[21:28] <snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/479/
[21:29] <snap-l> Of course, the select list has suck dreck as "Mitch Albom's The Five People You Meet in Heaven"
[21:29] <rick_h__> LOL
[21:30] <snap-l> So I bought Anthony Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential
[21:35] <snap-l> JoDee likes Anthony Bourdain, and I can live with myself.
[21:36] <snap-l> http://zavod.se/presskit/
[21:36] <snap-l> Asked this band to release their stuff under a CC license.
[21:39] <snap-l> Wow, and the list shrunk to 8 titles.
[21:39] <snap-l> Wonder if the publishers got upset.
[21:42] <snap-l> Or is it just that their site sucks
[21:42] <snap-l> thinking it's the latter.
[21:43] <brousch> there are a limited number of each ebook
[21:43] <brousch> you can only make so many copies of bits before they rot
[21:44] <snap-l> Whatever. If they want to unsell me this book, they can rot in a dumpster for all I care.
[21:45] <snap-l> It's not like I can't "fix" my Kobo so it never goes back on the network ever again.
[22:24] <snap-l> The Floor Tom came for my little niece.
[22:24] <snap-l> And it is awesome.